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A Small Town’s Fight Over America’s Biggest Sport

2020-01-27

Across the United States, parents and school districts have been wrestling with the question of whether the country’s most popular and profitable sport is too dangerous for children. Today, we explore how that dispute is playing out in one Texas town. Guests: Ken Belson, who covers the N.F.L. for The New York Times, spoke with Jim Harris and Spencer Taylor in Marshall, Texas. For more information on today’s episode, visit nytimes.com/thedaily.

Background reading:

  • Repeated blows to the head while playing football have been linked to a degenerative brain disease called C.T.E.
  • Football is a powerful, cultural force in Marshall, a city of about 24,000 people in East Texas. But residents, coaches and educators have questioned the safety of a sport they cannot imagine living without.
This is an unofficial transcript meant for reference. Accuracy is not guaranteed.
From New York Times unworkable. Borrow this detail today, across the. U S: parents in school districts are wrestling with whether the countries most popular and profitable sport is dangerous for kids candles on how that debate is playing out. In one Texas town, its Monday January, twenty seven we're in the eastern extreme eastern part of the state and counter centrally Texas. It's fifty inches of rain. A year pine trees used to be cattle everywhere. From now. Mostly people like me, have pine trees in the cows are gone. It was a nice way of life. I, like cows, are cheaper than a psychiatrist
you want me to introduce measure the armed James Harrow Harris Junior. I was born in nineteen thirty, two of the most my life and martial Texas, can't me about chimeras, well, Jim's a routine, small town doctor. I will on a ranch and used to have cattle, so everything I've been in Texas. Most of us so you're never leave in. Oh, maybe as if the wind blows my ashes away after I'm there at a baby body it and Jim had taken an interest in football which he had played as a kid. It was a rider passage, add added name any France who didn't play football loved it when I was big and fast midway through the seventh greater Bio, started, growing and had hair under their arms, and I was still singing in the choir Jimmy Its emailing me and these asking me about the stories, I'm writing and
He doesn't go away. I write him back, he writes again, and it goes on for months like this, Then the he's very earnest and curious. So I finally just decide to call him and he's from Marshall, Texas, town of about twenty five thousand about three hours north of Houston. Pascal footballs, a big deal. What is it football we have several middle sized towns in EAST Texas in their identities, were partially form bother. Prowess football I mean? I can name me all the football he wrote from about nineteen, forty on it and martial high school and Jim, was reading a lot of the stories. I was writing about disease called city it list. It was frightening. To anybody who's ever seen a slice of brain That was an awakening from me. Chronic traumatic, give up these degenerate brain disease, and then really around two thousand and two thousand and eleven is when it kind of exploded into the public domain. If you will
by world has been rock this week by the sad death of a former star with the suicide of players in David Yours, and it was a famous player on the global bears. T may say the Durban was also exceptionally smart and kind, which is why they were shocked when last week, the fifty year old, killed himself with a gun shot to the asked and you'll have to note. That said explicitly, I want my brain saved and so he shot himself in the chest, so his brain could be preserved and now to the tap a former NFL superstar junior say out and then the following year, even bigger case involving a mind, acronym junior, say, AUS, very famous player and was in the Hall of Fame Football Legend Junior stay. I was found dead Wednesday morning by his girlfriend after police say he shot. Self in the chest is ocean Thy California home, because you can we'd be found when players die. The researchers have been. Reviewing the families of those players and finding out,
what things they were exhibiting were kind of symptoms. It become a who's who a phone in a fell stocks enough to lie a wing of the Hall of Fame who complained about were diagnosed with. Elm was connected to repeat it blows to the head, and Jim Harris is reading about a lot of these cases involving these football players. At trusted I feel, and once or twice a year they would have one of their doctors. We now published an article about and how safe everything was, and I did really scrutinise on the internet or anywhere else and he'd discovers. The NFL was actually trying to tell a contrary story that, in fact, this isn't that dangerous and trying to play down the result of the other research, and so I think he starts to feel a bit betrayed that the NFL, like the tobacco industry, has tried to produce medical research to play down the dangers that are urging by non partisan researchers. So for him this is just a question of pure medicine and research. That's how it started
out, but then Jim started to think about his own life. His son play football right actively through high school Well, my boys were fast rush. Was monsieur to start with, and I mean even when he was three or four years only control of football further than the elder brothers. Good, and now I could live with. He was starting in the seventh and eighth grade. When I used to go to practice, if I happen to be off encouraged him to buy em, he discovers that his son had several concussions that he did not realise really feel like an idiot now and I feel guilty as hell does he have to worry on down the line. Damn right. He has to worry on down the line and don't think he's not worrying, because he's talk to me enough about DE in those who, enough about it here, he's got a risk if
earlier dementia. That's your that's! That's a burden, So what is Jim Harris now, armed with office information feeling guilty about his son and his role in encouraging and applicable. What does he do Jim started making a giant slideshow. I made a few talks around town, that sort of thing and taking it to various community centres and trying to get on lecture circuits if he will, if I had How easy it was to do a really good Powerpoint presentation out about it. Your son of a gun for for the last few years until, People about this disease see tee and how it's been associated with football, and ultimately, what he wants to convince people of is to get people to stop playing football, It was obvious that if you you're, going to do something about the dangers of football
to start at an early age, the things that Jim is talking about reflect the concerns of a lot of the parents who are starting to pull their kids out of. Paul and around this time and other youth league shuts down and the school board votes. Seven zero to shut down seventh grade, tackle football, Jim also gets involved in the boys and girls club, which has the largest youth programme in town as well friend. There ran that boys and girls and I had been a downer, but I wanted to make sure that. None of donations, we're goin for tackle football night and he starts in the drum there to shut down the tackle football programme. In the end I made a talk to their board and ultimately, he succeeds and that devoted to quit plaint tackle
no big deal. So these are three of the biggest youth tackle football programmes in Marshal and the fact that they shut down very quickly amounted to a big sea change. So it sounds like football, as Marshall Texas knew it for young people is very quickly over well, you would think so, but something interesting happens parents in town still love football, and so they start take matters into their own hands and they start to new youth football leagues for kids his youngest five years old? He said these kind of grassroots teams start cropping up, despite the fact that the community schemes rendered. A pre farm judgment on sport, Yet these are very much grassroots efforts. Just basically dad's raising money in the community to buy pads helmets old equipment and joining leagues to try and keep the ball. I
We should be retained bar that's right and one of those dad's is a fella named Spencer Taylor and who is spent regular Spencer's, a huge football fan. You better dinah thinnest forties group in Houston, move to marshal afforded he records on videotape his sons games. Why that you up, I think, so around the forty five closer and then re watches those recordings with his son to critique how it's done was playing furthermore, you going hit hard, both his son Spencer, you're, an regime's play guy, thinks a gay man. Guy thinks daughters, cheerleader, with a martial law. Matters will never know which is the best team will take to his watch
on the weekends he's in a fancy. Football league he's your kind of quintessential football that it had a baby. You gonna give up over not day I was doing so as these issues, Bush football programmes are shutting down, and these new youth football programmes are starting up. Spencer, decides he's, gonna become a coach So he joins along with a bunch of other dad's, to start up to new teams and can who is signing up for these new teams, mostly by kids. Somewhere in the order of ninety percent, I'd, say, majority black lobelia bit again barely any white which simply because the the third White and one third hispanic. What do you make of the fact that some of the white kids are pulling out of the sport and get on with the dynamic of the town is changed to? But I mean what do you make it effective?
get the town is changed to, but I mean what do you make of the fact that a greater percentage of african Americans are now feeling the team. Then, in past yeah August I spend more time around back parents, so it's gotta another. I really talk to you about cookies and friends. Little kids playing and I school sports now I guess I have never really had that conversation to ask them and how come you didn't? Let your kid played in Little league, probably a good question to ask justify in some ways: Jim Harris's messages in in the white part of town parents. Moving their kids in a baseball and soccer among other sports and hispanic families are more. I could put their kids into soccer programme in the back community and martial most parents that I spoke to seem to think that the risk the football, although they acknowledge them, are far outweighed by the benefits when you mean well Spencer, tells Us
about one of his sons, Spencer, Junior, that's a first year plan even real real small. Better tell me was worried about DNA, but he went on this scale. And how he was nervous about getting hit in practice. One day and. Are they learn by? We learned a backup Spencer was the ball then, this time they, these are the it was? Hardly maybe your middle out, the hidden. They both fell on the ground. You got a roll over low bid. Other give road bit Spencer. Today. Is worried that his sons unconscious first? I got scared he was hurt authority without but he was on the ground forever. So you runs up to him to take a look at him. I hope he's not seriously hurt that's what's going through my my this kid eventually, bounces up and Spencer starts talking him he rolled over and get back up. I guess was a little bit: dazed don't go, get
I'm a drink and he said I can find that it. It kind of goes in slow motion. The first time you see you can't get it I looked in his eyes, I could tell he was okay and that's a bad. How did that hurt, and he said no, sir- ass. It does. But how did you ever gonna get it out here? That's one of the biggest kids area nobody's going to order that from that point, on a kind of when he started really developing
game. That was one of the things I was holding him back from giving a low more effort because he was scared of the content, because everyone always makes it seem like a big hit. Is such a painful thing if you ve never done that before it looked painful, but we have always pads on is really not, and I think he finally figured that out. I've been trying to tell him that, but as one of the things you can't make, somebody understand they gotta experience themselves, and at that point his son realises that this is the aim of a ball and I can conquer it. And what is the point of that story? Just answer I think Spencer
trying to instill a sense of discipline and also a confidence in his son. He starts feeling tougher and- and I guess what they call it now. You look hella swagger about him. Then your confidence, knowing that I can play this game now. Full instance, more than just want to go catch balls as a receiver, throw a pass now I can handle the contact piece of it to Spencer, thinks that the discipline and confidence that you get from football comes from getting knocked down and getting up again. Those are the benefits of the sport that he sees as a dad it has a sense of family. The kids form relationships with the coaches, there's a handful of kids that say I've affected positively. I hope more than negative once they cover miles near your lot. I dread of just like my kids and so punishment to say
I get out on the same are rewarded the same, and so this is their chance to show what they can do. An might find out that the real good at this So clearly these kids are benefiting personally and socially from playing football, but wooden. They get the same benefits from any teams for from soccer from basketball from baseball. In many ways true and a Ferrari dad's too, and parents. They think that football offers yet more lessons in that, primarily is because its contacts board its What were you get hit? You have to learn to get up. Thus yourself often do at all and for a lot of these parents in Marshall, Football's away to get their kid to college his parents, there that's what they push on the kids. They need their kids to succeed in a sport to hopefully get a scholarship. Call it one day to win a scholarship, get a better education, maybe get a better job and, of course, perhaps make it to the big lease. Perhaps a handful have, including from Marshall right,
yes quarter back is from Marshall. In fact, the high school athletes fame quarterback is from Marshall. The high school athletic facility is named after him, so kind Did you get around to asking Spencer what he thinks of the kind of reporting that you're doing about football and about brain injury? and the risks of what he's encouraging these gets adieu. Oh sure I asked in point blank I mean you, you ve, probably read some of the report's serve stories about the relationship between it's in the risk of brain injury later in life and so forth. But you love the sport. Electric kids play it, you coach it. What do you make of the two parts of the sport and the potential dangers? I think a lot of those reports at ethic accurate, but I think they were also done on older people around on and avail players and causes players who these guys, when they came up there,
that's how they hit they hit at first. The game is just so much safer now and I these kids today aren't hitting that hard at this age and it's so. I think that makes it looks safer. I tell you what, if I was not a coach and on the field with the kids every day, then I will probably be a lot more. Then you know overly cautious it. It's not as bad when you're out there did. You feel, like you, can control the situation, a lot more towards women like Spencer, and sounds like for all these coaches. The fact that someone like Jim Harris has assembled this information about risks it just doesn't seem like those risks at all out way, the current social, parental and even financial benefits of this game for Spencer, the risk of football are pretty remote,
I mean the idea of brain damage is thirty forty years in the future, if at all So the tension between the Spencer's of the world, the gym heresies of the world, are the battle that's playing out, not just in Marshall but across the country between the people, who think benefits outweigh the risk and those who thing The risks are no longer worth it, and these people are taking action there pulling the kids out of football so much so that this starting to worry some of the most powerful people in the football establishment, will look at these declines and see the future the football game fading pulling back We all shop online a lot and finding promo code that work. Isn't he
see unless you use honey, the free browser tension, backed by pay pal that scans, the internet for the best promo code and automatically attitude cart, just download honey to your computer shop like normal click, the apply, coupons button and watch the prices drop, it hundred percent free to use and installs in just a few seconds, get honey for free. I join honey, calm, slash daily, that's join honey, dot, com, Flash daily I'm Wendy Door and I'm an editor on the daily for me. Of my adult life, I thought of the New York Times as giant news machine that spit out news stories all day, long kind of like a vending machine and I'm embarrassed to say that it wasn't really until I came to work here at the times that I started to think about the reporters behind those news stories and what it takes to get the story. In the first place. Sometimes these reporters risked their lives. Sometimes they talk to us at two in the morning. Sometimes they call us from a war zone and not
do. They tell us what's happening on the ground wherever they are, but they also give us the context that we need to understand it. If you like her ring from these reporters every day, which I know I do the work, the thing that you can do to support them and the daily is to subscribe to the New York Times if you'd like to do that, go to and why times dot com slash subscribe. Football is saying participation decline in high schools across the country across Oregon High School football participation is declining rock from fourteen we send a high schools in Texas, just under even eleven percent fear of injury and fear of concussions and greater awareness of the consequences of concussion. Let me ask you how
as one make the game safe up. How do you make for game safer? You don't play so despite the fact that two new use leagues popped up in more sure nationally the trend is gone. The other way, leagues are concerned dating parents are not putting an end to football at all, so against this the NFL and they double ay and other people who were powerful in the football establishment worried they have essentially a big problem on their hands. Participation is falling and there's been researched. It shows that kids who play football all or any sport, frankly, are likely to follow it as a consumer later in life. So the nervous at the pipeline, that is, the future of a boy's, slowly being turned off absolutely cause. Fewer players means fewer fans, which means ultimately fewer dollars.
Life without football, no Friday, night lights, no pep rallies, no band, so they came up with a plan, basically to start a marketing campaign to remind people that football has some positive. Ass All that time invested to teach young men and women, commitment and team spirit gone men be the best camaraderie or teamwork, or discipline or even fight childhood obesity by getting kids out and running around several hours a day celebrated It only happens. Every bar join the game, another part of the campaign is to remind parents that the game is actually gotten safer and it actually gotten safer on the margins. Yes, there has been a number of. Rule changes where collegiate and profession when even Highschool football have taken out some of the most dangerous place,
there's also been a lot of investment in better equipment, development and new helmets and so forth, and perhaps most importantly, there's more medical protocols for both identifying concussions and removing players in the game. If they do have a concussion not just putting them in the game, the way is to be done so well, This is going on at the NFL in the collegiate level. Some of the same changes and new equipment and medical protocols are also happening in towns, like Marshall, at the high school level, and they have spent money on new equipment. There now trainers on the sidelines of game and the coaches have all taken programmes on how to identify and treat concussions as well so can does all of this work. This marketing campaign from the highest levels of the bodies, new rules, this new equipment, this duty,
aiming. Are people responding well to us? Well, at least in Marshall, it seems to be working the to youth leagues that popped up their seeing participation start to rise, the head coach of the high school team. He sees kids moving to other towns because they still want to play and that's hurting marshals team, so the team was losing some of its best players. So he starts bringing this issue up to the school board. And the school board decides. Let's put this on the agenda for a vote. Should we bring back seventh grade tackle football? was unhappy with it. I was disgusted and how- Jim Harris, the family doctor who changed how so many people and martial think about football, especially useful. But how does he feel about this development? I thought we were returning to a more primitive approach to football on, and I was disappointing Ash billboard board. He shocked he had put his heart into this,
to raising awareness. Frankly, he stuck his neck out on a very unpopular topic. Right, and tried to tell parents that keeping their kids in the game is not a smart thing to do, but his persistent. So he decides to go to the school board meeting and make a last ditch attempt at convincing them. Not bring back seventh grade football. I just decided I needed to be more graphic and I had made an appearance in a year or two, and I thought I better. Let him know that nothing had changed to prepare for the meeting Jim goes into his kitchen. I think my wife is out of town, she could stop me. I made some Jello had to read the directions that never made jello before, but at an starts making a badge of red, Jello Jello, yet jello, you gotta refrigerated so little congeal jail. Reason: it's red is that's the school colours for March high school. I had a big, clear bottle, big battle jar,
and he pours it into a big pickle jar, and I just take it down there, and so he takes this pickled jar filled with red jello and gets in his car any eyes off his ranch and down the highway to the school board meeting. Can you tell us about that evening orbit oh yeah. I had a hard time parkin in and then I got in there and there were people everywhere, he's kind of excited right. This is his big moment to take a stand. And he arrives- the room- is crowded. They were given a ward teachers and to state, as you have done, real well, and then he discovers that the people end up leaving because they were just there to receive some awards and before I got my chance, spake, the rain was virtually empty, so I'd added
of an audience. So is basically you in whatever a dozen or so people in the room. At that point, yes went up to the microphone with my model and gave him three minutes of my spiel and he's trying to to demonstrate to the seven School board members in the most vivid way? He can what it's like when the in his sloshing around inside a skull, much as it does during football games so Jim goes to the podium and with the three minutes that he's aloud, he takes the pickle jar. Phil with the Red yellow he made. That's it above his head and he shakes it sized it around a little bit twisted the wobbly slashed it and- the yellow heads. And down in sideways and every other side of the jar that binds gonna wobble and twisted shaken and bout. Sad to sad its tethered to the bottom of the skull, which is rough
Scott bulges here and bulges there. It there's just way it can be safe, but this is all sorts of men traumas going on at the same time and what You do this over and over and over over many years you increase your risk of brain disease and what was reaction tell me did ask any she was really follow. No, they did say where lay smiled and my time was up and then they seventy zero to bring back seventh great football. Can what does this vote and martial this pretty me reversal. What is it tell us about where the american public is when it comes to football and its health risks? Will I think the arc of the narrative that unfolded in Marshall from five years ago, when they ban seventh grade football all the way through to last year, when they
It back is really the story. That's happened all across the country. There was a lot of worries very deep, seated once you know the NFL Nancy double AY, all these football establishment. Europe's kind of rumbled inaction and tried to address their problems head on, so to speak, but two guys, like Jim Harris it'll, never be safe enough to german doctors who study the issue in depth. All of these small had traumas that kid's absorb when they play a game. Football raise the risk of brain damage down the road, and so the fact that there have been actual improvements in safety that doesn't change how they view this game when it comes to young people, No. In fact, it's sort of beside the point. Concussions are visible. There big hits, but to people who are worried about the risk of brain disease in the future. It's all the little hits that kids
nor when they're playing the game that are cumulative, and so that's just football. It's a collision sport you can avoided. If you're going to play the game You see the kids and then take some kids that were real scared, began the year don't love in the game that they want to come back every year and now What's in more developed, they do want to be on the winning team. They want to just do better. If I just enjoy that just seeing the kids and These lonely days or some of the most memorable for them yo ass, I kids
and I worry about your son and my grandson and in any body whose pliant I wrote an article back. Oh, I think in two thousand fourteen and about Texas through it, which is what I called football, I finally ended by saying I think that the Texas Roulette might be more dangerous than russian roulette. Can think you're much thanks. Michael What. With one hundred and thirty million bucks in the world deciding which to read can be hard answer book of all the parties.
Were established. Authors and emerging talent led the way through an immersive, sound experience of their book join her Amanda Stern to explore award winning novels secret masterpieces and even a few forgotten gems subscribe? And here we are the ball is getting rave reviews book? A ball from loud tree media available on apple casts Spotify or wherever you get your broadcasts. Here's what else you need to know they're asking you to tear up all of the ballots across this country on your own mission in their opening arguments of the impeachment trial on Saturday, lawyers from President Trump attacked his democratic accusers as quarters. Trying to remove him from office because they could not defeat him at the ballot box. For all there. Talk about election interference, but they're here to perpetrate
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Transcript generated on 2020-04-23.