« The Generation Why Podcast

Death of Colonel Shue - 304

2018-11-04

April 16, 2003. San Antonio, Texas. Colonel Michael Philip Shue said goodbye to his wife and was supposed to drive to Lackland Air Force Base where he worked. But he was seen driving erratically on the highway away from both his work and his home later on. The Colonel's car then smashed into a tree, killing him. But he sustained injuries prior to the accident that suggested that he may have been the victim of a crime. Some of these injuries included: duct tape on his wrists and ankles, a six inch wound down the center of his chest and his nipples had been cut off. A world renowned medical examiner surprisingly deemed the Colonel's death a suicide. After Col. Shue's wife hired two other experts a different picture came into focus. One of abduction and torture. What exactly happened to Col. Shue? Was he suicidal? Or did someone want him dead? Can Justin & Aaron get to the bottom of this mystery?

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This is an unofficial transcript meant for reference. Accuracy is not guaranteed.
Before I start the show today, I want to run a promo from another podcast I'd list, to? This is actually happening. That was one of the few podcast out there in the world. That room Winds me up the peripheral so without further ado. we live our everyday lives with a sense that we know who we are, what we want and what will happen. But at some point many of us will experience something unthinkable, a massive unpredictable disruption that rattles our sense of self at the core. Who are we then? How do we recover? What do we become? Ooh, I'm wit missile dying,
and these are the questions at the heart of this- is actually happening. A podcast featuring the uncanny extraordinary, true stories of events that have dramatically altered the lives of ordinary people, with riveting accounts of near death, experiences, traumatic, childhood events and spiritual transformation. And he will meet son who was shot by his own father, a woman who is kidnapped by a fake police officer and a man who woke up in the morgue. I didn't know where the other half of me was. I didn't know what his name was really was. I knew nothing about him all of a sudden within one hundred metres of your house. That's where the worst thing happens. It's suddenly the world becomes different. You can't go back to who you were you think you know what's going on, but you don't you think you have control, but you don't you can find. This is actually happening on your favorite podcast app as well as soundcloud and spotify
Rita com, where this is actually happening. Dotcom, I don't matter, doing good just and how are you been better? now like me now, my dogs doing better. She got run over by a car on tuesday, but it is pretty scary day and then twitter attacked, but what's going in that way
Didn't you actually witness it to you? I was actually driving home and she get out every now, and then she is able to escape because she's the size of a squirrel social dig, a hole under the fence or something and she hasn't escaped in months, but I was dry and down. My street and people drive way too fast in my neighborhood, and I saw this little black dot running across the road and I knew it was my dog. An oncoming traffic ran over her. Luckily, none of the time here's her just the bumper and she so small that she just rolled underneath the under carriage and tore off. Over toenails and gave her a concussion? It was pretty pre horrible, as I ran up honor, as she was covered in blood and stiff. As aboard. I thought, she'd been run over like by attire. She wasn't responsive until she bit me when I picked
webpage. That's what dogs do when they're in pain and you touch them, but the driver did they didn't wait for you, they just laughed. Oh, they didn't even slow down man. They just kept going. So now is mia my week an animal hospital. When you the other day, I was talking with nina from already gone and she's launching this new podcast, its don't talk to strangers really interesting, because it's a long form podcast multiple episodes. one case and it has to do with the oakland county. Child killer which is a case from the middle eight seventys in Michigan. The different players this case, the suspects victims and their stories, and and even of it, who wasn't regionally originally identified. I think this is going to be a interesting, listen for people so check it out very, very curious to hear that also framed for people who are running in season. One is over. There are ten episodes out there.
Go check it out, framed an investigative story. Thank you for listening. Oh, I do have some else to add. I have a very special guest showing up on my next peripheral episode. I'm not gonna tell you. Oh, my, I think people are going to freak out, so that's very cool. I we have a mysterious death case, which I am very happy to take a break from all the chaos and mayhem and murder, although it's possible murder quote unquote, but I'm excited about tonight's case. So what are we tonight at tonight. We're talking about the death of colonel philip, Michael shoe and pay dedication out to thinking sideways? Could they covered this? Allow go let'S tongue a bit about Who colonel shoe was. He was born in july of nineteen forty eight and raised in brookfield ohio annie.
Graduated one thousand nine hundred and seventy from the university of wisconsin, with a bachelor of science degree in pre med and enter the united states air force. This case has a lot to do with the air force. So if your military thank you for your service, moving ahead in nineteen. Seventy eight he completed training as a physician, assist in Cincinnati, ohio and Started working in private practice until accepted and nineteen eighty two medical school at right, state university and by for he was he then into a psychiatric residency programme. It right, patterson air force, base medical center in dayton ohio. This is, it who was very good at what he did during his resin. He training he was away, the position of chief resident eighty eight received the outstanding psychiatry resident award. I mean just the awards go on and on. He ended up getting his
there's degree in public health from university of texas in San Antonio, in nineteen. ninety nine so alive education, a lot of experience, colonel who entered the military nineteen seventy this was I who spent his lifetime in them, terry with the air force and. Was assigned to different bases throughout his career and what kind of get to that as well in about his marriages, his first marriage Was torn by the name of Nancy and he was fills first wife- they were high school sweethearts, and she was a year older than he was they got me in nineteen. Seventy Nancy was, six months pregnant but was having. Farewell married to fill filled. Didn't I mean I think film knew that the sun was not his yet he never for a dna test? And you know people have
her reasons for why they do what they do, and I won't tend to know why Phil took this. I guess not action, blue, Perhaps he really liked having a sun family matter to him. That's just a guess: in nineteen. Eighty eight, the family moved to fort walter beach Florida, his wife nancy, who The teacher spent her time at home with their son Her son proceeded to get into a bit of trouble yeah. He was hanging out with the wrong crowd drug dealers. You know typical teen ray yeah be the sun. I dont know if the earlier belief that it and his son factored into this at all by because of jeffrey constantly getting into trouble nancy and fills marriage was starting to become strained and by nineteen ninety they were. together. I guess you could say document only the way I look at it is fill
is staying married nancy, but it's really an arrangement, so that Nancy can receive fills me terry salary. While he's you know making his money off side jobs so he's helping to take care of her. She was taken care of their son. Nancy went back to work. She became a licensed counselor, but it's like she was having some money issues, which is you know, it's not surprising. time, there's there's a device. Or is there a separation money? Be the real issue now two thousand she borrowed forty five thousand dollars against one of the life insurance policies. They had to pay for her schooling, at least It was for schooling and not just to pay down credit card debt over nothing, but see that something that does happen, though Nancy ends up accruing dead,
I will. I will add this in america- that's come yeah. This is normal. That's just what happens when you go to college and you have to live while you're goin, so your crew debt. Now we need to set up more of the family dynamics here because to understand What's going to come in the episode here, we're gonna have to set up the players Jeff shoe, nancy and fell. Son became a pilot for delta. Any flew commuter flights and he made decent money, but even with that jeff up filing for bankruptcy. In two thousand to and had over a hundred and twenty, thousand dollars in debt. Now, maybe this my seem a little high. They said Jeff. Is this the way Phil saw it fill thought that Jeff was reckless with his money and Jeff was and as is he saw it not responsible, and because of that-
he decided to remove him from his will. If your child is on the hook for over a hundred thousand dollars, when you have the whole, is this actually my kid and he's it screw up. I get it now. If you give him any money, it'll discus tossed away, it just enables this lifestyle that is living in over people to save up money. And then to pass it on to their children, is kind of special because not everyone is able to do that I guess, if you ve, taken care of you, I answered in Europe able to pass money on that idea that going to go to someone who has never been able. Save any money or be responsible within it. and of income yeah, I guess I could see that as being a real issue, but this causes some friction. I bet you imagine oh yeah, oh yeah! This is not going well between
nancy and fill there on the rocks anyways, so when he's take- his son off the well. This is just added fuel to the fire. Nancy and Phil, legally separated. Ninety ninety three, just months later, Phil begins dating a woman by the name of tracy and they end up being married in nineteen. Ninety eight just five years later, tracy's also in the military, and they hit it off. And they have a lot of similar interests and similar goals in life. So it seems like the perfect match. They end up moving to alabama into that. And three they get home together, But it's around this time, Jessen emilius its literally, next day after they put down there. payment for this home in alabama that something terrible happens, here's a
quick overview, but but we're gonna break this down in more detail, but that morning phil will leave early for work and his vehicle be spotted along highway. Ten. It'll be seen going into the center median where it's at sea area and then going back and forth and between light poles until it hits like a major did it or Canada hump in the dirt actually catches air, so it's kind of causing damage to the vehicle, and then he gets back on the road, and witnesses are now following him because they see this guy driving completely erratically and they follow him. for several more miles. Phil will actually pass all of the exits of his own town.
So he's driving away from work and he's not exiting to go home, so completely opposite direction, and then they watch his car corinne off the highway again clip a tree in the spinning. The car sideways any smashes into another tree that comes in through the driver side, door, killing phil instantly. So you think hey. Maybe he just hadn't had his morning cup of coffee. Maybe he didn't make it to work, maybe snapped. We can wonder what happened. What we do know happened was he did bring his wife coffee. You know to her when she was in her bed that more before he left. So I I believe they both had coffee, You know some might wonder, did he speak his coffee? Maybe he was drinking. This is like what's wrong with aunt. I am I right yeah, it's unexpected. This is this, is
a lifelong military man he's a medical man, and so what is going on or why is he going off the road like this? This is a responsible individual took his son out of his will because of his irresponsibility. So why would he be doing this and obviously, maybe there's something else at work here. Just in what did they find when they went to him after this accident, one of the medical team see when they examined him. Here's where it gets creepy first thing they find, which was obvious, was he had duct tape bound around his wrists and his ankles duct tape around his wrists were like wristbands conor wrapped around, but then there was extra tape about forty five inches on each risk, so
you can imagine if maybe he was bound with his hands behind him or bound with his hands on arm chair arrests. He also had duct tape around his ankles. Although it was merely wrapped around his ankles, it didn't appear to have that same length of tape that had been broken. Then they find that he had A piece of his ear removed, one of his pinkies, had been cut off at the knuckle and he had this long, not quite incision down his chest, but more of a laceration like somebody had full laid him. It was six point two five inches long so they see that he has is beady uses paddle dress uniform on, but underneath the the button down is-
Who is the the brown teacher still has this t shirt on, but it's been cut through and that's where this big long what I'm gonna call gash almost his at, but when they pull this you're back a little bit. More They notice that his nipples have also been removed. Now you could say they ve been surgically, remove but I don't want to insinuate that this was a surgery it looks more like somebody just cut them off. His boots were caked in mud and They found a white powdery substance around them. Also he had cash is from pocket, but his dog tags and wallet found he had a small flash lie in the cargo pant pocket. He, only carries a pager because he works in the medical field.
Who was seen an autopsy photos, but never collected and analyzed for evidence. His palm pilot was collected from his residence, but he didn't have it on him. Blood is found under his fingernails but was never collected and he did have a straight razor in the car and also a set of latex gloves or possibly just one lay text glove but me there, the straight razor had any blot on it. Nor was the glove that they found been used or had anyone put it off and so it was just a glove that hadn't? You know just a fresh glove now an interesting thing about the duct tape Was they didn't find any fingerprints on it? So his not anybody else's? That's weird. They didn't find
Any cutting instrument in the car, like a scalpel that could have been used to cut make these incisions whatever they found a straight razor, but nothing was on a blood also, they didn't find the severed piece of finger or his nipples or any other body part. Now these I know it's a little gruesome these body parts were not. The these injuries were not sustained. Due to the crash they were cut. It was obvious. They'd been sliced off. The crash merely caused massive head damage to him, so that's what he died from, but he didn't die from this mutilation, so guy rex his car
he's been horribly mutilated and has duct tape bound around his wrists and his ankles. What does the medical examiner say erin, What's its thing here is that doctor Vincent de mayo, who is the chief medical examiner and a world renowned one at that? Did the autopsy And he said based on, information that they got from the autopsy and the information were given from the air force and from other sources. They say this was a suicide. Woe interesting when you think about the duct tape. You think about the injuries that this post sustained and you think that soundly someone tortured them right, but according who d miles office. This
was a suicide because they found lighter, came in his system. That's the primary part of the same here so light a cane is a local. It can be ensured, it into a site, so me or if you cut your arm or your leg and you need stitches. Sometimes I hate it with light a cane first and then give you the stitches Colonel shoe had actually wrote himself a script for topical ladder, keen weeks or months before this incident, but delighted, kane found in a system, was different than what you'd find and topical solution. So at that
point you would have to inject the lighter came, but there weren't any injection points found. But again, if you were to be arrow, cutting off your nipple in you injected yourself in the nipple and then you sites it off with that off escape the injection point. I think that's where Dr De is saying, because he explained it as it would have been injected in each nipple and in the middle of the chest. So if you're cut there and cut there and there, then we don't have the injection sites anymore, with no fees or minimums banking with capital. One is the easiest decision in the history of decisions, even ease Here then deciding to listen to another episode of your favorite podcast, with no, we're draft ease, isn't he The decision that banking re imagined, what's in your wallet term supply
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Maybe that's why you know. Luckily, in this case, we aren't just left with Vincent de miles. Word in this is me as Tracy who was married to colonel shoe at the time? He wasn't going to let any one call this a suicide, because she knows this man and she said He would not have done there. So what she does. She says: I'm going too far and someone else? You can take a look at this and I would call this sum lock, but they are able to get another world renowned, pathologist, doktor, Cyril whack, to take a look at this case and he come to a completely different conclusion. We have no injection sites, we have no injection site identified by the pathologist and the original autopsy now
that he can find no needle or syringe, found and no cutting instruments of any kind to be attributed to colonel shoe think he's more or less saying that its undetermined. You can't say that this was suicide. Doctor. What goes on to say that the lighter came levels that were present in doktor shoes, body weren't and after numb himself from the pain, so if he had injected it, this is a doctor doing this supposedly, he didn't give himself enough. if someone else, they didn't give him enough to know himself from the pain either which I'm gonna go with it. This was intentional and he trying to make this look a murderer and then take his own life? Maybe possibly he wasn't injecting himself with a lot hoping that it wouldn't show up in a test, but I don't know
He also had a high level of benadryl on a system but maybe he had allergies regardless MT have benadryl, he had in a system, I think was a little high, so it might be part of the reason why He was driving a radically if I found somebody bound with them tape and incisions over their body pieces missing. Just because I found ladder, canada system wooden automatically make me just disregard everything and all the evidence that will talking about now, Tracy didn't just hired doktor sarawak. She also hired another medical examiner by the name of Dr Nancy haley and she's an expert in pathological biology and biochemistry and when she looked at this case, She started to see all the problems with the investigation, so the investigation concludes with This was suicide, but how can
arrived at suicide. She says without ruling out all of the evidence. And so she said there was blood found on the duct tape, but they didn't do Many tests on that blood to determine who belong to- and this is You know on down the line, so blood, no testing. There were two grey hairs found stuck to the duct tape. That was on the top of one of his boots and they didn't test that either the original forensic pathologists who when this is a suicide. He says that this man did these things to himself and summit
evidence he will use is around that six and a quarter inch incision down his chest. There were other smaller cuts to the side and he calls these hesitation marks where, if you were going to cut yourself or going to hurt yourself, you might hesitate, you might do it a little but before you do the big gash or freak out. He also will say the reason why he was doing this slalom between the light poles when he was driving radically was again hesitation to his own demise. He didn't have enough guts to himself into a little doktor. Hayley also pointed out that there was blood found underneath curve, shoes fingernails by she couldn't any evidence that it was tested either whom nice
one thing that she may have uncovered, and this is with help from Tracy from Tracy shoe. She said that the blight occur in being found in his system could be explained because Tracy said that the day before the colonel died, he put some light again cream on his chest because it was so itchy he. It was because he had had a shave for a stress test, and so he adds that kind of a reaction. So he put the light came on there and since he was caught on the chest like that, and that's a six point, two five inch gash there, the lighted, kane likely went into the wound, and that would explain the amount of wider came found in a system now when they-
claim that it wasn't the topical cream and had to be injection because other things warrant found. Well, how do we know other things were found? Did they test for it? I mean this is kind of the question they didn't test for a lot of things, so I dont just buy into this wasn't from the cream, and I had to have been from an inn. action does it's not that clear cut to me at least the achieve and went on to say that the cream they re using was called, see a she used. If or spider veins near her eyes where her husband, Phil used it for rosacea normally, but talking about testing I mean we can harp on the blood on the duct tape, the hairs on the duck
the blood under the fingernails justin, I mean he's found in his car. What do they do that car? Oh, it's not even looked at really they just throw it away, so they you know, They don't really test anything. Here I mean even his pager, they don't take a look at it and then also lose his phone with. This is because the entire thing was treated as an accident had not a crime scene, the state patrol I patrol they just came on the scene and were checking it all out and not investigating they were just doctor Meanwhile, when the investigator shows up he's hey guys, you need to take a step back and get out of my crime scene, but at that point sovereignty been tainted. Okay, so they're. Looking at it as an act
didn't, but a lot of people would look out and say he was obviously tortured before the accident and what couldn't there in evidence at this accident scene to help explain what happened to him before the accident will. If the car was not impounded taken in and analyzed who knows what there could have been in the We don't know if he was actually abducted worthy of doctors in the car, with him with a gun to his head. Would they have left any sort of evidence. Any sort of fibres did they get him out of the car and then do this stuff, and then he escaped and jumped in his car and took off this. a lot of questions here that are not going to ever be answered? tracy shoe is understandably upset about the whole situation. Her huh been died that morning and this is on April sixteenth- two thousand three- she didn't
and out about the accident until three thirty in the afternoon, and she didn't find out about the mutilation until much later? yeah. I was, I think it was about a month later that she found out that been mutilated from that view. I can see why she would be very, very upset about this whole thing and why she would doubt this this explanation, that it was suicide? Another the air force? Of course? reason they got to suicide. Let's just clarify this before we move on to motives the air force had a report, That was a psychological autopsy and it talked about how the colonel had some
from mental health issues? Yet it's one of those things were he'd been struggling. He had anxiety and paranoia. Ah, starting back and ninety ninety nine may of ninety nine, specifically when he received a letter, this is the contents of that letter. Dear doc. Your shoe. Please read this letter. You may be in danger. I'm writing because I remember you as such a kind and caring doctor, and I can't just sit by and not help you by telling you what I know I'll try to keep it short. So your sir, to read it. A friend of mine who worked with dawn, your ex wife husband hold me some scary things I dont know dawn or your ex wife. Sorry, I dont know her name. My friend told me they wish you were dead, so they could come
life insurance. I don't understand why they would have life insurance on you, but that's what my friend told me. My friend thinks they may actually be planning something I dont know if they would actually hurt you, but please be careful. I had to write. If I didn't, I couldn't bear the thought, something bad happening to you that I could have prevented by telling you what I heard. If I hear anything more specific, I will let you know, please be careful I'm sorry to worry you, but I just couldn't not right and find out later than I could have stopped a bad thing. From happening in this letter that you just read actually as the one that were reading from is a copy and talk.
about it being received in may ninth ninety nine by the air force. So they get a copy of this letter and they hand it to the air force for investigation. Yet after he is found dead, mutilated and wrecked his car. The air force is saying: well, he had mental problems, so he took his own life it when you the report. They they post, it seems like they just use a lot of confirmation bias and their backward engineering of this idea that he took his own life yo. So the only way you can get there is. You have to take the letters that they had said they pay, stand to the air force, you have to take those until those out and then they're saying. Yeah he's he's going crazy, so he receives is first or ninety ninety nine. He receives a few more. We weren't able to find them on
such short notice, so maybe some other people out there have copies of them. But how is he getting multiple letters over several years? I mean this guy had a long game. Going because there's claims that he wrote these letters himself because their type The theory would be here danger, and then, if he dies, someone killed him so his wife should benefit from his death, as we know, life insurance policies many times it seems like. If you take your own life, then the money's out. Here we have this letter saying you're endanger its your ex wife and she has life insurance on you. Well, why doesn't ex wife have life insurance on colonel shoe that was part of the divorce settlement? She was awarded life insurance
it was years later in the late nineties. In fact, I think it was ninety eight when he started contact Nancy any said, please get rid of the insurance. I just can't have you as a beneficiary here because it puts me in danger. In ninety nine? He got this threatening letter. this is when he really stepped it up and said. You can't have this, because you know you could have some well paid assassins, and I'm dead and your benefiting from my death, and so I think, his way of saying I'm worried. You are plotting against me and I I have this hanging over. My head is causing me too much stress, it's me in dollar policy. So it's a lot of money and people have killed for less over much. I'm gonna play a little bit of devils advocate here. Could it be possible that she had this
I've insurance policy? It just burned him so much tat. He wanted it dropped. He wanted it gone, so he forge these letters to say I'm getting threats, somebody's plodding, my demise: I need these insurance policies dropped its possible just a theory. Devils advocate right. What if he set this up to where he would make it look like he was tortured and then he got into a rack and he was hoping ok now, though, the questions- and I can say I believe that my ex wife's behind this and he can start an investigation and then he can take care of the whole issue that way right well and and instead of a long game cause. If, you go at the long game idea. Might there's no way somebody plans for years in advance this whole elaborate thing, but maybe wrote this latter gives it to
insurance company says, dropped the insurance they don't so then he ramps it up ramps. It up yeah. He did contact the insurance company and they would not drop the insurance. If you call like I said it was part of the divorce settlement, And it was her insurance on him and they said she would have to drop it. We have no power here, of course, I think in their minds or think Well, why do we need to interrupt the insurance? while they actually after his death, his new wife tracy, files, a lawsuit and she names his ex wife and the insurance company in that lawsuit. She will end up losing. But during these civil case the judge will actually say he had this, wasn't a suicide and tell them you need to redo the autopsy report,
but they don't it's obvious. This was not a suicide. This was an accident that seem to have been precipitated by torture. Let's talk about them, of here just in. Why would someone want to kill him? We just got done talking about the insurance and there is a initial letter. At least that pointed out doktor shoe that his ex wife may have been plotting against him and they didn't know how far this plot will go, but they understood that he could be danger and they were warning him which would explain why kernels was so upset his ex wife she would be, you know she would gain the most from his death site we get a million dollar settlement and it was a nasty divorce. You also have the sun with a hundred and twenty thousand dollars in debt. I have a lot of issues here. Now is current wife. She was gonna
like one point, eight million, so some people say well he had more to gain than his ex wife will Tracy and were happily married, and I know anybody say that by it, really, if you look at where the problems were, it was between fill and his ex wife and, as you just pointed out, The debt, if you add up the debt between the sun and the mother, there that's over two hundred thousand dollars of debt and probably growing, and let me just put any worries that his current wife Tracy is assessed back to bed even though she she stood to gain a lot more money, his death was deemed a suicide and she's gettin the pay out. Why would she want this investigated? Why would she keep being about my husband, was murdered if she's, the one that murdered him and
is deemed suicide. She just one how she's gotta do stay quiet, collector money, but she's been fighting this case ever since the day of his death That's not what somebody who murdered somebody does, so I just want to put one to bed real, quick myself. I know some people might still disagree with that, but Is she was the murderer she's, the one that perpetrated this? Why would she keep trying to get it to resurface and be re analyze and there was no problems according to everyone, I knew them. The problems all fell on his ex wife. Be sure to check out where the crowded sing in theatres July fifteenth based. the best selling book comes a juicy mystery full of romance murder and deadly secrets. Daisy agro jones plays kyar an outsider who europe alone in the marshes of north carolina, wench
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making different routes to work every morning and even leaving at different times the day of this accident. He left, I think, an hour earlier for work, so he's trying to throw people off that's gonna scary nancy, shoe timpson. She married Simpson. She was not very cooperative. She refused to take a polygraph which, again take those for what they are. But it is there a willingness to help out here now, she also during her deposition regarding the lawsuit. She fled the fifth twenty times at least twenty times during the deposition and she said that she and her husband were at work at the time in florida. You can go watch the deposition but it's really boring aegis, hear them ask her questions and she says this already written up quota of. I plead the fifth bob
We are on the advice of my attorney, whatever its don't bother watching it. I did and I need that twenty minutes back she has motive. She has reason- and I would say possibly opportunity and in opportunity I mean she's gone. to get a million dollars. She could a paid somebody to do this and said well once again the entrance pay out, get your money. You gotta do this. So when we come back to, was this murder or suicide, which is the going to theories out there on the inner webs, I'm more slanted and that he was attacked. I think there might be issue, though, with her being able to hire someone to do this because she was already in the lot of debt, as was her son, so this might be, and it's just a possibility.
but it may have been someone that she knew who more than willing to participate in such a plot, such as her new boyfriend. Her husband, well But it is proven that he was at work in florida at the time, but her son John the one who had the most debt and who was now the well well, he didn't cooperate either. We apparently dont have any idea where he was at the time, because this was not investigated as a crime like you would imagine it would have been there so going back and trying to ask somebody what their alibi was years before. Well, that's gone now tat. They know asked him, and we need to really set this up again. I know this sounds crazy, but if you read up on this case, the one thing people will say is was he murdered or was it a suicide budget is that really like that? Is it when people say murder they
insinuate that duty actions of others. His life was exe, Emily impacted to the point where he had this accident and died, but I'll tell you right now that would never stick in a court of law. It now her. Does we ve done cases where somebody's been beaten and then died? three days later from their injuries and there like up? Not a murder because he died from injuries, not from you know, it's like so dumb, so, yes, colonel, she was attacked. Yes, he was tortured and mutilated, but he escaped and then drove down the highway and then
I ended up having a car accident. I know a lot of people will not agree with this, but that's not murder. That's first degree assault, that's torture, but you could never prove that these people intended to murder him unless he died from his injuries. He sustained during the torture of which, I hate to say that you can't go with a murder or suicide angle. You have to just go with. Was he attacked or did he take his own life angle, because no defense attorney would ever let this fly as murder? That just wouldn't happen yeah. So this was a terrible accident, but many still ask: why would he pass out three different exits that would have taken him home. One of the growing ideas here was if he broke free. Why was being tortured or
Maybe there is a law on the torture and whoever was torturing and left the room he broke free. He got away. Where was he headed many people? think he might have been had it home to see his wife, but he passed up every exit that would have taken him home and he had a phone on him in colony. One for help. He didn't call nine when one he didn't anybody. Now. This is all used against him, saying that he took his own life how you right now. I d interviewed somebody for the peripheral that had been now held captive for four or five days and tortured and when they escaped guess what they didn't do either call nine when one they just ran and got as far away from their captors is possible, found a hotel settled in got their bearings called there,
family first and then called the police. You don't know how you're going to behave. If you just had parts of your body cut off. And I found it a little insulting that that forensic sky forensic pathologist said well. Why didn't you call anybody he had escaped, Well, it's real easy arm, armchair quarterback what somebody should or shouldn't do after they ve been tortured. Well, let's take this further. This man had a pinky finger cut off in your love cut off a six inch gash on his chest and had his nipples slice away. He was probably in alone pain. It was amazing that he could drive away at this point to me, but if he's take often getting away, maybe he's trying to flee away from the person who did this, because if that person it's a of them again. It's really game over
I mean who's to say he wasn't being pursued and he was trying to lose that individual or individuals and I get it and we can sit back and say he should have called the police. We can sit back and say that he was fleeing individuals. It goes both ways I just cannot come on, he should have done this. I also want to say there was psychological, autopsy done by the air force and it been criticized because it later They removes the letters that note of him of a threat against his life, essentially move them from the equation and so at it removes the whole life insurance. So, yeah, it reminds me of. I was recently reading about domestic violence cases, part of our research for a recent episode and one thing neck, and it is, a man can drive his wife insane and then he just point.
out everyone look how she's acting, but then there is none of prior information out there about what he had been doing. So in this, if you say yeah, he was being Form that his life was on the line that he might die soon, so that someone could collect his life insurance. I e that, wouldn't that make you paranoid to remove that information. Isn't really fair for going to look at this case objectively and I'll tell you Tracy. Shoe has been fighting this case. so long because to her It's about the truth and islam. People are allowed to get away with the, with lies and then then the truth of what happened can't be known and then have people getting on a podcast and saying yeah. This could be suicide and that must be horrible for tracy shoe she loved her been, and that's not how she wants him remembered, will even me,
Investigator that didn't investigate the case. He's now come and he's one of tracy's biggest advocates, and he admits I screwed this up. We didn't investigate anything errand once said they didn't investigate, but yeah, and he admits to this. I have to just give this guy props, because most of the time its while it was investigated, we didn't find any so we're moving on now or what. It was just suicide and we're not going to take any more time we're not going to reopen the case out of just either ego or sheer laziness. This guy actually says no. This wasn't downright this wasn't done properly. It was attained, a crime scene, it wasn't lockdown it wasn't even treated as a crime scene and we didn't test anything.
and I really love this guy. You think that I wouldn't because he screwed up the investigation, but the fact that he admitted he was in the wrong did a poor job. That's a lot more than we get from most me, I think I'm a big part of that was that was a question over jurisdiction, and that became the driving force. You know what I mean like. That was what the focus was on. Instead of trying to figure out what happened to colonel philip, there is more of a concern over well. Are you supposed to be here on my running this or who's gonna take the car? and because of all that, it just spiraled away. I gotta love bureaucracy, right yeah you can understand? Other happened, because this was a military man How do you come down on this, and I mean I know it's people say
murder or suicide. But how do you come down on this? You think he was abducted and tortured, and then an accident or do you think this was intentional, the other former I think he was intercepted somehow, maybe through a ruse and died. I think so they came together after he left the house, because I I don't, I kind of feel like he would have told Tracy something if he was going to meet somebody- and in this case who knows what the rule was, and I can't even tell you who did this. I can just tell you who benefited and who seem to have the best motive, so in that case it seems like His ex and his son would have had the most to gain by this and had the best motive, but it wasn't investigated properly. All we have are gut instincts, and we have some clues, but we don't have any definitive evidence. So the sad thing here is is philip shoe law.
His life, leave as a role as a result of being tortured and because he was fleeing that torture or torturers and ended up in a terrible accident that took his life, I'm pretty much in agreements you. There was a private investigator hired by forty eight hours named Joe Morris. He thinks that the crime scene was so compromised and everything was so too. Did they could no longer investigate the case through molly or accurately. At that point, I I tend to agree with him that this death at the very best is undetermined and the fact that the pathologists and stuff, deemed it a suicide irony. I think there was enough evidence to deem it a suicide. I think it was only on determined and I found it is very disconcerting when they did this site
illogical analysis and they say: oh well, he had psychological problems and those ten. It lead to suicidal tendencies and we're just going to disregard this. I I feel like that that kind of sets up a really bad precedent of oh while, if you don't like somebody and they have mental problems, you can probably get away with murder. That's some harsh stuff there, but you know so I say it's undetermined, even though I would probably lead more indie. He was attacked side of things, but really the the whole investigation was such a was so tainted and such a disaster that I can't fall down on. their side. I just think that they should have deemed it undetermined in the beginning, so it could have at least been somewhat investigated right. Communist suicide is just an insult to that family. Some final notes
Colonel shoe had been seeing a colleague bout his. I guess you could call it depressed an anxiety that he was suffering. Bat doktor testified later that he never felt that fill was suicidal also. We talked about the two grey hairs that were found. The duct tape- I don't think this is in, definitive sid, don't take it as were saying he did it, but Nancy's husband. Timpson had gray hair. Also, Jeff shoe died on october, twenty second, two thousand fifteen, in a hospital in cincinnati after a brief illness? He was forty five years old. at the the
the. in nineteen, sixty nine, a vicious and seemingly random, killing spiraea, in LOS angeles, shocked the nation and when the king
we're. Finally caught the nation was even more shocked by who was behind the gruesome crimes. I'm lindsey grant the host of wonders. Podcast, american history tellers: we take you to the events times and people that shaped america and americans our value. our struggles and our dreams in our late, a series of fail musician, turned cult leader named Charles Manson, turns his young hippy followers into blood, thirsty killers and exposes the dark side of the peace and love generation. American history, tellers demands and murders is a wonder. He plus exclusive to listen to this special three part series join one replace in the wonder YAP,
Transcript generated on 2022-07-09.