« The Generation Why Podcast

Jason Payne - 370

2020-04-12

December 11, 2007. Quitman, Texas. A call to 911 was made at at 9am by Jason Payne who reported that his wife and his stepson were dead. He had been away from the home with his two youngest kids and had discovered their bodies in their bedrooms. Emergency personnel and law enforcement were dispatched and arrived to find Nichole Payne and her son, Austin Taylor Wages, dead in the home. Both had died as the result of gunshot wounds. Early on in the investigation, though, there was a disagreement as to the manner of these deaths. Was it a double homicide or a suicide & homicide? Join us as we discuss a case that divided both family and law enforcement.

See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

This is an unofficial transcript meant for reference. Accuracy is not guaranteed.
From wondering, I knew agents there either doing just fine justin how're you I'm doing great.
like many of you. We are shut in our houses, so we are recording remotely but still recording, and we wanted to send a clear message out expressing our gratitude to over supporters and listened there's an dumb. We wanted to give a shout out to all those on the front lines working against the coveted nineteen virus, anyone that works in the food industry, medical industry, anything where you have to continue to work. We wanted to give you a big shot out, so thank you very much for all your efforts in everything you're doing with no fees or minimums banking with capital. One is the easy decision in history of decisions even easier than citing to listen to another episode of your favorite podcast with no overdraft fees. Is it even a decision that banking re imagined what's in your wallet term supply see capital, one dot, com, slash bank capital, one in
member of the icy price line. It goes saying that we're all missing travel right now, but you know elsewhere missing getting more for less with price sign. You can save up to sixty percent on your favorite hotels and you can also get exclusive deals on car, rentals flights and more and when you save more, you can do more more wild. View is incredible. More another round of room service, more sorry, boss, I'm going to extend my vacant in price line. Knows every trip is a big deal so when you're ready to book your next one check out price line, dot com for the easiest way to get more how an extent vacations so tonight's case takes place in quick men, texas December eleventh, two thousand and two. Even a mother and son are murdered. But the question is Is it a murder suicide or is it a double homicide nets
where we come in and check out the evidence rideout. Definitely this the kind of case where it really pay. to read everything follow along, because think it's a more these days. It there's some one who is arrested or convicted of a crime. They have supporters, and then they are people who believe that they are responsible. So this is a case that you really want to pay close attention to. So with that. What are we talking about tonight tonight? We're talking about the deaths of, a call pain and her son austin taylor wages, who will probably just call taylor throughout this episode. now. Nicole was thirty. Five years old at the time of her death was a mother of for they had lived in quit men about eight months, and she managed wings of love which released doves at
special events like weddings or funerals, so essentially, you would hire her and she would bring the the birds and and then you could do a photo opportunity to have these white doves flying overhead. It's a powerful image so too, we always say. How can we really remember, this moment and its work things where? Yes, if it's a wedding or a funeral, then These doubts are released, everyone watches, and so it's very captivating, pretty special business. I think she was is the mother of taylor and she had adopted another son named danny and had to other kids with jason. jackson and remington jason p is someone who. from louisiana when he met Nicole, Originally they hit it off
You hear that all the time, but they hit it off some I said they were, I believe there already married before anyone really knew they were getting married and sort of a whirlwind romance I've just weeks, according to Nicole, he very much im a father to taylor and danny danny Ashworth is his name. He would take them hunting or fishing or teach them gun safety. Those kinds of things at some point he got in a really bad car acts, and there was a settlement now, as you know, when there's a settlement lawyers fee, he's come in and take out a bunch of that money, but in the end I think they had the nine hundred thousand dollars they had about three hundred and thirty thousand dollars. That's a good chunk of change. So they were able to get a new home, they paid off their vehicles and he got a boat. Things were looking pretty good
Nicole, of course, was trying to make the place there's decorating and staff. I think they really, I appreciate the land because they had a lot of property for the kids to play on actually had four of them two teenagers and then too, anger ones. Jackson was five his sister remington was too. So, let's go to the events of that morning. What time are they waking up? What what happens well, according to jason. He said he woke up about seven in the morning and got dressed and then what and got his five year old jackson to get him ready for school. He said at that point: taylor was already awake. Jason then took his younger kids in the car because he wanted to take jackson school. Unfortunately, he said taylor didn't want to come, so he remained pack the house, so he took
is sunday school, and then he brought his daughter back. He seventy got home. He remembered that the birds for wings of love, Nicole's business we're out of food, so he said he turned the vehicle around. So we can go back to town and get some food halfway. There. Said his are then wanted to go to the park, and you know it's not like here were to be that day a thinks. Well, I'd get food later, so we thought about going to the park. They decide We can just go back to our house. We have plenty of property, their hack, we go to the creek and throw acorns so they went did that, but then he went inside to go ass, nicole about bird food, but when he went into the home? That's when he discovered that something terrible at her And so it's around nine, a m daddy gets back and he calls nine one, one tells them
at his wife and son, had been shot now, He stays on the line and talks to the dispatcher and they send out invest gaiters and the police, but This is where the things get a little different because they find his wife's been shot in her bedroom and then they find his step son in his bed. Durham but his bedrooms. Unlike up, I guess it's in the garage budgets, they kind of finished off a portion of the garage and that's where he sleeps and they found his body with a lover action rifle between his legs. Both of them have been. to the head, so im empties come out. Obviously there dead, but when the empties get there they notice that nicole is very warm to the touch almost as If she was just shot.
Meanwhile, taylor is cold. So right off the bat there thinking he was the first to die I and she was the second, but the gun is with him, so it doesn't compute with at least the empties. Nor Martin was a crime scene investigator for thee county sheriff's office. He had a different opinion. You know we could talk about the different reasons for that. You have your empties who have their own experience. You have crimes the investment, ears and they have their experience, but no temperature was taken of either victim, so I think that needs to find during here, and even though some said that there already signed of rigour mortis on taylor that wasn't confirm but you gotta realises Nicole. The mother is in aid.
Climate controlled bedroom. That's warm and tailor is in a non insulated bedroom in a garage and as said this is december, so it's called out. This could have a factor on how colder warm they feel to the touch and no temperature was taken and they didn't test. rigour mortis. Yet so it's hard to distinguish what's going on here so that was around nine, a dot m on December 11th, two thousand and seven, when does nine hundred and eleven call went in from jason payne and, of course, investigators want to talk to jason, They want to ask him what he thinks happened and just, and you probably watch some of his interview right I mean the feeling I got was he just didn't know he tried to tell him about some of them.
had been going on in the house of the last the other prior day, and that morning he had said that taylor have complaining about not having a cell phone and seem to be very upset about it, when they asked him, do you think taylor could have done? This could have shot your wife and then shot himself. jason said he just didn't know, which I get, that its is step. Son he's been raising him and you can't imagine that this, happen in your own household? He went on it them about how taylor refused to go in the car with them that morning, when he was taking the younger kids, we could drop jackson off at school it seemed like there must have been something going on there and he didn't have anything really beyond that to say now it was that when he was on the name. When one call he had said that his wife and his steps some were shot
He also said that he never actually went up in touch them or felt for a pulse or any of that and, as you know, it can be very questionable if there isn't a gun right there whether you would know whether someone and was shot or not I just assume that if you love your wife and you and her in a puddle of blood. She would go up and hold her trotted come for her try to find out what's going on, or maybe you think hey Don't want to leave any evidence. I'm just gonna call nine one, there's so many different reactions here. So it's hard to try to assume what his thought This was so. He was also asked to have fun. He could remember anything That was the ordinary when he entered the house. He just knew that his wife and his summer shot
that was essentially at he was he had called for help, but they did record this interview with them and they so about the status of his marriage, and he said it was a great marriage, no marital problems. He said they did have fights over what he called little staff financially said, not a problem, because I received more than three hundred thousand dollars from personal injury settlement. It turns out, in the end, of course, that there, It's a lot more of that story, but all in all when they're talking to him. I think this is where he starts to get himself no about trouble because one he's acting like he doesn't know anything and then number two he saying that his marriage was just fine. There are no problems or they have to take his word for it for now.
but any statements, you're making they're going to come back and investigate that and see if you're telling the truth- oh yeah, that's where he might have been getting himself and to some trouble. Going back to the scene. They didn't find any signs of struggle in the house. They actually found and a shell casing and tailors room which came from the right all that was resting between his legs and they found clothes in the drier that were still warm, so somebody had just done laundry and put closing the drier. I don't know I mean people do laundry in the morning. and then they check on pains truck and in his truck is where they found a washcloth with what appeared to be fresh blood on it.
At that point there thinking, why would you have a rag in your car or your truck? That has blood on it. If you were away from the home when this all down, and you called us immediately- you didn't go to the body, You didn't do anything so wise their blood on this washcloth in your truck. That's A hard won t were explained for him and then they did and expanded search outside of the property and went out into the wooded area and found to large holes doug. They were probably doug with either a backhoe or something and let you say they appeared to be graves You know cycle either a year digging up tree routes or or stumps, or your dad in two holes for what- and this doesn't look good for anyone on the day of.
a murder, suicide or a double homicide, but let's get back to what they found in the truck, though they found a washcloth yeah with blood on it. This is going to be a big deal in this case when they on this washcloth. Everyone who saw it stated that it was bright, red, fresh blood, a quick google search about this case. I found a photo of that washcloth. And in that photo it appears to be bright red blood, so I saw with my own eyes the couple did have life insurance but apparently after they had started that process, some things were discovered, like jason smoking and some other things and they readjusted their policies. they are actually smaller than they had hoped. So what they had was a one hundred thousand dollar life insurance policy on Nicole
we have ten thousand dollar riders for the children and the prime. Beneficiary was jason pain. Now, just because you have the life insurance policy on your spouse does not mean that you murdered them, but this is an going theme. We see in every case it's where the spouses, murdered or die some tragic death and then well. What was the life insurance policy in whose cashing it I do want to? say because insurance always seems to be a factor here that, after his wife and stepson found dead, his insurance aging submitted a claim on his own And when jason was asked to give a recorded statement on their des jason refuse so he was able to collect the money. Interesting turn of events. Yes, Often it seems like there's a pay out time here. He didn't collect the money.
So, let's go further into the forensic stress and because the police at least most them aside from one of their crime scene. Investigators most of them believe that jason has something to do with these murders. That's how their terming it. So there's already one one size saying it was a murder suicide. But then mostly These are saying this was a double homicide. They tested for gunshot residue vs. Are they tested taylor they tested Nicole and they tested jason Now Jason didn't have a spot on em right, nothing! Meanwhile, taylor. He had gunshot residue on autumn. They did find a single power The goal of ts are on the back of tailors right hand, which that could dictate that he pulled the trigger himself,
and got gunshot residue on his hand, or you can just get shot residue on your hand of somebody's pointing a barrel Are you in tat and you put your hand up in the gun goes off. I think they would have expected to find more than a single speck We can get into that as we go on now. The medical examiner doktor Keith tinkered said that nicole's cause of death was a gunshot wound, the back of her head when they compared this wound to the rifle found with austen. It seemed to be a good match. In other words, this thirty thirty rifle that was found between his legs was
the weapon that killed Nicole now this thirty thirty rifle is a lever action. So you have to pull that lever down and cox the weapon and you pull it back and then you can pull the trigger. It goes off and then you have to pull that lever again. It's not that hard to manipulate, but there is something interesting about this particular rifle, which is it has a lever. Safety there's different names for it. Ah, but you have to depress that lever very firmly to disengage the safety in order for this weapon to discharge or fire for taylor's autopsy. They noticed stippling on his face as well as soot, and what that told them was that the rifle
was fairly close to his face, but it was not in contact with his face when it was fired. It was a close range shot so that the question becomes- and this is something that different experts will argue, is how far away from his face was the rifle, because we're talking about what they call a long rifle, and it's not like a hang on you just put it up to your head and pull the trigger, because it's so long you have to be able to reach down to the trigger somehow and aim it towards your head and taylor was shot in the face The idea is if this was a murder suicide, he would have killed his mom gone back to his room. Sat down put the gun. Kind of you know, prompted up on the ground
Put his face over the muzzle and then reach down and pulled the trigger boom. Now you have the length of the rifle barrel and d the trigger. Typically, I would say ya: you could do that. You could totally she herself with this rifle and you could reach the trigger. But this rifle has that tricky safety where you have to depress the lever in order to pull the trigger, and can you do that when you are reaching down at me when you're shooting it and irregular firing position economically, that just since you squeeze aren't you pull the trigger but leaning over the way? and in doing all this pretty much upside down it's possible, but it would he very inconvenient- and I watched a dozen youtube videos,
how to disable the safety on this weapon, because even most shooters or hunters who it's so much because they said that they just weren't even strong enough to do it from a firing position like if a boar or pig ran out in front of them and they had to do a quick shot. They couldn't do it so they disable the safety safety on this gun, because it was such an annoyance. I'm shooters they just don't they like light triggers. Yet be able to pull that trigger as fast as possible on anything that that slows down yeah. They don't want that now, I'm not saying it's impossible I'm just saying that it would be a hard maneuver to pull off if you're dead, set on Shooting yourself in the face. I'm sure you could. Is your leg you're your shoe, maybe something to depress that lever give you some leverage on it and then pull the trigger the
police also noted the smell of gunpowder in Nicole's room. What a contrast to what they found when they went to tailors room because they didn't detected at all there again, if you're going with murder suicide. She would have been the first to been shot and then taylor would have gone downstairs and shot himself. You would expect her body to be cold and you would expect the smell of gun power to act dissipated, whereas with taylor and his room you would expect him to be warmer and the smell of gunpowder or no smell at all in either the rooms. But again we have this different climate and atmosphere and between the garage and a bedroom. Be sure to check out where the crowded sing in theatres July, fifteenth based on the best selling
book comes a juicy mystery full of romance murder and deadly secrets. Daisy Agur Jones plays kyar an outsider, who grew up alone in the marshes of north carolina she finds herself drawn. The two men from town it opens a whole new world possibilities until one of them turns up dead blamed for the murder. the town once answers, but will the truth set kyar free or condemn her forever? produced by reese witherspoon featuring a new original song by taylor. Swift. This is the event film of the summer, see where the crowded being exclusively and movie theatres July fifteenth buy tickets. Now. Small scale food is so fresh. You might mistake, for your own lunch. Now we're not joking this fresh human grade cathode delivered right here doorstep. The protein pact recipes are made with human great ingredients you'd find in your own fridge. You might be wondering
Why can't I just feed my cat? Cable, won't believe it or not. Your cue kitty descended from ferocious desert cats who hunted pray for food. They still need fresh protein pack meals, at their very best for you other cat food brands, know this, but they choose to put their wallets first smalls. On the other hand, work with leading had nutritionists to create protein pact recipe that are exactly what the little fir ball craves and needs errand, Cat banana boat loves the kitty, snacks and the rest of his cats can't get enough of this food higher. quality ingredients mean a healthier and happier life for your kitty. Try small today customize your sampler through a short ways at small doc. Slash generally for total. Fifteen dollars off your first order that small calm suggestion why code jen? Why so was about ten months after these two das, when the police made their move, they arrested jason pain on two counts of murder
his wife, Nicole pain and his step son. Sixteen old austin taylor wages, so they just did they had enough evidence for double homicide? So we're gonna go to trial right, right and there wasn't. There was a probable cause affidavit that was issued. This affidavit basically talks about the forensics well, as the interview that jason paint did the suspicion two large holes that run the property. Again, it looks bad ivy, to see any kind of explanation for why they were there. We we should go, and saying- and this is something I think that comes up during the trial, but there were witnesses that testified to seeing those two holes within a week or two of the murders. So was that early enough there they were there for another reason, something maybe he was planting, trees or
soon enough, where he was preparing to graves for this murder. We don't know, at least from the outset. I think a lot of people looked at him and said. Why would her son shoot her? In other words, Why would taylor shoot Nicole? What was it about? in pain that people are suspicious of him. The whole dear of murder, suicide. You have to taylor as the shooter and the only motive they could find for the sun would be he was upset about a cell phone or upset about not getting his way about something, that's I mean we know. Teenagers are impulsive, teenagers can be reckless, but what
we have as far as motive for jason, because cell phone okay, I can get it whatever. But what do we have on the other side of the fence so at the trial- and this is something that's very controversial. Sarah hawthorne, Nicole sister in law, gave testimony about things that Nikola told her one of the things that she told her was that jason had threatened to burn her alive in the house call it also begged Sarah to avenge her. If anything ever happened to her, she even said that the very night before Nicole died, pain had threatened a killer again now this is disputed because they're trying to insinuate that she's, not a fan of jason pain, or she's just trying to help with this murder investigation. So she's lying in making all this up. But there was
no real problems between jason and Nicole and just in one side. I can see that by their defence. I think is mostly upset because well now calls not dare to question about these state hence so in other words, is here say: that's their argument is Nicole, said, jason said this: technically that's hearsay, but the core who is possibly the victim is telling her friend this what's going on, so she is a witness. She is one degree from there,
I understand what you are saying is that somebody else telling you what somebody else said, but that's interwoven with her seeing how nicole is behaving her, observing the coals, behaviour and Nicole saying my life is being threatened. That's not your say that's directly from Nicole, but again we have not to back this up because the coals dead. They did have a lot of forensic evidence that they are using. This is really circumstantial case, but they had the bloody washcloth they had the suspicious holes. They had the time line, which you know when you look over the timeline, the only peep all that jason have had to deal with if he was responsible for these das were his too a daughter and then that son and his wife by his own account the two year old was outside alive. It sort of
fits right. And then you also have he's completely clean. saying that there were no marital problems, no financial issues, but then you find out that within like eight months, they had burned through almost every bit of that, some money and they didn't really have any money coming in the autumn. money they had coming in was from her dove business, which I'm sure it pays well. But how often do people get married? How often do people need that or want that niche sort of thing? Meanwhile, they had close to four hundred thousand like three hundred fifty four hundred thousand dollars in they blew through it in less than a year. Wow. One of their bank accounts was overdrawn. Another one had, I think, like six thousand dollars in it. I I don't know. I mean obviously
They probably bought a house in a boat outright in cash, but man they went right to that money without planning anything. So the argument, his motivation would have been they don't have any money. Things are. Spiralling and I can kill her and collect. the life insurance or I can kill her and just now have to deal with this situation any longer. But the flip side too. That argument is had money, they had six thousand dollars and in their one of their bank accounts and they work fighting so what're. What's his motivation here, I'm proud not doing justice for either side of that argument, because there's so much more to unpack, but in a nutshell, it's hard to I guess way that one out I just get somebody spinning that type of money that quickly is reckless and any time
I'm you hear about somebody that wins the lottery or you know college athlete getting an nfl contract, whatever it is whatever kind a windfall money someone receives it causes stress. You think I guess all this money, all my problems are gonna be solved. My life will be good, no there's a whole other set of problems that comes along with that, and you mentioned that he bought a boat was nicole on board with buying this boat. Dont know Well and that's part of it too was he went to sell the boat and selling it about five thousand dollars cheaper then he would have wanted to because he needed to get rid of a quick. It really to be the case. I hear the money. The old. Saying is fear. The two happiest days are the day you by the boat. In the day you you sell the boat because they cost a lot of money to dark maintenance.
And I remember I went out with a friend I offered to pay for the gas Yes, I agree sure you want to do that. I said: have you taken us out we're having a good time just to fill the gas tank over five hundred dollars was just to piddle around for a weekend was not cheap. Several the trial comes down to. There are a lot of important things here. Does the wash authors, a timeline, there's motive, there's the gunshot to do tat, but really what this came down too? I believe was the firearms experts and there's a disagreement between the prosecutions, expert and the defence The expert the prosecution is saying that this gun was fired from about twelve inches, give or take too and the defence of saying no. This was about four inches. Now the prosecution did have an expert
tested the same rifle now. Thirty thirty. Same type. Same model. Everything and shot it from different distances to see the soot and the stippling marks from the rifle and that's where they got their numbers. Now the defense didn't quite, do it the same way. They more or less focused on which position taylor would need to be in two fires, weapon, you already said it had a safety on the prosecution said in order to fire that gun he would have had to have used both of his feet. Probably he'd have to push down on the their safety and then fire the weapon with his feet, and there is no indication from taylor socks that he had used his feet in such a manner. Now the defence says look
when he falls when his feet fall away. It's not like the socks record. The event, my opinion would be a different than that, probably by there was nothing seen on his feet. Then they set its possibly used his hands, but again he doesn't have gunshot residue on his hands. He has one speck. He had blood on his hand, and that became another point of contention, but really they had this over the rifle and whether this was a suicide after a murder or a double homicide. I actually think that both the prosecution and defence have valid points here. If you take in context that he was killed where his
body was found. It would be really hard for him to shoot himself with this rifle not impossible, but implausible meanwhile for someone else to shoot him in this same angle, the same trajectory would be next to impossible, also burgess unlikely, but not impossible. So the prosecution opens up to he might not have been murdered there. This whole scene could have been staged and the defences saying why, If you say he wasn't murdered there, they, where was he murdered, there's no other blood found in the house. You have this conflict and I get both of their arguments. I actually can agree with both of their arguments
you can test this gunshot over and over again and get pretty close to how far away this barrel was from his face, even if it was twelve inches. I still think he could have done it but doesn't mean he did well. Let me say that at twelve inches, it'd be pretty tough, because we're talking about a foot length, he would have to be able to depress the trigger and the safety and keep his face over the rifle. It's along
rifle. I guess that's kind of an issue there. Do you think yeah? I absolutely do the prosecution's experts said the way to explain why the bullet went through the lip and out the back of taylor's head was. If someone points a rifle at you, you will put you a pull away, and so, if he was shot as he was backing away falling away, then it could have went to that trajectory. It is odd, but it does explain it and the other issue they have at least the defense has is: if Jason payne did this, he would have had to have shot taylor. The sun first I mean. Obviously his body is cold and he more of a threat. This is a pretty loud rifle, but how do you sleep through a gunshot like that? So Nicole slept through this and anyway
stairs and shot Nicole again his where the prosecution saying or maybe he wasn't killed there. It's a question. But essentially this case is decided with the jury having to take 'em. Both sides m information make a determination here. What are they find justin while they found him guilty and him to life, and this is texas. I'm surprised, you didn't get the death penalty, but you know they didn't seek it and you know no. You could get a lot of true crime aficionados to talk. about this. They would say: if you don't seek the death penalty, Ex everything smooth there this is what they decided to go with, was life in prison as the punishment, but a court of appeals said that there was a pause
along with this trial, and it had to do with Sarah hawthorne? They said that her testimony was so harmful, that jason pain deserved a new trial, and I understand legally that argument of hearsay. I find it interesting that this cause a retrial, aunt em in the second trial, the prosecution It brings out more witnesses to talk about jason, thad, pains, demeanor attitude and behavior. This is interesting because if you felt that the original witness was lying was being ah was just there to help the process, get a conviction was exaggerating the abuse of nature of jason pain, just pretty much being untruthful in general. Will you can throw her testimony out, but
Are you willing to throw out the next? How many This has come in, earn well family friends, one of primary witnesses was another friend of nicole's named andrea Scott. She was around when Nicole got with pain originally and saw the kids grow up. She gave different accounts like one time she said: Jason was holding his daughter, and he told his daughter to tell her mom that she hated her and then to hit her to which according to Andrea Scott. The little girl did do that. She did just what her father told her to do. She said that pain had a strict curfew for his kids depending on where you read. It is either eight or nine o clock and they're. Not. If the rooms after that time and as the time where taylor got out of his bedroom and went to the bathroom jason jumped up
damn it pushed him up against the wall and put his hands on his throat and then pushed his fur. Send to his and said you can't go to the bathroom, go back to your room, so very controlling household yeah and that's where more friends and family came out and said when Nicole was on the phone, she would have a whisper she would have snake after the bathroom are going to a closet. She said that jason was in Ably controlling didn't want her talking to anyone. It seem like it was not a secret nicolet even talked about divorce, so this is just reinforcing his abusive behaviour from multiple different witnesses, the defence they can say none of these people credible. All of these people are friends or family members. Of course, they're gonna say these things, but allow
out of their testimony gels and I don't feel like they got together and said: oh yeah, let's talk about her whispering and calling from closets their testimonies pretty powerful. Along with that, we didn't really talk about de whitewash, cloth with the blood on it, and I wanted to bring that up real, quick. The defence is saying that that washcloth with the blood was old and the blue
on it was dried, was brown, and so it wasn't fresh and it was from a wound dad Nicole, had received prior to this event. What was a day of fishing hook? Fishing lure got caught in her face. Essentially it got caught in her neck. They claim that this washcloth could have been used to stem the bleeding the problem with that, though, is none of the people who looked at this other than that offend. Says, set it looked old, they said this was fresh blood and you know take blood set it out for two months. Unless you are looks like I saw a pitcher of it, it looked fresh to me and I wasn't even there. I just saw a photo of this washcloth. It was bright, add, and I understand that it's a photo. So it could be misinterpreted
could use filters on it and brightened things up, but this was a crime scene photo. I dont think they're manipulating that so for trial to they're, bringing up all the forensic evidence. So is the defence they're bringing in witnesses who can testify to people's behaviour? it seemed ass, though the only real witness that their defence brought entered testify about pains I view the way he lived, how he it is family was danny Ashworth, he squarely in the corner of jason pain and said that there is nothing out about the family. He said sure we went to bed on school nights, but he's there is no such thing as a curfew, and he said never saw a disagreement between a coal and pain which I find interesting? I mean it's. If you that Nicole's family is coming in and lying and
Saying these things to be on her side wall. Is it that far va stretch that in one on jason side would come in and say this is a good person. I mean it's the same logic, correct yeah, it's just that the prosecution has many more witnesses, and now they have Andrea Scott. They have jennifer rogers Morton at Michel beecham. They have these different people coming in on cleaning nicole's mother, We're all talking about the way the call was on the phone and how really seen her in a while, because according Nicole she wasn't allowed to go anywhere. She wasn't allowed to really talk to people, so we know kind of behavior the says we covered it. We covered the power case. Josh Powell was very controlling, this isn't something that's unheard of, but it definitely gives him a motive. And so once again the jury,
taking all this information with the trajectory of the bullet and the rifle and weather, been fired by some one to kill themselves and who had a motive. They also had something very interesting that was submitted into trial, which is a phone conversation between jason pain and his mother. Now this First conversation any refer to something. That's indeed night stand, and he says, are those two things still there and she said. Can you tell me and pain said there are two of the same thing in their any indicated that he wanted her to locate the thing that was made out of hard plastic and she says yes and assent These as I want you to destroy those in interesting,
oh, she responded term, and she said that It makes certain to do what he wanted there talking in code right now gather talking code so because He knows this is going to be easy dropped on, but its very shady- and you can imagine what the jury thinks hearing this So now that she knows kind of what she's looking for she said did they belong to taylor and he said now- and she goes- I've got the video of your in aka duchess you and to call this is a good one. I've got one, that's bad, I got it in there jason told her. There should be two of those in air. So there's this long conversation, because she, because you're talking about And she's now real good at that, apparently or maybe he's just not good, it gluing her an they. Have this
long drawn out conversation essentially about these tapes are in there and two of em he needs them destroyed. So in the end, He apparently pulls them out and he says he. I want you to pull all the insides out, throw em some leaves or something and burn it and do it is as we hang up. You know it's funny is if would have just said, hey mom, Can you go in there and throw away all the vhf tapes or throw away all the tapes? Probably wouldn't have sounded that in a fairy Sprawly wouldn't sounded that her europe's specious, but instead people trying to make some sort of drug deal on the phone there like do. You have the guy? mean or revenue herb in the bag. For me like no I have the black dog runs at night. You know it's like.
There is obviously something going on in this conversation is obviously something that does not make him look very good was their away from to do this without a learning authorities. I don't know man, I think, what you're trying to say- and I agree with- is he did at the exact opposite way of the way he should have done it. This literally him waving his arms and saying: hey everybody, I'm doing something something wrong here. So I really just don't understand now, of course, it offence. They didn't like that. This was entered into the trial. most of you know. I've been an audible subscriber for like a decade now, audible offers an incredible select of audio books across every genre. I personally love the audible originals. They have everything from top celebrities down experts and as an audible member, I get access to a growing selection of audio books, the originals podcast, it's all included in my membership
I get one title a month to keep and I get to hear exclusive podcast that I can't find anywhere else I just but the audio book anti social about online, extremism, techno utopians and the hijacking of the american conversation audible hope. You discover new ways to laugh, be inspired or be entertained. New members contrived for free for thirty days does audible dot com, slash gaeta, BP were text gaeta, BP, two five hundred five hundred, that's audible, dot com, slash cheetah, BP or text gaeta BP, two five hundred five hundred to try audible, free for thirty days, audible a calm, slash, J, w p, there is a lot of other testimony from different people. The family physician testified that, Nicole always taking symbolic her for depressed, and started that in march of two thousand seven that's the year she was murdered there is
also testimony from todd wages that was Nicole's first husband, taylor's dad. He said that Nicole had halted is visitations at times or just really limited them and eventually told him hey. You know. Maybe taylor in easily with you, but that's they will be two hours apart. So he did ask taylor. He said I think we're gonna need to move you I'll just run back to nicole's. He said he needed to be with his mom, and I that doesn't surprise me. You know sucks for the dad, but just to think that he almost was moved and one have even been in the house at that time if you believe that he was murdered, of course yeah the, fence will say well, there's all this turmoil between visitation. This new father in his life and not being able to get a cell phone. This is what set this kiddo,
there was also a lot said about because laptop when they found what they determined to be flirty emails. We in ex boyfriend named dmitri nobles. Well, you know what they could determine from that, which was nicholls now b and now she's reaching out to an ex boyfriend. She still kind have liked and was talking about her issues with them. So it showed that there is definitely a problem with the marriage. Unlike jason who had said that there were no issues in the marriage and just imagine jason, was that controlling and then came across some of these emails, or course annonces with another man. How do you think he's going to respond to that? Well and when they looked at the emails, apparently nicole and jason, shared the email account that she was using to send these emails and when she got her, eyes she would delete them, but see
just as you know, and probably most people buy now when you delete an email, it goes in your trash for at least say about thirty days, because this case went to get back but Why is she sharing an email account? We might have nurse. You say why share an email account with my husband, but maybe they share one because Jason's controlling, maybe so it's possible that this was another motive. It set him off, They had other witness testimony from people that new taylor ends comments about him range from very mature for his age. Very polite, very courteous, a positive person, a friend of his attended school with them even said that taylor was talk you will college, so nothing, really. stands out that that taylor was unhinged, angry or had any kind of motive,
to do a murder, suicide jason is convicted and of course he has problems with these conviction selling. Of course he says oh they're, using here say they didn't use ie properly the jury ran on their emotions. You name it which, for I understand the jury took exception to his comments because they really had away the evidence out. You know the courts, they were not pathetic to jason pain, because the way they looked at it, you're the one on the phone Mom saying these things, you're the one who's defence team is trying to say your step, son, committed murder and then took his own life, but we don't have a motive for that. I mean you're, saying that there were some arguments going on, but we have a
whole line of people over here. You know friends and family classmates, all kinds of people who are speaking about taylor speaking about Nicole. And it doesn't fit- and really, I think in the end, this really came down to the characters, the character, I have austin taylor wages or the character of jason. That pain and I believe that the authorities and the jury all believe that taylor had better character. So when it came down to it, could taylor do this good jason do this, would taylor do this? Would jason do this? They settled on jason. What do this any did do this yeah and let's ad, in the evidence here, his clothing was found. In the dryer the morning of even his jacket. I might wash my jacket twice a year, because the jack is just not something that you,
decide to wash on a daily basis, so really bad timing to do laundry that morning, and he never specified that here. doing laundry that morning and let's go over. His statements that morning he was dropping off kids at school with his two year old daughter and then they decided to go. Skip, rocks and a pond or acorns or acorns whatever on a cold december morning really- and it just happens to happen at the same time, as your stepson committing I'm a murder suicide, then your phone with a bloody rag or washcloth in your truck also the rifle used in the murder. It just happens to belong to tailor the steps on so that we would conclude that well, that's the the rifle he knew how to use. So why
wouldn't he use it during this. This murder suicide, but it's so inconvenient to fire that thing. There are other weapons in the house. I dont If you're familiar with this one rifle, you can pick up a handgun and go to town with it. It doesn't take a rocket and test, you figure out another weapon, especially if you're proficient in one kind of translates to others. It's not hard to put a gun to your head. No, it's not! it's no no special position. You have to be in with his rifle the length of it and where he, after reached down to depress that safety and the trigger I'm just yes, I'm speaking out to people who are supporters of jason pain at this point, How many there are, but when you left all the evidence and we usually check boxes year. Asking us to believe that this kid who had no prior indication of any major problems like this, that will cause him to shoot
somebody and even his own. I welcome his brow. but Danny Ashworth said, I've seen him shoot that rifle before doesn't sound like someone who's shot at a lot and all set. he's going to use it to kill his mother and then himself in such a way that experts are having trouble agreeing on what exactly happened. on the other hand, we a parade of individuals who are testifying that Nicole, was afraid of jason. And he was controlling that he threatened her life on me applications and she was planning to divorce him and she was flirting with an ex boyfriend. Would you throw in the washcloth at this point and then a jacket a coat. Then offence was trying to say you know: that's not going to get rid of blood, necessarily well guess what in this case, is not about the blood he's using
I, for my guess, is he's getting rid of gs. Are gunshot residue he's just getting rid of any evidence that he can and even calling his own mother to get rid of evidence even after his incarceration that might be used against him? It looks really bad. I read everything on his innocence website the website that supports him. I found some issues there. I've I read through it and tat yeah. You know that the way the rifle was held as it would be impossible for someone else to murder tale. if he's sitting there, you know on the edge of his back or wherever he was in his bedroom in that angle, that trajectory. But if you remove him from that room that angles and not really hard to to come,
what if he would have asked tailored ago, shooting with him out in the woods and then pulled the trigger on taylor and tailor flinched, and that's why it's the entrance wounded kind of on his cheek. Instead of his mouth and we have shot residue on his hands. Costs may be put his hands up, that's believable and guess what all the blood spatter back, spatter all that that happens out in the woods somewhere, and that would explain why there wasn't a lot of blood in his room. That would explain how he would have been shot that way, and that would explain how nicole didn't hear the gunshot. It didn't happen in the house, but the idea was if he did get him outside meaning taylor with the idea of let's go shoot, then his wife, Nicole, would have back to her gunshot yeah. That was the idea if he lured him outside and she's, not in the
eyes or because she's already heard a gunshot or two or three or whatever, and now she's not expecting anything. So she has her her back to him. Essentially, I understand that the innocents groups feel that these crimes, in photos showed the rifle was indifferent positions during each photos, meaning the crime scene was tampered with, manipulated or tainted. Now We know that a lot of crime scenes do get trampled an end tainted, but at the end of the day, all we have is the evidence found on him, so I dont care where the rifle was at this point, he's been shot with said rifle. How far away could he be shot with that rifle at what angle? I don't care if one of the copse kick the rifle, were during the investigation. It no longer matters because we know it, He therefore inches away or twelve inches away, but it wasn't pressed up against him and, if
going to kill yourself, especially with this lever action with the really crappy safety on it we're just assume that you would want that pressed up against you see you get more leverage to depress the lever, so you can pull the trigger they say that jason pain was railroaded even if Jason did not? commit this murder and was wrongfully convicted. I'm gonna go on the record and say he. not railroaded. They found him guilty fair and square. Based on the evidence based on testimony because you're wrongly convicted doesn't mean you are railroaded. They did a good job here and I dont believe that he was wrongly convicted, because any other explanation in this case is pretty far fetched to me. When the appeals court was trying to decide whether he had a case to get it overturned, they actually his sword and inference a lot. They talked about how they depended upon the jury, because a jury was weighing the evidence out,
you know to imagine that somehow take There was behind this when there's, no no evidence of that at all, and then you have a lot of tests. We're going against, say some pain and the way he behaved and how controlling he was alex. Really bad, so he's found guilty, but that's not really where the story ends, because his mother Jason his mother, who we talked about earlier, her name is jewel pain. She went for a car ride with her niece. This was before the trial she had talked to her about how she like her needs to find a man to go to a lady and scare her now, Eighty she's talking about as an empty that arrived. The scene after an eye when one call job and was asking her niece. They get someone who could threaten this woman and retract her statement because she was making statements that were not good for jason, in other words, witness testimony from the crime scene. She said
add look into her background and see if she has a child or someone you could threaten or harm wow and her niece recorded this and even told jewel. She said this sounds like a crime and jason's mother responded. I know it. Son, is innocent or if the person you are advocating for is innocent, You need not resort to criminal actions to prove it. You need not resort to, witness, intimidation or violence. Truth will out right. You need to focus on evidence. You need to focus on legal representation, and not threatening other people, but here she was taking it. Second: action for jason, the first: was destroying these tapes and then the second One was trying to get someone to threaten a witness, I know about you, but
it seems like the deeper you look into this case, the worse it gets for jason pain. I think. I would encourage everyone who is interested in this. So has more questions to keep reading on it, because I know that one things that I found his daughter who putting that morning with her name's remington? Well, she went to a therapist and she just happened to tell the therapists that daddy killed her mommy and brother people that support jason will say. That was the whole argument going on. That's what he's going to trial for that's, why he went away because he was accused of this, so she was just repeating what she heard. Well, according to the therapist, the child said she saw her daddy shoot her mamma brother changes. Everything is very unsettling. I think about it. People put on a face for others, and it could be that most people that Jason new
he was this great guy, but I dont know there are a lot of people out there that didn't care for jason pain and they let the jury know about it. One last No because business wings of love where she released, said, funerals at weddings, these doves, her precious doves were released at the funerals for herself and for her son,
The. In nineteen sixty nine, a vicious and seemingly random, killing spiraea in los Angeles shock, the nation and when the killer
we're. Finally caught the nation even more shocked by who was behind the gruesome crimes? I will grant the host of wonders, podcast american history tellers. We take you to leave. times and people that shaped america and americans, our values are struggles and our aims. In our late, a series of fail musician turned quoth leader named Charles Manson, turns his young hippy followers into blood, thirsty killers and exposes the dark side of the peace and love generation. American history tell the demands and murders is a wonder he plus exclusive to listen to this special three part series join one reads: in the one app
Transcript generated on 2022-07-09.