Brandon Lawson is a man who went missing in 2013 after his truck ran out of gas and he made and received a number of calls. We covered his case on episode 193. With a new push to get answers for the family, Jason Watts, a friend of Brandon's, reached out to us to see if he could speak about Brandon Lawson's case on Generation Why. We discussed the case, where it's at now and what Brandon's supporters are planning for the future. I really hope that their luck improves and that the case can finally move forward. It has been almost six years since Brandon went missing. How can you help? If you know anything, please see the contacts below or visit one of the sites listed for more information.
Private investigator Paula Boudreaux:
Coke county sheriff's office:
This is an unofficial transcript meant for reference. Accuracy is not guaranteed.
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how an extent vacations joining me tonight.
is jason watts, a friend,
Brandon lawson's it's been
time, but we covered the brain
in case on generation. Why, and we
like everyone else who has come across his case has found it.
ass naming and yet tragic and said
it remains a mystery hello, jason,
Hello, how are you doing well, thank you. How do you know brain in Lhasa,
Brandon and I attended the same high school and joshua taxes we
knew each other. We had some classes together, we would get it.
To each other. We passed in the hall this stuff, like that always always smile on his face
nice guy would give you the shirt off his back to help you out as kind of a awkward goofy kid in high school, and I caught my share of flack for it. But Brandon was one of those people that never ever disrespected me and he always treated me with their with the utmost respect and was always nice to me, and so you know, I always had that same respect for him.
And when he went missing, I kind of decided to take it upon myself to try to help his family out anyway. I could add that, basically, what I've been doing for the last five years,
what do you know about brandon's parents? Do you know much about them? Well, I know they mister sound, very much and they haven't given up hope and trying to find him and I've gotten to know. Brandon's father Brad a little bit and I'll have a lot of respect for him he's a real.
Nice guy worked hard and he's a true leader and a true patriarch for his family helped keep the fight to get help bring Brandon home going.
What do you know about? Kyle, Kyle lawson has only really bad
people's radar, because he had spoken to Brandon round,
time that he went missing bright but brand,
cow or very close, that whole family is really tight, knit they all
each other and have each other's back. Some too
kyle Brandon was, you know, was like it was a good roma.
allah and a hero to him? It matter of fact, when Brandon, I'm not sure which one led the other, but when Brandon moved to san angelo Carla with him. You know they went down there for looking for work and stuff
like that, and so they were always there for each other and they had a real
get strong bond
Kyle has felt some guilt. You know over what happened. It's an honor
the losers older brother
and how much older was brandon, then kyle
I'm not sure exactly what it is like.
two. Maybe three years like that I've seen a pig.
sure of the two of them and they were pretty young and they look about two years apart, but I did it out if you knew
I don't have the exact number, but I think it's like two or three years
Do you have any memories of brandon from high school that would shed light on his personality?
yeah. I have one that sticks out to me. Ah, I don't remember which grade we were in at the time, but I remember I wanna say: is history class and
the coach said something, and I don't even remember what brand etc some smart aleck, but the whole class burst out laughing and we were. We were laughing for like five minutes because he's just so darn funny and that's one memory that does stick out to me. Ah, pretty strongly he's a good guy like to make people laugh just
like to go a good time till he was the kind of guy. They could bring a lot of people together, yeah yeah.
He's in a room. He can crack a joke everybody's right there with him yeah. Absolutely that's one of the things that we
really get to know about people have gone missing. We
get their stories a little late. It feels like and then the mystery of everything takes over. So we don't get to know them as people and said getting
to talk to you. I I just wondered: how did you feel
about him as a person. What were his personnel
traits like just so people over
our idea of who this guy was and maybe is
Yeah yeah absolutely- and I think, that's always important to know. I've said this before and I'll and I'll say it again. I mean whenever you have a case where a person is missing, or even you know, is the victim of a of a murder or something like that. I always think it's important to get to know the story of the person just as much as is the story of their their disappearance. You know what I mean,
next the audience in a much more human way to the victim? Another person that central to this case is lead esa, who was Brennan's long time girlfriend
and the mother of three of his children? What do you know about? Let s a very tough lady. That's the best way.
I can put it she has,
man you did. You could write a book on this poor woman's journey of everything she's been through over the past
it's five years. She has been through hell and is still fighting. You know, she's held it together for her family and she continues to keep her finding Brandon one of her main focus points. You know, I can't say enough good things about her she's black. I said one tough lady
When Brandon disappeared, it was le desert who really got the ball rolling. I tried to find him before really even law enforcement did when she immediately started getting up in helicopters. Print flyers just do whatever she could. You know to try to find them and try to get his name out
there are so many people must feel powerless when something like this happens for her
being a mother and trying to keep
everything together there and try her best to,
ok, Brandon. That's quite a bit further deal with exactly
let's go to the night of for anyone.
it now- and I be surprised, genuine, doesn't know- that's listening in us, but the stuff
brandon loss in as we ve come to understand it is he got into an
Argument with le data and
I told them that he wanted to go over to his place. Is that correct? Yes,
The plan was that he was going to leave.
Stammered his dad's place, so everything would cool off that's correct with brandon and would also would have their arguments enemy. There were like any other cup, you know what I mean they have their arguments. Every couple does it was not uncommon for one of them
To you know, leave and color chill and clear their head and then you'll go back and try to hash it out lots of couples. Do that
so when he went to leave what do we know about
that moments, because I know for a fact that he took their only charger there, only phone charger
direct, why he would take that well without knowing what percentage of battery power is don't have when he left the house, I'm assuming you took it, so they want to go to his dad. He could plug estonian, and
That would be the most reasonable explanation I can think of
brings to mind another question which would be: how long was he
to stay at his dad's, because if he took the only charger, then
I was his girlfriend going to charge her phone eventually. Well, she had a phone charger that plugs into the cigarette lighter work of her vehicle. So I guess maybe
He grabbed larger, and maybe he thought to himself well she's gotta vehicle charger. She could charging a vehicle should be eric and allow the
and was for him to go to his dad's, but he never gets there? What is the route that he would take to go from his place?
to his dad's and how long I think I know why you're asking me this question: I've seen it. You know hotly debated about the route that each
those are just so. Everyone knows there is absolutely nothing nefarious about the route that he took
highway to seventy seven to interstate twenty.
Two crowley road, which would take him directly to his dad's house, is the most direct route to take it's a simple north east south. I know the other way takes you highway, sixty seven and at lead you cab back through this rural is the really rural way to go. I mean highway to seventy. Seven is rural.
And it's very desolate, but the other way is way more desolate, you're more likely to hit an animal on us sixty seven, it's just it's not a route I have ever taken when I've gone down there. I have always taken an interstate twenty to two: seventy seven down and abroad. There's nothing nefarious about brandon's route at all. Once you get on interstate twenty, our speed limits here on the highway are about seventy seventy five he could have set the cruise control at
Eighty in some places I just cruised right on itself. What were now by the time he left. It was almost midnight, correct,
they around the letter, fifty four so an evening, that's correct
It was on august eight. So really the bulk of this story takes place august knife two thousand thirteen early morning you already addressed the
out that he would take the other question here. Is the gas how much
Iceland is truck, have because apparently
He was running on gas. So we don't know,
exactly how much gas you had a. I mean we can obviously as soon it was somewhat low since he did run out. I think he got into that truck and he probably looked at the gas gauge, and he said you know what I think I can make it abroad and he just unfortunately misjudged
I know you ve, probably looked at the aerial photos and stuff like that of the area and seeing the distance from where his truck was in the bright, and it does seem like it's a little bit of a distant, but when you're movement at sixty sixty five miles an hour up to seventy seven, I don't even think it's another.
five minutes drive and he would have made it. He was so close to making it into brought before brandon disappeared,
a series of calls made to and from his phone. But we know about these calls what brand and left the house he had been gone for, maybe a few minutes, and with this I tried to call it for she called him any did answer and they talked really great.
lie that she told him- you know: hey, go drive around chill out and either come back here or go to your brothers. I guess she hung up with him and set the phone
down. I don't I don't know, and so anyway, he proceeds to travel.
I ended up running out of gas, tries to call her and she doesn't answer, and you know it probably possible that she in the answer makes you still back. You know what I mean like the faltering sticks. Look at it. I feel bad about talking to him.
So he calls kyle tells him. I ran out of gas. Kyle calls will desert or less prolix further kyle answered, though he's not mad at cock counts as a or just call me ran out of gas. I gotta take him to gas. We leave me the gaskin says yeah I'll put gas can on the front porch I'm going to go put my phone on the charger in the car I'm going to go to bed tired, so kyle and audrey, and I think their little boy get in the car go to a dessert house grabbed again.
Can I proceed to head out to Brandon now as they're driving there they're trying to get a hold of branding? You know hey we're on the way. Where exactly are, you know will be there and the cell phone reception in that area is crap
so they're having a hard time you do you know
all of them and when they do get a hold of him? You know that the reception so spotty in the calf keep drop. It that's really the nature of all those called. So at that point it is nearly well. He needs our help. We got and help him
yeah exactly and how far away were they
Did they even know how far away they were? They just expect to drive along the same route that he had taken and run across him
you know, I'm not really sure about that. I guess when Brandon called them, he must have told them.
somewhere about where he was not just an assumption on. My part,
but if it could have been either one of those branded could have told them where exactly he was
or maybe it's as you suggested. They just
the gardener, like, I will add up to seventy seven- were bump into him somewhere by the time the child gets there.
Do you know what time it is in the morning
kyle arrived at brandon struck at one ten. I am that significant,
because that is about twenty minutes. After
and called nine mom one correct.
And that no one one call is basically
centrepiece of this case. This is the thing that people
listen to over and over again trying to make.
Ants of what it is
Brandon is trying to convey.
To the name or operator yeah. It's not a typical call either because it
The call that goes to a local nursing home, not some kind of a dispatch center yeah. I'm not exactly sure why that was, and it may be just because the population of coke county is so small that they didn't feel they needed a dispatch. You know, I don't know that a population of cote county as a whole is only about three thousand people, and the population of broad is as of the two thousand and ten census was just under a thousand.
So it's twenty minutes afterwards and to be clear that while it's understandable a law could happen in twenty minutes right, exactly yeah, so
kyle gets there
he's not alone right
He has his son with him and his wife at the time. That's great and he dare not they're not actually. The only vehicle that arrives law
for some of their lives. The sheriff deputy Brandon meal arrived at branded struck. At the same time as co author
So considering how far out they were, that's actually a pretty
the amount of time I would say for people to arrive and try to assist yeah humming considering were sitting were.
You know kyle and audrey had come from an annual, I'm not exactly sure where deputy neil was when he was despatched to the scene. So as far as is you know response time,
being good that couldn't I made I couldn't tell you, I mean you, you would reasonably thinks only I,
As I said, I don't know we're deputy news coming from. So if it was at the sheriff's office, which is in robert e Lee, it would have taken him about seventeen minutes from the time a dispatch to arriving at branch truck
ok, so to kind of make this easy for people understand its at twelve.
fifty in the morning when branding called my mom one, he spoke with the operator, the dispatcher, and yet I can play that call again for everyone here
In two thousand and thirteen zero,
day and thirty. Eight second level, an emergency.
I'm in the middle of europe. I prefer can guide our.
What about that again
they're. All border guard was required
no we're not wearing your heart,
Into uranium. Ok,
we are now on the call? Ok,
hello, hello, hello,
our whole gambling about god
We now call open
allow the and then it's after that at twelve fifty one?
kyle called Brandon left a voice mail again, you said out their spotty connection
you just never know. If you're going to reach someone on their phone, if they're in that area,
And make some calls kyle's wife calls Brandon
pause again. This is at one thousand two hundred and fifty to one thousand two hundred and fifty four kyle.
calling his brother twelve. Fifty seven branding called a neighbor. I know that accurate. I did try to call it a neighbour with the neighbour I dont think answered
and its possible, he was just calling and able to stay here. We go like what s up. I've got a problem, but I mean we'll. Never
We ask that you know what I mean their muscle,
have been answer because it will fifty eight brandons calling his brother a couple of times and while that's going on the neighbors actually trying to call Brandon yeah answer
fifty nine kyle's calling brandon adopt the dispatcher
who had taken the call earlier at twelve, fifty tries to call
back because she needs
and write? She doesn't reach him, so she leaves a voice mail and even try
starling, again yeah, it's everybody was drawn up cut up. They were all kind of and thought tat with each other.
you don't try to get a whole each trying to get a hold of the other between
one. Oh nine and one fifth,
there there a series of calls between Brandon and kyle dino.
Thing about these. Are there
there are some words exchange
maybe or is it just missed calls a good majority of it is missed calls there is one call that happened at one eighteen and that was brandon calling audrey called girlfriend and she picks up the phone and she have a brain and cock him, but the cell phone reception is so bad. All she can make out is I'm bleeding and the phone call gets cut out and so about a minute later, audrey texts, Brennan and says: hey. You know, there's there's a cop here at your truck
and that's the last communication from brandons phone receiving or sending out any gallop, calls or signals or anything. So you said they got there about one ten. I know you
possibly know this by knowing that
Brandon had been in contact with people are trying to be in contact with them via the phone. How far could he have gone
At this point there actually out by his vehicle, and yet by
nineteen or one twenty all the key
I was going to his found or going straight to voice malka that just be because his phones actually dead. At that point,
possible, it's possible that he will.
turned out a range of the cell phone tower, and so the vulgar communicate with the powers that range.
yeah. He had brought along that charter. That's why ask yeah
I think his phone didn't actually start. Nord stream was well thought out three in the morning, so if they were trying to call him after one, nineteen years is worrying in which sometimes I will happen. If you stop at a range of the tower, I can tell you win when he called man, one one. His phone was pinging near his truck. I don't think that's really something that the has really been put out there before butter when he was when he was talking to number one
spinning nearest truck at one hundred and nineteen when audrey text him his phone was pinging in an area that was slightly north of there by the colorado river, so he's clearly able to move a distance between one thousand two hundred and fifty a dot m.
And one nineteen nightingale is clearly moved somewhat north. It is both his pinging. It area north of his truck,
a tricky, because no one saw him right, not to my knowledge. So if he's pinging near them
truck where thereat and yet a short, not even
that much time later, he's north of their. How do you
I see that happening. Something would have had to have happened to cause him to. You know, leave the location of the truck then as possible when he ran out of gas. You know he stepped out of the truck and started walking a little bit. Maybe figured hey, you know I'll start walking. Kylo see me he'll pick me up off the road or clearly from this nine one. One call he's encountered something or someone that has put him in pretty good fear for his life.
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calm suggestion why code jen? Why has anyone
I had to see- and this will only work if the
I'll towers, an area haven't changed, but as anyone
check to see when that
switch. What happened between the towers when your
away from that area and movie north. That's one of the things I might do list for the next time I go down there. I think
might help shed some light on what possibly could have happened. They get to the truck, obviously
a not around they don't see him. I have heard that long,
psmith, never even process the truck, never check to see if there are any prints
how much investigation did they do on this truck well, but when they impounded it, I mean you know, they told it off the further road later on that morning,.
because they felt that it did pose a little bit of asia hazard traffic. Going by what the desert told me, she believed that they go through it like looking for drugs or something like that, because when they got it out the door panels or it can, I hang loose and she could
tell it it looked like somebody had been going through the truck, so she believes that the law that law enforcement did kind of go through it doing, like a cursory check, make sure there was no drugs or drug paraphernalia, which there's not being noted as any being found
they said that there was a depression under a tree.
If someone head,
down. There would have a view-
Brandon struck. I've heard that, but I think that was actually confirmed by a rumor
you did say there is a ping near the truck after one o clock. There is appearing at the truck what he called my one one.
fifty, but not letting you know what a ping later at one nineteen
he was an area north of they're up by the colorado river law enforcement checked out his truck, but probably just looking for drugs or anything,
of contraband, anything that they think might tell
them about what happened correct
yeah, I don't think they processed it for fingerprints or they didn't treat it as like a crime scene. Like you said, I thought they just went through it. Looking for illegal substances and stuff, like that, let's talk,
about the name when one call this nine name, one call ends up being pretty important to this case, because everyone who here
is it might hear something a little different and one thing
always believed is that since brandons from texas,
in a particular area of taxes.
he might have a particular accent that for people in other parts of the country might
difficult to understand, especially
the conditions that he was
running around in you. Ve heard it. I know I've read
comments from the data about what she thought when she listened to it. And one thing that's really clear to me is that some of the words that people had trouble for-
What was being said you
let s are able to understand those words, but
There are also things that are said that both of you aren't real sure
about, what's being said, correct at the start of the phone call and people of heard it again,
Brandon is responding to name one by saying: yes, I'm in the middle of the field, but then it sounds like
key starts to say something about for some guys over right again. Right here
towards abilene on both sides, my truck
Of gas there's one car here
We say it or I bet he says, got taken through the woods. Please hurry what
you may gratis I'm in the middle of a field. A something
just push some guys over out here going towards abilene on both sides. My truck ran out of gas. There's one car here, a guys chasing me through the woods. Please hurry, I'm sure you hear when he starts to say I got chased into the woods sound candidates out a little bit. I think when Brandon is talking to this nine one, one dispatcher, I don't think he's holding the phone up to his head. I think he's got it on speakerphone and you know how it is when, whenever you're talking to somebody on speakerphone, you hold the phone in front of your face. Well, I think while Brandon is talking to her,
is turning his head. So I'll put it on speaker phone right now and I'll say these words. At the same time, I turn my head and you might be able to kind of understand a little bit or you know he goes to say. There's one car here guys chasing me into the woods and I don't know if you could tell right there, but when I turned my head, the sound kind of faded out a little bit. I think that's what's happening here and that's why. That sounds like that, and I think this happened again
we gotta talk about how we get to it. It's understandable, because, if he's nervous, if he's afraid even
then he's looking around the absolute and if there is in fact somebody out there chasing him, you don't use running an he's, probably looking or how,
She where they are so no one wants clarification and
Then he says no we're not
No. I ran to them. He was speaking really fast, so he probably didn't catch everything. So she goes. Can you run that by me one more time and we're not talking to him
actually ran into him, says hi. He ran into him, okay and then he says either got or shot the first guy, edit fries to say something else, but I can't make it out because dispatcher starts to talk over him at that point that I think he's saying something about the second guy. But again I can't make it out
because she's already started to talk over him. What you know of brandon is there any chance
and say he had a gun with them when he drove towards his dad's place, not common knowledge. Now I don't even I'm not even sure if he owned one that probably a question le desert to be able to answer a little bit better than me and there's no reports of him having.
You know firearms item, but I don't know why wasn't able to find the information like that, and so when it's between
and shot. I wonder
There was some sort of confrontation. I wonder if he hit, somebody might punch them. You know that's possible. We know it's not in the center of vehicle because there was no damage to branded struck at all. When I took a look at that truck- and I couldn't find anything on it that suggested to me that it had been in any kind of collision now at that point- that that truck with a two thousand models, though it was two thousand and thirteen. So at that point vehicles, thirteen years old at it's normal, you know thirteen year old vehicles going to have some scratches and you know stuff from its lifespan, but there was no indication that it had been in any kind of collision whatsoever. So I don't think I mean clearly. You know you thought talking about hitting somebody with his car.
Could he have gotten physical with somebody, and you know him, but he doesn't actually use the word I hit. He says I accidentally ran into them. So I'm not without having more information about what happened, it's hard to say what he what he means. You know what I mean. True, it's just a brandon,
on the call sounds concerned, that's how I would describe as yet
concerned and a little labored as if he's while running yeah yeah he's
running probably in an area where the terrains not real friendly to him. No- and you know even Brandon's, dad pointed this out when you're out there at one o'clock in the morning is pitch black. You can't see your hand in front of your face. It's to be a little hard to just take off running out there. There's cactus rocks everywhere, you're going to trip at some point. So now there are parts of it that can clear out a little bit, but for the most part it's very rocky cactus rough terrain inclines and declines
if you're running out there it's to be hard and if you're chasing somebody, it's gotta be hard. The dispatcher ass, if he needs an ambulance and it almost
Like he says, yeah, no, I need the cops yeah. I think that's another instance were turning his head. There he's got his head turned this. She asked that yeah, I don't know,
it got. This is just the way I took it, but I list
to that end. I hear a guy who's ready to
respond positively to help right, of course, she's
asking if he needs an ambulance and he's
acting himself saying no, I need the cops yeah
the call causes last how much longer, because no one starts asking if anyone's hurt by
doran is not answering anymore yeah and she tries to think she said let to get him to talk by saying you know hello, hello, hello,
You just you never answer, I'm. I ask you one question about this: call that we didn't really go into by what about this or not
talking to him comment, because I've heard you say that your theory possible theory
To explain this strange call is that there could have been
I neer mess with some cars because his
I was kind of in the road he didn't. The arctic
correctly off the road because he ran out of gas by right.
If there is a near miss and perhaps some other vehicles,
wolden s, this could have turned into a rope
age incident as louis.
and that's something that happens all the time, absolutely
It does make some sense, and so, when he
as we are talking to him. If you go with that there
there, is that chance that maybe there's someone else who had gotten into confrontation with these people, but there
they managed to get away, but branded, didn't read people.
and so meda ii he still including up
already, even if they're, not there anymore, it's gregg. I'm not saying that's for sure what happen. I'm just saying that the possibility, with the things that you compare and coupled to what's that on the lower one call that would all seem to fit. You know what I mean. So I mean it's very possible that what happened- and you know that the treaties- we don't have enough information to note
sure exactly what happened, but as I said that the possibility that the stuff you haven't been, I want one call would fit
where we get into what I think are the two theories that are most likely where it let's talk.
bit about a theory that virtual
anyone whose now
Brandon shoots down pretty quickly, which is.
Brandon decided to leave his family and
start a new somewhere else. Well, I'm gonna do just like everybody else.
I find that highly likely. I do not believe for one single, solitary second, that man shows the leaders. Family is kids or one of the most important things in his life. He would not have purposely step away from his like knowing leaving his children died. He wouldn't do it. There's no evidence, in my opinion, to support the
theory of him leaving voluntarily. He leaves his truck. He doesn't touch any money in his bank accounts cell phone start operating. Basically, there's been no communication from him. There's been no credible, hiding of him not to mention I find
Are we bizarre that you would leave your life while attempting to call
basically everyone in your inner circle and calling nine
want to come help you, but that does not make any sense to me
while some might say he's providing his own cover that this is.
her story that that is an extremely well thought out cover that has never been seen before.
and I don't buy into it myself, because I don't think he would have called his dad and set that up-
There are things about us that once you really look into them like you said there were too many calls back and forth
He was trying to call, and all this went down,
literally in minutes, whatever
it happened in minutes it all
I guess might upset you and lead us
and others to hear that theory, because it sort of discounts
you know his value as a father. As you know, someone who is trying to provide for his family had gotten a new job,
starting soon right there,
how many things here at work that will have to be thrown out totally ignored for us too
reach the conclusion that he laughed on his own. Knowing
he wasn't going to come back right wheel,
I understand whenever you have a person, come up missing that that's almost always a theory that gets thrown out in every missing person case. I've seen that's almost immediately thrown out there as a possibility, but I mean once you start looking at the evidence and stuff like that, you can really start
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I'll, be something you probably want to talk about too much, but brandy
have some history with drug use.
Sir. I some have theorized dad
had recently had a lapse which you know that happens with people who have a history of drugs or alcohol abuse. They can have.
right it doesn't mean it's over their people that it takes them. Some time, but they fight through it, but he had
We had a recent lapse. The night before he left early for his dad's. He didn't come back home,
for whatever reason so there's
question of was it possible that he was using drugs again
then either hallucinated or
and he was just in a really bad area. You ve already
describe the area we didn't get to the temperature. Yet what was the temperature like? It's time? I don't have the exact temperature for that night, but august in texas is usually pretty hot and humid. So at night time here in august, the low for the night is anywhere from the upper 80s to mid to lower 90s.
You don't just depending on what the high was. So it would be extremely warm and probably very human thought basically
would have been hot would have been hot outside you can't run around in that you know forever, obviously, without something to drink, probably up it wouldn't have taken long,
the start to get the hydrate, it's a dangerous situation. You factor in the heat you factor in this.
situation has run out of gas?
in greece in an area where, if he starts going through
the woods as he would call it. You know through the rough terrain, it would be
pretty dangerous in the dark. Yes, the question would be
The search is that were conducted in they use cadaver dogs, they had searched teams and- and they didn't,
everywhere, but they searched
lot of land and they were never able to find anything of brandons right. I know when he first went missing. You know their law enforcement really focus their searches in
in the area where his truck was found- and I understand why they did that- I mean that's naturally, where you're going to go. You know when you find the truck you're, that you're going to use that, for your the basis of you know to start your search.
But it was a little later on after that, when the cell phone tapping information came out about his phone thing in a little bit north and by that time, that information come out. Large horsemen had basically already made up her mind. Anyone out there, and so do I really didn't take that informed.
russian and conducted a good search in that area like iq like they should have so
you know they went out there. Ah, on october, twenty fourth, two thousand and thirteen with the cadaver dogs and again in that search, they used the location of where the truck was found as the basis, and they searched
I dunno, like twenty five hundred acres, I'm like that, and they ended up searching ah extending the search area out just a little bit, because one of the dogs showed any interest in an area to the north east, and that is consistent with the cell phone ping information, but they ultimately didn't
stem the search area far enough, nor to include the area surrounding the colorado river. So it's quite possible that day just didn't go foreigner,
That's really the area where let s wants to get a good search, and I agree with her
in quite a while, since this actually went down six years. What has been said
hold up with this searches. It I mean, because I got a feeling.
Stressing the sheriff that he's really
all about people's private property and that
we're not going to permit any by just to go where they want to go just because they want answers so
I rise to a situation where it's taken. Time too,
be negotiate with people, their own property, to be illegal,
their search? It's. Basically, as you guys stated in your podcast, I listen to it again earlier
the landowners? Won't. Let anybody out there without an ok from the share and the share of fish.
I don't want anybody out there and I don't know if it's because
afraid of a liability issue or what the deal is, but he is pretty adamant that nobody step out there, but him and his people. Ah I don't like I said I don't know if it and you know la dessa has offered him a liability waivers and he
you still won't go for it and he tells a family to be harassed and the landowners will be calling the landowners, and so it's it's it's. Basically, the families had a brick wall and their hands are tied. I mean you can't if you step across that fence, you're trespassing, so I mean you, what can you do? You know him? He
its troubling information? That's how I feel about it. If you had a family that even saying well check with the sheriff,
you're saying well now you can't just go stop at around people's private property.
A man- may be dead out there. Adequate and people want aunt
where's the family wants answers like death needs answers. His children need these answers.
and so absolutely I get the frustration yeah- and you know this is mister. Mc cutchen doesn't want to, but your random people
we're out there running around. I can understand that, but it's like I tell people we're not talking about a frisbee going over a fence or a football getting kicked into somebody else's yard. This is a human being that we're talking about trying to fight. So I think he should at least let the family and a handful of people close to the family out there.
search. Now when he says that the terrain is dangerous, he's not lying, I mean we all know that, but I don't feel that it's impossible to search it. Now you are going to have to be careful, but I I think you could lead a group of people out there to search. Absolutely. I don't think, that's unreal.
the family had brought in a private investigator. Did they not regard Sweden too, and I can go ahead and mention them because they ve been named before the first one
heard her name was miss Brenda Paradise and then the current one is miss Paul about row and I've spoken to miss, bowed roche's, real sweet. Lady and she blew It- wants to try to help
the desert, get some answers, but she's got like everybody else. You know you can't stop put on the property there's only from what you could do.
I know that shares can be.
decisions, but what they
change their mind if experts and professionals were brought in like aqua search.
you know I think a couple of those groups have volunteered come out there and I think he's told them now.
See that's. Another thing is this case has reached a
level of notoriety,
where I'm sure there are plenty of people that know what they're doing who would be happy to dry
their time, if need be,
It may not matter in the end
It's really the sheriff who's got it
hands on this thing,
if he's narrow window but ago then disk
maybe stuck exactly that's true, and you know that's kind of why this cases is like. It is because I mean, if you can't get out there to search
you know you're stuck, I want to go over a few more no
that I have, there is an article
I'll go saint angelo by Christa johnson right and in
article she mentions that kyle head.
Heard his brother say that it was
Secondly, in the neighborhood who, after and right
question is where there are some guys that maybe he knew tat. He thought were after him
or are you not even sure about the legitimacy of that statement? Ah, I am not one hundred percent sure about the legitimacy of that it could be true. I haven't had the chance to speak with kyle, yet to give validity on it. So I could it be true yeah. Could it be not true, yeah
and I'm just simply saying I have not been able to confirm it would kill you if it is not a moment to get that opportunity. If, if it is true, it was
Had that kyle's response was: are you on drugs
are you hallucinating all his exact words are now. Are you tricked me? Are you tripping yeah,
yeah, so that there are definitely does it really
It- doesn't have a yacht drugs yeah made up your body called jump right outside europe.
I got to go on and on and on about? You know you might go. Did you or your day, japan, lily
it's a real right now. Are you crazy love, yeah yeah exactly, but what
It does tell me, though, even if
is just. Are you crazy what he said
talking about is he doesn't feel
Brandon is making sense at that point yeah well, and you know it could be that you know, like I said: if your buddy calls you up and says it was like dude were you talking about? Why would
be happening to you. You know it's very simple. You know them india, so I did
If anybody had looked into that that something that I would suggest asking kyle I reach out to Christa Johnson and she was very,
coming with me and
that she got her information by talking to teledesic and kyle for the article right right? Am I considered it give? It could very well be true. I personally have not been able to confirm it yet.
Another thing. Is it strikes me that if that is a part of the call- and he had told his brother
It was mexicans in the neighborhood, it's just weird that later he's talking as if he doesn't know these people
Gee, I'm saying you like the way you are you are you yet. It seems
disconnected. So that's why
I could under anyway you would say I'm not sure,
to ask him about that because it doesn't fit right with the stuff happens later, and then I will one call here
But I would also say that sometimes, when people are in
moments of stress, sometimes they place familiar.
Things over that stuff. So.
They can understand it. You know I mean it.
it's like her dalia. Sometimes we see shapes in the clouds.
People have been known to do this. Yeah edited it very well could be. I mean, like I said it until I get a chance to really speak with kyle and cannot confirm or deny this I mean I I I can't really
speak watch to it. You know what I mean so from an organizational standpoint. I know that
the data and the family tried very hard to get answers.
But where is everything at now
in terms of let's say people are listening to this and they want to do something. How can they help? Is there anything they can do? The best thing I can really tell people to do right now is to just keep keep sharing the story, or you know, keep her email investigation discovery
we email, the oxygen network. You know nancy grace, John Walsh, any kind of media just anything they can really do to to help kind of keep brandon's case. In the light you know, I personally select the more people that are looking into this case and know about this case. The more potential was therefore somebody or something being able to convince the sheriff to
you know our search yeah, it's gonna be a tough position for people that their
its are hurting literally from branda being missing, and they know that
a person could make a difference and yet
a person's not doing anything so
part of them. I'm sure that may be
yourself, might be pretty angry, but on the other hand, that doesnt solve anything because
at some bright you're hoping the sheriff will have a change of heart. That's the you know that really the best thing we can hope for right now and you know that their organization, the cole county, sheriff's organization, is a small organization. They only have about six officers, and so I mean it didn't budget or resource issue. On his end I mean I can I can understand that. But at the same time, if that's the issue, that's when it's time to allow one of these outside organizations who are
Perfectly willing to donate their time to come in, you know what I mean, and is there any possibility that this sheriff could be replaced at some point? Well, I mean, if I understand, texas politics correctly, he's the he's elected, so I mean yeah, but at some point the public
She's to elect another share and if there and I'm really sure when their elections are but yeah,
and if that happened there would be renewed hope. Possibly possibly- and you know I've tried to reach out to to Mr Mccutchen. He did not return any of my calls or respond.
to me, and you know I'm just a private citizen, so he's not in any way obligated to speak. To me, brother and I tried to reach out to You-
deputy, Neil I've had several of my people that helped me reach out to him, and he basically says the case is dead and I don't want to talk about it anymore and hangs up the phone. So I mean it. It's really frustrating.
Saying to not have any kind of cooperation from law enforcement.
I think you're spot on about saying that,
exposure this case has the better the chances, because
seeing other cases actually come,
to a close after everyone,
and about the case and more more pressure was put on people to do something about it. So I think that's actually a great a great step, and I do
no, that we continue to get all it seems
it's almost monthly. We get emails coming in about Brandon lawson and I know
and talking with you, it seemed like there is some concern that people might judge him because
of his drug use or that he had gotten into a fight and seem like?
we'll stormed out of the house, but I mean he's a purse
a human being just like anybody else in none of us are perfect, but all of us have had moments are alive where, if you caught us,
at one time, and then we went missing.
you know that was under a microscope. We would have peep,
watching us too bright right. You had said
There is misinformation out there and I didn't get the sense that you felt like anything was on purpose. But you know
as we are missing persons case. There's a lot of speculation, and sometimes speculation and rumour becomes fact gets right.
Or at least that's how people see it yeah? I know one thing that really is brought up is: could the nigh one one cobby edited altered, or you know
we're not getting the full version of the nine one one call I have a partner who helps me out with this case that I could actually talk about this person now that the it's ok to, ah I'm sure, you're
million with the more murray case have you heard of a lady named aaron larkin ensnaring about ash
Yeah she's done a lot of work for the Moore murray case. She even has her own podcast, one of seven degrees, she's been on till and lance's podcast a couple of times really smart, lady really good at getting facts and stuff like that, you know done and getting freed of a minute information act, request,
filled and stuff like that. She contacted me about a year ago and told me you know hey, I really color wanna start looking in the branded case global. Can you help me out.
and so her and I have been collaborating a lot over the past year. She's already been able to do some some good stuff for brain in case. I can't talk about all of it right now, but
were very excited to have her aboard looker up, I mean you'll soon, I'm tired when she's my lady.
And so were she actually put any freedom of information act, request to weigh MC cutchen himself for the night one would call in its entirety. He said ass, the exact same thing that all over youtube so
Since then. I would call the parties concerned in fairness to him. I wouldn't doubt it
look at audio all the time and.
And tell you is, if you were in an area where the connection is
his body, what you think
european at edit is actually just well what you're getting from the call because they contain
that's right. You're right, I don't think people are really brought that into account.
are taken into account here either.
the misconceptions out there about brandon,
this relationship with his girlfriend or his family. I guess it out that can be a little bit more specific
I remember you saying that there are things that people have said that just aren't true or people the wrong idea
certain things I didn't know a special case like this
people might misread things, you mean you know, there's your basic staff. There's people to think with deserts. Somehow involved brandons disappeared switches to complete nonsense, there's people to think kyle's guilty as some of them in some way, which is again complete nonsense. Neither one of those who deserve to be tried in the court of public opinion and out of sight
people do it to them, and it's just it's just not right. It's not fair, and you see that a lot in missing persons cases where the family or the person to laugh associate with the you know victim is you know you get people with a pitchfork mentality. As I say you know,
I don't know there was a little bit of a rumor
really day was something the share of thought initially, maybe with a brand and ran off with another girl that complete crab, he doesn't fit with the calls now blow adele
and I would go as far as to say whether he was not in his right mind or whether he was
chased, I doubt brandons an actor
he sounds legitimate whatever he sang he, but
if at any time exactly
and so there's no set up here for him to just
appear or some other woman right right. You wouldn't have left behind every resource. You know what I mean
I'm sure you ve heard the you know the rumour of his a one k how he thought about
asking it out, and people like the pointed out at the sight of him, you are trying to leave, is
yeah. I looked into that. He didn't even get the money. I mean
He came into account that it was never withdrawn. This is
the gas on my part, but did he actually close out his
one key because he was changing jobs. Yes, you are,
it's a role the he wanted to combine the four o one k with the old job cause the four o one k with the new job. You know like a like a ira kind of thing to where you can keep building and that's the only reason he was looking.
You to take it out. It never made sense yeah. He just wanted to continue on the benefit and that the total amount he would have gotten from doing that was really kind of insignificant. I think the total amount of the stuff that he accrued was only like you know. Maybe it was less than a thousand dollars it might have been around like seven hundred, but I mean after you pay the
You know they're going to take out the penalty for you, cash in that I'm going to take out taxes, so he might have walked away with what four hundred bucks that he was lucky. I mean
that really money to start a new life here, and I can, I can tell you he left more money in his checking account than what their four o one K would have been worth so nearing strike that down pretty quick or one other thing. I've seen people doubt is the nine one one call from a trucker. They think just because that phone call has is not
our public means that it doesn't exist or something I can tell you that I will call from the charter. Does one hundred percent emphatically exist?
and this is the call that he may because he felt that this truck was sort of in the road.
Now the one on the road, but it presented a danger emmy, as we know, as
driving along, especially at night people might drift a little bit and that truck would be in there
at some point for somebody right back
said it exists. Have you heard I urge you know anyone who has heard it? That's the poor
a girl. I gotta say I can't talk about it. That's totally! Fine!
it's enough for you to say that you know it exists? I think that's plenty of information. What do you want people to know as they go forward
Would you want people to know more
information about brandons pay his way his appearance or do you think that's niven,
Port and at this point that people should just continue to spread the word about this disappearance so that more and more
people learn about it and more and more people care about it will be important. I mean you know it's. It's always good to have the basic information about the person you know height weight. That kind of thing that's always important to have. Is it one hundred percent you know necessary to to share the story and keep it alive know, but I think they're both important. You know what I mean and the you know just never never give up in you know, one person can make a difference and that's part of the reason you know that's one of the reasons I'm doing this is because I firmly believe that one person can make a difference. You know you can make a difference in other people's lives or bring the family hope. You know, I think that's one of the greatest just one human being can give to another is hope. You know help keep the
I firmly believe, one hundred percent that Brandon can and will be found if you know it, and fortunately it will take time. But you know I have a. I have a vision where one day that cross that sits there on highway, two hundred and seventy seven to south of broad
One day it will say missing: auditing more solar omelette continue to do whatever I can to make that vision
and this cross your speaking of this red and white metal cross. That's where his truck had stopped that night right.
Brandon was described as five point nine
and thirty pounds. He was a
six years old,
He went missing from brought Texas that correct right here,
pretty stocky guy, he had multiple tattoos
when he went missing. He was wearing a yellow shirt with camel shorts and he was wearing-
max brand shoes and friends,
one who has any tips or
the other information they think is important. Who would you
I say they should contact the man lincoln contract. You know the texas department of public safety, they can call crimestoppers, they can message to help find Brandon lawson facebook page or they can contact the private investigator. Mr Paul Abell drow don't have her number right here in front of me, but I'm sure I can get it to you that they can call the cole county sheriff department and speak to a mccutchen if you're not comfortable. With any of that message me, I will gladly pass the information along there's lots of avenues to
that across and your family will be appreciative of any credible tips to come in. I firmly believe that somebody out there does know something and if they can come forward, then you can. You can make a heck of a difference here. You can. You can end this for this family potential and get
loved one back home in? Is there one website that may we could give out where
book it start there? Is it missing, Brandon lawson? Ah you didn't. You can go to that website. You good facebook, dot com, slash, help, fine bread, a lawsuit, there's a we'll watch in there to message the administrators of that faced.
Page would like to thank you for joining me tonight to talk about brand lawson so often
we'll cover a missing person case and we don't
You get to speak with someone who is this
I said and finally
that person, you know someone that knew the person. Sometimes we do. It
said difference because then
It's a learn more about the person that that is new.
longer with us, or at least no one
was whether at so putting up her
reality to them. Also hearing the passionate
voice, I think, is important, more people
good to know Brandon lawson and learn about his disappearance, man. I thank you for taking the time to chat with me anytime. I can do anything to to get Brandon's case out there and
be a voice for him. I am always very pursue that none of the family is to thank you so much
and I really do hope that answers come it sucks that
You know someone has a bad night and then it gets worse. This will extra man. I appreciate craig in the car to talk to me. I told the family at the five year vigil that as long as they will have me and as long as you're, okay with it, I will continue to help be a voice for brandon until he is brought home
I have to I'm not going anywhere, so you know I'm gonna, I'm gonna hang in there and help or help the family continue the fight from the heart man. You know it really is. Like I said man I had
make their vision. I had a reality. Brad Larsson once said in an interview,
It always. Someone would just show me where my son is I'd, get him in bringing home and our bread to have that
I want those children now that I want more desolate, have that they deserve it.
We want someone to do that for us if we went missing absolutely. Thank you so much for talking to me now. Thank you refer super often
in nineteen, sixty nine, a vicious and seemingly random killing spree, in LOS angeles, shocked the nation and when the king,
we're finally caught. The nation was even more shocked by who was behind the gruesome crimes. I'm lindsey grant the host of wonders, podcast american history tellers. We take you to the events times and people that shaped america and americans. Our values
are struggles and our dreams. In our late, a series of fail, musician turned cold leader named Charles Manson, turns his young hippy followers into blood, thirsty killers and exposes the dark side of the peace and love generation met
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Transcript generated on 2022-07-09.