This is an unofficial transcript meant for reference. Accuracy is not guaranteed.
I guess I'm not doing too well just what's your fever out right now, girl it it's a low grade, fever at the moment, ninety nine for I, your trooper man, for those of you who may not know we have some new web addresses. If you want to get to our food It's at the generation, my podcast dot com,
if you want more information about the show. If you want for official website its it jen. Why pod dot origin why shop dotcom takes you to the same place, and I wanted give everyone a heads up. I will be in denver at linger: the linger bar twenty thirty west thirtieth avenue, and what's the date on that. That's April second hits on saturday this saturday, at five thirty p m, I enjoyed our trip to new york city met amazing people out there we had the best time and the meet up was a little larger than I had expected. I had heard some decent numbers, bad, just seeing everybody coming in in finding places I it was a bit overwhelming at times, and I didn't quite it to say hello to every
and properly. Although I tried to shake everyone's hand at least say good by some great conversations. it's just an amazing reminder of how far everything has come for us with the podcast and getting to know that we have such intelligent listeners. Great people on new york. You have a great city and just it's all right it on their. I would say other than just didn't, like the noise, continued on the track or hours a day. They have trash trucks. I can sleep through trash tracks, you could have had fleet of them outside raising and lowering in smashing trash, and I could sleep through that. That's not a problem for me, in fact, dead silence is something I have more trouble with. Then noise for sleep now tonight episode. It came about as we had run a contest way back when we're still fulfilling the winners wishes. Each of them were able to use
just an episode or a topic, we said yes to every topic suggested to us and to from slovakia, suggested elizabeth battery, and I'm just going to say it right now. I spoke with tunisia, she's really nice. She was it help me with a lot of pronunciations. That said I american and I will probably butcher them So. I will attempt to give the considerations as best I can buy it for the most part, just address elizabeth battery as such yak that I heard about through different pronunciations of her name and barbary. I mean, I'm sorry, there's no r in there. I'm not going to say warsh, I'm not going to say barbary it just so yeah, it's bathory Elizabeth is known for being one of the greatest female serial killers of all time. Greatest
well, but the most numbers yeah, we should probably say infamous yeah, because great imply something good usually and when it comes to, The accusations made against elizabeth battery those not so good, they're, very unflattering, to say the least, just real, quick, I've, even read internet comments where female say this person's my icon, and I I look up to her and and I hope that she's, a symbol of feminist strength or something because she's a powerful woman in history and not because she tortured little girls. I would hope that you would choose a better person to look up to if, if you're going to go that route, I dunno there's oprah on am a gold man or just somebody else, not not elizabeth. It is said that she murdered between thirty seven and six hundred people yeah in her time and
get around to talking about that, because, as find out, there is more shhh about her story that me be understood or worse, she's born in fifteen sixty. She was one of four children and she died at fifty four, so fifteen sixties in hungary. there are multiple countries. You could say that all meet up in that area and, of course, these territories, which shift depending on was in power and which are had come under what control it seemed to be a constant war battle going on over lands that she was brought up and when it comes down to it, you could think of the enemies of these people were the ottoman turks but There are also struggles between hungarians and others as well be
regional, you might say, battery ancestor and again, who knows about pronunciations sped I'll attempt it v, touche fought a dragon in etches swamps and slay, the dragon using a spear or lance thrust it into the draft. three times the and was no more. And as a reward he was given this castle and land that it sat on so That's were supposedly This castle came from that's pretty bad ass. It was a reward three strikes to a dragon anatolia, laying a dragon there has to get you something and also at the time there were three points minute religions. So you had islamic turks, you add catholics and protestants. Elizabeth family had become protestant and
with some time in the mid to later fifteen hundreds. I believe that they really became protestant. So even it Time there were churches that may have looked or still sounded catholic, but were actually giving protestant services because they had been switched over. Elizabeth when she was young, many seizures and fits of rage. Nowadays, We would consider those migraines and epileptic fits also at the time peasants were slaves and its because at one point There is a peasant revolt in this happened in fifteen ten and the leader of the revolt was roast. Of live. and within seven years a document was drafted that decreed the enslavement of peasants are you'd, say, though, that sounds awful. How these people are slaves? Well, what it means Is that those seven days a week? Those aren't yours? You have to give up one day a week
for manual labor, for free to your masters, for your lord, sir batteries, family or other people like that you would have to pay tides taxes and if you wanted to travel, you would need proof. to do so. Your law It would also be able to judge you so They would be your court as well. So the lord's are the nobility that our ruling the land, that's so the peasants there are not free and your labour all the time, but over time there would be an increase in some places of those days they had to manual labor for free just depend now travel is not something most people would want to do anyway, because. the reason for having lords is protection, and if you just travel the turks grab, you and horrible things can happen, they could kid, If you rape, you kill you. Take you hostage
wasn't safer anyone even nobility. That's why needed armed guards. The nobility judge the peasants punishments usually took place in public. If it was bad enough, they would hang you in like there's a story about a gypsy stoa horse, the nobles deter. meant that the best way to gypsies that they should be stealing horses, do so the gypsy into the bell Of a horse which is pretty disgusting and let them broughton died, but, of course, this story probably isn't true has a horse was worth a lot of money. and so that would be a waste to waste the horse unless, of course, somebody's. Maybe the horse was deemed to be put down anyway, but chances are that didn't happen, The one thing that really stood at me reading about Elizabeth is that
even more so than other nobility at the time, because Many of the men had to learn how to fight. They were going to need to learn how to defend their kingdoms against the turks, so they re educating, but they did have the education she had because she wasn't going to be going off to war. She was educated and sciences, she could read and hungarian, slovak, german, latin and greek. She, very well rounded education, because at the time people didn't live to be eighty or ninety they live to the age of fifty or so young noble girls would become engaged his children. Sometimes it was just a strategic ruling of the land to have an end with the neighbouring kingdom, right alliances, etc. Now
for they were engaged. They would move in their future in laws, and this was for training purposes, because if they married, then they. to run their households. They would how to manage the staff and the home and they would gain social skills. Elizabeth at the age of eleven became, engage to florence near dash Who was sixteen at the time in fifteen? Seventy one? While you said this is the first major step in what would become her life by december fifteen me two. She has moved to serve our where the natasha Family lived that was basically their home base They would end up getting married in fifteen seventy five by both of their parents by then we're dead. I do know that ferrets fair
His parents seem to have had a very good relationship by his father died when he was young, his mother, lived up until fifteen seven, once she saw him engaged. I believe she died before Elizabeth every moved there from all. I can see here in my studies, ferrets in a dash d, he had a nick, aim Ferko for him getting married to elizabeth bath. Three was marrying up because she had even grew. your prestige and staff. less than anyone in his family did he was just higher up so for than a dash d. This is a very good thing. It's kind of understood that back in acid, that Elizabeth was more of a tomboy that she didn't exactly dressed. Like Lady sometimes
and kept up with the boys and in sarovar she was being taught how to be a wife and a noblewoman. So a bit of a shock to her system, because by becoming gazed and getting married. She was having to let go of some of these freedoms. She had. Basically, I heard her saw the family had what was a low but more rocky, then her husband side and she had more interesting aunts and uncles that may or may not been on board with her marriage may or may not been on board. their families decisions. This episode is brought to you by peacock bridge ending the original limited series, a friend of the family, on the story of the Jan proper kidnappings from again Tosca executive producer of the act and candy and direct producer eliza hip and comes a dark compelling look at the harrowing story through new lands produced which amber
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where that is its about eighty miles, south east of vienna. Now the wedding ferrets would take part in a jousting turn, meant prior to the ceremony, and after that of which supposedly he won the tournament. He would reveal his gifts to his new wife, which was the castle chaytor, which his mother left to him in fifteen. Sixty nine about two years before she passed on So he gave her this castle and its seventeen accompanying villages, so quite a bit of property and its a gift, although no one really knows whether she appreciated this gift or not be as its castle villages in, for some people that might have been great. We don't know her feelings on it because never actually says anything about it. Now, this interesting,
thing that happens before their ceremony. Ferrets is tested- and this is a this- is a ritual might say where elizabeth and harassed dense or we call them bridesmaids nowadays back then I think they call them retinue they would all where veils and they would parade past ferrets and he would have to choose the correct woman from the line so. There are all trying to act like Elizabeth. They ve seen her know what she's about they have to work with her all the time. They know her habits, they know what she does. So there are pertain to be her and he man this too correctly pool Elizabeth from the line and the veil was pulled away and they can now. The ceremony is a religious ceremony and they tie a blue ribbon to unite their hands,
and of course, there be feasting and drinking now then fur France's assistance or his groomsmen wid use torches, and he would they would guide ference and elizabeth down to the bed chambers. and see that they got in there to consummate the marriage before any other feasting drinking or whether they have just turn in who knows, but they would make sure the marriage was consummate. That night she is an independent woman. Now she does not take his last name. so. She remains elizabeth battery, all foe informally, according to em when around her. They still collar lady a dash d, but it's Her official name, it's just her title since she is married to finance new dash d, who is the ruler by fifteen eighties. Ferrets has earned a reputation as a great military leader.
And even his enemies know him. As the black night of hungary and the ottoman turks are his foes for the rest of his life. So he's engaged constantly in battle, he'll come back now and again, Emily does everything is turned upside down for his arrival. It's like a great homecoming every time he does come home because it's not often so she literally ass to help plan this. When you know when they know he's coming back as they write letters back and forth, he says I'm coming home, then she asked to get everything ready for a great celebration for his return and make him feel welcome, and she has to make sure that she's there, because she has multiple castles and kingdoms that she's managing right now. So she asked to travel whoever he's coming home to write and she spends a lot of time in Sarber from what I understand now within guy much the time
It is basically the leader, sir she's managing staff, and arbitrating disputes among the people and handling matters of diplomacy and seeing that defences against the term in the immediate area are taken care of as well, because again, there's a along going land war between the two groups are multiple groups. Yeah. It's multiple groups really because their artists, even in hungary, with the king of hungary, so that something that's tenuous throughout all the years with changing allegiance is in such because every kingdom has to make decisions. based on what is happening so, if they're being invaded, they have to choose well, do we fight these invaders off or if garrisons of some sort. Then maybe we need to maybe have a temporary truce of some kind, so that were spared and we don't waste the resource.
is it? The political situation is so touchy that it's not easy. It takes a lot of work. I takes a lot of thought. You have to have some great decisionmaking going on As every decision you make, could really hurt you the next time or help you so it's tricky at best, but she does managed to have children with her husband. Yes, you will have children, they had anna. Or ass occur in canada, and she also had a name andras, but andrea, only made it to age. Seven now after andras. She did have a son name, Paul, empowered and at being the air the male air by it there is also a story that before she actually sealed deal with parents that she had a fling we maybe even a peasant renault, ensure love child out of wedlock. Out of wedlock.
Had a chance if she had been sort of locked way somewhere until she had the child and then that child was carried off just taken away, so they didn't have to deal with it or any fall out from it. That child could not be an error. Although you wonder if that child- if this is a true story, if that child would eventually come to know this, and if that was ever an issue, But there is that story and it does seem to have some corroborating evident. For at least in the writings, because appall right, Walter, don't say Paul. Would it point hint that he was the legitimate air and we wonder why he would need to say that, because the only other legitimate son had died at seven, perhaps he was aware of this and there was another battery mail that comes along at some point, that is in the records, but we
no, if it's the one that she had let go of early on or if it was a cousin or what but either way at some point it does My Paul has to reiterate that he is the legitimate air, so her husband's off at war and during this time is sort of when we start getting the rumours of why she's and the most to this day right, it seems as though it's in the last it may be into the fifteen nineties. I think that this becomes something yeah, there's so many different versions of the story about fifteen nineties to sixteen ten is the standard sometime
before she's arrested. There are stories, and in sixteen ten there is movement. There is a protestant priest who is speaking out against her saying that she's doing bad pangs and they engage a man name thursday. So too start an investigation against her because of these allegations. The reason why this trial happens, I would say, is in february sixteen o nine. There were complaints coming both are so an king Matthew s himself. They were reports of strange goings on with elizabeth battery. The countess had repeated requests for burials too many and it just was sending up red flags, one of those complaining was the
for an andras barrow shifts who is a recently retired clergyman, but she's really on her own elizabeth tsar around. So no one else even is powerful, she is there's no one else that could defend her. So we have, results and the king. Looking at the situation, saying we better do something any They make she's going to be powerless to do anything about it, so she's easy pickings for them right and this some retired clergymen, has supposedly documented these bodies had been requested for burial. There's a resistance to fulfil. Her demands she's already seeing a a revolt of sorts. Now they retired clergymen was place with a reverend, Janusz we'll do say, Janusz p, because I can't pronounces last name. Sorry, he d
it's to check for himself to see what's going on and he ends up in the series of underground tunnels that connects the church in the castle. These those were basely being used for storage at the time he d I was finding an unbearable stench within fines. Nine unseal boxes that contain the remains of recently mutilated female corpses and you'll end up hurrying back to the church. This is where He's really start rolling against her, so thursday has to make a decision here because he's entrusted with her, but he also has to make the right call for everyone not just for her, and he wouldn't condone the senseless murmur of people, especially these. These are the servants of the land. These belong to the kingdom mean even know their people, but they belong to the kingdom in their there. They provide that free day of work for the nobles they
provide the taxes they. You can't kill off your own people and expect to stay in power. There is oh shows up. He claims he immediately fines, one girl dead and another girl dying. So right from there he's thinking something something bad's a foot and he goes on to investigate, interrogate witnesses and find out. How are these girls being treated? How are the the servants being tortured or killed, and from there we get this story of how Elizabeth was the meanest most cruel, woman ever to walk the face of the earth they would bring in new servant girls. She would have them taken up in cages, stripped down and hosed off or washed off and then from there. She would
choose which ones that she would take as her own and then the other ones would go work in the lands, the ones that she would take as her own, that she would typically murder them outright or have one of her subordinates torture them in front of her There is a story about a servant that stole some money, so she takes the servant. They heat up a coin to white hot and stick the coin in her hand, so it burns into her flesh. They say that she would take needles and pins and shove them under people's fingernails. Hang
people upside down and lance them and shower in their blood. Also, shoes spoke of her blood. Fetish came about because one servant was brushing her hair. Did it a little too rough Elizabeth stood up, punch the girl in the face the blood from her nose god on Elizabeth hand and then in some really bad, I reenactment imagine that her wrinkles on her hand, went away because of this blood, and hence we get Elizabeth, is now a blood fiend from Here we have her bathing in blood drinking blood. They say when she's
not feeling well she'll, be in her bed, though, bring a servant girl to her bed and she'll just grab on to them like a bulldog and bite off a hunk of flash it. It gets really weird. I mean you're sick right now or do you feel a need to you know drink blood right now to feel better? I I don't know if that's really a a thing, there's even a theory that she had low iron ore iron deficiency and when she consumed blood or flesh should get her iron content, so she was self medicating with bathing in drinking blood. I have a hard time with some of these things when you see pictures of her depicted in a bath bathing in blood- and I think well typical
and body has five leaders of blood. You know, there's three point: seven leaders of blood and a gallon typical bathtub has about thirty five to fifty gallons in it, or talk in twenty six or plus people to drain just to take a bath. I being its. These numbers get really reject, when you think of the most extreme allegations that, if you're taking literally you could take a bath in which you lay in a tub and they poor blood on you yeah, but that's not how the history chain Oh and while the history channel run stories and bigfoot yo, so these allegations now. Why do they come about when you look at history of elizabeth battery. Something happens in sixteen o for her husband. Ferrets dies in battle, but due to sickness or disease, not actually from getting
struck down, he knows he's dying and he makes it known that he wants his way to be entrusted to the earlier. There is so he's the palatine of hungary he is the one who will end up arresting her so press. When you look back, you think, wait a minute ferrets entrusted her to him to thursday So why would so go after her? I think it's obvious why he would cause at least have a chance at inheriting some land
some power here. He has total motive to go after her and take her out get her out of the way so him and his families can take over, but he uses this one protestant priest and and other things to drum up support for his investigation. They bring on witnesses during this trial and all of them give accounts of torture and abuse and and murder in it's a lot of it's pointed at some of her subordinates to write. There's like seven of them that are supposed to be her hench men and women who are executing her orders of torture and abuse are but one's a carta, elena yo
door athena and fits that psycho. These are the the main accused well when trials are conducted back in these. Sixteen hundreds they were a fish created by church and civic leaders and Testimonies were extracted by torture, so they didn't feel you did just ask somebody they felt you had to get the truth out by hurting these people and they did.
Elizabeth would not go on trial, but all of her assistance, quoting quote, would be put on trial and they would be tortured and they would be executed. Elizabeth would never be allowed to testify. So from these testimonies and accounts, they get all the information they need about elizabeth actions and murders. It said that she had killed between thirty five and thirty seven people, I think actually says thirty. Six and thirty seven
during this time, little bit less than six hundred, but maybe they didn't know about all the murders ray. I have a lot of time to sit down to read a book, I'm always on the go going from one festival or made up to another and audible offers me an incredible selection of audio books cross every genre, although I think I stick to mainly the aea, thrillers in true crime section as an audible member, I can choose one title a month, including the best sellers and new releases audible members get access to a growing selection of audio books, audio originals and podcast their included with your membership. You can listen. All you want in mortgage added. Every month, Gillian flynn is going to be putting out a new book soon all the news about sharing penny. You might want to go back and give gone girl or listen, let audible.
hope. You discover new ways to laugh, be inspired or be entertained. New members contrived for free for thirty days, visit, audible, dot com, slash gaeta, BP or text Judah view p, two: five hundred five hundred: that's audible, dot com, slashed cheetah, BP or text gdp to five hundred five hundred to try audible free for thirty days, one more time, audible, dot, com, slash gdp as part of the investigation, they interrogate people and they had about thirty four witnesses, and none of them could actually say did they saw anything personally, except for one, and that was under ass, some mogi. He was a clerk you claimed of actually seen young girls with badly burned hands, but other than himself, nobody had seen or heard anything personally, they're just rumours stuff they had heard about so when they get down to it. There's a lot of people,
who have heard things the only solid evidences, maybe possibly a few bodies on the problem, there's another interrogator name, deputy notary, moses, Sarah and he interrogated about eighteen people, some crazy stories. There. One witness claimed us the blood stain on a wall heard beatings from inside the cat all new of about a hundred and seventy five dead young women and women taken out of there, but he didn't see it personally. He does heard about it arrived friends recounted hearing about three dead bodies packed into a single coffin. Another one alleges to have seen girls with arms tied so tightly that their hands were blue and blood came out of their faith,
years so crazy stories, but in all it's again like hearsay evidence. These numbers are kind of hard to believe to me, though, with six hundred plus victims- and they say a thirty five year span between fifteen and twenty a year, depending on how many she's doing and also did they all happen during this entire span, did you know, did she start and then stop? There's just a lot of lot going on here. Also, the one account that it was you know thirty, five victims or thirty, six victims will now thirty five. You know thirty five years, thirty six victims now we're looking at one victim a year. There's a broad! range of the brutality in the murder happening? Not I kind of, I guess after h, h homes, I start to wonder in early september of sixteen ten with the pressure she's feeling
from the situation? She knows that there is an investigation going on. She writes her last one testament to make sure that her property and assets are going to be passed on to our children, and so she names Paul and honour and catarrh, as her airs its difficult to know whether she's just trying to make sure that it stays within the family or if she's, trying to sort of me the target off of herself. If she longer has anything that can just be snatched up, then maybe she won't make as good a target for these people, when your name is in your children, is your legacy. So I can see why she's giving it away to them from you. I think they're. Both of those reasons are correct, but that's what carries on your name and back then that meant lot more than that. It means now and she will move from SAR bar to chaytor, she's may,
if she knows that the walls were closing in, thursday is also feeling pressure, because this investment she's going out and while the evidence isn't quite there, there are a lot of accusations. So it's almost you could say a tarnished reputation there dealing with now. So this isn't going in a good. Chauffeur elizabeth either way doesn't matter that they don't have smoking guns here. It's almost though the damage is happening and there's no way to stop it, its political assassination, it's the damage is done with slander and she's, not happy and she let him know about it, says she needs protection against such insults. They don't exactly charge her, but they ban assure two or castle. They would end at putting to death
her assistance. While she wasn't on trial, they found a way to stop her basically put her under house arrest and they kept her in her castle. She could not go anywhere some I don't say that she was kept in one room and a tower of the castle, whereas most of the documents or accounts I've I take are, she was just on house arrest and she could move around the entire castle. And when it comes down to it was she a murderer. Wish someone who was torturing young women.
to stay young or because she had developed a taste for sadism again. I I think that back in those days, how many people did she employ and if she had one person die under her reign a year that might just be normal death rate. For that time I mean she even had a son that died at age, seven, so people working in the lands people working for her. This is an easy work. If even seventeen a year is a high number or not, but six hundred seems outrageous to me and I would just assume that most families, their daughters, are kind of their bargaining chips at that time, and I don't know if they would send all their daughters away to work
this kingdom to never be heard from again monies tight, but here you are kind of given away your children and if there is already rumours that none of them are coming home answer it's hard for me to get on board with think one of the troubles here is that despite rumours of there is no documentation of who was murdered supposedly there were accounts, as I said when the clergyman was said, to have written down accounts of some of the people who had died and that it was a lengthy list. But no such documentation exists and the strange thing is: is there actually is a decent amount of documentation from there so it's not as though we could say well, nothing really survive. So why we that and then you have room
where's that they tried to get rid of a lot of this because it was just bad and they didn't want staining history as it were. But I think when you factor in her upbringing and her role in her kingdom, I just don't know how she would have the time I mean they said that, just on a normal day, it would take almost three hours for her assistance just to get her ready in the morning and then she'd have to arbitrate disputes amongst the people travel between castles to. Deal with those there's just so much going on because she's a leader think of how busy our president is every moment of their day is pretty much mapped out now. Does the president gets from downtime? Yes, so when she had on time? What did she do? I think she went horseback riding things like that. Apparently she ate little girls according to.
St right, but I guess what I'm trying to say, though, is really easy to. smear somebody for political purposes. Or especially back then, because she was a woman. Think about this. this was going on. T no nine. Sixteen ten, when all this started coming down on her head spot, the same time as the sale in which trials and at the time Elizabeth very much into herbal medicines, she was in two things that be concert which, like because those things were falling out a favor eventually, so you can have to wonder if there weren't multiple factors involved here, none more important than the fact that her husband
I died. I think if he had lived on some more that she wouldn't have faced these issues. None of this would have gone down the way it did even with him off fighting these battles just having him out there afforded her protection and it's not long after he dies that problem. Sark develop yeah, it's pretty quick. If we're supposed to believe that she bade them blood. Are we also supposed to believe the other guy lanced dragon to one's acceptable ones, not but they're all repeated over time. People were brutal back then the punishment for for crimes were savage back. Then that's why we say get medieval on ya. You know wasn't a a nice time, but at the same time-
Her healing methods bloodletting burning. Those were things that people dead dead to help each other, even so, where some of these girls tortured or was that just modern day medicine there is an old saying is where there is smoke. There's fire. Perhaps she was now, nice to staff, we don't really know, but it's possible because not every noble version was nice. Their staff there may have been abuse. There may have been a death here there. It just seems to be the Is that even in the letters between third so at his wife or amongst other people, no one's coming forth and saying? Yes, we saw this happen. People are asked
some never testify who supposedly were there when they caught her red handed and there's nothing definitive there. So not very plausible y know that its very popular say that she was the blood countess. Idas tend to see that this is more of just a fabrication. Much like h, h, homes where he didn't kill two hundred three hundred or five hundred people. He probably killed mine and with Elizabeth bathory, thirty five people over thirty five years. That's that, I'm not even sure. That's true. It seems it's more like a smearing of a character. To me this is Can't say, I think, it's I don't think it's fair to say she was a blood countess. Also think I can't go out and say that she never murdered anybody. I think everything here has been grossly exaggerated and been made into something that it.
And so there is no proof either way. Although I would say there's a lot of proof that there has been a lot of exaggerations going on and we have invented a character, that's become very popular, it's been popular movies, it's been popular music, it's almost like a lie can become the truth. Anytime Do you hear that
It's a little space for mindfulness become. A meditation pie. Gas in fifteen minutes are, alas, become yours is to unwind, listen, exe, simply on amazon, music or simply I could have ass alexa play the podcast become
Transcript generated on 2022-10-17.