Behind the curtain of an internet blackout, the Islamic Republic’s security forces have killed at least 180 unarmed protesters.
Natalie Kitroeff speaks to Farnaz Fassihi about Iran’s deadliest political unrest in decades and why the United States wanted that unrest — and has helped fuel it.
Guest: Farnaz Fassihi, a reporter covering Iran for The New York Times, in conversation with Natalie Kitroeff. For more information on today’s episode, visit nytimes.com/thedaily.
Background reading:
- How a peaceful protest over fuel prices quickly evolved into nationwide demonstrations against the Islamic Republic and its leaders, unrest which scores of people would not survive.
- After the United States condemned the extrajudicial killings, Iran pointed to the rebuke as evidence that the demonstrations were backed by Western enemies.
This is an unofficial transcript meant for reference. Accuracy is not guaranteed.
From the New York Times unworkable borrow this Israel. Today, IRAN is experiencing its deadliest political unrest in over four years, with nearly two hundred people killed. My government forces in the last few weeks Natalie,
it speaks to foreigners fussy about why the United States wanted that unrest and has helped fuel it. It's Tuesday December foreigners. Take me back to the beginning of the recent opera.
Hanging around how did it start on Friday November 15th? This is about sixteen minutes before midnight it a long time. I was busy reporting another story on IRAN that we plan to launch and I started receiving text messages and emails
From my contacts in IRAN from my family members from friends and from sources asking me
if I had heard anything about gas prices going up by almost three hundred percent. As of midnight p,
we were very alarmed. They were shocked. They thought that this can't be. This is a rumour. How could they increase prices without telling us? How can we afford to go to work? How can we afford to buy basic goods if gas prices triple in price? There was a lot
anxiety almost immediately and other news authorities in IRAN abruptly raise the price of fuel in the country by fifty percent overnight Iranian wake up the next morning. They see official announcement in the news media onstage tv that this is in fact not a rumour. I hadn't heard the news. I came here and filled three leases and they don't notice. The price was ninety thousand reels. It resulted in long lines of cars, waiting for hours, a petrol stations in the capital that IRAN and they start to pay
Motorists feared the consequences will be far reaching IRAN in Tehran and the rest of IRAN. Everything is dependent on fuel crisis if the price of fuel goes up in the night I day, the price of rent will go up as well as other living expenses. They start messaging each other on what sap groups posting things on social media, saying people. Let's protest this, let's get to the streets.
And show them that were angry at this mobile phone. Video out of western IRAN shows people chanting. Fuel prices go higher. The poor get poorer on
I d by noon. People on
he's your highways in Tehran and other big cities had park their cars and created a massive traffic jam and turned off their cars. First
miles and miles and miles while a near the border with the rock. They repeat. Turn your car off. Looking traffic
and people were gathering at gas stations and putting roadblocks on gas stations and preventing other motorists from filling up their tax as a way to protest
and in the first twenty four hours the protests were really peaceful. People were coming out, they were just voicing their concern. There was being were angry, listen to us by Saturday November. Sixteen the protests were gaining steam.
They were changing in nature. There are videos of nighttime protests where demonstrators have gone out into the street and our chanting and he regimes slogans. They quickly shifted from being protest about gas crisis and the economy to targeting the entire establishment of the Islamic Republic. There were people in the street saying death to harmonise the Supreme leader death. A dictator or government buildings have been set on fire as well as banks. There were reports of banks getting
torch than government buildings being attacked. So for the moment there does seem to be a lot of momentum behind all of this, but the iranian government does have a tendency to violently crackdown on these kinds of protests, as the protest spread, we started noticing
that there was a disruption and our communications with IRAN. I had a really
our time, calling forces on their cell phones, they mobile service was disrupted. I kept sending text messages,
and it would be back speck on by Sunday the entire country went dark, they unplug the internet. So what do you do as a report
who's trying to cover this country from the outside how'd? You get around this to figure out. What's going on, it was very challenging. I wanted to
all sources on their landlines or on their mobile service. But I was worried that if I do, those costs could be intercepted and they could get in trouble. I tried to call my relatives and people that I thought would talk to me and they were terrified. They would say. Nothing's going on. Everything is fine, how's the weather and try to change the subject, because they thought that these cause might be monitored. We tried
You a monitor the videos that were trickling out, but if there were a protest and thousands of cities in IRAN, we were
may be less than a dozen videos or eyewitness accounts a day, but we could quickly tell them
things were getting more and more violent and then what happens then slowly. Internet and mobile service is restored and the first accounts that we start getting our from local journalists who have access to the internet when they come to work and they ve gathered reporting data and videos than eyewitness accounts. They are banned from publishing and they start to leak it out. They start to posted on social media. They start contacting. Report is like me, whom they know and trust and sharing these things so as the curtain lifts
on IRAN, we are able to see the scope of this is ass to her and the violence. And so what do we learn about? What happened? We learned that, in a space of seventy two hours, IRAN turned off the lights and open fire at civilian protest.
We're on arms. We see shocking videos of dead bodies,
up on the street security forces chasing down on armed protestors, who were throwing rocks and opening machine gun fire on them and people dropping dead. We see close up assassinations,
I'll shooting where the police force with mock up to a young man and point the gun to their head and just pull the trigger? We start seeing videos of
this one particular young man that I will name for your back thirty, a twenty three year old engineer
who is filming his last hours of life,
Well, I thought I'd find supine one another ass one could learn a lot about this.
That is going around in the protest he's saying I
an engineer I am unemployed, I'm coming out because I'm fed up with this system I'm coming out, because I'm so happy to see that everybody is supporting us and then it sunsets, and he turns the camera to the sunset and says you I'm looking for
media to new about mandatory wrong. Look at this beautiful sunsets. I wish for a new dawn for my country and a few hours later shot and killed
and how many more are there like him who were killed so many more
there are so many more young men who were killed: young women, even children, the death toll
ranges somewhere from hundred and eighty two four hundred and fifty and continues to climb as more cities and more people get,
access to the internet and have a way of reaching out until their stories we found out
the city of Marcia on Friday, just as internet went up
The revolutionary guards came in a big force and started shooting indiscriminately
dozens of young men who had blocked the main entry way to the city unto an industrial complex. Some
them drop dead. The others around when you are by and large power and one person was armed. They shot at the revolutionary guards from the marshes, the guards, encircled them and with machine gunfire open.
Fire on them and the estimated that between forty two hundred people were killed in that national
incidents, furnace hope me understand how a hike in gas prices caused all of this unrest. There was a lot of pent up anger and frustration over a host of things, from financial corruption to unemployment, inflation. The government's tells people how to address how to think what to do where to go and the sudden surprise price increasing gasoline was really the last straw. Gasoline is very cheap in IRAN, because IRAN is a major oil producing country and gas prices are subsidized,
I will micro economy had formed around this cheap gasoline prices, where people used their cars and their motorcycles to compensate for the fact that they couldn't find jobs. A lot of college graduates are goober drivers alone,
young men are messengers on motorcycles. They can't now afford to buy cheap gasoline to put in their cars and have a business or make a livelihood. The prices of basic goods like bread day we need everything, has increased by at least twenty percent, because transportation costs of increased and on top of waking up to the reality that gasoline prices have tripled and their purchasing
powers have shrunk. The iranian people have been struggling with the pressures of american sanctions on their economy. What is the role of the? U S? And U S: sanctions in all of this euro sanctions play a pretty significant role in IRAN's economy. Different you, as administrations, have imposed sanctions on IRAN in order to squeeze and pressure its economy. The two thousand and fifteen nuclear deal between IRAN and the world powers lifted those sanctions and abroad and a lot of hope and allow.
Of investments when foreign companies and a lot of job possibilities for Europeans and then President Trump comes in fire Malone sitting today that the United States will withdraw from the iranian Nuclear Deal, he exits the nuclear deal and suddenly, all of that hold all of those financial possibilities, country house, we will be instituting the high
this level of economic sanctions and immediately we start seeing significant impact on the currency, on IRAN's ability to do trade and suddenly the government's facing a massive budget deficit and the stated goal
these more punishing sanctions is to bring IRAN to the negotiating table in a more serious way right, while that's the stated goal,
but all along there's been also an unstated goal and policy which is hoping that these punishing sanctions would pressure iranian ends to rise up against the regime, to start pushing the government to have no choice but to come to the table and discuss a more comprehensive deal, because not only is it facing international pressure
like the sanctions are destabilizing the society in IRAN as well. So in a sense, the Trump administration wanted this uprising to happen all along. Yes, U S. Officials have embraced these
tests. The special envoy of IRAN, Brian Hook, given
review and said. We are very pleased to see the protests across IRAN Lion hooks
men were unusual because, typically, when there is unrest and protests in countries the response from senior- U S, officials is that were watching.
What's happening where monitoring what's happening, we support the people, but you
rarely see then putting themselves at the front and centre of these protests by saying were very pleased. Even secretary of state, my palm pale tweeted that he has asked iranian protesters to communicate with him and send him video footage of the violence against them. We received today nearly twenty thousand messages: video pictures notes of the regimes abuses through telegram messaging services. I hope they will continue to be sent to us. So if the unstated goal of these sanctions was
the causes of this unrest. Then they worked. But what about the second part? The death of the protesters? How much was the violence that followed part of the plan
the responsibility of the violence on protesters solely
calls on the government of IRAN because, at the end of the day there are the one
then ordered their security forces to
and use lethal force against civilians.
An understanding of IRAN's modern history, would tell you that if there is a popular uprising, the government would crackdown and crush it very quickly and with a lot of forces, we'll be right back. This path cast is supported by a trade trading, isn't for everyone, but he trade is whether at saving for a rainy day or your tyrant, a trade has you covered. They can help you check financial calls, I feel less and with a team of professionals giving you support. When you need it, you can be confident that your money is working hard for you
more than just trading with e trade to get started, visit each dot com, such podcast for more information. Each trade, securities, LLC member fin raw as Ipc, I'm Wendy Door, and I'm an editor on the daily for most
my adult life. I thought of the New York Times as a giant
news machine that spit out news stories all day, long kind of like a vending machine and
embarrassed to say that it wasn't really until I came to work here at the times that I started to think about the reporters behind those news stories and what it takes to get the story in the first place, sometimes,
reporters risked their lives. Sometimes they talk to
two in the morning, sometimes they call us from a war zone and nodded
Do they tell us what's happening on the ground wherever they are, but they also give us the context that we need to understand it. If you like hearing from these
orders every day which I know I do. The work
One thing that you can do to support them and the daily is to subscribe to the New York Times if you'd like to do that, go to and why times dot com. Slash subscribe.
For us. What is the precedent in IRAN for this kind of violent response to a citizen uprising? Unfortunately, there is a history of
iranian rulers, crushing citizen uprisings, violently the crowds found the router Jolly Square,
locked by troops in nineteen. Seventy eight as their numbers increased they pressed forward and the troops opened fire. The shine IRAN was opened fire at protesters at a peaceful, sit in and killed. Eighty four people erected that sparked the beginning of the end for him. When I saw the shop shortly off, it was the first time I really felt the tv show that the situation is arising, that you couldn't.
January of nineteen. Seventy nine- it was clear, the shark could no longer rain and the resolution and nineteen seventy nine that brought the Islamic Republic
our the new government promised that it would abandon the ways of the shop and create a free society where criticism was tolerated in public discourse and debates would be free and what we ve seen is the exact opposite
The pursuit of a nation wide uprising happened in two thousand and nine in response to a contested presidential election, tens of thousands of opposition supporters, mostly young March, to Freedom Square Iranian, took to the streets asking for recounted the votes and staged peaceful protests all over the country, violence on the streets of telephone and their government crackdown bloodshed in the streets of IRAN, at least seven people are reported to have been shot and killed after a mass rally over charges of election fraud and over a period of ten months, killed about seventy two people so, based on this history, the? U S could have predicted that an uprising
what would result in violence, but the level of violence we saw was unprecedented. Nobody could have predicted this right, so the situation in IRAN is spiralling its becoming more extreme than anyone thought it would be, and I'm wondering what does that mean for the? U S strategy. Does this outcome constitute a success? I think the? U S, administrations trying to portray the events of the past few weeks as a success, because its harsh policies on IRAN are resulting in a popular uprising, but if the ultimate goal,
is to bring IRAN leaders the negotiating table. That policy might have actually backfired the? U S by aligning itself with the iranian people, has given.
The iranian leadership ammunition to DE lidded a miser, the demands of the people. What do you mean by that? While on the surface, it looks as if the comments by Mr Work and Secretary upon PEO will help the iranian people, because it shows that the Eu S administration stand in solidarity with their demands, but it also plays directly into the playbook of the iranian regime, which takes all sorts of comments by the american administration and Westerners as proof that the uprising is not home grown that the demands of the popular
Sharon are not legitimate and they are being staged and instigated by Washington. So, ultimately it sounds like the. U S, strategy may end up under cutting the power of these protests. Correct
It also undermines the ability
president raw honey
considered a moderate in the political structure of IRAN to negotiate with the? U S and to come to the table with Mr Tramp, the majority of people who handed Romania victory are talking about setting out the elections there talking about boycotting the elections so.
The centrist than the reformers. If the public doesn't vote, then the hardliners are going to win and we're going to see a hardening of policies in IRAN, particularly about engagement with the United States, so wild,
goal was to bring the iranian government to the negotiating table. This may end with a government that more.
Extreme and more anti West. That was always the fear with their tromp administrations, maximum pressure policy that would actually empower the very factions that Washington does not want to see in power.
Foreigners what happens next for the iranian people, iranian people are terrified right now they are coming to terms
arms with a new level of force being used against them. The cities and
neighborhoods, where there was an uprising very much feel like security zone, we hearing of security forces going door to door
in some areas where women were cooking for protesters on arresting those women, students are being adopted on college campuses,
There was an incident where the militia hidden five ambulances and went to the campus of Tehran University in disguise and
rounded up students, shoved them in the ambulances and drove out
Nobody knows where they are. The protests have been crushed, there's no more uprising, but this arrests and feeling of repression,
is still very much alive. The underlying reasons for this are rising have not been resolved, and we can expect that the next time there is the equivalent of a gas price increase or a political decision, not not popular with the public. It would also spark another round of uprising.
And the next wave would likely be a lot more violence and the crackdown alot more brutal furnace. Thank you so much. Thank you very much for having me we'll be right back.
The last thing you want to do in your second track across the city. Looking for a doctor, thankfully, with one medical, you can video chat a health care provider whenever, wherever even if that's at three, I am from your car,
You can chat with them as often as you like at no additional cost one medical.
Also offers same to your next day, appointments at more than seventy five conveniently located offices nationwide. So if you like, the idea of hassle free primary care visit, one medical dot com to become a member here is what else you need to undertake. On Monday, president Tromp said he would impose tariffs on steel, aluminium from Brazil and Argentina, a move that would destroy previous agreements with both countries, damage their economies and widen a global trade war.
In a tweet announcing the tariffs, Trump accused Brazil and Argentina of manipulating their currencies in a way that hurts american farmers a clean that both economists and government officials have reject? The decision appeared to surprise leaders of both countries, especially resumes new present J year, both in our who has tried to establish close ties with tromp, both in our own appeared to learn of the tariffs from a reporter
read him trumps, tweet, volatile, organic,
that's it. I'm likeable borrow Seymour.
This episode of the daily is supported by the new Showtime original series- penny dreadful city of angels when a gruesome
are shocks. Nineteen. Thirty. Eight LOS Angeles detected Tioga Vega, his partner Louis mentioned, or find themselves grappling with nazi spies, crooked politicians and powerful supernatural forces Natalie D
Daniel of Otto Nathan Lane STAR in penny, dreadful city of angels, preparing April twenty six. Only on Showtime, the daily listeners contrive Showtime free for thirty days, go to
timed dot com now and intricate daily offer expires, may twenty fourth, twenty twenty
Transcript generated on 2020-04-23.