This is an unofficial transcript meant for reference. Accuracy is not guaranteed.
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tonight, I'm doing ray justin. How are you feeling much better? Well, sweet you're doing ninety nine percent better. So how are you doing better than ninety nine percent hundred percent baby? All right I'll? Take it for those of you on patron. Look for an interview with me from a couple of equal guys in montreal. The distortion pie cast haven't even heard it yet. So I'm looking forward to hearing it. What are we talking about tonight? tonight is a very mysterious case. It involve a sixteen year old teenager by the name of any mccann who expectedly ran away from home behind a note that told her parents not to look for her and with in just a couple of days. She was dead over an hour away in baltimore and she lives in virginia. It's a mystery
and as we go through the case. I think you'll discover that this is very He very mysterious much like the disappearance of more murray is two thousand and eight halloween in alexandria junior Annie mccann is six years old living at home with their parents. She is a junior and high school, she drives a white on volvo to and from school. She is a painter she's, an artist, pretty good one too. I have seen some of our work and I was impressed. She has her dog that she loves very much and lots of friends at school. Pretty good kid. I want October thirty. First, two thousand eight they expected to hear from her end always called her mom after school. It was
a ritual or maybe a request. I buy It is, moreover, request. they really like to keep tabs on her know what she was up to where she was what she was doing. Rapture concerned. Parents, I've seen some comments out there on the inner webs that they were overbearing very strict, but they wanted to just monitor her facebook activity I wanted to know where she was and when she was coming home, keep tabs on her. I think that's good parenting, but other people think it's over. She had recently back then created a facebook account and her parents wanted her password and log in information, they could keep an eye on. It again be concern right. It's a teen dog. who is not over protective of their teenage daughter, so any supposed
come home from school and she does not return home and she does not call mother and her mother immediately think something's wrong. I call it a motherly instinct, why think of as a breaking of a habit, and since her daughter in collar after school- and she always did. This is definitely a warning sign right she called her husband, Dan and he went to check it out and out to look for her Dan would later say that when he left, Work that morning, he actually checked in a room is kind of glanced in. He saw her shape under the covers. So he knew that she was imbedded that time. According to him, and now he's going around the home, and
the fine justin, while he finds a note in her bedroom, saying that she's depressed saying she doesn't want to continue. thing, but she wants a new start on life, she's leaving and not to look for her in the note cheeks rest that she had considered suicide then she realised that she could just start her life again started over after all as access to a car. She has access to money and she take off and start over somewhere else she had saved up like a thousand dollars. She had some food and her favorite clothes packed up and she took off. So it's not real clear if she stole this thousand dollars from her parents, because she wasn't exactly working and stuff.
Or if this was money that she had acquired over time and saved up sir of the news stories, insinuate that she saved this money up, but I was sixteen. I was unable to save a thousand dollars, save my life, so I don't know if this was stolen or not. The parents are very protective. Her, so they would probably never admit that two Annie stole the money or not his mother, Mary Jane, had visited Annie's brother sam in new york, She was concern for her daughters, welfare she and her son drove back home, which is about six hours strive. They check the messages on their answer machine and their fairfax high school is called and reported there their son or daughter, did not attend class that day and they did not get a call from apparent giving them a pass. So they know Annie did not make it to school. That day
So they have some idea of what she took with her. Obviously she'd drove the white volvo. and she had thousand dollars. She had some jewelry, she had a box of curios, but within two days they receive not good news: yeah, there's a detective sean jones, who is called to a scene in baltimore maryland at the perkins homes, housing project and its. A predominantly black area, some guys throwing way, some trash from a local store nor from local parliament and finds us this body directive. Sean Jones initially thinks homicide, because what else would this be? You have a day girl behind building and She looks a little beat up so he's going with. This is foul play Annie's talking to the parents, about
that, but he doesn't have many leads. When they initially found her body, they also found her backpack and the police would find a fairfax heisel the whole pass and her idea in it. I realise that this wasn't a baltimore local and this adds to their initial. This is foul play there I ended up recovering the car not too far from where her body was and it appears to be dumped and there's a bunch of trash. That's been thrown out from the car, but they're able to find a fingerprint on the string, well we're on the vehicle and when they run that through the system it belongs. to a door. Now, kin law door now has a record. Therefore he's in the system not the best kid they give him. A call up.
Question him about this car and the dead body. He will tell investigators that a bunch of his buddies in him came across his car, They saw that there was a at body in the back seat laid out, and they wanted to take the car for joy, ride and possibly steal some stuff. If there was an a value in the car, so they open the door and they pulled. And he's body out and stuck it by the dumpster and then took off with her car. That sounds really system dishes and cold. I'm gonna hold my opinion on that, but they do take off at the car and end up dumping it later now. What I'll do they find in the car when they recover it? Air seems as though they find all of her things. Even the thousand dollars goin thing that they can tell is missing at that point is her shoes so when they find her
you're lying on the ground. She peers, clothed and she's, missing her shoes and her box, don't appear to have been dirtied yeah, my knee jerk reaction or a response. That is, somebody stole her shoes. That's the easiest explanation, and it was probable one of the guys that dumped her body or somebody else they just came along and took her shoes. She wasn't walking around barefoot and socks because they were clean, not dirty again. This sounds really suspicious and I'm right there with you. It does seem very suspicious. Why would somebody come along and find a car and pull a body out and steel some shoes. You would think that dead well, behind a building get away. You don't want to get involved with that. You don't wanna, be accused of anything with this
but it's baltimore crime rates a little high people do stupid stuff, especially teen kids. While the police don't seem to go after can law very much do they know they take his word, for he says he I didn't harm her. I just moved her body, she was already dead and then they seem to accept that which I think he should have impressed way harder self, that's just seems like common sense to me They performed an autopsy on her body and curiously enough d Go examiner lists lighter kane toxicity as her cause of death, the manner of d is undetermined, because the medical examiner cannot tell whether it's a suicide or homicide or an accidental death. Exactly now,
that trash that was thrown out of the car. Well, we find some items and one of them that ass light, a cane is a product called back teen and it's you used for piercings, your piercings and other type of things that teenagers get that's a cleansing and a pain reliever. It's also antiseptic soulier for people who get their ears peers. And spread on therein. Like just just said it it'll help with the power little bed but will also help it'll help, keep it from getting infected yeah. She had her ears pierced in august, so to two and a half months earlier, and her parents claim that she was very diligent about keeping her ears cleaned and she would treat them again
we'll times a day with sprays from this bottle, and they also said that she just had the one bottle. They only recovered one bottle from the scene where the car was don't write so Let's be clear on this day only found one item that would have had light. Ok in it, yes, and yet, as I said, the parents said that she just had the one bottle. This is important because from here on out the parents feel as though their daughter been murdered and She must have been poisoned somehow, maybe a drink was spiked with little king because they said this is a Five ounce bottle aback teen. It doesn't have a A flight of cane in it to match up with the amount of light, a keen that was found in her system You go over these numbers, but essentially for her too
the amount of lighter cane in our system that they do covered during the autopsy. She would have had to have had three bottles worth in her system ingested orally. Exactly. But they only recovered the one and the parents maintained. That was the bottle that she had had all along. I dont think it was the boy will she had all along because, like I said she had her ears pierced months before, I think she probably would have gone through a bottle it by that time had had bought a new pottle at least now. This bottle does not have a screw up top. It's the child proof kind of. Oh, it's you have to forcibly removed the top by either chewing it off ripping off, just whatever you have to force this top off because its poisonous and they don't want kids
hold it is so when they find this bottle. The top has been removed their on any fingerprints on it, but they do find her dna on the lip of the bottle, meaning it appears. he drank it. So! Well it surprise you. If the police determine This was a suicide. While we have a suicide note, we have a team that ran away, we have the cane in our system, and we have a bottle that appear. to have her dna on the lip of it. So what I want is to the cops are done with their investigation. Let's go back to this autopsy report, though in topsy report. It seems to gloss over the fact that maybe she has some injuries to her head to her face. Yet it pretty much doesn't say anything about that. The parents think she's in perfect condition and she just been poisoned
therefore they can get on board with. Maybe she did take her own life, but it soon they find out that there's scratches bruises and a goose egg size bump on her forehead. That's not really mentioned well that that kind of tips him off there's something wrong with what the medical examiner is found, because they're pretty much saying was it had no signs of assault or foul play. Well, maybe she did when the, parents finally get hold of the images that pictures of her. They discovered a j on one of her legs. And their worry is- is that it was a pre brand that perhaps she fell prey to a sex, trafficker. Here's there their idea, her father says that he had to drive her to and from school a few times before she could figure out her way
to school. She was not good with directions. He sang ass. She just wasn't capable of finding her way to baltimore on her own she's on facebook. There monitoring it, but not really seeing as she's communicating with anyone. She somehow leaves makes it all the way to baltimore she's found dead She has this J on her leg and once her body gets to the funeral home, the funeral director says her brain and heart were not returned to the body how they noticed this or if this is actually true. This is according to the funeral director and the parents. but if it is true, is just one more thing that the parents have over the medical examiners, autopsy reports and their botched analysis. Well, the funeral jack
doesn't just tell them that what else does the funeral director say says there are signs of sodomy because of dilation. All I can think of when I read that was our jeffrey hovered case the man accused of killing a baby and there is a huge aren't, even if you want to call it a debate, but a lot of pathologists will say after death ass. Your muscles will dilate or become loose, so you can't exactly say if this was an assault or or rape or if it's the bodies, natural reaction after death, Unless you can physically see damage tearing ripping. You can't jumped to the concrete and that a dilation is simply it is simply that can't say whether or not it's an assault or not was on people. It is the talk about it needs it
discussed, because this person at the funeral home is saying they have seen many bodies and they typically only see what they saw with Annie with elderly people with younger people. They never seen anything like this. So that's what alerted damned as a possible rape in this case and in meanwhile even the detectives lake. Had never seen anyone take their own life by drinking back teeth. That's just not common We have a lot of uncommon situations here. They also found a mark on her face that low. Very much like a cigarette burn? Now the parents and the funeral director think it's a cigarette burns, but everybody else just thinks it's a mark, a scratch or
abrasion. The autopsy also revealed that she had eaten premature to full stomach before she died It wasn't just a full stomach. I mean they said she had consumed a lot exactly. Maybe it would be about how much you indeed on thanksgiving now they dont say exactly what food was in her stomach, but they just said it was a lot. Funeral home director also points out that her fingers were pruning as if they we're submerged in water which the parents will interpret as Somebody was washing her washing evidence away or submerged her to get rid of the evidence and then put her clothes back on and then moved her to the car or dumped her body. Where where it lay. I don't have a lot of explanation of why her fingers of deep rooney at that doesn't seem
normal to me, but a dead body does weird things. I don't know that seems odd. It could be reputation because even doktor Michael barton said he didn't believe that the fingers look pretty at all The funeral home person doesn't seem to help matters some of their observations, so her parents are really freaking out because their thinking she's been beaten, she's been sodomized and she's been branded all points to one explanation to them and they look at the medical examiners report their finding faults in it there is some things left out and there definitely so you're not gonna get. them to choose. They're mine now that the instigation is botched and their daughter has absolutely been murdered. there on that round. Now that path, they are not happy with the police investigation, they're, not happy with the. I guess you could say the results
or the conclusion that the police have come up with the meat they ve been investigating, for, I think they said anne overall. I twelve hundred hours chaser on these leads, but they're they're coming up. This was suicide and case closed parents. Not happy with this? They hire their own private investigator, who happens to be an ex baltimore cop and he goes out and he finds it's like an italian pastry shop. This peace, you shop is close to where her body was found and is called the corals, hope him saying right, and he, those inside and questions some of the employees and chosen pictures of Annie and at least to the employees, say yeah. I remember her on that She came in with another woman and they had coffee. The
woman. She came in with looked haggard, looked weird like a junkie or sex worker, some type like that not very kept, and she was older. She was possibly in her twenties, whereas Annie is obviously sixteen. So what was Annie doing that day with another person, possibly in it Ellen, possibly somebody that had to do with her disappearance and murder. One of the women who said that the woman had heavy make up and it She had a nail polish. The or what she'd never seen before she described it as puke, yellow the seams very, very specific. Now the question here that is raise is that this dispute an investigator that was hired by them cans. He may have,
finally brought a picture of any that was put together by her family that had the word reward on it. Possum motivation for someone to recognize her past, while motivation to also just give them story, I dont know if he kind of brings them And the question is all I'm saying if he had just brought a picture of Annie with No other information, that's one thing, but if he did bring this amounts to a missing slash reward poster there I don't know- maybe people will talk because their hoping to get some money, it's difficult to say so- the parents absolutely are feeling like you're having to investigate this case on their own cause more pd is ineffective, even weren't, very api with their own local department when they reported her missing because they didn't issue- and amber alert or
raise. All the alarms which possibly could have got witnesses to her or her car, may be found her faster. Who knows take a moment to get a word from our new sponsor price line. Do you have a group chat where you continuously talk about summer get but never asked go anywhere well. Summers! Finally, here it's time, to get out of the office or your house and get a change of scenery with price line. You can save up to sixty percent on your for hotels plus, find amazing deals on car rental, an flights, and when you save money you can explore more. That means more beautiful views and experiences. more poolside fun, doesn't matter where you travel zones or out of the office. I always use I signed a fine. The lowest rates out there and you should do have price line. Every trip is a big deal. So when ready to book your next summer, adventure visit price line, dot com for the best deals
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as either suicide or an accidental death and, of course, the parents. they don't like hearing this at all, because they feel like there too many unanswered questions and it seems like police department is just moving on and they're not ready to move on, and I get it again. There's some discrepancies here. If your child died, and you were given an autopsy report- police reports that had discrepancies in them. I don't care how truthful or how good intention. Those reports are you're, you're, gonna, question everything and now beer, everything's bs in the police, aren't helping you that's just the way. It is because it's a highly emotional ties the police department maintains that the medical examiners report indicating- light. A cane toxicity is the key here
so the parents they want. Second and third opinions. They go to other experts to see what they think about this and one of them is doctor, Michael barton, who is a world renowned forensic pathologist? I would do the same thing I'll be right there in their shoes. Getting a second opinion. Oh he's. Thinking about this he's looking over the autopsy and he determined Just doesn't seem right, because one five ounce bottle of this back and wouldn't have enough light or cane to poison her, not in his opinion. They also get a senator to help put some pressure on law enforcement to get more information. They had already engaged the f b. I at this. went so Senator chuck grass we write, some letters for them gets
a little bit more information and in they reach out to bear who produces back teen. So when the police question bear, they didn't ask enough questions and how much it takes. They just asked much as a bottle have end? Ok, we got our answer and we know that she had, a keener system. So we're done- and I think it depends on how you look at this view. Looking at it as the police didn't ask how many bottles would it take well I think the police know that it will take more than one bottle. I think the matter we examined or knows. I would probably more than one bottle to get those levels. I think the police just assume that she had multiple bottles, but her parents are good. Going with the little information that they ve been provided, which is the police believe. One bottle will kill you and they think the police are or mistaken and
and they should have asked bear how many bottles is a take and therefore would take more. There wasn't more found, so they should keep investigating. I think it's a serious miscommunication here. Well, twenty twenty covered this case and the actually talked with doktor bill mannion and he's a forensic pathologist. He look into this, and he believes that one bottle it could kill. You exactly there's nothing really for human consent, and in this bottle it's for topical. Only I to reiterate this, but the parents slowly believe that she had one bottle in her possession and that it was the same one. It wouldn't even the full amount it wouldn't be five ounces. It would be much less than she had her ears pure months before, at least two months before and is using this consistently on a daily basis
I don't know how many sprays or in a bottle, but a shoe, you was using it twice a day on each ear at least four sprays a day go with that when I used to use benaco I'll go through that my two weeks I mean it's one of those questions and I think the parents could wrong when they say she had one bottle at it. Now we only recovered one bottle from the scene. So we have agreements going on here between the authorities and in the parents and their investigators and their experts. It's almost like. The trial going on here without a real trial. You know I mean yes, the parents are trying to bring forth their information and the police. As well fbi who they later meet with? They just attempt to shut down the parents. Now this
kind of reaches ahead. In my opinion, when the parents, through their due diligence, they're doing the best they can t get all the information they finally get. The case file, its hands them. I think on a flash drive yeah this more or less that senators doing again in him, putting pressure on the authorities and getting them to turn over more evidence so there's some reductions and things, but one of the things they discover. Is that their opinion. This is early on that the police depart is trying to figure out a way to get the parents to settle down. In other words, They have already decided. This must be a suicide an accidental death, and yet the parents keep calm to them and saying someone at our daughter. So they're trying to come up with a way to get them to basic they go away like her do we appease them? So
the leave us alone and even talk. in these reports. They talk about how some act as anyone work the case because they want to deal with these parents there very tenacious parents This is kind of upsetting, because in this reminds me of the kendrick johnson case, where ok so the police feel that they know what happened. They have their theory. They feel like the case can be closed, but you of parents who have lost iled so yeah, maybe they don't accept your theory. Is that the way treat them, though, is to be dismissed of them. That's something that law enforcement. depends on who you get the bedside and who can be really bad and very dismissive when you're, out every day, patrolling finding Bodies arresting portable people. You become numb to it. This is
all that world and your callous you don't know how you come off. The somebody you their whole world now is destroyed because their daughters dead Is it possible, though, that the parents just took the wrong way? I mean, on the police side there, just trying to their job, they feel like they completed the investigation and now they're trying to work other cases, and yet the parents keep coming back. Act to them and asking questions and trying to give them information when they're moving on well, they got the f b I to investigate and the f b I look over law enforcement findings in the fbi's findings, were they concurred with the police findings.
But again this is all law enforcement. So now the parents, I'm sure, feel like well. Of course, they would find on the side of law enforcement because they're law enforcement to well possibly, but the parents wrote about this article irish, I should say Mary Jane Annie's mother did and she talked about how they go to this building this cold. Looking building with the fbi and as Fbi was question further and further about different aspects of the case. The parents felt as though They actually didn't know as much as they led them to believe that they did so. The parents left there are pretty much getting sent off, hurt and probably feeling about lost, because this is the fbi and it felt to them as if the b, I basically said yeah, we looked over the their case files.
We feel like they did inadequate investigation. So there's nothing to see here. Well, the pair sorry eating living breathing this case they know, inside and out. So you get some fbi, pr guy who's, trying to appease them. Well, yeah, that's probably not gonna go well, we can t. hang on with the different findings and the different experts in what they said in this person said that that's were rat, three years after the finding of Annie's body, remember our friend darnel can law well, he ends up murdering another woman and stealing her car. Now he is, murdering la kisha player, who happens to be his girlfriend and he shoots her so darnell original person who found Annie's body and stole her car.
has been accused and charged with murdering another woman and stealing her car, though, of course the pair latch onto this and think there might be this darnel kin law, then we had suspected war, I was my reaction to what I heard it was likely. What's that? No disguise no good and the absolutely had something to do with this. So the authorities go and visit D. Arnault can law a core to the news that the parents here, how do they start this short little interview with our now well. They seem pretty dismissive and their initial interaction with em right. The way they come often interview with there now is they basically sorrow by saying that and his parents are letting this go so were basically obligated to come and talk with you like we, already know. You had nothing to do with this, but here we are missing that just murdered his girlfriend. It's on
like they're on his side? I I yeah. I would think that they could press a little harder here so for these parents who have lost their child and don't feel like they're getting ants if they don't feel like law enforcement, is taking the death of their god or seriously. It's like the hits just keep coming yet again, a guy and his friends coming across a car with a day girl in it dragging your body and in taking up the car. That seems really vicious now add in that same I is now sitting I'm bars for thirty years for murdering his girlfriend, but the way the parents frame it Is he murdered a woman and solar power? Well, that sounds very similar to their daughters situation, but
it was somebody he knew any shorter, not quite the same situation. Do you think that the priorities, look at d, arnault and think well. If he had actually had anything to do with the debate, as of animal can he would have said so right because he did confess to killing lucretia player. That's the thing is a serving a thirty year sentence. He probably thinks he can get out twenty on good behaviour. So why would he confessed anything else, but do you really think you anything to do with her death thou I beg you, look like a really shady character, but if your pressing to give a yes or no? I can't do that right now. If we're gonna go with the murder theory, here. We have a, sixteen year old, runaway but she running away or what meeting somebody who was
their travelling with her or giving her directions. If we're gonna go with the pair theory of that. She was forced then to sex trafficking. Shoe with this woman, add a pastry coffee shop and then later on found dead, with branding honour on her leg. If you want a thing Darnell did it then great? If not, then she was murdered or poisoned Four doornail found her and he just happens to be the the lucky guy that came across her body that I guess that would be my summary of the murder theory right pay. They attacked her. They raped her Andy poisoned her with light again came, I mean self have never heard of somebody murdering somebody else with lady came, but
then again, I had never heard of somebody taking their own life with lie to Cain either. So I kind of half dozen one six, the other right now. If we go the suicide theory or accidental death, she had written, not one but several notes Talking about how unhappy she was talking about, wants to ended all talking about sort of spontaneous, destructive behaviour like I'm, going to run away and start over, I'm a sixteen old, who doesn't know anything about life, but I'm gonna take off in a car with a thousand bucks who knows where I think you can get on the highway? You can end up anywhere. I don't think you really have to be good with directions. In fact, the worse, you are with directions, more likely. You are gonna, show
up in the middle of a bad neighborhood. We need to talk about these notes, because there were a couple of notes that were crumpled up underneath her bed and when they looked at these notes, meaning the parents, the investigators Annie, had crossed out what she had written. There were large axes, essentially, on these notes, and these were the notes that indicated that she wanted to enter on life. Those were ample drawn under her bed, the note that was left on top was the one where she admitted that she had considered suicide but then she realised that she could just run away and she said that she loved life and she was re alive, so she didn't want her parents coming after, but that she would be ok it's a runaway note, its I'm leaving and leave me alone, and you go back. listen to interviews with the parents. They will say she was very high
be she had a circle of friends and, and she was living of a good life. She didn't train she didn't smoke. she didn't go out, she went to school and she came home and she was very reliable. She always called her mom after school. she enjoyed going to church. She believed in her faith, which was she was catholic, so This is very much at odds with the girl that her parents paint a picture of four you. According to these, says. She's. Writing she has depression. and she's anorexic yeah, all due respect to the parents, had gone through a nightmare, but they don't seem to really accept that they had a troubled child. Now I get that you have your perceptions, I get that, you have what you want to remember your child ass, but their own emission is. She was a happy go lucky kid.
And it's like these notes, don't even matter which she wrote is inconsequential they were, I'm leaving and I'm gonna go start my new life and they completely disregard the I am unhappy with life, I'm anorexic and I want to kill myself. that that just doesn't seem to even click with the parents at all. When we discuss this before mental illness is not something that most people really understand. Worried are recognised We see that all the time with our justice system, but any herself that she was anorexic in these notes and erects ia, carries fort times the risk of death as major depression, and it said that the mortality rate of people with anorexia is more than five deaths per thousand
if the people, the deadliest mental illness, if you look at the mortality rate exactly it's very lethal, I look at. She fully admits that she's anorexic, but she's found with a full stomach of food. It's a little off here. Now, I'm thinking I've interviewed guess on my peripheral podcast about bolivia she says, she's anorexic, but eating disorders can blend. I'm thinking this bottle of back team, a lot of the sea in terms of overdose or symptoms of poisoning are it can make you throw up no how much she drank. I think she drank more than a bottle. I think she was probably doing it over time. and she might have been doing it to purge it's a theory. Is this an idea? I say this is what happened, but I see lotta people say, murder or suicide. I think it I've, been accidental, she might have
In trying to to purge- and she was using this to do it- I could be totally office, not if we think back to the I witnessed reports who said they saw her eating. She was at the bakery in little italy who Maybe she had then going round and eating and then, like you said, maybe she wanted to purge. And since she had, been using backing for a number of months. Maybe she had found that she could. induce vomiting with it and would use that to purge. After all, just look at pictures of Annie They even have a picture of Annie the day before she went missing, so they have a picture from october thirtieth she's anorexic, it's pretty obvious with any eating disorder. It just causes
havoc with your body in your system. The only reason why I think she drank more than one bottle, which caused her death is because of the amount of light a cane they found in our system. I wouldn't be surprised if one bottle would have killed her because, if you're going in the red, if you're starving yourself, if you're not directed all these factors also near a lot more susceptible to poisoning to drugs, to other things, I'm just thrown out their kind of talk and out loud, not saying that I come down, but it's just an angle that haven't read anywhere. I think that it could have been accidental, but with going with all the suicide notes, now you're back too. While it might have been intentional parents have lots of issues with. Why did she go to baltimore to do this? You know a lot of people say. Why did she do it this way? Why did she drink back teen to take her own life? That's just weird!
No one would do that. Why would anyone take their own life mean? That's you're, not thinking logically anymore you're, going against all self preservation, an instinct, so I gotta throw out what you would logically would or wouldn't do at that point. If that's your and go, this episode is brought to you by progressive. Have you tried the name, your price till? Yet it works just the way it sounds you tell progressive how much you want to pay for car insurance and I'll show you coverage options that future budget. It's easy to start a quote, and you'll be able to find a rate that works for you. It's just one of the many as you can save, with progressive, get your quote today, a poker. Dot com and see why four out of five new otto customers recommend progressive, progressive casualty, insurance company and affiliates price and coverage match limited by state law. Why wouldn't it be logical, though, if her parents are very controlling and she needed get away to do this in her baron
didn't know about this, or they don't admit to it. I don't know if that's a saving, this thing or if they just have no clue what's going on in their daughters, live, and I feel portable saying that, because they ve gone through hell, but from an outside point of view, a load that clear, we have already talked about how people had said that they believe the parents we're very controlling. After all, she didn't get to go where mean she lily went to school, she would come home, the parents do everything wow what she was up to accept for, of course, her depression anorexia. As far as we know they never let on that. They did know about that, but corny them. She was happy. She was a great kid, but she take soft ngos to baltimore maryland and for me and other points, reality is that she wanted to go and live a little bed just because she said
that she decided not to take her own life doesn't mean that she didn't change your mind out there, so it could be either way and that's where it seems like the police could be correct. Either She did change her mind. You decide to take her life or as justin has theorized. Maybe she did accidently take too much back teeth. The parents say that they ran a task to see what other sites since as she may have consumed and that if she had taken multiple bottles of backing, that other things would have shown up, that are ingredients in backing, but that they don't find those things so the pair there are very much in the camp that their daughter must have been poisoned with light. Ok, not back team, but light o king issues forced to drink
it or was injected with it, something that effect or somebody put unlike next a dad drink. You know with coca cola or something else or alcohol they're, trying to explain how she had alcohol in our system, which amounted to just about a drink yeah. It was point zero for somethin. So again and if you're looking for a straight answer, this case, you're, probably not going to find it. It's going to come, as to how much do you actor. In her aunt, axia and her depression and much. You weigh the words of her parents. I'm your parents say she would drew or sheep he took a thousand dollars some clothes. She had a list of to do things on her hand, little things like that, they're like people that are going to take their own life. Don't do this and I'm thinking you don't know what depression is. I don't think they quite understand.
Yeah. I wouldn't feel comfortable trying to explain her depression. I think everyone's depression is probably somewhat unique to them and how they deal with it, especially if it's coming to a head. If she's writing these notes that indicate that she was ready to enter on life, then I think that's a pretty big factor and I know one of the three he's just and I talked about before even start recording was. How can we come down on a side on this case because everywhere. I look everyone's doing that everyone saying this is different: a suicide. This is an accidental death who seems kind of rare and oppose I read or that she was murdered and yeah. I just have a problem coming down to firmly on one side because one we don't have all the evidence. I feel without having other bottles of vaccine
or a source of this little kane that it's really really difficult to say what happened to her sure I can say, her injuries that she sustained problem it happened when she where do a seizure, something if she was poor and she had a seizure, she could have hurt herself or if she wasn't quite deceased when those guys founder and they tossed her behind the dumpster. She I sustained injuries there. We also don't know what happened to her body. While it was behind the dumpster. Anything could have happened. It was not like. We had a camera there in this jay on her ankle they explain it as levity, the pooling of the blood, and it just happened to pull that way. Possibly her leg was, you know, cross on or other leg. So I just around the impression she wasn't wearing saw
that had a big j on them. So I don't think there was any kind of clothing that caused it. But I don't know if I looked at the picture in the pictures, not very good quality. It does look like a j, but the bottom of the J doesn't look could be. Paradise were looking and were seeing a pattern that really isn't there, but I personally don't buy it. But maybe if I had a better like a higher quality picture, an image to look at them. Maybe I will change my mind, but the quality of the picture I see online is not good enough. I believe that the parents have kind of messed with the pictures a little bit to change what we see but just to lower the quality, because these pictures bother them and they have admitted as much so it's difficult for them to share all of the information they have, because its painful for them The question, just I mean, do we need to come down on a side on this. I feel like if we just put out all of the theories
people can make up their own mind if they want, or they can just real eyes that, in the end, what matters most here is that we know she was anorexic and we know she had depression and for all the control. They had over her life and be involved in what activity she was up to It seems like they missed the boat on this and for Be writing notes or just look at her she's anorexic, she's under way she hasn't eating disorder. This is real concern, and I think that is the question I am left with is why couldn't they have recognised what was gone I'm with her before she ran away from home. Because again, if she was happy at home, she wouldn't have run away yeah. I
just the other day. A really had asked me how I felt about this case and I said, leaning toward suicide, but every day this week I felt differently. I dont know I think it's possible. She could have been murdered, but we can't prove it. I think it's very possible she took her own life or accidentally took her life to really hard to prove with what we have left and that's the problem, and I know parents, who children have tested positive for math, but then lied and said: o a suit of fat or of some allergy medicine and the prince, like ok, I've seen them I'll, be in my own life, extreme denial and when it comes to Annie's pair. And I think there is a little bit of that happening now. I don't think they are bad parents. I dont think that I don't know
or overbearing or not, but they definitely have a misperception of their daughter, and I understand why she looks like a good kid, but she had problems and they don't wanna except those things I believe they lost their daughter today she ran away by then it was too late. P, I and the medical examiner that they hired they still we'll come down on. They think it was foul play, but they disregard D the sexual assault, the sodomy they disregard a lot of the believes that the parents have, if you're, connecting the dog- it's in believing every single piece of this war the sudden. Not all the dots should be involved or included, because there isn't a lot of evidence for some of these gains one I think thing I'd like to talk about is Keith ab low, he's
psychiatrist and he talked about the method. The cause of death according to medical examiner she used, what was available, which was the backing. It had light, ok it and that's why they found in her system. That will explain why she died. Keith blow said it stood in the imagination, to believe that a person intent on dying which choose this obscure and extreme. The uncertain method of attempting to take her life, one just The medical examiner said she used what was available. So it's not that obscure for her. and also when some of them anton dying. I mean out some of the methods that they use, you don't know if you jump off, if you're going to die, some people jumped from just a few floors up. People when they reach that state seem to again use whatever method is at hand and
times. Their methods. Confuse us Don't know why they would and their life in a way that they do, but I find it inches that he thinks that this just seem so unlikely when of the items she had with her. This was, what was at hand was her back teen so sheep, ran away from home. She has admitted to lot of issues, depression, her life was obviously not on this. straight and narrow anymore. She was in a desperate state. The parents don't seem to want to accept that which that's a problem I have, but when she goes out- and she finds herself strange place, maybe she's thinking, she's gonna start or life over, but it doesn't work out the way she wants There is a lot of information and details about
the way she was found which was found with her, but I can't get over the just the fact that she ran away from home she had light a cane in her system. She had a bottle of acting that as lie to cain in at the top was removed and it appeared she'd drank from it all of a sudden everything else. I I guess I'm kind of feeling, like the police here, everything else seems pretty inconsequential. but all the other things do hold a lot of weight because they make you question her parents, have found some solace in this they connected with the key issue: players, mother woman whose murdered and actually gave her Annie's car the white bobo? They didn't want the car anymore. They were gonna have crushed, but she needed a car. She was a need, so they
their daughters, car away- that's, I guess it's a silver lining, its its closure. In my mind, of were we're. Moving on a little bit here were able to let go and help somebody else, and I hope they keep following that path, while originally they had kept them are and were hoping that they could get investigators to take another look at it, but by letting the cargo. That is, then letting go a little bit, I would say, but I dont think that they have completely let go because the mother is still out there. She still talking about this and she gets on twitter now and then and she's definitely try to connect with other parents who have lost children under mysterious circumstances,
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Tommy sucker brought founder of the trendy, high fibre effect or diet has celebrity followers, including megan, kelly and supermodel olivia cocoa. But allegations of troubling side effects with a diet began to surface and people started a question: does she selling powder or power Emily jealous a popular fashion, influence her saudis allegations and put the diet on blast to her own large social following she launched a crusade to expose tanya any factor diet. What was once an online feud escalated into the real world resulting in threats, lawsuits and a whole lot of drama from wondering. Comes a new series about wealth, wellness and influence listened a fed up on apple podcast, amazon, music, spotify or you can listen early, an ad free by joining, wondering plus in the wonder YAP.
Transcript generated on 2022-08-27.