Hey Daily listeners, it's Jame christian host of the argument, a podcast from your trance opinion. I've spent years as a reporter talking to people from across the political spectrum. I've heard a lot of arguments to in person and online. Some are baseless and mean, but some have made me think differently or helped me hungry can't other people's points of view and that's what the. You meant is about each week on the show, you'll hear people who disagree with each other So simple debate that gets behind the Big news stories and beyond party lives like powder reform. policing in America, whether we the student dead, raise the minimum wage or kill the filibuster. You might not agree with everything you hear and that's the point you might even walk away some new opinions of your out. You can listening You have the sense of the argument every Wednesday, wherever yours thanks to this bad guest from New York Times, I'm like a bull bars

is the daily the today It's ridiculous Senate Judiciary Committee will come to order. what we've learned so far from the confirmation hearings of President Biden's first nominee to the Supreme Court Judge Ketanji Brown Jackson. I spoke with my colleague, Adam looked about four key moments: the Wednesday March. Twenty third.

In it's more than two hundred and thirty years, the Supreme Court has had one hundred and fifteen justices. One hundred and eight have been white men just to justices of been men of color. Only five women have served on the court and just one woman of color, not a single justice, has been a black woman view. Jackson can be the first. Madam, we are talking to you at a little after six p m on the set day, of the confirmation hearings for judge, Katon Brown, Jackson and just to set the stage heading into these hearings: democratic support. For judge. Jackson has not seemed in doubt it is fishing we believe too. very narrowly confirm her. And so the real question is the depth of opposition from Senate Republicans. What arguments they'd make against her and whether those arguments might danger her democratic support, and so that's the prism

through which we want to examine a few key moments from these hearings, and I think we should start with Judge Jackson's opening steam where she really has a chance to frame her story. So, let's chairman Durban, ranking member graph flea and distinguished members of the Judiciary Committee. Thank you for convening this hearing and for considering my nomination as associate justice of the Supreme Court of the United States Michael nobody doubts- and this includes republicans- that Judge Jackson's story or life story Inspirational and could really only have happened in the last few decades. The first of my many blessings is the fact that I was born in this great nation

a little over fifty years ago, in September of nineteen, seventy Congress had enacted to civil rights acts in the Kate before she was born, not long after the civil rights movement achieved tremendous gains and transformed Americans Friday and, like so many who had experienced Lothal racial segregation first hand, my Aren't Johnny, and every Brown left their home town of my Emmi Florida and moved to Washington DC to experience new freedom and to express both cried in their heritage and hope for the future? gave me an african name, Katagiri Anita, which they were told means lovely. One

Then she was able to go and taught her. Parents were not unlike to an uncertain, related public school. My very earliest memories are watching my father, steady. He had his stack of law books on the kitchen table. While I sat across from him with my stack of colouring books, shoe recounted, vivid memories, He's of, for instance, her father, a public school teacher studying to become a lawyer and the two of them. Many other the father, with a stack of law books and the daughter with a stick of colouring books. My parents also instilled in me and my younger brother khitai, the importance of public service. She also spoke about the tradition of public service in her family city. Todd started out as a police officer following two of our uncles after the September eleventh attacks on our country to volunteered for the army

and eventually her brother to have rankles served as law enforcement officers after this timber eleven attacks. Her younger brother signed up for the military served two tours of duty in the Middle EAST and she herself goes to Harvard college and Harvard LAW School in clerks for three different federal judges, including justice, Stephen Breyer, whom she hopes to replace I dedicated career to ensuring that the words engraved on the front of the Supreme Court building equal. justice under law a reality and not just an ideal. So there's really no question that life story is emblematic of the progress of american society and I I think at least I'm biographical grounds.

There is any reason to think that she didn't charm. All of the centres of Jackson said it addressed me. You, Mr Chairman, welcome again to our committee. Ok, so let's turn to the next big moment in these hearings, which was an exchange where Judge Jackson is asked by Republican. Senator Grassley of Iowa, the ranking Republican on that, The judiciary committee to really explain, her judicial philosophy, which is a key question for Republicans, bout her and what they really seem to be trying to get at is how do you apply? The law? Ask you whether you believed in the theory that the constitution is a living I commend whose meaning evolves overtime. How do you in terms Constitution and really just how brought a judge: are you to walk through that exchange? I very acutely aware of the

citations on the exercise of my judicial power will answer she gave. Those limitations would be ones. You would think. The Republicans would like that she's closely focused on the relevant text, whether it's the constitution or a statute, and I do not believe that there is a leaving institution in the sense that it's changing and it and it's infused with my own policy perspective, or you know the policy perspective of the day. Did she doesn't believe in a living constitution? Can you explain that phrase living constitution and what it would mean to someone like Chuck Grassley to ask we're about it, and what would it mean for her you have said. I don't believe in that concept, so I guess the the extreme version of a living constitution, would allow judges to infuse the constitutional text with

whatever they believed, was the appropriate answer, given contemporary circumstances to any particular legal question, I think that's a little bit of a caricature, probably closer to the reality of what a sympathetic version of a living constitution would mean is that the founders, use general phrases in the constitution, the freedom of the press, equal protection laws and so on in order to lead succeeding generations. and feel that with meaning relevant to contemporary circumstances. But most conservatives would adopt the Antonin Scalia version of constitution when he would say it's not living it's dead, dead, dead right and that All that matters is how it was understood when it was adopted and ratified. The Supreme Court has made clear that

when you are interpreting the constitution, you're looking at the text at the time of the founding and what the meaning was then as a constraint on my all authority and her version of our judicial philosophy was much closer to this clear version and their explicit rejection of a living constitution approach should have hardened Republicans, and so I, like that constraint, I look at the text to determine what Meant to those who drafted it right. This is in many ways the language we associate with the republican appointed justices on the Supreme Court, so it felt a little unexpected out of the mouth of a democratic nominee president by yeah. I suppose, although many

liberal scholars and judges now. use these tools, these interpretive methods, original ism index journalism to reach liberal. So, on the one hand, it tells the republican senators what they want. Right. On the other hand, they know and we know it doesn't actually predict what kind of justice she's going to be so you're saying Republicans might appreciate this language from judge Jackson, but they aren't necessarily buying it and they're very eager to poke holes in it? and that's exactly what happens next. Of course, Adam. We saw in several exchanges republicans attempting to portray Judge Jackson as left, leaning, as in some cases, radical The first of these exchanges came questioning from Senator Lindsey, Graham of South Carolina. So thank you judge again. Congratulations!

talk to look Senator Lindsey, Graham Astor, about her representation of detainees at Guantanamo Bay Cuba. So now, let's talk about it now, where, after the September, eleven attacks, the United States send people they considered terrorists or enemy combatants and where they've been held, some of them now for two decades clean. Why judge Action ever came. The represent people act, one time of bad. What what was happening Where is she was a federal public defender shoes in appellate lawyer and assist in several public defender and there came a time when the Supreme Court said that detainees could file petitions for habeas corpus, petitions seeking to be released and she filed a series of them and senator, Graham, said. On the one hand, everyone does,

as a lawyer and do you think is important, system that everybody be represented. Absolutely it's core constitutional you'll. Get no complaint from me. my job in the air Force- I was a air defense counsel are rare, but on the other hand, he seemed to take offence to some of what he characterized as arguments. She made and what were the arguments he found offensive. So my question is very simple: do you support the idea? Did you support, then? The idea that indefinite detention of an enemy combatant is unlawful, respectfully senator when you are an attorney and you have clients who come to you, whether they pay or not. You represent their positions before the court. Did you ever accuse and one of your habeas, but

since the government of acting as war criminals for holding the detainees and they holding of the detainees, but by our government that we were acting as war criminals said that she had accused the government of being a war criminal and that's a very loose interpretation of the language of the little filings did she had submitted center. I know my men,

or that accusation. But I will say that you bleed that's true that America was being as war criminals in holding these trees sort of the Supreme Court held that the executive branch has the authority to detain people who were designated as enemy combatants for the duration of the hostilities and what I was doing in the context of the heaviest petitions at this very early stage in the process. Was making allegations to preserve issues on behalf of my clients? Apparently she said that torturing detainees and there were significant, significant evidence that there was such torture. to a war crime, she didn't associate that concept with anyone in particular rights as universal.

Called anyone war criminals, that's right. Lawyers make well occasionally, I've been a lawyer too, but I don't think it's necessary to call the government a war criminal in pursuing charges against a terrorist. I just think that's too far, I dunno why he chose his words. That's just before, but we are where we are. So this was Senator, Graham, who is himself a former, military lawyer it may be engaging a little legal arguments, it doesn't hew entirely closely to the facts, so it would cram is really up to here. Just to summarize, this is. trying to portray. Judge Jackson is overzealous in her defense of these detainees who he sees it to the: U S and his trial, to portray her and having a stick to do government at a time of war and her reply is As a lawyer, my job is to defend my client, no matter who that client is-

because everybody is entitled to a legal defense in the american justice system. Here therefore bear characterization of it. I don't know that it got all that much traction from his republican colleagues was one of several lines of attack in which Judge Jackson was portrayed by Republicans is siding with the wrong. People back this podcast cast added by Fx Atlanta Thursdays on FX stream on Hulu Europe. It's different Atlanta season, three

takes paper boy earn, Van and Darius across the pond and they're diving with new success, new connections, and new we're dish axes. It Lana Thursdays on it. acts stream on Hulu the next moment we want to talk about feels very related to the exchange that we just discussed. Senator Graham had attempted to judge Jackson as sympathetic to terrorists. And not long after Judge Jackson, welcome new regulations. Thank you. A fellow republican Senator TED Cruz of Texas, helps to portray Judge Jackson as over sympathetic to people who ass child sexual imagery imagery of child sexual abuse, so Talk us through that exchange. Let's, let's take a look at your actual

so Senator crews makes the case you have had ten different cases involving child pornography, in which he said the judge. Jackson in sentencing people convicted of these terrible crimes with too late on them, and I did states versus chasing the prosecutor, asked for seventy eight to ninety seven months posed. Twenty eight may it's twenty eight months is a sixty four percent reduction and he had charts and graphs in the United States vs Hopkins the prosecutor asked for twenty four month. You imposed three months. That was an eighty eight percent,

reduction in and examples and percentages every single case, one hundred percent of them. When prosecutors came before you with child pornography cases, you sentence the defenders to substantially below not just the guidelines which are way higher, but what the prosecutor asked for, on average, of these cases, forty seven point: two percent less now you said you met and how does she respond to that? Adam not impressed by his chart a couple of observations? One is that your chart does not include all of the factors that Congress has told judges to consider, including the probation officer recommendation. In these cases she says it doesn't include all the factors that judge we should consider sentencing guidelines, not only the recommendations,

sentencing law is very complicated and you I slice and dice a number of different ways, but sentencing experts, team to agree more or less. On the following that these sent guidelines which are advisory and discretionary are all accounts very harsh in this area. So much so that prosecutors, often as for substantially lighter sentences than the guidelines call for, and Congress has said, that a judge not playing a numbers game. The judge is looking at all of these different, actors and making a determination in every case, based on a number of different considerations, and in every case I did my duty hold the defendants accountable in light of the evidence.

Information that was presented to me the evidence seems to be she is completely in line with what other judges in see where she served as a trial, judge and across the nation are doing, but I suggested. Her answer here is only technical for every defendant who comes before me and who suggests, as they often do, that they're. Just a look that these crimes? Don't really matter? They've collected these things on the internet and it's fine. I tell them about the victim statements that have come into me. As a judge, he became quite impassioned earlier in the hearing industry

Bing, the terrible harm that these images do, that people subjected to them have lifelong trauma. When I look in the eyes of a defendant was weeping because I'm giving a significant sentence. What I say to him is: do you know that there is someone who has written to me and who has told me that she has developed a Gora phobia? She cannot leave her house because She's thinks that everyone she meets will have seen. Her will have seen her pictures on the internet they're out there forever at the most vulnerable time of her life and so she's paralyzed. I tell that story to every child porn defendant as apart

of my sentence so that they understand what they have done to her larger point was to reject completely and emphatically the idea that she is soft on this kind of crime, and why did this series of exchanges on this subject matter? Why guess, if you had to think about you know who are the people that the american public are least likely to be sympathetic to he might start with terrorists and then go on to people complicit in child sexual abuse. So it's if nothing else, political hardball, but it also gave us an opportunity to look at judge.

Accent under pressure and she was throughout composed and forceful Adam. Our colleagues have reported that republicans have really struggled with whether or how to engage the question of race in these hearings either by talking about we're talking around it. Given that Judge Jackson is the first black woman to be nominated to the Supreme Court and that they're trying to block her. So how do you think, ultimately, the Republicans chose to handle that subject? Will they talked about race in one context: critical race theory, as you know, originated at your my alma mater at at the Harvard LAW school which Critical race theory in your understanding what what does critical race theory what is it more, which was illegal movement of TED Crews, discussed with Judge Jackson. They had met at Harvard LAW School, the same

and in law, schools, critical race theory. Play a role in some amount of legal thinking. Senator My understanding is that critical race theory is. It is an academic theory that is about the ways in which race interacts with institutions. It doesn't come up in my work as a judge, its never something that I've asked speed relied on and it wouldn't be something that I would rely on. If I was on the Supreme Court. Judge Jackson said She never studied it and certainly never used in dress burdens, jurisprudence and she says it doesn't come up. the work that I do as a judge? Some ask you. A different question is: is critical race theory taught in schools? Is it taught kindergarten through twelfth sen? I don't

No, I don't think so. I believe, and then in noting that judge, acts and sit on the board of a private school in Washington, or I will confess I find that statement a little hard to reconcile with the public record, because if you look at the Georgetown day, schools curriculum, it is old and overflowing with critical race there he started it is showing her a number of books. He said were in the curriculum at the school. Including one called anti racist baby. There are portions of this book that that I find really quite remarkable. One portion of the book says: babies are taught to be racist or anti racist. There is no neutrality and they do do you agree with this book that is being taught with kids, that the babies are racist, senator

I do not believe that any child should be made to feel as though they are racist or tho? they are not valued or though they are less than that their victim? What exactly is crews up to any here? What is this about? Well, basically, what I think is going on with several of these lines. Of questioning from Republicans is that you need a reason to vote against the first black woman to serve on the Supreme Court. do you need to have something to say when you cast that vote, and so it seems to be an effort to try to find something That will sell to at least your constituents that she likes terrorists

then she's soft on people involved in child sexual abuse That she endorses racist baby books in private school and whatever force these critiques have their real purpose used to be to provide a rationale for a vote against Judge Jackson because, as you said, Adam her judicial philosophy would not alone. seems sufficient for many of these Republicans to vote no, but you're saying in these narrow lines of attack, their fine there a reason to vote against her yeah, that's right, she's A conventional judge. she's, a mainstream judge description of how she goes about doing her. Judicial job ought to be attractive to Republican,

her description of her judicial philosophy ought to be attractive to Republicans, so that all they had to work with her be very hard to justify a vote against her. So you need a different, better and apparently more colorful reason so animals. We wrap up here. These last two days, confirmation hearings left, Judge, Jackson's nomination, there's every reason to think that she's going to be Firmed, there's little reason to think that she, is going to attract many. If any republic votes. When she was confirmed last year to the federal appeals court in Washington. She got the votes of senators, Graham Collins Macao, Ski the Graham vote on the evidence of Tuesdays hearing, seems to be off the table. It doesn't matter if she gets no republican support, because if the fifty Democrats sing together and

There's every reason to think they will aided by the tie, breaking vote of vice president she'll get on the Supreme Court. I am humbled and honored to have the opportunity to serve in this capacity and to be the first and only black woman to serve on the United States Supreme Court. The significance of that was not lost. On Judge Jackson, I stand on the shoulders of generations. Past who never had any thing close to this opportunity who talk: candidly about the history that had gone into her ability to even I have a shot at the job and the fact that if confer, She'll serve as a role model for many people

among them. Young black girls who may not have envisioned this is possibility. Thank you for this historic chance. To join the highest court to work with brilliant colleagues to inspire future generate since and to ensure liberty and justice for all The. As always. Thank you very much Thank you, Michael. the. Information hearings for Judge Jackson will resume this morning

full Senate vote on her nomination is expected by MID April. The We back Hmm, the. Most leadership advice doesn't speak to women of color, I'm see Marshal and I'm Meta Malik and we are the host of brown table talk a pack has presented by linked in together. We share our biggest career lessons and provide tips on how women of color can navigate and win at work linked and pod casts network presented by rising, brings together insight

and perspectives from the leading voices in business. So you can be inspired and progress in your career finer shows where ever you listen then find the conversation on linked in Here's what else you need to know today, Ukrainian forces claimed an important victory on Tuesday, saying they had retaken a key, e town from russian troops called mockery forty miles west of Keith. Meanwhile, in Russia, President Putin to find his crackdown on descent against the war courts under prudence, control sentenced his leading political opponent Alexey, while the an additional nine years in prison on the charge of fraud on top of the two and a half years

Not only is already servant in letters from jail has been urging Russia's to protest. The war in Ukraine and chinese authorities say they have found no survivors from the crash of a Boeing made passenger plane flown by China, Eastern Airlines. There was carrying one hundred and thirty two people across southern China on Monday, the plane Moment more than twenty thousand feet in about a minute briefly regained altitude then plunged again to the ground. So far, The cause of the crash is unknown. Titties episode was used by Rachel Cluster Diana Win and moose shaded. It was edited by John. catch him. An injury, Davis, Lynn condemn

and regional music from Marian was on out and was engineered by Chris. Would our music is by Jim Rutenberg and then land for a wonderfully The I'm Michael BAR see tomorrow. Migraine, sufferers often feel a bad day coming on Nortek O D Remit, Japan. Seventy five milligrams is the first and only medicine that can treat a migraine attack and prevent episodic migraines with pain in as little as sixty minutes and protection that can last up to forty eight hours, don't take if your allergic to Tech Odt.

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