Real people, real interviews, I have to say that I strenuously tee a hard hitting questions. What evening about feminism like taking you to the cutting edge of terms will last year is one of the worst movies ever made, and it was very clear that Ryan Johnson doesn't like Storm Kyle poles no punches ask how how you're evil to sleep tonight he's brings own shattering common sense from the top robe defining noble dear you. This is the Babylon Bee Interview Show. All right I'll. Everybody in this is our interview with Mr Mcgill Alexander Miguel. Thank you for joining us thank you it's a privilege to be with you

So I first heard of Mcgill, because I have an obsession with these tv shows. Where are you here? we'll tell her story where they went through some insane? thing where they almost died, and then they lived so then they got to be on a tv show and tell people about it so one of those shows is locked up abroad. About people who generally about people who like do some released stupid like there. Yes, wrap themselves of drugs and then get taken over to know the Gore and like some third country and then get imprisoned for like ten years like do you wanna Gavin Macgregor, you honor Chechnya, and then there's one stand out episode on their about this family Clearly strong, strong christian family? And Sky had held them all hostage, whole story, and I was fascinated by the father in this family. We get Alexander who we now have,

I also say that I had him on whether podcasting they realise that he's not been on a lot of stuff in America. These men on that one show as a national geographic show, which will put the show notes. He did write a book but a story is so cool and an end to such a great em. It's forgiveness, it's about living, your enemy variable. Our anything Mcgill is fascinating. Guy some excited happy on Sir, good. It is going to be beyond measure and we, like your acts in cool. Yeah? I find yours quite cool too, that we get the Hollywood movie STAR accident no effective here. What I sound like to someone with a different x- and I was wondering I also Miguel. I it's it's gonna come sound better coming from here we are with that acts and everything and the effect that you lived it. Can you tell us, In a nutshell, your story What what happened to you

that day in Taiwan and have you any one by one It was time one yes, it was. It was a long time ago. It was some by twenty two years ago. I think it was in ninety ninety eight at the time I was I was a career soldier, And a serving as the military attaching Taiwan, South Africa. That stage recognise Taiwan, s, ear as well as an independent country, that is changed now and we no longer have diplomatic representation they, but it s Adrian embassy they and we had the various people in a normal embassy- and I was they military- attach I've been sent over there to do it. Tour of duty as the military aggression. We were coming to the end of the time, the and South Africa and decided to-

cease recognition of fur of Taiwan, which is known as the Republic of China. And to open up a diplomatic relations with the people's Republic of China, which is on the mainland, come communist China Taiwan is an island. Legal island, quite heavily populated, with a very active and very dynamic industrious population of people It was a fascinating turtle duty to have been there s. The monetary but in the in the last seven months or so that I was there, is something happened had quite a dramatic effect on the whole of the island and the whole of the whole of the country of Taiwan, and that was the day a gang of some thugs

literally terrorizing. The island thy hand had No none, I first of all it is important to understand that in Taiwan is generally a very peaceful society the people there and not not prone to violence- is not a lot of violent crime, A funeral mountains of white collar crime my fraud in and then and that sort of thing, but but violent crime was always all my son hurdle over there. So the people were suddenly shocked to find that this gang of thugs was carrying out all sorts of really violent acts, amongst other things, say and I ve had enough daughter of a prominent tv personality and demand a ransom.

The police got involved. It turned into a very nasty business and in the end she was sir distort a seventeen year. Old daughter was sir, was to end and murdered and and body was done dinner in the ditch, and then on to his own for these people, get the police jumping around from one part of the city of type I to another in searching for them, in the process, the gang of free two of them were actually killed in shootouts with the police. Lest the leader of the gang fellow cogeneration. And they arrested his wife. And tried and sentenced to prison as an accomplice. With the kidnapping case.

He led the newspapers, Nova DE, was completely innocent and that she was completely innocent. She had nothing to do with it. And he demanded that they release or at least retry her fairly, as he said and then he would find himself over now Priorities were obviously not going to negotiate with someone like this. So they just ignore disease. Please in there in the preclude the press write letters to the newspapers and publish these, and this is already communicated to the people He then decided that the only way that he was going to get them to pay attention to him and to accede to ease these damn demands Would be too to kidnap some people and to to force them at gunpoint.

Taiwan is a free society. No one is allowed to own guns. They only the police and the military have firearms. But this doesn't stop the criminals from getting older firearms and He certainly had firearms and what to what even decided was he felt the Taiwanese. The taiwanese police would probably just bursting untrue to everybody if he gave you took over taiwanese people captors then why men kidnapped them or oil them hostage? Jeff, sorry who would they really that? Well, I dont think I'd like to Do you really give my opinion on that? I would say that I think that any any police force would probably be a little more careful if they were dealing with foreigners, particularly by worryingly, the diplomat,

take wilderness the way taiwanese guy and a few countries that actually recognise them, so so He decided he was kidnapped or that he would take some some foreigners hostage and we lived in a part of Taipei where there were a number of expatriates living, mostly business people and so on. And we had a very nice house there in taiwan- masses Opel upwards, not sidewise, because the limited space, so it was several floors. Several stories I am, and the garage was right at the bottom of street level, I came home this evening fairly late. It is about seven o clock at night. And as I drove into the garage I didn't realize that there was a guy in the street watching me.

It actually broken into the house next door to us where there was an american couple living And he dummies reconnaissance of the area beforehand, so he knew they were living there. But really it just so happens when he broke into their house. They were both away in India and the United States. I worry us, then he was out in the street wondering what he should do when he saw my car journeys into the garage in the house next door and he looked at the number plate and the number plate was a diplomatic number plate, so you know I got a foreigner, there's a document that he foreigner take. The document that you can take a hostage. Yes, I had no sooner. Got into the house, greeted my family. My youngest daughter was practicing on the piano.

They won for above we hadn T television, room and my wife and my elder, daughter was twenty two The little chinese baby that we had in costs foster care up on that role Why twelve year old daughter was downstairs, to sing the Vienna. I agree to do on my way up and I went and join the others have set down. Man took the little boy and Honesty Miranda money on and which uttered and this guy came in through the window. As I said, he in turn, Taiwan things are pretty German siphoned is not much to worry about. So, Not now your doors are not always locked, join those enough. You don't bother to close them because its age say it's a very safe countries. Generally, He came through the window. I told my youngest daughter up at gunpoint,

monster up the stairs, and when I looked again I saw this man coming up the stairs with a pistol with the hammock. And the barrel held against my daughter's temple. And I M His finger resting on the trigger Actually, we pause right there and that moment cause you so now This guy, who is like a monster whose men in the news I think you said that the listen, there's a tv personality, his daughter was kidnapped. I ask you in sending in the ran in the process of the ransom they actually mail the finger, something very dramatic and gross. Gee alien actually took to confirm to the to the mother half a tea, personality that they had her daughter back cut a little finger off centre to with the ransom them on.

And so this must have been Oliver than media. In the area it was it was, it was e g, the most important news item, the ass yeah for literally for months here they were. They were people over Taiwan. That reporting seeing him. If anybody spoke of him having been seen in an area where the the proper, in prices would would permit where people were terrified, then didn't know what to do next. And a win win. The whole thing was over. He was actually found guilty full moon is twenty rights, and and I Innumerable crimes is of larceny fur. Two of them Orson of all, sir,

a starship unanimity and you, as you over to where he was EU, is really a bad guy is slower than I am forest. So what I want to set up right here now is that he he's walking into your house then who are you guys? Who is the main the family presuming I found fasting, you guys and you are an area of uses the EU have, strong faith, we were you. We are Christians. I was so I was the term but the age of twenty one. My wife much younger than that we were both members the church when we met at the same church and we eventually got married and We brought our children up as Christians. We,

Practicing Christians, we try to exercises, are our faith in Jesus Christ is our Saviour in in the way that we live. Our lives having been a mature? My life is not always so easy required. A fair amount of sir of effort on my brought to her to me time the lifestyle with term the dice The Lord would want me to follow finally, a harsh and and unforgiving environment, such as as a military, We were also involved in Asia. In a war for most of my career, so there were many times winner, When I found myself in in very dangerous, very difficult situations and and commanding troops. I was in the borough troops I had in come on

commanded a parachute platoon later a company in my career commanding a parachute brigade and for most of the common positions that I was at the dye held. I I was involved in operations. So there were many occasions many opportunities to to practice my face to put my fate. To the test to rely on the Lord And- and and to encourage my soldiers along those lines, and when this happened to us in Taiwan, My first resort was to turn to the Lord and really, as I explained to you, the situation where such the knife she didn't have any other option gases. Jump back re back in

Obviously I would suggest I'll know. Talks are now I'm usually the guy who throws jokes in so you know, that's not there's no time it's not appropriate Renault. Nobody did. I just got to say you know putting myself than those shoes I mean, I'm already getting upset. You know I'm getting angry tasted, the area, somebody putting a gun to your getters in its latest reaction is like. I would kill you know next month, That's my thought. You know, and I know that we're gonna talk a lot about forgiveness instead, so I'm just trying to kind of get myself in that, but that context there what's going to happen, I see that, like I can't even imagine, Well, I think that the United, important at this point to two, give you some idea of the other. The overwhelming. The feeling that I experienced at that point.

My training with such as a paratrooper, that I have been trying to disarm people. I've been trying to kill people and I ve been trying to do so with my bands. If necessary. No, I had the opportunity, but This man had a pistol and it was a pistol. Nine millimeter Barretta identical to my service pistol back in South Africa, we have always got to his fingers on the trigger and The book the bearer, was held against the side of my daughter's hit. I told your own daughter I could probably have killed him. Before he killed me. But I very much doubt whether I would have been able to do anything before each of my daughter.

Ram and there's a second if I had to make a decision at that point, going to try to disarm this man and Chilean, Or am I going to do as he tells me, he thought sense of handcuffs out of his pocket any To me to turn around and put my hands together, I knew that this was the one times that I had to do something. I also knew that somebody was going to die and the chances are That would be my daughter. So I made my decision then. I turned round and put viands together. And got me Meantime my feet up my ankles, And told them together and then it And I thought of my family, everyone in my family When you go to my wife, she was holding a little boy.

Baby of six months, seven months of age. She looked. We wanted to take her hands and tie them together. She looked at him. And she said no. Then she held the baby. And it gonna tense moments that button in the air In those few minutes he looked at her and he realized tat if he doesn't. Do what she says The baby is gonna becoming problem. So what does he do? Does he killed a baby? so he decided but he would leave our hands untidy tied, ankles together, but further Steve Titus time just died and causing Lufthansa and untidy Thrace and my family, my eldest daughter, my son,

and my youngest daughter, we were all dressed up like care like chickens. We could do nothing, he began funding, He found the in the police, and he told him where he was. And he told them what is demands way wanted them to. On television publicly say that you and I we were going to retry his wife and he was going to if he did. I didn't do that he was going to kill the whole family. Even Turn to- and he said, wants us to phone the international press. And he spoke almost no English. Our own mandarin was very limited, but IE knew the word CNN, and so he,

We said CNN well white worldwide. They wanted as much publicity as possible of what he was doing. He wanted to make it as difficult as possible for the authorities. My eldest daughter was seeing an american student was doing an internship with her. An english language newspaper in Taiwan, and so life. Is they do her phone Michael? and tell him. This guy wants this to Once this publicity, the CIS exposure to the international press she managed to get hold of him You said it wouldn't believe him when he told there will be more to getting on the police, wouldn't believe this guy when he said he had us taking us hostage, and eventually the sum somebody in the press.

Tat the story and next to no time they were dozens of reporters outside our house, The police eventually realised that there was something going on so then the police came the police. Fellow and a second, the television stations in Taiwan or when they realise that this man was sir, not quantity in this house that he taken foreignness hostage by nothing. There were three or four. Television stations in Taiwan by all stop their normal shed. Your broad brought broadcasts, And I broadcast live they had. The report is outside the house in my broadcast live. What was going on And everybody in Taiwan was glued to the television screens watching what, happening around Ass house. Me the police, adamant of an altercation with him.

Because of the police were not one again for something like this. By Dint of authority. May I just said normal policemen and in a very short time, man, something like wondered: policemen around ass, well, and probably double the number of of media people It will all groaning and then they were the pub publicly. Come to come and watched this guy get shot an answer. The street was crawling with people The taiwanese police had a strange system, I don't know if I still have it, but they had a strange system, a bounty system, if it is a criminal had been identified some way why? Having done something wrong there place about journeys it. I would The policeman captured him or shot. You would get the promotion and a cash bonus.

And with this kind of promotion and the gas bone of cash bonus were were pretty good because he was such a well known and such an intelligent man an awful side so am I every police and wanted to kill him Is there any kind of penalty fer? You know shooting there person than them in the process Well, I don't know, I don't think they which concerned about that the judge, judging by what happened subsequently, because Eventually they came so close to the to the door and they were taunting him and he was yelling at them. He trust us up, indeed, barricaded stairs going up, I'm going down but off all the lights in the place but outside in the street, they were lights and he could see the shadows through the windows of these people moving. And he kept warning them to cure cheaply distance. And they were laughing a demon during a dream and trying to talk to him to show himself, so they could shoot him.

And eventually decided that they were getting too close. So you fired a shot through the window. At the shutters do so outside and there was silence for maybe two seconds in the police, opened up with everything that I had nine hundred lad. X version of the M16 rifle lad. I think, it's I or fifteen to us today, the day they had the stalls, they add some machine guns and Ireland, with absolutely everything. Every window in our ass was shattered The door was was was riddled with bullet holes pictures on the walls were shocked at the chandelier was shattered.

I had a bank of cds, music cds too. It was riddled with bullets. Lindsey. These will ruin. The furniture was scattered all over the place. It looked like a battlefield. Well, so how how long a head has been going on at this point. Well, I e There were three distinct gun, but also to pleasant, and each one probably only lost for a few minutes each one, but during that time there was a tremendous amount of shooting going on. The sky had three pistols IE is pockets were bulging. The munition he had and numerous, A magazine is forty, four, the pistols, the pistols was an austrian block. Which can be fired on full automatic,

and he had do city to round magazines which he used on this pistol. So then it was like a small sum machine gun that he was firing at times He was. He was a train marine. So he knew what he was doing. At the moment the shooting would subside day he would get us in. One of these days is magazines and replace it with a full magazine and anyone reload the other magazine, so that he always had ammunition available and with a free. This was that he was using. He was able to mine Tyler pretty, if right to fire. Women Eventually, the whole thing was over and the police came into the house, and I started searching for evidence in clearing up the place. They found a hundred and sixty. Empty cartridges, cartridge cases

some of these curious, and you know this is other really minor done, but curious, cuz, you will these people are shooting. Shooting guns in right right around each other, but one I've done shooting Foods are gone and you know have your plugs in their hearts. So really hurts it's really, let's really loud and clear in a little room, I can imagine what is it Fact, on your hearing, or just done in their moment or even, is there any lasting effect? I just can't imagine the loudness of that It was deafening. It was absolutely deafening and what What what made it worse was it as soon as the shooting started. He grabbed my my eldest daughter The twenty two year old who is very, to the young lady, fuller in front of him as a shield. And he was firing and ass? He was firing with these as youth, so

They said the? U large reports from the gunshots. Cartridges. It were being ejected from the one pistol waiting in the face. When I read your hand and they're gonna write by her head, I mean it's gonna be right, right, she was understandably quite circle in the name of under those circumstances, I was pleading with him to let her go and do rather take me. The Chinese are generally small people. One day she was a light. Young go easy to move around, I was a much bigger person It would have been more difficult for him to to move around. And holding me in front of him besides, which were distinctly distrustful of me, and I know what I am trying to do. So I did it was. It was not a good situation.

When the shooting started. We em Why won't my people, my my family, that if they was shooting- and I could see that there was going to be shooting, they should all fall flat on the ground and light keepers this possible, which they did. The bullets were flying around all over the place. He eventually after the second exchange of gunfire. I eventually persuaded him to take me rather than my my daughter said he d job, my daughter. She fell under the ground and called out under the table, And he took me and he held me on a couch. A he could lean over a pair to look down on the law of the floor

and cover the stairs coming up from non below and then Then I heard the police entering the garage down below three penetrated ass They are now in a swat team that they were using and I yelled loud me of them- do not come up because he was gonna kill us. Tell they didn't, listen or they. I didn't understand me, because coming and Next thing is they came running up the stairs? What I didn't realize is, as I came round the corner, they ran right into the barricade that he put it and ass. They came round the corner. They had done proof of this sun bulletproof face mosques, ledge bulletproof shields that they were carrying and ass. They came round the corner with the firearms he opened up with the solar energy and, in his right hand and then

and lifted their backers leant against my head, the police, when he saw how many police were trying to come up, be decided. He needed to bring about more fire to bear on. So you up still away from my head the din, but the first time he pulled? The trigger was a little too soon and the bullet went through my knee and into my daughter's back through arrests and into her back? the intensity of fire. That search was was unbelievable and Egypt the police back and they were treated and went out of ass. Again, even realise that he had to wounded people, and they didn't want to say to that Sir, your none of them that they must send a doctor.

To add each of these people there, doktor around but the a very brave policeman new is the man in charge of the investigation is subsequently went on to become the chief of Taiwan's police. A man called how you ye, Any time through the wood broken window and came running up the says with his hands in the air Benny a recent on modern This guy searched him and then he said: ok you can You can take an visitors, got those guys back down, but not Thea. The girl she's, not badly, that he was right of course she was far more valuable than I was, but in the sky. Grabbed me and trying to carry me always stoop to everything. So he dragged me down this is

and abandoned me out to the people outside. At that stage I was barely conscious, My wing shot me. I realise that I'd I'd I'd been shot to, of course, but sir I couldn't see anything in the dark. My eyes were still tied behind my back my own, Ngos were tied together, and I Why my foot sliding around on the groups swollen I tried to move it then I realized. Did the forceful of blood My concern was that I was going to bleed to death, so my I called my wife and she crawled across. Therefore, to me: and I said you got a strong stopped. The bleeding associate the round and she I still have my necktie on so she under then pull metals and tired. It my money the tuna guy stop the bleeding

but I was, I was sort of off in an all out at that stage, and this guy dragged me downstairs and pass me through the window. And then he went back up again to fetch. My daughter and my daughter was served was also tied up and he didn't realize that she'd been shot through the rest and he tried to pull me hands apart and she was just about going through the roof in agony when she, when he pulled earth trying to break their stay, a cable ties that he put around here Andrews, anyway. He carried it on despite the snow, they. The gangsters produce she carried it out and brought her out, and then the gangster said to him. Why don't you come up here again? I'm gonna shoot you

I didn't know that I was outside, but when I looked again I saw my daughter had come out and I thought well now it's over these, this guy surrendered and we all coming out but the street was Joe Factories are packed people that they couldn't get us through an ambulance, and I suddenly realized tat. My wife was still aptly and my youngest daughter was still up. They and the baby was still up. They Am I wouldn't coming out basically lost it. Then I just, so the journey that they put me on. Try and get some order into what was going on and started yelling at the people. But as soon as I got under my feet, my leg collapse under me and I went down as if I in politics- and they me up and Put- back on the journey, and I realized I was just told to start the there was nothing I could do

I I couldn't get any order into the situation I couldn't go in you I couldn't move, I can do anything and they eventually managed to process through the crowds and get us into the air, the ambulance and like us to hospital, but my wife and my youngest daughter and the baby stayed with the sky for all night. The taiwanese cabinet had been called because it was a diplomatic issue not become an international issue because you, a diplomat and me cabinet gave orders that there was to be no more shooting. So a period of negotiations is entered into. This guy is spent tonight mainly on the phone to television stations. And who is discussion with the people on the television station were being broadcast all over Taiwan

and he was telling them what is demands were and what he wanted to do and telling about his family and and all sorts of other things when you think of that, from an ethical ethical perspective than the media, giving him a platform in a voice like that. Well, die out or make things worse. Do you think, it is difficult to say, but I would say that in a sense it term It made things worse from the point of view of. That's. The deal was getting a degree of, Buffy and he was getting his story across and and and address, probably not a good thing- but at the same time, just calm down

He was no longer in that a frame of mind where he would happily have shot my wife and my daughter and the baby. At the slightest provocation yeah so You know that there are their own pros and cons as they are within any negotiation situation and any hostage situation and going to say that one set of circumstances, all events would be better than another. I think what is important is that this man, he spoke to the media, he said to them, I dont understand what it is People are doing ever since I ve taken them hostage. They ve been praying brain brain. And I knew I praying to, and I don't know what I pray, but they don't stop pray. In essence, it was true

I said to my family the tied up. I said there was no there's nothing. We can do we better alone. Jesus, not we confirmation on ourselves. Gone rely on anything else. We don't know what the police are going to do. You ve gotta just pray and we did and we prides long and hard and Prior to the point where I really didn't know what pray anymore, air. We would eventually praying in tongues, but even then Who is nothing seemed to be happening. That was going to resolve the situation and then when the final shooting. Just before I started In fact, it was the second time the shooting there she she exchange or shots, took place I really didn't know what else to do so. I began to recite the twenty third son. The more does my shepherd

and my family began to follow suit. And we all did this and, as we were doing this, did. When I reached that point. Where I said yea, though, I walk through the valley of the shadow of death,. I suddenly realized that's exactly what were you doing? We are English, the valley of the shadow of death, and I but surge of emotion inside of me, I didn't move Why dont you handle it, but suddenly, at that point the shooting stopped. And there was a low in so Just kept brain and, of course, the crisis came to a head. When police penetrated ass envy. The finally change took place when we were both both short, my daughter myself, Am I my youngest daughter, also during the night, while he was talking on the telephone.

She couldn't sleep and she took a piece of paper and drew a hot on it, and she wrote a little brown it asking the law to. Please ensure that we all get out of this alive and this I took a piece of paper and described it to the people, over the over the television. So you know there was somehow in the midst of all of this. There was witness going out, of Jesus Christ and that that was that was in itself quite amazing. In any case, what happened was the need, the next day professional negotiators came in and they started doing proper negotiating with the men and eventually released the baby, and later he released my youngest daughter.

And eventually after twenty six hours in total, he finally surrendered and when he surrendered, my wife came out with him as well. I was watching all of this on television, where I was sitting in the old, were lying in the ward in hospital and it was. It was quite a stressful time I bet the remainder is medieval surrendered. They did agree to rejoin his wife, which they did. And he was trying to himself over a period of two years, a number of tries to try atrocity. I went to the jury should we were attending over there. The people in the church came to because I have been praying for us one of the one of them You can see from the church, found me about a meeting which was supposed to take place the next night

and this guy sky held the fund to my ear, because whenever you heard that there somebody speaking English in the phone, you wanted me to tell him what was going on so he can get more publicity and he held the phone to my ear- and this guy said to me what's going on, and I say: look this, sir: we ve been taken hostage and- and this guy's got these a month and When he heard the story, he immediately contacted the faster the church. Should we attended and the church was consisting mainly of expatriates people who came from New Zealand, Australia, the United States, the UK South Africa. The India, Austria all over the place. So all these Christians defined by the Porsche I turn now to find their families and friends in their countries My wife was sitting may while the negotiations were going on and she was sending emails to.

People that we knew we were all over the world and back in South Africa literally news uprear chain going on for us around the world and that bridge I led started within an hour of us being taken hostage. That's not symmetrical in itself as well. So you know we founded that after this, the church said to us that they felt that we should course. This man knew my wife now reasonably well. We ve spent twenty six hours recur and change played a vital role in coming down and in getting him to do to get it the negotiations, but he felt The issue should just share the gospel with it and so we arranged through one of the ambassadors, who is a member of the church do to see him

Courtiers, we are only given five minutes, So how are that year after the incident? Was this Now. Imagine imagine immediately after the incident you have to be going from. Do some emotion. Is it Probably two weeks after my now to do two to three weeks after the incident, because it took place on my wife's fiftieth birthday And we went to the court when he was your day. He came down being was brought down with gods all around him chained and shackled Odin. Tanking down over the whole way. And we went up to him and my wife gave him a chinese Bible and dress, and a cake which one of the people in the church bite for him and after gods immediately to get away because they were concerned. The ILO summing,

and we see doing look we want you to know that We have forgiven you for what you did to us we want you to know that you need to ask Christ to come into your life and to forgive you. And you need to understand understood this was a buddhist country and aware could reincarnation was generally accepted? and when they were many gods- and we said to him, but my State through an interpreter that we had with as the south african missionary you, we knew very well you. You need to know that there is only one God. And that there is only this life and you only have the chance to get to know that good. And to make a decision, our praise that you will make that decision.

And she gave him a Bible and attracts, and then they save time is up, you gotta go, and so we left.

Coming up next for Babylon, be subscribers. People were coming to limp, saying, please this Jesus December we keep talking about, and how is it possible that these so this family can forgive? What would you say that the gospel in Europe from the gospel you're reading price was the only possible way that you would have found any power to forgive this man, and I have to say, I again became aware, I Emerson and I'm safe by grace, enjoying this hard hitting interview become of Babylon. These subscriber to hear the rest of this conversation. Go to Babylon, be dot com, slash plans for full length, freefall, gas, Kyle and Ethan. I would like to thank Seth Dylan for paying bills import for creating their job, the other writers, sport tirelessly pitching headlines subscribers until next time. This is Davy, Andrea Voice of Babylon.

So I am Kyle and the editor in chief of the Babylonian you already know, Ethan. Is that the one of the drugs trade? owned.