« The Generation Why Podcast

Freddie Gray - 163

Freddie Gray. Baltimore, Maryland. A 25 year-old man makes eye contact with a police officer and runs. He is pursued and apprehended within a minute. A search of his person revealed a knife that the officers deemed to be illegal. He is arrested and would be placed into a police van for transport to the police station. Sometime between his arrest and his arrival at the station, he is seriously injured and becomes unresponsive. Inside of a week he would undergo double surgery on his spine, go into a coma, & die. State's Attorney Marilyn Mosby would levy charges against six officers as a result of what occurred. Was his death an accident or murder? Or was it something else? As criticism and distrust of law enforcement grows, what can be done to restore trust in those who have vowed to protect and serve? See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.
This is an unofficial transcript meant for reference. Accuracy is not guaranteed.
The alright, how you doing tonight are doing really good, I'm sitting here drinking a stout. Apparently you brought me some beer, it's like your birthday and christmas and I probably should have brought you I guess cause now. I've just done what everyone does and gives you one gift cause your birthday and christmas so close. What do you say? is that now I don't need two gifts of actually, you did bring a card, so that's the other gift. Since it's sort of a funny card, a lot of people have asked and said that
retiring from my job. Cars were such a huge, successful podcast now and to be honest, we make some money, but the pot castro r t, shirt and hoodie sales and and other things, but were were really not making enough money that neither one of us could walk away from our job. So where were working on that on this new year, and will have premium subscription base staff and why some more sponsors to so there is that but yeah, I literally just walked away from an eighty thousand dollar a year. I t job to do this. Hopefully it works out, gary by you, data for your health, too. Oh yeah, absolutely job now job was taking it all. They knew when to say win but I saved up a lot of money, I'll be living off my savings for a little while until we get there revenues from podcasting in everything else. So what are we talking to?
tonight. I know our guesses. Somebody said: Freddy mercury is what we are carrying, and I am sorry that its close, but not covering freddy mercury. I know I would say the only thing that they possibly share was probably a great smile yeah. I think right I agree and freddy gray both had grades miles. This is a controversial topic. It's obvious gap because you essentially have two sides pitted against each other will get into, but I almost think that, because this is what's going on, that things won't get fixed yeah. Let's talk about freddy gray, though, because he's the eye you he's the victim
he's the one that lost his life some time in mid april, mid to late april of two thousand and fifteen, which was now just last year. Freddy was twenty five years old, five foot, eight one hundred and forty five pounds, or so he lived with his sisters, one of which was his older sister carolina, by two years and then his other sister was Fred rica and frederick was his twin sister and they lived together. You could say, because they didn't have a very good life growing up. They added their mother had drug issues and she wasn't very well educated at all. In fact, she knew how to count, but she could not read and she would later talk about how that affect our children. She could raise them, but she didn't always have the money to feed them properly and she couldn't edge
Kate them, so eventually these siblings would help each other one of the things I went occur while their growing up as they were in a house for about four years. That paint was peeling off the walls, but it was led based paint, and this was back in the early, the mid nineties. They would end up saddling out of court because their court case we're supposed to go through in two thousand and nine. It got pushed back and then in two thousand and ten there was a settlement, but the details of that settlement were not made public due to law. And so all we do know is that family and friends have said that the house that carolina, Freddy and Frederica lived lived in costa hundred twelve thousand dollars and that they purchased it with court. Him quote: lead paint money now, freddy by
accounts, and there are many people have come forward, say that he was a really nice guy, very loyal friend. And what else can you say? I happy god, you're, happy, seemingly well, just a guy, and we don't know, we see that with cases freddy gray, for the people who share life with him, they loved him very much. Now he did have as issues the lead paint settlement. The reason why they settled out of court while they had that you could say a small victory there when it was going through court. The other side tried to argue that his issues could come from having a poor upbringing and other things like that. But experts had testified that be lead poisoning in his blood, as well as the sisters, blood, definitely
fact them it would affect their brains, their development, the stunt, their education stumper, their growth, other things like that yeah they do a measurement its by micrograms per se, gets per dc out. If you hit ten, that's considered lead poisoning, even though they say that there is no sir, if level there is actually a level whether looking at okay, what kind of damage are we going to see now for sure they were over that level? now. Beyond mad, he had an arrest record is reported that he was arrested eighteen times since two thousand nine. Most most of those arrests were for possession of drugs or drug dealing. I didn't see any violent arrests violent crime, arrest on their well. There is burglar age his passing narcotics. Yes, most of them were drug related, and you have to imagine that while he did have some money from the settlement, that's not,
after retire on. So I am sure that, because of his situation, he was dealing drugs to make money and people say that he was very loose with money. If he had, some money would burn in his pocket and being that his upbringing was what it was in situ That is an he doesn't have as many opportunities is the rest of us do he's been dealt a hand and he's playing you know behind them. He can but has also said that he wanted to get into football. They love football, but he was too small to play the position he monitor play which was tight end. I thought he was bigger than that when you're saying his stats, I mean I, I thought he was one hundred and forty five pounds. That's pretty small. Actually he see his sisters, they don't look.
a big either when you re, that's the set up, can't know everything about freddy gray. But again we can read what other people reporting he's had family and friends talking in the media and giving some information here, and there was the full day of this event, while starts on april twelfth of two thousand fifteen and Eight something in the morning, Freddy's walking to bicycle cop, are riding along and he makes eye contact with them. He turns in fleet these or runs away They chased him down, they apprehend him, they subdue him. and they find a knife on him. So they rest him. There item in a a patty wagon or a police van. We should say this all takes place between eight forty and forty five or so
and the pursuit only lasts about a minute according to the records within a couple of minutes of them apprehending him, they call for a police fan, but while he's on the ground one of the officers Garret Morris uses a wrestling move to make sure that he doesn't give them trouble now. I know people that have seen the video when freddy gets up. He looks like he's having trouble with his legs. He's put wrestling move by garrett morris in its known as a leg lace, you drive your shoulder into their bought area, and you basically hook your arm around and you can secure their legs, one by one into a laced or crossed pattern against your own body, and you stay on your toes and keep your weight down on them so that they can move
there are literally held their their legs are useless now now I could imagine that when he first got up, because he was known as more of a slight guy that when he was put in a leg, lace that it it could have cut off some circulation for a little bit and he might have been a little numb- that's my guess. in and also when they had him apprehended another. Officer, had his knee on fridays neck to hold him down off the will do these things for their own safety? restrain you They always say that the best thing you can do if you're being apprehended by authorities is just to let them do their work, just relax gis Besides him fleeing the scene, I thought it. I reckon please support that he'd. They said that he didn't resist. I know I'm just explaining what they will do some things, even though he wasn't quarter quote resisting
We know that some people who flee the the police or are being apprehended by police do put up a fight. So all I'm trying to say is: is they will do certain things just to make sure or you never know it someone's going to do, and police officers are constantly putting themselves in danger because their interacting with will they have no idea who they are from their point of view, I understand what's going on here and I'm trying to explain why it's possible that when he got up his legs, didn't quite look right and then by the time they're getting up into the van he's able to stand on out of his own court or on his own under his own power, he's, helped ended. I'll give you that standing at the back of the ban, standing there on his own two feet and one sir, has his hand on his arm he by. He was riding in pain. He was, yelling and rising in paying. When he was on the ground, he was yelling out the even when they were dragging him to the Van. He was stowing out right, even in the report
as that he wasn't resisting. It was taken without incident yeah, it's probably because people do get upset. He didn't want to be taken in he private and understand. Why was being taken in and on the other hand, maybe he did have a bit of a distrust poor police. we don't know why he fled. He had a knife clipped in his right front pocket. The officer believe this knife to be illegal is definitely being arrested at this point because of the knife, because fleeing police is not a crime and they can't arrest you for that- let's get into that a little bit later probable com
fleeing terry for us all that good stuff goes we'll talk about that for a long time, and I want to get too he's put into. The Van is also asking for his inhaler because he's an asthmatic miss having trouble breathing. I've heard it said that if you are having an asthma attack, you can't exactly ass, freer inhaler, but here's the issue when he's down the ground and he has wait being put on his body, bovine his legs and his neck. It's possible that either anxiety or in injury that's occurring at that moment could cause him to believe that he's having difficulty breathing. I could imagine that he was having some kind of a problem that that's our first coup that some things Going wrong he's asking for his inhaler and too many people seem willing to say: oh yeah, he's
trying to get out of trouble. If he reports too many issues that they might have to take him to a medical center or send all the bad guys say this, they all try to get out of it. Yeah, that's the the retort to this, but here's the thing is, you have to take it seriously and if he's asthmatic, they have to take that into account. They can't just Miss it now. How they know is asthmatic because he sang. I want my inhaler death. You say it, breathe any by inhale. You can't I'm just saying you shouldn't begets second guessing guys in aceh, this matter like that, I worked with a guy who, one day I was sitting at a table with them and we are talking about new orleans food and then later within the week he died. He hadn't asthma attack and crept up on him. He was not ready and by the time he got isn't here, it's too late, So this is a little disregarded at this point. It's a serious issue again, so he is put into the police van with his hands handcuffed. But his legs are free at first
The police van drives a little ways and then makes its first stop which literally is to take friday out of the back of the van and shackle his ankles and then place him back in the van he's, still complaining daddy's having trouble breathing. Yet he needs his inhaler whatever they continue on and let's back up a second, they don't buckle him in in this van. right. There are benches, there are seat belts available, they don't buck a woman, they don't buckle in now. The officer said that he didn't see any reason to buckle him in yeah because he wasn't required to He said he didn't get the memo. Essentially, there was a memo sent out a week before saying you have to buckle in all your prisoners, but here's the thing
from an irish than they send it out, be email, but if you're having trouble with people getting injured or killed in the backs of police fans, You would think this would require something more than an email you would literally have a meeting and go over it. I'm just saying this. That gets an idea in my corporate world. We would have full on meetings over things that people didn't die over, but whatever so now. Freddy is not buckled in his feet and his hands are both shackled they make a second stop to check on friday. to see. If he's having medical issues and he saying he as medical issues, but at this point his almost unresponsive and he's lying on the floor of the van dead, of taking him to the hospital or directly to the police station. They decide ok, they decide to go on
another stop to pick up another prisoner, another arrest. He and they don't get to see other re, aren't they separate yeah there there's two different compartments in the back of the Van in there is actually a wall metal panel. and they bring this other guy and deny continue on to the police station. They this other prisoner out first and then they go back for freddy, who is completely unresponsive and now they've alerted m tease near their contacted the baltimore fired at marya, their alerted at nine twenty six am I'm not sure what time they get to the police station, but, as you said, if they don't get him first, that's more time taking by yeah. So who knows when they got there, but so this starts at eight forty five. So from eight forty five two
nine, twenty, nine thirty something so about half an hour. Maybe forty minutes now be like forty five minutes, yeah yeah, but that's also in dispute, because the police have aid, that it was about thirty minutes after it all started that they called for help with him yeah, but family member has stated that it was more like an hour now. I was just doing the math based on the information available and it more like forty. Some odd minutes right in between both of their times that their arguing about? Let's call thirty, let's call for violence collared our within timeframe. Freddy goes from, completely healthy person to full cardiac arrest with a Eighty per cent severed spine and a damaged or collapse trachea from nine thirty,
three until nine fifty four, I guess you could say, like the e m tease for the fire department, are working with him. There entreating we don't know what they're doing we don't know what they're saying all that's private he's driven to shock trauma, which is a trauma hospital. That's part of the university of maryland medical center and the he arrives there at ten, a m on April fourteenth. he undergoes surgery for his three broken vertebrae and injured. Trachea he's obviously in bad shape. There's also, it said in injury to his head that matches with a protruding bolt in the back of the ban, at least for thee
injury slashed vertebrae. It appears that he may have been thrown from inside the van into the back of the van and hit his head broken his vertebrae. That's it that's a best guess, because there's no camera back there as far as we know right now right, so he gets out of surgery and he's in a coma for about three days it's on April nineteenth, which is a weak there. After his incident, Freddy gray dies. Where do we go from people in baltimore are upset you yeah the day prior his death protests break out. So this is hitting the news. The police departments been sort of four coming at least with amid the day after they arrested him, they had a press conference and talked about a few things that were going on. They don't say everything, but they let people know that their
as an arrest made, was not responding. They sort of keep everyone alert to what going on throughout, but people are upset because where they look at it is this man died, while in police custody. Exactly and there's no love lost between some of the people in baltimore, and the police department. They dont have the best record. They have a lot of complaints filed against them. Its common knowledge that they do this thing hold a rough ride, a nickel ride or take you for a ride day. Of numerous people that have been injured in the back of their police fans ten years past two freddy graze death another man. I have mister Johnson. So its Dante aired dandy, johnson. Who was arrested for urinating in public, they put him in the back. The van he was not buckled in
By the time he arrived at the police station, he was saying he needed medical attention. He take him to the hospital empty. He's or whoever the medical people were asked him. How did this happen? And he said this very colorful language here he said the b was driving like an asshole. Mister Johnson would end up dying two weeks later from his injuries suffered in the back of this fan. There is a photo taken of one. doors and their vans. That says, Please enjoy the ride. We know we will so when there's finally a term a name for this. This practice that they do of not buckling people in and giving them a rough ride. you can say: hey, Freddy has a record here. He was a bad kid and you can Today we have a systematic practice that has
own term now from this police agency, this police department, for over ten years of putting. officer and arrested lives in danger now buckling Prisoner is both for the officer and the iraqi people back and listen to episode. One. You hear me talk about the guy that they arrested in my jury duty episode and they put them in the back of a paddy wagon and when they get to the they station? They open the door. What does he do? He kicks the officer phase and runs off guess what, if and buckled in that when that happened, are you sure about this? Because the way I understand it is these buckles can be undone by the prisoners. if their hands are hank up, yonder back in there ankles are shackled and their buckled in I'm sorry will then get a three point: buckle system get one around their legs given around their tours. No, it's not for their safety is for the officer safety too
here. We see them not buckling and people intentionally. So I can give them a rough ride. Hmm! Well! I don't know if it's intentional, but I can certainly say if you're riding in the back of a vehicle. I dunno, if you've ever done this, but have you ever been in the back of a pickup truck and gone for and yeah. Your driver isn't intending to give you a rough ride, and yet there are moments because of changing driving conditions say road gets a little crappy have to make us in turn or evade and other vehicle you're going to have a rough moment. That's all it takes what's the point of the sign on the back of their door them. Well, I don't know. If that's is that confirmed being real or yes that is ok. Why didn't I about that, but I am saying is: if you're secured in the vehicle. Their driving. You could get a rough ride by action Aaron it's the law to have your seatbelt buckled,
these signs. Oliver kansas city that say, click it or take it. Now I understand so. The cops are choosing to break the law right here. Well could yet remember it was a policy that they enacted not too long before this. If you can get it get a citation for not wearing your seatbelt, it is a law. I don't care about their policy well now. I understand that I'm just saying that it's dangerous absolutely dangerous at both the police and the writer. I'm surprised because of how much money they had to pay out in settlements with families that They wouldn't think about the liability issue. Apart from the law, I'm saying people can say, laws be damned bed. What about money when your independent millions of dollars to families. You would think they would say, walk away you too, to reduce the liability. What could we do to write the situation, but it
wrong in saying that. The reason why the liability as it matters, because it's a governmental agency so as Really their money is taxpayers money and you pain whatever ere. I don't know just there is just a thought I have a serious problem with the the buckling in, or lack thereof, hear this This vote is brought to you by peacock bridge ending the original limited series, a friend of the family, based on story of the Jan roper, kidnappings from nick and oscar executive producer of the act and candy and direct producer, eliza hip and comes a dark compelling look at the harrowing story through new lands produce which amber burke herself, this theory stars anna pack, when jake lacy college hanks, LEO Tipton and mckenna grace stream now only on peacock taxes, age S and Y see, is the next instalment of the award winning anthology series. American horror story created
ryan murphy and brad fell chuck with to all episodes airing each week. It promises to be a season like no other, It s an y, see stars returning favorites like Zachary window and Billy lord, along with some fresh, mrs including Russell Toby and Charlie carver. Something evil is coming effects it age S and Y, see premiers october nineteenth on ethics stream on hulu say I'm baby sitting. What are your kids earn and we get in my car and I dont buckle in your kid and we drive off. I have custody of your child. We get into a car wreck your child. as it, I not liable twelve. That efforts is the government is on top there in charge. So if you are part of that government, quite often you can get away with stuff that the average Joe citizen couldn't let's talk about something else: they got away with bullets that we're not talk about two major problems is asking for medical assistance,
he's not getting. It has also not been buckled in so he's in a vehicle which, again where, by practice or by accident, though that's too strikes already it doesn't even matter if it was intentional or accidental. It's a man has died, it will matter beak as well. It matters if its murder or manslaughter I was going to say it and states attorney maryland most be ends at filing charges against six officers. So I think it does matter because some of these charges, you know we could go through them less tugela who are officer, edward nero he's twenty nine with the force for three years officer
importer, twenty five years old, with the force for three years officer garrett miller, who already mentioned twenty six with the force for three years, sergeant: Alicia white thirty, with the force for five years officer caesar goods in forty five with the force for sixteen years, lieutenant Brian rice aged forty one with the department eighteen years and the charges against them are varied yeah, but some of them are counts of misconduct in office, which is, literally when you're, either acting or failing to act in a way such as to constitute a breach of the duties of that office. Would be denial of medical services or not buckling. Somebody in that's how I interpreted that charged right- and this is the sort of clear up for people- wonder how where they able to bring charges against police officers
are doing their job. Well, that's in question whether they did their job or not, and certainly some of the things they did were part of their duties and they were doing their job. But there are questions here about some the actions that were taken or not taken another one is officer caesar goods in was charged with second degree. Depraved heart murder now? This is where someone has displayed a reckless disk regard for another person's life. It ends up. They end up dead because of that. So again, when you look at What happened here were a seemingly healthy young man, Freddy grey, was placed in wealth, was apprehended and then placed into the back of a police van by the time he gets to the police station he's not responding anymore, which seems really crazy and so
least at the start. Here, if you ve been where those people saying there in saying wire, people get so upset about this. It's because this could have been anybody. And this is in a case like Michael brown or all these other things were, happen during the apprehension. This isn't somebody hiding the police officer or a cop claiming self defence fearing for his life. This wasn't a an altercation. This was somebody in the care custody of the police who dies? right, you can't say, while he shouldn't have kicked the police officer region of hit him, he didn't do those things now and as far as we know, he was he. got upset you scream some. He asked for medical help. He asked for his inhaler, but he never did strike the officers and in it in their own reports, they dont have him fighting back without incident without insight,
so people have rights and it doesn't matter whether you live in Kansas city or onto portland or in baltimore or an tampa. We all have rights. Yet when it comes down to these charges, some people will say their politically motivated or that the states attorney most be filed these charges, because she is a part of a movement or that she has stakes in these matters based on who she's affiliated what she's she's been accused of. Being anti police officer she's been accused of being anti law enforcement. I? What what is what is most bees family consist of her parents? Grandparents, uncles. Oh that's right through our police officers. Look. I guess that that's kind of hard obligation to make people will toss decisions around. But when you actually dig in here,
You can see why she made a decision. She did- and I hate to say this and I, probably going to be misunderstood by some people, but just because you file charges against police officers does not mean that you dont, like police or that you hate them or that you don't understand the difficult job that they do day by day ass. She made a statement and I thought she was very clear in that statement. She said this does not reflect all baltimore police officers. This only reflex towards the few that were involved in this situation. I think it's important, because no one should above the law. Well, this is the that that blue line that's been crossed now, earn you don't cross it against any police officer. This is this. Where you get the two sides of the argument where Even the most despicable corrupt police officers. life is worth more than a civilians, too Put it in a nutshell. That is the blue line not coming
but this my own self, I'm actually quoting other police ex police officers that have explained cop culture. To me, So these are my words. This is me, saying what other police officers say about cop culture and that then blue line most be, is not saying that these six officers, now been fired and that she's chaining them up in a dungeon no for eternity all she sang is that she believes that they broke some laws that a prisoner has died in that they need to face trial. They need to go to court. So it is fair. They're going to go to court and we have already seen one man go to court- was william porter was a hunger
miss eyre. I was a mistrial, so that's fair and its fair, because the jury had trouble and I'm sure the average person across the united states the average We cannot run of the mill person is going to probably feel they'll have mixed feelings about this case because they don't like seeing me while dying custody, especially when they haven't throw up a fight, but then they also feel for the officers, because police do have difficult job. It's a mistrial, the first trial to come out of this case, so there are more to come, but to me the his fair again. Most be doesn't she's not saying, let's execute these men or fire them. She sang their suspended, and now they have to face trial, and let the chips ball where they may. So I don't like the idea that anyone's above the law, and we ve seen president's get away with things. We seem congress, men and women get it
with things police, while they have a difficult job, still have to follow the law. So if laws were broken here, then they need to be held accountable and that's for the court to figure out. So I guess what I'm trying to say is that I am on board, but this all the way I see both sides and I think the best way to iron this out is in court. Some of the other it that she has levied against. These men are false imprisonment. this kind of goes to show that they shouldn't have arrested. Freddy that's kind of her point, What these charges is. It was a bad arrest and she says that the knife he had was legal. So here it is, is freddy, looks at the cops and fleas does this give occur probable cause to come and detain you frisk you whatever
she's, gonna, saying no. It doesn't where she saying you detained him because weave given police officers pretty much carte blanche power and authority over us when it comes to them, stopping and frisking us for suspicious behaviour they can determine anything as being suspicious anything because they don't have to have a reason to stop you and frisk. You all they need to do is come up with that reason later, when you're arrested of why he's in a battery a town, He has an arrest record. They I know him because of his arrests and he fleas. Therefore, that gives them the behaviour that they need to go in jason down an frisk him, and then they find a weapon on a knife, so they our legal in what they did. John
These charges work the false imprisonment charges they dont work for me and I'm not saying people should not question what the officers did. I think that's fine question, but legally there. on solid ground and when I was looking into this there's a supreme court case, illinois verses, ward, low where there was a guy named SAM word low, who, after spotting officers, fled and because he would in an area known for drug dealing, they pursued him and they arrested now, I guess at issue here- was where they justified in pursuing him, because it's not against the law to run from the police know as long as you didn't do something illegal prior to that that set
officers onto you. If you see an officer and you turn, you run they're not supposed to just chase you, but in this supreme court case the supreme court ruled five before that. If there are other circumstances such as your and a high crime area, then they can pursue now. This is meant to keep the public safe, I'm sure, but this sets up a problem for me. So legally there right legally, I think the false imprisonment. These are ridiculous. I do, but now I'm saying legally the courts have decided that's the law will hear. It is, though, it's up to the poor secure and judge to determine if the cop had probable cause if the suspicious behaviour, was enough know what I'm saying is the supreme court's already ruled on us. A police officer can track
and they can pursue you if you flee from them and you're in a high crime area, that's in this court case- and this is from two thousand- it's already been settled, but here but here's the thing is, is it then pursuing them in detaining him that's false imprisonment or Let them arresting him for this knife. Tat is the false imprisonment. While we can talk about that to one of the officers apparently at least anonymously said, release a picture of the knife. It's illegal They have not done so have they have not seen a picture of the night prosecutor says it's legal, ok, We don't know again: some people have questioned her motives, I'm sick, to you, it's been said, released which of the knife it's illegal. Now I looked into the laws
They stopped a mass stabbing, that's great on none at all. It's that, but you know how it is in this country, a weapons, a weapon and either have a right to carry it or you down. When I was looking at purchasing a knife to carry, there are certain lengths and styles that you can't just carry on your person yeah now. Why may think? That's a little ridiculous in bulk more they have rules there and if it has a spring to it at all, that makes it illegal. It doesn't matter the length of the night. They could be a really small knife and if its spring, assisted at all No, it's a stupid law that there and yeah. I am going to say right now. I think the laws are stupid, where, whether it's not it's the the link the barrel on a shotgun and ruby ridge or spring loaded knife. I I think it's a ridiculous law, but regardless prosecutor says it was illegal night well again, because haven't released in image of it. I find that she's, she she's the one. That's levying charges,
So if she says it's legal, that's all I got to go on you about that. Charges are in freddy graze favour? Essentially yeah, I'm saying well, but if I look at the michael brown case in that process cuter throws out. Bunch of evidence. and things that would you ever from attorney to attorney. You have no idea if they're on the up and up or not, we have no idea, I'm just saying. Since we don't know what kind of life it was odds are me anyway, I dont know why this knife would prompt and arrest other than They wanted to bring this guy and he he ran They apprehended handed him now they have to arrest him. I mean that's. Their pulled. Job is to arrest people, Why dont know if every officer would agree with that I'm sure some officers. Let people go after they pursue him. It depends on what they find just don't know how a knife that fits in his front right pocket, that's clipped in there as a clip on it is going to be that dangers of a knife that,
they're, like oh yeah, we're going to prevent, as you said, a mass stabbing or who knows what people typically have a knife on them for self defense, yeah specially. If it's clip in your pocket like that, All I'm saying is legally, I think their justified. It's just. I have a problem with some of this, because you- and I were talking about it earlier before we start recording, and you mentioned something institutionalized racism, and I dont know that it's racist thinks alai. This ends up being a result of discrimination poor people. What when people hear the word racist? They hear hatred for race, and when you say institutionalized racism, they just see K. K hey members in positions of office they don't understand that
when you target a certain area, poor area that has a majority minority minorities in it, you target them for the arrest. You target them for the stop and frisk. When, when you go look at the stats for stop and frisks it's fifty two percent after american and then it's like twenty percent hispanic and in whites and everybody else or the rest of the percentages? But it's over half of stoppin frisks are our blacks, Now your remember what I said about the illinois versus ward location. Think about this. There saying it one sees a police officer and fleas. You can't just pursue them, but if there is another factor involved like a high crime area, then you can walk. Where all the high crime areas are where they arrest the most people. This is a problem for me because the law
need to be more fair. I understand whether saying is: oh will have a better chance to catch criminals, but what kind of criminals are these so here you live in a fairly nice neighborhood right I mean, I won't say it's upper middle class, but it's fairly nice. But you you told me about the guy down the street that has the the pick me up truck and the and the confederate flags. Oh he's a he's a few miles from nk so He drives his truck real fast down the road one day. The cops aside to stop him beyond area in they arrest him because he runs stop sign. Now. He has an arrest record now, every time he's driving around in a car behind him. He runs a license plate. Ccs, no rest record pulls him over and starts. Finding issues with him in arresting them and they build up an arrest record because they can just do that now, oh, whose his friends, let's focus, on them. Now, all of a sudden, you are living in a high risk. Crime. Neighbourhood area causes Dave, targeted,
people in your neighborhood and arrested them one off. I got that but I would say that these high crime areas are made up of people who are poor and they do not. The luxury of the same opportunities and choices People who do not live in those areas have, but that's why you just prove my point is data, target. Your neighborhood earn Emmi out, but it kind Laws are being broken, so I'm sure, o trust me white people. just as many drugs is blacks or any other minority right, but I guess what I'm trying to say is that the areas there focusing on the people do not have as the luxury of having this facade you know of being in a coin coordinate. sorry, were you dont you not seeing any problems. Yet there are problems, because in nice neighborhoods the kid standing on the corner in an open air market to sell his cocaine, uses franco and in place xbox for awhile and they do the deal or they have a dinner party.
Where they do it in a different way, where they're, not be targeted by police here here it is. They stop and frisk over fifty percent african american and then once that person those two trial data. higher rate of being found guilty so take the word instead you take the word racism as institutional racism and is put in institutionalized inequality or institutional life discriminate discrimination. I think that's more appropriate and, I would say just as we talked, but on our war on drugs episode, where certain kinds of cocaine that are used in urban areas, versus the suburban areas of crack, cocaine versus regular, completely different law sentencing and sensing laws and look
you're not going to see it if your biased, but if he does open yourself up and just look at the facts in just look at the cocaine situation, is ridiculous. We're talking about the same damn thing just prepared in a slightly different way in our to give one guy basically a warning and any other person gets the book thrown at em. It's ridiculous peer powdered, always we we were going off. Topic fell well short of one topic. Only those we're trying to discuss why people would be upset in baltimore their upset, because someone died in custody when you would think that would be liability now, you would think that they would out were liable. Now they are, they not didn't didn't they pay out money yeah in an eye I'm glad they paid out money. They pay six point: four million as a hefty chunk of change. Now. Doesn't
bring him back, but what it does say is it says we are this sorry that he died under our watch I will pay you all this money. Six point: four million dollars a lot of money. Now People have problems that they paid this out before the cops went to trial. they're saying that by this settlement, pay out it showing that the cops are guilty in that they are. There Big problem with this that's been put out there now I, what do you think, because I have a big disagreement with the I'm glad you do I'm I both sides of it myself. Actually, I I gets on one side, yes by paying it out such a large sum They say: oh well, your disappearing, the mob and you're here showing of guilt and bob offer these cops I wish. They would have paid out and may be had an undisclosed. Some because I am
we! The amount might show guilt. I don't know it's it's a touchy subject. There never could have kept it under wraps the amount, but I'm just saying from a outsider standpoint who- some believe that for some reason, since he was not secured, that he fell and injured himself, basically fatally here that their liable for that doesn't necessarily mean the officers at fault. What I'm getting at is policy this idea of sending out a policy update via email, that's ridiculous. They need to do a meeting where where a briefing all the officers for they had out on patrol. We have this important update for you guys her. You know what errand I dont. Even I've won't even though thou far with it that cop still lie because you didn't check email, sorry, forget all that. I'm saying I'm saying there are liable
yeah man died under their watching their liable for what happened to him, whether it was intentional or accidental they're liable. So for me until they go through the courts and argue in court the remains to be seen whether it was intentional or not intentional, I'm saying they're still responsible because they took him into custody and his life was in their hands to me, it's not prejudicial, I dont think ill effect. These cases because, as we saw with the first, when there is already a mistrial yeah now are people trying to argue that, because settlement was paid out that these people couldn't find for the officers causes basely for the officer. Yeah is now well, they retrial- I don't know, but so far, nothing I was defined what d officers argue, was why their innocent of these crimes
I couldn't find a lot of quotes from them or their attorneys. I could find a lot of things that fox news likes to put out their fox news points out that the the prisoner that they picked up on the way to the police station made a statement. He told the police officers that he heard banging sound, coming from freddy grace. Compartment sounding, like freddy, was trying to hurt himself that What the police officer wrote down from this prisoner statement that got quoted Andy Washington, but is washington, browser the host posts, Washington post? They put this out there and fox News ran what story that this is for freddy hurt himself in the back of the van and they absolutely go. They double. On the story- sense
stories been released. That prisoner has said, I was misquoted That prisoner has said. I was taken out of context. That is not what I said. I heard light being sounds in like moans or something to that effect from that compartment light banging. Compared to a crazy man, trying to hurt himself so big discrepancy between those two comments. Washington, post doctor the article and posted a correction now They do this just to push their left. wing agenda it. Or did they do this because they're like wow, we we got it wrong and we're posting a correction day come out after the autopsy information was leaked or before all after. Well, it was We helped along because the autopsy report, even though it hasn't been made public the information in the has leaked about. It said that he didn't have injuries to his head,
while they he had a single injury to his head from the bolt is what I keep hearing, but if he was really thrown himself around and causing problems, he would have a lot of bruising. But I I have a problem with this because one his ankles and hands are both shackled can be hard for him. This himself around two on multiple stops for this prisoner was picked up, the key, actually wrote in their reports that he is lying on the floor, the van and almost unresponsive before they even got to the police station? So the police reports themselves conch dick a man flopping around hurting himself. So I have to throw out the original statement that he hurt himself in that's pretty much the defence right for these police officers as they please,
in the back of the Van yeah. They they might not have buckled the men, even though they had over four times for opportunities to buckle him in Freddie, asked for medical attention. Multi times at least twice, but probably more in, was denied that medical attention. So that was the that was the defence. I could find any the abbot. That's a defence that their defence, because it's an ongoing investigation because they're going to court, they can't really say anything. their lawyers would advise them not to anyway. But this is the public argument right now, while the public argument is happening with just one side. Essentially it now, you could say the other side is fox news by it. Having watched the fox reports there there rather ridiculous. I didn't care for what what they put out so are, will they they dont biddle mentioned that he was unresponsive before the prisoner was put in place. back of van day
they don't mention a lotta things about that van ride. There no mention the ten years of people, injured in the back of baltimore police vans might be, Longer thou is this, the earliest, when I could find and multiple complaints filed against them for roughly ads. They then mention any of that. They only mention one guy statement that has changed in other huge news. Media outlet has posted a correction for, but again they just run with the original statement. another thing that fox news says was most be overcharge: the police officers to appease the mob and to appease everybody, levied way too many charges against these men knowing what we know and all the cases recover and tie king with lawyers and everything. That's what they do. Is they its way easier to draw up a charge than to add one later? This is just common practice.
so the allegation of she's overcharging them because he has an agenda. She's charging them to appease a mob. No, he's overcharging because it's much easier to drop a charge than had one You cover all the charges? First, and then you drop them as the evidence permits or doesn't permit. I get it. I think it comes down to. You have people saying that he was a drug dealer who cares his life. isn't worth six point: four million dollars and six other officers lives. In love Introduce you to a little activists. Group called black lives matter, they're, not there to say cops don't matter you not like saved those who not saying screw the dolphins you're saying we have a proper, what the whales that we want to address and that's their point is Freddy's life mattered here. We see people the media and the system saying no, it doesn't matter not counted there.
section that there or value of no here it is. This is what stand for this is why we protest and do our thing you. I think this is where there's going to be a missed opportunity. Because you have one side that believes that there's this institutionalized discrimination going on or racism, and then the other side sang, were trying to do our jobs and What I'm saying getting lost is that these systems to do a better job of taking care of not only justifying arrests, because Frankly, if you're under arrest a guy for little knife in his pocket, they find it ridiculous. But beyond that there needs to be respect shown, because if you are trying to enforce laws against a population that does not respect you, then I think your gun
to have more problems, and if law enforcement wants to face greater push back, then they can keep doing this and I'm not saying all precincts are doing, as I am sure there are precincts that are not, and I keep hearing that are precincts are pretty good. Our Kansas please police are pretty good. But yet yet I saw them not buckle in the guy that they arrested right. I mean right. We don't know how not spread this is, but I'm just saying when it comes down to it. The best way to deal with this black lives matter, movement and like that. There needs to be empathy because right now the way things are operating with having the law on your side, it's not working right. So look it's not like these reforms king and saying you should never arrest anybody know shouldn't in where's the laws there just basely saying how come this guy had a die. The response,
from all the experts saying that Freddy gray died aims an accident ah he's in there custody. If he and better ass. If he had been putting it put in a van with no seat belt, he would still be here today, probably yeah well- and here we see wrapped up on one case, The erosion of our rights and institution, racism or discrimination. Are you know I I don't know? I don't like the stop and frisk policy here. To me. If I'm walking down the street, I shouldn't be stopped and frisked. If you have no cause for this, then I don't expect it to happen. Yet they can do it. They absolutely can sadly, my jochen, this thinking sideways frosty thing when I say the cop tells frosty the snow man to stop and he doesn't and now he's. Disobeyed a lawful order, it's it's
the only true in an that's the sad part I mean if, if let's say, police officers had had ip that there was going to be a terrorist attack kc, I airport, then you know what that's severe enough, that I think yeah. You should be able to go, stop and frisk people, because there is an intimate danger here, but for the lowest piteous crimes, I I don't understand how we allow a stop in frisk, pray watch the throwing away of our fourth amendment right for our safety mean for drugs for a pocket knife or sandra bland's case for not using a turn signal, she's getting arrested for this between probable cause, stop and frisk and being arrested for not using a turn signal is the erosion of our rights. Here. I want to be able to stop and frisk real dangers, not not some,
I walk down the road. That's my problem with this is free. really wasn't doing anything wrong, he ran any happens too than a bad part of town jesse as an arrest record. I I I don't see the probable cause for for all of this, he ran. Ok, here's a prior s record. Ok, he had a knife on him. Ok now he deserves to die well ok that might be taken too far, but no I'm not I'm not taking it too far, because I'm reading all the comments on youtube and all the news articles where people are saying this, dude did not matter here. had no value. He did nothing for society. Who cares? he's not worth six point: four million. How the government responds to this issue? That's what matters some guys began. You tube I've read those comments. He doesn't matter. What matters to me is: what are they going to do now
because this guy died, whether intentionally or unintentionally, under their watch. So for me we do need to re, evaluate, in my opinion, yes legally. I have a lot on their side and my problem is how this has become the norm yeah, so I agree that they should not pursue him. It's not like. He stabbed someone. If he had prior arrest, then deal with those in court yeah just because he prior arrest is a main. Oh, he had prior restless get him again mode, but that's what it's turned into that that's right, so that I have a problem with this, but I'm not going to go so far as to say: oh well deserves to die or, however, people are saying it they need to you re evaluate how they interact with the public, yes, especially in high crime areas, because this is unnecessary and what it does sends a message that all because you live here
yeah, you aren't worth it so send a better message, sent a message. It says all people in other lives have value, and the best way to do that is not to treat them like their under your thumb. Constantly and freddy gray would still be here if they did that absolutely I just want to say one more thing with all of the riots, the and in baltimore. One thing I did notice was that Freddy's family spoke out often and said that freddy would not want violent protests occurring in the wake of his death. So I think that's incredible. I think it's great, and I know that they didn't have to say that yet they don't have to say anything they could just sit back, go the socks, but they actually spoke on said freddy would not want this, and to me that shows what kind of mindset
his family has, which is let this let the court's deal with this. Don't take this into your own hands us. Do things the right way. And violence isn't the answer and that's the message of peace, and I think of hope. saying we don't need to resort to this nauseous see what happens. I think it's great so credit to pretty gray and his family. I guess for me, it comes down to I'm not sure what should happen officers, because I can't say I know whether mindset was we can go back and we can see they didn't buckle a man. They didn't try to keep them safe and so, when I see terms and the charges like reckless endangerment, I get it oh absolute. So I guess what I'd like to see this is. I would like to see them try to fix the issues that are there and that's nothing against the officers. That's against the way. It's too.
is the policies, the system, the system and I understand why they charge six officers because all six were involved. now they were all involved indifferent. You know degrees right, but each one of us could have corrected the other ones action you dear officer could have said. Why aren't you Tackling a men the driver could who said we, to go, get medical attention? They couldn't checked and balanced themselves, but they're all on the same side and they're not gonna check each other right and I'm sure plenty of people. There saying the court's won't fix this either it's possible. So is it likely this system change. I would argue not now, and I think it's too bad, because the message, they're sending is keep complaining. Will pay you some money. I will move on and talk about disregard for human life and in its sad, when you
size law enforcement at all, you run into its like. A few good man. You know you can't Well, the truth you can't handle how hard their job is. You would never understand so you can't criticize. Well, I have plenty of respect for law enforcement. All I can say that is if there are issues that need to be fixed, then fixed issues here don't hide behind. While we have a tough job now, I know you have a tough job. I dont know that I can deal with that many different personalities and different criminal types in a given day that doesn't excuse any wrong doing that they may be involved with that doesn't hold yourself to a certain standard, because with great power comes great responsibility, the best way to keep
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Transcript generated on 2022-10-18.