From the New York Times, I'm likeable borrow this is a daily. Today, President Trump has now secured the support he needs from Senate Republic to swiftly confirmed a replacement for justice booth, better Ginsburg, honest in court all, but assuring that he will cement its conservative majority conversation with the anti abortion activist, whose unlikely partnership with president help bring the court to this moment it's Wednesday September. Twenty third.

Hey how orients Michael Barbara hello, Michael it's great to meet you very nice to meet you and thank you for making time for us. Well, I'm very grateful and looking forward to it. Really I have you knock, I haven't not. Everybody looks forward to conversations with journalists up. I do it's actually one of the things I like that, asked I'm I'm not kidding around related well, were grateful for your time and I want to start with the difficult when there during question of asking you how to pronounce your last name. It's Dan and fell. Sir Dinadan fell Sir Is it ok, faculty Marjorie? Of course? Yes, so much the reason we wanted to talk to you and talk to you right now. Because you lead an organization, the Susan, the Anthony less, that seeks to end abortion in the United States in part by electing lawmakers who oppose abortion and in part by confirming conservative justice, the federal bench and ultimately to the Supreme Court in order to

eventually overturned. Ruby way. Does that summarised the group's mission accurately that think you got it so I have to, imagine this is quite a day to be talking to you, because it is now that one o three in the afternoon on Tuesday and we have just walk as several republican senators who seem to be on the fence about filling justice, Ginsburg Vacancy said that they would seek to confirm a replacement for her in the coming weeks. The leaders of those being said, I remain Romney, and so it very much seems like you are on the coast. But the historic victory for social, religious conservatives and for the mission of your group. I think that's right and I think

no, no matter who you are. You feel the ground shaking underneath wondering where the nation is going for me. It is a surreal moment it. It is actually very hard to put into words, I'm feeling very optimistic for the mission that our organization launched on twenty five years ago. I wonder if, in twenty fifteen, when you were first facing the prospect of a Donald Trump Presidency, if you

who could have ever imagined they just over four years later. It would get you here to this point Michael. I was deeply opposed to the candidacy of this president. He was the last on a very long list and a distant last of people that I thought should be among I mean I think there were seventeen at the high point of candidates and I put out letters and South Carolina and in Iowa saying not this guy, so I did get dragged, kicking and screaming to the candidacy, and so the answer to your question is yeah. I would have been shocked to hear that this president would operate as the most provide president in history and that he would be the one to be naming

self described pro Life Supreme Court Justice, three that could turn the tide of events on abortion law after four decades. Since rovers wait. Let's talk a little bit more about that journey that you and your organization when on by kicking and screaming. I realise this is asking as someone who now has a close relationship with the president, but if you can go back to your wife first views and fears of him at the time and and described for me what you were thinking about him what he represented to you in that early period of twenty four and twenty six to him? I don't wanna talk about it because I actually, as a convert on this cause, I can say that its very much reflective of what people probably used to think of me when I was very strongly protrudes. You know my view change pretty german diametrically to the position ahead, but I, whatever people felt about me at that point, is exactly I felt about this present. We can't possibly have somebody who just convert

it overnight, be the candidate, and I didn't like a caustic comments, Tube Carly fee arena, who I adored at the time. So what I saw I wasn't please with and it's the point I would say that in my entire life, I've never been so happy to be so incredibly wrong about the commitments that he would make and how he would actually govern. And when you say conversion you mean his conversion from someone who supported abortion rights, supported candidates, who supported abortion rights to someone who was opposed to abortion, was pro life. That's right, but before we get to those commitments, I want to slow down just a little bit and talk about the journey. That that you wanna know not linger too much on it, but I do think it's important to understand during the period when you had objections to it, you did not mince words and I just want to put up a pen and how strongly doubt at him

appeared because you mentioned letters that you had issued against his candidacy, and there is a very pointed letter that I recall you addressed to republican voters as the Iowa Caucasus were about to get under way, and I was in Iowa during that time. So I remember this and this is what you said quote as pro life, women leaders from Iowa and across the nation. We urge report in caucus, goers and voters to support any one. But Donald Trump, the issue of defending unborn children and protecting women from the violence of abortion. Mister John cannot be trusted and there is fully. An abundance of alternative candidates with proven records of pro life leadership, whom pro life voters can support and you went on to say as women we. Disgusted by Mr Trumps, treatment of individuals, women in particular. So How are you able to get from there

the decision that you needed to build a relationship with pressure and start talking about commitments and partnerships. Well, that's a double edged question. One is: how could you former relationship after saying that, from his perspective right, that's one thing and the other? How for my end right so to me there was no choice: it was choice between someone who wanted to preserve abortion and expanded and have people pay for it. That was Hillary Clinton and he who made commitments to only pro life, judges and and other things So what do you do when you are given that choice? As imperfect as as the choice is look, there was a better choice. She suggested we call you you're, so you're saying the journey was essentially Donald Trump victory in the primary. Is that- she started to win you. Didn't feel you had a choice between his view, on abortion and Hillary Clinton use on abortion. You you do

to make a compromise? That's right! That's what the world of politics is, but I would not have done it if he had not made those commitments. I mean we had to have something to take door to door to over a million homes and battleground states to say this is who this is so. Yes, it was the primary animals, those commitments and then, as we were, moving into the general, he got stronger on the issue. Not weaker and the general direction of of candidates is the opposite that first, they are all about you. I love you and you're the best person on the planet and then they get into the general and they start to moderate will that is not how he treated the issue and he instead embraced it and communicated it and made sure that there was a contrast between his policies in his opponents and Hillary Clinton, and that's what you hope and dream for that. There's that perfect clarity in the voters, Nova choice, that they're making and he's the first person. That did it like that. But let's talk about the commitments that you're, referring to what exactly war

Movements and how did they come to me, I well, we knew what our priorities were, so we wrote him down on her and said these are the commitments we would like free to make and they were pro Life Supreme Court justices. Now, I'm very aware about how that term pro life Supreme Court, just as goes across quite a number of people, one they want you to know. That means is not accurate, is at me reverses way. Does that we wanted to be very clear that it means they take a position on abortion, that is in alignment with our own

So that was the first commitment and it was that it be very clear what type of Supreme Court justices you're going to have and what else did he committed, because my senses, it wasn't just Justice- is on a court. That's right. They Supreme Court. Peace is the most important piece, but there was also a commitment to protect the hide amendment, meaning no taxpayer funding of abortion to sign a twenty week, Pang capable bill into law. That means no abortions on the national level after five months, and also defending and reallocating plan parenthood funding to other crops.

Health centres, for pretty sweeping comment. So are you surprised when he agreed to do all this? When you got everything you wanted from him? I was a little bit surprised because we don't have an elaborate. She was are already the candidate generally. Canada's and opposition are going to put their name to anything. They don't have to anymore, but he's a different kind of Canada and he had taken his position anyone's benefit of it, and all we need was that letter and we gave it to him and then the rest is history are battleground said. I too very was incredibly helpful and he knows it in the when then it made everything worthwhile I'll, because every single thing he promise and beyond. He did. Let's talk a lot about what you mean when you said it made everything worthwhile, because I have to say that The jury that you went on was a very long journey in a relatively short period of time. So do you think, I'll drop actually believed in what he was signing up. Or in your mind

did not really matter whether he like fundamentally in his heart, believed it because he was effectively signing up to be the vehicle through which you could try to achieve what you had always been working towards, in other words, did not really matter if he may be didn't believe what he was signing onto it just matter that he would do the things he signed up to do. And did it really matter if someone actions were at odds with your faith in his in his personal life, especially, I think what really matters is. If you take these positions and he asked the concept question was: does he really think this voters care if they, if he really believes it, and I think it's the unanswerable question, what's deep in the chambers of your heart? What are your intentions? What do I know is very difficult to know. I know what you do care the Duke didn't care. He if you ll notice on this issue. People say all he's always scripted on ITALY's scripture because he doesn't want to get it wrong. It's two important. This is one thing that I know

he knows how important it is, and it is important to him because he's done everything and beyond that you have promised to do, and we know what you're describing is condemned and Tommy everything this is uncharitable or into practice, but you're describing a very transactional understanding with a presidential candidate in this at this stage. Well, if it were only that that would be fine, but I dont think it is only that. So that's how I look at it. You know it does matter. What's in the human heart, it also matters. What human does his actions and are gambling with the idea that he was going to follow through on were far better than the gamble that we had with already Clinton. There was no transaction possible with her. There was only one possible with him and he grew into the commitment, but to the lesser of faith. Who is hearing this conversation and his thinking? But how can you watch something like the access Hollywood video which came out at the end of the campaign so after he had made his commitment to you? How could you watch

that in support him, regardless of what you end up getting out of it I'm sure you ve asked this question before, but but but how do you want because here you're talking about someone boasting sexually assaulted women and soon after women came forward and said, that's what he did to me, I'm just. How did you think about the well, I thought about it and couple ways: one. It was painful and we're still left with the same choice, pain and two choices. There is a pretty. Your choice that you have to make and we knew what Hillary Clinton was going to do and we knew the commitment that the president had, and so we had to make that choice and we did and once we're in were all in you know I will never apologize for those actions or those comments, but I will till the day I die advance the policies that he committed to an end just around the corner, we're seeing the fruits of having done that. You

the word prudential- and I just I caught me, although because you're you're not using a word that can be. Morality or faith piercing prudent. If I'm hearing that work correctly yeah, I think actually, religious people use that I am quite a lot because it it acknowledges a hierarchy of goods and evils involved in any decision that decisions of great consequence all involved a blend of goods in bags, and your job is to figure out where the highest good is found, which choice leads. The highest good and that's a choice we had to make in that moment. In your mind, the highest good was a candidate who would fulfil your mission on the future of abortion and United States. That's rain when the president does go on to win the office, I wonder how much it felt like support from groups like yours. Matter my senses that it was pretty meaningful. I spoken to a couple of my colleagues here at the times who

We really trust on this subject and they said that the president likely wouldn't I have one several key states like Michigan, Wisconsin Pennsylvania, without support from christian conservatives and groups like yours, yeah. I think that he knows that in fact he called me right after election to say that, and I you know, take a little bit of exception. Sometimes there, the profile, people that are part of his election are sometimes catholic, sometimes evangelical, and sometimes neither sometimes Democrats, sometimes republican. Sometimes independence is one of those one of those issues, especially in the raw spelt states that you just mentioned, that transcends alot of boundaries, and so I think he gets that. I know he gets that and once in office in part, with your support right away present from gets a chance to put a justice on the cord to kind of do what it is you care so much about and he put forward and gets

formed a conservative jurists NEO Course a to your group supported. He gets second vacancy. He feels that with another conservative jurists by Cavanaugh, who you again supported. So we're? U surprise by how quickly this promise was kept by present a drop ended, it start to feel that in very short order. Your work was more or less cod done. A really good question. I think we ve had so many disappointments everytime where you seem like we're so close. You know it looks, did just within reach. And then all of a sudden something happens, and it's not so the only way. I know how to handle this. It is within the grace of daily obligation, doing the thing that has to be done today. That is the best possible strategic and smart choice that you can make, and so therefore, even right now, I don't take anything for granted. So, yes, I'm very hopeful very optimistic, but

Wild I'd want to talk about where we are right now and what you have been fighting for over these past few days, since Justice Ginsberg passing another seat was the third seed opening on the court during this presidency and the question for most people was wouldn't nomination to replace her happened before the election. What had happened after the election, given the tactics and actions of the republican leadership in the Senate into sixteen or not until there was a new president or their re election of President Trump, but since that, for you, there was only one option: right, you're right, you don't play roulette with that when this extra this high, in my opinion and that's how are acting so, I think, getting to be honest to get wrapped up in what other president's send Senate's have done and other times. Historically, it's not nearly as

and as the result they were, they were elected to do a job and they should be doing it now see or you're saying. That's all beside the point you like when people talk about the precedent of merit, garland or the promises that Lindsey Graham made very explicitly to the public and not try to eat and try to be cavalier about this, but as something your purchase or like who cares that's process the year I mean, I think they. Nobody cares about process, but I also think that if you have shot. You do it now. You don't wait and so just to be clear, what did you make clear that you wanted to have happened when Justice Ginsburg died, that the and put forward an army in that the Senate hold a hearing before now The third is one understand what was conveyed to me, that that is what we are asking in hoping what I talked to the present about what it's, like the vice president, about what we're talking to different senators, that, yes, that it be from the list which is not in question and that it

quickly done and that's what all of our conversations have been and why exactly do you wanted to be done so quickly and even before the election? I not wait until post of ember. Even if Donald Trump loses, like candy dominate the candidate or why can't the Senate hold hearings on candidate between us. And why does it have to happen so quickly? We'll cover things? One is that you wait any lose all the discipline cats move in different directions. They behave differently in a lame. They just do people aren't under the gun of an election that you lose the pressure you lose the leverage also, I think it will benefit the president to go in is a winner and that being a compelling case at the ballot boxes and also if the Arizona election goes against Martha Mc Sally, Ville Seat immediately a Democrat therein that changes the numbers. So it's a very concrete and pray

No reason to go ahead and do it now, but you referred to roulette earlier, you just don't wanna. Take any risk mighty, that might involve- changing, dynamic or changing electoral math in the Senate. Would you believe right now favours getting this done before the auction? That's right, you don't labour, let when the consequences are about high. What do you think was the most important thing. It happened over the last few days in convincing some of these. To get on board with your desire path, because there there were on paper, significant obstacles, including these public statements that had been made these commitments at it and made by several of these centres whether it was Chuck rashly whether was Lindsey Gram? I think the weight of that decision and a consequence of delay is an argument in itself. It has to be made by several people. It has in its made by the president, and the vice president is made from me, and people like me directly and

also look, I think about it. This way too is Lamar. Alexander, I think, is set it better than anybody. Lamar Alexander was was somebody that was very much on the all know. What is he going to do list and he he just made the most compelling, say, mother. I think he really believes- and I think Romney believes the same, which is this is a constitutional duty that should be done now, and the consequences of not doing that will be felt for decades. I know I keep asking you if you are surprised, but were you surprised when it Romney signed on. I think many people expected him to as a frequent to centre from the president, perhaps join. With Senator Susan Collins Senator Early summer, Caskey in being scrapped,

goal of this time. One. Yes, I'm completely surprised when especially senators all line up and make the same decision on Charlie shocked when there is unity, because Romney is very independent person, Grass LISA very an event in person. So, yes, I am blown away with unity at a moment where it needs to happen. I'm also very cognisant that it can be scattered. So that's why we remain very vigilant. I do believe Marjorie that you are responsible that anyway, for what happened, whether that's a matter of having gone President Trump, where he is with your support in the first place, putting him in a position for this to happen or the work you. In the past few days, and then am I right in thinking that somewhere, over the past seventy two, ninety six hours, you and folks in

organization are on the phone with these senators with their staff. I think I think I my team and our grassroots have a lot of them flights. I think we can look at it and said we're very much a part of it. I would never presume to say that were the reason, because it just wouldn't be true and would acknowledge the efforts of other people. But, yes, I think very much. We are helping drive the centre of this move to a reclamation and restoration of the court when it comes to rovers way very back. But you can use a snack right about now how about a toast,

grill cheese sandwich just be warned? If you happen to achieve gooey, cheesy perfection, you may be inspired to upgrade your time any drab kitchen only you won't be able to do it alone in this moment of new found passion, the people of. U S. Bank Wanna help, no matter what your car, up their dedicated to turning your new inspiration into your next pursuit. U s back housing under member. If the icy this is so many single to I'm a reporter for the New York Times, I've covered nine conflict written about earth, quakes, terror attacks, droughts, floods, many Humanitarian crises- my job is to bear witness right now, I'm writing about climate change and I'm trying to answer, some really big and urgent questions about life on a hot our planet like who is most vulnerable to climate change

should we redesign our cities, should we be eating differently? What happens to the millions of people who live by the coast as the oceans rise to make sense of this? I talk to climate scientists, inventors activists, mostly, I document the impact of global warming and their impact, is highly highly unequal. My colleagues and I are doing our best to answer a complicated questions like this, but we cannot do that without our subscribers. If you'd like to subscribe to go to and why times, dot com, slash subscribe and thank you. So what are the remaining questions now seem to only be some logistics. It feels like around the vote and who the nominee for this vacancy will be from a pretty short list. It is their only one path forward in your mind on this issue. When does it have to be like windows, the vote when it comes to who should get this? Nor does it

have to be Amy Connie bear it in your mind. Now there doesn't she's my favorite she's, our favorite she's a movements favour because a movement knows her and she's been completely vetted. We know who she is what she's about, and that is a real. I got when you're trying to move this fast, but the list I was very much a part of so I feel like our own it in some ways, so I am very confident that no matter who he chooses war continue what exactly the direction we are to your open to several possible judges analysed yes yeah, so I want to turn to Public opinion on the question of abortion and the path that you seem to be

setting for the president and for the Senate in this moment, which is a decision that may ultimately be at odds with where the majority of Americans are an a of of something that Justice Ginsburg said. While on the core about really way she had a critique of it, which is that she felt that in being so decisive and striking and so many state laws on abortion that ROE head kind of raced ahead of where the country was believe that the country was moving in the direction of Rome on its own and that the ruling risked a backlash from Americans by by doing this work from the bench, and it was a controversial. But I'm curious if you worry about the same thing happening, but now the other direction, because your goal is to get row overturned, and I ask that because the statistics on how american.

You. Abortion are very consistent at this moment in the country's history and they show that a majority of Americans support legalised abortion, and not support overturned While we wait and I could recite a bunch of pause, I dont think you need me to do that. So is this something, you worry about doing and creating a backlash towards our our knowledge that the country is worried that the country is worried, largely because the contradictions and an opinion- in other words. Yes, I know that Paul to be true that the majority supports rovers his weight, but then also they support bans after the first trimester, which is completely inconsistent and what will happen when row was overturned or eroded to the extent that it's not as app

People- will be that states will start to pass laws that reflect the laws of those states. That's the immediate, effective row. I'm only laws pass will be the laws that can be sustained by the majorities in those states, and I think that people will then see. Ok, it wasn't this soon army that we thought it's actually just the bearing out of democracy on an on an issue of deep moral conviction. Were people's opinions get to make their way into the law rather than the Supreme Court telling them. From summarize what you have been saying, your, worried. It sounds like about a backlash or going against the will of the people, because in your mind, if his issue returns to the state level, which is what would happen if row is overturned and the peoples,

port abortion than abortion, we'll still be legal brand. That will be the will of the people that we are seeing. That is the only laws that will go into effect, our laws that can be sustained by majorities of the people in the states in which they live. Some people will say that it may be a hard thing to measure. There are many states where legislatures maybe solidly republican and out of sync with the views, the majority of their residents, and so restrictions might emerge. That would then be reduced the availability of abortion that might be out of sync. I suppose you would argue that maybe an election would determine that then a few years later, but is there a real risk that very suddenly state legislatures that have been gerrymandered that have been made republican ways that don't referred The views of the majority of voters in that state would suddenly restrict

worse in a way that would not be in sync with the democratic principles you're talking about. Well, I book, I think democracy is the only institution that we have. There is a better one to gauge the will of the people and have that reflected in the law. I dont know one better one so to get to some consensus in our nation that stranglehold on law, on our ability to pass laws that reflect our deeply held conviction about the life and death of human beings has to lead up. If it doesn't let up, it will be exactly the way. It is now the never ending battle that people are sick of, but it's only occurring because as a matter of life and death and we're on the. Urge of getting to a place where we can say were victorious. Two took her back to the point for just a minute. You agreed that those surveys show that the majority of Americans support Roby Way support access to.

Guys abortion. So I wanna understand from your viewpoint how this process he play out and what the political repercussions may be. In some cases, even for allies of yours, people who you have supported and who have supported it, and I assume that something that you ve been thinking a lot about you. I think I think that what matters is what people really think we were looking at the polls, Emerson, contradiction. So what are we make of that? Their there's only backlash if it really is going further than the consensus will allow and if it goes further than consensus, will allow the democratic process picks up again and adjusts. So I think for people who are naturally afraid and risk averse, though they won't like it, that states are starting to enact laws that reflect

the will of their states because they'll be afraid perhaps, but that doesn't hold me up. So I wonder if you would just industry for a moment- and I want to you to imagine a future its November forth a handful, public and senators perhaps have lost their seats in part because of this process, and perhaps republicans lose control? the Senate, would it have been worth it? I'm not going there, because I I'm in

those places I mean we are literally in those Senate battles right now we have people going door to door and all of those in about I've talked to Senator Danes, for instance. Today, who says this confirmation, if it's done before the election, that he does not believe it? I heard his chances of. I believe that they all think that they don't think that that's gonna be the case, and I think there absolutely right. So, yes, there is a hierarchy of goals, but because of the way, this is rolling out, that's a false choice that I'm not willing to make we're, not just leaving things to fall where they will. I do not think that this hurts the present chances of winning. I dont think it hurts senators chances of winning the ones on the pro life side so itself at your having these conversations- and I know you don't want to imagine that future but but if that were to happen, if you were to wake up and find that the sun had been lost and maybe a bunch of senators even

they say, we got that third Trump conservative justice on the Supreme Court, but a cost us this. I want to ask you to grapple with effort system. Will it have been worth it? I don't think I'm making that decision, and so I am not willing to make that call. I think Look changing the court for decades and saving millions and millions of lives is the most important thing than I do, and politics is the route to that. So in this particular case, I do not feel that it's a choice that has to be made, I think, we're doing both at the same time, but you see the hierarchy of goods. The first motion

The thing is who sits on the Supreme Court when you didn't want to engage the question of whether this confirmation battle might cost Republicans control. The Senate it occurred to me that you would not want to imagine that future for the president either. But I have to ask why If, in the end, the president loses reelection, the autopsies and the retrospective look back and say It was in part because of an energized opposition, because. He rushed to get a third justice appointed to the Supreme Court, one openly opposed abortion, and that was at odds with where the electorate was it. You losing this historic ally of yours in this battle. We, that be okay and will it have been worth it? It's not gonna be ok to lose the presidency and it's not going to be okay to lose the Senate. The first priority is the Supreme Court without question.

And I'm gonna work for all three them now willing to see any of it. I'm not, but I am saying the most important thing is the Supreme Court and I think all those people I just mentioned degree you're saying you think present Trump would agree that it would have been worth losing reelection. Not the competition from court now, I think you I'm just saying the order of goods in the order of goods. The lasting value of the Supreme Court is a legacy for the Senate and for the president, and I can presume to speak for him or the senators, but I'm just saying I'm fighting for them all. I am not going to I'm not gonna, see any of it brought this. This phrase that you used when thinking about your partner ship with present trump. There was a a practicality too that's right. It will all of them worth it yeah. So I think this entire battle, all in some every single thing we have done for the last decade, everything we ve done

since twenty sixteen everything we will do for this election. If we have one more Supreme Court, just as that looks like Amy, Barrett or one of the others, it will all have been worth it more at a point of a major shift in his nation, and I am very happy to be in place that I am normally Pritchett your time. I appreciate your shoe Michael. Thank you Marjorie. Thank you so much

President Trump is expected to announce his nominee for the Supreme Court at five p m eastern on Saturday night, we'll bury back. Slack is a new way to communicate with your team. It replaces email with something

stir better organised and more secure. Every conversation has its own channel, that's easy to join, search or create, and it's all integrated you can attach info from thousands of apps share files may calls everything you need to get your work done. Welcome to your new headquarters, try it for free, it slack dot com site, where work happens. Here's what else you need today on Tuesday in the times reported that the death toll from the corona virus had surpassed. Two hundred thousand Americans on average in September about eight hundred and fifty Americans are dying from the virus every day and around forty ass. An american today are being infected despite those alarming numbers. The nations fourth largest closest my any date county in Florida.

On Tuesday, but it would allow students to return to the classroom five days a week, starting next month, Miami date reported newly three thousand new infections. Over the past week, That's it. I'm likeable by sea.