« The Generation Why Podcast

Josh & Susan Powell - 280


West Valley City, Utah. December 7th, 2009. Josh Powell took his two sons camping at 12:30am so they could have s'mores. This wasn't a typical trip to take during a snow storm and on a Monday morning, but stranger still, no one was told about this trip. Not his employer who expected him at work. Not the daycare where his sons should have been that day. His wife, Susan, also missed work. The boys' daycare worker did her best to contact the parents of Charlie and Braden, but no one answered these calls. By the time Josh returned home in the family's sole vehicle, a minivan, police were waiting for him. His wife was nowhere to be found. As detectives attempted to locate Susan Powell, Josh's behavior and recent activities caused them to be very suspicious of him. A search of the Powell home turned up a safe deposit box key and led them to a note written by Susan herself the year before. What happened to her? In her own words she described a controlling husband who may harm her or even their children. Was Josh Powell capable of this? And what about his father? Eventually convicted for possession of child pornography and voyeurism, he had seventeen notebooks filled with his desires for Susan Powell and a large collection of photos and videos taken of her without her knowledge. Control, anger, obsession and alliances combine for a true crime case almost too crazy to be believable.

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This is an unofficial transcript meant for reference. Accuracy is not guaranteed.
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thinks that she ran off with somebody or been abducted. He doesn't know, but after that point things start to spiral out of control until they crash and burn. Let's talk about who these people are. You have Susan Cox, her parents were shocking judy. She had three siblings they're. All sisters Susan in particular, she seemed to be closest to her sister Denise they're, both really animals soon, was known to be in aspiring cosmetology rest. She loved style and color hair. She would give people Many cares and petty cures, usually her friend and family, and so sometimes people would regret not because was bad at which he did, but she definitely wanted to make people look good and times that is a little different than what they wanted. Cider go overboard with a nail color
the moral over war with the scissors by she definitely look. doing this kind of thing and in factors Mr Denise, She shared this in a way because when they were younger, they came up with a plan and the plan was to open a business some day known as beauty and your bees. and it was where you could go- get your head we down or get salon stuff done, and then would bring your pat and then they would get treated to a son on treatment to this kind of fun, So it is really cool idea, but of course it never did come to fruition. susan would later go to cosmetology school. They said that she It was the kind of person that would blow up a room, and people really took to her and she always wire one to be happy to smell those good people that you hear about some time. The other person at the center this case is Josh powell, while
Susan has this great fan great life. Josh Powell didn't quite have that he was born January twentieth, nineteen, seventy six same year, I was born yes these five years older than susan, he grew up. Spoken. Washington, washington state the birthplace, known for fathers day a little foreshadowing here, Josh his parents, didn't really get along and over overtime. It just got worse and worse to where they were divorced. It seemed ass, though job shrilly preferred to stay with his father, but it was. Very, very difficult relationship, because according his mother, you know Steve Powell, took it out on josh, worse than any of the other kids. So he had various siblings. There was Michael. There was alina. There is jennifer of those
Josh was the one who got hit by his dad It was rough and didn't day kidnapped. Kids from each other yeah, his parents would separate, and one would want to see the children and the other would be like now, you're, not seeing the kids this week. So that they were going kidnap the kids and take them. Just one amber alert after another from these two parents. That Josh is being brought up by now. quite possible. This is because he was experiencing a rough household by as it nature. He killed pet durables and at did to take his own life and he also threatened is mom with a knife, so some violence there showing through in his ten years. Also at this This case is religion, because both these families started off pretty
let us now there were mormons church of latter day saints and, Josh, his father Steve at some point decided he hated. This religion you grow up in it as a child, you're still a part of it. So I was still mormon but nah. He, you will soon grow to be like his father his father, would rant about this church. Of course he would. He would say some, pretty awful things about his wife now. This is not uncommon when couples separate or divorce, but he was pretty pretty mean spirited and then his wife would return with well Oh yeah he's accusing me of being a witch because she kept some herbal books in just some of the things that she was reading. He considered to be wrong, but hurt and she would say: oh well, Steve has pornography there.
Which is worse. Somebody that keeps you a book. out cloves and spaces around as opposed to pornography, but no double standard yet is tricky to figure out what exactly is going on here because you get into, who has custody, and all of this, if you following any rules, we were that goes with this couple with the weather. Acting it, because they don't like each other at all one. It came out was Josh and his brother, they were being exposed, It's pornography because well Dad was leaving it out for them you showing it to them. So there is definitely a con Crass between these two people between Susan Cox and Josh Powell they're going to meet each other at some point. but before that ever happened? Josh I'll showed up over the cox's house and its because lessons older sister was going to prom, and he
wanted to show up to take her out on a date, but she's already going with somebody else right Judy I'd telling him soon his mom, I'd tellingham look she's out its problem. I don't know what you're going for here, but she's already got a date well and of leaving Josh just add himself into their house and he sat down and started to talk and this is something that anyway, who ever met Josh, said that he would just talk and talk and talk. until people's ears literally fell off well, not literally bed I'm sure everyone's met. Someone like this, you can just keep talking and at some point, you're almost slake. Why are you still talking- I have to say that I'm very patient and in very tolerant of people, but you're twenty thirty minutes and you haven't got into the punchline, I'm probably out. If you get it,
let me say I have to go returns and videotapes so eventually Susan's dad chuck gets home, he's leg What are you doing here? and so you know his wife is like hey, he showed up and he won't leave and meanwhile Josh is still talking away and so chuck eyes the interrupt him and you say, you need to leave my house and he didn't railway, it took a while. So You can imagine that at some point susan talks to her parents and says I met this guy. Well, that didn't go over to They met at a dance at the church, right yeah, there was an elder yes day, saints singles event, the I understood it was Susan, you know, looked at as well. It's something to go, do and knows. Maybe she would meet somebody.
And so she goes to the singles event in its in two thousand the course she comes back she lots and know that she's met this guy and she she tell then who he is and their thinking I no. They don't and back in their house. You know they have to talk to him again. it's a year later, when they get married just outside portland, they were- married Inverness, ale, washington, which is, suburb of spokane near the ida a border, its april, six two thousand and one when they get married in beef. or this all happened, Josh met with shock. You know chucks in that, That position of I love my daughter, I want what's best for her, and this guy is not what's best for her. but on the other hand, if I Try to push him away too hard, then I could lose her. You just pushing your daughter away at that point.
Relationships can be so difficult, especially when your factoring in parents in the best thing to do is try to manage and that's what they're doing here so he sat down with Josh and he just said Josh you're going to marry my daughter. What are you going provide water you bring to the table essentially job I guess he had a lot of good answers. Chuck was talking. whose wife later age is basically said. You know, I don't think I ll this guy, but by now he's he's going to do this he's gonna do that is in a work and he has a place. So what am I supposed to say am I supposed to tell her, she can't marry the sky that she loves. Yes, well, yeah. We could say that, but as a parent you have that fine line of you want them to be independent. But you also feel like you can see things better than they can so that with their wrestling with by sea. In Josh they move this apartment together. Well, Josh is,
good keeping jobs so not delivering on all these promises. You may know the disgust, thing is steve power. His father when he was at the wedding. He told one of his kids that Susan wasn't going to stay with Josh she was going to do. Some he already could tell he also said she's not going to bring any real money into the household. How is she going to take care of Josh? when Steve knows Josh can't hold a job and so If he's going to marry someone, he thinks that job should be getting wife, who can take care of him but speak clearly what steve means here that his son Josh deserves a woman who will take care of the house and bring home the money, because he knows Josh is not going to anything, but it is his son and he loves the sun. So he There are some one that will take care of him moving forward because Josh can't keep a job.
He's not go with money. They have to move into his dad's house added. point. You know his father doesn't live with his his white mean they're they're separated their divorced, so they're moving in with Steve Powell, Well that doesn't go well either because Steve develops in interest and Susan there. Was beyond oh wow. What a wonderful daughter in law that I have here, hear what, behind her when she's in the kitchen, washing dishes and slip his hand up her shirt, touch her and say things to her it's an uncomfortable situation, Susan, does her best is stand by her husband and to keep everything on an even keel. She just can't live with us and she's mortify by it says she goes your husband and says we can't live here anymore. In fact,
I want to move far far far away. They leave his father's house and they move. Several states to utah january nineteenth, two thousand and five there. Have their first child charles joshua pow, He goes by charlie and he's born salt lake city, you outta, now to give you an idea when they had left his father's house. Susan made it clear that she didn't want him to have anything to do with his father because Yeah she was just so this lastly, with his behaviour- and she thought a bad influence on her husband. So, for a while there. He didn't really have anything do with his father when charley was born here at finally feeling is that it was. It was well after the fact, your courses dad was hurt by this but according to susan up until the birth of charlie and
after they moved away from his father. She felt that job. She was a very good husband so like when they would give money to the church which He was kind of suffering from the same thing is dad did in terms of he had some issues with the church, but because he knew it was important for her. He supported giving the church money. I think they call it hiding something that where there is a certain amount that you're supposed to be a response to give in She also is a member of the choir. He would Her hand It was a more loving relationship. I think that was one of the ideas was get him away from his dad and then establishing new life somewhere and then they. work on themselves, but then charlie according to susan. This is when Josh's ways start going back to the ways of the past and
this is something her mother brought up to- she felt like susan- wasn't marrying Josh because she loved him. She was married because she thought she could help him it's called the messiah complex where you gonna fix people. You know you can date somebody there's all kinds of red flags and stopping like. Oh, I can fix them, guess what you can fix them because I'm around, though be happier I can make their life better then, if I wasn't around, but you are not a therapist, you are not qualified exactly so you can fix them just walk away and find some that doesn't have as many red flags but being a member of this church, I think the time they use. There is ward. She has a lot of supportive ladys that attendance urge to, and so they spend some time around each other helping each other out. I guess, even though
Susan's, not quite happy with her husband. At this point she is doing the best she can, and I think, she's trying to be understanding like, maybe he's just going through a rough patch. You know he'll come around and she still faithful to the church, so she's been good. Why she's? Being a good mother? That's her belly! system, but Josh he's not really going to church much anymore and becoming resentful. So big divide is happening in two thousand and seven. The couple has Second, child braden timothy power. It was also boy in salt lake city January second, which is right next, to Charlie. I mean they're both born in january, so it said that she knows when the conception happened, because Josh would hold back affection,
and sex from her. So she knows exactly the date that charles in britain were conceived. Josh told people about this too told his family if, if I'm angry with susan in all, does teller we're not going to have, x for a while, so he would differ withhold affection, sue. And of course is trying to get him to be interested in her by theirs thing going on with Josh, where she just can't break through as too is going by in getting into two thousand seven getting into two thousand eight she's real a point where she's talking with her family and she's telling them about the issues and they're saying look. You may not be happy about a divorce, but sometimes you have to do what you have to do. We really- for you. So you need to leave him take a moment to get a word from our new sponsor price line. Do you have a group chat? Were you continuously talk about summer giveaways, but never
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Joe cars and other toys that are all the all belong to him. She goes down into the basement and they have thousands of pounds of we which, unlike what what are you doing here, you planning for the apocalypse or something like what is this week for and come to Now you don't really see her videotape any of own belongings until the very end of the tape, she shows her jewellery and her little jewellery stand is broken. she says oh yeah, well, Josh broke this jewellery stand when he was mad at me one day, but nothing of value in the house belongs to her yet she's, the one that's working not josh! So much but he's giving her the allowance he's controlling the money and he's dictating what's bought and, of course, if it's a
more control car, some idiotic hobby that he comes up with that weak. Oh it's gettin by But if it's any thing for susan the common about her make up now: she's not allowed to by Mary K or anything that's expensive. you can see the level of control that he is now pressed upon. Her yeah, he controlled the banking he also controlled, which groceries she could buy. So he would give her a list it would. just be the item listed we also have a price next to it, and if the price varied, more than just like. Basically behalf sense or something like that. She wasn't allowed to buy it and if she d- she would be in big trouble when she got back in he's gotta. manage the money and the money that she's bringing home, but the other thing he did was
put limits on how often the kids could eat and what they could eat, which wow that's a whole other level. You're supposed to just give you kids food, like that's the whole thing right, oh eat, kids like please eat more but no he's, limiting their their food and taken. One of them actually gets a diagram So now nutrition right. Well, that's because they are only being once a day, Josh I, susan at one point after charley was diagnosed with malnutrition, He gets one meal a day, a day care. That's all he needs you're, not wasting my food on him because he's just going to poop it out now. We should add in that Josh and hurting for food. No dictators, usually on and susan was allowed to buy meat there, just not good and I know you can live a weakened You'll have to have me, but that's not the kind of house this was you know. I know some big people
the very healthy life, but this was not, health, this was about the money and really when it came down to it. It was about control, yeah, absolutely and susan was getting more and more afraid of Josh. She understood her place and she didn't like it, but She knew that she couldn't just take the kids and she knew that she didn't want to just file divorce because she was afraid, of his reaction in his response to that, but then were beginning to change. She was too king, about kind of an ultimatum that she was thinking about, giving two josh, because she couldn't live that way, and though she started off trying to help the sky. think she realized, eventually that this was in. a situation that she had any control over. Remember going to the grocery or just feeding her kids, whatever was Josh set. Every rule
set every boundary. He would not Her have freedom. She didn't have freedom, There are a lot of rules implemented at the powerhouse. So eventually she started talk to him about. You know something needs to change. We can't live this way. Not only did he have control over the grocery lesson, whether she got it. this or not or how but she was allowed to feed the kids when charley was first about to be born joy, wouldn't take her to the hospital. He said. Have to have your parents. Take you I'm doing something yeah. He was working on his scam peter, actually yeah. It was really important. Whatever was honest, compeers really really important and her giving birth was not important, apparently she also wasn't allowed to use the family car without permission, but she of having to call her parents and they take her to the hospital and jobs
shows up hours later, whatever his little computer task. Social me The thing was completed so he wasn't even their basically for the birth of his son so we ve well established here that Josh comes from a rocky home, Susan's home life wasn't like that at all, but they get married. They have a couple of children. There to really rough start. Susan is starting to talk to josh about this. She He is starting to tell him things have to change what happens next justin. Well, it's sunday night December. Sixth, around eight thirty p m neighbours see Josh return home. An park in the garage later on that night other neighbours here, a car arm going off from inside the garage and
goes off for several minutes and then its turned off the Josh claims that he takes his two sons out for a camping trip which hey you know. Father wants to take his kids out for a camping trip. That's that's fine and dandy, but it's somewhere, it's freezing outside and its twelve thirty nine, it before they get on the road and drive to a campsite and its covered in snow and ice, really weird camping trip, but according to Josh he doesn't really think about what he's doing he just if that sounds like good idea than hey they're gonna go. Do it and his sons like to eat small boys in the morning, but questioning the whole small part. Now because I well, they were allowed to have so yeah anyways, so they leave and they go on this camping trip, because Josh and susan weren't planning a camping,
will. They didn't call into work the next day so that intel there places of employment, we're not gonna, be there. They didn't tell day care that the kids weren't gonna, be there, so Josh is taking the kids on uns camping trip and see and is staying home and sleeping math according to Josh yeah zol. Accordingly, joshua yeah nine, a m- and this is on that monday, their day care provider. He called well is wondering what's going on, because this is not normal and she can't reach m she calls Susan's employer than she calls Josh's. She calls Josh I was mother and sister, the west are city, police are finally called they do a welfare check there. Nervous. They they don't know where anybody that no one's answering their phones. People should be a work at this point. Kids
be a day care, so they break a window to get into the home. They find two fans our box fans boiling on a particular spot on the carpet and the home that is by chair that Susan usually sits in I'm sure, somebody spilled a drink and they cleaned it up in the box. Bans are drawing the key. That's right, Stereo was also left on the volume up quite a bit as looking around the home their finding things that they believe that susan would have brought with her. If she had left the house, they find her purse four idea: her, while at everything oliver stuff now now that the powers only have one vehicle and it's a two thousand five light blue town and country minivan. So they put out. You know in a p for this minivan all points boys hand, which is letting precincts and other departments, no hay keep an eye out. For this view, Well, because we really need to find out where these people are
and second make sure they're, okay, now late that day, Josh's sister jennifer, who she is very concerned. She's been trying to do her best to track them down. She find someone who saw the the couple on sunday This woman's name is Joanna She sang in the choir with susan at church Joanna Paul's josh and close the three p m and get an answer. And then she had her son called Josh. Now her son, sometimes baby sat charlie and braden. He caught Walls and they think Josh picked up bed her son Alice got nervous and hung the phone up giovanni, the phone and just call him right back and Josh answered, and she said: where are you what's going on You know the police are looking for. You now and John said. I'm just striving. Look that's
actually a good answer from him because he would sometimes just get in his car and just take off and just drive aimlessly. So it's not. that crazy, except for the fact that he's not at work his way? It's not at work and the kids aren't day care, so some things going on he's asked: where is he and he said well she's at work, joanne as like no she's, not any Oh, I thought this was Sunday and she's You know it's monday and his excuses he's not going to church regularly for him. It's like, oh, I forgot which daylights, but does she work on sundays, adjusted still doesn't really add up in my mind before six. clock that night jennifer Josh sister speaks with Josh on the phone she had tried. calling him for the last twenty thirty minutes to no avail and then finally it's on the line and Josh says I'm at work and jennifer, says will, where the kids then
whereas susan meanwhile chuck Cox is sitting next to jennifer. This is susan's dad and he's trying to listen in june, just as in cooperating here he's as the boys are safe and he doesn't know where susan s and they says something really odd. He asks Jennifer how She knows what, a very strange strange comments. ass races. How much do you know so wrong that time Josh oh and his sons return home, a detective talks with Joshua, he's parked his minivan? looking in past Josh into the front area. The vehicle and he sees that there too cellphones up there. He sees one that's plugged in charging and another one nearby it and he's thinking. That's weird: why are there two cell phones here, Josh palace, into the west valley city police station for questioning, along with his kids, and he tells the detective.
that he went camping and they made small is but that he forgot the chocolate are so they just had roasted marshmallows on ground crackers. They asked Josh where's your wife, whereas Susan, and when did you last see her but he's not cooperate, he doesn't really have anything to say and so ask him: do you mind if we search your vehicle any? He agrees to that when they look in his vehicle. They find a generator. They find snacks. They find a humidifier a circular saw, but they don't find anything having to do with camping they ask him about the generator. He says that susan told him they we should bring the generator because it's going to be cold out there when he goes camping I don't really know how this generators going to warm him up unless he has a space here, but whatever they get, the cell phones One of them is Josh's cell phone and the other is Susan's. They ask him
Why do you have susan cell phone and he said that he was at the house, he had picked it up to look something up because it was near by and then he must have mistakenly just put it in his pocket is not thinking about just put in his pocket he's taking this random camping trip in the middle of december when it's freezing outside with his children. He comes back home, the key sir waiting for him- and he just happens have taken his wife's phone also really paint the pitcher here. The other odd thing is both of the cell phones we're missing? There seem cards ma, I'm gonna Sometimes they just fall out right yeah how's, the explain this lay that evening after nine josh turned home with his kids, some people on a street notice that Josh was moving back and forth from van all night, his minivan he was
being at the next morning as well, and they said it appeared as though he was carrying things back and forth and that he was cleaning Why is he clean than any man who knows? Maybe some of the marshmallows spelled out her manner. I Don'T- the next morning, eleven am chuck. Cox gets a call from Josh powell chuck knows his daughters, been missing, december. Sixth, and at least by all accounts it simply. That's when she went missing. He very much wants to hear with Josh ass to say now hush tells chuck, says: hey susan is missing and he's going to be Interviewed by police again and chuck said Josh sounded upset on this call. Chocolate isn't buying it. This is the you know what did he do to my daughter kind of situation by here not going to say anything. There were alarm Josh, because well,
as its keep your enemies closer. He still has the two children. on december aid that evening some time later in the evening from when you talk to chuck cox Josh interviewed by the police. He left the police station garden, occur and went to salt lake city international airport, and why is there he rents a car? Then he just gives away that same time. His dad called into work and said: hey, I'm gonna be out the next couple of days. I'm sick, so he's got many them buddies, renting a car. Ok, I got it and why has this rental car he's going to play? over eight hundred miles on it. One of the things does he drives over to a city which is ninety miles, north of west valley, city, a purchases and act bates, a new cell phone. That's worth having ninety miles to get a cell phone, got it
So if you are suspicious of Josh Powell you're probably thinking he too, soft, putting all these miles on the car and his dad is missing at the same time, Maybe they went somewhere together. Who was watching the kids who's taking care of the house? why is he taking this trip right after his wife has disappeared? It just seems very out of the ordinary, specially forgotten so concerned about money. Well, family has the kids so they're. Ok at this point, but what is josh dealing? One of the things that comes up is: maybe he didn't go to simpson springs may that's a lie, and so, as part of traveling that he's doing here maybe he actually went back to where susan is or release her body if she's deceased his family, his father's help, yes, someone asked
josh his sister alina, what's goin on, your dad. Why did he take that time off She said it was actually bereavement, because he was so upset that susan was missing. So he wasn't even sick. Now he just upset that seasons missing. I didn't know you could take bereavement for that, but ok, while he can lie and say that he sick december nine the police serve a search warrant power residence, they start removing all kinds of things: boxes bags a computer. They find drops of blood near the front door. They also find a key that It's a safe deposit box at a bank near the office that Susan worked at this, something that I found really chilling. Is they take this? He they open up this safe deposit box and inside is this note there was kind of folded over and I think even stapled there, and when they pull this thing apart its dated june twenty eight.
Two thousand and eight. So this is the prior year, and and wrote. If I die, it may not be accident, even if it looks like one take air of my boys for mine and my children's safety. I feel need to have a paper trail at work which would not be accessible to. My husband is an open fact We have life insurance policies of over a million if we die in the next four years, so we got life. Insurance policies we gotta husband that doesn't even really seem phased by his wife. Missing. That went on a camping to broker, and so and was talking like I said, to Josh and telling them things need to change, and she would give him some deadlines She would say you have to change things Two thousand eight, then we change it to two thousand and nine. but she was letting go now. I will leave you as part of this investigation that develops they would like
from diaries that she capped or emails that she sent to some friends that she felt that Josh had the power because he could do something to their kids. Well, that note that they found was what you felt was chilling is what is children said. That said, the chill at my back, and asked the kids like hey, tell us about the camping trip charlie said that he and his brow. her dad and mom went, camping tab have I also said that his mom was at work. and then a little later he said that his mom didn't come home with them from the camping yeah, so they asked him. Where did she go? He started to this right where she went by I couldn't really make sense of it. I think I think you something like their crystals. There
so. There are mine, shafts and the area around some camping sites, but he said he took, the kids down to the pony express trail. So that's where the campsite is so it's pretty clear that Steve pal off with his kids round twelve thirty in the morning and then He returned susan was gone so wish information, because Josh tells them that he went to this simpson springs area. This opponents his trail area long forest goes there and they conduct a search a lot of fresh snow fall and they just can't they can't figure out where his campsite was I don't know how many times they asked Josh, but they ask him. A great number of times. Can you just go with us, and show us where your campsite was or can draws a mac can do something to let us know where you were so we can just
check it out. Nope and John doesn't really have anything to say about that. You know This is like a common thing: bed police officers often have that got instinct when there's making the someone away. their time, the truth or whether the lying right, yeah well, just just isn't talking in this. this guy who you normally can't shut up here and now he's just not saying anything. There is Multiple interviews you can see with them were like news porters will be way for him when he pulls up to his house and they ask questions and he's just idle, ass for words you like the try and and he just doesn't go anywhere with it again, there's a guy that would talk people into a corner and I realize hey a husband, a father just loses his wife, it my freaking out, but he doesn't look freaked out in
again, I don't want to put any emphasis on how somebody responds or acts after something like this happens, but he is completely and utterly, in my mind, naughty, trying to act like he's sound at all whether it be in act or real. He just doesn't seem he seems more annoyed when people are asking questions. The plea- continue their search. They can't locate where're. Supposedly they did the camp them, but then again you know if you think about what got from the many van he didn't have any camping gear. There was nothing about the many and that suggested that they had gone and and went on a camping trip. So this is, on a good situation. This is a woman missing every day that goes by there are things, look more bleak Meanwhile, her friends are starting to organise events, to raise awareness and to get the word out and down what his job
Stu, Josh manner, is to help pass out some flyers and other than that yeah he's comply and he doesn't have a computer, so He borrows laptop from somebody goes over their house and uses it. He says he's going to launch a website to help get people involved in the search for his wife, raise awareness, yeah, yeah but wow, this website launches. It's not any thing to do. with susan being missing, really is it no, he goes on attack negroes after the Cox family and even go so far as to make allegations against his wife, which What are the opposite of what you want to do in your wife, missing ray, yeah. He also ran again the elder s church so is Lee and his from what the law enforcement officers are saying
josh seems very unconcerned about, whereas I is, doesn't seem to care meanwhile, her her family, despite all the pressure and all the anger coming from Josh they're, trying to maintain that the pressure josh alone, and we just need a finer daughter and its again because they're afraid that they might drive him away. Early on here, chuck cox, hug Josh? and when he was doing that I mean you know what he was wanting to do right there. Goes without saying, but he holds back because he doesn't want Josh too. Lee, and that's one of the worries that Josh will just take off. So they need keep em around people are doing their best to keep him comfortable, but there's something going. With Josh I mean he's getting more and more. Sullen and angry withdrawn yeah and he's not cooperating
on December fifteen or on December, fourteenth Josh hires events attorney he's skipping more interviews with the west valley city police on the next, a summer fifteenth. He does provide in a sample to the authorities and what are they label him? There label him. A person of interest A person of interest is a term used by law enforcement that identifies some. Involved in a criminal investigation, but has not been arrested or formerly accused of a trunk of a crime. It has no legal meaning. It doesn't mean anything just somebody of interest the case. Hey. You know, there's multiple people involved in a crime, I no, you might not have been the trigger man. You could still be considered a person of interest, but
he is not a suspect. He is not a prime suspect, You can find a lot of videos out there about this case because it happened so recently, but the divide between the pow family and their Cox family begins spill out in the public and, of course The Cox family is looking for their daughter, their sister, their family member, and they ve set up. over town with flyers and signs. While they happened to set up in front of the aggression store. I guess that Josh would frequent, but really he doesn't frequent it because He would only send susan to buy stuff and she wasn't allowed by anything, but whatever josh's far steve. He will show up and start be rating susan's father on camera,
The newspaper and say why you setting up here, you're you're, slandering us your saying that were the ones that are doing this to you and you, you sure, picked a great place. You set up you're, missing person sign in. I'm sure in their minds that Josh is the prime suspect but they're trying to raise awareness for susan's disappearance. This has nothing to do with the cox family, but they're going out and along with that website, giving counter narrative, it's really disgusting, to see some of the things that they do We talked earlier about how susan was the breadwinner. Josh can't afford to keep the home and that's susan's friends were saying: hey. Why don't you just let us handle the kids and you know, try to and work because you need to pay for paper rent.
Sickly, and he he said I can't afford to pay you for day. Care saw not want to do it, but their offering either offering in there trying to say, hey that we can work it out whatever, but he doesn't care. He saying no, I my my family, is going to help me with this. Now you and there's no way, I'm gonna give my kids up to you. So a natural thing, yet their these interviews that he does. He just talks to the media and he too ask them how that hit his kids or his world, everything he as for his children, but the key they're saying some really odd things to people The boy said to a friend of susan's. I hate my dad but again if the situation were these people don't want to air josh away they're trying to stay closer, they can maybe get some information may be. They can get him to lighten up.
Maybe he'll start to feel bad, but yeah course he's not going to sorry, but they don't follow up with that. They don't ask kids tell us more. What do you mean by that? Josh and his father start making. Allegations that susan has run off with another missing individual in utah name, stephen culture who disappeared in nevada, I mean this is weird, but in december of oh nine. They claim that they ran to Brazil together, so its justice ran Oh, she ran off with this other guy and they just kind of picked. some random dude whose gone missing at the same time and said o. That's who she ran off with, but there is no connection between stephen and Susan whatsoever. Now this even culture guy his stories very interesting to hear
disappearances very mysterious. We a lot of information about it. Maybe it'll be an episode we do in the future, but If you want to know more about it, check out the insight podcast their episode bert seventeen and they have a special guy mercer from the vanished on they also start pulling seasons, diary entries and saying: oh, she was very promiscuous. She, you already heard her that Josh's father said that she was flirting with them so she's now being pretty much blamed for her own disappearance, because they're saying that she is right off with other men, so not exactly the spots that one would assume we would get from afar? other from a husband and along the way here, the cox fan Finally, just a screw. It now try to play nice with Josh has not done any good,
They start speaking out about him. Josh filed a restraining order against chuck cox, where he couldn't approach Josh or his grandsons. You know so chuck can't see his grandsons anymore and that's you know this is a line being drawn in the sand and jobs. Basically saying leave me alone and any effort, fourth is Annie: they just creating more division august fifty thousand eleven west valley, did police conducted to day search of abandoned mine, shafts and eli nevada, I dont- really release much information on it, but this is apparently can active two's seizing power will remember the what the child said. There were diamonds, their most thing you saying about crystals, I think there is that concern that she was disposed of in a mine shaft, but they can't find anything. Meanwhile, stephen
owl is continuing to talk about how he was in love with Susan Cox, Powell and he was somehow flirtatious. She was and he wrote her a song He had a name that he recorded under Steve chantrey and he wrote about fifty songs about susan, and he has journal entries to that are all about susan, but yeah it Susan who's, the one that's flirting with him right and well on august, twenty fifth of two thousand eleven search and sir served against. his home: and well they pull out boxes, photographs of videos, computers, They even find some susan's childhood diaries. Now. One of the creepy things is that Steve Powell had about seventeen notebooks filled with his desires for susan power
and even in their there's one. And we re he's he's recall the conversation rights it down between him of an alina, his own daughter, where it tells them dead, she's, a player She leading you on. That's her game, You know- and so you know in stevens mind Steve mind sues. is this this woman? whose flirting with him and it's all her fault, she's leading a man, so they all Fine, though hundreds of pictures, and they find videos a pair Lee Steve has been photographing and filming, not just susan, but other people with others. College some of them children. He also- and this is pretty disgusting, but Steve powell in his journals, says that he masturbates twice a day two pictures of sea, in power. But because of these,
pictures of children- he has very inappropriate pictures of children- This allows the Cox family, for ammo to try to get custody of these two boys that they feel are in harm's way. They feel that Josh's, unstable and Josh's moved the kids in with his father, And what are some of the things that the children say about living with grandpa Well, they say that they sleep naked with their naked grandpa soldiers. To me, a clear and present danger here, but until this point, Josh has only been a person of interest and getting custody. get away from apparent, is damn near impossible as long as these children are being taken care of as long as there's food and shelter. It's it's just really hard.
You get any sort of custody of children taken away. I guess this is the the problem I have. family member that was removed from the home and I other family members were reporting that the parent was out of work. The till these were being shot off all the time the child was unable to the school to the poor, where the mom was taking the child out of school. So she could drive her to a casino says she could drink at the casino things like that. None of these things got the child take out of the home until one mention of drugs and the house, one mention of marijuana and then those were taken out within two hours, so in this case ass. You would assume, with Josh and his father, that these kids, What have they would have had some sort of probable cause it, what it had some sort of reason, but up until that point, Josh's, not
and charged with anything. This is two years, two freaking years after the disappearance of his wife. He has not been charged. He is only a person of interest they have nothing to pull these kids out of the house and tell they find all this stuff on his dad, yea and steep pall in pew all up washington was arrested september. Twenty second, with fourteen as of wearisome and possession of child pornography and this is all based on what they seized in his house the month prior, the judge or Josh and susan's kids to be removed from the home and their place in protective custody. Now steve says: I'm not guilty, but he's being kept in jail, Josh is now fighting to get custody of his children back. Chuck and judy they. They want these kids under their care.
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On september twenty eightth they get custody of joy. early and braden, but Josh still has visitation rights yeah, but he has to undergo psychological evaluation and attend parenting classes, which is, I guess there way of saying: hey, go yourself check out, through the motions here. At this, the serious it's better than nothing sure, but here You have supervised visits with his children after all this varying psychological stuff. They go to the day care center for the supervise visit, but of Earth Josh's name and faces all over the newspapers all over the tvs as being pretty much the prime suspect so when he shows up to these supervise visits, there's other children their visiting with their parents
Now, there's a mob of journalists and the news people waiting for josh to come visit, his kids, this become such a distraction to the daycare centre that they decide to do supervise visits at Josh, his home and not added, your centre, because it is just too much attention there and the other parents are complaining about this distraction and given supervised visits at the home are not uncommon, but thinking about The background in this case, thinking about who Josh is This is a really bad decision to make because, josh has already said these children are mine, no one else is going to have control over them. These are under suspicion of his missing wife, and then we find out that his father is a pedophile like come on just come on in two thousand and twelve-
orders. Josh powered undergo go. Sexual evaluation This is all having to do with trying to really settled this custody by custody status of these two kids, who are for and seven years old. Let's talk about the case worker, the dear child protective services worker who takes the boys to visit their father Sunday february. Fifth, two thousand twelve, so there caseworker is Elizabeth griffin hall. and she has been tasked with taking the cat. It's too Josh is new home in their new home in pew all up and the the boys actually seem somewhat excited to see their father, which is a good sign for her and they pull up to the home and she opens the door
car, charlie and braden run up to the house an josh's waiting for them with the front door open and she's trying to catch up with the kids. But you know, kids are pretty quick and kids go through the front door and Josh looks right, outer, Annie slammed the door and her face now, She knows the history of Josh. She knows that this is a normal she starts pounding on the door telling Josh too open the door. She this is supervised visit. But josh's, not unlocking the door. He is not doing anything for her she hears Josh telling Charlie hey. I have a big surprise for you and when that door was slammed in her face, there was a a waft of gasoline smell, so
she is now very startled. She hears braden crying. And she's hearing the boys in some sort of distress, and this is where she decides to call nine when one which is pretty quick- and I applaud her for this so she calls a on one in the operator. The operator picks up and she's very clear and concise at the bare beginning at the car she says I am a case worker I am here, do being a supervised visit and the house, belongs to Josh power. Now the dust sure is actually saying hey. What's the address and she doesn't know the address off the top of her head, and so she has to go back to the car to get it and she's, trying to explain the situation for the first two minutes, while she's looking for the address, none on one dispatchers. A little dismissive like You don't know the address of where europe. So. Finally, she gets the address
and then the nine when one dispatcher is asking her. So why are you there again? She's already explained all this. He didn't listen to a single word. She said he asked for her name about four times during this call, because he never wrote down the first time. Apparently she says on the caseworker I'm doing supervised visit for these children and the dispatcher is saying you can't supervisor own visit. I keys not understanding that she's the case worker and she brought the children to the parent to supervise the visit he's totally getting all this wrong and he's pretty much arguing with her, which what does it matter? She's calling for help saying hey. I need the police to get down here. Some children's lives are in danger. She tells him I smelled gasoline and the children are crying
the guy slammed the door my face at about six minutes and thirty seconds under the call. Ok, six minutes and thirty seconds. He says all this at the first available officer, but right now they're responding to real emergencies or their responding to life, threatening situations, and she says this is a life threatening situation. This is life and death, you need to do something. She even goes on to say: I'm pulling my car out of the driveway, because I'm a little affair for my life, because I smelled gasoline this key the nine when one operator off at all. He is zero regard for anything. She said. Then you have a second nine on one call in what happened in between these two nine one. One cause is the house, exploded into flames. Okay, understand that
while she was dorking around with this first nine one one operator, and he did nothing for her. The house blew up right after that call. so the second call to nine when one it's a little better but not much, but there least listening to her in standing, what she sang she gets transferred. As there are like. Are you calling about the fire on blah blah blah she's like a he? I'm calling? the fire, but I'm not calling about that. I'm calling about how there's a father- to children in the house and so She has to re, explain the entire scenario they finally get onto dispatching a police officer, and it takes that cop thirteen minutes to arrive. So
This is literally almost twenty minutes later before they get a cop there, one parent has taken their kids into a home, and this case workers attempted to report it. It's just insane and if you want to go out and listen to that nine one, one call it's out on youtube take away as that and we ve had people all already writing to us. In saying I mean what Think about this case worker. What do you think about the name when operator? But I mean The nine one one operator is the one with the problem. Here they are the one that didn't do their job. I mean the case. Worker is doing her job She didn't have a say in whether this was home visit or daycare visit she's. Just doing what she's told and she's been told, this is a home visit, so she done a million of these. This is her job.
And she's trying to do at the best. She can sure she should have been right there with the kids when they ran up to the door, but nobody's expecting something like this to happen And not to the nine when one operators credit, but no one expects what happened to have happened, but still when someone calls the police for help, The dispatcher needs to understand that it's not, they get a million calls that are all bogus. I know people because mcdonald's is out of chicken sandwiches, but two children seem to be distressed. screaming crying, and she said gasoline and this is the prime suspect and his wife's disappearance. Oh, I have one more thing. The say about the non one system most of the nine when one dispatchers have a
list of addresses that are known its known issues and at no point was Josh address ever added to that in a kind of a a watch list. If you get it, how bout this address or from this address you need to dispatch a cop immediately but we usually said those for drug houses anyways. You think just her describing having smelled gasoline her being prevented from seeing the kids she supposed to be there for a supervised visit that pretty serious, but apparently, with this moment one operator yeah, it didn't matter now they did not have prior knowledge to this, but that that same day, Josh sent an email out saying. I'm sorry good, bye. the other emails were sent out about twenty minutes before its. according to what I read it was. I am not able to live without my sons and I'm not
well to go on anymore. I'm sorry to everyone. I've heard good bye and I mean That in admission, do you think justin. Won't say that it's an emission, about susan's disappearance, but it's definitely an admission about his intentions of what he was about to do. I think that sir, I think that's accurate. I think if you reach you might sense that maybe he d I have some regret for hurting his wife. But then again it's not really is not expressly detailed, they so I mean many talks When he's hurt, maybe he's only meaning. He heard family, because they go into this house and they do investigate this explosion when says that he sorry for him he's hurt. I mean We know what he did inside that house. He went after his own kids with a hatchet yeah. They find did you autopsies on all of them and
the two boys had been struck in the neck and head with a hatchet before the fire broke out. in an instant, I think, to myself if he was is trying to take his kids with them. He could have just ignited the house as you who's going to do anyway. He could have just ignited the house with himself and there are not taken the kids down with him. You know right, but I'm saying like going after your kids with a head: that's yeah how is this a more humane? I dont know what he's thinking in his head, but how murders his children before he blows the house up as I went through this case- and I'm really putting a lot of weight on susan's words, and there are many of them because she had kept information where she worked and she had these diaries is she had sent emails off to people that she trusted. She really deep hills. How her
has been went from being this really loving guy. You know with issues to a guy who was very, very cold and mean carried on other relationships. Really just kind of kept her at arm's length but controlled everything she did I wondered, he has mental health issues welders a whole interview with the psychiatrist that gave him the evaluation, that's out there it's about an hour long, and this guy just talks about how everything out of Josh's mouth was about control bout him having control. And so what are we dealing with here justin, I would say narcissus had a screwed up life had us good father decided to take out all of his aggressions on his family. You it's interesting that He was back when he and his wife, moody way from his dad that it seems
I can may have been able to get away from him for a bit, but he always back to his dad and you wonder even knowing that his dad was obsessed with his wife. That bother him enough to cut off ties with them you know, there was another guy who Josh really felt was interested in Susan. That was a problem. I am, but when it came to his own dad Give him forget right a lot of forgetting yeah I I would say that he was in cahoots his father when father was sentenced for d. Voyeurism and child pornography. He was given the option to get a lesser sentence if he don't know, helped the court's out with other cases, and he refused so his father took the full brunt. Other sense, aspect there of the family ties between Josh and his father
speculation with what happened with Josh and his father, and even rather michael during that time in December, with the rental car at the airport, with the rent car with you know his father calling into work, and then came out later that Michael had disappeared for about a week during that time. Between, like the fourth in the twelve, He was gone and you know people had said that out of all the powers that Michael was the most reasonable one. They seem like he was the most normal big alina was the one that was always gist. following every around in trying to please them agreeing with everything- and I was- I don't agree with this whole picture, because Jennifer was the one that seems to me to be the most normal to me sure,
Michael was the one that seem to be mr successful and all this in that, but where where's michael now, what have we can we talk to Michael about what happened when he did for that week since Michael power, had disappeared for awhile. During that same stretch of time, the authorities were wondering if he was involved, maybe with his dad and his brother, the disappearance of susan powell. Here car. It was a ford torres t ninety seven silver for tourists. He saw the two salvage yard for a hunter box. So when the police finally found out about this selling of this car and because they see back to he might have had something to do with the disappearance of susan Cox Powell. They found the vehicle but have been stripped of certain part and these parts were the right front, pass her door, tail lights, hearing components and some other part, so they bring a cadaver dog,
urged around the vehicle and when it got to the rear portion of the car, the dog sat and what is that indicate justin that it smells death. Cadaver dogs are really honed in on the human smell of death. and it wasn't hitting on any other cars. It was just this one, so the police going interview Michael and ask, about his car and heat. Tell them the truth. The police them, dig his own hole and then inform him hey, we know all about your car. We have it so Go was trying to lie his way out of that one day, soon The car there trying to get dna evidence and They can't get a match for susan's profile, so they ask him. If you knew what happened to Susan, would you tell us Michael answered, absolutely not bow these guys don't give in to any kind of pressure, do they justin and that answer
more of an admission than anything else that we ve talked about in this case so far Jesse? You were talking about the life insurance policies earlier release that came up in our discussion and Josh Powell. named his brother, Michael as the primary beneficiary and the life, and its policy on Susan Powell, and that was a three points. five million dollar life insurance policy- and it was just I think, those nine days after the explode at the house that all the pals were fighting over this life insurance policy, Well he's. Definitely part of this and investigation they're trying to get him to talk It's not working Every eleventh this is it to twenty five p m Michael Powell jumped from the multistory centre village, which is a complex seven story, parking structure. He just jumped off
there's no explanation. He didn't leave a note. He didn't leave any voice males, he just jump. and died on impact. I think we can speculate. I know sometimes the peoples they, but you don't have any of you know this guy was willing to jump what six seven stories too high yeah down to his death, and for what I mean, is about to be rich right in prior to that- the core had denied him one point: five. Million dollars in life insurance payout, and so it's, it's very similar I think, to what Josh dead were Josh wasn't able to get the stay of his kids, that he wanted it things didn't look good for him and he left voicemail to his family. That said, he now goodbye, I feel like I did the same thing. weren't going his way, wasn't gonna get that money and the police were applying all. Pressure on him
and so, even though he was holding strong and sang absolutely not know, got too much for him and he couldn't take it. So we have Josh who took the lives, his children, allegedly, is involved with the disappearance of his wife. We have his father those present for just being a p o s, and then we have his brother, who is now taken his own life plus, boy to avoid this investigation that was coming after him and the disappearance of susan power. This is very, very sad story justin, but it's also crazy. This I was gonna say at the beginning, but I don't wanna give it away, but anyone not seeing the documentary dear Zachary, is, very reminiscent of it in the fact that this families trying to get custody of these children and this system is just not
going along with what is right What should happen because apparently their hands are tied by policy here now. But since this case the Cox family is now tried to law, before I try to influence on law. That's about china. Custody and grandparents getting custody, Hopefully more red flags aim, this case because lawn smith never charge Josh because they never even said he was a suspect. The courts is aren't going to say, take his children away. Even I guess hindsight. Twenty two any, but even when there is clear and present danger, that's to me very obvious, but well I don't know there are a lot of failings here, but on the other hand, I can see where you can't, really blame them. You know to move on the kids and they try
get them somewhere safe after steve power. Was dirty secrets are exposed. I really feel like They should not have allowed him any kind of visitation and that's where their caught we ve covered different missing purse these cases like iron, horsemen and everyone believes they know who took tyrant and made him disappear by the authorities. Can the charge that person they do we have enough and we can speculate. We Look at the timelines and say come on this fits, but the police really have to get right and when I was recently talking to her a homicide, dave, and he told me he said you can't just move on someone because they make the by suspect. You have to be able to die your eyes across your tease because they need to get this court system too they a lot of these detectives. Don't want to just send a case to court because they can. They want to make sure they're sending a case that they know they are the right side of you now, because otherwise this investigation is not over. It was too
years after susan's disappearance, and it didn't appear that they had any more. Information or evidence at that point. So I'm thinking there's no movement. They're not going to do anything and when some my family. One phone call about marijuana, gets a child ripped. Out of the home within hours. I'm just thinking really the guys. A person of interest in the disappearance of his wife. that's, not enough. To get anyone to move at least for the custody of children, that's the part that reminds me of deer zachary is she was the prime us back in their husbands, murder and psych. Are you kidding me to me it's a clear and present danger, but other priorities in this country of We considered dangerous well, but he has his rights thing that disturbs me, though, is that just end even try to keep up really for any from more than fifteen minutes.
Any sensitive was concerned about Susan's whereabouts. That's what I just don't get. I get that you need more evidence to move on someone, they have their rights, but I mean I never even see concerned, I mean the police would ask him please distant. Up in the car with us point the way just want to know where you went camping and he Do it, he would just get quiet. I just I don't understand that light dear accurate. You have some grandparents who are doing the best they can all along the way they try playing chess. They tried making the right moves, they really I need it to get these kids under their care because kids were acting out more and more They knew they were having issues because of their time spent with Josh and seized power. There is point where one the kids was holding the other kids had underwater. And it's a frightening thing to witness for family members to see that they could tell that these kids were disturbed.
And then charley was starting to speak. More and more ass time went on about his mom going missing and where the details the eventually gave was that his mom. Was there at the camping trip, but she daddy got out of the car and went for a walk, and she never came back when daddy came back it's really a case about hopelessness, which is what dear Zachary is all about. You have. supposedly this system. That's about justice. That's about it, acting the innocent by It comes out of this case. we didn't see that we saw little bits and pieces of it. But it was a family member. It was a friend. It was a case where they do her best, but all of these people were met with more powerful forces that prevented them from Getting things done, the name when one operator, for instance, so there's no joy, it is in this case susan power all remains missing and really I read
just want to color Susan Cox. At this point it sucks that she has to remain a missing person with Josh's last name I mean it's disgusting, in others that note that she left by and that safe deposit box where she was asking please take care of my child. She literally said. If I die, it was Josh. I mean she doesn't right that, but she is saying that what you say what You tell me when we talked about this. We talked about this once before we recorded- and you told me something well, I hate to say, because it's a downer but the powers one They won this situation, They are the ones that got away with their master plan. Death and destruction. Two thousand seventeen steve power. Was released after serving time or possession of child pornography and he'll be Our community supervision until june, two thousand nineteen and then he's back out on the public amongst us,
The palace really did win Aids is say that about that. That's how it feels to me. I have all the same the in the world for the Cox family and what they had who endure them, have to hold back anger in play the game hey where your friends and where your family end We don't believe that you are involved in our daughters disappearance because we're trying to save our chill, and our grandchildren every day and then just to be accused of the things that they are accused of and have their daughter. Whose obviously been murdered and disposed of drug through the mud. His power family is just then, so the worst, yet in the end, Josh, when he started going south exerted more more control and, as this case really reached its end. Do to me
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Transcript generated on 2022-08-27.