Today on The Editors, Rich, Jim, and Michael discuss the impending impeachment, concerns about violence leading up to Election Day, and recent Big Tech censorship.
• Rich: Rick Hess’s piece “Betsy DeVos and the Poisonous Politics of Malice She Endured”
• Jim: Jack Butler’s “Madison Cawthorn Is a Disappointment”
• MBD: KDW’s “The End of the GOP”
• Rich: Baseball cards
• Jim: Travelers
• MBD: Steven Isserlis
Boll and Branch
The Editors is hosted by Rich Lowry and produced by Sarah Colleen Schutte.
This is an unofficial transcript meant for reference. Accuracy is not guaranteed.
Two point: oh and the social media crack down will discuss all this more on the special pre impeachment edition
The editors, I'm sorry and I'm joined is always by the sage of authenticity. Woods, Jim Geraghty end the notorious boom boom, Michael,
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so every day the impeachment train once again is loaning up and is ready to leave the city,
asian were according on Tuesday afternoon. Nap diplomacy has scheduled a vote tomorrow
RO in the house? I believe it already has two hundred eighteen co sponsors, so that this thing is pretty much at dawn,
deal coming out of the house. Would you make it well in
Historic right. I mean this is that's the first thing to say about it. We will have the first.
President who's been impeached twice twice
within a calendar year. I think right or is it two years? I think so a clock closer. So I think that all of us predicted he get impeach at least twice, but that was we all thought that would be in the context of winning a second term, and I think some I made him go higher than to Thomas
but I think someone was was maybe three times so yeah its historic. It
Seems to me, though, that the
for it is losing momentum in the public and in among Republicans,.
In the Senate, invite me even already feel like it's dead as far as removal.
So yeah I mean it's gonna look, I think
little bit more like a partisan,
exercise in the end, maybe with a few more robust.
Since joining in each chamber, but you know it's it's not going to
flecked, where I think was a mood last week that felt a lot more urgent.
You know it already. I think, even.
In a way. The thought occurred to me that Twitter
may have saved trump from removal from office, because if Trump had been able to tweet during
The late night Senate, accounting of electoral college votes, I mean who knows where this would have gone and how offended other republican senators would be at this point so thick ass talking, there are public inside the other day. He said that if there had been a vote at three a m after that day's advance on Wednesday, Yea would have gotten twenty five republican senators to the tick conduct, but that emotion, past and Jim that this this suggest complication of impeachment in and the circumstance trumped in a committed, a no kidding unimpeachable offence. Ten days before he's gonna leave office or two weeks before his enemy.
The office is just impossible to impeach and convict in that timeframe. Just given the way Congress works in a mythic plus, he wasn't going to bring the house back early, so they waited five days to have. The votes are going to have tomorrow
you need you, natives consent to get the Senate back from recess. That's not gonna happen, so the Senate can take this
up only beginning January nineteenth, and then impeachment is not built for speed in our Europe.
Plus he's throwing out the window, all the regular procedure
here we should have some fact finding an I understand,
I meant. Well, we all know what happened we heard the present species saw on live tv in video afterwards, what the result was, but I think partly impede
case against. Him should be how we handle it afterwards and we seem pretty compelling reporting about
that, but you'd want to actually now that down. You'd want to have hearings. You'd want to have a report.
You know what she would you usually have in these circumstances. There are thus going out the window based on them
I should now that we cannot tolerate
him another day in office, but that's not gonna happen. He's not gonna be removed prior to leaving office a naturally
next week. So then you get in this bizarre situation of a post presidency, impeachment or Senate trial which damage Laughlin
Compellingly argues on our website. It is appropriate and can happen. It is, though, just gonna strike people, as is very odd rich. It is hard to overstate the weirdness of bee.
Hu, I am it I'll conservative right of centre guy if I'd like to think that have always been
I think the world changed, I have not one
sing too believes are or basely concluding, that a republican president should be impeached and he should be removed from office and rich
find myself in the weird position of being more having a greater sense of urgency about this. The Nancy Pelosi
I think your assessment is completely correct that if they had the boat,
in the early now or hours of Thursday or on Friday. Then you could vary
Well have had a sufficient number of republican votes for removal. It probably would have been close. I dont understand how this can be serious enough, that the president should be removed from
listen. You can't just leave him there. This is, you know urgent. Not we gotta do this border,
work on weekends now going to take five days off. You know it's! It's not that it's just not that urgent. At this point, the in the effort to remove Trump from office has all
The momentum and speed I've come to associate with an atom gates run offence. This
don't understand and then, of course we are putting a day to day now at the atom gaze thing. I can't I cannot respond
day today on the house say over you're about to convict after he's he's well, after is out of order.
The house today is voting on the twenty fifth amendment. It doesnt, really we parity
according to comments for eighty four reports. It sounds like MIKE pants is not looking at that. I think the President
starting to be acts strangely enough, and an oddly enough that maybe this is legitimate discussion
apparently, he was insisting to cover Mccarthy that this was all anti far and that no Trump Rideau supporters were
possible for what happened on Wednesday.
He does seem to be in denial. That's our work more ancient closer to it, but events barely is no indication is gonna. Do it and if pence
tat a near run in with a crowd. Chanting. Hang pants.
And we want positive- if pence isn't there in these circumstances, I think it.
I have to say my pants is not invoke the twenty fifth
So I don't understand what the House of Representatives to spend the whole day debating the twenty fifth
amendment when they really don't have the authority to get the ball rolling on us, so the vote.
Gotta be tomorrow. They're gonna have turned eighteen votes great now. The question is:
When does it go to the Senate and according to Jim Kleiber, they they may wait awhile, because Joe Biden
once these nominees confirm Joe but not bided, wants, is legislative agenda to get through. It may wait until after binds hundred days
what are you gonna momentum now? How do you think I'm gonna feel about it in April or may just like this? With its really
really gonna. Do this you're gonna get to its six months. From now on, we are for five months it. It doesn't make any sense any
logic, but I'm just throwing that I agree with any Mccarthy's assessment of the article of impeachment. They're gonna get
bogged down in a lot of arguments, about the precise definition of incitement and a precise definition of insurrection. Look if we can't do this fast
Let's do this properly and Europe. I think these reports we ve seen in places like the washed and Posten CNN, and things like
they're all really unnerving. They really paint a picture of a president who is content to sit and watch on television as an angry mob overtook the caught the Congress that, U S Kapital and
then the legislative branch of the United States government from doing its work, and he was just watch yet according to bend
asked ass. He heard from White Ass official saying that the EU is in a good mood about it. He couldn't
stay away. Everybody else wasn't appreciating it like all. That's completely worthy of impeachment that and if its failure to do his duty broke the oven. The constant
russian president, supposed to see that the laws are faithful executed
angry mob, has forced Congress into hiding Congress.
That little laws are not being faithfully executed and that will be sufficient
I think that you, by the way, I think, you'd better, get more republicans agreeing to that. Rather than
argument Trump incited insurrection
so I don't know what they're doing with the House Democrats I got. They say that you'd think they'd want it. You know have trump taken out before before the 20th of June.
You think they want to say that recognise he'd be bad enough for the country to get us to strengthen their case and make the best odds of reaching sixty seven votes.
They need something Republicans, that's not unthinkable some easy, but suddenly
I don't understand what what the only conclude as it pull
he is bringing the exact steam strategic genius to this that she abroad
has brought to every other political fight she's had in recent years as a remedy,
on this wording so inciting an insurrection, its ethics is ok for very loose talk, but I wouldn't put it in article n of impeachment cause. It is Andy points out. Just invites a legal mystic arguments about the meaning of those words, and yet you dont need to use those words and then also, I think, another problem with the article
as I think it goes too far and saying that Trump encouraged and should have foreseen lawlessness which I think you'd have you think that's true. It's a debatable or contestable claim, and it's just not necessary
to reach it. I don't know I just wouldn't right an article that says he whipped up and encourage the crowd to go pressure, as vice president and Congress to abuse their office and then was missing in action and exhibited depraved indifference. When the mob ran out of control you, you can just write it very precisely. In,
be justice, damning injustice, serviceable yeah. I mean I, I absolutely agree with you that a win win
any. What we ve learned, I think in our lifetimes of impeachment metals, is that the more you try to.
Frame them as like statutory crimes.
Rather than political crimes. The more opposition you reach right in
in fact, like what you said is it you should almost obscure
the statutory part like it should just be it for his indifference. You know that's a political crime, his endeavour,
to the safety of Congress in its and his vice president. That's unimpeachable offence, it's a political crime.
So yeah. I I would do that too. I mean, I think, however- and this is kind of maybe been a theme for Nancy Policing, the last
here I think she's probably is calculated it's more advantageous for this to ultimately fail because it just
In a sense like there's a sense in which Republicans could have been if you'd moved quickly enough and
made it surgical. Enough Republican
might have been moved to exercise Trump, who
has proved himself over the last year, probably to be
we're reliability than an asset to the Republican Party
instead just leaving the Republican Party in
of civil war and uncertainty about what Trump can do.
In the future,
a hobbles the Republican Party from figuring out. What's next right, I mean it
so, I do wonder if, if they want to fail at Feelin away,
can be blamed on Republicans, and I think that's what's going to happen.
As a gym one, my words here, and there is no doubt that this is an impossible, since there is no doubt about it. But
I worry that some of the follow on political effect, especially if the trial is delayed- you know two months or whatever it is that's gonna make it seem more just
political maneuver, then you're, going to invite all trumps defend,
in a really Giuliani, maybe trump himself enough. If he has, has an appetite for that sense of theatre onto that, the centre for putting them at centre stage of american politics and an effort that one of the justifications for it is boring,
tromp for office from office, which will clearly motivate his supporters might even send some fat sitting Republicans back into his arms with no chance of success. He he's not gonna, be disqualified from running firm office again, because there's there's not going to,
about two convex, so I understand the impulse to impeach. My worry is more prudential. Impractical
because it calls for me at the end of it by the end of the game,
is going to deny tromp ever having power again is taking the Republican Party back for him from him cynisca the prism through which I view
all this that doesn't help tackle on those are all really legitimate concerns and is one factor you didn't quite mention in there, but I think it's also an undertow. A current to all this and nuts
president Elect Joe Biden, who has run on we're. Gonna unite the country in, and you know it's gonna be an era of good feelings and put all this partisanship behind us, and so far Joe Biden has not indicated one where the other, how he feels about the impeachment of trump. He has said he's talk to folks and Capitol Hill to see if they can walk and she got the same. They confirm his not his nominees. Can they get the legislation through while they're doing impeachment, and at least in the past, when the Senate has been holding, you know impeachment trial. All other business has been put side. Annual impeachment trials go on for a while.
Volume minimum, you think to three weeks more likely for five weeks. Baby six, you know, if I just said, are you just described their Ricketts very easy to picture Donald Trump, testifying on his own behalf and turning the impeachment trial even to even more of a circus than it usually is because I think he'd love to go to the Senate Chamber and tell all the senators what he really thinks of them in and all that stuff.
Yeah I'll, keep in mind. Also the by you know, February March April, May.
We'll be dealing with other problems in this country. Events are not gonna, be on hold
so the others, a good chance that the Bite administration is go. One have other stuff to do rather than spend a significant amount of time, re litigating what Donald Trump had done in the opening days of January? Twenty twenty one now
I still think this would be worthwhile. I think you know if it take lead the investigation of the investigatory part. We talked about the reports of other Washington, post and other publications that paint a really damning portrait of the president sitting and watching tv as this crisis was unfolding, but I really,
To get something from beyond from just sources say, or unnamed Whitehouse officials I'd really like to see people under oath and giving very specific minute by minute establishing a clear time line of what the president did. We
still, don't quite know why it took two hours from Maryland. National Guard to get authorized to going to Washington Dc Larry opens.
As ever the Governor Maryland, still does not. Maybe its ordinary bureaucratic snafu that happens in government is not a lot surprising, but was there anyway, the Pentagon dragging their feet?
I do notice at the statement. At the end of the night, thank Vice President Hansen, just about everybody in capital,
except the President of the United States for the decision to deploy the National guard. So what happened
I think if you lay all that out the argument the Trump deserves, impeachment becomes, crystallized becomes a vivid, it becomes
may be too much for even the most partisan Republican to ignore, but this money just me
looks like we're going to get a I'm going to say, half hearted MP effort in impeachment, and that's not really the part of the anatomy, I'm thinking of rich.
It I'll have something ah and adjust not what the city
relation requires no one, that's worse than not trying impeachment all or whether censure would be better. I don't know yet so think about that through, but ideally forget it do impeachment. Do impeachment right.
Or do addressed, but at this point we're not gonna, write or fast, it seems evident exit question. You double barrelled ex question. There will be a Senate trial on these impeachment charges, yes or no.
And if there is assuming there is such Senate trial. How many Republicans will vote taken that I dont think there
will be a Senate trial, and if
well one. I think you would get five or six Republicans to convict, so you don't think they'll be attractive place it in your pocket pocket the article
not send them. Member from mean can't Mcconnell, just not have a trial before the next Senate is sat down and he's no longer in charge me
I don't think so. I am not sure whether obliging is from a colonel obliged to try them. I thought there was Jim. Do you know? I thought the Senate was obliged to take it up.
The came over this probably better question. As for antibiotics, but up
You know within a couple of days or become central earlier trucks. Humor lets them
exactly it, and my feeling is that to me, the big question is: does
I didn't want this during his presidency. I just think he's so
it'd two and has so much to gain from a return to normal sea and in a trial of the President in the Senate. While he's in the White House is just not going to work for him. That way. So that's why I, why am doubtful of the Senate trial at all.
Again sir trial. If so, how many Republicans? I think it will be a set of trial? I dont think it'll be until February March April, or something like that it will be a flop but yeah five or six republicans. What? Yes, I think, they'll, be it a trial to four plus it just a pocket them not.
Moreover, I would be so self humiliating, so I think we will get either some sort of abbreviated trial right at the outset,
in a way that will make this something of a travesty or some one morning
the trial of a couple months have now, which was its own form a travesty. I say
If it was voted on now there be maybe six Republicans, I know as assume some some drop off overtime or in reaction to an abbreviate process, I'm in a safe for so that lets pause and hear from our first sponsor this week, ball in branch. If you dream of cultural sheets at a price that won't keep you up all night, look no further than ball and branch bomb racked makes a softness. Organic
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said the questions round, the National Guard response. We ve seen more report
about all this was seen more photos.
Or video. Less first
Gotta go to some of the room
negotiations are not now really defenses of of what happened, but some of the. What about IST arguments
Around this that the hypocrisy argument, I think it has a lot of merit. You had had people
during the May him the summer saying
riots were largely peaceful, if not, everyone was participating in the riots saying that the riots were justified because there was a righteous cause of behalf.
Item or at least that the people engaged in them a really upset, so some Trump supporters,
Well, why don't? We argue the same thing here when we apply the same standard, but
problem Jim. Ultimately, these kind of partially arguments you need a plant, your feet and say.
Which is right,
It is wrong, otherwise, is obviously just ass. A moral dodge and others is always right to riot if you're fired up and upset about something
never right and of course the latter is the case.
If, even though I I hated with every fibre of my being what happened in the summer- and I personally denounce it and our denounced it in the harshest possible terms, there is something different about sacking the seed, a government and disrupting a constitutional process to elect a new president who wanted
free and fair election ass. What happened here, yeah so rich? If I understand you correctly, the people who were beating cops with blue lives matter flags are acute,
the other side of hypocrisy to have that right now, look you know prism.
Everybody the world whose whose knee jerk reaction to any criticism
what happened on Wednesday
well, where were you when this was happening over the summer? Go back and check? Now it myself,
you rich and almost everybody else at National review, gave a full throat
denunciation of the riots,
and the looting and the arson there was associated in the aftermath of George Floyd protests that turned into rights. I am very curious about how this is going to be remembered. I do think this is something of a turning point. I think the question is: does what happened on January Sixth, turn into Oklahoma City
or does it turn into Columbine unexplained? I mean, but each one of those Oklahoma City, there is actually a kind of this burgeoning rumbling frustration in the
early to mid nineties. Building up to Oklahoma City
and I remember, reading the coverage of the militias and there a bunch of people after it happen said if Timothy Mcveigh
had blown up an irish office in the middle of the night and not killed anyone, but then a lot of property damage and stopped some federal office building from functioning.
He would not be seen as a villain in many eyes. He would be seen as a heroic figure, something akin to the,
Boston Tea Party, the fact that he blew up a federal building that had a day care
and killed, I believe a dozen children
turn them into a monster. Nobody's gonna lift a finger to defend this guy and undermined.
The cause of the militias for at least a decade they became.
There is no one in their right. Mind want to be associated with whatever
rights, the right wing militia groups had with the government the fat,
It one of their members, felt comfortable blowing up a building full of children
said something about their morality. Setting out how they see the world.
And nobody there right mind wanted to go anywhere near these guys. Hopefully the
site and the video and the pictures we saw of crops have been cut.
Against walls and bleed blood coming out of the mouths of the map of the crowd
An angry more surrounding cops that
should tell us about. What's this crowd is
and this may undermine this and not make people may say, don't touch this with a ten foot pole. As of this conversation, there's report, there's gonna be a quote. Armed protest
On the lips on them all this coming Saturday
a lot of reports of a lot of potential violence. It could happen on inauguration day January twenty, hopefully,
People listen to this in a couple of weeks. They hear me talking about that. They got Jim was making much much ado about nothing.
Remember. Who is warning, you back run a virus back in January. Maybe it often happens. Maybe people don't touch this attend football.
Or maybe this is Colombia. Maybe this is the sort of thing where people who are angry and upset and losing touch with reality. Look at that say all this
what I do and I'm really angry. I attacked people try to smash stuff member. We had the reports of the.
On detonated, improvise explosive devices that their republican national headquarters and democratic national headquarters probably find a truthful molotov cocktails.
Whence degenerate, six was a really bad day at America, but it could have been much much worse.
We ve seen we have no shortage of cuban on types and
the proud boys and the big lose, and God knows what else out there. No short your people
are full of anger and ready to take it out of the world. So the question
disease it out as January six represent.
The end of this movement, the point where became so toxic, that even people who might have agreed in some ways do
go anywhere near it
like Colombia, where this new horrible thing in american life has been introduced and we're gonna see copy
That's emulating it for a long time, Britain, Jerry Thoughts for the middle, the weak solemnity, there's there's a lot of folks last week on the woman who was shot capital, Ashley, Babbit, initially people worse, asking how it could happen that we saw video, I think, maybe surface first by by the washing posted that showed us exactly why and how it happened. That was completely horrifying. You had this. This crowd surging towards speakers lobby, these two or three,
overwhelmed and undermanned cops standing in front of the speakers lobby. With these riders punching the windows kind of around their heads and shoulders reaching pass them to try to break the window, then you have
someone pleading with them to get out of the way less they get hurt. This was a videographer his shot. This video who is left winger, bizarrely.
That the cops step out of the way for whatever reason, because they're scared or they they'd know reinforce, aren't reinforcements are coming and there the course any time a mob sees account cops, leave that
Isn't accelerant so they really start going after these windows and and then they wanted, the the guy.
She's got on the other side of officer with it.
Yells a gun and but they don't stop and someone's trying to push actually Babbitt through the broken window. And that's when the author fires in and she struck in the neck and and cheat she is someone who believed she fed and marinated of fat FED on these conspiracy theories marinated on this conspiracy theories, and was why the people whose who is there- because
the Mai, to and betrayed and believed our democracy had been stolen from yeah
I mean we have a real problem where.
Not only is there this kind
alternate reality that people can indeed-
get on the internet of Q conspiracies, but where politicians, including the president, are willing to indulge it and
Like Jim said earlier, I could have been so much worse than it was
We're almost lucky and it didn't it wasn't worse.
Trump is lucky in a way
in a weird way. I mean I'm sorry
There's no one is turned around and pointed at him and said you helped get one of your supporters killed. I mean in this in this riot and
I dont know. If we're we're going
see a lot more.
Of this it. It does take something too
symbol that many people in a public space and
Maybe they'll be more fear next time about the blow back. I think a lot of people realize now that this did not advance their cause, but retarded it, and in fact you know, people were pointing out to all the message boards in the days afterward after Trump gave his sort of semi concession statement, and there are many people posting who had been there
at the capital saying trumped, just betrayed us and is calling for a rest now when we are doing what we wanted him to do,.
I don't know but where we are seeing something building up in the system right and it goes back to the pizza gate. Shooting goes back to the attempt earlier last year to kidnap the governor of Michigan.
It's in some other rights we saw over the summer, and now this I don't know if it's a, I think, there's something like a deeper disappeared.
Sean happening from self government and even reality itself, and I dont see
The horizon has an idea of how to address it. Yes, so Jim there are some loose talk last Wednesday that people
Said, oh we're lead in. We had no idea that we're not supposed to go into the capital, which is kind of bizarre, given that we all know the security environment we live.
But LO and behold there was a video her to that that showed overwhelmed cops. I guess you know ordered, can stand aside and they're they're, very notable video, and why the doors and african american officer
saying to the peace protesters as a stream in it. I don't agree with.
But respect you, which is just completely bizarre, but then elsewhere we have videos of just outright war. Between he's off,
Sars and the rioters there's really affecting video of a police officer getting rushed by these protesters between the door is trying to protect and in these protests, are seeking forward yelling. I believe heave ho, just really making an effort to force the door and the video that I think began to get attention a lot of attention yesterday at the fight at one of these tunnels, which went on for a considerable period time and cops being dragged down the steps one one by his helmet us so so this was there is no mistaking the violence of this assault and the determination of the leaders of this assault too, to breach the capital get inside. You know rich a lot of times in our politics problem
less for years, a physical, accelerating point of contention. You'll have a group of people. Do something, and each person's kind of psychological camera will focus in on one area trumpet
Let's villain thee,
his the infamous very fine people, comment that there were some people there
just wanted to protest the removal of confederate statues
and then there were some races yahoos who had mayhem on their minds there that data, the guy you ran down. All those
kill the young woman in a car right in a blanket
matter. Protests and the George Loi protests that their clearly, where some folks who are genuinely committed to peaceful protests there and there were
people there who were eager to
saw an opportunity, get a flat screen tv through looting and to set arson and to be people locked, enter with cops and and your hundred destructive things. It doesn't surprise me
the end, I feel a little. I was either a lot of things are very bothersome last week. I think something that kind of got lost in the shovel our Biden and
probably be worse person in the incoming administration, Comma Harris who just painted with debris
just a brushes that the? U S, capital police, had let
The riders take over Capitol Hill, ably that was Comma Harris's term. Let them know they had not. One of them is dead
another one committed suicide over the weekend. All kinds of only fifty some of them are injured, use capital police did not give up their ground
by the way he watches over these videos. I watch plenty of the last week,
You begin to see that you're, looking at a half dozen guys or a dozen guys with a thousand people coming at that more than a thousand people. In some cases
there's an impulse video which allegedly shows them opening the the gate either pursued, took
video did Araby with news weakness. We out the gaps are not enough. There were letting them through
because they need is their basely were retreating. They knew that it at a second. Now the gate was gonna fall down. It was a well those metal ones. It was not hot yo tall, fencing anything.
And they felt that a better chance of keeping them out by standing in the doorway than they did by that fencing. That was some distance away from capital. It of members are right decision. Maybe it wasn't. I
I have no doubt yours, kappa police, made mistakes in the circumstances they therein last Wednesday, there also impossible circumstances
There is no good or easy way to stop thousands of people from coming into a building and I'm gonna feel like. I have been struck by the discussion of this sum someday linked to someone today, the characterize the: U S, capital, polices, markups,.
Capitol hill- maybe it looks small on the tv. If you haven't been there's about two miles by two miles with capital complex, not just the capital building in the dome
get the how side get the Senate side each one of them has office building surrounding them, yet library of Congress.
You gonna, run tunnels connecting the whole thing. It's a labyrinth. Radio
We want these buildings has multiple entrances and exits, because that's what you're supposed to do with God forbid, you ever needed to evacuate the bomb threat or something like that. So.
These guys had a really tough job, and I really didn't like the quick need, your criticism of the Eu S, capital, police particular from the likes of common Harris,
This is good
I have no doubt you can find a video of cops who did not proof real. Who were too
thirdly did not hold there, but we all stand their ground or keep them out.
To be getting along with them. I am unnerved by the claims that does to us the capital capitalist one was lap currently taking selfie
with I'm one was apparently wearing a magua hat or something like that, but dumb by and large. I think these yours, copper police deserve our thanks and a bad day could have been much much worse. Had the majority of them, not
Their duties as well as they did it can ensure been an Annette that for second too, if he know
We were not only so severely outnumbered that
I even would let some of the selfies megawatts of slide, because when you ve lost
control of the building and now you're trying to defuse tensions, diffuse energy depending on what is happening
the hallway you're in I would even
grant some leeway there, because what you really don't want right.
What you really wouldn't want and what
It probably be really afraid of. If you were in the capital police.
Is the capital please decide to take a desperate like
our most style stay
then go down firing, and you know if you kill
teen, mostly unarmed Margo people in the me lay in the in the. In the afraid I mean that's
That is exactly the kind of event that becomes a color revolution right, like that's exactly the kind of event in Kiev
that people say, while now, this government has lost moral legitimacy. That's like one of your worst case.
Area, so I'm on even willing to Lake let some of the South EAST of slide
so Gemma around with flip about this. But let me ask exit question,
How alarmed are you by the prospect of further violence in the weeks ahead, puritan, seven or eight supper?
that I think is more likely that not be hearing from people I do respecting. Oh, this is getting much more trap.
The flier that was going around on line is getting much more traction from people freaking out about the violence than the kind of people who would be interested in participating in an arm protest on cap,
but apparently the
FBI and you ask Apple Police- gave a briefing to members of Congress today that like turned their hair gray, but the ones who didn't have greater already, apparently freak them out and look. Maybe it's all nothing. Maybe nothing happens. Maybe it's all big talk in a door in the days of Al Qaeda and ISIS Weird shatter about bigotry
all the time, but certainly a lot of people say and they're gonna show up at Eleanor Duration Day and start a whole lot of trouble and beneath
I'm a little bit lower than Jim. I think without
president on Twitter. I actually think the risk is lower and maybe we will reflect on and why that is soon. Yeah guess I sex are sound and I think Washington, as can be really lockdown. I worry a little about stay capitals and then they just limits to what you can do to control. You know known one off, not jobs, sir, but I think I think DC will heed.
Migration and that sort of thing what will be locked down quite effectively providing vistas of vast amounts of security. That alone will be dispiriting, but when will stop any disruption, the the workings of the ceremonies of the american government going forward here with that less poor,
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lies so every day, as you mentioned, the president is off to,
it's amazing, how that this decision, which is cut up arbiter
an ad hoc hard to justify, given that the kind of people who are still on Twitter has practically render the president new,
You know it is reduced in isolated state
for a kind of his main way of communicating and now that's gone
were hearing last from him with we saw him today, went doubted Texas, Fer a trip and briefly stopped and inform the cameras on his way to the helicopters, but that this whole pace of the trunk presidency where just use.
During the pot constantly first thing in the morning when he's hate watching tv
during later in the evening when he was watching Fox and getting random ideas from from Fox anchors and
Everyone was being yanked around by this, especially journalists. That's all just gone and just just remarkable how important twitter has been to this spring,
yeah, and what we're too is he hasn't set up an alternative. I mean he could do it right. I mean you can get now the trump.
Campaign, what's what's left of it to set up a weapon in independent website,
and you know it
out these snappy little statements that would get reported right in that journalists would broadcast because they are the words of the press.
But in studies is taking it armor on the chin, I guess
and probably playing into
the sense of victimization that many of his biggest fans feel
because it wasn't just it didn't end with him really like it. It started with him a lifetime ban
Would you interesting Lee was justified by Twitter as because of a present emergency because of a present danger of violence there banning him forever from the service that'll be hard to walk back and its interests
it's it's not forever sized justification and the effective it has been. I I think both
you, said earlier that I think it's muted, some of the momentum for impeachment and conviction among Republicans,
and it's also rebounded some of his base to him, because you know a trumps political identity was. He was this LAO
Flash can't ignore him. Media presence speaking up for the forgotten man
and you see among his like most hard core active based on social media, with real identification with him and fear that the big tech companies are coming out for them too, and it they're gonna deal roughly with him,
that, when he's no longer kind of standing in the way as the big target their next, so I think it was I you know. I took his terms of service lick. The this was an appropriate reaction.
Whether twitter follows its own terms of service very well. I don't think it does, and I don't think.
Silicon Valley is particularly good at making these decisions they they they have a habit of
being extremely reactive. Rather,
and pro active and it's just as they make it extremely easy to criticise them, because right now and you can t-
not very politically smart right now you note, the chinese government is taking the opportunity to write
Do people up even more by having it's like saying: it's US embassy Twitter, account tweet stuff, that's like Bob Lee Pro genocide of the Uyghurs in China and they're doing it on purpose, to Robbie block me like Jack wiring. Aren't you banning this? This is just as bad. This is worse than anything. Trump has done
Here I think, while that individual decision may have been justified, I dont think
twitter or the larger Silicon Valley kind of apparatus that joined in. I don't think they were well thought out political rationale or strategy, and I think it's gonna royal people up yet Jim my problem with this- and I am not. This is not area optically closely, but
They have these terms and conditions and in rules, but they just seem so arbitrary that that they allow them to act.
Or not, act at will, which basically means that's crazy. You dont have rules here, I loved the problem is not the rules or the twitter
YO with safety and responsibility standards or whatever their calling at these days. The promise it nobody- and I mean nobody, believes the twitter applies them consistently and even handed
Besides examples that that Michael just mentioned to me
you're right all overran still on twitter right now is the ever put anything up that warrant Sayer.
Never mind a suspension for a period or can't there or termination of his account. Haiti
because they ever felt immunity,
to put a warning label on anything that they call it. Does you know
The chinese government spokesman in it took up his hat concerted effort on the part of folks who are
raged by Louis Farrakhan to get lost,
because not verified lose work on still on twitter
You settle all kinds of abominable and horrible things about Jews. I haven't seen the the twitter so
team metaphorically, kicking out his door? Now what I will say the twitter gave trumps, something in the neighbourhood of law
if you think I think of a warning label as a warning shot as an indicator of hey, you are violated area where you dont use our
platform to say these sorts of things. You are you're putting spreading information.
They gave him in the neighbourhood of like what a hundred warning shots. Two hundred four shots of it,
I figured it was a just about you, no matter
physical certainty to use the phrase we keep using on here and for the Mclaughlin group that trip
What are we going to shut down his account? I just figured they wait until after he left office. I think these sequence of of last week, where Trump put out
The angry tweet denouncing pence as the crowd was starting to get through the capital.
And then his that's what you get. That's what you get tat style response that evening prompted their twittered say: ok, that's it!
No I'm turning this car out right now that they could not abide one more tweet by this guy.
Yeah, of course, they're they're, hypocritical about that. The reason that they came down on trumped like a ton of bricks, although, admittedly I think he had it coming in particular for those couple tweets and they don't jump on Louis Farrakhan, and they don't jump on the Ayatollah and they don't jump on. The chinese government is because what offends them is what affair
A typical, hard left, very woke. American energy is not all that worried about what the China is doing to wiggers or something like that. It's just not important enough to them. Stopping Donald Trump is, is the emperor is important enough to them
and that's what drove their decision making and make.
This will lead an exodus to twitter. I ate up the all of us: have
hardly had at least one experience through put someone out there at the response
it's just you know, Jim, you think I'm used to get not gonna, stop. Think back to like twenty fifteen twenty. Sixteen. Where do you get the were? You know the photoshopped image of trump?
ever your image was saying we're going to put you in the others by the way, my jewish, but apparently I'm u no mark. For that too.
I got several vivid
pages of Jews being blood suckers. I dont don't twitter
suspended those accounts, Twitter ever shut down. Those accounts reported M by civilians.
Don T be metaphorical whenever the wastepaper basket somewhere Twitter headquarters
This was an issue and after them, so Twitter, you
twitter might be in the right here, but they have
squandered whenever moral authority they had by being so arbitrary, their application of their
rules that everybody just sees this as them going off on a vendetta these days in this
Yo Jack Dorsey, literally like within twenty four hours posted a picture of himself with Prime Minister Mahdi of India, who has like literally incited deadly riots against Muslims. Ike I mean it's, it is pretty astonishing and it brings up a lot. It brings a much bigger questions.
About whether you can have a kind of you know, a planetary party line style of communication right like Munich,
asian, totally and mediated from now.
National or social context, and I think they're gonna be big repercussions in the in the coming decade for social media.
Sir, and be at another event last week is the effort de platform parlor, which is pretty galling since whether responses to people complaining about Twitter and Facebook, another socially
media networks is. Oh. Ok, conserves go and start your own social media network view viper
Ok, oh yeah! We're going to do that and now just coincidentally like her
every major tech company out, there has moved to make it more difficult or impossible for parlor to actually be that social media network. Would you make it?
Well, this is this, is this is a big
I mean I was an unpopular, but I know people who had accounts- and I know people who had accounts- you weren't even very political. They just went there because the you know they have
Oh, oh tray views on other subjects that they wanted to share, and
There's been this growing chorus. The kind of populist right that these taunts from you
lot of conservatives build your own this or build your own that that this just isn't practical and
parlor is a test in a kind of like test case now you know you could say parlour
we can foolish to rely on Amazon web services, for any services are hosting, because that's just you know giving it to control
your service to an enemy. But what am I more? Radical friends can and pointed out that there is a logical terminus to this, build your own argument right, so build your own,
Parlor build your own version of twitter, now build your own version of Amazon, build your own payment process, sir, but I mean the: if you're not allowed to do those things in practice, the last step is build your own government right. I mean that that is the final terminus of them
argument right is: ok! Viewed if you dont, like the laws, and you don't like the way
society. Big social institutions are colluding against you and you dont, like that: the constitution,
bids you from doing anything about it or the the ideology
go. Priors of the conservative movement forbid you from doing it. You know build your own and you know I think it's I think we have to. I do think we have to tread carefully here because we ve never had a media companies or advertising companies which are multi national in character have so much power over.
Public discourse right because it's not just like there's, Google and then their facebook and there's parlor national review- I mean if Facebook and Google and Apple really took a dislike to national review. They can do real harm to us right because they have so much power to direct traffic to block to throttle access. You know to put pressure on payment processors. You know it's incredible. There's a there's! A real there's been just real centralization of power in private hands and I think conservatives are going to have to start
about what it means for us to Jim Gym together. Parlor tat, I did not. My attitude towards Twitter was ever whenever something would happen. A decision would be made by twitter, thereby a bunch of people who
say that what this I'm going to join in the parlor and ladders. Okay- that's fine! That's your right, but you know why should I leave other people are being idiots
Why should I surrender political platform to two people? I disagree with the account of parlor of what happened: the account of Apple and Amazon Web services, this to occur,
Thoroughly distant cousin stay, they overlaps some, but not entirely. If the vote
in other words, put forth by Apple and Amazon. Web services is accurate.
There is a very reasonable one right there
He said we have continued to find her
threats of violence and calls insight, lawless action and include a tree shots and some of them said things like put liver.
Liberals a bet, a damn bullet to your damn had no one said: we need to start systematically start assassinating
RO leaders. I think it
I have to say that if you have a social media platform, stuff like that should come to an end
that staff there was in the hang pants and I believe,
Lynn would, on his parlor account said MIKE pensive ready the firing
why my pen should be first or something like that
Would anybody dispute if Europe,
she'll media platform should take stuff like that. Damn I wouldn't
it would not take it out or you would
I would take a deaf yeah, so in other words, if
you know Apple and Amazon web services go onto parlour and they find this stuff and like well what we get me,
associated with this, and they reached the parlor, the proper response
Four parlor, assuming they did not know about that, is to say. Oh my goodness me to know about this. Thank you for calling the store attention will take that down immediately. That's that has no place on our side.
If parlor did not respond that way than I think apple web Services and Amazon Web services, an apple ever say we're not doing business with you anymore, not parlor. Did they make a good faith effort to take this step down
I have heard much from parlor other that big tech, censoring us hard cases make bad law. Nor was there some people say love this
the first of them is there for the hard case the they really difficult hard to justify and hard to defend speech. Not that easy to defend speech. It does need the first member because it's easy defend, but I think you know threats and calls for violence are indefensible needed. Any risk.
Possible platform would take them down and if parlour was doing that than the gap on Amazon overrides the odds. Are you weren't? You know we're going to visit you anywhere now, if it,
if they were using. This abuse of these particular quotes as an excuse if they ve always wanted to be a party to take parlor down there. They ve always hated parlor, because it was pro trump because it was can
whatever it was friendly, Republicans or whatever. Well, if you're,
what are you can serve apply for don't make it easy for right, don't give
the easy excuse, a vulgar, violent calls for violence on your site. If point
our genuine made a good faith effort than they are victims here and Apple and Amazon or being unreasonable and everything
whole bunch. A really angry conservatives are saying about. Big check is true, but at this point that assumes facts now
evidence and I really love to see one side or the other put out a detailed
line of when they were notified. Of these things
whether there was a good faith as effort to get violent statements taken up yet promise. If, if you dont moderate the stuff, it just becomes sewerage just inevitably there
the bottom, but then once you involve moderating, then you know
they get into two fuzzy fuzzy areas and having to draw lines, it may not be sustain,
will then be the exit question to you. This this week marks and reflection point where
social media will inevitably overtime, become vulcanize,
and divided along political lights. Yes or no.
Yes and the political lines will be national or were you know you, China, Russia, America? The global internet is dying in the next ten years, count on it, you get it. I would agree, and I think this stems from the whole bunch attack companies that
it out in many cases more than a decade ago, with this probably very well meaning but ultimately naive view of we're gonna go,
the world a voice, and then some
sections of world started. Using that voice, and I learned the hard way the world is full horrible people who will want to put stuff up that that noble
What would have one I ever see and that's you know, I think in the end, these people.
Really realise what they were doing by literally
offering a platform in an audience to every single person in the whole world am also going to say yes and aggravated Jim entirely. That had naive. This is view as it just look. Look at Trump Twitter Empowered is very worst kind of communications, so he could say crazy, stuff,
listen and interviews and and press conferences, but there's gotta be a limit on that, whereas Twitter
enabled him. You know you can't be at a press conference in Retweet Linwood Ripe began. We do it on Twitter and his his account just became a suspect in the house, the Post election period and just cuddle worse and worse and hee hee, hee hee couldn't quite do the same thing and other forms of communication and that's what Twitter made possible
that, let me quickly pause. Do an hour plus bloggers haven't conversation with a journalist friend it the other day. He said I hate your hey law at national. You rich
you are of a similar mind if you hate or pay war, which is increasingly extensive, which is increasingly hardened
and more difficult to use all the usual tricks to get around. There is one really
Easy answer available to you wished to sign up for an hour plus sign a foreigner plus you long on the pay all disappears magically same thing with
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Amber, please sign up. So, let's hit a few other things before we go Jim Gary, you ve been watching the Netflix.
These travellers- yes in this category, is traditionally called the something lighter traveller
is not merely a lighter show. I will go to a lot of details. I just say that it involves time travellers is filmed in Canada with Vancouver subbing in for Seattle. It involves some sort of terrible future in time
Others from the future, coming back into our modern day, trying to alter the course of events.
Really well done. I think one of the knife by I'll let slip one aspect,
Really they give you almost no details about what this terrible future is and color
the viewers imagination run. But what is your? What has them so desperate to change? Things were
down well acted gripping. Some parts reminded me of twenty four
not really light and cheery watching viewing butter. You know if they
seem tents and pre apocalyptic EU these days. Maybe this
the television show for you, so I believe in listening to Stephen idealists.
Yeah Stephen Service is a british cellist and he is my favorite cello player in
classical musician around. I think his Bach cello sweets are the the.
Asked of the modern recorded verse.
Of them and in his very interesting
view of them, he used them as box meditation on the life passion.
Resurrection of Christ and he plays them with that kind of passion and one kind of great biographical detail about Iceland.
Is M his grandfather, Julius Measureless, was a russian Jew.
Who was them just one of twelve musicians allowed to leave Russia in the nineteen twenties to promote russian culture,
and he settled in Vienna, never returned and
The story is when Julius ISIS found a flat to rent from us,
hundred and two year old landlady in Vienna. She
initially refused because her aunt had a previous musician tenant.
Who was too noisy and spat on the floor.
That musician was Ludwig Van Beethoven
So this is it
and one of those amazing stories, and I services just great and like a great way to distress, to listen to him, play the cello
As I mentioned months and months ago, on this podcast sort, again re acquainted with baseball cards, dryness lockdown period have been saying someplace, where someone else's baseball cards, collection,
at hand. So during zoo meetings are calls. Ok, I just got a thread through
Carter. I really enjoyed awaited. They bring back memories of certain players and the backs of these cards clearly informative about their careers. That started a text. Conversations with fellow baseball fence, Jack Valor, Endemic Laughlin, based on insights. I've had about these places, look at the back of our cards, so I splurge and got myself some baseball cards presents for Christmas,
I was going to you because I love the the Yankees period in the mid nineties when I just started to get good again
I was looking for. The Topps complete Yankee sets from those years noticed one that released the site. I was looking at makeup. Look in the wrong place. There they're pretty
expensive too. I knows little ass strictly. These were near complete sets. You know they they
Don Mattingly or Derek Jeter would be missing or something cuz. I just realized. It was cost effective to buy the complete set. So I got myself a nineteen, ninety four one thousand nine hundred and ninety five one thousand nine hundred and ninety six six Topps complete, set
have actually open any them yet, but the boxes themselves are kind of colorful and and nice to artifact. Nice are
In themselves, so I am, I I entertain myself.
Sitting alone and in this room where I work all day, occasionally looking at these accidents. So with that, it's our time its time and if by gas
for our editors picks Jim Gary. What's your point,
I'm gonna go with one of my younger colleagues, Jack Butler with his piece. It just went up this morning. Madison call Thorn is a disappointment that may seem kind of harsh problems.
Member medicine, Catherine, the youngest member of the House of Representatives. I remember him speaking at the convention and getting up out of his wheelchairs standing up on crutches high hopes for this young man by the way, just feel weird have members of Congress that are younger than make that
Yo Catherine was among those who spoke at the rally and who had been echoed vat and Jack just not excessively harshly,
recognising that you know the youngest member of Congress is probably gonna, make some errors and then
a long ways ahead of him in Congress to set a better path and do not make the same mistakes, and I was pleased to see
a little bit sometimes at midday today Catherine said that he made mistakes. He said that
he had eaten regretted that which way he had lead people to believe that the elections had been wrongly decided and, according to a quote, article of seeing here in front of Fox NEWS says quote. I think, when the president said
marched out of the capital, and in March with you, there was a major mistake. He never should have directed that crowd towards for the capital that bad outcome was destined. At that point, you no good for you Madison, cloth or good. For you for admitting you made a mistake, its
easy to do it's not popular. There was nothing to you know. People will give you a lot of credit
on one side of it could be really angry you on the other side, but I think this is a good step.
I don't know. Maybe he were baby Catherine reject butlers peace. Maybe he did it, but I'm glad Jack wrote it and are they strike me as a?
A fair minded not overly harsh but directed honest way of correcting somebody when they get something wrong in a significant way. Anybody, that's your pic
So my pick is a peace. I think I disagree with a lot of it, but it's Kevin Limbs.
Kevin Washington's most reason:
The end of the GNP, which is a long kind of.
Travelogue further, the history of conservatism in that the GEO, peas, kind of eternal struggle between its chief,
or of commerce side and its more radical siding. He conclude
with this rousing,
Annunciation of the people and democracy- and I think I disagree with a lot of it, but it's just one of Kevin's, just great provocations, which you can't put down so go. Read it go after Michael Wheat, wheel of Mbd Kd Kd
How do you clashes? Media must be worth Michael? I may do so so light. Might
because peace by Rick of the american enterprises to education, writer, edge education, expert, called Betsy Divorce and the poisonous politics of malice. She endoored making the point that in a bunch, people dumping
Betty Divorce for quitting last week in what I believe,
entirely, some see her active
shock and outrage over what had sense transpired. What the president's role in it had been, and just ass makes the point that this is the kind of abuse that divorce endure during the entirety of
ten year in the drop administration. For no good reason, I'm betting divorces, never personally abused people worry used, vote
Language are attacking she's, I pursued and in good faith score reforms that she,
leaves, the evidence shows are good, forgets and good for kids, education and the thanks he's gotten has been the cause of the merciless onslaught from her enemies and free.
The last ok, that's it for us even listening to a national view. Podcasting you re broadcast return measure account this game without the express written permission of national magazine is strictly prohibited. This progress has been produced by the and copper.
He makes it sound better than we deserve. Thank you, Jim. Thank you, Mvd thanks to boll and branch sheets and to babble, and they specially to all of you for listening. We are the editors and we'll see
Transcript generated on 2021-03-30.