Welcome to the latest instalment of the editors where we will discuss the third presidential debate. Trump Recent Alex told, when asked performance yet and prompt initial refusal to accept the legitimacy of the elections and finally make momentum which is rocking Utah, and what am I pretend for the future of the party. I'm joint is always by earlier Johnson, by the right honourable Charles Cook, and in tunnels was always sitting in for some one or other thanks. So much guys fur being here aliona. What was your take away from the debate? Certainly transgress performance, of the campaign season. I think there's is absolutely no question about that. That came in

is thirty or forty five minutes of it where he clearly prepare and actually had facts and figures too bad his arguments and, I think out, match Hillary Clinton on the first tat and then really seemed to fall apart, which is something we ve seen him do in previous debates lifting its trump? Who has the stamina problem in these contexts and not Clinton? And he really stepped on. It stepped in it when he said he, wouldn't you know that he wouldn't accept the results of the election, and I think, in terms of the way the media covers these things, that, with the headline in it, didn't really matter how masterful of of a performance he gave in the rest of the debate or how or how poorly cling since that really was the takeaway. So it when you mention stamina, do you think he just loses focus and therefore loses self control as a debate, whereas on

I think it's difficult to know what is actually happening with him internally, but clearly focus and a self control are real issues for him and the heat, but we should I think he showed that is actually capable of preparing filled, seeing and keeping himself in check, but I certainly think that there is. There is a limit on the length of time that he can that he can actually do that for and in the primaries. He didn't actually have to keep it together for that long, because his moments in the in the limelight were very limited, but these are much different affairs where he's really has to be on the ball for four. Ninety minutes I was something we didn't see in the primary than I think he's had a real difference, they doing in the general action, the troll youth Ninety minutes is not a very long time and if he can be reasonably briefed up and discipline for three minutes. Why not for additional sixty minutes, but he can never quite manage it

sort of sea the wheels wobbling a little bed the voice raise is, you know. Harry mentions the forty million that he got from dad or another one of these items. Small baggage, and you can literally see him switching back to the same old, Trop lighting. the hits accumulate and he has a thing skin. Maybe he's capable taking one or two, but by the or force he feels the need to retaliate, and he does not seem to be able to do anything about that one of his greatest character, flows, one of the reasons I think he would be about president. He doesn't have that that com that most good presidential candidate seem to have. I told you good for Donald Trump, I think she's terrible she's been a surprisingly bad candidate. I was

the view a year ago that she would be the slight favour it. I don't think she I've been against anybody else, but problem. Ass always is that he com, even let himself win, and even if you take the view that he did really well, he did also Donald Trump, although he could have amount of it include some ground back or even though she just opened up, ass avenues for him. She did right at the beginning, had discussion of the super Call discussion of abortion, Africans is those views are anathema and at the end. He's sir said, while thanks everyone for coming to listen to me by the way the election is is over. I will not necessarily accept the results of which point of the media jumps all over him, and I think quite rightly, I dont know why he does that.

No, why he can't just let those moments go at every single debate. In fact, every single point in the cycle, he said something to take the circus off her and an off any. is, he might have so in general. Patients on the debate and where you outraged by what trumps out about they legitimacy election, let's walk outside with the of the former the things that that is interesting to me and that I think you now there were finished with the debate season we're, looking increasingly too to a post post election America likely with the Clinton administration and one of the things that interesting is the narrowness of of trumps trumps communicative abilities that badly purple? What I mean is this Trump, Operates within his own media bubble here he

when he talks about how he he gets it when he talked early in the cycle. Have you got his information from the shows We increasingly discovered. That was absolutely true, and not only that, but the the range of shows narrowed until by the very end, what we seem, but we saw is that Trump operates than the same the same bubble that many of his his supporters do, which is they read? small number of, very narrowly tailored media sources, and so there there basically involved in this sort of media feedback loop and when it that was it. even when he was lodging legitimate attacks against Hilary, was unable to articulate them in a way the maiden accessible for anybody who wasn't familiar with those sources we at last time when he he mentioned that she was for open book The obvious thing would have been the wicked

Revelation said this. You said this at a speech to this brazilian bank, Et Cetera, Et Cetera, give some context for that and make it would he just assumed everybody knew in a second debate the same thing with Jonathan Gruber, he just sort of raise Jonathan his name, but never actually explained the sort of what the real outrage was there, as we look to the future and think about candidates- and I know trumpets, sort of a sui generis figure in many regards by it's just an extraordinarily important that candidates be able to speak the language of of folks route to already through traffic in their circles at seeing. Could I just add a very quick note that I think that conservatives mistake this year was to acknowledge how because it is a concern, is to win

to nominate the guy. Who is particularly bad in that area, on the presumption that you would be particularly good in that area, so hard for conservative to get the message across given the media, given the complexity of many conservative ideas, given that many Minorities are suspicious and he is worse person who could possibly try to sell it, certain just that we need to find people who are good. We need to find peace. Ass, an exceptional and you're, the part of that was, was due to just sort of a bad reading of the last election, which has the Romany enormously depressed turn out, and so, if we just have this person

increases the enthusiasts enthusiasm of dyed in the wool republican voters exponentially than we can walk across the finish line, which, of course, is just bad math, but to the to the second question, rich trumps refusal to category equally combat to accept the election results was dumb I have said it was irresponsible. Do I think, as Jonathan she wrote that he is it mastic insurrectionists, you know, planning to take the rebels into the streets after he loses by Yuno five six, seven points: perhaps no and that's a nonsense and under so much hand wringing hand. Rending. That's just completely completely ridiculous,

treated the sun in the night. I haven't, I think it's still true trump is he simply does not to lose. He doesn't want you be labelled loser, and so he has to create, he has to lay the groundwork to explain away his loss as not as his not really being responsible for that, and that's all that that come really amounted to was when push comes to shove. He just couldn't white say if I lose I'll it'll be my fault. That's all that the amount to yell Leanna struck by that, because I think that clearly right about why. Trot the so insistent on saying this so its psychological defence mechanism, its protection, his ego, but then every the supporters has to go out there and

twitter on blogs, on cable tv and pretend there some high principle at stake that he's sending. What is it This intensely personal, interest and Annie party made a good case on the corner. How why would you concede in advance when they're really might be foul play a really close election, and you want to use em? legal recourse possible to challenge it and that's a fine. It will generate point, but I think tromp is more concerned with find a deal legitimize. A major defeat, eight ten point defeat, rather than worried about casting something really close. I agree with you completely. Might my dad actually made this point that trumps? You know it It's been two or three weeks now that transferring been going around saying the election is, is rigged and that that actually is

an advertisement of his understanding that he's going to allude to lose this election, not by a small margin but by buying. A big margin and he doesn't want me, say or admit that he's responsible for that, and so he's already pointing the finger the finger elsewhere and everybody to know that. It's not his fault it's beyond his control He has a he set himself up to lose a completely winnable, raise two credibly, beetle, democratic candidate answer, I actually don't think that I think that litigating, you know why would anybody concede to feed and so on this entire came from Trump, seeing that he's going to lose and ends and making excuses for it. Charlie he's gonna lose your pointed out earlier to utterly pedestrian candidate and out she.

She's, really careful and she's disciplined and she's hard working so hasn't made a major mistake in any of these debates and that that's a big element in her winning them but it's really striking a division of labour on the democratic side where you have, Clayton doing fund razors an ongoing in the lock down and then showing up for ninety minutes. To do I used AIDS, and otherwise all the campaigning is being done by other people, especially Barak and Michelle Obama, who are far more charismatic. Think in a sense what we ve seen this election- and I hope we don't see this in the future. We might is the revelation off of a self fulfilling prophecy progressive believe that demographic changes that are seen in the United States favour them, or probably for them forever. That all day to do is wait that the Obama coalition is impregnable

will stretch out into the future. The Republicans have serious problems with minorities cannot fixed because they are either ideological or structural and therefore that the Republican Party is going to have to become a chronic party is going to win. No, I didn't that's true. I dont think the Democratic Party is as strong as it looks. I think they have their own internal contradictions. I dont think its coalition is particularly coherent. Minorities are inherently, are intrinsically left wing. By running somebody like Donald Trump. They have made this Democrat. very far more likely because he does turn off those people that we need. He does make. The Republicans You look more like a racial in a group of rump party and that we presented not only with a chance to break them I'm a coalition up but

who demonstrate that Hillary Clinton is not Barack Obama and that Barack Obama was the prerequisite to the democratic waving o eight into the victory in two thousand and twelve that we blew it, I think, is an active of Austria, because vandalism really I'm just on the. If Hillary Clinton weakness she was now good during that debate, as I said she made, huge mistaken. Her answer on Hella. Seventy three percent of Americans believe the second remember protects an individual right clearly does not work does she believes it in a sense that is meaningless, as she has incredibly unpopular views on abortion. Only seven percent of Americans believe in abortion in the third trimester a com candidate would have now the wall on those two things and much more, including her corruption, and when it comes to what tripped trumped up, The final analysis: it was shared competence on his part. One

could have said if he wanted not to preemptively give up any claim he might make too. the challenge the election. Could I say is this Full faith in the american system is run by. The states is run by counties from by good men and women, of course, I'm not going to cost aspersions on, but we saw in two thousand, occasionally closer, actions can yield freak outcomes. and we can become bogged down. So I don't want to stand here and preemptively promises that won't happen because it could. But, of course I will at the result absent freak occurrence, and use you allow allowed yourself if it came to to challenge, but he can't do it he's not politically smart enough and given he's right against her. I think it's a tragedy, so in one of her weaknesses, it's just that this Hayes,

scandal that follows around and had this constant drip drip from Wikipedia a lot of which I think qualifies as really interesting and gossipy and death Jane for her underlings, I put Sir the catholic emails and in that category, but no one a vote against Hillary Clinton cause Jennifer Palmary said something upsetting to Catholics in an email in its three or four years ago, but other things that would in a different environment and it gets a different candidates, would really legit. may be dominating news stories and in one of these is as what we found out about the back and forth over this enormous contribution from Morocco to the foundation. You're. Absolutely a meme goofy all of these allegations is that they, they all seem to be mutually reinforce near they all. They all give us the same impression, there's nothing new that comes out recent. While I really didn't expect that about Hilary clan of course the latest, as is in that vein, and it's just that really is-

strategy, the Murat, government was going to pay her twelve million dollars to keynote a convention in Morocco, and she basically backed out in in he males to humor, saying that it would look unpalatable because the convention was there. The conference was going to be one month after she announced a presidency. We are so the of course that the donation, the twelve million dollar donation Two click global an initiative was predicated entirely on her showing up. So it was an absolute and obvious quid pro quo, which she backed out on for political reasons, It is as if certain extends its good s position she back out

On the other hand, it shows you exactly what we ve seen all along, which is that everything the Clinton's do is completely and totally motivated by what ever most politically convenient so we are seeing some really bizarre pulling at the moment. There been three poles. I think the last week that have showed Texas four points are closer with trumped just early leading we have Evan Mc Molin was leading in one pull the other day and a new one has just come out is one point behind Donald Trump. So, ever met. Molen has some real chance now of winning electoral votes, Charlie. What what you'd take on that, and, as it tell us anything about the nature of future of conservatism? Are the Republican Party I think he might indeed, when you outta the.

Joke I've been making in is becoming less of a joke? Every day is the way to fix the Republican Party and its primary processes to allow you talk to choose the nominated release, make it the first in the nation, I'm only half jokingly. Taxes are not in favour of the Alps there are just frankly, I was gonna, save just give you tar smoke children, but they don't smoke, didn't give them vapor. Maybe, but now I. That Utah has proven itself as the conscience of the nation in the last six months. It is more who have refused to back down against Trump and seemingly the the cold. Could you tell us taking is not to go for Hillary Clinton about to split the vote. We never know Melanin Donald Trump and maybe Gary Johnson as well. I think it contains only getting twenty five percent at the most. What does it mean for the future? Other than that? I genuinely do believe that moment should run everything. I think

It probably means that this is an odd election. There are long term consequences to a Trump nomination. There are probably long term consequences to a Clinton nomination for the Democrats, but they will be long term. I dont think going forward, for example, that taxes swing state and might be eventually It will be in twenty. Twenty same goes for Georgia, and I don't think that Utah will fundamentally changed. I think what would have happened this time around. Is the republic put somebody up who is just unacceptable to the particular culture in Utah? The big question for me is This means that the best way of circumventing from prison is with a third party. He's Evan Mcmullin I'm late for next time is the Republican Party, going to split. Do we think that a third? but Molly Night Party is the

today's to corrupted European? Indeed, it remains corrupted, which I doubt mindset one is no. I think the Republican Party needs to be restored. I think this year needs let's get and then forgotten, and I think the right needed move on together. I think without the Republican Party, as a vehicle conservatism would be in trouble, I never would have thought and their life in this category, but a year ago and laid out terribly we'd be discussing Macmillan ISM. So in our are you feeling of MILAN I am a feeling, the momentum, I've there was a kind of two Charlie. It really would be sort of Delicious formed win, just as the the the cherry on top. really topsy turvy year, to put it mildly, presuming of course that it's not you know we're not separate,

by just Utah's electoral virtue, the Mcmillan causing Hilary to win the elections would be might might cause trumps really take his his refusal to accept the results of streets but one of the things that that is encouraging- and I know it's it's in part because of of Utah's unique cultural environment- but time is also true of Wisconsin and some other places where, where over the course, the primary cycling through over the course of the general, we ve seen some real pushed back and sort of some consolidation of of of bore old fashioned conservatives, conservatives who are really uncomfortable trumpet and want to see a viable alternative. I think make Mullins ability to

on interest. A couple short months with a small team and small budget is just reminder that there really is a constituency out here for this here. We're gonna see that I think down ballot motive in large part and probably see it in spades in two thousand eighteen in two thousand and twenty. Hopefully, that you know the who, essentially, what Avonlea Molen is running is a campaign. This very much amenable to the agenda of Paul Ryan, which you know into into my mind, need some tweaks, but is is very much in line with, with what conservatism has thought of itself, as

many many years and what could be politically actionable and and good for the country in the future is others, those people still after so out of the way, this usually does, after twenty minutes of depressing conversation about how things are going desperately wrong. we turn to you for the bright spot. And Senate races and the state or the house always count on me for some after him. That's how desperately rock there's an unknown for sorry. I just want to provide a cynical t again. I pressed at first I want to provide some some cynicism, analysts Macmillan, rotation not done earlier pour cold water. When you talk guys, if we might, we, I mean fine, give him you tired, but he's running for our congressional seed in like twenty eighteen, and I dont think it matters at all. If he wins Utah, I mean clean

gonna win anyway. He might as well not run this campaign except to set himself up for a rational run. A couple down the line, which I guess you know marginally good for conservatism, recovery guns, but I dont think it says anything about the appetite for fur coats It is an honour for before you know, reformed criticism or Paul Ryan conservatism or whatever you want to call it. The fact that you know Mormon State is gonna, give its electoral votes to him. I think that some misreading, the political, no man if he was going away some other states and maybe, but I think I don't think, there's any take away, you from the Mcmillan can see other than that Mormons have stuck to their principles and find a Donald Trump distasteful. so earlier. On the on the Senate, we asked looked like a bright spot. You ve had, Are these candidates running ahead of trumpets we discussed many times but pull this week with with Trump down fifteen

in New Hampshire and carry out down? Eight which still means that she is running pretty impressive way ahead of Donald Trump also means that she would lose so what what's you're the scent of the state of play? Yeah, I think probably is not down. There is another point. I had her down nine points, but that's unlikely, but there's no way the trunk can lose new Hampshire by fifteen points in that colleagues can win in that state. I've been saying the sort of thing usually about Pennsylvania were Trump is performing ray, poorly and patchy is fighting, is late there and this I've been saying it just extremely hard for these sent a candid Strawn ten points ahead of their presidential nominee. They can run five point. Six point: seven point had anything more than that is really pushing it. I think that the two closest races in the country right now or in Nevada or Joe heck is running, Harry reads handpicked successor, the former state attorney general cap,

The court has master, I sat down with Doug Rivers, who's running there, you go economists CBS News Pour out of the Hoover institution along, pull sir, and he said that he thinks but he knows he's gonna win, Nevada pulling is historically bad there and its anybody's gas and really all the Senate races that are within a couple of points each other right now, which is essentially all of them other than states like Wisconsin in Illinois. Just don't have a great track record of the Poles being right in New Hampshire as the other one, that's incredibly clothes, but that is trending in the democratic direction. This it is true for North Carolina, which is trending democratic on the presidential level and where it's your birth is its fighting, keep his seat and the other race I dont think looks good for Republicans is in Indiana and those are four of the of the fire

seeds are the only for if they take the presidential race at them rats would need. So I actually think that things are looking bleak for Republicans in terms of keeping the Senate and there. The Democrats look right now a bit likely to win fifty or fifty one seats unless there is a huge wave, in which case they could take many more about the house, the I think, sued dumb. Doug, rivers, the you got, the continent's CBS Bull explained them You mean that I actually didn't understand before this, which is that people in saying that the house is in danger, because the generic ballot has gotten up in some polls to favouring. Grants by eleven points anywhere. Seven and eleven points really and was translated that directly onto the house. Our common and are saying that the houses in play and He was saying you really can't distribute those

into eleven points evenly across the country. There are a lot of ways you can distribute those. Those extra points for Democrats and people are acting like those points are distributed exactly along sort of regression line by that you need to take into account the Democrats have at a relatively weak recruiting Year and that, if there are you know about thirty seven races that are competitive, which is what the cook political report said. Winning thirty, two thirty seven of those races, which is what Democrats would need to do, would require an unbelievable swaying on the house level and is still looks very unlikely to happen. Griffith unit government in America what three times since nineteen sixty and only foot threefold, six. Maybe the most is

so guys, it's that time and our podcast for our editors pick Charlie. What's your pic, I would pick David French's peace, which is a van in our right. Now on what it's been like, to oppose Trump David, It's about a busy Scott online and then in real life. the abuse and others have have got in real life and on picked of his daughter being photoshopped just straight up hatred and bigotry, it seems not to have been an easy ride for him and his wife, and I think it's worth looking at exactly how this election has been for many people Leanna. My pick our latest cover story, which is by TIM, Alberta, called blue wave about the demographic changes that are demographic challenges.

Seeing the Republican Party as several states are set to become majority minority in the coming years. Texas already is majority minority and then hasn't tremendously affected, Republicans there but California. The great example, once Republicans were once dominant there. They are no longer and sort of a warning sign as additional states like Arizona, Georgia, Nevada are on the brink of becoming majority minority states and what Republicans that the different arguments for what the Republican Party servitude movement needs to do too to win over me already. Voters in my fingers off of the election beats, thankfully Rick brokers are has a piece in the latest issue of national review, remembering De Teeth man

who was according to Rick, not only one of our great writers, opened the again what I call him for more than a decade here at an hour but Papa, arguably one of the great magazine writers of the late twentieth century, sir. It some is a wonderful peace, because you get to experience, manners, writing and, of course, you get. Rick precursors, master, pros all around it. My pig is a peace also in a new issue by Matt Scully. It won't be to everyone's taste, but it's a very passionate piece about this case. Canada where a woman was charged with the crime for the offence of giving water to desperately thirsty pigs on their way. Slaughter, like a Scully work on this area. It's it's a challenge expand our moral aperture to include creatures

that we otherwise abuse or disregard that all the time we have today, Charlie In that way, Thank you very much thanks everyone for listening. We are the editors, see you next.