Death of Annie McCann. November 02, 2008. Baltimore, Maryland. A 16 year-old girl from Alexandria, Virginia is found dead behind a dumpster in Baltimore, Maryland. A note left behind in her room indicates that she had considered suicide but instead opted to live by starting over somewhere else. In the note she also asks her parents not to look for her. The parents are devastated and cannot account for why their happy daughter would have run away. An autopsy is performed and the cause of death was lidocaine poisoning. The teen had brought a bottle of Bactine with her which contains lidocaine, but the amount contained in a 5oz bottle may not be enough to cause death. Her car, a white Volvo, was discovered several blocks away. A fingerprint identified inside of the car belonged to a person of interest who would admit to pulling a dead girl out of the car before using it to joyride with friends. As more details emerged the mystery deepened. In a case that is just as perplexing as the disappearance of Maura Murray, we attempt to figure out whether Annie McCann was murdered, took her own life, or accidentally poisoned herself.
See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.
This is an unofficial transcript meant for reference. Accuracy is not guaranteed.
I don't get a lot of time to sit down and read a book boys on the go, but I love you
so the solution is audible. Audible offers an incredible selection of audio books across.
John genre, best sellers new releases celebrity memoirs, mysteries, thrillers catch crime and there too, as an audible member, you can choose one title a month
including the latest best sellers and new releases. One of my favorites is lost connection,
uncovering the real causes of depression and unexpected solutions. Only though
on audible, let audible help. You discover new ways to laugh and be inspired or be entertained. New members contrived for free for thirty days does audible dot com, slash gaeta, BP or text gdp to five hundred five hundred, that's audible, dot, com, slash gdp or text gaeta BP, two five hundred five hundred to try audible free for thirty days
audible, dot com, slash gaeta BP, dead, mom to get word from our sponsor crime scenes, we ve seen
all right washed up on the shore
get out a shallow graves buried under the house and stuck in the bottom of a lake, but sometime
there's a little more off the beaten path that makes you sit upon your car
and shouted your tv wait. They found the body where, but that's what you're looking for we got. You
ready to stream some crime stories. Hulu, it's a crime not to watch
new,
tonight, I'm doing
ray justin. How are you feeling much better? Well,
sweet you're doing ninety nine percent better. So how are you doing better than ninety nine percent hundred percent baby? All right I'll? Take it
for those of you on patron. Look for an interview with me from a couple of
equal guys in montreal. The distortion pie
cast
haven't even heard it yet. So I'm looking forward to hearing it. What are we talking about tonight?
tonight is a very mysterious case. It involve
a sixteen year old teenager by the name of any mccann who
expectedly ran away from home
behind a note that told her parents not to look for her and with
in just a couple of days. She was
dead
over an hour away in baltimore and she lives in virginia. It's a mystery
and as we go through the case. I think you'll discover that this is very
He very mysterious much like the disappearance of more murray is two thousand and eight halloween in alexandria
junior Annie mccann is six
years old
living at home with their parents. She is a
junior and high school, she drives a white on volvo to and from school. She is a painter she's, an artist, pretty good one too.
I have seen some of our work and I was impressed. She has her dog that she loves very much and lots of friends at school. Pretty good kid.
I want October thirty. First, two thousand eight they expected to hear from her end
always called her mom after school. It was
a ritual or maybe a request. I buy
It is, moreover, request.
they really like to keep tabs on her know what she was up to
where she was what she was doing. Rapture
concerned. Parents, I've seen
some comments out there on the inner webs that they were overbearing very strict, but they
wanted to just monitor her facebook activity
I wanted to know where she was and when she was coming home, keep tabs on her. I think that's good parenting, but other people think it's over.
She had recently back then created a facebook account and her parents wanted her password and log in information,
they could keep an eye on. It again
be concern right. It's a teen dog.
who is not over protective of their teenage daughter, so any supposed
come home from school and she does not return home and she does not call
mother and her mother immediately think something's wrong. I call it a motherly instinct, why think of as a breaking of a habit,
and since her daughter in collar after school- and she always did. This is definitely a warning sign right
she called her husband, Dan and he went
to check it out and out to look for her
Dan would later say that when he left,
Work that morning, he actually checked in a room is kind of glanced in. He saw
her shape under the covers. So he knew that she was imbedded that time. According to him,
and now he's going around the home, and
the fine justin, while he finds a note in her bedroom, saying that she's depressed saying she doesn't want to continue.
thing, but she wants a new start on life, she's leaving and not to look for her in the note cheeks
rest that she had considered suicide
then she realised that she could just start her life again started over after all
as access to a car. She has access to money and she
take off and start over somewhere else she had saved up
like a thousand dollars. She had some food and her favorite clothes packed up and she took off. So it's not real clear if she
stole this thousand dollars from her parents, because she wasn't exactly working and stuff.
Or if this was money that she had acquired over time
and saved up sir
of the news stories, insinuate that she saved this money up, but
I was sixteen. I was unable to save a thousand dollars, save my life, so I don't know if this was stolen or not. The parents are very protective.
Her, so they would probably never admit that two Annie stole the money or not
his mother, Mary Jane, had visited Annie's brother sam in new york,
She was concern for her daughters, welfare she and her son drove back home, which is about six hours strive. They check the messages
on their answer machine and their fairfax high school is called and reported there
their son or daughter, did not attend class that day and they did not get a call from apparent
giving them a pass. So they know
Annie did not make it to school. That day
So they have some idea of what she took with her. Obviously she'd drove the white volvo.
and she had
thousand dollars. She had some jewelry, she had a box of curios, but within two days they receive not
good news: yeah, there's a detective sean jones, who is called
to a scene in
baltimore maryland at the perkins homes, housing project and its.
A predominantly black area, some guys throwing
way, some trash from a local store nor from local parliament and finds us this body
directive. Sean Jones initially thinks homicide, because what else would this be? You have a day girl behind building and
She looks a little beat up so he's going with. This is foul play Annie's talking to the parents, about
that, but he doesn't have many leads.
When they initially found her body, they also found her backpack and the police would find a fairfax heisel
the whole pass and her idea in it. I realise that this wasn't a baltimore local and
this adds to their initial. This is foul play there
I ended up recovering the car not too far from where her body was and it appears to be dumped and there's a bunch of trash. That's been thrown out from the car, but they're able to find a fingerprint on the string,
well we're on the vehicle and when they run that through the system it belongs.
to a door. Now, kin law door now has a record. Therefore he's in the system not the best kid they give him. A call up.
Question him about this car and the dead body. He will tell
investigators that a bunch of his buddies in him came across his car,
They saw that there was a
at body in the back seat laid out, and they wanted to take the car for joy, ride and possibly steal some stuff. If there was an
a value in the car, so they open the door and they pulled.
And he's body out and stuck it by the dumpster and then took off with her car. That sounds really system
dishes and cold. I'm gonna hold my opinion on that, but they do take off at the car and end up dumping it later now.
What I'll do they find in the car when they recover it? Air
seems as though they find all of her things. Even the thousand dollars goin thing that they
can tell is missing at that point is her shoes so when they find her
you're lying on the ground. She peers, clothed and she's, missing her shoes and her
box, don't appear to have been dirtied yeah,
my knee jerk reaction or a response. That is, somebody stole her shoes. That's the easiest explanation, and it was probable
one of the guys that dumped her body
or somebody else they just came along and took her shoes. She wasn't walking around barefoot and socks because they were clean,
not dirty again. This sounds really suspicious and I'm right there with you. It does seem very suspicious. Why would somebody come along and find a car and
pull a body out and steel
some shoes. You would think that dead well, behind a building get away. You don't want to get involved with that. You don't wanna, be accused of anything with this
but it's baltimore crime rates a little high people do stupid stuff, especially teen kids.
While the police don't seem to go after can law very much do they know they take his word, for he says he I didn't harm her. I just moved her body, she was already dead and then they seem to accept that which I think he
should have impressed way harder self, that's just seems like common sense to me
They performed an autopsy on her body and
curiously enough d
Go examiner lists lighter kane toxicity as her cause of death, the manner of d
is undetermined, because the medical examiner cannot
tell whether it's a suicide or homicide or an accidental death. Exactly now,
that trash that was thrown out of the car. Well, we find some items and one of them that ass light, a cane is a product called back teen and it's you
used for piercings, your piercings and other type of things that teenagers get
that's a cleansing and a pain reliever.
It's also antiseptic soulier for people who get their ears peers.
And spread on therein. Like just just said it it'll help with the power
little bed but will also help it'll help, keep it from getting infected yeah. She had her ears pierced in august, so to two and a half months earlier, and her parents claim that she was very diligent about keeping her ears cleaned and she would treat them again
we'll times a day with sprays from this bottle, and they also said that she just had the one bottle. They only recovered one bottle from the scene where the car was don't write so
Let's be clear on this day only found one item that would have had light. Ok in it, yes, and yet, as I said, the parents said that she just had the one bottle. This is important because
from here on out the parents feel as though their daughter
been murdered and
She must have been poisoned somehow, maybe a drink was spiked with little king because they said this is a
Five ounce bottle aback teen. It doesn't have a
A flight of cane in it to match
up with the amount of light, a keen that was found in her system
You go over these numbers, but essentially for her too
the amount of lighter cane in our system that they do
covered during the autopsy. She would have had to have had three bottles worth in her system ingested orally. Exactly.
But they only recovered the one and the parents maintained. That was the bottle that she had had all along. I dont think it was the boy
will she had all along because, like I said she had her ears pierced months before, I think she probably would have gone through a bottle it by that time had had bought a new pottle at least now. This bottle does not have a screw up top. It's the child proof kind of.
Oh, it's you have to forcibly removed the top by either chewing it off ripping off, just whatever you have to force this top off because its poisonous and they don't want kids
hold it is so when they find this bottle. The top has been removed their on any fingerprints on it, but they do find her dna on the lip of the bottle, meaning it appears.
he drank it. So! Well it surprise you. If the police determine
This was a suicide. While we have a suicide note, we have
a team that ran away, we have
the cane in our system, and we have a bottle that appear.
to have her dna on the lip of it. So what I want is to the cops are done with their investigation. Let's go back to this autopsy report, though in
topsy report. It seems to gloss over the fact that maybe she has some injuries to her head to her face. Yet it pretty much doesn't say anything about that. The parents think she's in perfect condition and she just been poisoned
therefore they can get on board with. Maybe she did take her own life, but it soon
they find out that there's scratches bruises and a goose egg size bump on her forehead. That's not really mentioned well that that kind of tips him off
there's something wrong with what the medical examiner is found, because they're pretty much saying was
it had no signs of assault or foul play. Well, maybe she did when the,
parents finally get hold of the images that pictures of her. They discovered a j on one of her legs.
And their worry is- is that it was a pre brand that perhaps she fell prey to a sex, trafficker. Here's there their idea, her father says that he had to drive her to and from school a few times before she could figure out her way
to school. She was not good with directions. He sang ass. She just wasn't capable of finding her way to baltimore on her own she's on facebook. There
monitoring it, but not really seeing as she's communicating with anyone.
She somehow leaves
makes it all the way to baltimore she's found dead
She has this J on her leg and once her body gets to the funeral home, the funeral director says her brain and heart were not returned to the body how they noticed this or if this is actually true. This is according to the funeral director and the parents.
but if it is true, is just one more thing that the parents have over the medical examiners, autopsy reports and their botched analysis. Well, the funeral jack
doesn't just tell them that what else does the funeral director say
says there are signs of sodomy because of dilation. All I can think of when I read that was our jeffrey hovered case the man accused of killing a baby and
there is a huge aren't, even if you want to call it a debate, but a lot of pathologists will say after death
ass. Your muscles will dilate or become loose, so you can't exactly say if this was an assault or or rape or if it's the bodies, natural reaction after death,
Unless you can physically see damage tearing ripping. You can't jumped to the concrete
and that a dilation is simply it is simply that
can't say whether or not it's an assault or not was on
people. It is the talk about it needs it
discussed, because this person at the funeral home
is saying they have seen many bodies and they typically only see what they saw with Annie with elderly people with younger people. They never seen anything like this. So that's what alerted damned as a possible
rape in this case and in meanwhile even the detectives lake.
Had never seen anyone take their own life by drinking back teeth. That's just not common
We have a lot of uncommon situations here. They also found a mark on her face that low.
Very much like a cigarette burn? Now the parents and the funeral director think it's a cigarette burns, but everybody else just thinks it's a mark, a scratch or
abrasion. The autopsy also revealed that she had eaten premature to full stomach before she died
It wasn't just a full stomach. I mean they said she had consumed a lot exactly.
Maybe it would be about how much you indeed on thanksgiving now they dont say exactly what food was in her stomach, but they just said it was a lot.
Funeral home director also points out that her fingers were pruning as if they
we're submerged in water which the parents will interpret as
Somebody was washing her washing
evidence away or submerged her to get rid of the evidence and then put her clothes back on and then moved her to the car or dumped her body. Where
where it lay. I don't have a lot of explanation of why her fingers of deep rooney at that doesn't seem
normal to me, but a dead body does weird things. I don't know that seems odd. It could be
reputation because even doktor Michael barton said he didn't believe that the fingers look pretty at all
The funeral home person doesn't seem to help matters
some of their observations, so her parents are really freaking out because their thinking she's been beaten, she's been sodomized and she's been branded
all points to one explanation to them and they look at the medical examiners report their finding faults in it
there is some things left out and there definitely so you're not gonna get.
them to choose.
They're mine now that the
instigation is botched and
their daughter has absolutely been murdered.
there on that round. Now that path, they are not happy with the police
investigation, they're, not happy with the. I guess you could say the results
or the conclusion that the police have come up with the meat they ve been investigating, for, I think they said anne
overall. I twelve hundred hours chaser
on these leads, but they're they're coming up.
This was suicide and case closed parents.
Not happy with this? They hire their own private investigator, who happens to be an ex baltimore cop and he goes out and he finds
it's like an italian pastry shop. This
peace, you shop is close to where her body was found and is called the corals, hope him saying right, and he,
those inside and questions some of the employees and chosen pictures of Annie and at least to the employees, say yeah. I remember her on that
She came in with another woman and they had coffee. The
woman. She came in with looked haggard, looked weird like a junkie or sex worker, some type like that not very kept, and she was older. She was possibly in her twenties, whereas
Annie is obviously sixteen. So what was Annie doing that day with another person, possibly in it
Ellen, possibly somebody that had to do with her disappearance and murder. One of the women
who said that the woman had heavy make up and it
She had a nail polish. The
or what she'd never seen before she described it as puke, yellow the seams
very, very specific. Now
the question here that is raise is that this dispute
an investigator that was hired by them cans. He may have,
finally brought a picture of any that was put together by her family that had the word reward on it. Possum
motivation for someone to recognize her past,
while motivation to also just give them
story, I dont know if he kind of brings them
And the question is all I'm saying if he had just brought a picture of Annie with
No other information, that's one thing, but if he did bring this
amounts to a missing slash reward poster there
I don't know- maybe people will talk because their hoping to get some money, it's difficult to say so- the parents
absolutely are feeling like
you're having to investigate this case on their own cause
more pd is ineffective, even weren't, very
api with their own local department when they reported her missing because they didn't issue- and
amber alert or
raise. All the alarms which possibly could have got
witnesses to her or her car, may be found her faster. Who knows take a moment to get a word from our new sponsor price line.
Do you have a group chat where you continuously talk about summer get but never asked
go anywhere well. Summers! Finally, here it's time,
to get out of the office or your house and get a change of scenery with price line. You can save up to sixty percent on your
for hotels plus, find amazing deals on car rental, an flights, and when you save money you can explore more. That means more beautiful views and experiences.
more poolside fun, doesn't matter where you travel zones or out of the office. I always use
I signed a fine. The lowest rates out there and you should do have price line. Every trip is a big deal. So when
ready to book your next summer, adventure visit price line, dot com for the best deals
that'll help you get more out of it. Take a moment to get a word from our sponsor cove cove believes everyone deserves to feel secure home security shouldn't just be for the rich and famous. That's why they make home security systems that are easy to install, affordable and reliable. Cove arrives configured for your home and you install it.
Mere minutes, no technician required and it's easy to control from the sleek touch screen or up its professional group
systems price to be affordable and come with lifetime equipment. Warranties, faster
bonds times thing competitors because threats don't sleep, Sakharov doesn't either no contracts. Twenty four by setting friendly customer
Sport try the number one customer rated home security system order today and get fifty percent off your custom. I system get started at cove, smart doc,
The police department is telling the parents there
their sorry that they lost the daughter, but they believe that
as either suicide or an accidental death and, of course, the parents.
they don't like hearing this at all, because they feel like there
too many unanswered questions and it seems like
police department is just moving on and they're not ready to move on, and I get it again. There's some discrepancies here. If your child died,
and you were given an autopsy report- police reports that had discrepancies in them. I don't care how truthful or how
good intention. Those reports are you're, you're, gonna, question everything and now beer, everything's bs in the police, aren't helping you that's just the way. It is because it's a highly emotional ties
the police department maintains that the medical examiners report indicating-
light. A cane toxicity is the key here
so the parents they want. Second and third opinions. They go to other experts to see what they think about this and
one of them is doctor, Michael barton, who is a
world renowned forensic pathologist? I would do the same thing I'll be right there in their shoes. Getting a second opinion.
Oh he's. Thinking about this he's looking over the autopsy and he determined
Just doesn't seem right, because one five ounce bottle of this back
and wouldn't have enough light or cane to poison her, not in his opinion. They also get a senator to help put some pressure on law enforcement to get more information. They had already engaged the f b. I at this.
went so Senator chuck grass we write, some letters for them gets
a little bit more information and in they reach out to bear who produces back teen. So when the police question bear, they didn't ask enough questions and how much it takes. They just asked
much as a bottle have end? Ok, we got our answer and we know that she had,
a keener system. So we're done- and I think
it depends on how you look at this view. Looking at it as the police didn't ask how many bottles would it take well
I think the police know that it will take more than one bottle. I think the matter
we examined or knows. I would probably more than one bottle to get those levels. I think the police just assume that she had multiple bottles, but her parents are good.
Going with the little information that they ve been provided, which is the police believe. One bottle will kill you and they think the police are
or mistaken and
and they should have asked bear how many bottles is a take and therefore would take more. There wasn't more found, so they should keep investigating.
I think it's a serious miscommunication here. Well, twenty twenty covered this case and the
actually talked with doktor bill mannion and he's a forensic pathologist. He look
into this, and he believes that one bottle it could kill. You exactly
there's nothing really for human consent,
and in this bottle it's for topical. Only I
to reiterate this, but the parents
slowly believe that she had one bottle in her possession
and that it was the same one. It wouldn't even
the full amount it wouldn't be five ounces. It would be much less than she had her ears pure
months before, at least two months before and
is using this consistently on a daily basis
I don't know how many sprays or in a bottle, but a shoe, you was using it twice a day on each ear at least four sprays a day go with that when I used to use benaco I'll go through that my two weeks I mean it's one of those questions and I think the parents could
wrong when they say she had one bottle at it. Now we only recovered one bottle from the scene. So we have
agreements going on here between the authorities and
in the parents and their investigators and their experts. It's almost like.
The trial going on here without a real trial. You know I mean yes, the parents are trying to bring forth
their information and the police. As well
fbi who they later meet with? They just attempt to shut down the parents. Now this
kind of reaches ahead. In my opinion, when the parents, through their due diligence, they're doing the best
they can t get all the information they finally get. The case file,
its hands them. I think on a flash drive yeah this
more or less that senators doing again in him, putting pressure on the authorities and getting them to turn over more evidence so
there's some reductions and things, but one of the things they
discover. Is that
their opinion. This is early on that the police depart
is trying to figure out a way to get the parents to settle down. In other words,
They have already decided. This must be a suicide
an accidental death, and yet the parents keep calm
to them and saying someone
at our daughter. So they're trying to come up with a way to
get them to basic
they go away like her
do we appease them? So
the leave us alone and even talk.
in these reports. They talk about how some
act as anyone work the case because they want to deal with these parents there very tenacious parents
This is kind of upsetting, because in this reminds me of the kendrick johnson case, where ok
so the police feel that they know what happened. They have their theory. They feel like the case can be closed, but you of parents who have lost
iled so yeah, maybe they don't accept your theory. Is that the way
treat them, though, is to be dismissed
of them. That's something that law enforcement.
depends on who you get the bedside
and who can be really bad and very dismissive when you're,
out every day, patrolling finding
Bodies arresting portable people. You become numb to it. This is
all that world and your callous
you don't know how you come off. The somebody you their whole world now is destroyed because their daughters dead
Is it possible, though, that the parents just took the wrong way? I mean,
on the police side there, just trying to
their job, they feel like they completed the investigation and now they're trying to work other cases, and yet the parents keep coming back.
Act to them and asking questions and trying to give them information when they're moving on well, they got the f b I to investigate and the f b I look
over law enforcement findings in the fbi's findings, were they concurred with the police findings.
But again this is all law enforcement. So now the parents, I'm sure, feel like well. Of course, they would find on the side of law enforcement because they're law enforcement to well possibly, but the parents wrote about this
article irish, I should say Mary Jane Annie's mother did and she talked about how they
go to this building this cold. Looking building
with the fbi and as
Fbi was question further and further about different aspects of the case. The parents felt as though
They actually didn't know as much as they led them to believe that they did so. The parents left there
are pretty much getting sent off, hurt and probably feeling about lost, because this is the fbi and it felt to them as if the
b, I basically said yeah, we looked over the their case files.
We feel like they did inadequate investigation. So there's nothing to see here. Well, the pair
sorry eating living breathing this case they know,
inside and out. So you get some fbi,
pr guy who's, trying to appease them. Well, yeah, that's probably not gonna go well, we can t.
hang on with the different findings and the different experts in what they said in this person said that that's were rat,
three years after the finding of Annie's body,
remember our friend darnel can law well, he
ends up murdering another woman and stealing her car. Now he is,
murdering la kisha player, who happens to be his girlfriend and he shoots her so darnell original person who found Annie's body and stole her car.
has been accused and charged with murdering another woman and stealing her car, though, of course the pair
latch onto this and think there might be
this darnel kin law, then we had suspected war,
I was my reaction to what I heard it was likely. What's that? No disguise no good and the absolutely had something to do with this. So
the authorities go and visit D. Arnault can law a core
to the news that the parents here, how do they start this short little interview with our now
well. They seem pretty dismissive and their initial interaction with em right. The way they come often
interview with there now is they basically sorrow by saying that
and his parents are letting this go so were basically obligated to come and talk with you like we,
already know. You had nothing to do with this, but here we are missing
that just murdered his girlfriend. It's on
like they're on his side? I I yeah. I would think that they could press a little harder here
so for these parents who have lost their child and don't feel like they're getting ants
if they don't feel like law enforcement,
is taking the death of their
god or seriously. It's like the hits just keep coming yet again, a guy and his friends coming across a car with
a day girl in it dragging your body and in taking up the car. That seems really
vicious now add in that same
I is now sitting
I'm bars for thirty years for murdering his girlfriend, but the way the parents frame it
Is he murdered a woman and solar power? Well, that sounds
very similar to their daughters situation, but
it was somebody he knew any shorter, not quite the same situation. Do you think that the
priorities, look at d, arnault and think well. If he had actually had anything to do with the debate,
as of animal can he would have said so right because he did confess to killing lucretia player. That's the thing is
a serving a thirty year sentence. He probably thinks he can get out
twenty on good behaviour. So why would he confessed anything else, but do you really think you anything to do with her death thou
I beg you, look like a really shady character, but if your pressing
to give a yes or no? I can't do that right now. If we're gonna go with the murder theory,
here. We have a,
sixteen year old, runaway but
she running away or what
meeting somebody who was
their travelling with her or giving her directions. If we're gonna go with the pair
theory of that. She was forced
then to sex trafficking. Shoe
with this woman, add a pastry
coffee shop and then
later on found dead, with branding honour on her leg. If you want a thing
Darnell did it then great? If not, then she was murdered or poisoned
Four doornail found her and he just happens to be the the lucky guy that came across her body that
I guess that would be my summary of the murder theory right pay. They attacked her. They raped her Andy poisoned her with light again came, I mean
self have never heard of somebody murdering somebody else with lady came, but
then again, I had never heard of somebody taking their own life with lie to Cain either. So I kind of half dozen one six, the other right now. If we go
the suicide theory or accidental death, she had written, not one but several notes
Talking about how unhappy she was talking about,
wants to ended all talking about sort of spontaneous,
destructive behaviour like I'm, going to run away and start over, I'm a sixteen
old, who doesn't know anything about life, but I'm gonna take off in a car with a thousand bucks
who knows where I think you can get on the highway? You can end up anywhere. I don't think you really have to be good with directions. In fact, the worse, you are with directions,
more likely. You are gonna, show
up in the middle of a bad neighborhood. We need to talk about these notes, because there were a couple of notes that were crumpled up underneath her bed and when they looked at these notes, meaning the parents, the investigators Annie, had crossed out what she had written. There were large axes, essentially,
on these notes, and these were the notes that indicated that she wanted to enter on life. Those were
ample drawn under her bed, the note that was left on top
was the one where she admitted that she had considered suicide
but then she realised that she could just run away and she said that she loved life and she was re alive, so
she didn't want her parents coming after, but that she would be ok
it's a runaway note, its I'm leaving and
leave me alone, and you go back.
listen to interviews with the parents. They will say she was very high
be she had a circle of friends
and, and she was living of
a good life. She didn't train she didn't smoke.
she didn't go out, she went to school and she came home
and she was very reliable. She always called her mom after school.
she enjoyed going to church. She believed in her faith, which was she was catholic, so
This is very much at odds with the
girl that her parents paint a picture of four you. According to these,
says. She's. Writing she has depression.
and she's anorexic yeah, all due respect to the parents, had gone through a nightmare, but
they don't seem to really accept that they had a troubled child. Now I get that you have your perceptions, I get
that, you have what you want to remember your child ass, but their own emission is. She was a happy go lucky kid.
And it's like these notes, don't even matter which she wrote is inconsequential
they were, I'm leaving and I'm gonna go start my new life and they completely disregard the
I am unhappy with life, I'm anorexic and I want to kill myself.
that that just doesn't seem to even click with the parents at all. When we discuss this before
mental illness is not something that most people really understand. Worried are recognised
We see that all the time with our justice system, but any herself
that she was anorexic in these notes and
erects ia, carries fort
times the risk of death as major depression, and it said that the mortality rate of people with anorexia is more than five deaths per thousand
if the people, the deadliest mental illness, if you look at the mortality rate exactly it's very lethal, I look at. She fully admits that she's anorexic, but she's found with a full stomach of food. It's a little off here.
Now, I'm thinking I've interviewed guess on my peripheral podcast about bolivia
she says, she's anorexic, but eating disorders can blend. I'm thinking this bottle of back team,
a lot of the sea
in terms of overdose or symptoms of poisoning are it can make you throw up
no how much she drank. I think she drank more than a bottle. I think she was probably doing it over time.
and she might have been doing it to purge it's a theory. Is this an idea?
I say this is what happened, but I see
lotta people say, murder or suicide. I think it
I've, been accidental, she might have
In trying to to purge- and she was using this to do it- I could be totally office, not if we think back to the
I witnessed reports who said they saw her eating. She was at the bakery in little italy who
Maybe she had
then going round and eating and then, like you said, maybe she wanted to purge. And since she had,
been using backing for a number of months. Maybe she had found that she could.
induce vomiting with it and would use that to purge. After all, just look at pictures of Annie
They even have a picture of Annie the day before she went missing, so they have a picture from october thirtieth she's anorexic, it's pretty obvious with any eating disorder. It just causes
havoc with your body in your system. The only reason why I think she drank more than one bottle, which caused her death is because of the amount of light a cane they found in our system. I wouldn't be surprised if one bottle would have killed her because, if you're going in the red, if you're starving yourself, if you're not
directed all these factors also near a lot more susceptible to poisoning to drugs, to other things, I'm just thrown
out their kind of talk and out loud, not saying that
I come down, but it's just an angle that
haven't read anywhere. I think that it could have been accidental, but with going with all the suicide notes,
now you're back too. While it might have been intentional parents have lots of issues with. Why did she go to baltimore to do this? You know a lot of people say. Why did she do it this way? Why did she drink back teen to take her own life? That's just weird!
No one would do that. Why would anyone take their own life mean? That's you're, not thinking logically anymore you're,
going against all self preservation,
an instinct, so I gotta throw out
what you would logically would or wouldn't do at that point. If that's your and go, this episode is brought to you by progressive. Have you tried the name, your price till? Yet it works just the way it sounds
you tell progressive how much you want to pay for car insurance and I'll show you coverage options that future budget. It's easy to start a quote,
and you'll be able to find a rate that works for you. It's just one of the many
as you can save, with progressive, get your quote today, a poker.
Dot com and see why four out of five new otto customers recommend progressive, progressive casualty, insurance company and affiliates price and coverage match limited by state law.
Why wouldn't it be logical, though, if her parents are very controlling and she needed
get away to do this in her baron
didn't know about this, or they don't admit to it. I don't know if that's a saving,
this thing or if they just have no clue what's going on in their daughters, live, and I feel portable saying that, because they ve gone through hell, but from an outside point of view, a load that clear,
we have already talked about how people had said that they believe the parents
we're very controlling. After all, she didn't get to go
where mean she lily went to school, she would come home, the parents do everything
wow what she was up to accept for, of course, her depression anorexia. As far as we know they never let on that. They did know about that, but corny them. She was happy. She was a great kid, but she take
soft ngos to baltimore maryland and for me and other points,
reality is that she wanted to go and live a little bed just because she said
that she decided not to take her own life doesn't mean that she didn't change your mind out there, so it could be either way and that's where it seems like the police could be correct. Either
She did change her mind. You decide to take her life or
as justin has theorized. Maybe she did accidently take too much back teeth.
The parents say that they ran a task to see what other sites
since as she may have consumed and that if she had taken multiple bottles of backing, that other things would have shown up, that are ingredients in backing, but that they don't find those things so the pair
there are very much in the camp that their daughter must have been poisoned with light. Ok, not back team, but light o king issues forced to drink
it or was injected with it, something that effect or somebody put unlike next a dad drink. You know with coca cola or something else or alcohol
they're, trying to explain how she had alcohol in our system, which amounted to just about a drink yeah. It was point zero for somethin. So again
and if you're looking for a straight answer,
this case, you're, probably not going to find it. It's going to come,
as to how much do you
actor. In her aunt,
axia and her depression and
much. You weigh the words of her parents. I'm your parents say she would drew or sheep
he took a thousand dollars some clothes. She had a list of to do
things on her hand, little things like that, they're like people that are going to take their own life. Don't do this and I'm thinking you don't know what depression is. I don't think they quite understand.
Yeah. I wouldn't feel comfortable trying to explain her depression. I think everyone's depression is probably somewhat unique to them and how they deal with it, especially if it's coming to a head. If she's writing these notes that indicate that she was ready to enter on life, then I think that's a pretty big factor and I know one of the three
he's just and I talked about before even start recording was. How can we come down on a side on this case because
everywhere. I look everyone's doing that everyone saying this is different:
a suicide. This is an accidental death who seems kind of rare and oppose I read or that she was murdered and yeah. I just
have a problem coming down to firmly on
one side because one we don't have all the evidence. I feel
without having other bottles of vaccine
or a source of this little kane that it's really really difficult to say what happened to her sure I can say,
her injuries that she sustained problem
it happened when she
where do a seizure, something if she was poor
and she had a seizure, she could have hurt herself or if she wasn't quite deceased when those guys founder and they tossed her behind the dumpster. She
I sustained injuries there. We also don't know what happened to her body. While it was behind the dumpster. Anything could have happened. It was not like. We had a camera there in this jay on her ankle
they explain it as levity, the pooling of the blood, and it just happened to pull that way. Possibly her leg was, you know,
cross on or other leg. So I just
around the impression she wasn't wearing saw
that had a big j on them. So I don't think there was any kind of clothing that caused it.
But I don't know if I looked at the picture in the pictures, not very good quality. It does look like a j, but the bottom of the J doesn't look
could be. Paradise were looking and were seeing a pattern that really isn't there, but I personally don't buy it. But maybe if I had a better like a higher quality picture,
an image to look at them. Maybe I will change my mind, but the quality of the picture
I see online is not good enough. I believe that the parents have kind of messed with the pictures a little bit
to change what we see but just to lower the quality, because these pictures bother them and they have admitted as much so it's difficult for them to share all of the information they have, because its painful for them
The question, just I mean, do we need to come down on a side on this. I feel like if we just put out all of the theories
people can make up their own mind if they want, or they can just real
eyes that, in the end, what matters most here is
that we know she was anorexic and we know she had depression and for all the control.
They had over her life and be
involved in what activity she was up to
It seems like they missed the boat on this and for
Be writing notes or just look at her she's anorexic,
she's under way she hasn't eating disorder. This is
real concern, and I think that is the question I am left with is why couldn't they have recognised what was gone
I'm with her before she ran away from home. Because again, if she was happy at home, she wouldn't have run away yeah. I
just the other day. A really had asked me how I felt about this case and I said, leaning toward suicide, but every day this week I felt differently. I dont know I think it's possible. She could have been murdered, but we can't prove it. I think it's very possible she took her own life or accidentally took her life to really hard to prove with what we have left and that's the problem, and I know parents,
who children have tested positive for math, but then lied and said: o a suit of fat or of some allergy medicine and the prince, like ok, I've seen them
I'll, be in my own life, extreme denial and when it comes to Annie's pair.
And I think there is a little bit of that happening now. I don't think they are bad
parents. I dont think that I don't know
or overbearing or not, but they definitely have a misperception of their daughter,
and I understand why she looks like a good kid, but she had problems and they don't wanna except those things
I believe they lost their daughter today she ran away by then it was too late.
P, I and the medical examiner that they hired they still
we'll come down on. They think it was foul play, but they disregard D
the sexual assault, the sodomy they disregard
a lot of the believes that the parents have, if you're, connecting the dog-
it's in believing every single piece of this war
the sudden. Not all the dots should be involved or included, because there isn't a lot of evidence for some of these
gains one I think thing I'd like to talk about is Keith ab low, he's
psychiatrist and he talked about the method. The cause of death
according to medical examiner she
used, what was available, which was the backing. It had light, ok it and that's why
they found in her system. That will explain why she died. Keith
blow said it stood
in the imagination, to believe that a person intent on dying which choose this obscure and extreme.
The uncertain method of attempting to take her life, one just
The medical examiner said she used what was available. So it's not that obscure for her.
and also when some of them
anton dying. I mean
out some of the methods that they use, you don't know if you jump off, if you're going to die, some people jumped from just a few floors up. People
when they reach that state seem to again
use whatever method is at hand and
times. Their methods. Confuse us
Don't know why they would and their life in a way that they do, but I find it inches
that he thinks that this just seem so unlikely when of the items
she had with her. This was,
what was at hand was her back teen so sheep,
ran away from home. She has admitted to
lot of issues, depression, her
life was obviously not on this.
straight and narrow anymore. She was in a desperate state. The parents don't seem to want to accept that which that's a problem I have, but when she goes out- and she finds herself
strange place, maybe she's thinking, she's gonna start or life over, but it doesn't work out the way she wants
There is a lot of information and details about
the way she was found which was found with her, but I can't get over the just the fact that she ran away from home
she had light a cane in her system. She had a bottle of
acting that as lie to cain in at the top was removed and it appeared she'd drank from it all of a sudden everything else. I I guess I'm kind of feeling, like the police here, everything else seems pretty inconsequential.
but all the other things do hold a lot of weight because they make you question her parents,
have found some solace in this they connected with
the key issue: players, mother woman
whose murdered and actually gave her Annie's car the white bobo?
They didn't want the car anymore. They were gonna have crushed, but she needed a car. She was a need, so they
their daughters, car away- that's, I guess it's
a silver lining, its its closure. In my mind, of
were we're. Moving on a little bit here were able to let go and help somebody else, and I hope they keep following that path, while originally they had kept them
are and were hoping that they could get investigators to take another look at it, but by letting the cargo.
That is, then letting go a little bit, I would say, but I dont think that they have completely let go because the mother is still out there. She still talking about this and she gets on twitter now and then and she's definitely try to connect with other parents who have lost children under mysterious circumstances,
the
when you're scrolling through social media. How can you tell what's real anything can be posted online without being fat chat, but if you heard about the secret to permanent weight loss, wouldn't you give it to follow.
Tommy sucker brought founder of the trendy, high fibre effect or diet has celebrity followers, including megan, kelly and supermodel olivia cocoa. But allegations of troubling side effects with a diet began to surface and people started a question: does she selling powder or power Emily jealous a popular fashion, influence her saudis allegations and put the diet on blast to her own large social following she launched a crusade to expose tanya any factor diet. What was once an online feud escalated
into the real world resulting in threats, lawsuits and a whole lot of drama from wondering. Comes a new series about wealth, wellness and influence listened a fed up on apple podcast, amazon, music, spotify or you can listen early, an ad free by joining, wondering plus in the wonder YAP.
Transcript generated on 2022-08-27.