Comedians Dave Anthony and Gareth Reynolds examine James Lewis and the Tylenol Murders.
This is an unofficial transcript meant for reference. Accuracy is not guaranteed.
You're listening to the dollar, this is a by weekly american. His report has week every story from american history to my friend.
Reynolds who has no idea what the topic is going to be about you look at the ipad. You had like a cheater.
You have been using an ipad this whole time. Oh god, you want to look the one to say. This is clearly not gary gary of dave, okay, someone or something is tickling, and this is not going to come particularly clock or queens. Uptown. All our way of life bell a bunch of religious virgins, go to mingle and do what re done for the forty six nice theater lewis was born in Memphis tennessee. I don't think his last name was louis here. That seems to be a mistake. I mean okay. Theodore was born in Memphis tennessee, his parents were migrant workers after the fam family moved to waco texas,
She'll be wacko, considering recent history ass, his dad just up and build on the family. Ok
a few months later. Theatres mom took off. Also, I don't think, that's ok, I think that's kind of like a race.
the one person like later, I doubt I'd like it's like when you
somebody like an empty beer just so they hold that new and have to throw it out right like using
the problem anymore. Aren't you gonna throw out at your thing of James who's, the attire
and his two sisters, who were seventy nine in a transient mode.
outside of Joplin reserve literally, the elder is nine. Yet
so the man left two girls, seven and nine, and a toddler in a transient hotel in joplin. Missouri of all this is gonna work out. Fine social workers took the kids and immediately split them up. That's what you did at that time: break up the family without the family, yep the brig big brothers agency and were placed in charge of theater and then
and I'm a new home with floyd and charlotte lewis. Okay, because theatre's life had already been a nightmare, they decided the best thing to do would be to rename him James Lewis, okay, people, it's not a cat, I would feel, but I would even feel weird doing it to an animal.
Animals, no they're, fucking name, you can reach out cats. You can, but at fucking
human jose changes, they name since the election of transferring yeah he's now Joe say,
and is doing an accent is still coming from. I already reported no so james going to take a couple of guys to carry them. Yeah I mean look, it's going to be
It's is be hard, he's he's now in a situation. We have to call the fire department to get him out, but I'm not leaving unless there's food or oxygen, I'm one james grew up close to a chemical plant that made explosives.
Guys ever now of iran is near. Mom worked in a shirt factory am debt is dad, was a sharecropper k, Gmos not having the best time his cousin quote,
he was in a lot of trouble, a very mixed up boy. He always did things that ordinary people, wouldn't my aunt, tried to give him back to big brothers because she couldn't handle them, but they wouldn't take him back. So his adopted family try to return
him and they were told no gather
you fucked, that I know you took and no you fuck that shit. You took the empty beer cans. How long you had this! For years, this could totally fuck this up. When taken this nope. There's like a there's a time limit, did you check the time limit? We have the receipt
yeah, look at their citizens one year. We want to trade him in for another boy. We like
I went over there. You already brought this one gun, but will take to one or two you brought this. Isn't carrasco comma james mommy loves you when the james was twelve. His adopted father died. Okay, so it's like the rice hidden,
all the points. Well, not a lot of people get to lose two dads for very lucky the next five years he lived with his adopted mom and a house that had no plumbing or electricity, the fight club in it they oh Jesus. They are she remarried in nineteen sixty four. Now a teenager gym pretty much scared the shit out of his mom so much so that she started sleeping with a gun under her pillow whoa. That's real scared! This is why you don't abandon your children
joplin and die on them and try to give him back and you don't adopt. I don't know why you hate me. I just try to give you away once, but it's cool james, gaga grey.
Played trombone in the marching ban and worked on the yearbook. Things were different home, that's where he would lose. It is believed that when he was nineteen,
He chases mother around the house with an axe and was charged with
salting. His stepfather after he broke several of his ribs he's, got a new dad yag, a member. I said he ain't, she got remarried and sixty four yeah yeah right away, but wait
He doubted that one died. I know she remarried should arise.
It kill his third, I do yeah, I try to kill their data combined have a little respect. I have three
Is it a shooting number? I want my fifth dad, so he was having such our time that he tried to kill him.
By taking thirty six anderson tablets. He was then committed to a missouri
state mental hospital in nineteen sixty six and diagnosed with catatonic schizophrenia. Ok, so he's a super superiors ships for super.
James, was also smart. Kid love school. He went to the university of Missouri, kansas city,
there. He met Leon Miller and they were soon married occur whose back on track he's back on track the right back on track.
The two or social misfits. She was a small and play anymore glasses Leon deferred to Jim in
in nineteen sixty nine. They had a daughter, tori, an ok who had down syndrome, okay and tons of health issues that things
things are coming together, but they daughter,
The two started working as bookkeepers for haley's instant tax service. They managed
but they attacks is right. Now they manage the business for two years into
he's lost his shit on the owner.
The owner wanted to bring home a calculator for the night and james went bug. Fuck on
she's like this
kalkhi man, that's my girl, gay, ok.
My dog, alright, ok, tangled right, ok, ok,
were they all came out of it? You don't sleep
leap with it. You know, I think we might get you in Missouri. I dont want the calculator, an impact that a calculator it's coming out god, so he was fired for what getting
sir James ITALY, and opened a I'm assuming useful for going crazy about a calculator. Ok, so they opened their
own tax service business called louisen. Louis right,
when they were there. They met if became friendly with an older man named re. West re was also a client re. Was there too
come for them when torreon died from complications after heart surgery, December tenth. Eighteen, seventy four bully
so she was around five,
they loved her. They talk about all the time. They were completely grief. Stricken.
I continue to talk about their daughter and sharper drawings. Anyone who came in
now was a lifelong bachelor deliver this mother until she died in eighteen, seventy seven
ray was well known around the neighbourhood. He helped everybody out. Every sunday he brought newspapers to the florist. I guess that's with its back than they wrapped up flowers.
Doesn't neighbours bring him down, as that would like fish and chips in england you would be.
Did you bring them newspapers order? They just don't use newspaper some sumptuous somewhere,
not the most hygienic on July, twenty third nineteen, seventy eight he told the florist. He was feeling sick and went home ray ray west
The next day raise friend charles banker, could get a hold of him and became concerned.
he drove arrays house and found all the door's locked and the car in the garage. No one answered the door,
came. They called james to see if he knew anything and James said re gone to the ozarks for a few days with his girlfriend cops outside a good, that's a good, but it was weird charles because ray never had a girlfriend
and if he was gone away, he would tell everyone so Charles file, the missing persons report,
two days later, he went back to raise house and found no written on lewis and louis letterhead. If please slant
Let's just go ahead, I'm already flagging. This quote raise out of town until thursday
If for further information called Jim Charles called the police this time the cops forced their way in
Everything same seem fine. They. They also found a note. That said it was on the living room table. It said quote: please don't disturb until after one sleeping late raymond, who I mean
the eye when there are so many problems with idea, hey ray.
you're right that note. For you never know case people take up dead. I've just sleep like I don't know.
DR have to do Charles immediately said that was not raised
being an he never signed things. Raymond then, the next day, there's gotta be a note that, like I accept
right. These form a kind of my questions about that raymond Charles then bought new padlocks and locked all the doors now
as he was doing this james drove up to the house, got out of his car and ran up yelling. What in the hell are you doing? The right thing charles explained that he was putting on new locks. They spoke briefly, then lewis left drove around the corner and parked behind a delivery truck and watched. What was going on super not suspicious behavior, incredibly, not suspicious, so shady nothing suspicious about it
He eventually the delivery truck drove away, and he just sat there for another five minutes, don't gosh! I should move charles did not go back to raise house until august fourteenth how long of a gap as though okay, so he went missing on July twenty third cycle moto were.
where three weeks in a huff that's a long time. Yet when they arrive one charles arrived, he smells something terrible
are now upstairs. Fighting dont come out. Raymond
I searched the home and knows there were some slight differences in the bedroom. Then, when he'd been there before, then he moved the sheet and found dried blood. Now police knew they were looking for.
Body, because the dried blood and because it smelled like a dead body. Oh raving on for twenty one days at supper,
They found a lawn chair covered in blood in the basement raised to pay an eye glasses in a garbage bag. They checked the attic because there is a giant bloodstain leading up to it that they had somehow missed before once, and there was re decompose with both legs severed the hip joints and tons of blood. The ever show he had been pulled up into the attic by a harness with pulley device- oh my god
but they couldn't figure the cause of death. No wounds not trauma, wait, they couldn't figure out it the leg removed. I know
I have an ever used it. Oh god light for they did.
I was a five thousand dollar check me not to james that he would then withdrawn on the day ray disappeared. Like he's he's so fucked, I forgot the police existed. Let me tell you something about this. Guy he's a fucking, shrewd plan, a good smart, smart does not leave any track marks, allow the names red red herring james was arrested. He made excuses for everything and gave fingerprints and a handwriting sample. James said he did not have raised checkbook and then police searched his car where they found his checkbook
since free, open and shut your David, along with twenty feet of nodded white rope which italy saddling reared worthy. The rope was what was used on the police we heard and a black attaches case with pay papers bearing west name interesting and enough. That said,
murdered him out no james had he did not kill all really didn't. Do it nope didn't now all this stuff is,
easily explainable, I'm for aiming myself so is charged with capital murder, but just before the october nineteen, seventy nine trial date, the prosecutor asked for a dismissal of the case. James had a very good defense lawyer.
police. It made tons of mistakes arresting james, including not reading him. His miranda warning, which meant
All of the evidence gathered
admissible, inadmissible
and the cornerstone no cause of death. Ok, James leer quote it is one
to kill somebody, it's nice thing to dismember them after their dead and while dismembering somebody after the debt is repulsive and repugnant. It's not homicide. It's my impression that he did not do it wait. There really is no foul play prior to
raise death, so the lawyer, James lawyer, yes, says that he doesn't think he'd kill them, but that he did heat and get out of here. Take the body apart after he after that
mean, while that is
What I mean look he's a good turn the other
big is guilty of removing the legs and putting them in the attic. Some other creep killed him boy. I mean it.
The judge was probably like sorry, I'm gonna need that one more day forward
This is why we hire this demographer. Bring them
to me. I want to read it so.
Does it the losers went back to their accounting business? I'm sorry that was it there's so that they too have a job the case, because not reading miss rights gap is with effective and other things like chain of evidence of eight. They fucked up your brain
I'm gonna go get. My tax is done by that guy. You took the legs off that guided murder he's the best
They rename the canning business, no legs louis, the best. Then I would go to them
they go back to their cannon business and then they start other businesses. They had a business. They started with a pharmacist to import industrial pill, making machines that are manufactured in india. James like to brag about us international business connections,
deals, but everything he was involved in was failing. Kansas city cops thought James was running a credit fraud. Enterprise quote he would inventive.
Dress pound the mailbox into the ground, then pull him out
out of the ground and move on to the next place. So, basically he's getting credit with a thick address is putting a fuckin mailboxes, some crazy place. That looks like there's an age
there. Then they deliver the credit card aware and then he paused the mailbox out- and I mean this
next level, he's u
The same mailbox, it's fucking the best thing ever
now on his side phenomenon aside, I mean look. If you can expose that flop. I think you're allowed to call credit,
Well, let's get the mailbox get out of here.
he's also swimming clients in a land deal bleach police search designed
found evidence and issued a warrant. The losers then went on the run.
and there are sixty nine dodge rambler. They came up with a aliases robert and Nancy Richardson and moved into a small apartment in Chicago. We ain't got work, is a bookkeeper james, just read books and had highbrow discussions with neighbours.
Fine job quote. I thought he was a smartest man I ever spoke to. He always talked about money, not
Finally, having somebody used to go through the financial sections of newspapers, all the time and cut small pieces out, ok, always ass. My person this, as we know this guy he's the most annoying me
Yeah he's is the new just seconds spokesperson
asked annoying man on earth quote, it was like
went to the salvation army and bought his suits. You want to look dressed to have a tie and coat on James always acted like he had somewhere to go, though all he did was walk leanne to the bus, stop and meet her for lunch. Sometimes he'd go to her office to show her a fancy pen. He bought super proud of his hand right hand
Is it up? Let's look at that. You believe how lucky you are. I look at that. Look at that libya, the letters unbelievable penmanship you that that bring
I know they're going to see this. Oh, I made who's doing. Zs like this honestly was doing cursive come on. Give me high fives
you're right. I'm a letter thousand bucks, a letter come on man
Is there a believable? Usually my handwriting don't walk by this boy.
Again. I wish you could read that again in chile.
Emma Jane to James got a job at chicago tat service, but it didn't go well
The owner found a mistake. James had made on attacks form and James completely lost. His shit he's fired on the spot, calculator till it so
then he saw too intense work, ok, always fun. Meanwhile, things are not going well at lands job, the new owner, Fred Mackay. He was blowing it bank accounts were overdrawn and airlines had pull the agency's ticketing.
villages. He was using company money to pay his personal bills, Liane quit in April nineteen, eighty two, but before she did, she stamped a stack of blank envelopes with postage from the business meter. The postmark was April fifteenth nineteen, eighty two okay, that doesn't make any sense right now, the next week the business was shut down. The owner gave everyone final checks. They all bounced, including leanne's last check
but Leanna James had cast her check at a currency exchange when the currency exchange came asking for the money back
The louis's became quote agitated. They were
very adamant in their position that they didn't o the money that they had worked for it and that mackay he was a crook and he should have to pay. You have to ask
I read that guy that guy, though James was reading law books and he got the rest of the employees together and had them file complaints with the illinois department of labor wage claim board. Okay, so with a bunch of documents they went to the august third hearing with Oliver coworkers James was the group's spokesman.
If you wanted the wage claim officer to look. Let's let this gets a frantically, this
he wanted the wage claim officer to look at the owner's personal accounts. So he wants him to look at the case personally sure, but he can't that's beyond his scope. He can't look at personal accounts. Okay James was then told he couldn't speak because he wasn't even an employee.
And then he went in the corner and watched and then the really went against the employ a boy there why there was no money in the business accounts and that there was the other
james and Lianne. Then got into a screaming match with the owner mackay and the owner threatened leanne ugly. Around this time James got a freelance column published in the SH.
The tribunal in July, along with his photograph, it was called a slice of chicago life. Is that people watch
cut off some guys legs it with
in chicago the best pizza,
in downtown by
and who removed legs from a body, admittedly and probably murdered him.
is about you watching for ten minutes at state medicine was written, inverse one while just evangelist bull horn, blasting promises of salvation.
A one legged man walking, proud and alone. That's awkward. One information booth
the middle of the sidewalk ignored
one blue and white police car sitting anti windows open how far you getting into this
like I'm, never reading. Another word Jesus Christ, this guy's amazing. Meanwhile, James Liane paid only fifty dollars to the currency exchange and then full fledged cargo.
September third avenue name, that's new names. Fourth using
aims karen and william Wagner. They would go the wagner's the louis
the rigid sends the wagner's they bought one way: train tickets to new york city,
they checked into a shitty flee back hotel, manhood manhattan again, as robert and Nancy richards share
Ninety five per week ran ok, the anthem tempered as Nancy Richardson at
The state firm, called abrams vanish and riker. Now back in the suburbs, cod
september? Twenty ninth now this is quite some time. This is about a month later, every left,
in this venture gaga twelve year old, Mary kellerman, woke up with a sore throat. She took extra saint tylenol than collapsed and died Adam generous. Twenty seven had a cold and called insect work. He took to exercise restraint terminal
and fell into a coma alone. Fifty four m mary reiner, twenty seven just had her fourth baby. She bought some tylenol, took it and was soon in a coma.
a thirty one year, a woman's at work. When she said she was going to the back office to take some pain, medicine, she did collapsed. All these people were seen dead. The confused family of Adam janice got together that evening at five pm to talk
at funeral arrangements. His younger brother had a headache and asked his wife to get in some extra strength tylenol he took too, and so did she a few minutes later he dropped in the living room. As the paramedics took them out. She collapsed. They both died. The house was quarantined, while two firemen from different states,
you're on the phone talking about their day when they realize the similarities in the cases they both then looked at their incident reports and the only thing in common was tylenol. The police were called the tylenol from the first girl's home was found.
A police station drawer. A nurse had already grabbed the tylenol from the home, where the three JANET family members had died. A sheet
It was suspicious. They had all taken. The tyler a doctor got a poison specialists on the phone who told them to open and smell the bottles they smell. Like bitter omens,
cyanide smells do what I can remember this. What years this baby, two yeah flight attendant paula, prince, came back from a vegas,
I had that night, but extra strength, tylenol at the store. Then went home and was murdered by poisoning. She would not be found for two days.
The federal state and local law enforcement agents were mobilized. This was the first case of deadly random large scale product tampering. The Illinois attorney general tyrone foreigner was the main spokesman. He held press briefings, briefings twice a day which is great for him because he was running.
behind in his election quote was on tv every night. People who didn't know it was all of a sudden. Did we go well,
Why don't you? What made you know you,
It's through a landmine and told me to step. There are hundreds of people working on the case and it was very confusing- and I remember this before computers yeah. Could you imagine a case like this? If you're a cop or the f b, I everybody's coming in, he has no way to fucking yeah, really community yeah, oh and some law enforcement started withholding information, so they could be the one solve the case. Always good always that's your heart's in the right
as there was as hacky as it sounds, a difficult relationship between the f b I and the local cops well dave. I mean, I think we can all see how that plays out the local cops. Are there
it's come in. They shot him down the small town share of of of the sudden as vendetta he's gonna be the hero. In the end, these they just cake
their heads at our asses, the small town guy article.
he's gonna proven wrong and perhaps get offered to be an fbi
At the end of all this and say you know what I I'm happy here: officials focused on getting tylenol off, store shelves and recalling bottles, Mary Jane burn, called for the removal of all terminal products from chicago during a press conference. This started a global panic about talent.
to island headquarters. Look good as that. What good what glad I didn't go with vitamin c. What's happening. Towels makers, Johnson and Johnson really didn't want to do a recall.
Just sniff them is it so hard to just ask you guys to sniff them before you take them if they smell like nuts they're, not start time guys. Look, our saying is: if it smells like almonds, you will be
by that bottle, but if not finally, the company
the pressure and offered a hundred thousand dollar reward for info on the killings. The company then set up labs and began a long process of testing capsules for contamination. Investing
It looked into if it had been done by been done to manipulate johnson and johnson stock. They looked at into the puerto rican terrorist group. F, a l, n or disgruntled employees everywhere on the drug chain were investigated. Advil Advil, the advil or the advil
shoplifters stores where the tylenol were purchased were investigated cars that had been taken it
by were checked out. Family members and friends of victims were looked into now.
Where, where all that they're all coming from a
one source. They don't know they don't know that
no now have they have the large numbers of the poison capsule. How widespread is
If this is just one means most of the chicago okay right, okay, after the first week, they were getting nowhere. They really thought some evidence would come, but nothing they must have had headaches, everyone, a headache, but no one wanted to take aspirin. None of the
also vital thing: how hard is it to put cyanide on elements we come on
no brainer he's here. You're gonna be fine, but trust me. I was alive and none of us took any pain pills for awhile.
Wherever yeah, right and- and that was the only thing on market was tylenol. I don't think there was really there wasn't a bear, I think was around yet, but everyone's like
screw. You bear we'd rather have headaches now know I love a love of medicine created by the nazi party. I'm sorry, so, apparently a lot of my of the whole german thing. You know
is there anything on earth that isn't totally fucked up after the first week the investigation is getting nowhere. They really thought some evidence would come, but it wasn't coming. None of the boxes, bottles or capsules had usable fingerprints. The working theory was that the murderer had gone to each store, bought, bought the pills, then emptied out capsules and then filled them a cyanide. Oh god, return return. The box to the store shelf gluing it. So these are like
EL caps right beside the says, like the open, a bull caps here, while always act there just say I thought maybe like the actual ass,
we just had like cyanide on it, now he's filling capsules episodes. So that's why that explains: dropping dead immediately, oh yeah and the media were being pushed by their bosses to get answers that the police did not have good, always good. Meanwhile, in new york city,
James is watching promises almost forgot about little jimmy these watcher there isn't coming up with a plan. Ok,
to ruin. Leanne's, boss, Fred Mckay, but he'd been planning this all along and the tylenol murders gave them the opening he needed. Now I remember when the electric job she took stamped metered envelopes right and because of the investigation into mckay's finances Lewis, had his bank account numbers, so Ruth lewis wrote to James Lewis, wrote a letter and put it into one of those envelopes and mailed it to Johnson and johnson of the gods of thailand. Oh god, he wrote a confession letter nope october six. Ninety two, the letter arrived johnson
that's a parent of macneil laboratories, gentlemen! Already really assuming yeah, I guess there were no lady sexist work environment jet of it.
As you can see, it is easy to play cyanide, both potassium and sodium, into capsules sitting
store shelves
The cyanide is inside the gelatin. It is easy to get buyers to swallow the bitter pill and other beauty is,
cyanide operates quickly. It takes so very little and there will be no more time to take counter measures. If you don't mind the publicity of these little capsules than do nothing so far, I have spent less than fifty dollars and it takes me less than ten minutes per bottle. If you want to stop the killing didn't wire, one million dollars to bank account number eighty, nine, forty, nine five, nine seven at the continental illinois bank chicago illinois attempt to involve the f b. I log was going with oranges. With this letter a couple of phone calls by meal undue anything you can,
Possibly do so, of course, that's the case, then yeah he's just you'd think he would learn a little more in the framing. What this is foolproof, but this is foolproof. How did you find me? You put your bank account number on there.
Did I hear a scenario? Is use your own envelope, the huge envelope adult as your bank account number besides, that.
Someone squeal, so so he knew so he's so he knew the envelope and the bank Williams mackay. Obviously yet, but I mean, but his assumption was that the ep
I would investigate it quickly, ruling out for the killings, but
during that investigation. They would uncover all of his white collar crimes, okay, which basically is just going bankrupt right, okay, so, okay, so within hours, something happened that he didn't plan on and that was the fbi. I had fingerprints from the letter. Oh boy law enforcement did indeed grill mckay, but it didn't add up they. Then
Asked the gave anyone held a grudge against him. Yeah, Mr Lewis, Robertson, wagner sure Jim and Nancy Richardson. He said, agents found some of gems old correspondence from a previous job and the right to run
was easily matched with the note I mean he ended he's. The kind of guy could be like that can live
the beautiful letters our mind you ve got me.
We defend that. I voted with I'm guilty of having addictive handwriting, so we went public with the letter on october. Sir James then told me in that evening what he had done.
she didn't another's your days. Good work,
So I got those nectarines you like. I did something: impulsive, ok with the ongoing
We are using our view that we need to talk about those bavaria is when
I sort of tried to frame a cave for that chicago thing where all those people died and no one's paying attention. I don't think I thought you did something crazy yeah, it's good! It's good play!
it's solid. You want to make sure you have one, that's not too from nectarine when he turned her. She just turned around and stared at the wall. Oh words, please honey boy. You know how to make me feel bad. A week later, a warrant was issued in the picture of james was published, kansas city ca,
I just looked at the photo and called chicago. They said there was actually a guy named James Lewis, who is suspected of murdering ray west.
took his legs and not one that can go together.
It was not a crime where I'm from it's not murder. Up until now, law enforcement thought James was just pulling off a hoax to get money. Now they thought he was the tylenol murder boy. She is really messed up, though there was another suspect, dockworker roger arnold, roger liked to get drunk and talk one night. He was talking about the tylenol murders and someone took note and snitch on him. He was arrested on an old warrant. There were coincidences. He worked at a warehouse with the
other of one of the victims. His wife was in a psychiatric ward of a hospital across from the store with a bottle of terminal. I've been bought and he was a closet chemist kay.
If yes urges home and found a bag of chemical powder, bakers and funnels, but the powder turned out to be potassium carbonate, not cyanide. Arnold yell,
Reporters quote I'm not saying what the chemicals were were used for about was nothing illegal gently, my
doesn't carbonate carbonated remember loud,
Treat me like aware of a fellow like potassium driving. I I've just a guy with beakers of potassium. He was charged with assault and weapons violations and then released on bond. He was very, very angry, then the law turn all their attention back to James loose. He wasn't working in new york, but things were about to get difficult for him by mid october, nicely two photographs of the louis's or on television screens and front pages nationwide on october, fourteenth one of the owners of the hotel they lived in saw a bearded james in the lobby. He felt he knew changed from somewhere and ass quote twin name
from someplace. You live, maybe another building, I'm on ninety fourth street eighty. Fourth: ninety nine seventeenth ST james said he was from Missouri. It wouldn't be until later, the owner would remember where he knew James from land didn't return to her temp job the next day. Once again, the couple made a run for it.
On October eighteenth, the worker from leanne's temp job called the new york city police department, cops in F b. I agents flooded manhattan for days searching block by block, but they could not find the louis's who are now staying in transient hotels. On October eighteenth, he checked into a roach infested shared bathroom hotel. The media was all over the James angle, talking to his friends and anyone who had ever met him and they all gave
differing opinions quote he can talk to you on any subject and convince you, no matter how much you knew he knew more about attack yeah. Just that's why it's weird that that's why I hate him the most yeah yeah. I know it all and
Another quoth he seemed to have a good, are he'll, be get a kick out of his life read about himself and ill
if five steps ahead of everybody he's that smart sound like that guy nope next other saw a bad guy. The man who gave Lewis his first job in Kansas city said quote: here's the most bizarre personality. I've ever met in my life and I've met thousands okay, I like it another quote: he'd glare, he'd, stare at you and not say anything interesting. One of them said after a minor disagreement. James refused to talk to her for three months, hopefully
but that time on it right then three months now! Ok, it's up! So are you I'm good? You're crazy
tell your acquaintance said quote: he has ice in his veins K. Sarkozy James is planned to get mackay is not going well terribly. He's confessed to killing people now be. I really didn't give a shit about red Magee James has made himself the target, so he sent a death threat to president ronald reagan of that
always the right direction, hoping delete authorities to frederick wait. He still threaten gaze like I wish you didn't. Take those envelopes really find you,
Nobody advises lock up the arm. Dear mister Reagan, I'm going to kill you see. Fraud of anvil
really check this envelope out. In
is your reagan. He demanded changes in federal tax policy or the tylenol killings would continue in the white house would be attacked with headaches, remote, controlled model airplanes that would jam secret service, radio transmissions and his drone on him.
So fucking complicated it. So I can get that there's gotta be a black
I once loved talia planes and you guys would talk to each other is accurate. When you say, like tiny airplanes, you throw this out just as tiny airplanes, but nothing happened.
So he strode erratic newspaper editors. He said they should
haven't you been it just in that using
example. Ups, trying to frame a k, a bunch of documents about the mackay he pickerell situation
now. Why is it that the real?
but all this is over five hundred dollars. That's how much the paycheck
Five hundred and eleven, he wrote a letter to the president say he was gonna, kill them fight for
if hundred and eleven dollars of which he got everything, except for fifty dollars
yeah. He got it all, it's just that he was admitted because he screwed them over at a check cashing place. So what is he mad about? What is he doing this guy fucked up my credit report
mean and now the
A correction that's going on like this is like
like a state that you just keep cleaning with the wrong product, god? Ok now I think we might just need to embrace a purple carpet at this point, honey
there was threatened. The president this time say give me all of your envelopes. Oh my god, you're such a mink,
I love you, but let's just wrap it up,
I have the right to the chicago tribune. All right, I'm going to write one to Nancy reagan and then I'll come to bed, so he writes the tribune quote as you've probably guessed
my wife and I have not committed that chicago area- telephone murders, dude. We do not.
Around killing people we never have and we never shall contrary to reports. We are not arm.
unless one means in the anatomical paraplegia sense, wacko lock up now by the way, if you
confess to removing a guy's legs. You don't get to make pair of jokes that you know. That is why he did it, though you know, that's why he did.
Some of my best friends appear pelagics. I can Raza, we shall
carry weapons, no matter how bizarre the fbi and police reports domestically weapons are for two,
similar types of mentality, you know, and criminals to the police. We are neither signed robert Richardson. I hate him to think this. It's like distant
it with the well. I mean obviously very amiable already, but that is just he's a view
it's a very annoying letter noise, a dick he's, making jokes
and he's giving a list. Those are two red flags. In november he sent the cat,
the city star, a seven page letter, titled, a moral dilemma quote
the grub as a southern missouri hillbilly, then life was relatively simple values of right and wrong. We're clear cut blackened why the law was to be obeyed. The sheriff was to be obeyed.
backed it and on and on these went on and on about its whole fucking. My story, ok, but he also
kansas city authorities to reopen the re, wet west murder case, ok, which they did
I wouldn't do that. What is he doing? Why would like is this a game show his fucking mind
He must know something that no one else knows there might like a martian must have come to him and then like can.
thus in the craziest ways possible. Kids
can you please send representatives to chicago with boxes of evidence and the f b, I found something one layton print off the rope and polly in the attic. It was indeed as the right thumb of one james, William Louis. I thought I was gonna, be that Wagner guy.
during the week of thanksgiving james, sent another letter explaining he had made the extortion attempt to shine a light on the real criminal fred mackay
I was just coming out with it look said
getting it. I have to hit genre that fucking mad frederick k is like please James. Stop I'll give you the fifty dollars. It is quote, it is
I hope that by setting the impression that murdered me, why are just saying this
stop talking about. Ok, I didn't get a tyrant. All I did take that guy's leg.
This is the real day, the real
is that he has made,
dial one not made. Personally, I forgot my credit. That's worse, you guys have an unhealthy ups
I shouldn't with one man me that you're just not going to let it go.
You have your wade very different from what I'm doing the mister MC. He very different.
It is my hope that, by sending the information to the press, those powers which have prevented an investigation will acquiesce so that the matter can be properly examined. I have attempted to act as an informant to act on the
by the law, but the fbi, and there
Data associations have used their precious resources too.
Terrorize, humiliate ridicule and speculate in public.
but the private lives of my family and me now. Is this what a person who attempt to be a good citizen should expect the department of justice pout? I mean
good lord he's trying to point out is a criminal out their jane
versus reality. With this letter he sent his real name.
Once and he put his right thumper
on the letter, mean why so he just he's fucking
so at the same time as being that he's like talking them at the same time, right.
but james and leanne still weren't running. They just moved a few blocks away in new york. James.
There were were on the streets every day, not taking protect precautions, not hiding the day before, which add enough. I believe that yet, if he so visible here, magazines and newspapers,
the day before thanksgiving Leon sign for a hundred and forty two, our money order from her father and a western union office. They were seen on video, but still the f b. I could not find Leon, got a job as a bookkeeper under the name carol, Scott, the f b I put out word everywhere James, a worthy james could get his hands on a constitution communist member right, so they know, is reading these newspapers because its clear is creating something
now the leg. Ok, it's gotta be right in a place where I guess he's newspapers, smart and then on December, thirteenth nights in asia and Europe
public library, librarian called and said she
just handed a paper to James Louis, the f b. I rushed down and arrested him. James pleaded not guilty as extortion arrangement, but they still couldn't connected to the tallow murders. They couldn't connect anyone. The task force was cut down by eighty percent in general.
tylenol Returnest shelves. They were now as we can.
Without cyanide is little miss wilson.
I'd free they ve come a little cartoon gather cyanide, Sammy cyanides has now nope. Now, ok,
So now tylenol was, as we know it. Today, tamper resistant, the drug company had lost so before this. Its literally just a box and an inside is
the the the bottle pop it open and there's. That's it right now
You got a seal, they ve got the so the cotton. This is this. The cotton as from this cotton was
actually used for prescriptions that had like maybe a temperature situation are couldn't be moved. Rather. Lots of cot was put
Therefore, a specific purpose and never with tylenol aspirin.
So now you he's there is so I got to you got to cause. You got the resistant time that you have to
it gets get. That's all that's all because of this, while not him.
at the top of the guy who ever that other person, the company Johnson Johnson, at most a hundred
in dollars, and new regulations were now institute,
by the: u s: food and drug administration. Before night in age, you re only moisture and temperature sensitive medications at protective seals. Now they audit land would not speak to investigators. She was charged with misappropriating these social security number. She used to become Nancy Richardson. She was offered a deal, but never spoke computer to develop them,
All their nancy method also guys have disappointed a boy she sang in the desert.
The tiger computer consultant John standish was leaving
a lincoln avenue bar on the morning of june eighteenth nineteen. Eighty three spanish. It looked like the bartender previously accused
And still angry roger Arnold thought had snatched on him. He's the bar he's: ok right,
the guy up the loose lipsky who thinks this is finished. I've got right. Arnold walked up to Standish yelled. U turn me in and shot him in the head. Killion you'd think object.
The bullet killing people. Now you know I'm not. Oh wait. No. Take that way.
No aren't arnold would be tried and convicted and sends to thirty years in prison. That's kind of light after a
six day trial, James Louis was found guilty of attempted extortion. On october twenty seven vaccinate three mackay
He was extorting himself. He was. It was thirty seven in prison, James offered to be ok. First of all, no one would eat his pastries in wait. Whoa scuse me now the other prisoners he worked in the kitchen
at the fifths, it's picture of cause. They were like he's going to make cyanide empanadas. I think that's what they would do yeah. They also gave him the nickname, the nickname, tylenol
Oh man that is eternal
I don't want your pastry. My name
James you'll make today. Ok to you, don't
Oh man, I didn't dare anything to do with it. I wrote it in an envelope of an old man. I'm not tylenol man. I just took a man's legs wants. You know it is taking to taiwan on man. Ok, so is in prison and they're. So he hasn't been. Sends yet, but he's in prison men convicted right, isn't that that time period, so it offers to be of assistance to these tylenol task. For you know what I think we should team up.
You know what I'm clearly mastermind of some kind. Look. You guys are deepen this deepen this. Let's put
our resources had come to the conclusion that it was probably mackay. He come on. You like that, and if they said yes to that
like where the look. We have three zones, you're looking for the guy yeah. Also, I think we should
I reopen them a key part of that guy's. Just such a dickhead. You know he owes me fifty dollars. He called the system.
U s attorney jeremy margolis, who had helped put him in jail, margolis and james,
met several times in margolis his office, discussing in theorizing on the murders for hours and hours
Is he allowing that be? Sir? James is actually maybe making good jane
came with quote probably hundreds of pages of manuscripts, diagrams and theories as to how these killings might have?
happened. Is he hearing him or is he like actually like james? The cops, despite the problems with the theory, have decided that he did it or they think that james did it a bunch of them? Okay, okay,.
and he did not fuck that yeah right with you just depraved variety ages. He just keep did did he did the worst roaming job plausible hood, this moron pull off the tyler homer. Now he's a fucking more. What he could do is pull off.
Getting himself in the eye when he had nothing to do so.
In one drawing james, went into great detail about how a bread board could be used to put poison into capsules by drilling holes in the board, then placing empty couplet halves into the hall
It was then filling them cyanide and scraping off the excess with the knife recap in the capitals and then put them back in the original containers. He said it could be done in the store parking lot so he's I dont know why he's just a he likes to talk and be heard, but this is actually a smart idea on how to do it, so he is making it look like he did it by
coming up with this ideas. Yeah that work that is nailing right, so F b, I agents and policemen were there during all the meetings taking notes, hoping Lewis would screw up, but he never did now that's what I did
what I say you know the other one.
Like lie that your eye in your head. I'm actually
jack alot of people here Mackay. He didn't do this
James, was also not happy about the judge who convicted him or his defence attorney Michael Monaco. His attorney then stepped down James file.
motion that the judge should be removed because he had a relationships with crap teamsters affair.
Issues with the same attorney general's office that refuse to investigate mackay and statements to the federal bar association
prisoners who acted as your own attorney psychopaths. Ok, the motion was,
shocking james ascends to
became a mccain now derrick Jesus and ten years in prison? Where he's always called terminal man in nigeria, seven he filed for a sentence. Reduction quote this, but he writes louis was convicted not because he committed any crime, but because the u s attorney daniel web in open court threatened to,
kill the jurors with poison and with a gun the defendant will never forget the fear in the jurors' eyes, Mr Webb committed the crime of extortion. In open court, an act that amounted to jury tampering, no one can blame the poor jurors when they themselves were the victims of such acts of terrorism. Wait
that's completely bullshit, it is the craziest thing that he's done so far. Ok, now he is starting to crack man. This isn't a great sign. Yeah
you can easily go through the court records and be like no there's. No, now don't see him. I never said anything about poison, there's nothing about a gun and hear nothing about him, pointing a gun at the right. Well, there you go, you will convict, you won't convict, we don't need to deliberate and if you don't
I will show you in poison your families. I rest my case for we went em. We wanted, did YAP yeah
guilty airway, go nowhere,
You can appeal is gap so shocking. These motion was denied october thirteenth nineteen. Eighty five james louis, was released from the federal penitentiary arena Oklahoma and went straight
actually and who was waiting for him in two thousand and nine the fbi
the illinois state police executed. A search warrant of James loses apartment in cambridge Massachusetts. Nothing was found in two.
The ten and his wife Liane gave dna
temples. At the request of investigators, no charges have been brought. It's not know why they conducted the searches as the warrants and affidavits were.
Pounded by the court. The public cannot examined the court filings with the tylenol case being re
committed. No one outside of the case can
examined the investigators records from eighty two ready
eggs are currently active. Investigations are exempt from
freedom of information act. There there's this ok, but but still again,
a james olsen in two thousand and ten. It means they do not believe their own long held story. That alone madman bought the tylenol person stores and then put cyanide and replaced it because he was in new york at the time. Right so
going against their own long held their absolute. Very that that's what happened.
In two thousand and eleven farmer, Johnson and johnson in play and whistleblower or tomatoes name, but he wrote a book called the tylenol mafia. In it he breaks down mistakes. Investigators made they treated tylenol coming off the shelves like a recall and seven investigation. All capsules were shipped to johnson and johnson steroid them. Ah.
Less than one percent of capsules in chicago were inspected slemons. We actually don't know how many cyanide capsules, rather all the civil rights and jobs is lacking,
they said they found one really really sorry
happened to be that some people got them. What do you think Johnson
I'm with it yeah for adjourn ivory with jobs, investigate
immediately target people like family members and try to build a case against them. Instead of following leads any power,
we'll dna evidence was contaminated in eighteen. Eighty, two because labourers used their bare hands of god
they also thought. Mary writers, castles had come from a bottle of regular strength, tylenol, but she had actually mixed existing tylenol in with her regular strain at that time,
women got extra strength tylenol when leaving the maternity ward, which means it was in the hospital chain
oh god, which means it was not tamper with a star shelf.
it means within the supply chain. One large number of pills, so the lot number that she had pills
was originally put on the list and then later remove from lists by authorities. Why
because they didn't want it known. That of god, god they never looked at repackaging facilities. So the way this works is acid. That's been asked him. Infant powder is made at a plant and that shift in drums and then its bottled or broken down into other sizeable quantities at what's known as a repackage.
so wait. So, ok, but so within this like airline, though
could just so easily this just so easily as a crime from inside. Like someone is making this?
men, offenders, a someone who is like work, the baggage saying or that yet right
right, so it's broken down at this other place earlier report stated that no evidence of the packaging had been vial
when I saw originally, they say in early early reports that the tylenol was not tampered with
and then that was just that doesn't fit the story that it wishes got right, so westchester the d, a Carl vagary.
he. He believed that that was what the evidence he was going on and he spoke out and said in any criminal
the asian you accept, the statements of a witness who has interested Johnson johnson in this case is certainly not a disinterested parting.
so he's off the range with all the other cops right and then the fbi enough
a clampdown saying quote: sophisticated scientific techniques have revealed that tampering indeed occurred and then very never spoke about it again. Ok,.
so that being said that this was an entirely new way of people die of people getting killed right. They didn't. They always look for motive
so this was at a whole new way of looking at re killings. Cypriot place shows leaps, please superintendent, I mean it's a terribly,
insane polish name, be r z, cecy tat, a man whose bread,
ascii says quote diseases as of two thousand, and two of my opinion is that
was an initial homicide with the bad guy knew the victim, and that was it and then it covered up the bad guy went
the terminated the other ones, this mode of makes the most sentiment, but it doesn't because now it is clearly me
We are first domestic terrorism thing: two thousand twelve rick cattlemen sergeant with the Arlington heights
is without divulging anymore than this. The investigation is, at this point open and active. They are actively pursuing leave, even if this date super
and it was a river
James louis changeless was an asshole and opportunists. He tries to extort some money for jobs and johnson any went to jail. He was in the
quite a long time when someone is in the penitentiary, you can go and talk to him with or without a lawyer present in all those years, all the work on James Louis, to put it together. Nothing while
so there's two things. I think. I think I think that no one was a new kind of crime that they weren't used to dealing with. I also think they they fucked up three big with evidence.
And then, but I also think that, when you're in the desperate desperate plays trying to find anything- and then some fuckin nut job comes in, of course, they swung to him, which happens. I think, which you know happens, a lot. I think they're alive.
Like you know, you're in the business of answering questions and when
You don't have answers, it's not only fresh is I mean people get frustrate,
Yet so you need to find something that fits
It's a whole nother like they didn't understand, like
that some random could fucking do it for some ridiculous rees yeah at a plant who still out there by the way, which is crazy, yeah yeah, I mean, I think,
You know, I like it arrives me like a mad sense of lake. You know, there's it's so.
Interesting that there are times where there's just a completely new thing that we have to
ec fathom it's almost layer. On top of that, you ve a collar, you'd, never knew existed, and yours
all of something: oh shit, it's everywhere
You know and its yeah, it's crazy. I remember. I regret I think I just remember hearing
That is, but I remember like what
I remember the fear and the and how big of a deal it was, but that fucking James lewis thing is just yeah.
I was just going to write a story about the tallow murders and then you are like Hell. I thank you often allow calculator fights,
well has always funded sit around and have a laugh and these interesting times. Why? What's wrong?
the international rating josiana combat yeah.
hey. I just want to throw a shout out to chelsea handler because she talked about leaving the country, but she said that the people
There are now her voice and am audacious ryan. I swear.
Thank you. Jesse by Henderson is emotional Yeah spindle eyes it
there's a crazy level of hollywood self importance that I think, is delightful and I think it's really important to know that you chelsea handler now in today's world, it's brave, you're, brave, spread. Thank you for not moving to canada. Spain, I think, was thank you for speaking for those who can't speak chelsea handler yeah. Thank you. Yeah thought you had. I feel Jesus Christ.
So I guess what is said in cars.
Transcript generated on 2022-08-12.