This episode is brought to you by peacock bridge did the original limited series. A friend of the family based on story of the Jan roper, kidnappings from nickel, oscar executive producer of the act and candy and after producer eliza hip and comes a dark. Compelling look at the harrowing story through new lands produce which amber burke herself the series stars Anna pack when jake lacy college hanks LEO Tipton and mckenna grace stream. Now, oh

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What are you doing here? Yes, then, how are you I'm doing? Get we get some shouts tonight? Oh yeah. We got a couple shut out too Lee beat and family in the uk. Nice and special shut out to Randy were proud of you, as usual, subscribe to the podcast check out our patriotic all that jazz What are we talking about tonight? Erin tonight will be discussing the case of cody posey and

murders of his father, stepmother and his sister. When and where did this happen? Well summary of it would be in to them and four at the shop canyon ranch, which was owned by sam Donaldson, the famous newscast her I was referring to the same donelson ranch, but what our them difference codes, father Paul four, sam donaldson and cody on the ranch as well july. Fifth, two thousand for in hondo mexico coty is working with his father at the ranch cody will trees, a thirty eight caliber hand gun from a saddle, AG owned by his stepsister, and he will shoot his stepmother twice and then wait for it. Father to arrive and shoot him in the head.

and then he will shoot his stepsister twice. All three are killed. Eight sneaks up behind his stepmother and shoots her in the back of it. And yeah, while, while she's reading a book sneaks up on her and does this and then the father and step sister run into the house to see what the commotion is and that's when he cody will use a back, Oh and bury his three family members under manure sech a big maneuver pile where they pull all the stuff from all the animals. It's pretty grows on July. Sixth, two thousand for same donaldson will arrive at the z residence on his ranch. He will notice There is blood on the floor and blood swap it's. Where smears he will turn right around and he will call the sheriffs they find the body,

of his family, but there's no sign of cody They are wondering if somebody has broken into the house if this is a home invasion and their worried about coty their worried, that he was wiped out too. He might not know. What's happened to his family, so a search commences for the sun and pay end up finding. It won't take long for them to track down cody, who is hanging out with a couple of friends its July fourth weakened with them. In about an hour of questioning code, will reveal that he did in fact murder. His father

his stepmother and his step sister. Now, when they first question cody, he says he doesn't know where his family is. He says that he hasn't seen them or talk to them. He does talk about an incident that happened the night before, where his father slapped him but says he hasn't spoken to his father after that, but it's only an hour into the interrogation that he pretty much confesses and tells them everything and gives them very a matter of fact cold blooded details of what he did to his family. While he's telling the story of murdering his family one by one, he mixes in his feelings towards his father and his family, and he talks about how his father was very abusive and

we're bearing towards him. He talks about physical abuse, emotional abuse, verbal abuse, the police start to get a pitcher of of a motive. He hated his father, he hated his family, he wanted them to die, but he wasn't that forthcoming, at the beginning, because they found a broken window. They couldn't find him. They confined the truck. It appeared to be staged as a home invasion, but they find out pretty quick that that was code he's doing in he's pretty up front with it. But as these abuse allegations start unfolding. They are starting to realise that this wasn't just a father that instituted corporal punishment up. Very often, this might go beyond the typical,

slap, a kid around ground him make him do extra chores. This turns a little dark will at some point during the interview The male officer will walk out and I'm not sure prompt said, but he starts to talk to the female off. Those left in the room with him tell us A very disturbing story. It's possible that he just felt more open to a female and didn't want to say something in front of the male is what I gather from that. According to cody, his father asked him to go to his parents bedroom and when he got in there his father. Had a torch, butane, torch Yeah and he had a metal rod, branding iron and he told coty that he was to have sex with his stepmother and quota of course refused but then

while he's refusing the torch was Setting up the ride red hot branding iron in his hand, and then his father applied it to him, he told them again you'd be having sex with the stepmother. She had pulled the hovers down and she was naked and then she came down towards the foot of the bed and pulled coteries head towards her chest. He refused again and this time he actually bit her his father, got him with the branding iron again with the metal rod. The police would photograph welts and burns on cooties body mainly around his shoulders and his arms. So his story seems to have some go evidence backing it up. The investor gears will go through the house and search for evidence in one of the things they find is his father's computer Paul's computer, and it. Just so happens to have some very

strange, strange internet searches and pictures and other things on it that indicate a straw interest in incest, particularly incest involving a daughter so again, more evidence of what coteries motive was that was being abused, but what are the police to do with a fourteen year old, brutally, wiped out his entire family and confessed to it? no question here has absolutely no mystery to this everything matches up with his statements. This pretty clear, cut case of cold blooded murder. How did he and up living with his foot further and this situation or right since we said that he had murders. Other stepmother and stepsister. Obviously, his mother was not in the picture. Codes. Past is pretty dark as well. His Father and mother divorced, not long after that, These mom would join the navy,

This was in nineteen. Ninety four coty went to live with father and his second wife whose name was sandra. This was when he was, years old codes. mother was gone for about four years, but she replied I heard from the navy and returned cody's other paul just sense, cody back to his mother. three months later, though codes his mom karla and his step. Dad drive, washington, but on the way they are involved in accident and the car roles Cody's mother will be critically injured. In fact, when he is taken to the hospital He is asking about his mom at this point, he's aged ten, but he wants his mother. He doesn't know where she sat in his worry that she's dead and keep saying pay she'll make. It should be ok Another working honor but later

in the evening, they will come back to him with the news that they couldn't save his mother, that she is dead now we step dad. He tells them hey. It's gonna, be ok, I'll! Look after you, I'm here for you, but there is a problem and that's that the court will inform this bad that he has no legal claim to be the guardian of cody posey, which surprised me, because after the divorce between his mother and his father, father lost all parenting rights. and his mother got full custody. Normally there is shared custody, joint custody and I wondered, why did his father lose all custody rights? yeah. That's where we. I said that there was a dark passed here now say draw his father. second, wife, loved cody. And she loved him like he was her.

son, but there were some incidents that concerned her as well. fact. At age, seven coty was beaten with a board by his father. Pictures were taken and it was reported to the police, but there were no charges, so nothing came of that yeah. I think if you have documented proof that he's abusive down We'll get you you're parental rights taken away. That's not the only incident but unfortunately, sandra trying to help reports, the abuse is happening to her her step son to family services. Well, nothing really comes of that either accept all posey decides he's going to get rid of sandra and he does just he divorces. Her says she's kind about the picture cody was nine, Father will marry try on who is ten years older than his father after his mouth.

Dies in this car wreck, his steps or who has been taking care of him and raising m, is going to lose custody of cody and he's going to go back to his abuse. The father yeah. They say when his step bother has to tell him that he is not to be around anymore cody is devastated, he is so scared and he is crying see it's like a traumatic moment for him. He knows what his father is going to do to them. I don't care how young he is. He knows there's something wrong with that guy, but he's got to go back and live with and he has no choice in this matter. In two thousand one, his father will be hired to work at the shop as canyon ranch for sam donaldson answer the family moves there, everyone,

if the family has to pull their own weight, especially cody. Who is the only son he is expected to do most of the work around the farm, whether it be cleaning out the the stables, a lot of the crap work quote unquote and if he doesn't do a good job he says, he's disciplined if he doesn't get up and at before dawn in the morning he's going to be disciplined. He goes on to say that his step sister is encouraged to tattle on him if he screwing up or not doing his or his chores coty will stand trial in two thousand six. This is a pretty high profile case. You don't get too many children that wipe out their entire families. There is quite a few news reports out there that you can watch but, as it starts, you start to see a lot of

Emily pulling for cody, which a lot of people do not understand. A lot of people never understand how somebody's family members could support this kid. Who is a cold, blooded murder and he is a cold blooded murder. I am not even it a try. sugar coated. Even the father of merrily the thirteen year old stepsister, who was gunned down, will come to codes defence. Who else comes to us the fence he has family members and uncles. And is also a ranch hand whose the father of his friends, his name's eli, sell cedar, in fact, after the murders this right chance, sons, other ones that cody was hanging out with all of them back up cody statements of how he was treated by his father. They give details and stories about how they witten

MR cody getting beat. They even describe a hay hook, which looks like a meat hook to me, but it's not sharp and he said that his father would use this hay hook and smack cody in the hands with it. It looks like it would break his hands, but apparently his father's pulling his punches a little. Because he knows that his son has to continue working for him. Yes, on the other allegations were that he was overworked not given, quit food and water. He was slapped her punched. He was whip with a rope he's also hit with an electric cattle prod. He was woken up with the cattle. Prod is what I heard if he didn't get up on his own. That's how he was what a way to start your day. There is also at least one incident where

but he was told that he had to fill a one hundred gallon trough with a cop. He had to go and fill the cup of water and then walk it over to the trough, pour it in, and they just repeat that over the course of an entire day and now is obviously as punishment for some indiscretion, that quota done and then, of course you have the allegation that cody made about the torch. and the branding iron being told that he was You have to have sex with a stepmother, but it's not all in cody favour at the trial. The prosecutors gonna go to town hear. Her name is sandra gresham and He was laying out that this was definitely a planned cold, blooded, murder, plot and that code. He ambushed all this family members and then bear

them under manure and then took the truck. They belong to his father, went and bought a sprite. He also did, the gun in a river and then and hung out with his friends in eight food and play basketball, and he was very happy in fact that was Now more witness testimony that code, you seem to be here beer than ever. I actually cannot disagree with anything she sat at all. He did planet, he did do it and he did take a truck and was happy Paul, posies, second wife Sandra testified that Otis father was abusive and they didn't like his son, and she described the incident with the board the other incident she described was the hundred gallon water trough that he had filled with a cup Witnesses said that code. You seem very withdrawn around his dad in his step, mom other witnesses, were describing how they witness

things here and there like a hit or a slap, but There was never any concern on their part to report it, and they were asked about this, and it seemed like the same answer: kept coming up. Maybe they just thought it was an isolated incident where perhaps coding just on his nerves that day and he decided to, can I get a little slap or something they? Never even considered that there is long term abuse here, the ends with them were saying. If I had known all of what was going on, I would have reported it. I mean I know that a lot of these witnesses are from a older generation where spanking and smack in your kid around was commonplace. Now, it's not as commonplace in early two thousands

wait. Two thousands, but they're probably used to seeing that, and they didn't think too much of it, but they didn't know how far it was going and in the dark sexual nature and undertones that were happening behind, close doors. Yan Paul's brother berlin spoke this and said that his brother isn't abusive. He said his own father wasn't abusive. He said they were just tough men. That's just how you raise a kid again sandra regression throughout the trial. Is saying: forget about the age. You need to look at what he did. He murmured three people and then he acted like Having the time of his life and he tried to cover up his crimes, he staged a break in to make look like someone had gone in there and done this he broke. a window at the ranch. Yet he had shown premeditation. He had

on that. He tried to cover the murderer according to law doctrine, if you deliberate at all before pulling a trigger trigger that goes from to be murder to first degree. If you have to think about it, then you ve decided to do it, but coty goes one step further than that. he sneaks up behind his stepmother and then he tries to cover the murderer after the fact. I can't disagree with what the prosecutor sang but she seems to be forgetting that we're talking about a fourteen year old child. While she also brings up the fact that code you didn't have to murder anyone that he we have taken his abuse allegations to the authorities and she brings up how cody did talk to someone and got in officers phone number, but thank

odious somehow loses the number. Oh, so it's cooties fall and its quotas fault that he was hit with a board and that was reported in nothing happened, either way to blame the victim. But you know what The darkest testimonies that came out during the trial was a former neighbour of Paul. Posey testified that he witnessed Paul shaking His son- and this was when his son was very young. You can I Imagine that if the abuse allegations are true which at this point the the way you dont think their true, as if one you dont want to side with the murderer and want to ignore all of the isle of this other. Testimony. Or perhaps you think that this has to be the perfect by for someone who is trying to get away with with three murders, yeah- and I could totally by in that this is the perfect

alibi or motive or forgiven. Perfect reason to be forgiven for doing this, but the number of witnesses on coty side who are backing up the abuse allegations far out number the ones on the prosecution side. The brother and sister. You others that never sought or are saying they didn't see it because their loved ones have been murdered and they're not going to give this cold blooded. Or any out of sympathy or help with the new season comes new savings. This our mattress prices, are falling like leaves during our fall sail. For a limited time. two six hundred dollars off your dream, mattress with a perfect blend of cooling and comfort for better sleep,

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murder for the slaying of his thirteen year old stepsister. They find him guilty of second degree murder for the slaying of his stepmother and they find him the of voluntary manslaughter for his father, which blows my mind, because this whole thing was predetermine plan to murder his father, so I'm assuming the jury felt that he was finding himself or something, but they felt that he needed a lesser charge for the murder of his father. Whereas I just look at the facts of his father was the intended target. I think his father should have. He should have been found guilty

first to be murder for his father and then, if you wanted to give second degree or manslaughter charges for his stepmom and stepsister, I could buy that. But I I think it's weird that voluntary manslaughter for his father was chosen, but I guess it's, this weird sympathy charge for the abuse and another mitigating fat.

Is right. Mitigating factors is right and, according to the jury members some of them, they really had a problem with all this abuse that Kodi suffered over the years. I think they tried to give him some sympathy by lessening the charge when it came to the killing of the father. I I guess he walked up behind his stepmother and shot her and killed her. I think that's first degree and then his father and his step sister came in and he gunned them down. Father was the intended target. I would personally have given him first degree, murder for his stepmother, his father and then I might have given him second degree or manslaughter for his step sister, but that's just based on the very technical aspect of how this went down and has zero to do with the abuse or anything else is going on. I think the way the jury was looking at it was. He killed his

Sister was only thirteen years old, that's pretty brutal, and so That's where they said hey. We really can't find any justification for this. I agree there. You cannot justify shooting a thirteen year old in any stretch of the imagination at all, but I felt that she was collateral damage. She was there and she was going to die two, but the intended target ones was his father and that's not trying to say that what he did was right. Don't hope nobody takes that out of context but If she wasn't around or she was outside, I don't think he would have killed all of them, but maybe I'm wrong cody. Splain his actions as his stepmother would have called nine one one and is still sister would have told on him as well, so they all had to go right back

He really was adamant that his father needed a die. The world would be better without him he's found guilty, but we have to get to the sentencing and the judge here. Has to consider all of the things from both the defence and the prosecution has two way all these things out and he has to decide whether or not to charge him as an adult or juvenile. This is probably one of the toughest us Hence this judge has ever made before the judge renders its decision on the sentencing. The process sandra gresham will tell the judge shall say: I'm asking the court to protect society from him as long as you possibly can. She was asking for life

in prison his defence attorney Gary Mitchell urged rehabilitation for cody, saying that he believed he would not be at risk to kill again that he was best driven to this by all the abuse and now it's over that they need to give him ants to be rehabilitated and to rejoin society. Judge James wailing counts made the statement, the court orders that the child be committed to the custody of children, youth and family department until age, twenty one and not be moved to an adult facility after such date, so he was charges a juvenile and is going to serve and tell aged twenty one It's really interesting that jury members, seven of them, sent no to the judge, basically

saying, please don't send him to an adult prison. We found him guilty or first agrees second degree and manslaughter, but do not charge him as an adult again Its staggering to me how many people came to defend cody, like I said he is a cold blooded murderer, but. other is all these people defending a more not even defending I'm just speaking up for him speaking up for the abuse. Not justifying murder but giving him a a pass in a sense of he was troubled kid, and this was a moment in his life that he can never take back. Also

I feel that he wasn't a threat to society or any one else, because well, these were the people that were bringing stress and harm to him and they're gone now. Is he a cold, blooded murder? That's gonna go on to kill well the prosecution and other people absolutely believe that he is a site path in a cold, blooded murder, and he will kill again cody. Also spoke and stated that he would never kill again, but any cold. Blooded murder would say that again of coty was released at age twenty one while he was at the juvenile centre he did obtain in his high school, equivalent degree ged, and and pleaded nearly two years of college credits, but it wasn't all happy times and juvenile potential

no, it said that he had gotten in a number of fights. There was trouble, but I get the sense that over time here, was working on bettering himself so when he first gets there. This is a a kid: that's just killed his entire family gone through a whole court process now is sent to a juvenile detention center. It's going to be a little bit of a culture shock little bit of a feeling out period. I could see him having some trouble there, but he eventually gets it together and he gets his ged and he gets college credits at age, twenty one, that's what most kids that are on the right track are gonna accomplish its a good sign anyway, doesn't mean is cared for anything, but it's at least something Now some of you may look on the internet and say: oh well, what's cody up to

there is another coty posey out there who went to court for two deaths involved in an accident and auto accident. This is not the cody posey that killed his family. I would say just look at their cheers near the most stunning information that I think came out of the entire process. Here in this came out after the trial was that when cody was five years old, his grandmother as on his father's side. So his father's mother shot her husband. While the sleeping and then shot herself and pulse father was to be a very abusive person? He beat his wife, he hid his kids. and Paul even told his second wife about this. He said that his father

at one point. Pushed his wife out of a moving car, so this is cody's grandfather. pushed his wife out of a moving car there's a whole all history of abuse. Their talked about overlean Paul's brother head basically defended his deceased brother and said no. He's, not abusive? My dad's not abusive, they're, just tough men, but I think to most of the public. the stuff that was going on, not acceptable and should not be tolerated the sad that we have both cody and his grandmother committing murder because of abuse, and that's what we're looking at here. That's the motive. It's a cycle of abuse and for his brother, This think that pushing somebody out of a moving cars- just tough love beating

Children and burning them with irons and rods is acceptable. Discipline. Okay, I I will say that I don't have a strong opinion on what happened to cody if they would have kept him longer. I probably wouldn't have carried a torch for him, but I don't think that he got a slap on the wrist either. I think he was punished and power. The court decided is what they decide Did a lot of internet comments and things out there will echo the same statements made by the prosecution which he

is a cold blooded murderer and he will murder again. He was released in two thousand and ten. It is now twenty seventeen and, unlike george Zimmerman and some other people, we haven't heard a peep out of cody posey right. People would say that you have to you have to wait. Has he could strike again at some point we talked about vermin, Paul's brother, and he was adamant that there wasn't abuse, but I would venture to say, that he may not have known about it. For Virgil and seeing his brother hit cody in the back or something whither with a row, bore whatever he might have seen that may not have constituted abuse to him and he may not have seen some of the extreme stuff, so he does have the information, but he trusted his brother. He believed in his brother and having his brother murdered, the

doesn't allow for him to think about what might have been it just equals. My there was murdered and someone has to pay for it. Why not the person I did it? I mean cody pulled the trigger of this thirty eight caliber hand gun and killed three people. I don't think I can really forgive cody for killing a sip stepsister that something that's just. I can't come back from that with all the things going on with his father and a stepmother who is allowing it not that anyone deserves to die, but I can understand at least why cody felt the way he did The people who are listening to this, your fall into one of two camps. sure one side will say he was a minor. He suffered long term abuse. You can't really hold him completely accountable for what happened because he was driven to it.

and yeah it's tough to justify the murder of his step sister, but Oh he's, a minor he's not able to make rash. All reasonable decisions time. We know this act, there are seventeen and eighteen urals. They can't do it either, but on the and young people who say yeah he committed murder. He needs to serve time. You do the crime, you serve the time. There's cries for his execution, but he should it has been put to death as always We want to kill children in this country, and I dont know what would change anyone's mind on this. I think, once you ve made your mind up, I'm what you think should have happened. I think it's tough to change your mind because again you're looking at it as an abuse, person, who's a minor or your look? as someone who plotted these murders carried them out and try to cover them up, and I feel that people lose track of what abuse does what torturing a child

can do, and even in the wake of this trial and an incident there's a lawsuit filed against sony play station and the ranchman alleging that people on the ranch did not report the abuse Also that sony made a game called grand theft, auto vice city, that drove cody to murder, his family and then steal the truck again were not looking at the mode over the reasons why this happened. We're trying to play the blame game and never take account ability for our own actions or what we do. What happens, but this is they throw the lawsuit out. They appeal it and now appeal gets rejected, which it should be

if they would have won, I probably would have suit the makers of pack man for my over eating. I might have sued pitfall for getting bitten by snake when I was a kid because, what's the difference, that's that's my generation, so we we covered other young killers before we covered Mary bell, Who was eleven when she murdered. If your pay transporter, you're gonna, hear her slender man many sewed and the reason why many so it is his because so many other people have covered it, but aaron, and I just wanted to give our thoughts and opinions on the case, but not have to go into a whole episode about it. So Look for that. I dont think that there is any way of knowing which children who kill will kill. Again, I think that's difficult. I think in some cases you can tell,

and there have been some younger killers who straight up seem like they would kill. If you let him out so far, cody seems to be one of those that was striking back and trying to save himself. Even it meant costing: the lives of others and how there is justice. In this case. I don't know when you look at what the jury day. I think they are on the side of caution because He said this is a young kid who suffered abuse and it's not really excusable. So they gave him the sentences that they thought were adequate. but they also wanted to urge the judge to be cautious and say he's just a kid and I know we've had some people read into us and say our system's: not about rehabilitation. No, it's not and they're right, but the general public with love for it to be about rehabilitation. We will

I do think that you go and you serve your time, but along the way you become a better person. You tell your of I'm going to change. I'm not going to be what I was, but instead we open more prisons, cut costs and allow prisoners to form hangs, smuggle in weapons and drugs and pretty much run the prisons. I don't think that's rehabilitation. I think that's doing anything that positive for somebody, who's trying to get back right track and sand. Regression was very very concerned about this. She maintained ever since and that coty was a killer and would kill again. And that by letting him out the judge what is putting society at risk. Signing the death certificate of his next victim will see what happens

and, seven years later we have somebody who seems to be rehabilitated.

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