I am I am back on and on about it, you feel like you're, ok having their name in a story. Do you wanna talk at all more about that? I'm ok! I hate to say this debate. They say it's a lie to fight the bare head on or do stay hidden some, I my usual reaction not to have my name was. I dont want about the best from your times, I'm Michael Mark. This is a daily today, a case study in how easy it is to destroy a person's reputation online with lies and how hard it is to hold the

visuals and websites who published those lies accountable. My calling Kashmir Hill Tell the story of a single family, they tried to fight back it's Tuesday April sex. What are your roughened he'll? Do you mind is walking through a tab? What happens? I'm gonna start in the middle of a good place to start, because your tell me about look rather so look man's outside of Montreal and he s an idea guy, sign? Who isn't he now this guy, you know a normal life,

canadian guy, but a few years ago his wife was talking on the phone to her father. How are you doing that girl, her fathers and his abs and he seemed like he was really agitated from what Luke was picking up. Is Canada's listening in the car people and efficient.

To sum up and his father lavishes really upset about this, because it wasn't trail and also from some things about my wife and I am, I grab the tablet, hamster churches and saw what was written about her and I crave your face that may have scant people. You know I sold them, Katy Perry, tickets and then never delivered them, and my thing to laugh at all like it's a lot of very difficult for the latter will move on to somebody else. But then he took his son and then I saw the posts there were these horrible things written about him his while the curate

I have been in some other time. Seventy that's when we got really upset because for assigned misunderstood, starting out in life, is going to be debating and go into you our city, and he was just really worried about how this was gonna affect his sons, opportunities. There's, no way that I could marry at some point. You gonna start with Peru over that's, how I got involved and where is he seeing these posts? What kind of website There were not on site. You would normally visit the play. Most famous one was ripoff report, which is kind of a few,

and stand as a consumer. You can complain there. The other ones were like busted, cheater, Cheater Board dating complaints, deadbeat registry, the leads exposed, just you know, cover ridiculously name sites and no one's visiting became exist almost just to show up in people's Google results. She was kind of plant as these sites sound. These claims are still coming up pretty prominently when Luke Google's his family- yes, there well read, but their high ranking and the other, men had been time made. These attacks really effective was that whoever had done ass took photos from social media sites like linked in and Facebook, and then Heaven

no crossing images, scammer thief and pedophile. So how does Luke and his family respond to these really awful posts and search results? So we assume it First, that you know if there is complete, lies about you on the internet. There is a way to get them taken down, so they start clicking around on these sites and basically get to a section of the site that explains how you can get things removed. It says that there is an arbitration. process that cost two thousand dollars per report and There are a lot of reports about them and it would just be out of their price range, it's as if their reputations are almost being held to ransom by these websites. So how is that possible? How can these companies refuse to do anything and instead demand money? So it's possible because of this

american law that dates back to the early days of the internet. It's called section two hundred and thirty of the communications Decency ACT and it essentially protects websites from being liable for the things that they are These are as post on the site and this law was actually really important allowed. Something like Facebook to thrive worth being worried any time you know somebody posted something objectionable on the site they would be sued until was there was important and early is the internet, but now you know- being used by these sites that exist to host a family, Tory Material Claim protection for being liable for that material. And so now I'm in Luke is looking at this and just thinking. Well,

citing knock and either uneven about us. So what does he decided in my brother in law? Guy, the? I thought he was attacked a lot and we both have ip background that we speak the same language, so he and I ll abrogated together to research while the post and to try to identify who might be some here, I saw a team up with his brother in law and hurried he'll. Take more time my pie will and whose named Guy Butler, who was also called a scammer and up while I imagine this, is relative to how much time you ve spent thing about this inspired. by the time they are talking. And what should we know about guy, so Guy Babcock lives and the UK? Actually where's in a little village outside of Oxford, like one pub end, no stop lights,

still a little ice cream parlour and Adela Life, but now he is called a pattern very prominently online and he gets super worried about this or to security, Cctv and without a dog rally, because there have Recently a ban vigilantes who have gone after child molesters that I actually offers a way to get a permanent forgotten.

And now the village is talking about it. So you fancy very willing partner in his brother in law guy, to try to do something about this. Yeah absolutely said: eight EC screenshots they get all of the EU are ours, so they can take all of that to the police. So I've got the big documents I get. A rubber would like a hundred page document, and I went to the police station spoke to the. I guess it's a desk officer and he said well, it's not illegal sure do he said is a simple matter like criminal care worker document says, there's nothing that can be done, but I told him you're telling me that if I go online and Thursday with your officer are pedophiles, I am not. Breaking

they said that crack well, which of course, I dont believe for a second. So the pencil told I don't seem very interested, but looking guy just keep searching around on their own. Looking out, all these people about down looking for clues to see if they can find out. Who is behind us from the cottage now the family to know exactly what I what I know word out, but I don't know the town but the personnel from the town, and I thought I had somebody that no, the Hamley well couple weeks entered ass, Guy Babcock is very deep into his Google results, he's looking at a blog where

he's been written about in the comments of this blog and everything. Bar has been anonymous They don't recognize, but this time there's a photo. A shot of my doubts for two minutes steered screen. What I saw it's a blurry style, but it's a woman were long, reddish hair, She is wearing a black laser and yes, chunky, earrings actually felt lighthouse. I still remember occurs to me that wasn't. I was gonna pass out, but I just felt light headed, I'm just sitting there, like in. On my wake, you don't like all this stress about worrying about who is it you know and who could hate us so much and who could be doing something? I could just all made sense We also said it was a woman. He had not seen and three decades under much about her. Ah, yes, she was it Dana

Her name is Medea audits left the middle. I told you under the start of the Middle EAST, other store. So what is the family know about? My dear Addis, So back in the nineties, family owned a real estate office and hired the dear Addis as a real estate agent and at first she was great. She was ambitious, very Factors in the office was winning a words, but then over time, her behavior change in her performance deteriorated her office got very messy, So the bad Cox basically went in there was just turning Laundry and like happy ensued, and then this really concerned incident happened where homeowners signature had been forged to keep the house on the market

It was meteor Addis is case, and that is that just the meat. Can't do that, and so they immediately fired her, but the really weird thing happened. The years later, Guy Pat Cox, Father hers, neighbours got these anonymous letters. the mail that said that he was roaming, the neighbourhood at night and masturbating in the bushes know they were pretty combined This wasn't handier Addis just because they does. didn't know anyone else. You hated them not much, but then that was wait, nine these and they had not heard anything about her or from her since then, but now it seem like she was doing basically the same thing. anonymously, defaming them online. infer the whole world to see two once Luke and I think they know who is attacking their family online. What do they do?

Oh Google, Madeira on us there find out where she is today and one of the first day they find when they, Google. Her is a lawyer whose written a whole one post about her about how she had Attack the lawyer and her family and her colleagues, and that are lawsuits against her and basically that they have been dealing with it for years, so they reach out to the lawyer it turns out that this law in the many other people affected were no Mary certain. It was an indian Addis, but they didn't have a lot of proof and now here comes Luke with a photo of Madeira audits It was just exactly what they needed and they said just send us everything that you have. You

We have to realise their new posts going up every day about a lot of people. It's just an incredible volume of posts. The where's aren't really capable of getting my arms around it because they all have a techie. Are we got him and so book? Besides he's going to be the tat guy, he is going to keep track of all the new posts that are coming About his valet about the wires and basically anyone who might have been targeted by the dear Addis, you remember her if you put it that way and that was everybody in your family the lawyer, crook and from the border family as well, so. We'll just those into overdrive. He teaches themselves running language of python that can essentially go through all the sites and keep track of new posts.

And then manually went through every single entry is a permanent if it was a toy posts or one that we should just ignore and what the allegation that date, what was a date? It becomes like a second job for him. I would start work in the morning at five until my my regular, they were what they would start and then at six o clock at night I go back. and work around the knife. One o clock sleep a few hours after the whole thing again the next day, and he just starts discovering now It affects more people than they realise there are thousands of post. I mean it was just my blowing I've written about online defamation pass, but I had

has never seen something like this at this scale, you no one person writing about this many people and publishing this many posts I mean it was. You are spread or a bad and images kept spreading. I heard New victims, as I was reporting the story, distant relatives. The original targets who had gotten caught up in it, and it was very devastating for the people affected Did you ever try to reach out to her? He had taught her directly. They get her to stop doing this good water with quite a few times. Every time that I wanted to refer to say why are you doing

What have we done to you and whatever we may have done? I'm sorry that is causing you that much now much pain and anguish. You feel the need to tackle from his manner, but I never did I came to realize this with somebody then harbours a grudge or work. I close the thirty year periods, somebody that,

here in the way that you the backing, as there is no way to reason with this individual too deeply within them to attack now without passion, how kind from the time? Yes, how are you. While the back in twenty twenty one. Mental health is finally cool, but therapy doesn't have to be sitting around just talking about feelings, fair beacon, whatever you want to be badly stress or feeling in secure it's time to

not being ashamed of human struggles and start being happy better. online therapy offers videophone and and live chat sessions plus more for Well, then, in person therapy, but just as effective for ten percent off your first month visit better help dot com, slash the Daily better hd, lp dot com, slash the daily in a word thumb unwisely Morris. We are to culture riders at the near. times and we hope to podcast called still processing every week. We talk about the way popular culture connects to music movies, tv and Tiktok and books and politics, sometimes pretty much what ever grappling with an all the themes that run through it: gender, race, identity, you name it

we're on it Jenna. The reason I'm talking to you is because I love the experience of the. U defying my personal physics by changed my mind. You know they say like the kitchen is where you want to be during House party. Yeah, like our show, is the kitchen. Our show is that everybody else. Zaire, Sweden we're having a damn conversation. You callousness, missing. Where ever you get your package where the kitchen, until human airport, the call them the go ahead to cover you eventually get in the dear Addis on the phone yourself. What are you end up? Learning from your conversations with her, so I spent many hours on the phone with her and learned very little. Can I,

where you are I'm in Toronto. I would try to ask questions about herself. Just basic questions. Are you in front of a computer merchant than she was just very selective Why would you ask your she denied writing any of the petty file posts? I didn't like that. I'd ever not prove anything about that and that I did not feel I've denied that, but she admitted to a couple basically calling the lawyers idiots. You say that you right it does: France, Germany or Jack Outdoor AIR, incompetent, unscrupulous, etc, etc. She really felt like she was the victim and that you ve been fighting for Justice airlines wasn't it It will provide you with any information you want, but I really would ask valued. Please don't make me, but she was very concerned.

and about me writing about her. He drew a story on this, I'm sorry. You think I mean anyone to enter a month. Google leaning gonna come up. I don't want to come up here I dont want to be in the New York Times, because, if I'm in your story- it'll come up in Google? You men ass? She should resist devastating and I dont want this to come up and go wait. I have another link being called a petty outside the worst possible thing that can happen. The somebody is so as challenging as these conversations sound. What are you able to piece together about her life based on reporting? Mrs, what I learned She had grown up outside the Toronto area. She became a realistic, agent in the eighties and broke through in a male dominated industry. She started buying

property in Toronto that she rented out to tenant, but at some point it seems like her. Life has started to fall apart in late, one thousand, nine hundred and ninety, There is an instant her brother seem to have a psychotic break and he accused. His mother of being part of a devil worshipping call any ended up, shooting her. I'm in the hand, and this happened two months before midnight honest inspired by the bad Cox. so a round the time at her work, life is starting to collapse. It sounds like her. Personal life is also starting to collapse. Yes and then in the next two decades, she just falls off the map. I really couldn't find much about her. A relative told me basically during this time that her feet,

We are trying to get her help that they were trying to get her to go into mental health treatment, but she didn't want to do that, So when you re emerges, it's in court records there's an assault charge, there's a recession meaning order, she's starting to have finance problems. She can't make the payments on her. When the chairs and she's foreclosed on end. that's when the online harassment of the lawyers begins. And what you learn about in a deer odyssey life since it so in twenty eight, the lawyers beside the higher private investigator to try to figure out basically where she lived like how she Accessing the internet there hoping to get evidence in their case that she was responsible and the private investigator discovered that she was spending nights in homer. I'll: tourists and spending hours at the library using public computers

she'll, be there. You know from noon to midnight, so the body of evidence is becoming pretty overwhelming here that this is not your eyes minus right and I became certain. he wise after post started appearing about me. You, yes, on the same sites that Oliver other victims have been written about. All of a sudden. There repose with my photo saying I had thought of my boy, for a year in order to get promoted that I was a plagiarists other thing I do not want to say on the daily and then she started. about my husband. I thought be prepared. I had a feeling it was gonna happen. It still further. horrible when it happened. What do you mean? I mean? I know it's not true, but you know what, if a source Google's me and then they see that about me- and they might think- oh it's on this ridiculous site- this-

probably isn't true. This is ridiculous, but I'd interviewed people you know you know, look and about Cox and ask them what they thought when they saw him. so they said yeah it look ridiculous, but where their smoke there's fire and so maybe there's something to it and that's what so horrible about having lies about you on the internet, because people see it and I think maybe there's something to it so suddenly you're not that much different, then Luke and guy in becoming a target of this harassment. But in your case Europe, published your time. Journalists, your online reputation and footprint is much bigger than theirs and can promise. We sustain these attacks better than they can. And they are dealing with far more of these posts. Then you are too what ends up happening to them, to die and to look

so looking guy had joined with all the lawyers in this big defamation, lawsuit against needier, Addis and at the beginning of May, here. They one which was a big deal that meant that in the The law on the dear Addis was responsible and it should help them get the posting and then around the same time, I published a big Ray and the New York Times about all this about what happened about my dear Addis Ababa, shortly after that, the police arrested, adhere Addis and charged her with criminal

ass men and criminal libel has taken together. What will that mean for the ability of this family can read the internet of these? Many false defamatory claims about them, so it may seem like an ending, but it isn't. There are still thousands of posts about them and they have this order from the court now which might help them remove some of the postings. If there are sites that comply with that, but there are a lot of sites that don't, and there still. Ten, two thirty that says: they're not responsible for what people like my dear Addis right on their size. I think there's one way of looking at the story where you just say

you know my dear Addis is this: villain has done so much harm to people, but she is someone who clearly has a lot of problems. Any sites have fed on those problems and there is other people like her, and these kinds of things are going to keep happening. So how are the bath Cox doing right? Now, Madeira, there nemesis their tormentor has been arrested. So how are they feeling about all this? I called lick recently to see it

so like it was finally over. You know you'd been dealing with this for years. How did you feel when you found out that she had been arrested hard to put him in the world a little bit of a mission accomplished, purpose feeling? But at the same time, though, that she'll be out of jail the three or four. What's going to happen in the future. We know that town she's going to resume her tab and then that you're probably intensify the tap. I don't feel like it's over no very, very far from adequate

probably have many about their studies warble things about him and about his sign, especially that's what really Father SAM this assist occupied such a big part of his brain and his life for years now, and it just doesn't feel like it's over now. What do you think it will take me to have closer on it and does not have it in your brain? Everything obey a little over. Have closure whatever happens, that for her away for her to learn and to stop doing that

you know? Inside of you, you always worry that crap near tat happening, and you don't know about them. Much of it, however, have closer at some point. Browser learn my one by a fireplace in the Caribbean lose no internet. No, no telephone coverage weakens us relaxing. Do you know, Kashmir, thank you very much. We appreciate think you're. Probably I do no dear Addis was released from jail in February shortly after it, pierce the she resumed her online attacks in an upcoming episode, Kashmir

examines the website hosting these defamatory claims and what can be done to stop them? What right back, if you're a business owner you know that running a business is tough don't we could books and spreadsheets slow you down anymore. Now is the time to upgrade to net sweet by Oracle, the world's number one cow business system. Sweet, gives you, visibility and control of your financials hr, inventory, e commerce and more join the over twenty four, companies using nets. We right now schedule your free product were right now at net Sweden, calm, slash and why T net sweet that calm, slash and why tee. Here's what else you need. Ten thirty

do you believe that decided, followed depends department, departmental policy, five dash three or four regarding de escalation, I absolutely do not. on the sixth day in the mortal trial of direct show them the chief of the The apple is police department and children's former boss. Madeira, are Redondo testified. The children's actions towards George Floyd violated department policies and were wrong by every imaginable measure that action is not the escalation and when we talk about the framework of our sanctity of life, Emily talk about the principles and values that we have, that that action goes contrary to what were taught the testimony highlighted.

Difficulty. The children will face in persuade the jury that he was due his job when he Pink Floyd to the ground, with his knee last may, for more than nine minutes once there was. A longer any resistance and clearly when Mr Floyd was no longer responsive and even motionless, to continue to apply that level of force twin person prone doubt hand up behind her back that that in no way she reform is anything that is by policy is not part of training, and it is certainly not part of our ethics are about that's it for the date I Michael borrow see tomorrow

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