Who are the 500 private citizens with unprecedented access to President Trump on the weekends? And what is the “deep state”? Guests: Scott Shane, who has covered national security and the U.S. intelligence community for The Times for decades, and Nicholas Confessore and Maggie Haberman, who unmasked the secret list of Mar-a-Lago members. For more information on today’s episode, visit http://nyti.ms/2lEWRbt.
This is an unofficial transcript meant for reference. Accuracy is not guaranteed.
From the New York Times. I'm Michael Barbaro. This is the daily today, as the White House battles week after week, is there an organized network trying to undermine the Trump presidency from inside the? U dot S government, then, who are the five hundred private citizens with unprecedented access to Donald Trump on the weekends the x unmasked the secret list of MAR a Lago members, it's Tuesday February, 21st
Yes, you do
Yes, of course, very versus I've gone to all of the folks in charge of the various agencies and where I've actually called the Justice Department to look into the leaks, those criminal lakes. In recent days, we started to hear talk of a possible explanation for this cascade of guns
leaks that have so inflame president Trump since his inauguration. We are looking into that very seriously. It's a criminal act, leaks of his executive orders before their issued of classify conversations with foreign leaders and of infighting inside the White House. The source were told me be something that could define this new presidency as much as the president himself. It's called the deep
state some supporters of tramp, including bright partners, are now accusing the intelligence agencies of attempting to wage a deep state coup against the president. The American.
State of government agencies and military intelligence as it affects gone to war with Donald Trump. I think it's really the deep state versus than the president. They typically exercise their power in secret in the dark. The deep state is the notion that leaders come and go, but there's a permanent bureaucracy and oftener refers to the security bureaucracy, the military intelligence agencies and that they can go on scotch hyenas cover national security and the? U S intelligence community for decades and that you know that in some ways what happens at the top of a government may be to a greater or lesser degree window dressing
and that you know beneath the surface are the real powers that decide what's gonna happen and that sometimes discard the the nominal leaders and replace them by what, with somebody else, an example that sort of close to my heart. I lived in russian report from Moscow in the garbage off here, and it was in a very tumultuously time when a centrally people were overthrowing peacefully the Communist Party in the south.
He had stayed, the KGB was denounced publicly and you know a lot of us thought wow, you know. Well, that's over the soviet system is gone. The KGB
Is it not a look? Well then, you know what happens basically, almost a decade pass and then who becomes president well a kind of mid level. Cage begun aims, led him repugnant, and you know I think that was very much the deep state resurfacing to take control, but I think that's what we, what we mean by deep it serve buried down there and everyone's rollicking sort of rise up and assert its power. So is that what's happening right now in the United States? While I think there is a huge difference between a country like Russia and the United States, and we may have a deep state, but it's not nearly as powerful as it is in many other countries
There are so many competing power centres here that you know the suggestion that the deep state is one thing: it's a sort of unified shadow. We won't you guys, you know who said
round in saying will now we're gonna make our move we're going.
Your Donald Trump, I just think that's bogus when applied the United States. I think it it sort of
This represents the reality of how this country operates, but you know I M reminded of way back in the nineties when I was at the bottom or Senate. I did a serve explanatory series about the National Security Agency and there was
Deputy director of say, who'd been there for many many years and he was a bureaucrat he was a you know, sir permanent there, and usually the head of an essay is a general and admiral who come
in for a term of three years or five years, so that the directors come and go, but the deputy directors stay for much longer, and you know people told me that this deputy director would wait for a year or two to see whether he could trust the new director plough or he would let the new director of the inner say in on some of the more sensitive programmes that the agency was running. Now, that does give you a sense of how the deep state can operate. You know in a place like the site, but I don't think it's it's a term that describes what really happening in the. U S for those parts, and yet it feels like there is something distinct going on here and I guess that gets back to what Trump has done
and it is perhaps to have essentially question the fundamental workings of government bureaucracy. Right yeah, I mean you know. It is certainly true that there are people upset with the new administration which, to some degree you know, is always true. This is just a much more dramatic. Obviously, change of direction which produces more leaks. I mean under under Bush. We learned,
That the CIA had secret prisons that the CIA was using so called enhanced interrogation techniques. You know which were
Centrally, in many cases, torture, the an essay was eavesdropping inside the United States without court orders, without once all those things came from leakers. So I think we are seeing a sort of the traditional leaker whistle blower role, which is a standard part of the food
shooting of american citing american government. I think we're just seeing that sort of on steroids for a while and finally to using the more calling here.
Although this is an evolving phrase, the deep state is it trying to end the presidency of Donald Trump, or is it just trying to find ways to hold it accountable to hold it in check? I think you know that's the problem with calling something in the: U S, the deep state you know, because their basically individual scattered through the government, so
We are determined to end Donald Trump Presidency and will do everything they within their power to till you, no help with that cause. Others totally accept the idea. The trumpets president may admire certain things about him, but you know they have a program
that they don't want to die or they have another program they want to promote, but I do think the you know the tensions between the bureaucracy and the president may be greater at this moment than in any other time in modern american history, and so it does seem very likely that they're gonna be some real collisions. You know before they work out some kind of way of working with one another to make the government function. Scott. Thank you very much thanks, Michael we'll be right back,
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MRS States in the world more alive. It's the crown.
In a vast, real state empire. It is one hundred ten thousand square feet of opulence that has been paid state.
We restored to its original condition by a famous
this man who knew a good thing when he saw it purchased by Donald Trump and nineteen eighty five,
I think more logo is certainly the most spectacular state in the United States and interesting we would Prince Charles came to Palm Beach, came to play polo
and to Morrow Logo, and the first thing he did ya. Gonna say you may be the only person I know
As the house is nicer than this meaning Buckingham Palace
Well, I'm not so sure about that. Thirty
one years later, Trump is president and moral logo is his weekend retreat. So it's a private club that was initially a private property by Marjorie Meriwether Post. My colleague, Maggie Government covers the White House and she's been tomorrow. She was is essentially it and she had this vision of turning this property into literally
winter White House. That was what you talked about. That's why she donated to the federal government. The federal government had so no interest, so tromp was able to purchase it after negotiating and he was very clever about how we did it, but he was able to kind of back the government into a corner by picking up different parcels,
in the nineties when he was facing various, I believe, very various bankruptcies. He turned it into a private club members only club, since Trump selection report,
I've been trying to figure out who else shares the estate with them? People will
to pay membership fees of up to two hundred thousand dollars a year, Maggie obtained a list of the members and worked with political reporter Nick confiscated to track them down
So when you can walk into this place, hang out in this place and see the present just like that, because it is his home
These also he's really proud of it. I was there right.
For New year's when he was still the President Elect. I went to someone's guest and trumpet I have a complex,
relationship as subjecting reporter
to you, as as he does with many report,
to have covered him rigorously, but have also cover him for
long time, and he was he was right.
I saw him there, but he was. He was clearly very proud of it. You know he's doing what he would. He often does when you're around him in one of his proper disease kind of showing you things and playing tour guide. It doesn't do this really as president anymore, but he used to work.
From tabled a table like a greater he loved
is being around people, he loves the constant inputs and contacts and, and he likes hosting this big party. So who are the members of MAR a Lago? Well, it's a mixture of old trump friends and new Trump friends. Doctors, lawyers,
we should say in a most of these members. Are our members as a social club first, but it it happens that they also have these political and policy interests that are going intersect with
residents role, and now they have this unprecedented and totally amount of words for it, because there isn't anything like this in presidential history
it is a summer residents or winter White House for the president. Were people pay to come visit him and that has never existed for any american present, including all the rich ones we ve had with mansions, who would retreat to Hyde Park or Kenny Bung Port and do the people's business? This is different. You have that and then people
hey to come, see you in a race is if Crawford or somehow, charging rent, while George W Bush was in residence, sets right, yeah, that's exactly right. According to the club officials interest, despite since he became president
so there is clearly some value added proposition for some people, whether its doing business or just proximity to power. But it does raise this this interesting question, especially because
Unlike the White House, where we get visitors logs, we have no idea who is going in and out of our logo, because the membership list is not public. We were able to review three different versions of it by members can also bring guests and that's not public at all, and so you could be a member and have as many as ten guests tonight and that's.
Look it, so you guys have talked both of you to a bunch of these members. What are they ve been telling you about their experience at the club recently said. No, thank you and hung up
ass. We didn't know. Do you say that has become a different experience, that it is much more crowded? I spoke to Jeff Green.
Who is a billionaire a realistic developer. He said he likes it. He said he just finds it sort of India.
King and he likes being around Trump in that setting. He described trump to me at the time. As you know, it sort of like going to Disneyland knowing that Mickey Mouse is there.
He did not mean that offensively, he really didn't, but he is emblematic
give a lot of experience as a people are having their dying.
To be around him on a normal day, because he's a celebrity and is the owner of the club, and now it's just taken on
different patina remember saw eunuch whether one
you have talked to us. I have said this is a social club near we're not there to see trump. So there are there a bit defensive about the idea that this is about proximity to power, but it's interesting.
Activity can breed influence in ways are. Otto is intended by the people who were in your buys one great anecdote for Modular Frank who Maggie spoke to richer Lafrance, who is this develop
from New York was another one of these snow birds who goes down to Florida hitherto under the President and Mr Trump card brings up the wall like how to build walls. Mexico, though, all the while an he s, welcome you can't do it Richard Serra prices too much, and he so would you would you consider this to be clarified?
this in turn to developer and ran tat moment or other guests and says I guess somewhat playfully, but who knows? No, I can't
just a little behind the tree. Malaga agrees with Mr Le Frank said I'd heard about from someone else, and I I called him to talk to him about it.
He seemed a little startled and I knew about it and he was also a little startled at the trumpet set it
He does it as a very brief passing moment in a cynical
station. There was a social call that he was paying to tramp and he is, he is truly a friend of drums where they were talking about. That has Trump brought up the wall and he said that he had seen estimates that he
absurd, like twenty billion dollars with laws would be, and he said you know do, would you consider doing it and the freshness said certified? I thought you were having.
The department of secondary already dealt with this interim said yes, yes, I may have Gerald Kelly call you Kelly, meaning deployment opponents, Curdy Chief John Kelly, and the fact made clear to me that he has no interest in doing this. He was struck by how his his friend, who is used to being a sort of this get. What I want when I want developer, is at the mercy of this massive procurement process and is discovering that the gears of government turn
pretty slowly. The story with with a frank, actually makes interesting point as well, which is, as is not necessarily a den of corruption right, but it shows that in his way, trumpets, shorter, parochial and is New York circle. His personal circle is sort of his political circle and his presidential circle, so the people he seeks for advice, other people within arms reach. So the big and may be somewhat unanswerable question is: are these members actively angling for influence with the president or with his aids when they're down there do? We know we don't know for sure, but I think its clear that they have influence even if they aren't angling for it? That's. Why are they are present there being asked their advice? I major initiatives and they could give good advice.
But again this intersection here of the public and the private and the personal and public policy is unprecedented in american history. There was a pretty remarkable Siena Marilla go about a week or so ago that illustrated all the quandaries of having the presidency move to a numbers,
club. Has lots of people were outside of the presidential orbit, which was that the Prime Minister of Japan, shins, obey and doll tromp learn about Lee Ballistic missile launch out of North Korea in real time? Well, how should we think about the
that occurred there. I don't think the problem is that it occurred there. Then the problem is that the continued over their stakes on the patio. There is a problem of sort of government as like
or theatre for them or log attendees and thereby was what this was
this guy who posted like play by plays on Facebook of
here. They are here somebody using an Iphone flashlight to help Trump C documents, better levels whose
fishermen, are posing with the person who carries a nuclear codes strike in right. I think Americans may question that. I want to ask you both how central you think,
Lago is going to keep being to the Trump presidency extremely. I think it's gonna be the White House two or three days a week and on vacation
for the next four years. I've been covering this man, for you know it in various points for twenty years issue
Does the happiest I've ever seen him when he is there? He is relax he's
to move around my lawyer. He gets to just gonna be free. He is now
somebody who really likes going out to other people's restaurants, he likes being at his own property. Is he always has he flew home almost every night during the campaign to sleep in his own bed? This is a place where he can be little fear. Thank you both thank you and thank you, Michael.
Here's. What else you need to know today, so I just do
wanted to announce
working all weekend
gently very hard. After a highly public search, President Trump has chosen a replacement for Michael Flan, general HR master will become
the National Security adviser man of
and his talent and tremendous experience. The president announced the choice on Monday from moral logo president. Thank you very much. I just like to say what a privilege it is to be able to continue serving our nation. I am grateful to you for that opportunity and I look forward to supporting the national security team and doing everything I can to advance and protect the interests of the american people. Thank you very much later. Here is what we know.
About my master. He wrote a book dereliction of duty about the failure of american generals to stand up to civilian superiors during the Vietnam WAR, and he openly criticised decisions made by the second Bush White House in order.
We were like a blind man mcmasters in trying to do the right thing, but breaking a lot of things. Finally, and so today, is my privilege- or we have presented, drop, to express the strong commitment of the United States to continued cooperation and partnership with the European
in Europe. Vice president, MIKE Pants is trying to reassure american allies that, despite whatever President Trump has said, the U S is still committed to major economic and military power.
Ships in the reach. Whatever our differences are. Two continents show the same here, the same values and, above all, the same purpose: to promote peace and prosperity through freedom, democracy and the rule of law and to those objectives we will remain committed, but back in the: U S from further complicated Penzance message by suggesting there was a terrorist
back in the european country of Sweden. There was not, and by declaring on Monday that refugees in Sweden are responsible for a surgeon crime there. There is no evidence of that. That's it. For the day I Michael by suitable
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Transcript generated on 2020-07-19.