« The Generation Why Podcast

2012 Aurora Shooting - 243

2017-07-30
2012 Aurora Shooting. July 20, 2012. Aurora, Colorado. At the midnight premiere of The Dark Knight Rises, the last in a trilogy of Batman films by director Christopher Nolan, an armored man opened fire into the hundreds seated in theater 9 at the Century 16 theater in Aurora, Colorado. After the shooting ended, seventy people had been injured and twelve were dead. Law enforcement responded quickly and the suspect was arrested just after he left the complex. The question of who was responsible was not really in question, but whether or not James Holmes, 24, was fit to stand trial or not was. Mental health experts and lawyers argued over Holmes' mental illness and whether or not he understood that what he was doing at the time was wrong. Murder has a devastating effect on families and communities. This is never more evident than when murder is as a result of a mass shooting. See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.
This is an unofficial transcript meant for reference. Accuracy is not guaranteed.
This episode is brought to you by peacock bridge did the original limited series, a friend of the family, based on story of the Jan roper, kidnappings from nickel, oscar executive producer of the act and candy and after producer eliza hip and comes a dark. compelling, look at the harrowing story through new lands produce which amber burke herself, this theory stars anna pack, when jake lacy college hanks LEO Tipton and mckenna grace stream. Now only on peacock Taxes, age, ass and Y see is the next instalment of the award winning anthology series american horror story created Ryan murphy and brad fell chuck with to all new up so airing each week. It promises be a season like no other it s. An Y see stars returning favorites like Zachary window and Billy lord, along with some fresh, this is including Russell Toby and Charlie carver? Something evil is coming at Baxter
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a couple of gas canisters and then started firing into the audience during the premier of the dark night rises earlier. This is a brutal one, yeah mass shootings, it seems like there are the top, every year, I'm sure. If we look at the statistics, there are more. Them. Doesn't it seem that way there there, I mean we. I remember the the bell tower sniper guy in the fifties or whatever we ve had mass shootings in the past, but their way more common. These days, the news over reports on every shooting any time, there's anything that involves again to me. I kind of think it's a numbers game. We do so more people, and we have more guns yet absolutely. But I don't wanna oversimplify it, because wool go over case over the next hour and see where we end up the aurora shooting, was had I been before
shooting went down, it was supposed to be a great night families, friends, neighbours. Everybody He was heading out for the premier of the day. night rises, which was the third film increased for no batman trilogy and I would say, highly anticipated movie because the dark night as a monster success and after that film but he was was just itching to go back. the theatre to see what then spat. My movie would be like this was one of those night showings and it's almost has sold out crowd. It's crazy people want to see this movie. The other about four hundred people on attendance, They had it in one movie, theater thinkers, theatre, nine, but there
and so many people showed up that they expanded it to theater eight also, so they showed it in two different theaters that night. So it's midnight the movie starts. There is a man sitting in the front row and he appears to get a phone call and he walks out the emergency exit door, and he comes back a few minutes later at around twelve thirty nine and that's when he throws the tear gas and he's decked out in body armor. He has a bullet proof vest on. He has a helmet, he has a neck guard and he has leggings and boots. He was dressed all in black wearing ballistic armor that include
the helmet throat and groin protectors. He was also wearing a gas mask up some of the movie goers. Don't exactly see him at first the canisters go off, people hear the pop sounds: they smell the the burning they think somebody's set off firecrackers or fireworks in the in the theater. He shoots off a couple rounds, they think into the ceiling, and then he lowers his weapons and unloads on the crowd. He has a smith and wesson two to three pretty much in a r fifteen variant. He has a glock forty caliber pistol and a eight seventy twelve gauge remington shotgun. He also has another glock pistol in his car, but he doesn't use that during the shooting.
While he's firing into the crowd from the right side of the theatre, if your facing the screen some people are frozen with fear, some people are trying to run out effect, one and runs out and leaves his family behind. It's a panicked, situ action because there's a gun men who at first. No one really thought much of it, because there are people dressed up that night, it's a movie premier, so it's kind of a big deal here's this person dressed up. essentially in, but some people would describe as riot gear whose now shooting into the audience with an air fifteen, as a drum that holds ninety rounds. That a shock on, and he has a couple of pistols. He has a lot of ammunition and people are just not prepared. This when you go to the movies year, exe
How did it go see a movie you're, not thinking about getting shot now after this incident, people do think about that. We ve already, people contacting us and telling us their story about when they go to the movies they sit here or they watch for this. But before this now this was tat double event that would change things forever from here on out and I definitely think that way when I see a movie now because of this incident, and that's it scary and it's stupid that I think that it's like a shark attack is very unlikely to happen, but you have a fear of getting in the ocean water because their sharks. I carry my gun on me a lot now, I'm a conseil and care guys so now I m running around with it all my hip, and you know a lot movie theatres have sign out a lot of places. Business say no guns, you know no guns allowed did this
movie theater allow guns. No, it said That is the only movie theater at the time that publicly band firearms, from its theatre, from its complex of all the theatres within twenty to twenty five minute driving distance of the suspects house. This is colorado, they're, pretty gun happy over there. So this is one of the theatres that said no guns. It is very plausible that this why it was chosen, it's possible that it was just chosen randomly, but that's a factor. You can imagine a theatre with hundreds of people in it if they're all heading four eggs is at the same time, you're going to have people falling down p. who are being shot, are falling into their loved ones and knocking them down or pinning them down his rifle jams at one point, so we uses air, fifteen and he'll switch,
one of his other weapons switches to the shot gun and then the pistol. But there's a lot of debate were high capacity, magazines and air fifteen's people want magazines too high. Old. Ten rounds or less because then you have to reload more giving people a chance to escape, but because we don't limit them pike city magazines, saturate the marketplace, so anyone can get their hands on them. The fact that he had a high capacity magazine is I'll, be one of the reasons why I did jam, but I'm sure he shot many more bill rounds out of it before that happen. He's shooting randomly into the crowd some people close to home some people up and apply its is totally indiscriminate.
and some of these rounds are going through the wall into the other movie. Theater that showing batman the movies playing the lights around people can't tell what's going on. They don't know where the rounds are coming from. They don't know what this to your gas or these gas canisters are doing where they came from. It is madness, and all they want to do is get away when it comes to fighter fighter. Freeze, there's just fly and free happening right now, but still there are those out there who criticise. Well, they won't sacred size, but it sounds a criticism to me that no one attacked the guy men, especially when he was switching weapons or reloading, opt out, right now, iron. I carry my little piece
two three, eighty with me everywhere I go. What what could have I done to this guy? He was wearing body armor. Even if I pull my gun out and unloaded it might not, he might not have even felt it yet. He was decked out an arm from head to toe so yeah you can russia guy, but that's that's assuming you and five other people say we don't care if we die right now. Let's go make a suicide charge at this dude yeah. This is a hectic situation. You not organizing the do much he's shooting round after around. Finally, he had to reload or switch weapons, and that's when a lot of people who made a break for it and if you see the footage, the security footage from the lobby of the movie theater. Some of the impasse
ways that are behind the counter: sound popcorn, their hiding under the counter. The front exit door is five feet in front of them. All they need to do is hot the counter and leave and day freeze. These people are even in the theater, seeing the rampage and nay froze. Can't even imagine what it was like to be a net movie theater. Yet let's go over what he looked like again, he's in a very dark iter, because its showing a film he's dress, Fleetly in black cover in armour, like I said, even head throat and goin protectors and he's armed with a shock with an air fifteen tactical rifle he's got a couple of pistols. Obviously most people can't see a lot of this. But if you do see him an armored men s with a gas mask whose shooting people and killing
am I dont know how someone can sit at their computer and type out. Why didn't someone take him down because, as as I'd like to think about on a plane, and someone got up and started saying that they had a bombers and like, You say one thing in theory, but after you need the stories of the people who died in the people that live, who have gone through incidents like this all you can feel as empathy all you can say. Is no. I hear I dont know I don't know what I would have done either because number one you're, not expecting it. A number two now there's a hail of bullets coming towards you and towards other people in the theater. People are getting killed going down, people are hiding. What are you supposed to do everyone's a hero, all of a sudden, it's called armchair quarterbacking or I don't. I do it, I watched the o c or a man like. Why aren't you go in for the kill, a man? You have him her blah, I'm screaming
I'm not in there and that octagon were the man whose trained all his life to cause me bodily harm their arms in here yellin out a fighter who is getting paid to be there saying is not being Massive enough or not going in whom I and then people have the das, It is a oh. Why didn't you do something when somebody's gotta rifle to your head get out of here get out here with that police response was amazing. While people were hiding in the theater behind seats, or had already made it out. They were dialing nine one one within me within a minute. soon as they realised what was happening no one was being flooded with calls. It was me be two minutes and they are already officers arriving at the theatre and the police station happens to be just blocks away. So even better
we research some cases where there was a police station, not that far away, and yet officers couldn't respond in time, and it's because you know where they despatched to, and we don't know, but officers got there immediately a couple of officers outside the theatre in the back and they see a man outside of a white vehicle dressed in tactical year. Apparently the shooter just stopped and decided to walk back outside out the exit door to his car and put his. weapons down yeah his car was parked right outside the door. He had propped open the officers thought he was another officer until one things happen either they got close enough and they were looking at his face or this. The gas mask that he had on top of his head and thought wait a minute. That's
not police issue. Something happened that tipp them off and they needed to head towards this suspect. He gave up right away the identified who he was. He said. I have these weapons and I acted alone and the all I would warn them that his apartment was booby trapped with explosives. get into the apartment, although the later, but this is him just giving up immediately. Thank god, he didn't continue, shooting and I am glad that there wasn't a single police officer fatality these guys in other paid to serve and protect, but there are going up against the guy with a shock on- and I are fifteen slackened to go well form a two to three I will go right through a ball professed right through it out the back k rifle rounds. There's no such thing as bullet proof. You have to have a metal plate and their he's out, gun the police, and he
instead gives up the man that they have in their custody is James Egon homes and he has reddish orange hair. It's obviously been died. He was twenty four at the time he had recently dropped out of college He was enrolled in the phd programme at the university of colorado. That's pretty prestigious. He was looking too. A masters in neuroscience, jane egon homes, was born december. Thirteen nineteen, eighty seven and his Parents, robert and Arlene said that he was a very very good student and was in bed in sports. Had friends. and it was only around age, twelve that something changed. They moved. It was after move where he had to make new friends get into, school day. He sort of became more isolated, so he would still the school but after school
didn't, go and play with anybody. He came home and went to his room. His mother would say well, he seemed to just be going through a phase. Kids do all the time, I've Ben around enough. Teenagers lately were, I think, are they gonna forever be this way or are they just being a snark? You little jerk right now, because it's a face, and you know, if he's not out causing trouble, is that a phase that warrants attention? No, if you staying at home is studying and he's being a good kid. That's not a red flag and a great student I was put into a lot of advance programmes now he's arrested, but he will enter a plea of and not guilty by reason, insanity- and I know that mental This is a very divisive topic.
I've seen people who consider themselves to be well read on the topic or to have personal experience with it there, it be themselves or other family members, I've seen them argue about mental illness, so you can bad that whenever we say here will be scrutinised pretty heavily by some in the audience, but it's really it's jane holmes's plea that gets us started down this road and his actions are despicable. What he did in that movie theater. There is no justification for, but when you start to look at his background start to look at some of his behaviors, you wonder this guy's, not not the right state of mind, there's something wrong: yeah one, the first things people point out about him or his eyes. When opens his eyes up, pretends to show allowed the white kind of like you surprised
when he's not looking like that. Often he's blinking or is closing his eyes. It's very odd. hey viewer, but it's something that people noticed the trial and he's staring blankly at nothing, usually through people around while the charges are one hundred and forty counts of attempt- The first degree, murder and twenty four counts of first degree, murder,. when we look at the shooting itself here and wounded seventy people and he killed. Twelve is behaviors odd. He has his legal representation who is telling him to put in a not guilty for reason of insanity. That's what representations supposed to that's their defence It really comes down to protecting their client and I am sure other people would like to see and protected as well, where the first comments that,
said about him was that he was a coward for doing what he did, though comes to mental illness. There people will say well, he wasn't in his right state of mind, so you can't really, especially when it comes two cases like this, where there there's mass murder, you can't put someone to death for something they do When they want in the right state of mind, because if they were right state of mind. They wouldn't have done it now. There were some warning signs leading up to this right. Mother had said that he was acting a bit strange, but he and getting into trouble he was just now- being very social and just thought it was a phase, while this phase lasted a long time. It's kind of those things where, if you listen to her, it seems like it just gets away from you again. He Not getting into trouble you'd like to see him get, and be more social, don't I'm sure pushed him was he needed a job, but she didn't really
pushed the other stuff about him being more isolated, not being social. I think because she didn't really know how to approach that and if you think about it, parents have trouble talking to their kids about sex, and I could age and that there are also having problems stocking them about potential mental illness. We don't even know no identify at least most of the stone, because so many well, don't understand mental illness, they warn anyone else or take any steps to properly get the person treatment. So it it really comes down. The support system, you have and I get there. The arlene his mother was not prepared for this and at some point, James had a girlfriend. Her name was guardy data and recommended that james c, a therapist. Well, when he saw that their past me saw that person once he was then
third, to doktor, lynn, fenton, and this is where the warning signs were very much just because he expressed to lend fenton that he wanted to kill, a lot of people, and so she made some calls. She actually broke doctor patient confidentiality by collar James, his mother, calling the camp as security and contacting the bait programme at the university of colorado it, is set up to deal with threats. It's the behavioral and threat assessment team they are supposed to hear that were the warning whenever it is and then act on it if they so choose one. the things they had acted on in a prior event, was someone a student had picked up a pencil and had threatened to shove it into a teachers I now, according
to what I heard. The teacher wasn't very threatened by this. because they understood the situation It wasn't an actual threat. It was more of just the person getting upset, but they still I had a meeting about this when doktor and fattened contacted the beta team about this. Nothing happened, of course, later after the shooting happens, they really dont want. Comment on it, but it sort of comes out that well at the timing in a student anymore, so we didn't really know if it was our place to do anything exactly there were a few other minor incidents, one where he was at work and he stopped being responsive, he was staring at a wall and when people try to engage him, he would smile more smirk.
At the same time that James was purchasing these weapons, he also applied to become a member of a gun club called lead or lead. I think it's lead. He submitted the application, the I guess the owner or the manager of the gun club called the number provided for that James provided, and there was a really weird, disturbing voice. Greeting somebody, growling, the owner of the gun club, left a message cause. You know. Sometimes people have funny greetings like me or whatever it is, so he didn't think that much about it, but it still was very odd. So he left him a message. I think he did a follow up call and then the owner of the gun club decided he's kind of weirded out by this man and warned the other employees there
if this do calls dont register and make sure that you get me in front of a more. I talked to him first, because I wanted that him, so his spidey sense was going off about this guy I'll have a lot of time to sit down to read a book, I'm always on the go going from one festival or made up to another and audible offers mean incredible: selection of audio books cross every genre, although I think I stick to mainly the aea. Thrillers and true crime section as an audible member, I can choose one title a month, including the best sellers and new releases audible members get access to a growing selection of audio books, audio originals and podcast. There are included with your membership, you can listen, all you want and more gets added. Every month, Gillian flynn is going be putting out a new book. Soon All the news about Sherry Peppino you might want to go back and give gone girl or listen. Let audible help Discover new ways to laugh, be inspired or be entertained. New members contrived for free for thirty days visit, audible
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There were reports that he had planned to go. Quantum mountain on a hiking trail and abduct and kill people that were on the trail that I guess was possibly his original plan to kill people. It might have been what sparked a doctor fenton too, report this. You can download his diary that he kept his little journal. Where you can read madness, you can read things he talks about. Is a life equal to some life is equal to zero. My life is equal to zero. It's kind of creepy stuff one that factors into the shooting, because, according to what is later was that his life, words at zero, but every life he took would at a point so by car twelve people. He gained twelve points People were worth a lot more than he was, but this all factor
into the question. Then this is So this is a debate. was he insane at the time that the shooting occurred on here's, where we get into how much planning he did for the shooting after he withdrew from school and was withdrawing from society. He became obsessed with this idea this plan and he bought an a r, fifteen or smith and wesson. He bought a shotgun and then he bought these two glocks. Now he bought them all legally because he didn't have any priors record. He had not been court ordered for any mental incapacitation. If a doctor feels that someone needs to be hospitalized, they put something in motion by it. The doctors, including
DR fenton, who dealt with homes. None of them did anything like that. There was never a court order that institutionalized him or put him in a seventy two hour hold of any type. Even even then Some state laws it doesnt matter. Even the inner edge calls for a national database for the mentally ill to prevent them from purchasing guns. They fight a national gun registry and database but though, definitely throw others under government bus when it comes to a national registry. I dont know if everyone that sees a therapist or has a mental health issue should be denied their right to purchase a gun, but the areas and pretty strong rhetoric against them in colorado. I guess there is a red flag. If you buy two guns in a five day period, it causes
black, but does that really mean anything with that of stopped him, I'm doing the shooting there. What is it? Why did you buy two guns in five days? Because I needed em look the orlando shooter back. I was and so many watch lists we're still able obtain the weapons he bought, all these guns legally, and there was nothing that prevented him from doing that. He was never court ordered to do anything, although there are some red flags that are coming up, but how serious are they were not sure. Well, it sounds pretty serious if he says he's fantasizing about killing people He even made threats to doktor lend fenton both by email and by phone call threatening her. What does it take? now, I dont want to dump all this on doktor fenton by it. It makes you wonder if someone is talking about all this and you've met them.
You see how they are acting. You would think were given her credentials that she would want. to work with them, but instead it seem like medication was the answer. Well, sedation does prevent people from causing harm, but other factors Do you think are involved here, because I wonder if his high, I q, of his academic record factored in all of it. Does there is a video of him giving a speech in front of students at a science camp? When he's, I think, he's around eighteen years old is very well spoken. He is highly and legend and he talks about one of his idols and alternative realities or dream like states in that he's fascinated by that and maybe a delusion that is he went into. But this is a highly capable person
genius border lines on madness like trying to condemn smart people. Variety stretch of the imagination, but something happened here were he's on a downward spiral, but he is capable enough to buy some guns he's Capable enough to put together some bombs and some gasolene triggers back at his apartment, These are the explosives that he had worn the police about yeah before he left his apartment. He rigged up this entire system that when the front door was opened, it would go on. Off he turned on his stereo very loud obnoxious lee loud in an effort to get somebody to complain, so somebody would go and opened the door knock on the door.
get to turn it down. Police didn't know what to do with this apartment. It was obviously booby trap. They verified that there were jars of liquid with wiring attached and has just said it sits said to go off if the front doors opened, so they evacuated thee. It around his apartment and what I mean by her round, as it was actually what several blocks year, what they did since schools out they pay the residents of had the residents stay at aurora, central high school and direct I showed up and assisted the displaced families, and course the media's, asking them: what's it like you're, not at home anymore, you're living in a high school, and they quickly pointed out. Well, we I didn't lose loved ones in a theater shooting. So we don't have much to complain about yeah. It's it's an inconvenience, but they don't know how explosive this is going to be. There's enough accelerant
and jars of, two to three ammunition with gunpowder that are set to go off anyone that walks into the room is going to be turned into paint and an old buildings. Gonna burn down very quickly. He set this whole thing up and he bought these guns. He bought this armor. He bought these all this stuff he's planning this. out very provisionally, but he's a really smart guy. Is this crazy or is this someone that's in charge of all their faculties well illness comes in a lot of different shades here, just because somebody he's not in their rights data. Mine does not mean that there are violent person and it does not mean that they are not capable of planning a day out. What for that day may be so it's prosecution here, saying he's fully capable
buying guns and planning out this mass shootings, mass murder, so he's not crazy and is defence in other psychiatry are like just because capable of buying walking into a storm, buying an item and then using that mean that he's in his right state of mind. So it's a big argument that goes on, but they do institutionalize em for several months before bringing the charges. So when was he deemed fit stand. Trial. Jury selection begins on january twentieth, two thousand fifteen. This is three years after the shooting. The trial gains on April, twenty seventh of two thousand fifteen and the prosecution is after James homes. They want people understand that he definitely plan this
He knew what he was doing was wrong and, of course the defence will counter. Both the prosecution and the defence has mental health experts. That testify, and the defence really tries to get a lot of stuff thrown out so that it can be used, they say that there are so many things that would prejudice the jury against their client. They do their best to get things thrown out left and right so that they can protect james homes, for the jury that might be swayed by certain images or a certain information which I get it, but one I'm one I'm looking at this. I think these images are results from his actions. I personally armchair quarter backing here. I personally would have focused more on his mental state, however, focus more on his mental capacity.
but they lose. That argument, really what this comes down to, is he rigged his apartment with explosives and He entered a movie theater and at hundreds of people murdered. Twelve of them and that's it a mystery, that's not debatable. He did that and I think really there was a foregone conclusion right, I mean as long as he was fit to stand trial. This was it he was going down. He was going to found guilty. Absolutely he's, never gonna say I d day again, you don't do something like this in and walk see destroyed. So many people, lives. I don't know anyone in America. They didn't know about this, including people in other countries. This was so it such a big deal You'll mystery was where this was going to go during the sentencing phase, because some people wanted this guy put to death and
there's, including his parents said you can't put some one to death whose mentally ill it's not right his mother, worry that he was going to take his own life, she would contact him and say please don't, and he actually did have. a few attempts in late august, James home It is sensible to twelve life sentences without any possibility of parole, and then he gets, additional years added on which amount to more than three thousand years he's never get to see the light of day. Anyone that hates the sky. I totally get it it's a horrifying act at he's done. If you want punishment Spinning the rest of your life behind bars is the ultimate punishment, death penalty, that's easy way out when it comes to punishment and that something that was very much. James homes. His mind say at first pillar, the live and then the more
about having to spend his light behind bars. The more deaths sounded like the better option, but it wasn't up to him. Now we know James homes attacked the p, on this the he murmured people No, he was found guilty That's all the legal stuff. That's all the facts of the case. What we we want to know is why he do what he did. Many true crime story start with abusive relationships. The numbers of people affected by relationship abuses startling over one in three women now we won in three men and over one into trans non binary, people will be in an abusive relationship. Abuse of relationships early start with physical abuse inside there are often red flags like manipulation, isolation, belittling and volatility. Do you the signs of an unhealthy relationship. One love founded
in a national nonprofit dedicated to ending relationship abuse, empowers you to see the signs of an unhealthy relationship before things go too far. Viz join one love, dot, org and learn how to spot the signs of unhealthy and healthy relationship behaviors arlene homes. His mother wrote a book, it's titled when the focus shifts the prayer book of early in homes and as we are doing here, were talking about this case, we're talking about what happened why it might have happened. She does the same thing this her son. So she has all these people out there who prob we blame her in some way say widen. You do something about your son. You knew he was dangerous and of course, don't know whether she knew he was dangerous or not we, I know that early. Has been very open about what she was thinking back then, before the shooting happened,
and how she saw her son and again in her mind the great student not getting into trouble and when it came to the more difficult aspects of him like, is high social behaviour or how he would get fairly moody at times and can of lash out a little bit with his words. She just thought: maybe he stressed or something, How is she supposed to now and it's easy for people assail. What's your fault, you lived with them. You gave birth to him. You should know your own son. Look again and mental illness is not something that's easy for most people and our myself, I don't know much about it. I tried to read up on it covered a number of cases where mental illness is a factor in the degrees of which change case to case, but it's not something that the average person can tackle very easily and especially if you're, the mother of some one and then your
standing there in everybody's. Looking you and saying why didn't you do something? I can't him Jim what she's gone through, but she wrote this book and she tries open about her struggle with what, didn't do what she should have done, and I think her message, to the public is we need to get better educated on mental illness. We need to know what we're looking for. We need to know what we should do if we're concerned about a loved one or someone. We know what steps do we take. And she believes, I think, based on what I have read from her- that people need to be more pro act they need to get more involved. We need more avenues for people more ways to help people who need help and it seems like. Mental health is something that even to this day is something we don't like to deal with. And I'm not saying that all killers who are mentally ill need to be given up,
ass. I mean they're not going to get a pass. There they end up an institution or in prison there going to be kept away from the public The real question is is who needs treatment and just needs to be locked up, because Everyone whose mentally ill is not responsible for their actions, and it goes the other. As well and if they don't have a grasp on reality, what good, besides separating them from society, is it to throw them in a cell in a cage, If it's about punishment to the even really understand the punishment. I think we know from the trial and we're not going to go through all of it here, but we know from the trial that different experts its saw James in different ways depending on who you are looking at for our information on him hazy, their skits, a or suffers from a skit, so effective disorder or he's
psychotic or he what he was doing age, an angry man, possibly right yeah, which I know that there was speculation on whether his behaviour during trial and before pre trial in post trial was real, not. Who would do that? I, I know, there's the whole fake it, so you don't go to jail for the rest of your life, but he's in jail now or he's in. And now any still behaving the same way. What's the point continuing the act not really making a lot of sense there. Now they have separated him from general population, but have not told the victims, families or anyone where he's being housed, at least that was one article I read, they were trying to figure that out
out. I would want to know where my killer was being housed or the killer of my family was being imprisoned. So I would have an idea of where to look out. I guess, but I guess I have faith that the he's not breaking out any time soon and they're not gonna, be purling am anytime soon. So there's a little bit of controversy there. There are examples of James exhibiting real mental illness or maybe not depending on your point of view, but in the months following the incident exhibited some very strange behaviour: found him smearing feces everywhere there is time where he took meat out of his sandwich and then put it between pieces of paper and ate it that way and then find him gis spaced out where he was just.
looking beyond catatonic, they think he's faking it I'll these faking it, but then again I'm glad he's incarcerated and not able to harm more people. So it's half dozen one? Sixth of the other? I do you think he should be an institution, but I think you should be getting some sort of, but will not that sort of the hypocritical thing is he's been getting mental health treatment since he's been incarcerated. So why? If he's saying why? Why give it to him right so we're gonna have put behind bars but then he continues to get mental health treatment. The difficulty of dealing with mental illness when it comes to criminals. Is they say yes he's mentally ill, but he knew exact what he was doing. He knew he was going to do wrong and he planned it. So you can't just criminal against mentally ill people by sea,
Oh your mentally. Also we'll just put you in this category that says: here's all. that can happen even here's. What can't happened? You they're saying now he's to the ill but Zita land, all this still competent to stand for. He knew what he was doing was wrong. I wash an interview with nancy grace and Nancy, is pointed out that he told his girlfriend response to her question. She said why, wouldn't you kill me and he said I can't kill you because they'll know I did it then I'll get caught. And she said that it's a sign right there. That he's been thing about all this, he understands the consequences. Just because your mentally ill doesn't mean you don't understand consequences I mean this. Is the the shades of of illness he had the degrees of illness and that's what I'm saying is. I think we could say Now we're pretty sure that something- but are mentally ill are very capable people and other people are
completely delusional and I think what we with James here he's a highly function mentally ill person. Do you think that this was preventable and that's it question. I look at the end one hold, which is these He too our whole. They could put him on a seventy two our whole if doktor fenton had authorized it, but I don't know wholesome for seventy two hours. Maybe they get out and then they move I dont know. Obviously the medications didn't help or a court, to a new bbc documentary. They think it actually triggered him. So he was on assess our eyes or happy pills they put him and he had a reverse reaction or adverse reaction. Well, one The two medications that he was on was to deal with his anxiety and according to one of people who had seen him as a patient. They said he was the man
anxious person they'd ever seen in their life. So I think that the reasons for getting. The medications were very real. I think this is why so many people agree that he is mentally ill As we said its debate but whether or not that was large and a factor a large enough, mitigating factor too aunt em to an institution instead of prison adds it's a tough one, I'm that if I was in that movie theater that night, my opinion would be totally different. So it's hard for me to give my opinion so here in the safety of my home, with all my love, and still alive around me sure any one that has been in a shooting situation. Or maybe some of our listeners were there. That night did lose somebody. They might think now screw that guy, let them burn and burn in hell for the rest of his life. You know in a press
The mitigating factors are not a factor to them because they ve lost a loved one where's that fine line of keeping our rights whatever they may be our freedoms, but still identifying somebody that is a harm to themself or others, and being able to deal with that. I guess that's! The the fine line that we just haven't found yet in america, we haven't talked about the victims yet and since there were a total of eighty two, it's not something I can go through, oh less, but I did want to talk about those you die. in some of them who survive bout whose lives were forever changed. on Thomas Lattimer, who is seven years old. He was a petty officer, third class and I've been in, before a year. Rebecca and window thirty, two she
a customer relations representative, adam medical, imaging centre, Alex Matthew so in twenty seven he'd been married forward, just about a year and was a huge movie fan in fact the film premier was on his birthday. His birthday was on July, twentieth, jessica, gouty, twenty four she adjust in turn at a sports radio show and had been pursuing a job as a sports journalist. The really cool the thing about jessica was: she was at eton centre, mall in toronto, canada. Just one month before there. Seven people were shot into killed by christopher husbands. She just survived a shooting the month prior and then she law, her life at them. Shooting in July, Mikhail emetic, twenty Three was a student at aurora community college, alexander teams, twenty four
just received a masters and counselling psychology from university have denver. His aunt said Action saved his girlfriend life. He had pushed her down before he got shot himself and amanda lindgren, legally chow her name to amanda tv in honour of alex back when I was with his girlfriend samantha inner brother nick and they were shot at by homes, matt and nick. Both got in tween the gunman and samantha, and while she get shot in the leg, nick unharmed, bet Matt, was shot and killed, jesse chill risk. Twenty nine was an air force staff sergeant. He died. Protecting a friend of his. I watched an interview with her and he cried the entire time and she talked about how she lost a friend people, so that he was a friend of everybody's he could enter a room, he can meet new people.
and he was just one of those people that just he loved everybody. She knows He died protecting her. She didn't even know was shot until the shooting was over Alexander the boy was eighteen. He had recently graduated high school and was who attend rocky mountain college of art and design in the fall he had dreamed of becoming an art teacher. His girlfriend, who was with him at the theatre wasn't shot, but when she found out he was she tried to pull him out of there and she wasn't strong enough, but she moved him. a little ways and then stay with them for a little bit before heading out, and she thinks every about. What would Alex wandered to do John blank? Twenty six, he pushed his friend Janson young, down to the floor, as bullets were being fired. she credits, John, was saving her life. She said that John had told her that he was born to serve his country? John
as in the navy, Gordon cowden, fifty one. Was with his two teenaged kids at the premier. while he was shot and killed. Both of his children did survive the youngest big that was shot was very I can Moser Sullivan she was just six years old and her mom Ashley was enrolled in a nursing programme at the time she thought this would be a good family movie. Brian just completed kindergarten and was going to start swim lessens the next week when the things her mother I her when they entered the theater. Was your big enough to pick your own seat? What's really tragic about this. Is he was shot as well. She was shot and went down. And fell on top of her daughter and she's, that she tried to get up off of her daughter, but because she was so wounded, she just couldn't move she can get off of her daughter, This story is not an easy one to tell because, as I was reading about ashley and veronica- and I was watching
interviews with family members. It really affected me because their talk, about the amount of loss that one person has in this event and trust me, there are a lot of people that suffer losses at the shooting, but there's some about actually motor now austria, six year old daughter, but she was pregnant at the time and when they were operating on her to save her life. She law. asked her unborn child. She found out, days after the shooting that Veronica was dead and response to her mother and to the hospital chap and was I want to die, Ashley is paralyzed from the waist down two other split were shot that night, where caleb, medley and staff in motion there also paralyzed. I know there's been some comments of. Why was a six year old a bad man movie, it did night, that's move
they wanted to see their excited about it the summer, so there wasn't school the next day, yeah lee like us? I was in a nursing programme and I know I all scott into a nursing programme. On one point, I was told straight up: you can't work of hearing a nursing programme. I know there people I do, but I was advised the the place went to that. You should not be holding a job if you enter this nursing programme, because it will demand a lot of your time, ashley as a mother of a six year old and being pregnant with a with another child. She didn't have a job at the time I think one of the things you trying to do is make some time for her her kid and you find time when you can and if your site This movie you'd seen the dark night. Chances are you were like just an eye, we're pretty stoked about seeing the dark night rises, hey, there's no school next day? Why not go out to a midnight show? I know I do that with my kids. You treat them
it's right. Let them stay up late, because out for the summer there on vacation and it's too bad that people find ways to criticise this mother who had to go to court and the fight against the man that murder kid her unborn child. It, sir. There are no words for that. Can I address thee. os flag hoax, serve truth, their movement. Now this probably not going to come as a shock to many of you, by there are people out there. That say this was fake and it was fake. So they could take our guns. Yeah, that's does one stupid theory out there Others say that this was real in the sense that people were murdered, but it was a highly trained dealt a team that perpetrated this massacre and james was simply the patsy or the fall guy for it.
I can't even makes sense of a lot of the the nonsense out there, but here's some of their theories are. They say that james homes, father was about to testify for a big banking fraud scam and that his father worked for fighter in the credit unions. I don't really know what that has anything to do with anything. So I dont even fact jack if his Are there actually did work for five or any of that, because it doesn't matter but their time is the illuminati runs the banks, so his father was part of the illuminati uk. Whatever it's stupid, they say that the pictures of james homes, when he was eighteen during the science camp speech, look completely different. Then his court appearance, pictures and they'll put them.
side by side and say this is not the same person. Meanwhile, they will post pictures of these crying females from separate shooting or the boston bombing massacre and they'll say this is all the a girl and she's a crisis actor? So we have this image of this the younger women, maybe teenager at time and she's, crying when pitcher she's on the phone and another They say this is all the same. The same young woman well One of them is an image of Carly soto. Who was in the sandy hook, image there's another image of a man domestic. is the sister of Mikhail she's in one of the photos,
and then in another photo is just velasquez who was a cousin of a victim ag. I think at the boston bombing but they're saying all three of these images are the same woman but not well. There may be look like the same person, because if we look at the images there all distorted in some way, some people have act down the original images, and you can look at them side by side and see how they have distorted the images. The sort of make them look similar, but once you see the women in the original images they d look alike at all. So they're saying all these white girls looked the same yet when they pose a pitcher of eighteen year old homes, and then they pose a pitcher of him and his mid the late twenties, it's a different person,
see the problem there. I've actually spoken to two different people. I don't even know if I'd really call them friends who believe in the delta team version of the a hoax and one of them actually claims that one of the victims was a visceral- did with it combat knife in the back of the theatre like they were, they were planted around the theater and that's why bullets were flying in different directions. People thought that canisters were flying from different directions in people were being stab to death. Also, they believe this there versions of this military attack are very similar, so I can only assume that they got it from some info. or site or something to that effect. But it's totally gusting in and supportable They take issue that the cops got their way too fast. They were right down the street
take issue that the police taped off the theatre, for, days, if not weeks and did not allow riding family members or anyone to go into the theatre, so this is obviously a conspiracy to create a crime scene, although their investigating a mass shooting, so that sort of common practice to take off the sea in the crime or do we just let the public run all over it? I mean that that normally our normal criticism of it, instigations the and is that they dont seal them off and people taint them. But in this case you know the truth or movement. these idiots were saying all while they roped it. Also, why didn't they? Just let the public see what That's that's not how reality works, but another lost me at the images, because the images are so faked. These, some very mean hearted people out there.
They are doing this, and so then there is the other aspect that the whole thing is fake than these are crisis actors. Not usually they go to hum it's it's horrifying timmy that day they bring these Ideas up, you know it just go out to youtube. This is another thing I did is part of my research, which doesn't really I mean usually this as an end up on the episode, but I go out and watch some of the tributes from france. or family members for these victims- and these are gist, little videos made in someone's home? with their own images? Things like that set to music they're on their own accounts, and you can watch one's life unfold, he watch him as a younger person has an older person getting married, graduating college and see them with their friends. These are real people that died when they say that they are not really murdered? It's fate or they say that,
Adele does he went and look, I think anything if a person would know that, if you sent in to stephen several well trained soldiers, just regular soldiers with rifles that d body count would have been a lot higher will we did the boat way sniper case. These are one train soldier in a teenage boy who was barely trained and we saw that they locked down entire city so yeah put in highly trained delta for soldiers all for what they say or to take our guns. We have our guns been taken away. No, so I'm kind of wondering where this whole conspiracy idea comes from, but its people that have a
his grasp on reality. Take cherry pick their tidbits of news cas. I try to make sense of even trying to explain their theory, but I can't even do it because no two of them would even agree upon it. Some say the whole thanks faked some some say it's a seal, tamer delta team. something the uk hear stories straight line. Don't think the people perpetrating these. These theories are all me now crazy if you look at the manipulation of the images this is done. This is done deliberately. I guessed what in thy I dont understand. I hate me and you have a healthy distrust of our government. Dont really appreciate most of the government. carbon out there, but it has less to do with malice and more to do with incompetence. Well, I think it's as simple as look what Charles Manson did its by having follow
it is about having people who say while you're telling us would it. About man and that's what The legions of followers are doing their writing and you can see it on the new side. Some of the comments are people saying. Oh look. This was all experts This was all fake, it may say This is who will tell you the truth and they name off these people who are- right, lying and manipulating things to make. It seem as though this was a false flag of it again and I followed a lot of victims from mass shootings on instagram and twitter. I've actually approached a few of them about doing interviews with me and and a lot of them are very apprehensive because they assume that I could be one of those crazy, not jobs out there, that's trying to expose them for being a crisis actor
and I get it you're talking about the memorial videos on youtube, go to the common section. You'll see disgusting accusations and and hateful common denying telling these people that their their children were murdered that their loved ones are still alive and that their just an actor and there's no sympathy here, no call them names or attack them, and I stopped approaching some of these victims from these survivors from these events, because you know what they might get on with their lives. They want to talk to me. They come to me, but knock and annoy them anymore. Obviously, the film in question was the dark night rises made by Chris for nolan starring christian bail. They definitely felt the need to reach out after what happened christian bale actually showed up in aurora on his own. Just
to try and offer some comfort if you watch the amount pain and suffering that this event cause imagine. Actor whose in a film that was showing in the theater at the time, and it seemed ass, though a good number of people are very open to this. In fact, a noah one of the relatives of some of the victims got a tattoo on her back, that's of a memorial in memory of thy believe it was Veronica, Mosher Sullivan, her tattoos actually I've batman and has written on it? A bow Veronica, so christian bail released a statement. Words cannot spread the horror that I feel I cannot begin to truly understand pay grief for the victims and their loved ones, but my heart goes out to them. So just there was a heavy topic. I know I was getting affected reading about the victims and, of course you know most of them survived, but it's something that really sticks with you, and I can see why, when you asked me,
more about significant new store. that they remember in their life. They recall columbine. They recall the aurora shooting, because the amount of debt station. He sticks with you yeah and unlike serial killers that are horrifying and scary in their own right, mass shootings, there's no safe place from those he can be at school. You can be at a movie theater, you can be wherever in this can happen and that's why they're truly terrifying, because you never feel safe any anymore, and I know that there are over reported. They don't happen. Nearly much. I know when I talk to listeners in other countries there I call my god. I never want to come to america because I'm afraid I'm gonna get shot. It's not that way here, but just like you're terrified of a shark attack just like you're terrified of a serial killer, or somebody abducting you,
or whatever may be. Mass shootings are actually one of those things that I fear it's it's in the back of my mind, regardless whether I'm armed or not doesn't, is almost inconsequential somebody walks in and just points a gun at my head and fires, yeah, there's no there's not much! You can do in that short amount of time. can be prepared, can be always looking around on your surroundings. Looking over your shoulder, never have you back to the door and always be close to an exit. I guess, but None of these things really matter at the end of the day, you are victim if you do catch herself in the situation, and I think it's one of the most terrifying things that somebody could, Go through love, you any thoughts or if you have any personal stories about the aurora shooting feel free to send the men at genoa. Potted male dot com or the one of our social media contacts either
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Transcript generated on 2022-10-15.