This episode is brought to you by peacock presenting the original limited series, a friend of the family. on this story of the Jan proper kidnappings from nickel. oscar executive producer of the act and candy and direct producer. Eliza happen comes out, and compelling look at the harrowing story through new lands produce which a robot herself, this theory stars anna pack when Jake lacy common hanks, LEO Tipton and mckenna grace stream now only on peacock fx yes and Y see is the next instalment of the award winning anthology series. American horror story, crate by ryan, murphy and brad fell chuck with to all episodes airing each week. It promises to be a season like no other it s. An Y, see stars returning favorites like Zachary window and Billy lord along fresh faces, including Russell Toby and Charlie carver, some evil is coming at back.

Is age. Ass and Y, see premiers october nineteenth on ethics stream on hulu. the I do in Erin good. Are you doing great? I had an he did a day, so that always makes life better. Just before we get started here, I'd like to give a shot out there. Skip for his great donation. We really appreciate it he's one of are really interesting listeners. He gives some feedback on quite a few of our episode, so it's much appreciated so shattered, skip thank very much tonight's top,

It is something that, ah, I grew up with knowing this this folk tale and the spurt not evoked alice real story, and it it made an impression on me, and I to say that my opinion changed a little bit about it, but for the most part, it's the same from when I was a little kid discarded being mesmerized by the story. and something that you you suggested, and I was so happy when we started to do this. So what are we talking about tonight as well as the story? I may have suggested it to cover this week, but it had been suggested to us by listeners when Look up unsolved cases that have nothing to do with murder. This is right at the top, and this is the case of db cooper or, as he would tell you dan cooper

the story is about. A man who purchased a one way ticket for portland oregon to seattle, it costume less than twenty dollars. He, for it with twenty dollars, anti boy, the plain his seat, was towards the very back at the plain, and while he's waiting for it to take off he's told he needs to stow his attaching case under the sea. Well, it turns out that this gentleman has a note for the flight attendant and she said, although she doesn't reader right away because she thinks great someone else, is hitting on me, probably as just gave me his phone number and she has a job to do so. She's, not that interested she stows it away, but shortly thereafter he lets her know. She needs to read this note and it turns out that it's a note that's written in felton ink in block letters so for all capitalized its

The very ominous note, because at this point hijackings are not you could say there not common. This isn't something. That's that's happening all the time it was now a days. We immediately think of of terrorism, and while we don't really know his motivations, we can say that he was a threat to everyone on that In this note, read I have a bomb. I will use it if necessary. I want you to sit next to me. You are being hi jack, and so he needs her to sit with him. So he can make his demands and She can really those demands to the pilot and his answer he wants to. thousand dollars in twenty. Our bells He also wants for parachutes to back shoots and to front shoots and back shoots are primary parachutes when you jump. This is what

where the front shoot is a secondary issue and its morbid emergency issue raises a reserve. Shoot is the proper term for it. So if they job and the primary issue is something happens with that- you have secondary issue, and the secondary issue from writers, and it has even more stringent guidelines on how its put together and how it operates because it's your last chance, if, if you ever have to use its it's the last thing between you and and death, so it has to work this guy hijacks an airplane and he does it on thanksgiving, essentially which

I found that kind of telling, because there's a lot of people flying there's a lot of traffic going on. I think that was a perfect date. I mean, and also there is a four day weekend. Essentially you got thursday, friday off and then saturday and sunday, so he picks that day right to give him some time to pull off this caper thanksgiving eve, yeah thanksgiving eve, so there's a lot of people flying there's a lot of family out and about lotta people are at home. So he chooses this. Data to to PA office is hijacked

a nineteen. Seventy one. It's it's not. As I said it's not a time where this is something they're used to so the way they deal with. It is interesting because they have to make a lot of choices here. This man says he has a bomb while he shows the flight attendant. The bomb in the attach a case on the left side or what looked to be like dynamite sticks, something like that with wiring and going to a large flashlight battery. So it looks very threatening like something he could detonate and on a plane like that, which is the the plane itself as a seven twenty seven and this factors heavily into the case, because it's not by accident that he chose this particular flight. He chose this flight because it's a seven twenty seven and it has a unique feature, at least at that time, which was after stairs, which are these stairs that can be lowered at the back of the plane. Back in the day, the people got off on the tarmac

you know it s, the stairwell would come out of the plane and people walk down, sir well walk cross. The essentially we didn't have those big huge. You know hallways that rolled up on the side of the planet, so an easy way for people to get off the plane was the stairwell that drop down the back and that all exit out the back and this plane had that. So essentially, it's like five or six steps that just color, you know, come down and he can exit the plane using these stairs, they have mobile stairs. They can move up the airplane bet if they were at a location where they didn't have those or if they weren't available, they could lower the aft stairs and people can exit that way. Yeah. So it's a nice little option, and and again you- you know you- you mentioned that hijackings plane hijackings were not a

standard thing back then, and in the nineteen sixties there were a handful of hijackings that happened in america and it was mostly people trying to get to another country our more. Maybe there are political things you know Cuba whatever, but it wasn't the first hijacking anime can history, and I hear that a lot when people say this is the first hijacking you know on american soil and that's incorrect they were happening in the nineteen sixty also, but it was just a handful of, but once nineteen seventies hit. That seemed to be the wild west of air hijacking so and this kind of kicked off this gb coopers case. So he he has this. and he makes these demands they're going from portland seattle right right, so he's The much telling the seattle authorities to have the money have the parachutes have his demands met by the time they land right, and so they

they land at the seattle airport and at that point He lets all the hostages go or all the passengers go on the airplane right that the authorities at this point. They wondered what they should do. Should they give him parachutes it? Don't work were, should they should they try to trick him, should they try and storms. plain and take it. There were different ideas, but in the end they decided they didn't want to have any unnecessary deaths, any unnecessary trouble, so they thought perhaps if they just give him what he's asking for no one will die and then they can get him later. This Dan cooper was very careful not to leave his note behind. He made sure he got if he had a note for somewhere. He made sure he got it back so that use of careful about the evidence. You could say something that that I felt was interesting was how he came across to the flight crew he'd. He was a chain smoker.

he ordered bourbon and soda or bourbon on the rocks, and he had running letter, and he did show off a bomb in a suitcase, but he was very polite and he didn't Poor gone, he didn't threaten He wasn't threatening in in a verbal sense and he was most com, a professional criminal. At that point, hee he There was no need for unnecessary death, then that's you know so, but where's the authorities have no idea what their dealing with so yeah there there deciding or should we give him, he wants, or should we give em bogus stuff chewy raid, the airplane in Ghana, how'd you know they're trying to figure out how to handle the situation. There is actually an amount of time, almost two hours while they had to circle the airport before they landed to pick up the items he had requested and during that

I'm one of the flight attendants in the main cabin were tina. Muck, low and florence schaffner and in the first class cabinet, was Alice Hancock, but even though he handed the note to florence chef in the beginning, tina mark. I was the one who sat with them, the entire time that they were circling and It seemed ass though she was the one that was lighting and cigarettes for him. After all, he had his hand ready to trigger that bomb. If need be there, so they land and how did the year? How did the where these deal with them, while they down when they land, he sends flight attendant out to get the items that he had asked worth parachutes and the money there are ten thousand bills. So quite a bit of cash in today's terms that two thousand dollars would be well over a million from what I understand she drugged into the plane. I dont know if that was because she just didn't want to carry

wade. Who knows what her mood was, but you could say that tina, Macleod as someone who, later with that she had been cool calm and collected. The entire time by in situ in that they want really prepared, for. I think error, which is dealing with it, the best where they could, and that was just be really cool with him. Don't cause any trouble and apparently he even tried to tip the flight attendants, but they all refused each of them refused any money he tried to give them. They said it was against policy. The authorities, though they were they were kind of tricky here, because they they picked a certain lot of serial numbers for that, the twenty dollar bills and they actually recorded every single one in that time, for them to gather the money the parachutes, so they knew that if they gave this

as money if he spent it anywhere, they could track it. They could figure out where it was, then that must have just been a astronomical effort on their end to get this lot of ten thousand bills and find a batch of them and then record each one before this point Did I was really impressed that they actually went to that level has in two days time it would be worth exciting. You know a swat team to go raid, the plane and kill the guide and they wouldn't take the time to take ten thousand bills and and record each one so necklace April. So they used a record AK machine and it It takes pictures, they say at a high rate of speed and turns those images and two microfilm. So yes, they are committed every bill that was going to him pretty cool even for nineteen. Seventy

while another interesting aspect here is so he's made these demands. They have to come up with parachutes. You can't you say: oh, let me go grab some. They have to figure out where to get these four. and it's a thursday night thanksgiving eve. You know it's gonna be hard right. So what who is they end up finding a sky diver and they say in oh here's, we need. Can you help us with this? So he did. One of these. The primary parachutes was more of a sporting one that you are a lot of control with when you deployed it, you could actually steer your way through the air, basically and the other one is more of a man, terry model where it was good for storing you're descent, but you didn't really have any control and it was also refer on you when you deploy the shoot and strapped He ain't gonna nudes, it's a rougher deployment. It end

is sporting. One would be just a drop shoot in the military. Doesn't really care too much about comfort and convenience right, that's a good way to put it and then there's the the two front. Pairs suits, and one of those is actually a dummy shoot. I think it's because that's all the guy had. He didn't have for working shoots together. So one of those was a dummy shoot. I actually was marked with an axe and the suit the parachute itself was sewn up, so it wouldn't be deployable. It's just a training, training shoot to kind of train classes with me on a tabletop. Yeah they could take it out and toss it up in the air in this just to get them familiar with the with parachute before, Actually he says you know when they use it and training it's easier for him to go and collect in packet back away, rather than use a shoot, that's fully deployable. That would be a lot messier to deal with so whether

mentioned earlier, not intentionally in their haste. They grab. These four shoots in one of em happens to be a training or dummies issue right because there was talk of, shall we give em all dummy shoots, but when you don't have from what I understand, they don't have a million shoots to choose from you could plan whenever we want that, you don't have those choices, so you just have to go with what you have. And this man actually ended up hearing about this. You know through the new service. In saying out there go my parents, she hits and he thought the skies nuts, because let's talk about this, so he gives them more instructions. He now has it honey. He has the parachutes and he says, fly to mexico and he gives them specific instructions on how to do that. Oh yeah, like the flaps at fifteen degrees and in. once the landing gear down in the in the sky.

Away down, and they pretty much time now they tell him that they can fly at the altitude he wants at this. He wants? You want our biggest edi once that with the land. You're down, but they said there are two problems. One is that the act stairwell cannot be down and at first he says: oh yes, it can, but they say no, and so he seemed to give up on want to just say: okay, fine, and then they say the other problem is, is we won't be able to fly as an example? It would be like. We can't fly twenty five hundred miles like this as with the landing gear down and the flaps like you want the altitude, you want it's going to create more drag so We can only go by a thousand miles. It'll have to refuel.

it'll burn way, more fuel and so yeah. So they decide to stop in reno nevada to to do the revealing that's what they're planning and then he seems to just agree right away. Like ok, that's No, that's fine, and we do they not understand, like the guy's asking for parachutes, he's asking the fly at ten thousand feet very slow rate of speed is it is obvious that he's gonna jump, that's what thinking too- and I was reading this- that's a great point. It just seemed like he's letting them know. I am not going to be around very long. He asks Tina glow to go up front and close the divide or the curtain between first class and the rest of the cabin there. And she says the last thing she saw was that he had taken some of the courts. from one of the secondary shoots, and she cheating give all these details with what we work out is he

tying something around near as waste, which was it It is, though he was probably securing the money to himself. Using some of the cor from one of the secondary shoots and then they say that about half an hour into the flight? There is a pressure change, which kind of signifies that the baxter well has been lowered and then the the plane tips kind of like weight has been dropped off of it and that's about a half hour into it. So at that point we can kind of assume he's dropped the back stairwell on his. Off. I raised a point at which they try to call back to amuse the inner com and there is no answer and it round eight twelve p m? They believed that this happens and if you, if, if you like, to give you a really good idea, what this is like up the seven twenty seven on the internet. It this there.

well, isn't one of it's not a long stairwell and it comes out the very back end of the plane, tucks neatly away, and when it comes out it just sort of drops down some. So it's It's not a long flight of stairs, as you might imagine, it's actually fairly short something another sneeze. The thing the authorities did was they: they sent other planes to track and follow the the seven twenty seven yo on it's flight path, jet planes that they were supposed to hang back at us, distance distance and this point which which I'm assuming that would have been pretty hard because he told them to fly this plain at a certain altitude at right above stall speed. So these jets are probably having to me. You know, though, their having to probably fly circles is to keep back or fly around the seven. Twenty

in case that's dares to stall speak too. So I wonder how that went, but anyways there there behind the jet- and this is the north west so it's cold and its rainy that night, so there's there's cloud cover whatever so they're doing their best to follow this plain that db coopers on none of the other pilots saw anything. You know they were either too far away or was just too cloudy and rainy that night yeah there was a storm going on and I both It said that the wind force was miles an hour and that the temperature that he was throwing himself into who is about negative seven, while immunity miles per hour. Cassettes how fast the planes going and then you add when sheer of the storm and then you had the water,

you add when chill faster the winds blow and colder, it's gonna feel so yeah. It's it's not a pleasant thing that he's jumping into right now and he's not dressed for this. Whether either, oh we didn't, say what he was wearing. He was wearing a business suit. Well, this is what they wore back. Then, when people travel they dressed up yeah, they looked presentable and he was dressed. in a suit, depending on what you read, either a sport code or he trench code or a light rain jacket, and he was wearing loafers for much of the time he was on board the plane. He had dawned sunglasses. We have a description of him, but it's kind of if he because different people saw different things, and so you composite sketches. I would say one of the most interesting descriptions that I read was from someone who Was a he owned, a paint store in seattle and he was

right across from cooper and apparently he really check them out hu this person was and the official description before I tell you what robert said is that, vancouver was a white male, six foot or six foot one. hundred and seventy to say five pounds mid forties, which this factors and we start getting- the suspects all of complexion, brown eyes black hair, hair parted on the left and apparently left handed and robert Gregory actually said that His hair was marshalled, that was in a wavy. So if you look at the composite sketches, you won't see that you won't see that hairstyle by there was a sketch made later on much later on. I think it was that many years ago, where they included that and it gives them a different look and

where's that this is the way his hair was and Alice Hancock, who is the first class flight attendant? She backed up that observation that his hair was wavy and he also stated that cooper had on a rosette words jacket now I didn't know it russ. It was either, but it's a reddish brown oars. bertram maroon in color the only things that he left behind that could be tested later on and, of course, here in modern times we have dna, We have vacuums, we can suck up every little particle. I was on an object, but he left behind a tie that had a mother of pearl type in on it. He left behind one of the parachutes or he left by two two parachutes one had been opened and some lines cut and then the primary shoots the sporting shoot had been left behind and they

the left behind fingerprints. Apparently there was supposed to be one they they said they found one fingerprint on the rail on the stairwell on the back, the point Which is that that stairwell wasn't used all the time, so they're pretty sure fairly sure that that fingerprint probably came from him and not a worker or engineer whatever? So there is multiple, I mean, I think, with a family what forty or sixty latent prints all over the plane, but I mean with all the all the traffic you know you got the flight crew and the the passengers. You know it's hard to tell what's what there, but they they figure. They found many prints that they could tie to him comes into later. But let's, let's talk about this jump cars jumping out of an airplane? It's not it's not rocket science, but it's not magical either a it's. It's not an easy feat. When I was nine easy feat when you're jumping at night

storm in to a forested area and you're not dressed for it so there's a lot of discussion on. Did he know what he was doing or not? I mean he told them to fly at this height at this speed and he knew kind of what kind of shoots to ask for that. You know that that tells me that he kind of knows what he's doing the snow that depends on what you read, because in all the reading I've done it seems that there are different accounts like there's one account where supposedly, was told he was going to be offered all military shoots. Just you know standard drop shoots and he had said no to those. But that's something I have doubts about, because he actually chose a shoot like that yeah he he chose the the dropship, the military shoot over the sporting shoot, so it that right there calls into question and the fact that he took the dummy

with him. It calls into question what does he know about parachuting after a while they serve to think this guy? do not know that much about parachuting about skydiving, because- These choosing odd shoots. Now I have heard some say that by choosing thee showed that he Is that it would be better in the conditions he was in, because it would slow as descent better. And it would be better if you where the land in the trees with that issue, but it's a more robust shoe. So it can take the take the wind out of the way I mean it's a military shoots so made for this stuff plus, it said and it's raining so Is he really going to know where to steer? I mean, but I I think he had a military background and that's why he chose the military shoot cause. He was more familiar with it, but if it's true that he had said he didn't want the military dropped shoots, then it calls that into question and and again he has a one in.

you chance of choosing a shoot here. There's only two to choose from for his primary shoot. doesn't matter, and then there's a one in two Choosing the correct you know secondary shoot me get that right and then there is the question of. Why is he going to do this in a storm? Well, and so I didn't like the any advanced sky diver. Anybody that knowledgeable about skydiving would never do this in these kind of conditions. Well, I get that, but at the same time this is a desperate situation. I mean he probably had this planned and he does in a once. You bought that plane ticket. He had it in his head to fulfil. plan regardless of conditions, so I dont really disregard being a an expert sky diver just because of the bad conditions- maybe he wasn't exe,

skydive any thought he could handle that conditions. I do see it as a desperate situation, so it doesn't really matter it now. Desperate might be true, but that would explain why he buys the get in and get on board. The plane is not like he bought it eight months in advance or six months in advance. This is a guy that just went got to take it in depth and so surely he would know that day there was going to be whether now it could be argued that he chose to go because the weather might help him escape like, maybe he thought it would be worth the risk. Yes, it's more dangerous for himself, but then it would also be more difficult for to see him jump and be more difficult to find where he went, because the weather would be poor. Give him a chance to get away. It has been suggested that you know him. The remark at one point that he said that looks like tacoma down there. You so He knows the area, then perhaps what he's doing is he's he's

jumping in an area where he's already got something plant it may be? Has a vehicle and the area for someone re to pick him up, but either way? If he's planned this out in the down to the smallest detail, then we have to assume that he is willing to take certain It's include jumping into this, this winter storm. And my other kind of idea why. I think he has a military background is when he chooses the dummy shoot any experienced, hobby, east or civilian sky. Diver would probably able to tell that that was a dummy shoot in people say while he must- I not know what he is doing or had been a novice or an amateur, but I think well, if he was only a if he was in a military, then identifies the military parachute and doesn't take thee the sporting shoot and military. Maybe

the training shoots, don't have the same symbols or whatever to show you that it's a training shirt, because I know when I was in the military. We didn't have things identifying it as a training thing or not. They would actually use the real thing and just disable it you know whether it be a radio or even a gurney. They would take a real grenade and just hollow it out and you. We couldn't tell the difference between real grenade and the fake grenade, except if he turned the thing over and looked at the bottom and you'd see if one had all in it. So I wonder if that played a factor in why he chose this dummy shoot for his, serve shoot because he should known he should have figured that out. He had the time to look at it and no strapping on his back but everyone else says he doesn't know what he was doing and that's why he didn't he didn't know it was a dummy shoot. It was marked with an axe. So apparently that is according to the skydiver. This is house we identify was not a working shoot you. I guess my thing is that how you

in a fight in the civilian world? Is that how you identified in the military world or does the military environment. Just use a regular shoot and not you know not use a on issues. I don't know yet it's difficult to say, because you would think that if this is a guy who's very calculating, he has time to check out all the shoots now it could be that he breaks into that one of these. working reserve shoe cuts the lines on it and then later realises that he's got a dummy shoot that he didn't cut, but I would think that he wouldn't put it on maybe he's already at the money strapped home and then he's got the primary issue. Why would he add more variables? It's just it also know, probably know it got tossed out or something we just don't know, but it wasn't left on the plane, like the other primary shoot. Or the remains of the reserves that he had opened up. So

I don't know- I mean I think he could have had his hand on the record, jumped off the back thing in and hit that that way, and in that rain and everything I mean he wasn't dressed for it, but he had his hand on the record and as soon as he jumped he pulled the record. I think he has it chance to just at least get the chute deployed. I mean, if you want to break down the jump into pieces, I think he could have gotten that you know got it deployed and stabilized his fall. Now it's dark. He has no idea what you know he is going to hit when he gets to Can I get a tree? Is gonna get a cliff for? Is he going to get a perfect or a lake, or is he gonna get a perfect brassy? No, I dont know I think that the plane was going slow enough, that I think he could have jumped and got the chute deploy Now, whether or not he can make up greece will landing that's

whole other argument to do you think he could have gotten issue deployed Well depends on when he supposed to deploy his shoot it he could have deployed it immediately. I mean you: can you can deploy it sooner than later and you're just floating for a longer time in the wind might take you a lot either because the way a lot of the paratroopers do it in the notorious they don't even have a record that they pull themselves its pulled for them as their jumping out of the plane. I think he could just pull is mealy soon ass. He stepped off that thing. He could have it and might have had a chance, as opposed to free falling for awhile and employing it later but if he planned on doing that, then the force of the wind, the cold and everything could have definitely disoriented him and prevented him from pulling the cord. Well, that's that that's one of the factors here is that the sporting shoe has in

is pull cord to deploy the shoe, whereas the military one is not as easy to you now to find. Nothing we'd have to know where he'd have to be very aware of where it was when he was going out that nothing in the military is convenient to her easy, but here's the thing so he he jumps at night into the story. Into what we assume is forested area and this, along with the factor of the the money which has been recorded, is going to steer us in one direction or the other when we start forming opinions about what happened to the sky, because at this point he successful so far he successful he's gotten his demands met and then he's bailed from the plan. and apparently no one knows who he is now. This is work. here. We go any further. I kind of want to clear up the dan cooper thing. Dan cooper

as far as everyone knows is. A name that came from a comic book about a minute euro, named dan cooper. Are you familiar with this He was a sky diver paratrooper and so it's no wonder that this man who hijacked the plane, use this name. Now, you p, I news reporter was looking into the stories is developing and a clerk told him tat. They were huh, trail of some one and their name was db cooper. Well, it turns out that db cooper could not have been involved, but this? U I knew. Porter hearing this name ran with it and I have to say it is as in but he also tell you d, be cooper, sound way, cooler for aid notorious criminal, then dan cooper degree yeah. I asked on the original newscast.

The guy gets it wrong. Mary calls it d a cooper, you didn't say and could say de vigo breezes d, a cooper The media is really just getting the name right, but Debbie Cooper sounded better and its stock and that's why we call him dv cooper today, so he jumps and from this point on there's a lot of speculation, because we don't know for certain that he d Is shoot and so either he did or he didn't. and what posts? What was that for flip? A coin for I'm not going to flip a coin? I think we should fast forward a little bit because they actually search in area based on when he jumped and where they were, they actually certain area thinking they can find him and they find nothing. And then, based on some information from where the pilots that was flying behind, they decide

is probably another area they should search by it in reality. This story doesn't really pick up again with anything conclusive till the year. Nineteen. Eighty, though it's quite a few, we a number of years later, And this is when there's a, young boy by the name of Brian Ingram, he's out picnicking with his family or somethin out in the woods. right and he uses hand like a rake in the sand because he wants to prepare an area for a fire pit, so he's kind of pulling at the sand. Well, I think it's just a number of inches, he gets down and he starts finding money and what what hands at finding our three? packets, totalling fifty eight hundred dollars and lo and behold when they run the serial numbers. These are some of the bills that were given over to our dan cooper, a gay didi cooper,

so we lost some of the money. Now some of the monies it's like a river bank. And not only is it kind of embedded on the shoreline like buried in the sand, but it said that they actually dredged that river and deposited that sand on that bank. So, whether or not that money was washed up on that shore and then kind of sunk down or if it was part of a dredging and then deposited there, because nobody would leave money that close to water, they would put it more inland somewhere where it wouldn't get wet. There's theories here and I I don't like the idea that someone put it there on purpose. I don't like that at all. What's the point of hiding money when you're out in the middle of nowhere, you could just pocket that and go off somewhere yeah, but what they? they say, the rivers area, now the washing

and the little where sugar rivers are. Apparently the rivers in that area that are capable of moving, something like the packets of money and they would move downstream well, if The mining ended falling into one of these rivers. It could have been moved on into the columbia river and carried further south until it hit this error. where the boy found it, which is known as tina bar but, as you said, if they dredged and brought it up in deposited in or near by the river, then they made I have known that because of your dredging I mean how thick is that money going to be yeah, then it could have broken up all the packs. You know and they're probably just lucky that they had two packs to complete packs and then a third just kind of stuck to it. I mean they could have

destroyed the money in it could have gone everywhere. The rubber bans holding it together could disintegrated there really lucky that they were able to recover any of this money. It's it's almost like a winning a lottery at this point. So this is, I think, a big clue and I think, finding this money and then should be said, obviously that no other money has ever turned up, not a single twenty from the rest of us, that has never been recovered, his ever shown up anywhere. So we have some scenarios here. We can have scenario where he deploys is shoot, but when he does, the money gets blown off of his body. because they're sore about jerking motion when deploys that shoot, he can get thrown a bit and

I could dislodge the money and it could go just flying off into well. You might as well be the the dark abyss here at this point and it could have fallen into a river or he The point is you a landed. He got away and then something happened that prevented him, ever using the money and that its hidden somewhere or he went out into the weather and he was desperate and he miscalculated and so when he went out, he wasn't able to deploy and he ended up slamming into the ground somewhere or into the river orange trees. yeah trees and then a rip, the money out from whatever. But the money gets to the water somehow, so either he landed in the water or the money landed in the water and he landed somewhere else. Yes, so far, the water idea, and if he goes into,

ever he did sink down into the bottom of that or if you is carried along. It's a I doubt he got carried along, but if the money got carried along a good end up in a way like far away from the read it landed originally. If he didn't blow the shoe and he does hit the ground doing you know Terminal velocity, would be terminal velocity immunity searched and they searched and they didn't find him. but this is finding a needle in a haystack, and this is the wilderness, so animals probably could have gotten to his body. You know the elements got to his body got to his pack. Whatever so there's I mean if he, if they didn't find him in the first couple months, he probably could have disintegrated. At that point I mean bones would be left, possibly

if animals didn't get to those, I know I know a hunter something found day emergency it sign out in those same woods and yellow placard, Yeah placard so probably, and it came from the plane. Did it not yeah? I did so. That's a good sign that something that that we could trace back to the plane was actually, found. They also found a skull and they studied it and determined that it was a woman's skull. So that was ruled out they also edifying a parachute that had been buried, but they determine that wasn't related either so modern day. They can test the tie that was left behind and they extracted dna from that tie and apparently the dna is.

as time is gone on Dave. They ve taken a stance at it's less and less likely to really be of much use. Theyve used to say these aspects aren't good suspects, but again it's they can't say: oh well, we'll use it to prove it's this person. They can't really do that. They can use it to say. Well, it's definitely not this person, so it's tricky business and then you have the fingerprints, but they don't have good fingerprints for everybody. So it's tough to use that as well, though it's it's nice to have fingerprints that may belong to the person and that's the problem is the dna on the tie and the fingerprints might not be from him. They think it's pretty good idea or assumption that they are his, but we just cannot say that these are his until they match somebody else

So yeah that would be a real find well before we get this Specks, I'd like to talk about the fall out from the hijacking on the crew, because this being a a hijacking, these flight attendants crew members did, they felt that there are real repercussions for them in their lives. Tina mock, low she's, a lot of time next cooper and. so that was in seventy one. Some around seventy nine eighty. She becomes a cloistered none for twelve years. and she answered changing your name. Wow she's had people try to interview her When she became a nun, she was pretty much impossible tracked down. You couldn't talk to her, but before that she seen

especially when she first got into being when she first became an on. I should say someone spoke with her, but she just would say she couldn't remember it's it's as though they say it's like her mind is white, clean and she had sort of pushed all that away will, even at the initial interview have with her like freshly after the thing she she blew off the reporter she's. Like we already talked about this, he already talked to the pilot and we said that we'd. Rather, you asked the fbi than us. I mean she's, very aloof. Even then, so no not a lot of interest to talk about this event. But the co pilot of the plane was impressed with her. In fact, he bought her simply nice, perfume on behalf of the crew. it was chanel number five and before she became nine she's, someone who like to look nice and small nice. and then she became and on and on

against nuns, but this is a woman who must have had trouble and we can presume this because she became a nine. She changed her whole life up and florence schaffner, the one who was in the note in the beginning, she became very paranoid and right after this happen, she took thirty days leave and they say that she became very paranoid that she, when she would start a car she would, turn it over really slowly and she would check around the car nervous that there was a bomb and she feared that cooper would come back for her because she was a witness.

She was never the same since this happened and that's sad because out of all the hijackers, he was probably the most well behaved guy, but at the same time it is a guy holding you hostage, kidnapping, you literally with a bomb. So that's going to have an impact. Did the pilots fare any better yeah, not much on the on the pilots? You know a lot of pilots have military backers once they're probably used to more adverse situations, but yeah there's no real information. So it's hard to it's difficult to say whether they had any trouble or not. I would imagine if he's buying her chanel number five after the incident that he's not having too much trouble. Yeah yeah exactly he's more of a bow. I really think he did a great job handling this situation and we want to thank you. like I said I was himself and then the crew working together to find a way to thank her

and she was the one he went through the most because she had to spend a lot of time sitting next to it. sir hijacker did you want to get into the suspects now yeah there? it's a letter written or several letters written, but one of them was written right after the event as like a few days after the event, and it was you signed by db, cooper or whatever. And people claim that if you move letters around and do certain things it, it has a secret message saying cooper was Kenny or kenny was cooper and the first suspect is kenneth. Christiansen people say that he is the most likely of the suspects, but I dunno, if you agree with that or not, but what's up with Kenneth

well now you got into these letters. I'd like to talk about the letters. Real, quick you've seen the letters right yeah. How are they signed? They were assigned db cooper right, okay. Well, let's stop there yeah d b cu What name did he sign on the ticket when he bought the ticket dan cooper? Ok, I'm already kind bs on the letters yeah I mean, the one that was sent three days after. I almost think I could almost give it a path by saying o the media's getting my name wrong. So I'm going to go ahead, does role with it, but the other letters I don't. by at all, because none of the letters are very similar in style or anything

one guy. He was showing a letter from Kenneth and saying: oh the you know that the handwriting matches up- and I didn't see it at all- I didn't think it matched up at all. I was looking at it, I'm like okay. I think I think you're pulling pulling at straws here, but I don't think the first I I would side with you that the letter, the letters are be aspect. The first one is kind interesting to me, the rest of my thinker hoaxes, but would he be able to parachute down, get it thing together and send a letter all in that time. You know well why risks in yourself further why not leaving a mystery whether you survived or not, It almost seems like well. I took all these precautions for now, I'm going to start sending letters yeah. It doesn't make a lot of sense. It makes no sense and I I think he would have signed it dan Cooper again. It is.

to me, it just doesn't make sense that he goes with what the media had been higham when he never used that name. You were talking about Kenneth Christensen and his brother, Lyle is one who implicated him in this hijacking yeah. Now Chris Kenneth, he had a paratrooper background. He was a smoker and he was also left handed and he had what a remote resemblance to the artist's rendition sketch. No, not kenneth, christiansen, not not. According to what I've read yeah ago, the with him is when the investigators check him out. There are some couple of major holes in the idea that he could be a real suspect, one of which is, he worked for and every way which is the airlines. That was hijacked, so why would he go up possibly on an airline where he would know the people on board because he would be

acting with the crews change all the time. So here Maybe he might end up rang across people. He knows, but people would argue that it was him because he knew how the baxter or function than he had some knowledge the airplane, but no, he may not have known how the back the upstairs work, because he actually asked one of the flight attendants to show him how it worked. I'm playing devil's advocate That's some of the websites. I read where this is why he was Kenneth or you know, so I read a lot of crappy websites out there with a lot of bad information. on the other. There is a lot of bad information out there. He he also doesn't matches the description when I'm shanter, all their so I would say, the major thing that they used was that he works for the airline and ashes yeah it's

just doesn't seem reasonable that he would take that chance that he would be recognised so that they would say all that's, not cooper. That's you now, however, Lyle christians in really believe that his brother was was deeply, uber vancouver and he started sending letters to someone to pass onto nora ephron to the director and he started getting upset because he had heard that she's getting these letters, but she's not responding. So it was just kind of interesting. It almost sounded to me as if he was trying to make money off of this yeah, and then I guess he claims Lyle claims

at the deathbed confession that Kenneth said, there's something you should know, but I can't tell and never never really went into detail and Lyle says that you know he he's. He said this remark, but what you mean hey you know on my deathbed. I might have a lot of things that I should tell people that I'm not going to. So what does that mean? But yeah? So that's kenneth. I a lot of people think, is the most viable guy, but you could say that by any one of these as then he has to say right now, I dont see us going through every suspect

and the always really want this holiday at amazon and stuff that is discounted if you're, naughty or nice. The recognize employees with custom ink show custom

appreciation with custom ink outfit. Your teams with custom ink easily add your logo to your favorite products and brands at custom. Ink dot com make custom, ink your custom gear partner with great customer service, quality products and all in pricing, along with personalized help when you need it and an easy to use website all backed by a one hundred percent. Satisfaction guarantee do at all today at custom. Ink dot com, though Brian, where which would what are the top, was that you wanted I guess we don't have to do all of them. Well, let's, let's go on to duane weber. Okay, Duane weber was left handed. He had marshaled hair so his hair was wavy. If it's that description He was a world war, two that so age wise. It works he's actually, if all these spaces. Actually, someone who serve time served

I'm in six different prisons between forty five and sixty eight, and so he seemed to be a decent suspect so dna was submitted and fingerprints were submitted to check against the database that they have for the cooper case again, Here's where the trouble steps in is both of those fell, the match. So again you did. You could argue while the dna is unreliable and fingerprints, tat might not be reliable either. We just suspect the maybe it's because of where some of them were left by its, not conclusive. So he's one of those guys. that there are people who are there just adamant that he he is probably that guy yeah they. They say that he admitted to his wife that he was db cooper or he was dan cooper, but she didn't recognize. The name is kind of heresy.

He walked along the river bank, where the Tina bar area, but ok, wait, How would he know? I mean it is worrying that that suggest that he's planting or putting money there, which nobody in their right mind, would very new home, bury the money right next to water, so I dont really take that allegation is fact I mean maybe he was walking round in that area. Sure fine, but actually say. Oh, he walked around the tina bar and you know riverbank and then you know later on. That's when Brian and graham found the money it's like. Well, then he's an idiot if he actually buried the money on a on a watery riverbank. So I don't believe that at all either- and then you know the final nail in the coffin, like you said, is when his fingerprints and dna doesn't match. So

I think you're, just a guy. That was obsessed with with the cooper case now we can say this right now when you have an infamous case like this There will be people who will try to take credit it there. I mean we talked about this on that when we talked about the j f k assassination when you have a huge event tat, that takes over the media. You have people who up until then they have been nobody's nobody given him a second look and here's a chance for them when their desperate for attention, nor have aspirations of being well known or famous or infamous, will want to take credit for something or inject themselves into a story so that the the interviewed so they'll beyond the news? at least even in their own little circle of people. Oh wow, look, I'm a

So now you thought I was a. Nobody will look at it and it's crazy that police have to weed out the crazies that try to take credit for murderers and whatnot. Its is baffling to me that we that they have to hold back information from the the press and in the public, so They can weed out people that claim they have committed these crimes. Is we seen overzealous prosecutors? Take people, at their word so yea and go over this guy a little below more quickly but time, william gas, it He was for marine corps. Former army former army, airforce veteran was in vietnam and korea and he had jumped training and he retired for military service and nineteen. Seventy three.

And it should be said that he had one point become apparent or radio host, but in eighty eight he changed his named wolfgang and became a priest. Well. So one of the major researchers on this case is Galen cook and he he says he must be trying to dice disguises identity. I think that's funny, because he's gonna until eighty eight to disguise is hit entity. Does, he remember when this happened was fifteen years old yeah. So I think this is really funny. And in it just goes to show that you can have a guy. They attach their name to a case. They ve in about it? They're, the go to person to interview but even then it doesn't mean. Did they are any at analyzing this case. Anyone else

What I'm saying if, if Galen cook, seems to think that there is something to this guy, that's an opinion. There's nothing actually lie, the king of this William gossett to the case. No, no, no one's, surprise even brought it up, because it's dislike that one had nothing to it. Although you're going to bring up the the richard mccoy guy now we'll get to him, but I just don't like these vague things were, like Galen cook says that he talk someone else and that person who is a passenger on the hijack aircraft, says: oh there's, a physical detail, which No one can know about their boat, the hijacker and gas. It have Maybe this is the guy that dominates. That's like

really bad rumour- and I I just can't take answers. I think this is this- is one of the worst aspects of their no definitely disturbs me, make any sense But sure we can move on to richard mccoy junior, me veteran, he served He was a helicopter pie. With a green berets, why not him right? I mean, after all, he did board a seventy seven the year. you know the next year and with what look like a hand grenade and a hand, gun and demanded for parachutes and five hundred thousand dollars. It's the same. It's the same m, you know, but he. He wasn't the same, I mean to me it's. He wasn't the same demeanor as the db cooper before he was a little bit different,

and I mean there is similarities in the and the hijacking I didn't find similarities in their personality. Put it that way, He seemed a little more brash. He seemed a little bit more. I dunno just violent as compared to the original hijacking, where Dan cooper was more polite. I guess well, we talked about this and I said you know if you want to stretch it. If you want to make it fit, you could say that the coop or something went wrong with the first one, and so this time he was actually angry. They had to go through this all again right yeah, I guess, but there are some issues with this with this suspect and they're kind of difficult to just dismiss they sort of shoot holes in in this guy's a suspect in that sort of a joke, because he he was killed in

shoot out with fbi agents after he escaped from from prison dreams in there for two years he escaped from prison, and here dying in a shoot out with the fbi by ETA. There he's got some major issues, the age and they states believe that, just knew too much about skydiving that he would have approached the whole parachutes situation differently. Then then, Dan cooper did so that's part of it too, and then also they actually have evidence that shows that he would not in that area. In the area when Dan Cooper hijacked that plane, he was actually in LAS vegas zone. For here it's just it's not likely that that it was him, especially. I think the age is probably one of the major problems, although some might say you can get someone's adrian,

you know if it's only twelve thirteen years difference in looks perhaps not an aids, then yeah they. He could fool you. If, if dang cooper was younger than he appeared, then that's what s possible threats can a drink and bourbon does makes you look older, that's possible. You know he they say that when you ve seen their smoking that he smoked at least eight cigarettes, so smoking one after the other, I'm so glad that I bought I was flying on aeroplanes that they'd put in a smoking ban. Second, even imagine being stuck in an airplane everyone. Smoking chain smoking like that. but it'd be awful by. I can say this it. It's someone remarked that it's too bad, they didn't have the cigarette, but still because they were collected if they had the cigarette butts. They'd have a great dna profile of of Dan cooper, yeah

but now they didn't keep track of. No one knows where thereat and how I didn't even get the sense of that. you ever had originally collected them, tried that hard to find them, but maybe I'm wrong on it, but I think mountain richer mccoy. He got the most press because he was a copycat hijacking. He you know, did all the same things, I d cooper did. There's a book called the real mccoy and the fbi agent. I shooting mccoy. He said you know he quoted when I shall Richard Mccoy, I also shot gb cooper at same time, so that gives more credence to his profile as being db cooper. But I think when you have the aid, it said that he wasn't saying. I believe that this guy was db cooper. I think you are, I was shooting db cooper or

You know ransom hijackers when I shot richard mccoy, but it's all up for interpretation. There could be either way and if you years ago a woman named marla cooper came out and said I think my uncle was db cooper answer. She pointed to win Doyle cooper, who apparently round the family quite a bit up until after the incident jacking and then he disappeared. Now he didn't disappear into thin air. He actually, just went away, but he had marshaled hair wavy hair, and he was a korean war veteran and appeal May he and another one of her uncles was out turkey hunting that day. That's what I said but the day before, the hijacking he and their uncle were

they talking about some sort of plan they had and they were using Radios testing these radios out. There are like c, b radio type things. Walkie talkie is very lucky talkies and then the day after the hijacking he shows back up and his shirts bloody. His white shirt is bloody and he said that it was due to an auto accident, but he seems at according to her that he and down gods our talk, About money troubles being over things, nature, so she suspects that he is davy goober. That's an interesting case because. he. He has an alibi. He was out turkey hunting and it's thanksgiving, so it does kind of make sense that he might be out turkey, hunting and but at the same time is this plan.

Walkie talkies. Is that he's meeting his friend down the words and blah blah blah, or is that just two guys just being stupid together? And you know I mean it's what we do so and then later on, his obsession with you know the comic book or whatever it is now here we have no verification I'd like to that we don't have. As far as I am aware, any verification that he was obsessed with that comic book euro, that something that said though we don't even have verification that he was actually wearing a bloody fur begin this Just her story right yeah. I think one of the things that shit's a hole in her story. You know, never mind him, but she actually said that the fbi's her that you know this cases. Since they are now, we know was here

you know you're right it. It had to have been him well if he talked the f b I and some f b, I agents have been vocal about this they'll say yeah we reached no conclusions yet on that, so they're not got there not operating with this. As its case closed that cases still open and in fact there was I don't remember if it was a couple years ago by fbi agent, car, one on the news and was showing off all the evidence and everything and going on talk shows and he said I want to raise awareness, because this is a active open case and if we can get it back in the Look. I and somebody remember something. Maybe we can close the case. So if it was her uncle and why would this agent be out there on talk shows right now, so I was surprised by

in nineteen seventies. How many hijackings happened? I mean it seemed to just be out of out of control back then and he she he see her as sharp declined and hijackings in the nineteen eighties nineteen nineties, and then you see a huge decline in any kind of error incidents after september eleventh, but after db cooper I mean after the nineteen seventies, really they they changed the way airlines operated and the security right. I mean this. This was a game changer in our industry and they they implemented metal detectors. I think they'd put your locks on the cabin doors, the cockpit doors and me we dv cooper in in the nineteen. Seventy is pretty much change. The way we fly today

they dont use those stairwells anymore. They did they either. Don't you know if they had them on the airplane they welded them shut, or they just you know, phase them out to attrition, then install them. How are things anymore on the points where, for a while there, they actually devised a mechanism that window would take off that something with slight. Oh and block from opening whence it landed it would I slide back out of the way with their so could be used by that stay around very long. They ended up actually just preventing those things from opening any more. You know that they kept that for a little while, but after time they just they just stopped using the app stairwell it just. You know at this point, look at it this way in seventy one. He had db cooper in seventy two. There are fifteen hijackings yeah. That's says

That's a large amount, and that should tell you you know why would they change up how they deal with the airports? Well, it's because now there's this huge risk, I mean they don't want people decide jacking these planes, so that would just kill the industry. So something had to be done and.

if you know people always hear about sky marshals today, while we we had sky marshals, were a sky marshal program back in the nineteen seventies. You know that that was something that they started doing then, because of the hijackings, and you know they started searching everybody's bags. They started going through everyone's stuff, and I remember you know when I was a real real young kid. I remember people yelling about the invasion of their privacy when they flew on planes and neon. We really hear about it now with the tia say: that's what they had to do at that point you get somebody in charge of a a jet, they can fly it into anything. That's it's a scary, scary thing. So so the area out by where the money was found there's a place known as aerial store. It's on state route, five o three, which I found kind of interesting because the flight was thrilled

these are all five and this is says: state room, five, zero, three and it said the store, but it's a bar in they actually have a dvd cooper, look alike contest they discuss the Is there especially when it's the saturday after thanksgiving every year, they have a kind of a special event going on there. front room with tables, and they have done cooper aerial store, hats and shirts and actually like a white parachute hey from the scene, and then in the border area. They have like a makeshift dance floor and they'll have like a lie. Ban planning and in one of the corners actually have sort of a shrine area, dv cooper. with news articles and there's even like dear. That has like the sunglasses in additives is kind of humorous to me that they have there really celebrating this case just like roswell, you, mexico does

with your roswell your faux incident. That's that's what I was thinking of when you were saying it was. It just sounds like roswell, so why does db cooper? Get I mean? Why do people idolize the sky? I mean he's he's a hijacker, I mean he hijacked a plane and you know essentially got away with it. Why do why do I think he's aunt I hero or whatever motions eleven was popular film. Was it not, and I think people have this fantasy of doing something bad, but not too, you know no one died. So I think they look at him think about it, so cool housing pull it off. No one else has so they got away. No one knows who we really is and the monies urban located so whether he is alive or dead. You know and alive. people's minds. I think they look at him and think, while he got away with it, it's like a big a few to the man

but you know it. At the same time, I I used to think he was a cool cat and you know guy in a business suit. That's just ridiculous, but the more I studied the case and everything the the less I feel like. I need to idolize. Well, they're, not letting him go in nineteen, seventy six late, nineteen, seventy six! The authorities realise that this guy, Is I mean. it's gonna, be a statue limitations coming up, so they it is something so they On an indictment for him, and so they named John DOE a k, cooper. and they issued this against him against the hijacker of northwest flight. Three o three zero five, so they can keep looking because they've actually issued an indictment against him, which is it's interesting that

It that they've literally indicted some somebody that they don't even know is alive, somebody that they don't know who it is, though it's it's an interesting way that the law worked that way cause. I just assume that how you indict somebody when you haven't charged or arrested them, Yeah, well, I think it's their admission that even though I think most people believe he didn't. You know like most of the authorities, don't believe that he got away with this. That he's dead. What you could say he got away that because they didn't name him, they didn't catch him. Then he find his body, but I think it's their way of saying Just in case, we find some information that it someone you did get away with it. We and still hold them accountable, so justice never rests yeah exactly and the plane in question. I think this is kind of thing Was sort of sold here and there throughout time and then

eventually, a commemorative black was installed, bore the plane denoting its connection to coopers. You know hijacking in his job and then. Brian and grandma actually got to keep some of the money that he found on that bank in here, cells it now and auction and yeah he doesn't donated anything gives the money, but I thought that was Interesting ways had to sell some of it because he needs he needed the money. Though I know his mother expressed regret that they ever found it and I'm to hear her say it. I it's almost like she says that this whole affair and finding the money help to break her and her husband up so ensure fab. They ve made film on this night any one, the pursuit of db cooper- treat williams star of

dead heat I believe place cooper. and Robert Duvall is his former military commander and the yeah I saw some footage of it, doesn't really remind me of this too much by you know. It's a movie, there's actually is, alma that's a comedy. I haven't seen it I was told me about it- is about the hunt for coopers, loot and its cause. Without a paddle. If you ve seen this movie the reality yeah it's it's down, but it's fun, but there is a great youtube channel called redneck mystery hunter, and this guy was on the four db cooper, and that's where I got most, my information for his part cast yeah totally get it, but I did watch it. It was ridiculous gap here if your interested in- all of the evidence that they are able to glean from this case. There's really

site. It's titled citizens lives dot com and you can poor through the evidence. the money that was found the theories about our sugar river- information tina bar where the money was found, all of the particles and things were found on the tying clean, the dna, any kind of any kind of conclusions they reach Image is so if you wanna take this case further. We took it then by all means check out citizens lose dot com. I think it's a really interesting website, it's it's driven by Citizens, but I believe they were of they are pretty good help. I think to this case, and anyone who's is curious about it. Yet I was the man site thoust check now, and I am sure that anyone listening to this, especially if they had an interest in his case before we started discussing it, they have their own theories about,

happen. I'll, just repeat my real quick. I think he I think he may the job because he had to. I think he was desperate and it was either I'm going to die or I'm going to be able to save myself with this money, and he made the jump in would say based on those plans, not seeing anyone jump on that plane. I think it's because he didn't deploy a shoot. I thank you and then he got thrown down and I think he, probably went into a river somewhere. And down and died immediately and Y know, the money has ever been spent because he died. I think if he had lived, I think

it would have been spent. Somehow my my theories a little bit more complicated. I think he made the jump. I think the money was ripped from his body and he landed collected his chute licked his wounds and went back into society without the money or because they they never found a shoot. They never found his body again with time and elements it could have just you know gone away, but I I think that they did a lot of searching and I would have figured they'd might have found him or some remnants of him if he just hit the ground and died unless he won in the water than anything happened. Others debate this day, eggs they were, he would have landed. If he had landed and so it's a great amount of territory you're talking about, and we start thinking about you- exactly the amount of area the that they're having Look at I'd say it's pretty easy to lose him.

In today's world, when we got planes and help after a searching for growing operations era, they can pinpoint them in mountain tops. I just. I would hope that their search and rescue team would have been able to find him back, If he's dead, then he's not making a lot of noise but if he's alive he's, probably not trying to draw attention to himself either. I I I think he I think he might have made it, but I, if he did make it, he didn't make it with the money yeah. I can see that either way I dont think you ever had. I don't they give the money once he exited play. I think that was it either way It was a major fail. Well, you know some would say it was a success because he wasn't caught. He wasn't actually discovered so it's almost like you could say it see there a win win or lose lose yeah. You can be ninety percent successful, but if you fail in the last ten percent, whether that be failing

They have the money or killing yourself. Then it's a fail while he wasn't caught so we that's a success. You may not have gotten the money, but if we use that he was desperate than I thought That's why the authorities believe that salaries and they would believe, That is because, if he really was desperate, he would have tried something else to get the money One thing that was said, while he was on the plane, was he was asking your d ever grow, it's against this airline, and he said now. I just have a garage grid. So it's interesting it's what's this grudge about, I'm not part of your system, though it on the ground exactly exactly so interesting case. I think it's one of those, it's one of those cases where it still could be solved. I think I don't think we're looking at a jack the ripper case here. I think this is something that could still be solved, but yeah, it's time

goes on its it's in our time biology, are research could be better by, there is also there are witnesses that go they get lost theirs. that's no longer as useful sounds as you get better. Other things get worse, but I think its past I can solve it. Do you see them solving this, or do you think this is? This will just be a mystery from here on out they they're they're going to need a break, and this case they say it's the the cooper curse where you you get evidence that you think is going to solve the case, but then it goes nowhere. I think the case is solved solvable if they just get the right break, but I think it takes time, and sometimes you have a window of opportunity and that window might be closed.

But if they did a match, hey they got it, but I would be in the seventies or eighties now, if he still alive yeah, he would be probably aser. Ninety yeah because they're, you know, if you go by the eyewitnesses, they say he was in his forties- have a seventy one were now in fifteen thousand fifteen. So, but he was a chain smoker and a drinker. So I don't think he lived to his nineties, though I think it's probably more likely that if, if he had survived, which I I don't write but stock in it myself, but if he had a yeah, probably didn't make it to teeth

and maybe even though it is difficult to say the. In the late sixteen hundreds, the coast of north america, became a hotbed of piracy, but a man.

And pirates were much more than just armed robbery of the high seas. They were also crucial figures in the growth of the thirteen colonies that would eventually become the united states. I lindsey grand the hosts of wonders, show american history tellers. We take you to the events times and people that shaped america and americans our values, struggles and our dreams. In our latest series, we take you back to the so called golden age of piracy and reveal the true stories behind such mythical figures as black beard and captain Kidd listened. the age of pirates by following american history, tellers on apple, podcasts, amazon, music or wherever you get your pot casts within one girls and ad free by joining one replace an apple pon casts or the one rehab.