From the New York Times are Michael about. This is tat in in a combative, open the day of the NATO summit in Brussels President Trump, when after Germany calling it a captive of Russia and calling other member countries delinquent where his frustration is coming from it's Thursday July Michael those story of NATO, Willie stores with three countries, the United States, the Soviet Union and Nazi Germany dated Sanger is a national security correspondent for the times. Now, the? U S in this

obvious, of course, were allies of convenience against Germany, but in all Campbell, very ugly and as soon as victory in Europe was declared in April nineteen. Forty five and added moment. The big concern moved away from a Nazi Germany. They could threaten Europe to a Soviet union. They could do so So right after the war was over. There was a great fear that vulnerable countries that had been initially be taken over by the Nazis from Poland, Denmark, Belgium could all fall under the influence of the com in the Soviet Union, so overtime I'm the! U S came around the idea that the Soviet Union had to be contained.

We have a situation which confronts the day my parents a session and hurried form and want to come. In nineteen? Forty, seven and lay that out? I believe he said, then I believe it must be. The powers in the United States to support free peoples who are resisting attempted subjugation by armed minorities are by outside pressure. That was really the beginning of the liberal international order. The idea that the United States was going to be a guarantor of freedom around the world so. How did the? U S actually put that into practice or almost as soon as crewman uttered those words? A series of crises came up the election, which lasted almost two whole days.

Is held under the watchful eye of three hundred. The soviets were meddling in the italian elections in nineteen. Forty eight, the United States also meddled in those elections. Both western powers and Russia exert strong pressure Czechoslovakia in nineteen. Forty eight is an established democracy. The Soviets overthrew a democratically elected government in freckles, on February twenty informed that the alternative is civil war and of unmistakable threats of invasion from the Soviet Union. If he does not capitulated. President Danish accepts a communist cabinet and then, of course, June One thousand nine hundred and forty eight two and one slash: two million people cut off isolated from the outside world. The soviets cut off all access to West Berlin.

Food and fuel, but our homes and batteries can no longer be back to them. Overland and the United States ended up mounting what became called The Berlin AIR, with the people in the western sectoral balloon, have learned to live with sight and sound of these giant for engine aircraft. For the past year This has been our only hope which flew in supplies to keep the people of West. I am alive and in many ways to keep this one little. Haven of Democracy alive as well and David. How does the? U S respond to this aggression from the Soviet Union all starting in nineteen. Forty, eight, the Truman Frazier realise that they were going to actually need to put together some kind of military alliance. If there is anything second today, if there is anything inevitable in the future, it is the will of the people of the world, our freedom and our plea by April nineteen for

nine Harry Truman had gathered together ministers from around Europe, and they said in the State Department Auditorium and signed this alliance. We will now proceed to the signing of the North Atlantic Treaty and that created NATO treaty shall enter into force between the states which have ratified it, including the ratification and works. He is now well, it's basically just a military alliance to defend Europe against what was the Soviet Union The North Atlantic Treaty was signed by Norway, Denmark, the Netherlands, Belgium, Luxembourg, France, ITALY, Portugal, the United. Iceland, Canada and the United States, but the key piece of NATO is something called article five in its founding document, and that basically says

they were sworn to stand together with arms integration. An attack against one would be an attack against all on one country is an attack, and the idea was to create some sense of deterrence so that the Soviets knew that if they tried to pick off even the weakest member of NATO in Europe, they were going to be fighting everyone, including the United States, so David. This is a military alliance based in Europe created by the: U S designed to rebuff a single enemy. The Soviet Union,

Yes, that was the goal. I say without hesitation that I am absolutely convinced that NATO provides the best, if not the only hope of peace. You know, Michael there was this checking line early in NATO's history from General Hastings Ismail, who was the first secretary general of NATO. He said the purpose of NATO was to keep the Soviet Union out the amount comes in, and the Germans down leaders of the Communist wound meat in Warsaw to sign the treaty, which is an answer to NATO and the sewing respond by creating their own sort of data, which was called the Warsaw Pact, and they had had communist nations that were under soviet influence. Poland, Bulgaria, Czechoslovakia, hungry, of course, EAST Germany,

and they were a military alliance of their own. So you saw these two groups of military allies facing off against each other. Now, waste must at all times maintain its own strength as long as the possibility of aggression adjacent only does, Can we safeguard that peace for which the peoples of the world are longing? And how does this new organisation NATO Operate data day? How's it funded? Has it function? Well, there isn't a completely safe NATO military force of any kind, they don't have their own arm. Instead, they pull

gather the military forces of each of the member countries at over time. They learned how to train together and put their doctrine together, but the whole thought is that they just get organised under one European Supreme Commander appointed by the United States, and of course it's the. U S. It's always been at the core of NATO because it had the biggest forces it had the most money and give had the most sophisticated intelligence And, of course, Britain, the United States and later France had nuclear weapons, and the whole idea was that if you pull these together, you create a pretty fearsome deterrent and in fact that's pretty

Well worked, what do you mean that it worked think about all the wars that didn't happen? We never saw a nuclear war break out in Europe, although it was threatened frequently in the fifties and sixtys and of course the Soviets knew that the United States was keeping missiles in Turkey Nuclear weapons in Belgium that another one

forces were forward, deployed and under some NATO control or could be moved to NATO control fairly quickly and that made them think twice. So the original idea of NATO, which is the symbolism of all these countries, kind of locking arms militarily and assuring each other that they will go to war to protect one another. This has its desired goal of keeping the Soviet Union at Bay. Absolutely it plain old work and it was in retrospect a pretty genius invention, it's probably Truman's greatest single legacy, so NATO is working and the Soviet Union falls in the nineteen eighties. So it seems like that would be a highly logical time,

for NATO, which was created to protect Europe against the Soviet Union. To dissolve absolutely, I mean that question came up very quickly after nineteen eighty nine and really dominated debate in George H. W pushes administration as the Soviet Union was breaking apart, and the question was just a very big. One which is do we need NATO anymore? We want you know we don't have this huge hulking Soviet Union with the power to expand across Europe. If anything, Russia, which inherited the Soviet Union's nuclear war. And all of its problems appear to be franking zone the right. Now for NATO, which is falling apart, and there were a lot of people saying it should simply disband that there was just no political reason. Any more

and no military reason to hold on to it, but that's not what happened. I will do tat. We all shop online and we ve all seen that promo code field taught us to check out the banks to honey. The free browser extension manually, searching for coupon codes is a thing of the past, just download honey to your computer shop like normal click, the apply coupons button and watch the prices drop, its one hundred percent free to use and installs in just a few seconds, get honey for free.

Join honeyed outcome: Slash daily, that's join honey, dot, com slashed Daily David, what happens to NATO after the Soviet Union, false or rather than disband? Michael, it actually expanded. Many of the former soviet republics who suddenly finding themselves independent Poland in Hungary, the Czech Republic, all the countries that made up or the countries that make up the old Warsaw Pact were suddenly thinking themselves, I didn't want to be alone, they wanted to be part of the west, and so they applied for membership of NATO and the big question was Should NATO led them in, even if that risk, making Russia paranoid and how does NATO and the EU s its lead? Sponsor respond to their desire to join their word debates about individual countries in their work

some debates were basically said. If the Russians came and knocked off this tiny little country like Estonia or Latvia, with the way here? Would we, we go to war. Would we really invoke article five to come to their defence, in the end people decided that the symbolism of having old members of the Warsaw Pact, change teams, come over to NATO was worth it even if their military contribution was pretty tiny. And what does Russia do in response to this expansion of NATO? A group that existed originally too rebuff. The old Soviet Union will initially not much until what a mere Putin became president and he viewed it as a humiliation. He viewed it as an effort to go steal from

Russia, the core, the old soviet union- and he was looking for an opportunity to get even Putin realised that article five was something that would get involved if he did a full military attack, but he's money or really the forces to sustain such an attack. So he had to come up with a really tar the kind of disruption in some way of harassing these countries some way of under cutting their institutions somewhere of making people no longer coffin their governments without actually bringing about an invocation of article five. First, he started rebuilding his nuclear.

Voices and then he started in with the cyber attacks a very day, one against Estonia. Estonia face a major crisis in two thousand seven when it became the first country to experience a massive cyber attack which took down Estonia is, mill bank in newspaper servers. Another very big one against Georgia in two thousand eight paving the way for military action. Russia attack Georgia's computer infrastructure, crippling the country to countries that, of course, had been all part of the Soviet Union. He did so. These of attacks on Ukraine, not a NATO member. He realized that the fact that they weren't a NATO member meant that NATO was not gonna be tempted to come to their defence and he used it as part of his petri dish the place where he could,

test out a number of ways of disrupting society. The Russians are fully aware that Microsoft products, like all software, can be used as weapons in cyber warfare. He brought down the electric power grid in Ukraine twice Of course. He metal the bit in their alike foods as well. Look at what Russia has done so far. There are accused of having interfered, we're. Having tried to interfere in German, french, British and U S elections. There is some evidence that he tried to meddle in the bricks of vote. In Britain he attempted and failed to meddle in the last french election he's been trying this in Germany and, of course, Michael. He made his. Longest effort to meddle in elections here in the United States in twenty sixteen using many of the techniques that he had perfected

against NATO and other eastern european countries and former soviet states. President trap is slamming sum of America's allies. Today during a high stakes, NATO in Brussels. Ok, so here we are now in twenty. Eight ten and leaders from the NATO countries have just gathered for a summit in Brussels and President Trump is continuing to go after the military alliance. What exactly is president trumps objection to it or prison from his head? Several objections to NATO over the years. His first one is that is really expensive, and many countries are not paying what they should. Rightly many countries hours a tremendous amount of money for many years back where

doing when United States for them and his second one is. He doesn't believe that the United States gets very much out of these alliances where protecting Germany were protecting. France were present everybody, and yet we are paying a lot of money to protect. This has been going on for decades. He simply believes it costs a lot and that the benefits to us are The measure and probably negative Is there any merit to his argument that the? U S is giving more than a gets when it comes to NATO? Michael is certainly some married to the argument that the United States gives the lie to NATO and the european countries. Don't sacrifices much in their own defence and that's not an argument that is new to don't trust our freedom and free and we ve gotta be willing to pay.

Before the assets. The personnel training nets required to make sure that we have a credible NATO force. Iraq Obama, used to make that argument, and that's why NATO countries got pressed to contribute more to their military forces during Obama's time so there is nothing new when they certainly nothing wrong. Donald Trump fundamental complaint. What is different is that president from is the first american president to say: if this doesn't change on me, terms, I mean I've come to your defence. When that moment com I mean ignore article five wow and trumpet He said that present from said to me Maggie Haven during the presidential campaign, when I asked him what he come to the defence of our small farmers,

We had stayed like Estonia or something if they were attacked by Russia. He said the first thing. I would do his check and see whether they fully paid up in what he calls NATO dues, but what the rest of the world knows is just their spending on defence, for he was essentially saying that if they call us fire department before the truck was sent out, some one was gonna, look up and see whether or not they pay their taxes. No one's ever heard. An american president talk like that before that, in a time of emergency, he might think about not committing

american defenses to help a NATO ally deep from everything. You said, a lot of these original NATO countries and later NATO countries rushed to the organization seeking defence from first the Soviet Union and now Russia and still live under the protective umbrella of NATO. So if they are not willing to pay the amount of money that the? U S, expects of them. Isn't that a legitimate grievance on the part of President Trump, given that they still benefit from data, he certainly got a very legitimate point. If he's president's have that they need to go, carry their own way. Now. Their response to this is hey. We ve not only carried our own way. We ve come in invoke article five to help you in fact, the only time article five was ever involved Nato's history was right after nine. Eleven

and then NATO countries went in with the United States, some in large numbers and Simon, pretty small numbers into both Iraq and Afghanistan. Now they're public's came to later on conclude that the United States its had used the nine eleven attacks a way to justify a truly unwise war in Iraq and the politics of going into Iraq. That's been pretty poisonous to their future contributions to their defence budgets and it has made them, twice about the wisdom of simply letting the United States draw them around as NATO decide what conflict to enter and which ones not to ask NATO leaders arrived for there to day summit in Brussels. President Trump rocks the alliance with the accusation that Germany is quote totally controlled by Russia,

sad when Germany makes a massive oil and gas deal with Russia, where you're supposed to be going against Russia and Germany pays billions and billions of dollars a year to Russia. So we started by talking about these three countries- the? U S, Russia and Germany as being the three countries that explain the beginnings of NATO and I'm struck that the news out of the NATO summit today was that tromp was going after Germany. Saying that it was under the control of Russia, for Germany is totally controlled by Russia because they will get it from sixty to seventy percent of their energy from Russia and a new pipelines leave. What was that about? That seems like the ultimate insult to deliver at a name,

summit was the ultimate insult and it may have had more to do with his differences with Angela Merkel, the Chancellor of Germany. Then it did with any true belief, but the core of the argument was Germany gets an overwhelming amount of natural gas. The fuel with warm in the winter from Russia and has now been a new pipeline that will bring it indirectly from Russia, and his basic argument is how can you argue that you're standing up against Russia, when you are funding Russia, because Russia is overly dependent on its energy, words and winder vulnerable to the Russians, who can simply turn off the vow and well the reaction from Germany, it led many I question whether or not president from fundamentally believes in the NATO mission and lots of

question, and I was at a conference of Europeans last weekend where I'd never before heard people quest in whether or not they should go forward. Thinking that the United States would be the case or of a future NATO and for the first time I heard them debating Could we continue with the NATO that didn't have the? U S at the center and one in which the United States wasn't the dominant voice in defence policy, potent and tromp automate. Helsinki friendly on July. Sixteen just days after the president, Attends the NATO summit with America's closest allies, the president predicted that meaning couldn't quote, maybe they easier of office at dance he has scheduled on his trip David. I want to ask you about what's happening right after this NATO meeting ends, which seems particularly curious, given the history that you just outline for us right after this meeting ends

Brussels President Tromp is going to meet with Putin. What do you make of this timing? The problem isn't the meeting my The problem in their mine is Donald Trump message if he was Lee the NATO to stand up to Putin and say we're not going to tolerate the meddling in elections and we're not gonna tolerate. The continued a patient of Crimea and the harassment is Ukraine? If that was his message, I think we'll be fine. With the meeting happening right entered NATO, their problem is they don't actually believe that doubt from is going to stand up to Putin and their somewhat horrified at the imagery of him, beating up publicly on television against his allies and then embracing an autocrat.

HU as put dissidents and reporters to death and is increasingly cracking down in his own country? So it seems like we find ourselves in a really interesting place where the country that NATO was formed to protect against is at its most aggressive and decades, and the country that created NATO is seemingly the least committed its ever it's a pretty rich irony that at the moment that we learn that the cold war may not be over that. It may just be entering a different kind of days that the United States is questioning the very premises on which it created NATO and that the russian

have been successful in sewing more and more discord throughout Europe and helping exaggerate each of these schisms, but no one's exaggerated. Those schisms more then, president, from himself not by questioning whether the NATO nations are contributing amounts that are perfectly legitimate question to raise? But quite whether or not he would even stick with the alliance and that's the central issue David. Thank you very much. Thank you might Here's what else you need to know! Germany is just a little bit about one percent. Worse united.

Actual NOS four point, two percent larger GDP. So I think that's abruptly roles the times, reports that behind closed doors on Wednesday press tromp suggested that NATO allies increased their military budgets not to the two per cent of their economies that they previously pledge to work towards, but to four percent. A figure that NATO Secretary General sought to downplay. Well, I will focus on what we have agreed, that we have agreed to be committed to the pledge increasing the fence beneath the Jupiter, and let's start with that sort of way. To go, but the president did sign onto a NATO declaration emphasising strength and burden sharing within the alliance and harshly criticising Russia for annexing Crimea

that's it for the deal. I'm Uncle Bob sealed as a surgeon, and president of Howard, University, Doktor Wayne, Frederick, believes even are tough. His times can lead to strike and change this is a difficult stormy do it, but it was strengthened in a way that no classroom activity could ever have I'm only shipper host of the past. That mean all the difference I talked to achieve is about how their managing the current moment and charging a course with future, find that made all the difference anywhere. You get your podcast created by Bank of America