Anurag Gupta, who immigrated to the U.S. from India at age 10, has devoted much of his adult life to helping reduce racial inequality and transform bias into awareness and understanding with mindfulness techniques. An attorney and mindfulness expert, Gupta founded BE MORE America, a non-profit that works with various organizations, including hospitals, banks, tech firms and police academies, to train professionals on how to eliminate bias in hiring and decision making.
This is an unofficial transcript meant for reference. Accuracy is not guaranteed.
Paid stand before we jump into this week's conversation, which is really good and really important one I one tables and new we're doing at the ten percent happier app as part of our top secret corporate research, by which I mean talking to customers in exile, tourism is become very clear to us. What is probably blazing we obvious anyway, which is that the number one obstacle to meditation for people is time. You'll feel I gotta have type which I get Oh we ve got a whole new initiative were doing around one minute counts that serve new slogan. I guess I should say mantra since its meditation. text. Women are really does count actually, and you, I've heard a while ago, we had a guest Corey monsieur as a great meditation teacher, he was now a guest real, came in and taught another guest how to meditate on a separate episode and Corey in the course of our past talked about
here. She really agrees that one min accounting actually said something that really got me thinking. He said that if you can get Europe but in the chair to do one minute the end of that one minute. There's a key moment where you may decide. Ok, I've been ever one minute I'll do another minute and then, moment is a huge moment from the standpoint of of behavior change, habit formation, because at that point you're good, from exile, genus external expectations to really and internal decision of oh yeah, I'm here I want to do more and then you're on your own steam there and in it in an inner in really different sort of, So we ve done on the app is we ve created all these one minute, meditations, but their adjustable lent? So as soon as you get the ended one minute, you can either finish, or you can re up into another one, maybe another one after then another one after that and see where it takes you. So we got
bunch of these up there from people who share in Salzburg, seventy Selassie J Michaelson, a new teacher working when they Matthew Hepburn, so go check it out. That being said, I want a tip our guest for this week, who is truly doing important work, I think, can be a really thought provoking listen for you. His name is on Iraq. Gupta and, He now has a lot of experience do meditation, but he has thought quite deeply about racism and bias in our culture, which is to state the obvious a massive problem. and he's got a lot about ways in which meditation can be useful on this front. So without further Ado areas, for from ABC the ten percent happier vodka than her. Thank you very much for doing really appreciate it.
Having me, I'm really interested to hear about your work. I think it's of massive societal, economic, cultural, moral importance, but I want start with just just getting to know you will, but because we have met, although we do have a really good mutual friend said the Selassie prior guest on this broadcast, so. How did you get in the meditation like from a family of family and my grandmother actually was the first person with whom I meditated and my mother introduced me to create yoga, which was a lot of pony online by learning about breath work and then freer yoke. Is that one of the popular kinds of you of it these days yeah I mean it was not a major part of the yoga teacher training programmes across the country in the world now, but it was really brought to the west in nineteen. Twenty, per month of the urban agenda with the self realisation fellowship. So that I've heard of but not familiar with and use. It me little note about your background. You mentioned this, but I
self realisation fellowship indeed- and he said it was- it was kind of a we too use yogi philosophies of India with the Christian Yoke Philosophies of Jesus so. My mother has been a student of a she introduce me to that in college. I formally started meditating so about fifteen years ago, even after college. I moved her. South Korea was on a Fulbright there and is assigned to teach English had a buddhist school, so that was kind of before into furlongs and practise what they call the Sun Buddhism showed just it. I've got my concept, correct you're, so of you, when you were meditating in the hindu contacts with more of a mantra meditation actually there a mantra meditations would create. Yoga was very much around the breath. Ok- I was really noting the brass and very soon
to the personal practice. Actually, the ones that I was doing very similar debates are basic, marvellous, where you are aware of the wrath coming in and going out and when you get lost. You start again. You said that earlier when you first mention it, but I thought you were too about being aware of the breath, as you practice you're actually talking about a meditation where you just feel in the breath come and gone out and then also be able to control the prize so. But of proteome practices, which is really around in a staggered breath. I'm count along. The lines are really being able to see the state of the mind as your breathing. Her and stood in you got into your doing buddhist meditation, these eight Korea in South Korea and then I I was so back up a little bit. I was how very interested in international development and human rights and I was in college my first year of college. I read about dogs on Sochi. So she is,
one of the leaders of Burma, the country, Because now Myanmar and I was just so thrilled by her story and just moved pilot that I wanted to work in burma- so as an American. At that time I can go to Burma, because we because to tell us how emerging there so I figured out a way to go there after college. That why I went to Korea to start a non there in Burma actually and there. I was also introduced her buddhist practice in the insight tradition and the Poznan tradition solitaire about a Buddhism. that's where it all began your candidate at a time Oh yeah, right after college, I was twenty one how'd. You know you're still, one. Thirty one Martina dealt man but, to my mind, This point at forty five you're young, taken as a compliment It does not mean I don't take me seriously means nothing. I am envious, but really what it means
so so even then you ve been Callin steeped in the stuff for awhile This is my life. I mean there's nothing more, that I love about, living today than the dogma and mindful of practices and meditation. so when you started by having exposure to both Burma and South Korea What is that member? How serious have you gone about? The practice do? Did you go live in The do you, or did you become a daily thirty minute, a day thing. What what's so? What's the dosage? Both actually is, I did a month long retreat. I became a monastic in the charm tradition in Taiwan I literally just one on a programme. That was geared towards western, I'm still so Buddhism, and really began to experience mindfulness in solitude all, together with a lot of devotional practices at her car.
the tradition, but then also, of course, have you daily practice have done over almost two dozen retreats across inside centres. In the U S, you know you mentioned some of them. In the past Spirit Rock, I am ass. I sit on the board of Pcbs, which is assessed organization. Inside meditation society, pcbs bury Centre for Buddhist studies in various belt, be a r r E. It's an amazing Berry Massachusetts. It is where the inside meditation societies, which was founded by Joseph Goldstein and share in Salzburg and Jack Cornfield in his, whereby I do a lot of rates and you do retreats as well and but its cotton. Like a Buddhist EPCOT Centre out their meaner, it's like they ve got, you ve got I ass, which is a retreat center. They also have a of the forest. Refuge reaches a retreat Jennifer for advanced students. And then BC be asked the Berry Centre for Buddhist studies, which is a place where you can both practice meditation also learn about Buddhism and in its many different flavors,
and I've never actually taken a course at pcbs, but they offer online courses, which I think are superb. Yes, serb, yes, and you ought to visit I've met is it I visited in, but I've never actually sat so anyway. So, yes, yes, you were your listing off your your basic garlic credentials. There you have it. this agreement, regardless of those the Windows opportunities for the allowed me to become really intimate with my mind and really understand the nature of the mind and how I was filled with so much violence towards myself, which really has percolated into the work that I've done prior to coming to mindful us, but also since what do you mean by that violence towards yourself? So basically I mean the way to the: U S when I was ten from from India? I grew up in TAT in Delhi and there are three things that were happy
simultaneously. One thing is that I've always been really really passionate about service like giving back in that studies that stuff that's daffy, something that I receive from my family members, but also I grew up in a very very I would say emotionally unstable, family everybody's together, but there's a lot of issues that aren't talked about issues like death and suicides and just arranged marriages and which comes out into interpersonal emotional violence. So experiencing that I was already feeling like there's something wrong with me: owing to the U ass. This was you know mid nineties and then nine eleven happening. I became oftentimes theme subject of attack, mostly verbal You know being called a summit in Lahti, just walking down the street or on the subway quite often or just fine,
being like I've been uttered and an almost not human, because of the way I've looked so that kind of perpetuated a whole sense of self loading which from me, was a difficult on the one hand, but the way I escaped it was through achievement doing really well at called trying to prove myself as much as possible. and I did I tell you ve a lot. You know at a young age, as you said, I was addicted. That was my addiction. Is achievement getting incredibly good grades carrying scholarships you know being admitted to some of the most prestigious universities in the country, You know of four degrees, indifferent as of loans, including being a lawyer, but there is always a sense of not being enough, and it was my wife openness practice that really allow me to understand the nature of that. You could have left
a high achieving, but quite unhappy life without that agreed. I totally agree, is really interesting oh that fed into what you're doing now be more Amerika tat Tommy. but tell me what the organisation that I have a thousand questions from their sounds great, so the more of her be more american actually stands, it's an acronym be more itself and it stands were beyond equality. The movement of opportunities, rising, everyone more and this idea relief was conceived through my mind for this practice: I was struggling with the amount of inequity that I saw in our world, but politically in America, after going to law school but also thematic inefficiencies that I saw in our system. So someone who, like things,
Systems in was pursuing an academic career prior to going to law school, I'm just like, while there so much wasted costs in wasted human talent. Because of this thing that we have that become bias And I also saw that in the world of you know, inclusion in diversity, there's a lot of policing that goes on people theirs alone. Shame and killed and wounded knows that we see the Edward constantly trying to show other people that they're wrong. You know end or these that's how I felt it's not a generalization. About the entire industry and for someone who was experiencing a lot of let myself once I beg an intimate with my own being. I was like we know, like I'm. Ok right on my from my mind for the practice of the first five years was just matter herself
We should define that Emmy Tt S, love, loving, kindness and often into practice the you send to other people, but the first step generally is self compassion. Loving kindness for yourself in a lot of people have a hard time of that and sounds like you properly diagnosed yourself as somebody who needed too, have deeply into that. Do had thanks the guidance of a lot of my teachers, including Sharon's Ellsberg, who saw that we reach a strike there there something blocking you from seeing the bigger picture and then on a retreat with, but I was just yet. I was after Lascaux, those working in Arabic think tank. Looking on issues of criminal justice and because it was a systems oriented organization. I was able to see a lot of just massive disparities, whether came to prison populations and who was being arrested, but also for how long people are going to prison
and being like sitting in the courtroom and seeing you know, judges sentence young african, american children, you know fifteen sixteen years old to jail for four or five years for possession of marijuana. What I was like living law school, like a lot of my classmates, would have that much the time and it would be smoking, but nothing would be made out of tat. I just saw this is unfair, not that my colleagues will last should be arrested and thrown into prison, but I'm just saying that what is behind some of these systemic ways of being and what's needed to shift that, and you really think it's implicit bias that the judges are doing this because they hate young black people. It's because they are loaded up with a bunch of cultural assumptions that there are not even aware of because its mindless. Precisely, of course, there's conscious, biased out. There is.
which is explicit bias, but the vast majority of biased our country today and the world is implicit which has again, like you said, implicit bias, are ingrained habits of thought, led to errors in the way we make decisions in the way we perceive and reason and remember things and that's a Canada mindful his practice, because as human beings, first of all animal so we have a brain. We have a nervous system and be received stimuli from her five senses and we make associations with all of those that stimuli, visual stimuli being one of those things. So how are we making those associations, when associations NBC human beings of different cholera, different size of the different genders? And how is impacting the decisions were making, but isn't even some of it adaptive. You know we adapted to make judgments very quickly because it paid off what oh that's a safer tooth tiger. I should run away.
Rachel. So isn't some of their sizing up? We do quickly are their benefits. to some of the absolutely I mean, I think that we need to know the difference between a tiger and a puppy a kitten and like a giraffe for sure? But what about William beings like I just get a bad vibes that person? I don't. I don't know If I want to sign my company, overtook them or whatever it is still a lot of that Vibe aspect is the whole aura of a person s being being with time, looking at their temperamental facial expressions of verbal Nonverbal Heather communicating, but when it comes to implicit bias in this topic, implicit, racial buyers, so, for example, judges on out sentence black men eighteen months longer, I'm boy, then you know non black defendants for the same exact crime. Controlling for all other factors. Did you see the documentary? Third? Of course I mean incredibly powerful yeah, so what's going on there right so for me,
Someone again who studied this stuff because I was like I want to know the root of this. So I had a professor. our school, a professor dart bell, has passed away by sure sure, you're famous and Harvard LAW School, Professor Derga. Exactly was professor in a former president, Barack Obama's in he basically some critical race theory, and he and I disagree on one thing: you know: I've adored him as an academic, but the one thing we disagreed upon was that racism is permanent because someone who practices the Darwin and my from factors like one. Nothing is permanent everyday in permanent, but when you will go to the roots of racism raises a contract is very recent right and I won't. I dont want people to conflate race, with ethnic city with nationality, with citizenship with religion, which is where
Anti Semitism comes in but race, as in looking at someone's appearance and assuming their geographic background, new african or asian, your native American and then making assumptions about securely in all of our systems weep? ask people what is your race well here. The human genome project proved that there's no genetic or biological basis varies in seventeen years, since they ve coded the entire human dna and have actually found that are actually people from different Concord, racial backgrounds, maybe more genetically similar and people in this in conclusion: racial cat- or how do you define the difference in race and great question? So I define race as a human hierarchy. There was constructed in the seventeenth century. I'm by a bunch of pseudo scientist who loved to collect skulls and body parts of people from across the world. People like when they are swimming bug and then put them on you. No hierarchy of competence in a
and I was very much based on their subjective beliefs and basic need ideas, percolator across the world. You know, through academics through scholarship also influencing our founding fathers, so the Nationality ACT, citizenship in the US in one thousand, seven hundred and ninety one required that any free white person may be admitted to become a citizen, so that idea of whiteness and being european was invented. and I did change until meeting sixty by with immigration out but its invented, but it's based on it. based on some I mean. Obviously putting in a hierarchy is deeply problematic. But I am of cohesion extraction right. That's that's kind of in arguable right am, I may have different. Who knows what would happen in my gene pool leading up to me? I have no idea
but are are you or your family come from India right so that that is a fact so How how do we? How do we untangle that from race, and where does ethnicity come in and all that? So I apologize for my ignorance here, but I'm learning from you no apologies necessary, and I think this was the best question you could have asked me today. because the myth of caucasian this was just invented, in the seventy nineties, based on a skull of a formerly enslaved woman from the region of the Caucasus. What is now the country of Georgia? So there is a scientist in blooming bark and german scientists, who are the largest skull collection of any person in the world and inside. The time was a friend of his sent him the skull and because the skull was from this region of the Caucasus Hickey, he anointed, that's call the name. Cock resorted to make it sound, scientific and then simultaneously to that,
for their skulls, American, Lloyd, African, Lloyd Mongoloid, Molly annoyed and hence we have racial hierarchy. But if you can, think about modern day. Europe, Europe in the seventeenth century, eighteenth century, was an incredibly diverse with people, there was a lot of inviting. There was not very much trust between them and there were differences of really tuna that MRS De of language, you name it and also there have been invaders pouring through from all over Europe in their so many mixtures and inner mixtures, but then we have no idea right where I was mixers are, but because story has been created that has been adopted by influential people right, influential leaders of countries of companies of academia stories, percolated unconceived, into the, Consciousness, so the better question would not be raised, would be ethnicity, exactly an embryo, much longer list its much longer list and ethnicity really isn't
tension upon once phenotype exclusively though it could be right. Tina type phenotype is people's appearance, physical appearance, how they appear in the world, their skin color. The facial features in here texture but he can be an Italian. You can be ethnically italian and be very dark skin or someone dark skin or very light skin with light here for your Italian. So ethnicity is really where you share a sense of history, a culture of intent, language also spirituality, with a group of people, and sometimes you also share physical attributes with the with the people from the group, but not necessarily so it's a Fucking Americans, for example, are left necessity because they have a very unique culture that they develop because of the experience of enslavement and then Jim Crow. African american culture is very different from you know: canyon, culture,
you dont nigerian kinds, are logged into the same rights precisely even though ethnically african Americans actually predominantly mixed and you can actually be more european in terms of genetic pool, but still be called African American because of the one tropical and that's where some of the trouble around this hierarchy is in, me as someone who wants to really unleash human potential. I think we have to overcome this. The separation and this fictional idea has created and so much misery and suffer no question? How do we overcome in and what role did my fulness play so For me personally, as someone who can I broke my own biased and really understood it from us. I broke your own bias, meaning toward yourself or, like you, don't tell yourself some big story when I walk into room you're not like ok why guy who's wearing a collar should probably grow privileged and is,
whatever out whenever store you might spend both and both and actually my own buys around how I thought of myself. You know, and my potentials what I could do, but I couldn't do these timely appearance and my ethnic background, but also the things was a soothing about people, but before I even talk to them based purely on what they look like- and I think for me was the might on this practice that really helped to that, but its soil I'll, give you and anecdotes. I was sitting on a retreat machines, housework. It was one of the weak long on loving kindness practice and towards the middle of the week. We started-
doing forgiveness, practice literally all day. So, if you think about you know, meditating be sixteen hours is forgiveness. After a while you just get like super super sensitive, and I began thinking about all the times. I had harmed other people a lot of times, white people by the thoughts I was carrying and how I was using even toward white, in a way to anti humanised him, and that's when I began to see the seeds of violence and my own being towards myself, of course, because I've been practicing for a while, but also towards other people. So then I began question. So what is the difference between me and now? If someone is called
Osama Bin Laden, without knowing anything about my spiritual background, like ethnic background. They have those speeds in defeating those thieves, but I too am doing that and I'm unable to see the humanity in the other person and looked most of the teachers that have brought me the practice of mindfulness white. I will be call like today, so I think that was when I was like wow there's something or something here, there's something here and then the mall, in practice the boy seal percolating into reality, and so for me, how do we do this with me back to your question? There's two things
if one is really allows us to be aware of. What's going on, rights are therefore foundations. Wakefulness Rosalie talk about the body in a few it home, I'm thoughts, emotions and hindrances, and also to think that allows us to become aware of it. But for me it's also coupling that awareness with understanding. So this is where the information gap is in our society. A lot of us aren't taught that race, his affection when it comes to biology internet. A lot of us are not taught how it came about a lot of us, our entire its implications in the world. A lot of US citizens on top How these implicit unconscious believed percolate into decision, making that not only prevent many people from getting jobs are being compensated fairly or equitably as other people, but also its super expensive for companies like, for example,
you sure. Disparities in health care on an annual basis cost the EU economy three hundred ten billion dollars. Why? Because what happens is their assumptions that healthcare practitioners Eddie making about the patients which then come back and backing repeat visits over and over again- and I saw some statistics, but african Americans are much less likely to get pain met precisely precisely that. That is Why were actually working on a study around this, but that's from toddlers to senior citizens the level- and this is not just white dog- first, I want to be very clear that a majority of african Americans have an implicit eyes towards african Americans. Fifty five percent- in fact what this was. This was true. This comes out and thirteenth because you who here, in its document rate, it ran on Netflix, which I highly recommend about the american criminal. Just system and a man they serve baked in prejudice against african American
and there is that I'm not sure Sherman and now this correctly, but they talk about the way news covers the african the community's convinces alot of african Americans to be scared of other african Americans. Precisely so, and it's there the myth of criminality rights, are they actually point to the source of this movie, the birth of a nation s and how? myth. That story has really percolated, not just our country but across the world as a result, so that's the associations that, despite being deleterious despite having a wife and a partner and children and children who may be black, my implicit associations, immediately. Go to what I saw the news. What I saw movie and unless I'm able to hack that I am not able to, I recognise and become aware of that and create space between entertainment and news media from real
I'm going to be going to those I autopilot and that, as I am the head of a hospital, if I'm the head of a tech company, that's gonna go into my decision making Sure, but how do you hear me? I've been meditating for a little while, not like forever by eight years. Right am I I m increasing where and ashamed of my biased as becoming when I see it operating, but I feel like I've hacked it and I most people are gonna, do the amount of meditation I do so. How do we? How do you use mindfulness to turn to some measurable effect Heidi White Basis. I think it's such a great question and I think first of all responding to you me and you said that you were ashamed right. Yes, first thing we have to do is we can dress that Shane My favorite teachers in the world is burning brown, who knows a scar
There is a shame scholar. They sell university of taxes and shame prevents us from behavior change, because it already acknowledges that were bad or always gonna be bad, blistered, knowledge, the underlining feelings and immoral and around it, and your own shame is here so not dismissing it with our wise it here because I'm not living up to the promise of my values. I stand for equity. I stand for justice, I stand for being free and Bobby towards other people. But my thoughts aren't but then also giving yourself a break that oh wait. I'm an animal and my brain is up of the environment, the cultural you know living in and have lived in all my life. So it's just repeating to you what I saw those were the inputs. So can I cut myself a slack some slack in Crete? space there are now then, it's time to require less for my fullest comes in
So I go in your right. No one can just practice mindful of the way you you and I do, for example, when we do it, because it there's a host of personal benefits that we get out of it, but I might be more, it's not just my phone has practices which be institute and be hope can become a part of a new company. Culture is whether it's in hospitals or banks, or you know, tech firms or even police means, but also understanding the nature of buyers and how it operates in the rain, understanding the origins of these stories in the assumptions and pinpointing turn up so that it becomes a part of our becoming professionals becoming doctors becoming police officer becoming nurses becoming investment tankers for those decisions, aren't
Those beliefs aren't percolating into what decision. Your training, corporations and institutions on how to combat implicit bias, I would even use the adversarial language as to how to transform a hack it right. I noticed his eyesight combated. we're gonna do somehow I just somehow. I knew there was a problem, so walk me through the moment, then so you're hiring you a new, are hiring and I walk in the door and You take a look at me. And maybe the pre met. station. You would have spent a whole bunch of yarns based on how I present, What I'm wearing what my skin color is, how my hair is combed or not combed or whatever. How has that changed now and how can a change for the rest of us.
That literally the moment of looking at somebody and you too high go for you now you see the stories arising just see them for what they are, or the stories don't come up interesting idea depends on the context, depends on how long I sat in the morning that day depends on if I've eaten or not, but what happens is for the most for me when I'm meeting someone new like oh someone, new o person, and some I mean I use labels. Man, woman looks african american looks latino, but any of those association that might accompany it. They're not there. So african American becomes really loaded culture black in general, but those source. Patients have been able to really decouple them, so I walk in the door. You say: looks white when you're, not thinking We have the whole food. definitely is damn pr whatever you or even if you do think it you're able to see it and not be actor out by a
They only identifiers about. Yes, someone who may look like you're sure you ethnic background, that's what I would say big and an inn So what about for me, then, because I I think, as I said at the beginning, that I do think this is a tower. An issue of towering importance on so many levels. Economic at moral, cultural, societal, but I do they it really seriously, and yet I do I'm aware, probably unaware of so many of these stories that approach laid up. When I see another human being and that I act on unconsciously so and the ten or so what would you recommend? How can I address this writing? First of all, the coolest thing now, which I would teach reading have as human beings.
for like twenty five years ago, is that we can measure implicit bias. I there's something called implicit association test was invented by a few social psychologists up at Harvard and they greatest thing that its literally a two minute matching game were you're. So your basically it's her dual categorization task where there images and positive and negative words that use oats images of black people and white people and positive words and negative word on her, and you just have to match them as quickly as possible and what's happened is that sometimes not sometimes the most of the times when white face is on the same categories: positive words, people, are faster than the Us Association AIDS that I bet this would be a humbling thing for me and many other people to go to her. I would hire encourage everybody to go on line to take the test.
without said when you learn your results, to assume that this means you're, racist or sexist. If you could a gender test or homophobic, if particular take the test, because what its telling you is that these are the deeply seated unconscious associations I it's an implicit association test, so the idea is unites, Peter Drucker famously said, once you can you're, something you can manage it so now we have a way to manage this and you know. Last summer we had been turned from Singapore. This is happy more yeah, yeah and be more by company and she was reasoning. I want to raise their she's happy background chinese ethnic background, so we made or take the idee completely neutral us like possible have yet to meet anybody whose neutral- and there are three to five percent of people like a devout on this test. We meet here, take it three more times neutral, every time cause for her. I was just
I can gain a positive words and positive bucket negative words negative bucket black faces in black bucket white visa than white baggage, which is matching things but her mind wasn't getting confused by, and this is where the second mind from second pounded here might also becomes in this is known as Vader and so we should impact is forcing himself Foundation of Michael. Is that when we talk about the four foundations of my phone is now get naturally suit real Buddhist, an old school caravan Buddhist, so that the Buddha TA, by the Buddha himself, or at least allegedly talk about what are known as the four foundations of life. On this. The first is the body, so you, basically, my fulness of your body, is a great way to get grounded in being aware of what happened, now, the second, when one I could go through all worried about the second, his wits noticed Baden uh, that's the politics, Polly is the ancient in the language in which the Buddha apparently spoke and Vader means feeling tone
Everything that arises, your experience has one of three tastes, pleasant, unpleasant or neutral. So now that I've said that carry out, that's it, that's pretty much had so oftentimes what's happening is because, since the this construct, a race was constructed, an accompanying. The constantly was constructed was that there were stories attached to all these categories, so like a lot of the stories we here in our society, with even with an anti Semitism, for example, their stories attached to being jewish- and these are the stair- would because stereotypes now this is the unpleasant experience of, and that is what is causing the distance, disconnect separation two seemingly identical human beings when it comes to genetics and biodiversity and they're nervous system altogether, and for me it's like, while can we tap into that can be done on that now that we can measure it, and we have all these incredible mindfulness tools we can manage it
living studies done showing that if you mindfulness reduces Impreza tires in from University of Wisconsin, we have a bunch of other studies coming up, so you actually can it can it can help you manage, buy it, and for me it's you know, if not just for the personal performance reason is also for unleashing true human potential. Cuz what's happening is any industry will look at whether it's health care, whether it's law enforcement or the Ritz law firms, whether it's financed there's a massive issue of pipe massive issue of talent, so we're living in a country that forty percent non white, but in all of these companies and numbers of people from those non white communities, is under twenty fifteen percent. What's going on so they're just wasted talent
so we have so many challenges in our world from climate change to poverty, to hunger. You name it, but we are not able to use the vast majority of resources that are stuck in human bodies, which is their brain and their passion. Because of this bias,. It's actually bad for company themselves. I remember IDA my mentor in law. School was a baby. You know burly ta, midwestern, white guy, you know from all forms he was like the prototype of what would be considered a leader. and he was really into chinese law. Food in Chinese. All you want do is like sitting back and be a think tank policy guru on chinese policy, but he told me that every time he was in no any sort of a professional meeting, people were
get him asking for advice. They would assume that he would know the answer assume that he was a leader, for him. Now he wanted to sit in the bag and, like I hate group meetings for this reason, and no. This is the reason why I mean, and with so many studies showing that higher rates of suicides among white man in our country. Why do you? Why do you tie that? I wanted to express its the chorus, the levels of expectation of performance and being a certain way, there's a perfection? being mail in being of a certain ethnic background? Who looks a certain way you in order really live up to your humanity, you have to fit that prototype. It's interesting new framework because I always think about like one of the things everything went in recent years is like as a Male in the society, I think give it not about the expertise,
she's that are loaded on me. Now, I'm not a any with eight. I know you didn't this term, but I don't have a victim mentality about it. I have more room for sure mentality of guilt around how, how can you be good white person now, how can you be part of the solutions that are part of the problem. Given that there have been a lot of people over males over our history, who have done some pretty pernicious thanks, but you the way you re right. There is actually there's a certain. There is no shortage of suffering among white male, because work would cause the returning to buy us on our south. Precisely because there is an expectation mean the opium addiction, that's pretty much spread across our communities. Pervasive anxiety feeling helpless like what is that about, and we put so much pressure on ourselves to perform a certain level without guilt is useful, because guilt means I've done
thing wrong: I'm gonna be better rights, the first after chain, precisely right, but with that sad this, this issue of you know: systemic inequity and inefficiency, isn't just individual its systemic so lot of times it's because of the policies and the practice of the processes that are in place that are creating this problem. So it's like that. I love the sun. It was in this metaphor of others, a village by a river.
And their tongues of, like babies that are drowning in this river. So the villages are really concerned with a start, taking the baby's out one after another, one after another, one after another and a team to be with her. But the flood of babies continue to happen because we cannot allow them to do the best. We can and will just take as many of them out, and I feel like that's a metaphor for society, whether its through the charter school system or you know, prison reform or just taken babies out, but their Sonya, the p babies dying what's causing this in the first place. Let's go there would cause and that where's, you noticed some buyers has been instituted within policies, that's where we have to go to transform those policies and for me, and for my company, be more it's really about reaching leaders at him too, at the institutional level, so probation officer, creature, services, officer, prosecutors, puppet defenders, dangerously teacher,
Doctors, nurses, should add newsman on their yes anchors actors, casting directors, and if you think about our media entertainment note, that really is the window to the world, and how will we see ourselves in imagine yourself, and I wish the others and is not just that- this lack of diversity within our move, these are tv shows its also the representations of the humanity of non white people like I'm not up who I was Europe, who will never be a poor and there's nothing wrong with that, because there's tons of up who's who our Indian, who look like turning, do that. But there is one point: rebellion, Indians at home? I approve of the sums from this instance right, but that's what people that have been exposed to our counterparts who have been exposed to people who look like me, will assume of me so so I know you have accompany you. Dont want to give away all your trade secrets you you offering trick. You offer training to all sorts of folks and professional context, but give us some half
about how we can people listening to the sooner. We can start to explore our own bias and do something about absolutely. Are you from Then we have to do is know where we stand. That's like and taken implicit association test there in and then you can just get this on the internet. You get Google, eighty, eighty or project implicit and there's a bunch of different ass. Someone can take The second hackers really thinking about what are some of one's belief systems about people.
Right, and what is it was when I say that when I see that there is no Jean fairies, what is the resistance there? What is a resistance there? What in your experience, prevents me from believing me in believing the science and third is really listing and being honest with oneself? What were the stories we heard about people who want like us when we were children from people, we love and we still loved them and we will continue loved them. For my parents are past, errors are rabbis. What did they say and how did that influence us and TAT William? Those were the seeds that were planted at a young age. They began to creep Haddest, so that's it. That's all serve assessing what our baseline as decisive, but it's to me that you could do they. I was just thinking as worthless in your target that you might just do a mine
this practice of walking around and everybody who walked by you see what stories you tell yourself based on how they present exactly you on a plane, you see a stewardess, she's, african American one story do tell yourself bright bizarre. I should take flight. Yeah basically What we call it is prison prisoner like these five strategies that have been proven by scientists in mitigating buyers. It stands for prospective taking pro social behaviour, individuation stereotype, replacement, Unmindfulness and are all actually mindfulness based practices, even though it's not all seated meditation. So I will give an example of stereotype, replacement, so what happens when it comes to stereotypes right, like you, certain there's, an African notified it and in whose walking towards us in a male or female, under certain stories that have been created.
the second that arises like oh wow, I know nothing about his person, but stereotype stereotype label it stereotype and replace it with a counter stereotyping example. Therein, then, of a friend or a public figure who you really admire, who happens to be the same ethnic background of that person? You know whether it see no doktor king, someone who's deceased because what's happening in that moment, is that you're not strengthening the neural pathways of the stereotype reaction interrupting it, and for us it's actually helping people do not on a daily basis in meeting our practice that there is a practice which has a great marvellous, bracky summoning walks towards you, you're about you. You see the storytelling yourself ants a you see it be place, it was something more positive bright and unless there
stories about precisely enabling us, such as we do in the mindful of tractors as critical yeah, and you know that I found what we ve been working on this at takes as little as eight weeks of regular practice of these strategies. Tat lies individually. actually but individually, to hack bias. So you ll find when you go into an organization and teach them. You see change. Of course, in it's funny because we it was, there was an attorney. A training priests, senior attorney have watched the government, Who is that you should take us a congress? You should take this too. You know like Hell, be well, but you know one our time comes. The idea is a This information, for me, is as someone is, it was a researcher is like basic, but they never learned. There was to be taught the stuff in high school, but the actually were taught something. How
but there is a hierarchy in there's five types of human beings, and it was those types of decision that went into or supreme court cases. So there is a famous Supreme court decision lovingly virgin. Which I think was a movie about a recently like ass, not removing great movie and so to overturn The law in many states had opposed, Inter Rachel, marriage and joy. Basel, who was the law courts? And if people saw the movie, don't know he wrote in the decision god, Almighty created human beings. You know why black mullay, yellow and read, and but for the interferes with the arrangement. There would be no cause for such marriages. This is an the mean respectable person loves his family, his belief in this fictional story. I was created two hundred years ago by Guy collected Scots from across the world popular into policy, human suffering of
motion where if people want to learn more about you and your organization, how did I do something so just lie? be more America dot org, be more be unworthy, America and the eyes he tottered and also weak. They can find us on social media on Linkedin and Facebook. then further reading, you would recommend we do for Anderson. This absolutely there's three books that come to mind on first, his blind spot by having a green, wild and modern vanity. So these are the pre scholars of unconscious bias and have done a lot of the research Peppino apply in our trainings. The second is history of white people, so it's done by the former head of the american historical society, no Irving, painter, Princeton, Professor, which you will be traces, how this mythology of caucasian is which Can you actually also- to believe in the hospital
fraction more likely just lazy language on my part but anyway. Yes, yes, yes, exactly! What's not your fault, no, shame about it's because you weren't informed about it. So history of white people and third book that comes to mind his own I'm whistling Vivaldi, his backlog, steel, also, social psychologists. Did he talks about how stereotype threat and all these other psychological phenomenon take play? It sounds like there's no great book on using mindfulness combat to work with implicit bias. Not yet right. Not yet that's the book to be written no. Thank you very much. Thank you for agreeing asked me you're if you will get your lot out so thank you very hope. So, thank you, ok, that does it
for another edition of the ten percent happier podcast. If you liked it, please take a minute to subscribe rate us also. If you wanna suggests topics, you think we should cover or guests that we should bring in hit me up on twitter at Danby. Harris importantly, I want to thank the people who produce this paragraph Lauren Efron, Josh cohesion and the rest of the folks here at a b c, who helped make this thing possible. We have tons of other projects. You can check them out at ABC. Pod casts dot com I'll talk to you next Wednesday, there's not a person in America who hasn't been impact it in some way by the corona I was pandemic, but it every community there are pockets of people who were soon
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