Today on The Editors, Rich, Charlie, and Michael discuss the long-term workability of America’s lockdown measures and rising tensions in the Senate over aid packages.
• Rich: Dan McLaughlin’s post “The Lockdown Debate Requires Transparent Disagreement.”
• Charlie: MBD’s piece “What Good is Chinese Soft Power?”
• MBD: Jim Geraghty’s coronavirus timeline.
• Rich: Watching old Yankees games.
• Charlie: Gravitrax.
• MBD: Dick’s Sporting Goods.
The Editors is hosted by Rich Lowry and produced by Sarah Schutte.
This is an unofficial transcript meant for reference. Accuracy is not guaranteed.
What policy is produced, a strong economy with widely shared prosperity. George shorts and John Taylor draw from decades at the forefront of national economic policy, making a show how market fundamentals generate consistently better outcomes than politically popular government interventions. Choose economic freedom reconstruct the crucial policy debates from the nineteen sixty three
Nineteen seventies, under the guidance of Federal Reserve Chair Arthur burns in the face of stubborn inflation present
Dixon introduced wage and price controls. Predictably, these policies became a significant drag on the economy and ultimately failed.
It wasn't told the Reagan administration that these controls were finally fully reversed, resulting in a vibrant economy
the work of legendary economists Milton Friedman whose free to choose spear inspired the Reagan Economic Revolution, along with lessons show
some Taylor, learn from the front lines and form this book and demonstrate that government interventions in economy don't work. Free markets do
how long can shut down last and how much money can Congress spent will discuss all this and more on this week's edition.
The errors and requiring I'm joint is always by the right. Honourable Charles See, Debbie Cook in the notorious be do Michael Brendan, dirty
m. Garrulity will return soon. You listening to an Astro, you pod gas. If you're listening is podcast on natural dot com cumbered like have, you would be easier for you and better for us. If you made as part of your feet at need the stream services out there from Spotify I tunes
what you hear here, please gives a glowing fire our view on Itunes. If you don't like what you hear here, please forget, I said: Annie
so every day America's locked down. How are you feeling
nervous like us
the last time I was on, I was
relatively early on bandwagon of
using schools where there wears a major outbreak.
be restaurants and bars in sit in those same locations and then, within a week the.
Countries started shutting down
in ways that I'm not sure have
utility in improving public health out
versus the economic cost in others there
definitely case against having large parades right now, but their prompt, I dont, know what the case would be for
people who build a patio in Ohio to not be doing that kind of work right now.
So I'm nervous about the extent of the shut down that it's already wearing people's patients out, including the president's
you already seems to be sick of it and work
by the the frankly terrifying forecasts from Goldman and other financial fur,
so I'm I'm nervous- is gonna Goldman Minus Goldman minus twenty four
someone I saw this morning, this minus twenty four on
appear this quarter.
Which is insane so are those
I mean I'm wondering, is: are those eggs are? Those is exaggerated as what we had two weeks ago that the predictions of you know a hundred eighty million infected in our people,
overdoing their book. However, at the same time I have to say so far I think my gun,
Andrew Cuomo has been correct and
that this is gonna, be a little bit of a long haul, especially for New York City, which is really
the biggest outbreaks in the world at this point, is the trials of talking to a friend on there
Inside administration last night and he
sort of saying: well, we're gonna have this tussle
and I guess it seven days now when the forty
day, guidance about no gatherings over ten people notionally expire
is between fancying kind doctors, who want to see squelch every last case, as as doctors should unite, want that advice from your doctor and
that that the folks to have a broader view ends are, are more focused on the the
the cost of the shutdowns themselves,
than Lobo. How do you get to the street from tromp around midnight and he's been retraining people saying somewhere things at the cure might be worse than
the disease- and I just term, I think, we're in
this now, so so it should see through in the short term. You know like not
tomorrow, not everyone should startling outside can go back to work than what was the point of this. This week,
the disruption, but it
kind of wonder if we're gonna just in never never and whether we should moved it to a more.
Rifle shot approach. France in school,
Michael, I know you're you're freaked out about
the schools early on but is
a way to what kids go back to school, who? Thank God, don't don't seem to get that from this. The old person in the country to avoid kids, I'm your problem with the administrators and teachers actually working in their schools, and that might be hard for grandparents here who earth child care providers, but that things like that seem like a more sensible disruptions and just shunning everything down attempts
the difficult position, the hippocratic oath first do no harm applies to medicine, for cheese involved in medicine from Snob club has to take the America aspect to this seriously has to coordinate,
medical response, some would say, and he is thus far prioritize the medical response. But he is the president of the United States has not surgeon general, and he has a number of competing variables to way.
His rhetoric is, as usual, imprecise. I think the tweet to which you referred was issued in all caps Trump special. I am not convinced that it is out of touch with public sentiment. I am certainly not convinced it will be out of touch with public sentiment next week. What to do is an open question. The doctors, as you say, rich
we'll say: let's get rid of every case, maybe they're right and others will say: let's keep the economy healthy so that we don't enter depression, maybe they're right. There is a point which, if we enter depression, we will be less able to fight. Much of this. I dont know where that point is. I don't think anyone knows where that pointers and then there's the cultural consideration we have discussed before how long
our Americans going to remain inside. I now know several people who are at risk of losing their jobs and have some who have lost their jobs. We lost podcasting when last
Friday that happened over the weekend yet, and those people are starting to say well what about me? What about my children? What about my mortgage
those people well, and they may be wrong. They may be right. Those people
I will start to ask to what extent we can impinge upon medical perfection and which is the greater evil. I imagine that by this time next week there will be far more people than their currently are. Who have been let go or risk of of being let go in Aceh.
This is one of the most difficult challenges for anyone in opposition of authority to navigate. You can't see it. You can't predicted you can't isolate it. You can't shoot it. The size of the american military at this juncture is largely irrelevant. You can't buy it off. This is a problem which you can't throw money, it's a balancing act as it has always been, and I suspect that balancing act will start to change now. What would it look like? I wonder if some places that have not been ravaged by corona virus, maybe in which current of ours is not present, were
lift any embargoes and curfews they have placed. What, for example, is the strong case for such a policy in? Why homing there may be one, it will be an apparent to the people of Wyoming. I wonder will start to see people behaving differently. According to their age group, my parents in England have Self Quarantine, they're, not saying that grandchildren. That's a decision, but my sister hasn't
and those between thirty and fifty I saw today are more and more likely appalling shows to be sceptical that this is the right response. It's difficult to make predictions, but the president's treat, albeit typical of his, was probably closer to the vicissitudes of public opinion. Then the doctors would like it to be so Michael would be tightened up,
from that from the very beginning- and at least we both great something to be taken seriously and not just with the season,
flew or a common cold, but sad, thick sinned against me
has been seen over the last five days or so just that smacks of fanaticism,
is Canada, shaming of people for like walking outside and parks
in the Sea and Amazon segments in showing video of people like walking together in San Francisco, saying you know what's wrong with these people working at the speed stopped, and we had this. This incident Ivan
she read peace, even though it is reposted. Now, where are again, who I know a little bit road piece about their arguing that
people have to freaked out that's gonna. Viruses isn't as dangerous as it seems in some of the analysis, is flawed posted on medium and was taken down. You only had people saying: look, you you're gonna cost lives by arguing this. So just if
If we literally can't go outside at all, I can have a debate about how dangerous the viruses were, where we still don't know entirely the the characteristics of the virus we know more than we did both stolen know everything that the better seems
me crazy and, as I say, smacks of extremist right light,
definitely agree we can't be
censoring people. Man
I know some big social media networks not just medium, but twitter.
Facebook and others you tube,
I've had policies that discourage
amateurs from from doing it. So, for instance, you tube demur,
videos that mention corona virus and sticks
me some ads
for the city, seas,
I on you to bend
and so on, ice and in your twitter is talked about. Using W h,
I'd lines for censoring posts.
On Twitter, I think this
is really responsible because these official
public health authorities there
conclusions have to be debated in public and challenged and in fact their conclusions have rapidly
he shifted and changed as we ve gone on
sometimes public health authorities,
are telling what they later revealed to be noble lie
say about the effectiveness of masks because they want to
preserve answers to them for healthcare workers
oh, I'm I'm I'm
dreamily wary of censorship at this time, and
on going outside Mean Cuomo husband, you know, try
to communicate what it looks like too to be so,
Lee distanced in a responsible way and so
taking a jog with some
who you know why
they with your spouse. Next to you is told
the fine organs
sing a basketball game
he kind of said you can't be socially distant and play basketball if you're gonna play basketball with any kind of skill, you're gonna be too close to each other, and that makes sense.
But we are not a culture. I mean
Japan and South Korea, Singapore. They went through a trauma:
Sixteen years ago, with Sars,
the first outbreak in there.
Cultures are dramatically affected by that leave. Internalized ideas
what social distancing looks like at what level what
are you know, I stepped up. Hygiene regime looks like and
doktor there on us a large enough societal level that their their fast,
her getting to grips with this then we will be. There are so probably are more. We
I know a lot of you will question these cultural assertions, but there's also prompt, probably much more deference to public health authority in those cultures and
would be in America.
Williamsons written really really well on that point here,
as well to you. I think I think Americans are still trying to get to grips with this and again
I am worried that work were almost give developing a split personality on the
quarantining measures and the and the disease? So people haven't?
overwhelmed hospitals yet, and so there are,
getting itchy to get back to work and get up
side and that's understandable, but then, if the
conventional wisdom by this Wednesday slips towards
start lifting these off and then by sea
today New York,
hospitals. Overflowing we're. Gonna go back and forth,
I mean it speaks to the need for
Communication from, I think
administration about what what life, after corn
this shut down looks like and what are the metrics to us getting there. What are the practices that will need to be in place, and should we have more gradated?
approach to this, where there are hot zones like New York is right now were California, and there is only where you know you can,
have a lower level of precaution and a lower level of lockdown. Is
port, untrue that it's important to further zones that the the
people can work. Kenneth,
to where there is a greater lockdown. I'm worried, though, about them. You know we're leaving
but a walk, but in ITALY
these videos of mayors going round their towns trying to shew people in the West, even individuals, because
got your so extorted a mare and others
you're in a town and in the north that was an epicenter and manage
to stamp it out. Who who just says? No one should literally no one should guard side, no one but the town of of three thousand people, and apparently they wages. They tested everyone so wicked testimony. I states that that would open a lot of other options at that we don't have insiders couple of things on the an expert opinion, just the turnaround on masks was almost instant and just sort of makes. You wonder there hawkish cause because the conventional wisdom for a couple weeks as their mass don't help, don't whatever you do, not wear, masks and thence
way. I think there's an up and the New York Times and then people started discussing it. Then suddenly, all the smart opinion was oh yeah should have one where masks Tina, so how we shouldn't really. This is exactly Gerda
yeah. This is this is one of the big problems. Here is not just that America,
is a nation in which power has been deliberately fractured. It's not just that the federal government is a government that
for aids under a charter of enumerated powers and therefore this states enjoy the rest. It's not just that,
towns and municipalities in churches in communities enjoy the vote
majority of the influence that is wielded here. It's there
no single aim and there
no single tactical strategy that has been agreed upon the even if we had.
Singapore style nation and Singapore in government. What would we do with it? And the fact that we are open not at the state level
but censoring on our social media outlets, the people who descent demonstrates that there is no great consensus. It's that, when one any sort Congress restricted to see that what is it that a dictator would do. Tom Friedman had China for a day unfortunate phrase in this context, but if Tom Friedman had that power, what would he do? I dont think we know the answer to that. I think a lot of people here, albeit well intentioned people, are making it up ass. They girl-
and an that's going to cause a problem in and of itself, because while you can take it down a medium post and you can t monetize people who dissent from the party line on Youtube and Twitter can adopt the guidelines that have been propagated by the World Health organization. You can't censor the public. You can't change what they actually think. You can't stop them from exercising their judgment. After a certain point, we do not have a police state, not at the local level, not at state level, not at the federal level. You cannot prevent people if they fall out of love with this initiative from
doing so? In the second World WAR, the especially in Britain, it was clear. The aim was to prevent the invasion of the british Isles and prevent Nazi Germany from destroying the british empire, and it's a secondary and related effort to kick Nazi Germany out of France out of Russia out of North Africa, and so for that
comprehensible, the only people who end up on the other side of the coin of those who don't think you should do as a tool, but in this instance we not really agreed upon what it is that we are trying to do, and I think that is as much of an issue as the lack of a potent centralized force so Michael
do you think about this, so I think we have all had arguments and our life with people who
take. This was seriously. I just think it. Seasonal flu
or even extreme version, is like a cold, and am I put
experience allow, thus driven by farewell opinions to Trump and the thought that this kind of being used against them. But I think sir, the sophisticated argument is even if this isn't like the seasonal flu is more more deblock seems to be the case. Here we had, we lose, who can lose time
thousands of people to the flu in any given season, so so wise that not a focus
a societal society, wide panic and locked down and obsessive media coverage and tracking and seen, and the numbers on the cavalcade kick Cairo's at any given moment
and this is what what what is so terrible and now I obviously every every lost life is tragedy. But what will be so terrible if we lost ten thousand
to this. We can lose more to seasonal flu at how do you think about that question?
Well, it depends on what else comes with that ten thousand number, whereas it is
concentrated to the point that
hundred to a thousand of them are the best doctors
in the city where
you lost that ten thousand near the difference between
from what we see and what were seen already, even in New York, where we live,
Positive cases of court of covered nineteen and near
two thousand of them are in hospitals for it. Choosing
ten percent, roughly
Sufferers are hospitalized, that's not true with flew, that's not what happens with flu,
have this cohort of people who get this?
case where they have to be on ventilators. You have medical supply problems and you have much more transmission to the doctors themselves
I mean when they are. I mean not to be too graphic
but when they are cutting you open to into beat, you is a very dangerous time for transmission for the doctors themselves
and it seems like there's a case where this off
oh there's a kind of viral load effect, which means doctors
Really in the trenches, are not just vulnerable to contracting the disease but vulnerable to dying to it in two degree, others armed.
So that's extremely serious and and there's a knock on effect where
what we can see when you have that kind of hospital overwhelm like you have an ITALY and we don't know of ten thousand people are going to die in ITALY. It
it's like they are on track for it, but
at the same time, you're having lots of
the people not get medical care because their system is so overwhelmed breadth? So it's not just the number of people who die from
what I think you're gonna get in a few
weeks or months as we we go into. A new phase of this crisis is not just asked
of how many people died from covered nineteen, but then how many people died from others
because of this strategy
nature of our healthcare does so
we follow up Michael, so so I think that's that's great answered. That makes a lot of sense
But let's just say: theoretically, we had all the venom,
leaders we need, which I think we are. We eventually will the question of timing will all the and ninety five mass that we need. We have all the capacity to hospitals, we need cause, we convert the job centres and wherever else to hospital beds, should we still be concerned about ten thousand access flew deaths. Basically, if it's not gonna overtopped,
are our medical system and create all these knock on effects like a cat? How it go to stop that? I mean it
I mean getting all that stuff together I mean putting FEMA hospitals in the job it centre and cancelling apart of
pro sport seasons and endless
of summer events is, is it is still pretty serious price to pay to get you even that far, but
I had someone who you know who I respect another habitual, contrary and
for me up shorten, say simply. You know twenty five percent unemployment,
is not something I'm willing to live with, even if the Javert Centre is a temporary hospital and
that's that's that is correct on its
on its own? It is, I think, the correct sentiment
We have to try to avoid both those outcomes. At the same time, that is what's devilishly difficult about
ass. My worry again, though, is that we're gonna do this back and forth thing driven by the new cycle, where we ve clamp down now,
we're getting tired of it, and the excesses of the clamp down are annoying
so we're gonna let up and then we're gonna have,
the continuing surgeon New York and then that's gonna drive people knots again, yes
Kevin. I met you know
I say campfires only right there were less less a rules based obedient people, then
other societies, but there are two aspects of our national character. That clear. Are there that are good
what one is panic and I mean a little late at all. This has been a panic reaction, but
How can it be driven by the store
of the hour, and I mean this is more in the story. The owl,
overstating it, but in all the stuff happens very quickly in reaction to
this disease and that we have impatience, which is which, to the other key aspect of our our national character, this there's gonna kick in here
Charlie limit. Let me get you on the question that I was asking Michael about two
do you think about the design.
Ability and what what the cost we should be opened it and we should be one
Pay a society to void access deaths that I think it has got to be a million. There is no question, but if it's it's, it's like a rough Lucy's on top of the typical
season. How far should we be going out of our way to avoid adopting if there's gonna be a flu season on top of a flu season? I think this reaction would be irrational. The question of a million would be a separate one, and, of course that is the problem here is that at the base line, this looks
same absolutely insane or about to see what three million unemployment claims, which is what twelve sixteen times more than last month, but it's the potential for spread. I will tell you this, though, that if this ends with ten thousand deaths, irrespective of whether that was because it was because it or because the actions we have taken
stopped it in its tracks. There is going to be a reckoning, fair or not reasonable, or not rational or not true or not. There is going to be
you hear that it in your saying, just anywhere with ten thousand years, saying to be clear that if the corn quote only ten thousand ass, though they'll be a a reckoning about that, the cost of the measures we took in this period. Yes and I'll, tell you why, where there was a piece in political yesterday in which thirty of the smartest people they know, guess what the long term socio political outcomes of carogne of ours? Will you be absolutely shocked in our rich that we're gonna become much more progressive
am, I can listen to experts more, maybe not. If there are ten thousand deaths, we're not gonna go in the other direction. We can listen to experts less last year
in the United States. Six hundred and fifty thousand people died of heart disease. Fifty thousand people killed themselves. Eighty five thousand died of diabetes. Fifty five
And died of Influenza pneumonia, depending on how you cut it. A hundred and forty five thousand died of strokes. Respiratory diseases took a hundred and sixty thousand people
a hundred seventy thousand people died in accidents. Now I want to be very clear here: I am not saying
The current baseline is all we should look at. I'm not discounting the possibility that this ramps up, I'm not discounting the argument in favour of social distancing, which is it this prevents more and more people getting it and more and more people die
This does have a high case fatality right. What we are doing may well look sensible, but if we end up with fewer people dying by a factor of five then die every year. Flu
If we have driven the economy to the precipice, there is going to be a reckoning. The people who led this are going to be hated
the media is going to be even more popular than it was at the outset, and Americans are going to become even
skeptical than they already were of being told what to do and
being informed that if they don't do that, they will die again, I'm not saying that they will be right. Perhaps this is a white UK situation. Perhaps we end up with ten thousand death because all the smartest people in the country combined with all the most powerful people in the country and stopped it
But that that there is a reckoning coming if these numbers stay low, as what we have done here has been absolutely incredible, and it's not just the economic damage that we have done we're about to enter into a presidential election year in which people will get heavily invested in the outcome that will get heavily invested in the White House. Race they'll get heavily invested in who controls the Senate New Controls, the house,
and they will do so because they want change whether that's change along trumps model or change along Joe Biden model of change, Long Bernie Sanders what it doesn't really matter. People want to see change and we're going to wake
in January February of next year with the realisation that most of the sweeping plans that we have seen outlined during the election year are just not on that
people, because we spend all the money. So we ve spent all the money because of actions we took to mitigate something that, if it turns out to have a low death rate, will look to many people.
To be vaporware. So Michael less was the point on this and I will move on so the problem
is- and I think in political terms, Charlie'S- probably right
but the problem is, we have no other baseline to work from their there's, no country that we can point to me.
It'll be the Dutch. That's just let this thing run free and see what the outcome of that is and clearly covered. Honour thousand people die in China. I guess
EAST. I mean you could have had a thousand people dying a day in ITALY or more you and eventually, there's occur.
To this thing one way or the other, we ve all seen near the bend the curve charts, but even when you're, not bending the curve, there's a curve it just it just goes way up really quickly.
Then comes down is, as you build an immunity to this, but so far there is no country. That's been willing to take the risk of a risk of not having locked out and not taking it extremely.
Firstly, I mean order were also I mean we don't. I dont know fiend even reach
We understand the chinese response and if we really have great numbers out of China, which is where the the
The bulk of the cases up to now were
having Charlie's is right that there's, there's gonna be
reckoning eat away, and I think this can be resentment either way
I will make a little mitigating case, though, which is one if a lot of
pretty well known, younger, healthy, looking people are dying of this people will say this wasn't just the flu and maybe they'll connect thee
mitigation efforts to it.
And two- I say it's not just the experts and the powerful people that are taking action right. I mean it: is
its calling your school boards two weeks ago and asking them to close the schools. It is people making,
everyday adjustments to their hygiene genome or and
routine, use. What we ve seen in Hong Kong right is that as the implemented, so
for distancing for kroner virus. There
flew deaths went down as well right so, dear so dear. There is that
element of it and that should be in the evidence. At the end, my I, if I can just respond to the second point, I think that's fair. I think this is, as you say, a panic, and I dont use that word productively that has been driven as much by people on the ground as by those issuing executive board is nevertheless one of the questions that will be asked is. Why did you focus on this to the extent that normal people
was so worried because we don't do the same thing for flew. Now again, I am not saying this is flew. I'm not saying it's unreasonable, I'm predicting a political outcome
The numbers stay low if we followed flew like we follow this and if we end up in a situation in which this kills five times fewer people. One of the questions that will be asked is why didn't we follow flew that closely? I dare say if we did follow flew this closely than we would have people call in their schools as well. I told my kids to go in because we're now forty thousand deaths
yeah and it's only March. So I'm not I'm not justify it, I'm just I'm just predicting.
But I see I'm coming over the horizon engendered by the way. I hope by the way we do take this flu.
More seriously, not that we lock down in the entire country, Michael. I were talking
this at the beginning of the crown of ours thing before really there at any
They were talking about this Michael before there is any cases
cases in the U S, but that the flows, a serious thing and all the hand was
and all the disinfecting and all that that that should be going on regardless every few.
Season in my mind shore, but but we do have a different calculation to go back to your question rich in one of the things that people who are irritated by the impatience that is being shown here will say is that if this has a one percent case fatalities
Of course it is worth it and ass. It totally defensible position and probably want I hold myself, but what they are saying.
When they say that is flues case fatality right is not, but fifty thousand
Yet, I believe so.
We are saying is that fifty thousand flew deaths are worth
little more than subsidized shots at sea vs.
Nay. I knew all public education programme, whereas this is worthy massive losses in
the stock market and the real economy, and that is absolutely fine, but somewhere between those two numbers. There is a tipping point, and I
give we don't see the sort of results, perverse sense that we ve been promised
You're gonna. Have them right. That's why? I think the noble lie aspect can be really dangerous right, which is about a week ago.
Ten days ago. A lot
European leaders were saying: oh sixty percent of our population is going to get this. You know we should expect. You know
scores of millions of people in Germany and the United States to contract this disease,
that. Is it that way
irresponsible for a lot of reasons. One
Of course, that is something that did not happen in China. It did not happen in South Korea
did not happen anywhere yet so there was no historical evidence of this happening.
They were extrapolating from the most stupid form of mathematical model, which is, let's not
can do count any actual human behaviour.
It's just raise a multiplication table and that's
not how human social networks work. I mean most of us right like we don't interact with
random sample of humanity.
Around us at an even rate. Throughout the day we interact with are specific social networks, which are you know,
we two hundred people are so for each of us as for
and probably only thirty or forty high contact.
In a given weak
and so tat.
Not how these diseases transmit, they don't transmit anathema
model they transmit on a social model
social model, is affected by the news of the disease and people withdrawing sir,
by saying that it's gonna, be
sixty million or a hundred and sixty million people. That was,
responsible, any use is setting up the very backlash that we're talking about. Yes, I think the the
answer the question, as I can best figure it and it's it's
is a serious moral and political
none of them would be one
in our you dont want the hospital get overrun, which is a serious risk of that and then to just that the general
ask that there's potential of a hundred thousand Americans dying from this in a way there isn't from a seasonal flu. But
This is that this is really a moving target. Odin wooden shock me Unifil, a week from now we have
kind of and Rick Tele type rallying cry against the locked down that that gets an enormous amount of sport has people cause. People are sick of it. So
Michael Exit question to you. First locked downs on the extent that
seeing now will last in your mind at this juncture,.
Another seven days, another two weeks, another tomb
it's another four months, another six months or longer. I
going for the created answer, which is officially,
they're gonna last at least a number another thirty days on officially
people are really gonna start breaking them in seven days.
York. I can imagine there'll be attempts to enforce it. For me
ninety days, because I think it's it's looking like,
New York is on that moron
italian path and anywhere else in the country say. I think I've
I think people in Ohio will start
moving around in seven days, no matter what their authorities are telling them check up. I think it's too weak
and less during those two weeks, this ramps up to a scale that is JANET
They terrifying and undeniable similar I'll go to gradation as well. I kind of things
Tromp will not renew the guidance against gatherings of more than ten people so that that means that will be expiring in seven days and I think we'll see
listening in parts of the country that our semi lockdown now that's just where this isn't a huge problem and in that time frame, but New York City, as is Michael says, if it were a country, it it deep past France. Now in cases
and I think we're we're looking at. I think about it. Another ninety days, assuming too
Things go well in New York City,
so anybody we ve had a debate going on
Capitol Hill over the third phase stimulus, so called where republicans of cooked up their bill in the sand
were recording early Monday afternoon,
As far as I know, they're still Parson deadlock. Senate Democrats brought it down yesterday because they don't like the corporate
provisions. What do you make of it
I think both parties
both parties are showing too
tendencies that I think I've been bad for
legislation as its pretty cancer, the Senate
The first is too many of them
too. Many is fishing. The republican side are treating this like. This is a normal recession measure and a lot of the
structures that Eve embraced for fiscal relief are reminiscent of trying to ramp up and stimulate,
a moribund economy,
dying one you know it
so, for instance, I don't owe their stolen
they are now, but for us
Thea the measures to ramp up
payments, depending on your tax liability from two years ago. So if you
paying taxes, you don't get the full amount, like that's the way
structural relief when you're trying to encourage work, but we're not trying to encourage work right now? We're trying to relieve people were telling not to worry
we're trying to relieve people who become unemployed because of a government decree that they can
work. So there
there's a little bit too much of thinking. I like that.
There's too much opportunism where you're seeing
were crowds, add in just absent
leave the SAR Green New deal, provisions or provisions
early voting, the things that are
fleetly unrelated to this current crisis. As a kind of wish list pilot
x, which is oh we're gonna pass a giant bill with
billions of dollars of spending and lots of aim
let's just throw an entire laundry list of other
priorities, some of which are
economically, harmful in themselves? So, for instance, trying to force certain
corporations that might get relief not to fire workers or
force them to you now
their emissions standards, or something like that and we need these are potentially job,
and recovery killing
measures that do not belong
in a bit like this and also
I think the speed has been poor. I understand their caught flat footed. This has been extremely. This has been the fastest
to news weeks. I think since September eleven
two thousand one
it's normal that they would be flat footed and that they be using and re purposes.
Legislative language that might be defunct,
but I think it's a poor showing overall and speed really desperately matter
I'm in the hospitality industry,
his hammered and what what happens is every,
day almost every hour, were it's not just the capital that business has to lay out to stay open, dated eight to pay
financing for their equipment and their their rent,
they are least or their mortgage every month, but it's also
the k of the relationships that make up the business so the longer you leave people and uncertainty. The long
they're gonna, make other plans or adapt themselves and reconstituting b
great economy. We had three weeks ago becomes much more difficult, the suit
they can get a predictable, comprehensive relief package out.
The more frozen in place. All the good parts of the economy that we had will be
the longer they delay and the longer than they they create them. The more
ambitions and call
applications that they attach to this aid, whether to business or individuals,
harder they're making the job of the american people of getting back to work. When we can check up. I was highly critical last week of the republican plan. Michael just touched on some of those criticism, so sharp relating it that instead
and criticise a behavior. The Democrats, hand, and most of all the behaviour of those who've have been charged with covering
Relying information to the public seems that among the self appointed Smart sat, there really is a belief that only Democrats have real genuine heartfelt objections to congressional legislation, while Republicans
are engaged in a legitimate shenanigans indulging mass, so called Atticus streak. I am struggling to imagine the coverage in the New York Times no watched her past CNN Ev Republicans had block that Bell ass.
Especially if they had done so from a minority position. In there you are Senate, we would have been told ass. We were throughout Barack Obama's presidency. That Republicans were
hostage takers and terrorists, nihilists and bomb throws them that if they wanted to direct public policy, they should win an election
About having silly, I am not defending any of other rhetoric, legislators are allowed to do what they want. Their allotted direct
legislation in any way they see fit. The house can do it at once, irrespective of who controls the Senate and the White House
the minority in the Senate? Has the same powers now ass? It always does, but the double standard is extremely annoying, seems Republicans block and obstruct. Whereas democrats warm the public about flaws,
if their successful ass, they were last night and I think I'm being told right this moment that they filibustered the bill once again, then they're not engaged in obstruction, but their position
the product of a partisan divide. I don't know either if you saw the three New York Times headlines from last night, but the trend,
Andrew Stockland, the first that the Democrats have blocked the bell. The second set that Democrats have blocked the bill because they cared so much about workers and the FED said that the Bell has failed to pass because, if pot is on the divisions, no names attached,
been comical to watch ass. I say I do object to the Democrats disliking this bill item, particularly like it, and I don't
objective them using their powers to shape it as they see fit. They were elected to, they have their own priorities and, oddly enough, some of those parties seem to be shared by President Chump, who last night at least, was sympathetic to the criticisms. But if this is the best they can do, then we are going to get a bell. The republican crime has been complexity, complexities, our enemy here. What needs to be done to smooth out the rough edges of this bill should be done after its next year during taxi
not right now for now is to get the Czechs and the loans and the liquidity out of the door, the democratic crime, and it is a worse one now than drafting a belt, and I don't like
Is to be inserting into this bill all sorts of unrelated nonsense. Elizabeth Warren has been arguing for this, and it looks as if that's what's happening. Guy Benson notes that the Democratic Bell includes collective bog
in powers for unions and new fuel emissions standards for airlines, the expansion of wind and solar tax credits changes to the way that states must run voting
oversight for minority owned banks come on. If the idea is to save America's economy from the damage that is being inflicted by carogne of our surely for one day, we can at least addressed the question before us. It's not as if this is a particularly ideological area. As someone said to me on twitter this morning that my being sanguine about this,
allowed in general says that I must be fine with socialism when push comes to shove. That's just such a sillies, silly thing to say: when how many times have I been on this forecast asked about a question said: no, I say no to government intervention. I say no other is Obamacare. The Patriot act to the Drug WAR gun control,
pretty much every welfare programme. But the thing is in this case is the government that is causing the hardship not because it proposes a knock is created, corona virus, but because it is instructing the shutting down of civil society, and it therefore has a responsibility to deal with the consequences, and that
this different. If my local pizza restaurant closes down in a downturn while I might be upset, but that's really no business of the government or any one else to spit in this case, if they told to be shot. If, if the people who go there are told to stay at home, I think this is a different kettle of fish, and so I am disappear,
painted by the behaviour of the Democrats here, and I am disappointed by the press, his inability to note that, for better or for worse, it is Democrats now that a holding this
up and yes, they're, holding up a bill that I especially fond of, but I was told a week ten days ago, including,
leading Democrats that time was of the essence of this Michael says every hour, every day, matters and now we're filibustering bills, because the imperfect that it seems to be little hope that this would be a moment in which we would have put. All of that aside. We shouldn't usually put
the side. But in this case we should so anybody acts a question to you. The third phase of the stimulus bill they remembered
The legislation that saved us from the economic effect of locked downs or as a temporary measure, quickly overwhelmed by circumstances
a temporary measure overwhelmed take up. Why assuming it passes, then, is useful. I think it will do a great deal to help. I am, of course, assuming that we're not still here in September if we are there's not much
government will be able to do because we have spent the last ten years stimulating the economy at every juncture, such that the number of tools in the two back are limited.
So the echo question at our last observes that last week was whether it be a trillion closer to a trillion closer. The two were obviously up there,
to now in surprise me for a well over two by the time it passes which I take as given, but it will still be a temporary measure overwhelmed,
circumstances. Sir, before we move on, let's hear some more from our sponsor this week with
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Everyone. So, let's hit a few more things before we go and be de even thinking about Dick sporting goods.
Yeah dicks, put out Nelson last week that a temporary close store
but they're gonna keep paying most their employees, and I felt like that was
a great and generous thing that they could do, and I was
anxious about what life in lockdown might look like. So, yes,
The last day, you can drive a highways here in New York unless your central personnel, which I am not I went down addicts and picked up a curbside delivery,
only a heavy bag. For my garage,
and what was funny was even before I arrived, I got an email from Dick saying, thank you for picking it up and asked about
This is why I got his inner before even got here. He said well, you're, the third guy. Today,
to pick up a heavy bag, a lot of people are looking for something to punch right now. I thought that was pretty good and accurate and gave me a good laugh this week carried and quite taken with grabbed the tracks I have. We got a grab attracts set for my son's birthday last week and, to be honest with you, I have
with more than he has. I am absolutely obsess. This is a marble run game, but it's more than that
I run systems fully modular, get expansion, packs already gotten expansion pack,
you, design, your own model runs and, and let them go so essentially have various levels, various pieces of track and various it'll gadgets switches and magnates and drops
and then you put this together, so you could make a marble runway, you can the models or mobile runway the marble ends up in a different position. Every time you run
I'm aware, as I am speaking, that this is probably related to my love of rollercoaster. That might be why I find this so fascinated, but I have caught myself saying to my little boy
then another, but that they are doing it wrong doing it wrong with which it
especially proud of, but I have to say, if you had experience the magic is scrap attracts you might find yourself during that too.
So, as I mentioned before, in the off season, which will now be extended baseball offices
they get myself through by watching old, Yankee Radio broadcasts and tv?
broadcast. I work myself through most of the stuff I wanted to watch in the late seventy
Then I slipped to their early,
mid nineties, which is a favorite period of mine, and then it's just it so on us. A good source of these things have been using you tube and you very quickly exhaust.
All the the alternatives.
So that this weekend I went back to the fifties,
and ran the boy selected game, seven of a Yankee, broken Dodgers,
world serious figuring that the Yankees pretty much always beat the broken?
others, so this would be a happy event and of course, I only listen to the games are pretty confident that the accuser are going away.
And family member said five thousand five hundred and fifty five. I think that might have been the one Brooklyn year and sure enough. He wasn't totally confident. So I listened to the whole thing hopeful that he was wrong and this to nothing Brooklyn Dodgers
I would be erased by an amazing, a yankee come back, but never
happened to the Yankees, beat the Dodgers in four thousand one hundred and forty seven, four thousand nine hundred and fifty two fifty three and fifty six, but not, and one thousand nine hundred and fifty
So, congratulations to the Brooklyn Dodgers settle at that time, for our editors picks everyday. What's your pic
Jim Geraghty, as we record right at the top of the site as his morning. Job, which is the compound.
Of time line of China's covert nineteen lies and
This is just
in Geraghty is one of the true gems in journalism,
today is not just a national view, but in the whole journalistic world
The four his ability to just do the rest
search for you and put it in a comprehensive, readable,
way. Jim gives you the a very
of the initial outbreak last December and the way
the chinese provincial and national authorities, tried to squelch
information and how they put the whole world five weeks behind the curve
it is a vicious
piece of service journalism, and I benefited immensely from it and readers well to check up on your back.
Assistance to those podcast when Michael and I do not see eye to eye on everything and of even become heated across these very airwaves bought. Corona virus has brought us together because it has.
Loud us to indulge together in a mutual passion which is commie. Bashing Michael has an excellent piece and star of you called what good is chinese soft power cutting to the heart of it? Some people say that China is expressing itself on the
what stage and demonstrating its capacity for soft power and Michael says, yeah, maybe, but that soft power is evil.
This is an authoritarian regime. It's a dishonest regime. It is a regime built upon report
and propaganda and the worst idea and human
three communism to hell with them. So my check is corner to
I Don Dan Mclaughlin, the lockdown debate- requires transparent disagreement, the occasion for which was the
Erin Gyn median post being taken down, as we discussed earlier, this post of dance its and formed its judicious. It's why
Yes, it's usually impressive and welcome.
We leave delighted that, actually, today, this very day is Damn Mclaughlin, first official day at National Review,
as a full time writer? So that's it for us even listening to a national view. Podcast will probably back with another new episode later in the week anyway,
Broadcast retransmission or account is game without express written permission of national view. Magazine is strictly pro this podcast been produced by
Incomparable sir, should he who makes us out better than we deserve? Thank you, Charlie. Thank you, Michael thanks to
the and bikes, especially to all of you for listening.
We are the editors stay safe. Everyone.
Transcript generated on 2020-05-18.