« Ten Percent Happier with Dan Harris

#77: Jen Kirkman, Comedian, Author

Stand-up comedian Jen Kirkman was introduced to meditation at a young age and over the years has tried a bunch of different outlets, from 'body scan' practice to mantra to meditation classes, to help her deal with panic disorder, depression, anxiety and the chaos of a hectic schedule in the entertainment industry. Kirkman, who even includes a whole bit about her practice as part of her stand-up routine, offers a very interesting take on meditation, not only as it pertains to everyday life but also as it pertains to someone trying to be creative and funny.
This is an unofficial transcript meant for reference. Accuracy is not guaranteed.
Jen Kirkland caught my attention because I saw some article about her do understand a protein in which she talked about meditation idea from the article whether she actually did meditation, but she does, and actually he's pretty face about it. Although she underplay how serious she is, as you will hear she is, if you don't know anything about her, a very successful Stanhope comedian get to specials on Netflix she's written about your books, and has a really interesting, take on meditation Natalie's appertains to sin average human life, but as it pertains to somebody who's trying to be creative in funny. I give you encouragement, for maybe see this is a ten percent. Have your podcast, I'm dead, so nervous stomach like on what, if I'm not enough of a minute, we bad people on who D meditated. it's all right. I do it every day, but I feel it it's all over the place when, when did you start sort of twenty years ago,
I went in and out, but the past like three years of undoing everyday twenty years ago. Do you wear this trend? Well, when I was in college, I had a dance teacher who taught us all kinds of things like that, and then I went to a therapist. You taught me about being mindful and then she said it was a kind of medicine mission, and so I started doing it and then I took a fear flying coarse and they talked about it. They are so yeah. That's where I learned it, but it didn't work for me at first would mean it didn't work for you. Work is ice, panic disorder! That's why I went to the therapist originally used to you actually got over guys up pretty bad and then I had only when flying and now it's sort of when it appears like when a panic attack starts in like here. We go You know I just sort of talk to it. That way it might still happen, but it's it's very quick. What would bring it on an out of the blue Would I notice now is if its, if a thought pops
I don't really know. Is there that sort of scares me always the deeper level is always like you're alive in the universe in this moment, no one can get you you're not safe. It's always in that vein. But if I'm over tired over calf innate something that will if the thought comes up and I'm not in the right physical place. That brings it on one time recently that I had one Lena haven't had one as I call in real life in years like sometimes I get the money like long flights. I mean like to Australia well a panicky, but I was on the subway I was reading and I missed my stop and it went above ground on the bridges which normally I'm fine with, but because I didn't mean to be going that far. I just got panicky liquid if it gets stuck and then I am having a panic attack and so I'll carry like a dissoluble clodagh been, and I have to decide, is bad enough for that. And if it's not gonna talk myself out of it, you know you have it can be.
Can be a stop, can put a stop on yeah. That's that's it kind of it. It's always use the if you're over Cabinet overtired, because my shrank, whose an expert in panic that the most important thing he said, and in order to protect yourself a packet access to take care of yourself, you get enough sleep exercise. that's the he uses and an animal and algae and then lay years later I brought it back up him as a move. That time he told me, I drew myself, You're stallion is acknowledged. Dude. I said thoroughbred up what I however- and I heard stallion of birth, there are bread is, of course, at the F to take care of us now is like a big, We got it right, I of course herds now, but anyway- that he had super important, because if you have you have the tendency to freak out yeah if you're in a week in state emotionally or physically you're much more prone to forget yeah anyway. I digress. I want to go back to the way. Doesn't work men
That is also what specifically you're doing. What did you dance teacher teach you to do. What did your shrink teach you to do as they will work What were they sang to doing your mind during those meditation dance. It I remember a little less. We would do yoga and things like that. She was she still here on earth with us, but she was the original production of hair. She knew Bob, the inner she was in this. sees in New York, and so she would just in the middle class kids, let's go through the park and do yoga. So sometimes we would do things like that and she would tell us we need to sit quietly sometimes so she was more just sit quietly, sometimes and then the shrink I saw said you know you need to be mindful, so you dont know what thoughts you're thinking that are causing these panic attacks there there so you're used to probably talking to yourself,
have and scaring yourself all day long and you don't even know it like a news crawl, that's always going, and so she said I want you to this exercise. Take a shower and only think about what you're doing this. Is this Rollin rather it so I had to do exercises like that. in a surly I wasn't sitting meditation. They were mindful exercises, and so asked meditation. Nonetheless gal. I don't care, Eliza later that you don't have to necessarily be sitting there, but you and then she started teaching me about mindful. breathing and then I took this fear flying course. That was about. So thing we're assigned to meditate for a half an hour every night, more of the visual meditation, but I have weird thing were my panic, always came from. My biggest fear is losing my breath and not being able to breathe and being stuff like that, and so I dont like to focus
am I breathing because it scares me so and also because I took dance for so long. I think I haven't been condition to I breathed the opposite of what you're supposed to I kind of breathing and suck it in I don't have that like breathe out and expand. I dont know how to do it, so I get caught up with I'm doing it wrong and then I feel like I can't breathe, and so for me, thinking about the breath is the last thing I want to do so, usually when they say think about the breath I Try to notice what it's doing, but I dont. Whenever I take any kind of class, were they tell us when debris than another my breeding is always so different that I start getting upset. You know it's common what you're describing a really nuts, not uncommon and end if you're circumstances little are a little unique.
but but generally speaking, there a lot of people who don't like to be told the focus on the breath because it makes an anxious, and so there are lots of other options like doing a body scanners feeling yeah stations at the top of your head, your forehead and moving down. You can do loving, kindness, meditation where you're like deliberately sending good. Vibes two people which is little savvy, but I, like you, do very well that I dont like that's actually that that's the ultimate Yahoo. you do it if you don't lie, that's training that building your compassion, muscle in them in the most extreme way possible, do it often, but I don't. I always thought that the secret to it was your really just sending it to yourself. If that makes sense, and that sometimes shouting at yourself is running into the version you really don't, Oh, I see what you're saying rejects. I'm one less terrible energy in this. World know about our lot of us like ourselves. Oh, I see what you're saying you. I think I finally got The place where I like myself but yeah I can do-
the body scanners, amazing that I always the body scanners, something I should do if I'm having trouble sleeping body skin. One time I used it when I was really sad and brought me into my body, it brought. It was actually the perfect thing to do. Instead of thinking of doing one of those send kindness to someone, that's hurt me with that kind of thing. Your body skin, is a great one. It's like of its bowed, having limited, know too many options, because I think too much mixing and matching can be confusing. If you got a pretty good set of moves to make a new need, some meditation- or you feel like you, wanna do as part of your daily upkeep it having one or two three four things to choose from yet make a huge difference: yeah, that's gonna what I do not like and degradation cheater. I guess that's not cheating that Europe meditate her full stop period. I wasn't like. I need to pick one kind of the into it, but I can't just hours, but it then like with everything you know
I mean I would say when you say I want to know more about what what what are the range of options a ladder choosing from so if there is one I just made up grades I do that in the morning- and I put really loud. What other? No Tibetans singing balls you can do find any of it on Youtube and I just turn them super loud and I sit. Sometimes I sit cross legged some, if sometimes I don't even get out of bed get because I won't do it. so I set up and I sit cross legged on the bed, but it's the first thing to do in a wake up and a more open to it. If I do it at that moment- and I just I I said I don't like to focus on breathing, but I dont make myself breathest. Certainly I Bree then, and I think something and I breathed out- and I think somebody so I might think anything from I am loved to breathing into. I am soothed if it's something where I need to give myself compassion or or I might breathe
I trust the process. You know something usually its service subtle mantra about just I'm not in control of anything, an outbreak now some one and I use God loosely as as sort of like Bree, then, whatever the concept that you dont control the ocean, but Someone I heard someone say once that they do. Breathing God breed out, and then your name readout Jen. So it's like a way of saying, like you know, I not running the show today. So I'll do any of those kind of things or body scan, but usually it's that kind of thing. And then I never sent undue mindful, I m not great that alone I have to be in a class you, but you will do that. You will get a class and then we're underclass said there is so yes, if I dont meditated right thing. First thing in the morning about three times a week ago to class whether about half hour, forty five minutes in New York I gotta mindful and then dsl yes and then in leisure Winslow, who owns it is affirmed. Our religious I've always wondered what
that came about, and I M so glad it's here because it and have anything like that. When I used to live out, there are three blowdryer through them. Yeah there's another place, a competitor that opened up in the flat our industry called in scape. So this is a real trend, you're, not a very good friend. By announcing that method I incurred, many subtler, I'm yes, oh I didn't. They didn't have that when I lived here two years ago and it was not a thing and then in LOS Angeles there's a place called the den yes we're gonna do pretty and what's interesting. Interesting is that than the woman that runs it was at NBC and was just done with that life and so open up the sanitation spot. So they have all different kinds of classes. So I've really Joe aid. So that's the meditation I do at home and sometimes at night I'll do bodies can before bed just to go to sleep. There's that up to stop breathing. You have heard of it. It's not as good as the ten percent happier up.
Oh that's right! I have together that I actually don't use the stop breathing gap that much cause. I don't like people talking partially to use a good up. There are actually tonnes are good heads, but he has also really good. I think there may not just in the spirit of many flowers booming ash. I mean I'm partial to the one that I built but or built helped build, but there are lots of Yeah lots really go on, but you don't like gotta meditations. There were sometimes I doubt it just depends I'll, throw one on. If I, if I'm just sort of in a neutral, I swear. I don't really have any particular thing. I'm trying to achieve that day. So I might do the morning one that's just being appreciative of the morning or welcoming the day, but usually I don't and a lot of times just has to do with the sound of the voices right yeah development is absolutely real. That's why it's important to find the teacher you like and then and then, load all of his or her stuff. Well, I've noticed I like the meditation teachers in New York better climate.
Because person. So there's this I love hippy dippy like high everybody. I love but there's just something about the New York teachers, into. I dont know what it is. they just seem to walk the walk a little more than a little more of a g. I bet you're in car screaming in five minutes from the teachers and allay where they're, just like an you know, just see where it goes. They like. Oh, you are an angry person. Offenders. However, the New York ones where they let you can sort of either. The complete person that happens to have a great understanding of this and a great practice, but they're not acting like they. Twenty four hours a day behave this way. Anybody I get virgin bushes of people who will tell you that they are going only four hours a day it's possible now, and I would think I mean I'm not a Buddhist, but do aren't you one. This area
That was not of the means less than you might think. But it's not the teachings of the Buddha to be a perfect. If that's perfection to be there with a booted eventually hobby of that he doesn't expect that we are going to achieve exact. Well, I mean he wants everybody to become enlightened by right, but you know No, he didn't know, even though I was going to ask. I think that I think I think you have to hold that pretty lightly. I don't know anybody whose fully enlightened my teacher, a guy named Joseph Gold scene, is the closest human being. Personally met to you know who I know well in a three hundred and sixty degree way he's the clauses person I've ever met it. I've never really seen him just like loses junk I went on Jap we're not going about it. I find Jack Cornfield
Be that same way. I dont know him, but I listened to his pod, Canada and that have you heard of Noah Levine sure I've got on yeah. I've gone to meditation at that places. Well, that's really them. I think more. The real deal then allow the places in LOS Angeles, I've been too, but I got into coodent, leaning, meditation. I don't know anything about that, you don't either I mean I'll. Tell you about the classes they went to. there's always someone there with a. I don't know what the outfit is, but usually a white robe or the something wrapped around their head, but it's just a woman that lives in Atlanta with sexy dresses like that all the time, but she will
you caught, you know you calm your breath down and then you repeat a mantra and they tell you what it is and actually for me repeating something out loud really helps no thoughts come into my head and I know that's the goal, but for people who are obsessed with thinking meditation is about not thinking it's really hard to keep repeating something, especially in another language, and let your thoughts stay with you, Oh yeah, you just saying it out loud and say assuming internally, and only we sing it at last, yet that I'll get yours and I learned the other thing it internally and I mean this thing clearing your mind or not. Thinking is such a tricky issue here. What you're trying to do is full It's your mind yet and when you're saying a mantra, your focused on the mantra and a lot fewer thoughts can evade. So is basically a way of saying you're using that major get you more concentrated, yeah yeah, exactly look kind disabuse, you of something, though yeah you're, not a meditation cheater. What you described to me sounds like a really
healthy awesome practice. I guess so I just you know it's the way. I go about everything. I have different ways that I dress. I have different schedule every day. I've always wanted to be the person who has a schedule always the same. You know those people that needs usually fashion designers that are like this. I wear a black t, shirt and black. and several day, and they do the same thing every day, and this is how I do it in this is that I have been obsessed with being that my whole life, because I am not like that. So, of course it content, some meditation. I felt the same way as I do about everything up to you feel in discipline yeah and yet I am very disciplined. It's just that every day looks different and I can not I I usually it on the kind of life reckon a hundred percent plan my day, twenty four hours in advance. I wish I could just the least you from the eyes of our decision, because I don't think you need. Sansom you're doing much more than most meditated do
link. So it sounds to me like you're, getting a lot out of it. I'm getting a ton of. I mean it's actually, that thing we're we're talking about where people aren't nice twenty four hours a day and I'm still, I have a thing right. if people- oh I'm, not feeling this in my heart, this is intellectual, funny anger, so I'm I'm I'm up here and pointing to my head right now: go I'm appear with it. So if I'm complaining about something you know the president or why is my family stole into him? You know word whatever, and am I got up up up up up up or this happen again, then I got on not only connected to that, but there was a time when I would take it. I think of when I used to live in New York, which was ninety eight to two thousand you I would take on the entire cities, everything. So if it was a spring day happy if the subway was late, I was a boost, in the water, not an anchor. I would say, and- and now it's engine, very I'm I level no matter what's going on around me. So a lot of things that body.
For me in the brain they dont get into my soul, so but I'm not acting peace in love, but I really do feel pretty even keeled inside most of the time to the point, or I actually I feel dumb. Sometimes you know, I think that they say that that annex I know Detention isn't spirituality, but no world depends on it defines bird road yeah. I guess some people, if I say that, would think like oh use or religion or whenever button, but I you know like there's a juice place, three doors down from where I'm staying and I've been staying here for five weeks for a general dear to me, New York City and I've been staying in Williamsburg for job in someone said: oh, you live near blah blah juice and I went some juice place. I go in everyday. I just never looked at the name of it. and its things like that, were I'm just not, and you would think with. I don't know.
Since the opposite of mine. Folks, I'm not noticing, but I just sort of I don't know, I'm just sort of in a cloud. If that makes sense now, then none that's up. I don't know, I can't explain it, but I feel more simple. That's what I'm saying I am dumber, but in it I mean that in a good way, rights have not shoe caught up in an riled up by details or emotions. That aren't particularly useful. I think so that my, but is also just. I feel certain that I'm just in my hat but button in a totally different way. Do you think this is because of the meditation or maturation or or a Multi Victoria now I think it's. I think it might be the meditation theirs. I remember my grandmother she's dead now that she seemed widows
make fun of illegal she's dumb and she was really religious, like really Catholic, but she was the only Catholic who walked the walk of Catholicism like like feed the port, like that kind of. I don't think she would be outside of an abortion clinic that that kind of thing and show it seemed out of it and then when she died, there was something that my sister and I were talking, but we're like she was just really spiritual. I dont think she was dumb. I just something she was caught up. Lot, and so I think that that's kind of what I mean is I'm not cut a lot, although its it would seem to people who know me like. I am because I sort of always know. Maybe it's going a politically or on the? U know noticing things are, but but in terms of the they'll, be people who say things oh, I don't like to do that so clicking or that person hates mere this and unlike what I've never think about what people are. Thinking of me, that's what I mean. I never think about what people are thinking of me. I don't care.
On hates me? I don't assumes one hates me. I walk into everything just neutral, I'm neutral, you think. Where do you think the mental real estate has shifted to this for lack of a better turn out to pity that you're? Talking about you? Do you think that maybe you're spending more time? This is gonna settle cheesy, but I'm gonna go for it and we're going to have any other cooler.
we say it just can't be enjoying being alive yeah. I guess so. I mean I'm not like dancing for joy by God. They're out there, because depreciative this difference between happiness and excitement yeah. So we human beings. We spend a lot of time because we evolved for you not to for survival in and to spread our genes. Yet looking for hits of pleasure and excitement so were really train to Vienna. Look for peace, Kandian, yeah, lattes in movies and subjugate happiness, as I understand it, a little bit different, more Morbo sort of in the realm of contentment, peace of mind and just enjoying being alive, not jumping for joy, just the action a simple fact: the raw fact of existence- and I wonder if I am I talking about yeah Mighta, what I'm talking about now that come closer describing where you find yourself. I think that makes sense, because what
seeing the hits of joy. I think whether even if someone isn't a drug or add actor alcoholic, everyone is in like everyone's mind, like you said, is seeking heads of pleasure people with their phones. People oh, let's go out tonight and and have a few drinks after work. they feel good and then the next. You feel the same way you felt before you went out for the drinks, and so I I have less, I dont get hits of pleasure anymore, nothing works if that makes sense, and so an that's a good thing for me, because I dont use food or a coffee or a drink or on anything to change my state. It's just adds to it if its I don't know what it but whenever possess, so it's like I'm just sort of, like you, said content, and it feels a lot better because I dont. In other words, if I had a bad day at work and a bunch of people said let's blow of steam and get drinks, I can do that
and that's totally fine, but I'm not going to necessarily field better, because I'm doing that and that's great because there's no there's a lot less expectation about anything that supposed to make me feel better and I'm not chasing like you said feeling better. I'm just chasing, I guess not feeling worse and I'm chasing by much chasing I'm just trying to not worry and be com. I mean that's really what it is it's just. I would like to not worry about things I would like yeah. So I think that's what it is. A lot of my time was spent worrying and the new chased the pleasure because you feel like you deserve it. worrying so much I don't feel I don't have that. I deserve. Let's go do acts or I need relief. Let's go do x, I dont or might have that instinct, but it's kind of just goes away. It dissipates you. You said three years ago you really started giving shearers more serious about meditation. What was going on that
what provoke you to do that. I think I was getting like I used to have depression and anxiety. There will always be a thing for me, but depression is goes, and sometimes it looks like anger. So I think my god it was paying more than three years ago, most pilot five years ago, my anger was just getting. Like I said before, I can be renting and raving about the government, but it's coming from my head, my heart's not there everything is in my body DNA was his angry in oh, and if that was too, really overwhelmed us very busy. I was touring as a comedian. I was writing on a television show, as acting on a television show. As writing my own show. I was working twenty four seven and I had no time to process feelings and its sometimes my I wouldn't shoes, to live that way. I'm not a workaholic, it was just everything happened at once. Everything was tied together, you couldn't say no, so I thought will. If my life is gonna. Look like
towards either nothing's going on or everything's going on. I have to be stable and I thought well meaning that meditation stuff I used to do me. We do that again and I started doing it just as a way to feel like. I had any, not control, but you know some of them The same is getting up ten minutes earlier in checking your email, so that you don't feel the first thing you did that day was get on a subway get in a car goosey. Your boss, like you, feel like you're on person, so is giving me that kind of feeling just sort of you work in such a crazy industry. We asked boomer bust all the time. Yeah you're, the bureau livelihood and your self esteem often depends on what Zack, it thinks of you and it's really tough. I yeah, I think so I get so I had to get to that place where I don't nothing can affect me in that way. Who can t walk? We through just got of your water water, the various things on your plate
occur perspective now so right now I've written a couple bucks than those are that's done for right, now, but I will give us the name. I can barely two. here myself in other ones called, I know what I'm doing and other lies. I tell myself: when did they come up? I can barely came out twenty third teen and the other one came out last year and paper back just came up but visited promotion friendly zone, yet I'm gonna make you promote ever get, but- and so I just an idea to Netflix vessels and just finish those- in fact I want to talk about one. Ok, I'm so I mean this sort of like ok. Well, I don't have an enough material for new special enough enough material for new books. I mean that wonderful blue skies zone. So that's. Why took I'm writing a tv show? I don't think I can see what it is. I don't know if it's like announced its picked up, but am writing on the show Then I'm going on tour in the fall, but you have enough material tour or even you tour on the stuff. The said during said, during Coggan Newman
Ariel two hour, so I will have enough to tour with, but it's not enough perfected to put it on Netflix, though touring is a little more forgiving than putting it on tv. If that makes Cs I do a lot of improvising anyway, onstage and I have I'm really into fashion and I have a necklace line. That's yet at the end of this. so I'm just sort of doing a bunch of different things, and then it's always gonna be stand up as my main thing that I do, but I can do a lot of different things. So if an acting job comes up I'll, do it if a running job comes I'll, do it. So it's that same thing as, but I can't really commit to one things I love all of it and all of it seems to come at the perfect time. So I just sort of- you know just say yeah sure, ok goin over here, but you never know I never know, but I'm getting to the point where I never know what job it's going to be, but I always know like I think, the last eight years it finally happened where I
always know it's gonna be a job and entertainment, and I do of the option of say: no two things and I get offered cool stuff, I've kind of hit that plateau but that can go away at any time at any time. So this is where meditation I could, I would imagine, will be really useful because it does put you in the goal of it. As I understand her, one of the goals of is to put you in touch with impermanence and how we are not in control and he work in industry without is in your face. all the time. It's funny. Maybe I'm in denial urge my way of coping with that, I'm in that industry, but that doesn't bother me as much as dying like when I assume that just a bigger virginal, yeah. So why would I worry about the small version when the big version is really the voter, though want so I always just I do it to control my fear of dying and then it probably ends up helping the impermanence of the industry by it. There's something
bout it where I dont mind the impertinence of the industry, because I've I've been at the bottom before I can handle it. If it happened again what one rule at the bottom, run like an end in the middle there were times when I was like. I know I'm good at this, but I just can't get anyone to see when I'm doing as you had a few gigs and another if everything bottom up and not happen for about ten year well yeah year, oh yeah, how did you keep together? I didn't the lot of hissing pleasure, a lot of anger. A lot of weight gain weight loss. Is everything was up and down get married, maybe that'll help. Oh, I got divorced. Maybe that'll help others just a lot of searching and a lot and then in it you know meditation here and there, and then, if that doesn't work, because I used to be someone that thought: oh, you do meditation dot, dot dot for the end goal of There is that why meditated today so wide in everything go well? Oh, I meditated in touch with myself and arms,
deal. Having you know, I didn't look at it quite the right. My looked, it is more like magic as magic. Right the way that someone who doesn't understand prayer would do you know what I asked for this and I didn't get it and instead of thinking waltz about well, like you said, you know getting in touch with and actually helps me creatively, it gets in touch with, because so much is thrown out me a sometimes I forget what I want, So getting quiet every day keeps me in touch with what I want and what I want always changes. I dont sometimes started projects and it too while you know you're telling manager. I wanna pitcher television show about this. Now. Ok, Then you work on it. Then you finally get the meetings than you pitch it and its eight months later and by the time in the room, pitching I don't want to do it anymore. so I'm always sort of changing, and if I listen to myself, the ideas will come. What do you do then? At that point pulpit now I just go through it. I just kind of
through it and if it ends up happening ago, was meant to be. If it doesn't like. Thank God has it ever haven't. You got a green light on something that you actually had decided at some. You didn't want to do know. It always worked out. How I suppose do so. Will you it is important that there is another way of saying no one's greenland. I think we ve gotten Netflix. Oh yeah, that's oh yeah big deal. Those are the only ones that that I wanted to happen and they did Joe what you ve at times thought you wanted to. You might want to create and right Europe the tv show yeah I've sold a few scripts and then I've been like. I don't want to tell that or any, and then they don't get picked up. What's your which your dream job would be that no, it isn't it being a stand up in it, but I don't mean just being such a huge deal being a stand up that, like Joan overseas to say, be
industry. I wanna be that I want to be thought of when you think of people that are good at stand up and I want giant audiences. So I tore a lot, but I would like to talk less and have more people, Oh instead of five hundred seven hundred people, the crowd, I was five thousand, but when you see being industry yeah first of all, I hope that happens. That sounds amazing. yeah. Well, you save me an interview, but ass. It would also mean- and you're you're doing this already- that people go see you presented, but then they also by your books and check out your specials and your podcast and it's a kind of a Euro one woman industry. That's what I'm gonna want is more like I'd want to write more books, I wanna I'm really into things and fashion and clothing. I would love to seriously want to be? In my fifties of my online of things on Cue b c and very but but it's off from a shallow place. I am very to my audience on variant
get dressed up for yourself, because it started to notice when writer you just where crappy close to work, and then I was on the every week, and so I never had a night and then I started dressing up on stage surly and a fancy outfit, but just dressing the way I would if I went out like a fun health, it cause that's my night out and so then it so to happen with women in the audience. They would come in they redress for me and then on my instagram. It psych. Where did you get that and so there's this sense of taking care of yourself through well, you look, and I mean that in a positive way like not that you have to be attractive, look a certain way, but look be you and express it through clothing, and so that's really important to me. There's little tiny messages in my work that if I could blow those out into something that would be really call me if someone, I think, I'd rather I've Didn't I find it very boring, there's a lot more waiting. So if I was a good Enough Acta, I'd love to do a play, but I'm not really quite that good, but I haven't seen you act would have.
I can be I can be me is, is what I can do. I was on a tv show. playing myself reserve. A glaring self was called after lately is about the staff on Chelsea me in the show used to ride on and so is like few seasons and it was like a sick come, but it was scripted, but I was playing myself and have done like there's a movie coming out in the fall called home again with Reese Witherspoon. I played a friend of hers. I mean just a few quick scenes. I have a feeling that coming There's this there's something about when I'm being me. That suggests it. I think it reads weird it's good to know that yeah yeah. I want to know what you're good at and keep the hammering away at that. If someone wanted to four, I dont this doesn't happens. That's one thing: if someone to hand me a show to act on, I think that would be fun but to the truth about its there's so much sitting around waiting. It really boring. I like lied stuff and so right. Every year I pay
show. You know like. Oh hey what about this idea? There's someone, I would just say by someone else, run it I'll collect the Czech so the I'm always gonna do that, because I think if you don't do that, you're agents drop. You like there's always that, like you, lay in the lottery while you're doing what you really love, and I call that stuff the lottery so yeah. What I really want to do is just be a life performer and travel the world doing it, which I do but I want just more audience. More money is basically just wanna. Be rich is but know Joe exactly so so that we mention the Netflix one of them. You open up with the whole bit about meditation yeah. Now I don't want to make you read you the bit buggy just kind of give us the basic conceit of it yet well, it's funny to because what I mean it's funny, but I start by saying I meditate, which means I do not meditate and I say that to by the way I expected
when you came in by announcing that that you wouldn't be a meditative, but you are. Admittedly, I owe vigour not being totally honest and bit now, and you can't be because there's nothing funny that hey guys on trivial, undeclared four minute I meditated. No, it's so funny. I just centre myself, so I picked a moment the meditate or of what it's like on the days that you skip it and yet you still see yourself as one word the when you first start doing you think you need all the stuff, so I've got the candle in the chair and the truth is ever said in that chair and do what I do it anywhere else and so, but I didn't want to then just say, open a really do meditate, because then there out of the bit there not relating and then so I do this whole about this one day when I meditated- and it felt great and my joke as I could- handle anything if it and have to leave the house, if you just feel so unfair, once you get out there in the world. That's what I
in the accumulation of builds up building your bank of doing it all the time. I think randomly helps you when you least expected so long line at the post office. Usually when you doesn't care that I think it's like physical exercise yeah. for the same reason. You are you never know when you have to pick something up, but you ever know or get chased by a rubber exactly, but when you meditate doesn't doesn't mean that day half hour later you won't get agitated and react absent So I go into a whole thing about. I was feeling good. This guy was beeping at me. I accidently stopped as a light was going green, a yellow light, don't go through the light and they got really mad and then we kept- into each other studio city, California, people notes very like suburban Marbella, and so it's just stop right after stoplight and we just kept park next to each other at the light, and he called me a dominance and then the bit is that I say
and up in my car in that part of true who is sort of I stood up in my car and through the sun roof and just went off on him swearing and he drove up and said you're crazy, an ice cream. I'm not crazy! Unmeditated did I meditated today, mother effort, so, and then the joke is. Oh, my god, I meditated today. What if I hadn't like how much more angry when I didn't. I didn't quite. It's a serve a combination of two stories. I did yellow M through the window, but the standing up and going through the sun roof. I did that one when I was having road rage and I couldn't see what was going on ahead of me and I hate, when giant escalates, when people just drive cars, that big for no reason I stood up to see what was going on, because I was so angry, but I wasn't yelling at any one. So I just combined those two things again Norton to close a liar but yeah, but I was so enraged. I was shaking just.
aching. When I stood up everyone I yelled at this guy and I was on a day when you had met. I had managed to get a half hour before and I yelled and I I lied to him. I turned out to be alive. Either that some going on them. I told other died and that's why I wasn't paying attention did not die. She still live and that, but then I have to go to a meeting and I drive in and I'm totally normal thing I do and not because of meditation, but because that's what we do and the jokers into another place, which is just about Does it ever scare you when you act one way and you dont? Let people see that and then you act, another way in front of people, which is why I am suspicious of anyone who acts, like thereof guru, all the time. When they're just a thirty year old, blonde woman formulae and like there's no way you're not screaming when you chippendale there's no way so yes over that bit. Over well with people. I get a lot of comments from people that they ve.
done the same thing and then I always unsocial meteorite them actually As you know, the time you'll love it and I give them attorney Goodman bites its useful. I think, because I mean this comes from irish- they have very specific perspective. Having written a book called temperature unhappy, I mean I don't think meditation should be marketed as a silver bullet or a panacea is absolutely true that you're gonna lose your temper. Sometimes I have a friend named SAM Harris who was not we're not related known at a good friend of mine and he's a meditative. Any talk, about the half life of anger in that one, you meditate, the half life comes way down and then there's an enormous incalculable difference between the amount of damage you can do in an hour of anger and two minutes of anger as two minutes, vagary wait, say some seventy stupid to the due next. You it at the stoplight studio city, but you might not carry him into fifteen other meetings with the course of the day might dissipate yeah because you're not feeding it through
compulsive neurotic thinking? I just saw that happen on the subway, the party somebody somebody else's, I was- and I told you did you might get we got on and the trains are all messed up and it decided to go express and he wanted to get off it. Twenty thirty had to go to work and it was getting off a thirty fourth unused to seek an undue was I was on. Twenty third is, and he seemed like otherwise in normal person, in order that is having an episode of mental illness rating on that. There's nothing wrong with that and it was just like. Let him go he was just we all probably understood, and he was really angry and I thought I could he can just walk the nine blocks. I mean it's going to be that far, but he was just it. I would Think of people as a little kid like now. Isn't working hours, and so he still was mad once stopped at thirty four. I thought he would be ok, but you he was man. The doors were an opening. That's enough any I sound is walk off still angry, so I dont know if you'd probably loot he was.
For sure, but there's nothing worse when you're late than to be angry on top of it, because when you come into work that way, you look unstable and no one believes that you are late for any good real. So is it's like this that happened that was sort of like mine, my story. I dont know how long he was made after that, but but my finger ended rather quickly in that car situation, but but yeah get judgmental. I get sick, Then it happened at all. I mean those was to be different. No nano yeah, you shouldn't is another thing of lacking disabuse, yeah, yeah you're, not gonna, be perfect and may not yet the beauty of the bed is that you're from my stamping out as a meditation evangelist it's great to tell people you can't of root millennia of evolution. In a couple years of daily meditation yeah. Maybe it's possible if you live in a cave, or maybe it's possible through if through fifty years of dog id retreat,
oriented meditation too, like really unwind a lot of this conditioning by half an Nevertheless, civilians and people who are active in the world. It's not gonna happen. That way, and I think, is a comedian. It's good. I mean action is now in my audience, want no like a lot of money. They Leon they like to go, relate to some Absalom there's. No, it's funny out This is sort of off to the side. But when I was a kid I no, I I groped Catholic, but not catholic school in people. Weren't shoving throat just church once a week and take what you on and known bother me about it, but I started to and I'm not catholic now, but I was having serious doubts about the more magical, I'm coming back from the dead. I'm this in that and I went to a prisoner said, might still you violate the teachings of Jesus and amend the feed. The poor by the gate rose from the down. Think any thus negroes ghost like a Sonata Good Catholic, any said, you're, Perfect Catholic. He goes you supposed to have doubts. You're here
Practicing belief and in every because I have doubts, but I do this and not an I get what I cannot of it- and I was like blew my mind. So not talking about Catholicism. I carry that into my life. Of course he was to have doubts that just means keep going. I guess it's different, because I I don't do Catholicism anymore, but in sense of it's ok to have doubts, but no one's asking you to literally believe X, Y and Z. Look, it's ok to doubt yourself and then but anyway, I think it's great what you're saying is it's a practice yet end in just like anything, you practice exercise or learning Comedy our learning and a musical instrument. It's gonna be failures and setbacks. Huge wins, interesting moments of insight, moments of doubt and it just to give decided or tis a bit hackney to walk a path. I think people do.
do it right and be perfect, I know and they had a big per. I have that problem too. I thought when I first learn to meditate. I thought I was gonna win at so I am page. I missed huge chunk of the basic constructions. All the stuff about you know when you get lost and distracted, give yourself a break. That's the key, moment. I ignored all that because out just like I'm, not gonna, get losses distracted, I'm gonna grit my way through this and have coup, of course, that did that didn't work out so well, for me and I actually have to hear that over and over again, because I'm so Taipei and Achievement oriented that this is a counter intuitive move for me with I get very judgmental too, I did a sound bath. We were done it's one of those things, even though I have never really done. I just make fun of reflects voice. I don't want you love that,
I went to one and it's supposed to be in other play the singing both for anyone. Listening. It's a beautiful sounds here listening to its supposed to vibrate internally and really help you visually age. I see no evidence that that's true, but now there may be evidence that I just haven't. Looked at a chasm, lazy, there's it's the end up going to hear but from a million I dont know. If there's I don't know how scientifically whatever but there's there's you can find it evidence. You know. Ok, so I went just furred to relax and She said if you think, you're gonna fall asleep, you know, the lay down thing thinking to fall asleep, and you want to experience this. You can do it sitting up. everyone laid down and six guys fell asleep and they were snoring so loud there were snoring louder than the sound bath and I could not. She said if you sounds the room, someone coughs, you know, you know how it is new meditate might hear an ambulance go buy. You can't be like that. How you have to let it be part of it, but I could not. I
but I was so angry and judgment awake. She said if you like, you, don't know you snore like yourself, I mean I was going nuts not unjustified but being selfish because it has to go the way I wanted it, and so I would just I sat up to give a message to the teacher. This is all going on in my head. I'm giving her a message that I can not sound bath properly These guys are snoring and I would open my eyes look at her look at them and I would psycho ha just. She then doing thing she weapons, nor and then, when I left this, how did you like it s? It couldn't hear this too much snoring and that so that was like a recent example of how I have lost my my but that wasn't quite meditation she just said: lay there yes you are a meditative flagging out a lost your mind. So what happens all the time? But that see everything is perfection. Is of me I expect and then perfectionism on my environment
everything is going well yeah. I dont have it a ton but jeez. That was like a great example. but then, when I am, I gonna take your followed by the way it is annoying. It is annoying I got very like it was just went to all finds it places like I'm thinking a man spreading on the subway. Feminism is coming up make when a man get a notice. What they're doing I was going to raising, but I think it was definitely some thing that was like ok well now, I know for next time, don't goes Bridget. No, I'm not however, when I go to a solo, one, that's how they get you o roon I'd, know it's there They make it really annoying. So you have to sign up for the Euro Zone will not do so. Also sure I mean a costume that so you brought up Catholicism in your family. You grew up the town next to me, you're crazy, you're, a few years behind me in high school. I was a narrow. Do well, no account just terrible terrible, new Orilla goods were well babe. Students are we,
that guy we never met. I took ballet in piano. My mom kept me busy after school. My parents did not, and I had all sorts of genetic. I good student, but I was busy person so sure What is your family think about the meditation thing in the fact that you're not really doing Catholicism anymore, although I am not sure those toured anyway linked? he. What do they think of your habit? I don't even care My mom she's here the pressure and I and she took some yoga bitch she's, like the teacher, was judging me when she wasn't nine Minos. Seventy nine us are not like: she needs to grow yoga Oh sorry, rendition meditate for the I don't want to get into that. I think she thinks it's a religion, but she wouldn't mind doing it, but I think there is still something in her brain. That's like I'm gonna get in trouble with God so say you can. Catholic meditated can centre in poorer, yeah and and no, and so what would you do? Rosaries yeah! That's what I told her in
I know I know now it's it. It's a visit, it's a medical thing I know I know high blood pressure is real. Take your pills also meditate like why not throw everything out of it, so I'm trying to get her. Do it. She doesn't care that I do it. They did care when I again, I thought I had to become a Buddhist and be religious. So I first couple years now lay I'm going to the Buddhist centres I'm announced to everyone. before you can win in the door. I am a Buddhists now and my mom was a god. You were baptized. God knows that you're a Catholic in and he's not happy that he sees. You're doing she's not quite like that anymore she's dropped a lot of that kind of superstition, but
and then he rose and want to be a Buddhist either. I dont want any particular thing at all it s, so I didn't do that either where I've come to an old buddhist thing, the others is, and people who listens progress proletarian me hearing me says, but it's you can certainly be practised as religion, but I dont do it that way, and I don't believe in anything I can't prove in, and the Buddha specifically said, unama to talk about some metaphysical stuff, like men, rebirth karma, but you can take it or leave it. I think this is something to do. You know. Reality is a set of mental exercises. So in many ways you actually are a Buddhist because you're doing a lot of buddhist meditation, and so in that's the sense in which I consider myself a boost.
Gets cognitive, yes, very similar, like cognitive behaviour, therapy unaware you're you're in changing the way you do things or z thing, sir. There is this thing called NBC T mindfulness based Cognitive report actually combine the two. I think it goes very well and I am I pray and I dont believe anything, but I do not believe in anything. I dont pray because they think something's watch, you mean gonna, make something happen. It is a way for me to get out of myself- and I like to see eight things out loud. This what I want that ceiling, idea. I have, I am sure you know anything of ever wanted in life has come as a complete surprise and life has told me this is what would be good for you right now. It's never what I think. So, if I'm stuck and unlike no, if I dont have this, I won't be happy
I pray about it. I get on my knees, and I say this is my great idea: I'm giving it to you whoever universe, whatever work with that and come back to me with what I should be doing, I'm I'll do it I'll do it. You tell me to do make me want what's right for me and that really helps me too, and then I meditate, because I feel like maybe I'll, get not answers like someone's talking to me, but it just loves me clear out: I you know we wake up for me. I wake up my mind's already going. I wake up with desires and disappointments and obsessions, and so that just helps clear it for the day that kind of thing or like before perform I'd, if I think of it as I'm a vessel for the talent that was given to me in that subjective, much like him, the talented and I am also thinking of twitter when I'm talking Penza somebody's gotta worry about it. Let me because it takes it still me. I wrote these things, but I do take the pressure off of and I think, Medicine
this? Is too it's like, I'm not in control, but in the most love, We have ways I still get to be a body in mind on earth, but I don't have to like make anything happen on have to make the wind blown out to make myself breathe. That's most magical thing: is you breathe all day and are not making yourself do it so whatever that is that will inform you what I do next and I get to have an opinion of when I like it when I dont that someone, but anyway, so all stuff. I've just stop trying to decide what I think anything is because it doesn't even matter what I think is not my business. If there is a God who cares, I couldn't care less. I, like all those yeah Matthew, one last question, just on a keep running myself notes once and work, as you say something I want to follow the com on a comedy tip. I don't think your mind if I quote him
but not my name in my book, but I'm going to go to my name now. Cuz, you may know him as a comedy writer out in La Jeans to Penske used to write for the office. I've never met him, no so hee hee. he and I were on some vacation like were vacation years when he saw me reading a book about Buddhism, and he said I couldn't do that, because I couldn't mediterranean into bosom, because I need to be judged mental and It would be a comedian I now to be able to say no to to do not pick up people's flaws and things like that. Do you find that in any way, being a meditate or being happier calmer has neutered your art no made it back When I am sad, I can't perform something's tarred going my life, I'm not one of those people who channels it through comedy. I use do and if you use to see someone who is unhappy on state over what you're old performances you, yet you be working out some demons there. You have to ask themselves. Can,
Jimmy, but you can hear me and it's not funny it might be. A funding is enough on it. I don't think it's funny temporary angry and its I'm not joking that that's may be whites, not funding to Meeks. I know it's real. Now I can get worked up and I'm acting in my car. so I feel, like you, have to process what you ve been through and then report on it later and and recall how it felt that act it, but I feel like not because you can still be judgment on the meditate, her cousin. I'm never going to supping judgmental and then you let it pass right. That was my argument. Yes, there's a great cord from this teacher who you may have heard of rum. Does yeah, I don't uproot you're too rosy, but you become a connoisseur of them. Is assembly of your car. sure to Oliver craziness yet but you're. Not owned by it as much in that allows you to actually get in there and you write about it. Tell jokes about it and not be so wrapped up in it that your audience is gonna, get the sense wow. This is funny, but this person, maybe you screwed up Elizabeth Gilbert sitting in her book.
book, big magic, I'm going, I'm gonna quote it wrong that she was like if you think that, like getting on medication are going to is going to not make you funny she's like your demons, but I can't quota that she was clear demons, weren't doing a good job of running your you look it up everybody, but I love ran very wisely. Favorite round. Dusk quote is where just walking each other home I'll just start crying. If I think of that well, It's not a good mind, never heard it before. I, like it yeah I in there's a little vintage clothing stored next to where I live, and they have that written on a chalkboard outside for some reason, and that's my favorite little quoting I just really cool it's a good way to just when you look at your fellow person, you judge them and you go yeah, we're all going to die and we're all just trying to help each other get through it, whether you know it or not. Just being a presence, the subway, while someone else's their lets them. Look at you and go there's another human
another just something about liked as being alive, that you're always helping others, even just by walking around as long as you're, not hurting them, but we so easy to forget it. Oh, I prefer to think about do you ever have Jerry Seinfeld on you and I want to use them his meditating. All I want is the funniest Percy devote your friend is wrong. If you know em, I don't know I mean I really dont know. No, he doesn't do interview so yeah right even when it gets under, promote we're working, I'm Lucy cake also meditate her. I would love to have an idea. I know, and I could ask and bring up please do who have we had on from the committee Delaney Oh he's great: he meditated, yes, he's a greater ample then he's an angry dude.
I dont mean in real life, but I'd heard a landmark murder like, as you said, he was, and he holds it in very well. I ve had a moment of real hunger after showed in Gaza. Will, of course, any sort of exercise low. Those demons right here in the chair and yours you're sitting and we are, he happens to be a friend but comedians or great interviewees, as as you have, I will thank you, I'm so glad. I know someone tweeted address not like, oh god, they're gonna make him felicity this none at all I suppose I out so I thought I was delighted. I've gotta, so one more time yet of promotions for people want to learn more about you when I got out and they do let us go my website. Jen Kirkland not come one end and generally body, and I haven't you but I'm doing another lies. I tell myself just came up paper back, so they can get that at all. There Amazon. Indeed, on dot org wherever they want to go on the Ottoman Netflix right, my son,
so called M. O just keep Livin. I've learned actually did if you just type in June curtain on reflection will get both are really I'll get. Ok, I've never try to set up a legit, but you don't know I went some Dunham done can watch it really. I had to watch it edit it. So I dont enough already I sought five times. You know what a dial up in just one year and by the way, when I say edit, I mean we taped to different performances, and I had to watch it to pick which performance I liked. We didn't like Manila late. Anything we can add a laugh track. I mean that that's what I mean by editing, I didn't again I am responding to twitter yeah you're too, I. Thank you very much really appreciate. It is really cool Ok, there's another edition of the ten percent happier podcast. If you like it, please make sure to subscribe rate us, and if you want to suggest topics, we should cover a guess,
We should bring in hit me up on Twitter at Dan be Harris. I also want to thank heartily the people who produce with Pakistan really do very much out of work. Nephron Josh Cohan, SARA Hand, Sarah AMOS Andrew Camps, the Germans and the head of ABC Use, Digital Dan silver attacking Excellency, There's not a person in Amerika who hasn't been impact it in some way by the corona I was pandemic, but it every community. There are pockets of people who were soon
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