From the New York Times. I'm Michael Barbara. This is Today, too much After the violence in Charlottesville, two hundred employees of the ACL you have signed. A secret letter saying organizations quote rigid commitment to the first two is undermining of broader commitment to racial justice, raising the question The american civil liberties rethink its approach to the biggest, civil liberty of all its Monday October.

So we're gonna jump him. Ok, and am I saying your name, my seeing your name quickly as it operates. It's a bray abroad, a bright yeah, so I'm putting too much I without uttering yes as perfect. Ok, Gregor Green! Had it. How did you first learn. The rally I actually was at home doing some work in someone posted a bow, the rally twitter, and I turned on my tv, I grew up in the south and and I was in high school. I saw a cake he marched through. Our Martin Luther king prayed, and it is brought back memories of a time where it really wasn't safe to be a black person.

One of the reasons that I worked Fraser while you was because of my experience, growing up being called the inward in the third grade, he NEO being a black person themselves. Just in general, I wanted to work for an organisation that could help advance racial justice, where I could make an impact for communities. So you're, watching the news you're seeing on twitter that this rallies going on in an you quickly understand its scale and meaning? What are you learn about? The origins of the rally Well one of the things that I learned was that the Asia

Virginia helped them to secure a permit to be involved in this rally, and what was that discovery like for you? It was shocking ay. I felt very conflicted Emma opinion in this does not necessarily represent that of the organization on me, in hand. I firmly believe in the first and the Maiden free speech and free expression, but you know, as a black person, I was hearing from three members as hearing from friends. Asking me: do you really care about Rachel? Just is you really care about us if your reasoning, if you're representing white nationals- yes, yes, They see. They see you in the issue you as choosing yeah free speech over racial justice and choosing to elevate

the rights of white supremacist over the harms that it can inflict on people of color re it can be more challenging. Then I would like to admit on a day to day basis with the idea that free speech is is now a source of controversy within the organisation is pretty extraordinary. Joseph Goldstein has been reporting on the seal you for the times whenever the ACL you does anything, they attract a lot of attention and a lot of criticism. What made this different? Was there a lot? some of their membership entered good fraction of their staff, were very uncomfortable. Critics are not, left and the right saves time for the ACL you to rethink how they defend the first amendment in a lot of people blamed Violence and we ask the serious Charlottesville, asked for there to be moved out, downtown Charlottesville Report about a mile and a half away governor open when

about this sort of underscored. The ACL use involvement. We were, unfortunately issued by the ACL you and the judge ruled against us that rally. People said that the seal you have blood on their hands quote sometimes standing on the wrong side of history in defence of a cause, you think is right, is still just standing on the wrong side of history. When did you first hear about a letter going around your office, so there at sea, within a weaker

Oh it's kind of when people started having conversations so there's a letter and late August Stomach address Dear Anthony, Anthony Romero, the initial use executive director, the letter states that that the problem with representing white supremacists is not that we disagree with them. It is the doing so advances the racist agenda in a country where they have great strength and hidden were institutional and structural racism. Continues to give some speakers greater power than others in the letter goes on to state that our broader mission, which includes advancing the right she'll justice guarantees in the constitution and elsewhere, not just the first amendment continues to be undermined by our rigid stance. I signed it. I thought it was important that when we make these decisions it as it, it causes me to have to grapple with

what that representation means in a way that might be different for someone who can look at it just in a very theoretical way. It felt very real In other words, this was not a theoretical exercise in what it means to represent speech that you may find deeply offensive warrant, but but this was as real as it gets an you wanted to communicate what it felt like for it to be that real yeah, how many people inside dsl, you signed this letter of dissent. So I'm told more than two hundred out of a total of about thirteen hundred full time, staff so number feeble, yeah and end its pretty extraordinary that with it within the easier you there's a debate over what type of free speech cases it should be taken

cause. For most of a hundred years, it's been all free speech cases as a given, wherever there's government censorship of any idea they step in and the pretty much the only ones who do that tell me about the town of Skokie, the village, Skokie Illinois is heavily jewish and at this moment in time I'm late seventies and unusual concentration of holocaust survivors who have settled their Skokie, seventy thousand middle income, people have attracted a lot of business but Scooby, as also dragged of a NEO Nazi groove and a lot of controversy in that's with true frank column of the National Socialist Party of America to want March there in the late nineteenth seventies. Party leader Franklin said he's inviting Nazis from all over the United States or the demonstration at Skokie

or the July? We decided in nineteen seventy seven to force the issue, area where the concept of white power was most opposed, that being skulking which has a large jewish population, so why did they pick the village of Skokie? It was too to produce the most shock and get the most attention and provoke the most controversy, which is why we're still talking about it. Nearly forty years later, one day in nineteen. Seventy seven, but I got a call from call on the head of Little Banded Nazis Franklin. He is a lot of trouble marching anywhere, so when village of Skokie ARM denies his application or puts up too many barriers. He picks up the phone and key does the seal you office and quickly connects with David Goldberger his counts.

And he asked a the you would represent him and, frankly, what happened, as I called around, to find other lawyers who could step in, and I called seven or eight workers from major firms, and they all said, are not this one, which meant that I was gonna. Be me. I was raised at you, I'm a Jew. Today there were people in Scotland well. I, like my relatives, so is a tough case where so much pain in us. So much

Please, I beg you now as I get old it. I've got some times lower than I am I just out of myself. I can go back to sleep and I don't know what to do as a man which went through hell, I'm very Very against. If appreciate the anguish that you create with your presence, especially for those who have to tattoos on there are those who lost your smiling and sort of almost I kind of for the chance to reply to my question should not prove a smile again, Mr Call, not only do I appreciated, I calculated a mind. I who's. The hysteria of the jewish community in Skokie, especially to propel the issue of first amendment rights for Nationals Just so you disagreed with perhaps their sentiment. Representing their right to express that son and what was that lay over? Well, I

I'm out of a household were that was a value that was taught at the dinner table when well. When I was a kid, we would sit around the dinner table. My dad was at the head of the table. We would be talking about current events and the battles over integration. You know I need to talk about it in terms of neutral principle, so everybody no matter there, races entitled to equal treatment and what sauce for the goose is sauce for the gander. Is that what he actually said at that dinner Timor? What what did he say sure? That's it! That's precisely what he said. No matter how offensive you were or Europe beliefs were. Everybody has a right to a fair and equal treatment under the law. You can't make exceptions because you don't like the people or you don't agree with them and absorbed those values really.

The time without realizing how important they would become to me. I still at the beginning. I knew people were angry, but I had no idea how angry until the case just acts. Floaters Fenwick, the ACLU had thousands of resignations. The threats began to pick up. There were physical threats, phone calls at you. No one said I'm going to blow your head off The jury defenceless, shut up with ball bats at our office walked in

lobby and swung the ball back into the air and then turn around and laugh. David sounds like a lot of fellow juice thought you had, but tat betrayed them. Is that what he s? Yes, yes, Sir David looking back at that case, had it hasn't make you feel now I'm proud that I did it just that simple. I really get there. I feel profoundly that I did. The right thing get became a paradigm work. The teaching example about the importance of the first amendment about the importance of neutral principles and what's the lesson that time yet thought there,

Everyone has the right to speak so long as they play by the rules. This moment, you're describing after Skokie, where many parts of the country are up in arms over the decision to allow this protest to champion the rights of these nazis. It feels like an egg goes. The back left, Charlottesville, what's actually different about Charlottesville in Skokie, so so a few things Then let's go through them. A one is after sort of putting Skokie on the National map and and and starting a ceiling. Conversation about free speech and are the rights of hate speech on the march. Never happens, everybody sort of assumes it did its Nazis and

okey, but they then they never ended a marching there, I'm probably to their relief, because by the ended in seem that they were going to be able to to get that many nazis to show what we allowed our banners or the banners when they haven't rally, they'd be lucky use. If three or four doesn't people taking part in bringing not, I didn't bring in no way they would sometimes be outnumbered. Encounter protestors seventy two one I can't ever face- isn't that right pathetic bullshit, has their ideas, might be helpful in fearsome bud,

Their presence is unlike what was was much less so, and the White Supremacy movement is at the moment in Poland and larger and too many much more fearsome than it was a few decades ago. There was a big torch lit rally on the Friday night before that March and distant feel, like gum Justa, a measly turn out of a dozen fringe white supremacist, which was the caissons go Skokie.

Then how has the Charlottesville case changed easier? You I'm not sure that its change this year, you at all, remember in Skokie. I think I told you there were thousands of resignations and objections. The Asia Europe has always been a place where you get in the difficult cases. Cases that are extremely controversial, that a lot of people discover that the asia- you wasn't exactly what they thought. It was that it was true back during the skulking case, and I think it's true today, hopefully they'll come around. If not there we need to think about whether they should be working for lawyers guilder, people for the american way, deeming it sounds like the critique. As I understand it is not that white Nationalists and Charlottesville should have been censored anyway, but Stared at the ACL, you has

I am a resource and- and it's just a copper if it has a limited number of resources and therefore should only take important cases. What case could be more important than Charlottesville right now. With regard to the first amendment, in light of the reaction in the discussion that ongoing above-

cop out to these inflammatory cases, Charlottesville Skokie, you see them is the most important cases because of their prominence and therefore the issue you should take them. They reinforce basic principles like First Amendment right to freedom of speech that are always thrown into question. One people are controversy on off and back away from those cases. As far as I'm concerned is a cop out

a break one of your, your colleagues that we spoke to David Goldberger worked in the the famous Skokie Illinois case. He thinks that two not take the case of the white Nationalists and the White Supremacists Insurance Phil is, in his words a cop out cohesion that, where it would be a cop out I've constitutionally to not take up that that case. What do you say to that? I think that you know if we know if we know the disparate impacts of Brean cases that are going to harm communities of color. Why should that be part of the calculus of moving?

Where was certain cases again? We definitely should uphold the principles of free speech, free expression. I also think that there are other parts of the constitution that we also works uphold, like the thirteen fourteen fifteen limits and you know that which is about which is about equal protection, which is about equal protection, I wanted to make sure that we are considering all parts of the constitution. Finally, to do you think of the you actually change its official policies because of what happened in Trottel know, though, how many free speech absolutist are still on the board, I guess we'll find out, but the expectation is that no, the ACL you, the board, is knocking dramatically change any policies. However, most of the work on these first amendment free speech cases is done

sort of it, the local affiliate office. I mean when Richard Spencer wants to the alt right ideologues when he wants to go speak to the university in the universities has no is lawyer, will sort of of and an intake form online with diesel you office in Alabama or in Texas, and hope that somebody calls them back. And if, if these staffers are the ones on the receipt, end of those and take forms, are the ones who sort of pick up the phone and actually decide whether or not to take a complaint they could very easily decide that no, the ACL use not gonna, be representing a lot of white supremacist going forward just by virtue of not returning a phone call and dragging their heels, So essentially these lawyers on the ground could remove. The policies on their own, just by not getting back to somebody who wants there, how, by not answering the call a white, supremacist,

absolutely call comes in on Thursday callback. The following one state, by which point is a good chance. The rally might have already happened or not have were not happened, relax right now, We are peacefully here we're not bringing back on Saturday night White, she was returned to Charlottesville for around. We in the same park where they gathered in August. Carrying titty torches about forty demonstrators, marched for ten minutes led by the white supremacist. Richard spent

and then dispersed without incident, because the rally was under fifty people know permit from the city of Charlottesville was required. A spokesman for the city told the local paper quote: while we prefer a protest get permits like any other. Often such assemblies are protected by the first amendment. And we do not interfere unless we perceive a legal or safety issue will be right back. Support for the daily comes from tee in tee presenting the alien is angel of darkness, the all season of the acclaimed Emmy award. Winning television series at the turn of the twentieth century uncover a dark

sinister trail of death and deceit as an intrepid team of crime, solvers reunite to hunt and elusive killer Daniel, brutal Luke Evans and Dakota Fanning STAR in the aliens angel of darkness. The honesty. Premier, Sunday July, nineteen, that nine eight central anti anti go to the aliens dot com for more here's. What else you need to know today that times reports that before agreeing to allow young undocumented immigrants known as dreamers to stay Legally, in the: U S, President Trump will demand the Congress: harden the Southern: U S border, to prevent the entry of children from violence in Central America. The White House are use that, by allowing tens of thousands of those children into the country over the past few years, the? U S is clear.

Eating an endless stream of sympathetic young immigrants who will continue to seek amnesty and present a Trump and republican Senator Bob quarter of tennis. He engaged in extraordinary public clash over the weekend after Corker sit this about the president's cabinet, I think secondary tellers and sectoral matters and chief of staff. Kelly are those people that help separate our country from chaos, and I support them very much telephoned Madison Tellier separating this country from pass from the president's crowd. Yes, they lay they buy, in a very they worked very well together. On Sunday, the president tweeted did Corker had decided not to run for reelection, because quote he didn't have the guts. Senator Corker responded with his own tween saying

It's a shame that the White House has become an adult daycare centers some one obviously miss their shift. This morning, later. On Sunday, Corker told the times the trumps behaviour setting off world war. Three quarter support will be critical to the White House on upcoming tax reform in a vote on the future of the European Union. Finally, Harvey wine has been fired three days after the times reported on deck. Of sexual harassment. Allegations against the Hollywood mobile had taken leave of absence on Friday after apologizing for his behaviour towards women on site. The directors of the Winston company notified him by email that he had been terminated for violating the company's code of conduct

that's it for the did Michael global ceiling. Do you avoid tough problems and shy away from a debate? Do you think uncertainty limits potential? Neither do we have a university of Chicago Booth, school of business. We believe in asking questions and questioning answers with campuses in Chicago London and Hong Kong. The booth MBA is for people who see challenges opportunities and what the skills to make positive change in any market anywhere in the world, ready to find your community search Chicago booth, DOT. Eddie you today to learn more