Up work once to let you in on a little secret. It's all made up the ninety five workday commuting back in earth relocating talent your corporate headquarters. Why are you still work in that way when you could just make up something better without work? You can change. The way we work and higher up work allows you to have trusted expert talents of that you can access the right skills at the right time and build your team visit upward doc to get hiring from new york times. I'm sabena tavern easy, and this is a daily as budget praetor- makes his case for the war in ukraine to the russian people he's using Unexpected too cranium children. You quit thousands of them, mostly orphans, had been. We look. to russia were there. in russian families and pervaded some television today.

My colleague Emma tells the story of one of those children it's friday, marster, so emma, usually when we talk but the war in ukraine. We talk about battles and weapons and military strategy, but you ve been reporting on a very different kind of campaign by russia, in this campaign, involve children. Tell me about this reporting. His eye was covering the news about ukraine last summer, and I started seeing this prudish working allegations by ukrainian authorities that russia was takin ukrainian children without

Their parents to russia, and sometimes placing them in russian families and given them up for adoption in emma to be clear accusations, were that russian soldiers were taking ukrainian children back to russia who, at that time decisions were really vague. So was russia is taken ukrainian children, but we did not know exactly where they were taken there to where they were taken them from how they were being taken and who is taking them, and that's what I want to figure out too. You know and if I at least some cases two reports was happening and how you started looking into it. What were you saying? First, the brenner. It look like there was pattern of systematic removal of ukrainian children, many from group homes that very common in ukraine or

it is our institutions that care for children who are not necessarily orphans, and they were relocating than to russia with the plan to give them rush, citizenship and placing them in russian families and ukrainian, already say that, while the majority of these children who have been forcibly taken to russia were orphan Is there were many who were also taken from their parents separates from their parents at filtration, points, or like relatives are like family who would be ready to take them back in ukraine. so essentially, not all of these children were necessarily abandon. In some cases, ukraine's actually seeing russia separated them from their parents. Gas dear thing in some cases, their parents were imprisoned and did the children were taken to russia? Well, what's the scale

how many children are we talking about here so from the beginning it seemed like a pretty serious Problem, because both Russia and ukraine kind of that deny that it was at least a thousand children. Probably many more bad. Ukraine says that russia stick in sixteen thousand children. How well that's a lot of children yeah. This is just the number that ukraine is able to verify you know they know it actually the name of these children where they were from where they are, and they say, These children are mostly orphans. So russia's as it at least two thousand ukraine says it's morlocks Thirteen thousand. So the very least we can say this is thousands of children yad, but I wanted to understand what was the actual experience of one of these children, because you know russians

They agreed that this would happen and on a big scale, but they were portraying what was happening in very different ways that ukraine these were stolen, kidnapped children and to russia, disparate rescued children. So I wanted to speak to one child, to understand what was their actual except as of this interesting, because both sides essentially I did not disagree that this was a big thing that was going on, but they totally disagreed about what it was that was going on yeah, exactly so third, the direction, our two children. What had some experience with this transfer to to russian controlled areas and as I interviewed them? Many of them two point me in the direction of one girl who was still in russia on you and with my colleague billina lab seen from the moscow bureau we managed to find on yeah social media

and slowly over weeks. She told her story. Tell me about it so is a fourteen. Now, fifteen year old girl and to reconstruct. Story, we spoke to her over months. But we also spoke to her friends and we had access. I'm core documents and soap her Worry is the story of a child from eastern ukraine who, some months before the war started was actually flagged too. crane social services as living in a family in which parents avoided fulfilling parental responsibilities. And what does that mean? I couldn't documents they describe. Our house has been unfit to welcome children. Her mother was disable than she was out of work, so they moved her,

the sanatorium. This is something that is very common in ukraine, so before the war more than that- he thousand children were living in. To this is a heritage from this. The era in which there was and I d that, like the state, can care for the children families who cannot afford to care for them or if the child they border as other issues, the state can care for them better than their family, and so on was among those ninety thousand ukrainian children who were wards of the state or were living in institutions for some other reason The idea was living in a group home in the city of Mario Paul and so children who were with her in this group, harm this five there as a shy girl with a passion for drawing and for reading fairy tales, either by

south or to a younger child, that she was kind of being like an older sister for an shoes they freely carrying with her and affectionate so what happens to on you when the war breaks out, I mean we know Mary. Opel was just pummelled by russian forces. Yet so such children can manage to recognize with their parents and leave this group home in my report that Albania, what hadst product and the remainder does not manage to make contact with her or get picked up by her. Is that, together with about Sixteen other children she hides in the basement of this group home and that that actually turn smart idea, because shells fall near some of the building. Of this group home and after some days of hiding,

One volunteer from our you paul, finds the children in this group home and decides to evacuate them too. them away, because it was extremely dangerous at this time and so he put them on an ambulance and wants to take them. This operation and other city ukraine that was considered safer than bad as they had out of the sea team they get stuff. That a check point, because morocco was already under russian siege and dare not let through. So as the children wait for disease, to be made about. What's gonna happen to damn everyone whom I spoke. to who was their described, the group of pro russian officials storming, in and tunnels deciding that these children are going to go into russian control territory instead of going to say

part of ukraine well and Annie and the other children were put an abbas had a deeper into russian control territory? so these we're in a vehicle headed toward ukrainian territory were actually taken out of the vehicle and put on a bus headed to russian territory. Yeah think back me from their anger, russia. The unease hold is that no one really asked if she wanted to go to russia and she called the friend and she cried because she didn't want to be there. hmm so first, she spent some time in some cams or rehabilitation facilities as they called them, and then she gets moved into a foster family and what was that foster home like yesterday in her your home. There are six more children for dogs

ensure their room with two boys with chief bad. It's fine and not scary, because she's research without them to be alone. She called her father, parent and and and calm. She said during her nicely due to craft together, the good part swell the dogs and evening. But when we spoke to her last fall, she still very much wanted go back to her home and be reunited with her family. So, on what hand on has been forced to go to russia a place, she didn't want to go in the first place, but on the other hand, it's a less die and desperate picture that I was imagining a mean she likes her foster family yeah I mean there are not bring in children too, like prison can. They are very much place when two families and many times these Keimer either very well, meaning you know they haven't mix of patrick,

and love for these children, and did she go to school here The same times told us that you went to school and that you had these classes is the therapies the patriotism, classes, cold conversations about important things that were recently introduced in russia and day. You know their given these classes. They teach topics like that political situation or like traditional values, its basically to teach children how to be proud of russia. The geopolitical situation as in the war. ukraine yeah they do tat the war and d argue in vitro torres of crimea, for example, and what They tell her about the war in ukraine

We don't know this from on yeah, because it was really hard to get information from her about these causes it. But what we do know is that when she was at one of these centres for she was staying in russia before she went into the family and she told us the picture is knew more than I do about ukraine. They tell me that ukraine is really bad, that you said I dont believe and for me ukrainian. begun so they're, really trying to teach her that her own. country is a bad place and she should be glad she's in russia, yeah for sure I think the purpose is to integrate completely into russian society, and I mean the maybe congress. Evidence of that is the fact that she was given russian citizenship, so as the russian passports now so was given russian citizenship is thou usual yeah. There is like a clear intention by Vladimir putin

the rush to give citizenship to orphans from ukraine, and he did it decree to streamline this procedure in may and say you know This is just another index, Shan of how systematic russia, once this the russification of ukrainians the trend to be so, it's not just on yeah. It's all of these other children, in its directed by putin himself, but why is russia doing this like what in it for them. I think a lot of answer to this question might be in the way that russia is not hiding. The transfer of you know at least take more than a thousand children from ukraine. That kind of shows that russia, using this children as part of a propaganda pain to portray

russia saviours of the training children and of ukraine the. This podcast supported by humanity. Today's top candidates value benefits in healthcare. In years past employers might have overlooked benefits like dental envision insurance. Now those benefits can help tipp the scales in a competitive labour market that. Humanity is committed to doing more for your employees. Well being, while lowering your costs, we call that humankind. To learn more about humanity, plans for companies of all sizes and benefits budgets, visit, humane dot com, slash employer

Well, it's kyra blackwell from wirecutter the product recommendation service from the new york times and I test mattresses. Today I am testing seven mattresses, all brand concealed. It just feels like such a daunting endeavor to pick the right mattress. This mattress is very supportive. It's just as easy to shift positions considered. Nearly four dozen foam, innerspring and hybrid mattresses were looking out for edge support, motion, isolation and firmness levels. We aren't cross referencing our data between testers, which includes people of all different shapes sizes and sleep preferences when it came right up at box that smells like lavender, I'm not sure how long it'll last I finished compiling all of my testers surveys. One tester noticed the mattress had something to give an underlying firmness and support at wirecutter. We do the work, so you don't have to for independent product reviews and recommendations for the real world. Come visit us at n y times dot com, slash wire cutters feels very squishy, but in a good way so emo before the break, you were telling me that there had been.

thousands of ukrainian children taken to russian territory and that this act Russia was largely for propaganda purposes. You said that they were trying to their war as a humanitarian mission. Who exactly is russia too, to hear and in what is it trying to sell? Who said this reallocation of ukrainian children? fits really nicely into a propaganda targeted at domestic ends and russia, because this war is poor, than the idea that ukraine doesn't really exist and that ukraine is just a part of russia that ukrainian identities and real and dad in all russia's doing is good. thing. Historical mistake: by making ukraine a part of russia again so the message is that these children are russian and going back to where they belong

This is something the putin has been arguing all along right, that you know Essentially, there is no ukraine that it's just russia in that it has these strange habits, but it really is in belongs to russia. Yeah spoke to a mother? Who, you know told me that she into her family for children from ukraine and she's. She told me we're not taking anything that is not ours and in achieving likened. What family did to what russia is doing because russia, next for territories and our family, to care for children. So it's there really like a parallel between the vacant brought the idea of a war in which he and russian is rescuing crane and his family's rescue these children, and I think that These children are actually a very effective way of doing this because you know often

They were not torn from her families. Many of them were orphans or living in state run facilities before the war. So they have like a stronger case, arguing that russia is giving a family and a loving family to children who would otherwise have none. So then she really is using these kids to make an argument to the russian people about. Why, War is just then write. What forms does that take like what are they saying exactly in where they sing it here? There is an abundance of videos and articles and state media

you know, show how to children arriving to russia and the police in russian family is so often these children are right by train or by airplane and are received by tv cameras there given teddy bears no interviewed saying how happy they are to be in russian family. We're done wrong. We must also certain events in dozens of into lots of whisky, water and unity. Did the casinos documentaries that was widely circulated, especially in russian controlled areas of ukraine, that documentaries about the kids, yeah,

it's a series of videos about like several kids that were taken into russian families, then I played console video. You know they describe kind of like your daily life and out again happy. They are to be in a russian family, eight dollars. Ninety nine for mama and papa, and in this video there is a lot of emphasis on the traumatic Children have been through, and, for example, like this. in one of these videos on the whole tribunes on open some foster parents or adoptive parents, take these children. Ukraine to it looks like a war simulation. They come in a playful like war simulation, but the children get scared and beg feed. Your shows the children crying and if projects like

and wide images and like war and destruction to advocates may be what these children might be thinking about, and you know the brush and parents promptly come, stan onto my visited criminal, a bunch of my. So you know, I think it's kind of fear They want to emphasise the fact that russian family is our have finally provided. A safe, comfortable environment. It is children whose annual billina it's a door manoeuvre just as strong as- and I think that you know russia kind of like forgets to say that, while helping these children like few months before, like in the case of honour, it was bombed, bang the homes. David staying I mean it's just very deeply: cynical use of these children,

one of them. I think he was like a grudges. Examples is this russian official who has coordinated this. Location efforts by russia, and she herself adopted- child from our EU palm and she talks him a lot on state media and sheep tell me how this child in the beginning was. You know, and talking about the fact that you want the prove ukraine, protests and how alike in the beginning he was like sitting alone like missing. Is hull drop is friends from our you paul, but then how they time he came to appreciate you home in russia and in July, when the first batch of ukrainian children obtain russian citizenship in damascus region

officials posed in this photo ops with ten the russian officials in official state man. She said in our eyes, recognized these kids from when we traveled in april on the train. Now our little fellow citizens. It just seems like fun, mentally, is bringing the whole mythology and thrust of the war Why Putin started it full circle right, Ukraine is in place exists at all, ukrainians, exists there, actually russians and look what we have here. We bunch of little russians yeah, I don't know. I think it's I'd interesting, how she herself scan of illustrates what russia wants with these children, which is basically, I cut them off from their original nation and just turn them into russian citizens, actually tat something that ukrainian

shows consider as a way in which russia can make it even harder for them to claim them back because they're saying out their russian now like. Why are you asking then why are you trying to get them back? So, given that many of these children, didn of guardians when they were taken to russia. It promptly complicates the effort to have them return to ukraine right. so I guess you I'm wondering what are the ukrainians doing to get these kids back it depends. They you cleaner the urging parents, guardians family members to show up than to make appeals, because to start this process? Twittering children like it usually starts from an appeal from like a family member or like someone who's looking for these child. So you know children who done if anyone of course it's much harder to return them, because no one is actively looking for them in

kids are in that category I mean who have a current or guardian step putting claim them. I didn't in total. How many you know, have parents looking for them or guardians but like what we know is that three hundred children have already been returned out of a total of some ten thousand that ukrainian authorities about anti fine. So this number, is, is very small, so emma stepping back here I mean for children for the most part like on yahoo, taken from group homes and orphanages and placed in families in russia- and you know yes, they're being fed this russian propaganda about their own native born country, and russia, but it seems, like you know, just to play devils advocate here for a second

in potentially better and safer environment than they were before, even if it's not necessarily what they themselves would have chosen yam. What do you make of that year? I think it I think it's very complicated, and you know we did speak to a child- was happy to in russia bad, I think yeah think it's it's really not for me or for russia to decide what's better for ukrainian children, not the this. Some of these children may be present Families is not a justification to remove masses of children from a national groups- other and have them change. Nationality, arrays there damage grow up in countries in some cases has bombed homes in which they were living so an to that. I think that we actually do.

know much about the family situation potential like family ties of these children. You know- and we actually have. You know that the chief of the refugee agency said that your isn't innocently of war. You cannot really know if a child as a family, and until that is verify, and you cannot give them another nationality or have them didn't under family beam because in it, against the fundamental principles of child protections in situations of war. Is this a war crime well yeah the then united states, recently said that you know these unlawful, like transfer of children, is a breach of dead, We have a convention and constitutes a war crime in general, more widely it international community has really condemned this practice, is and this russian officials, who s been coordinating organizing this transfers was put on this

in its latest off several western countries, but you know prosecuting workers this is really horrid takes a lot of time and in the meantime, this children might grow up and for now known, Stephen rob the former. Yes stir at large for war crimes, told me that for now there is not much that ukraine can do too. Legally compel russia return, these children? and what about what's happened to her Her mother know where she is Yes, an institution situation, is very different and very difficult, so I was able to connect with her mother last fall, and had no idea, but that annually, even after I told her she's till they couldn't really believe in also you know and his mom is out of work. She doesn't really have like internet

and home- and you know for harry, just like having a trip to russia to get her back- would be like going to the moon, but despite this, in the meantime, on your mom was also officially d, at the parental rights, meaning that the government has taken away her custody, so I mean, I think, She doesn't have even monsieur le claim at this point, so yeah I can t out of her returning are in very high right now. emma. Thank you. Thank you. Sabrina

we'll be right back. here's. What you should know today in an unexpected meeting thursday at the group of twenty conference in new delhi, secretary of state, antony blinkered, confronted his russian counterpart circular frost and did that russia and its war against ukraine. It was the first private face the face exchange between a u s: cabinet member russian officials since the invasion last year. Happened. Applicants request suggesting that the buyer ministration, wants to keep lines of communication open with russia. It came

white house prepares to announce another round of military aid for ukraine. When president Biden meets with german chancellor olaf shorts on friday, and then I will rise versus richard alexander marduk, defender died for murder guilty verdict alex murder, the fourth generation lawyer, whose family long exerted influence in small towns, south carolina courtrooms, was convicted on state of murdering his wife and his son. The to seal the dramatic downfall of a man who had substantial wealth and powerful elections but who lived a secret life in which he stole millions of dollars from clients and colleagues and lied to many of those closest to him. The guilty verdict in walterboro south carolina, followed

closely watched trial that lasted nearly six weeks and came more than twenty months after the june twenty twenty one fatal shootings of murderous wife, maggie and their younger son Paul. Today's episode was produced by Michael Simon Johnson with help from Lucy. It was editor by Angela Davis Lynn and was engineered by chris, would our theme because by Jim Lambert and then lands of wonderingly The daily is made by rachel questioner, lindsey, garrison, clear tennis, gutter, age cow it Michael Simon, Johnson, brad fisher, Chris would jessica, Chung stella, tat, alexander Lee young lisa, chow air crocky. Mark george look fender fluke m J D, mrs lynne, dan pow sidney, her michael, been want less Oberlin asked such a travailing

buncher Diana win marian Lozano corey shovel. I need about a jew, rob zip code alisha that youtube move lady, patricia women's rowan newest stow, jody Becker, wreaking havoc ski John catch him nina feldman will read car create oh Ben Calhoun. Susan Lee, like cd out mary, Wilson, Alex stern, Dan feral Sophia lemon shannon lynn and diana long especial thanks descend on ec polish human lisa tobin level, anderson, Julia Simon, so few milan, my image of Lonnie does either claw Elizabeth Davis, more Jeffrey miranda, runnin, Borelli, mattie, messy, yellow and Israel. Anderson, that's it for the daily, I'm so

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