Kerry Max Cook. Tyler, Texas. June 10, 1977. A young woman named Linda Jo Edwards is brutally murdered in her room. Her roommate, Paula Rudolph, will describe seeing a silver-haired man she saw standing in Linda's doorway. Despite the description, a psychologist will create a profile of the killer that steers the investigation towards a bartender named Kerry Max Cook. This started a 40+ year nightmare for him as he fought a system intent on getting him convicted despite evidence pointing towards the woman's ex-boyfriend. In any case in which both the victim and the wrongly convicted have been failed by the justice system, most would support and encourage them to make a deal that illustrates the failures of the investigation, identifies the actual murderer, and exonerates the convicted. When it comes to this case, though, such results seem unattainable. Join us as we discuss the case and ask Kerry Max Cook what it will take for justice to finally be served in this decades old case.
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new ideas and doing good just and how are you doing wonderful tonight's episode? We speak with carry max cook.
Who has a incredible story about being on death row for a crime that he should have been exonerated for
he has some very colorful language, so listener discretion advised quick. Thank you, too, are
modern on social media
You're doing a wonderful job and we, like the light handed approach
I'll take the social media justin referred to is our facebook group. So if you haven't been there check it out at
the generation why group on facebook and are models are lisa, Amy, samantha and Erika. Thank you
Much we're gonna do a quick summary and then we're gonna jump into the interview, tyler, texas june tenth nineteen, seventy seven, some time between twelve thirty and twelve forty five, a m Paula rudolf, would return to her apartment after a date upon entering, she would see a man in the doorway of her roommates room. His hair appeared to be medium length and silver and he wore white shorts. His skin looked hand. She assume that he was James mayfield, who was Linda Joe Edwards ex boyfriend Linda her roommate must have had him over. She would hear the patio door open and close within minutes. Paula was in bed at around seven a m. She would check on Linda and discover that she had been murdered. The injuries to her body were shocking. Clothing was
off stab wounds to her breast throat back in battle area, she had been physically and sexually mutilated. A broken plaster statue seem to have been used to render her unconscious. As placer was found on and near her body. No signs of struggle or defence were discovered while she was examined paul, rudolf and Linda Joe Edwards had worked for me.
Old, he was dean of library services at what was then texas. Eastern university Linda was his periodicals clerk. They had an eighteen month affair which would be revealed after he broke things off with her, and I may twentieth nineteen. Seventy seven she would attempt to overdose.
and sleeping pills. The university would learn of their relationship and both would be fired. A few days after the murder, a psychologist who lived in the same building named jerry land room, met with the police and created a profile of the murderer. He described an introverted man between the ages of eighteen and thirty, gay or bisexual and possibly high on drugs, who was a sexually inadequate mail with pathological hostility.
And who mutilated the victim as he did in hatred and anguish. A man who lived in the building and was said to be bisexual was carry max cook. He was twenty one years old and a bar tender with an arrest record for auto theft and nineteen. Seventy three and criminal mischief in eighteen. Seventy, six
ex fingerprints found on the outside. The patio door were matched to cook and he would be arrested in august of nineteen. Seventy seven witnesses would implicate him at his first trial. Paul rudolf would now state that lights caused cooks, hair to look silver and shorter than it actually was. A fellow inmate of cooks would testify that cook had
fast to the murder. A sheriff deputy testified that, while escorting carry max cooked the courthouse that cook spoke to him, do you think I killed her.
well, I killed her and I don't give a shit what they do to me. Three trials would take place. He would be tried, convicted and sentenced to death. His first conviction came on june. Twenty eightth nineteen, seventy eight a technicality would overturn these results, a second trial commenced and ninety ninety.
you, but would end with the jury deadlocked in ninety ninety four, he was tried again found guilty and given a death sentence. Two years later, the verdict was overturned. Opinions from the court of appeals that rendered the decision,
included the states. Misconduct in his case does not consist of an isolated incident or the doing of a police officer, but consists of the delay
britain misconduct by members of the bar representing the state over a fourteen year period,
The initial discovery proceedings in nineteen, seventy seven through the first trial, a night
in seventy eight and continuing with the concealment of misconduct until nineteen. Ninety two based on evidence, many believe kerry, max cook's wrongful convictions to be the worst in texas history. Despite these issues, it looked as though prosecutors would take him to a fourth trial in nineteen. Ninety nine, before the trial began, prosecutors offered cary a deal plead guilty and be released with time served and charges would be dropped, Kerry, maintained his innocence and refused to plead guilty. The district attorney would make another offer on the day. Jury selection was to begin plead, no contest and the case would be dismissed. This was an unprecedented offer in a texas death penalty case. Kerry wanted to be proven not guilty in court, but the abuses he suffered in prison made accepting the deal an attractive compromise at the time. Two months later. Dna testing would reveal that semen stains found at the scene.
of the crime, were a perfect match for James mayfield, who had testified that it had been weeks since he had had sex with Linda edwards because of his deal with Psmith county. Carry max cook is left in a place that hans him. While he is a free man, he has not been exonerated. Despite over,
many evidence of his innocence. He remains a second class citizen who cannot be at peace,
There are those who always consider him a violent killer because of his two convictions and his plea deal in his quest for justice. Carry max cook has made a controversy or move. He fired his innocence project legal team. Anyone who has followed wrongful conviction cases knows how important innocence projects have been to freeing people who were found guilty. Despite evidence to the contrary for carry max cook, though, nothing is more important than holding prosecutors accountable for what they did to him and countless others. Just an interviewed carry about his forty year ordeal. I would ask everyone listening to
in mind that this isn't just a case of carry max cook being wrongfully convicted and having his life destroyed of prosecutors, lying in cheating, their way to convictions and not being held accountable? It's also a case of a
woman who was violently murdered and for whom justice was never served, hygiene and thanks for inviting me under your your your podcast,
I really appreciate a good friend of mine who mob tore guys, lady.
No good. Just garcia, told me
now what a stand up guy you in your podcast were so that encourage me to drop
what I'm doing and in our
see. If I can help you out some. So do you?
the go over your case at all like lot, what only looking
give like a brief overview of of year, the situation and and how you
went on where we are now white? What where we are now you re, because there is no such thing as a brief situation, the distressed by tat, you know, just as you have no idea or trials
bore reversals, nor I mean just we
beer for ever you'd be an old man with grand piano from. So let me see where, where would you want to? I did read your book.
and I even went back and started rereading it to refresh myself on some of these points, but the most
crazy injustice that I found during
trial, at least as far as the evidence was, that fingerprint and them time, stamping the finger print.
and I felt like there was no relevance in in scientific fact about it. So you want to talk about lobbying for it tat the thing a bread is extremely important under
united states law. The place just get kicked in the door of europe apartment, although this seem to do that more so now days. What are they just kept? Kick in you
door inner you're a place of business. Were you own without
Just accuse you of a crime. They had the habits called probable cause too
asked you to search and all that
They cannot arrest you or issue of search warrant without one
under american law. So the problem calls in my case was: was the fingerprint sergeant dog collared at the summit,
County police department are found on the outside of the patio door. Then the joy was apartment. He took that took the knowledge
is that he learned through his investigation that I met limit the pool
Twenty years old, she was twenty one, as working at a rocky
whoa club, we met the bull and it was highs like honey,
ten degrees at day had dismembered really
super hot and we're back. The report
MT resorted made out of bed and sports and passion.
marks on my neck and now
there. They they had three or four
as is
told him that took polygraph has passed. Those guys
statements testified before the grand jury and all that, but that's it
that evidence gets sealed off.
It is never heard again, but I need to go back to the figure break or see tens yellow, complicated, soda,
Collared swears out of war for my rest for the prosecutors, mc idea, aids office and says the fingerprint
a standard, twelve hours, o bag it it can only be put
there at the time of the murder, so I'm arrested, based on that, once I'm put in solitary confinement and arrested. Well, that's all
The rest of the case was made up and when I say the rest of it
This was made about this sounds euro. So
hard to believe, but as you
suggesting read my book and tell him it's true and speed.
that I want to start this conversation out. I say
idea, podcast, with bob rob Allah, barbara
does that truth and justice, and I, as a gift for his listeners, I gave em up free copy of my book electronically.
And I like to do the same for your listeners, because I think,
they'll understand why link
scholars call my or deal with smith county, the worst cases
in history. I think if they could read my
working and at the hay port and get that understanding
They might understand the rest of me to you now. How did they get your book? How do we set
sinners upon request I'll, send its warm on my facebook begin.
We are carrying out scope
chasing justice on my facebook. If you asked me for a copy
your copy way be easier. We're talking about several thousand people have.
Oh, just a new hands around was a little too busy, for there is no problem
and you say the whole cases made up against you and you're not kidding. Now this snarls really painful to read the evidence that they hold against you like a fingerprint. Yes, they found a fingerprint on the victims door and it was your fingerprints, but then they dont do say
its fingerprint was found. They say had his fingerprint was found and it could only have been left there at the time of the murder, which there is no scientific way to test the age of a fingerprint. But if I could
If I could, let me say this just because it gets kind of complicated
only because it is that the extent of the dead man
of healthy and misconduct. I mean it's, it's so bad. So if you know my book, my best selling book was never disputed as hard as it says believe
Well John gresham said it best. If it were
make sure. No one would believe it. That's our compelling. The truth is so let me just take you. Do this
part verse, and maybe the listeners would
really understand the rest. Certainly do not want to read the book. One of them is, but so dull coloreds, whereas out there s war, I get arrested africa
but a murder charges to the rape and murder. Ah love Linda Joe Edwards, I've put
solitary confinement sail for the next year.
My mom and dad didn't
any money on their way.
Retired military soldier served
over twenty years in the? U S, army,
boy raise overseas, a cigar, germany. Well, they give
arrested. They haven't, they can mean a grand jury, thou speaking
a group of lawyers. They would automatically know that the prosecutions sensibly controls
and jury. Whatever result they want with someone's. Nobody is because the prosecution wanted it not because it insufficiency the evidence, the prosecution
controls the grand jury they decide beforehand.
who gets indicted. Who does it? Who gets no build so
They can the grand jury and just ass, it was
It was over twenty
almost thirty years. Thirty, five years later, we finally got this evidence
I'm about to tell you about the prosecution.
It's for generations of the smith county disk returnees up is hit. Is all the while trying to stick me execution chamber must like them a verbal die.
caught him malpractice trying to bear their mistake with my execution. So here's what they did. The collar takes too
sworn in, as well as their cheap witness before the grand jury. That indicted me.
and he says he found the finger brand and could only be six twelve hours. Oh- and here is
the grand grandeurs ask him. So they knew this. Is the proof
you have, and I have been all of us have that there
segregation, and we ve got to the statements to review
they knew I knew led. Edwards had been in her apartment as our bread guess, while they asked collared the foreman of the grand jury said
now, MR collared,
sure that fingerprint couldn't have been placed on that path?
your door at a time when
this time. We need more. We know he was in her apartment sugar,
them some piggies as witnesses of dollars. You ve got collared, says on the cold, start record grand jury pages no, sir. It could not so that set these days
it got me indicted, while hiding the fact that I knew Linda they created. They concocted up a profile of the killer that called for the purse
that rape and murder leonards, however, to be a homeless
actual maniacal massaging ass woman, hating dysfunctional impotent
homosexual male between ages of eighteen and twenty five. I automatically upon my arrest in internment enough
county jail, solitary became door. What
why dont number one they painted
add on me. So did David states outward washing up so
I gotta try your later in. This is how it off it. They'll collar testifies
the fingerprint could have only been placed at the time of the murder and therein
instigation, uncovered no evidence carry.
Spoken, Linda Joe Edwards, had ever met or knew each other. You know he lives.
they were private, complex to the path who conducted the autopsy.
ah. He originally plain that shit
was she was killed at this.
in time and there
He could not determine evidence of rate that made a couple. A murderer, lenny test
at my try. Your later he said,
have any notes, and he just
what's from memory, he thought an autopsy conducted
the sink of a funeral. Warm and he said,
add that up
Linda, Jo Edwards died
same time frame that doug collared claim the fingerprint had they been
ten or twelve. Our time frame of the colored said that
and had been lap, and then they I witnessed so averse s,
sworn statement took a polygraph wrapped passed it. She positively identified J
maybe he'll lender Joe Edwards eggs married
five euro boyfriend as the killer, the man she saw the appointment- and I
He came home at twelve thirty, I am had silver hair. She identified him to achieve
build rod face wearing white tennis, shorts J
may feel it had just been out of the tennis court lying there
in our know,
broken out within three three weeks before and here
wasn't haven't any of it, so she-
completely changes our story ends
and changes the time a death she backs up some, so I could be put
there in time to be a purse possible person that could be a dinner
As she says it wasn't. Jays mayfield I saw it was carry max cook
when I ask about whether man to remove crooked here,
onto his shoulder and brown. When she was
Finally, with that use the light cut there and that she certain well and then they took that's about biologists, and then they took the eye, witness
to change her testimony.
tied it all up. This neat little package
of guilt beyond reasonable doubt and I was sentenced to death.
in eighteen, seventy eight and then that
fraud and more suppressed.
and of dad's subordination, perjury prosecutor or police misconduct. All that was was bottled up in file and argued.
appeals to execute me by.
Another generation of smith, county prosecutors as the truth when they knew also it was true. They still had the records they kept see.
Great, so no one could know out enjoy it was, but we finally got those record
and even though we had those records, they still argued.
The way to the united states supreme court. I confessed on and made the rebels.
Just said she ought. She died at the same time. The export claim that kind of thing a bright was that
on the patio door. Carbon put. It
the time of the mirror and could confess to an end,
in a smart guy jail. He shared a sandwich.
I never share to sell it. Anyone I was in solitary just as you know, and this guy
imported minute, you're lying
later, but my point is, is
for generations, including the last once met being on
generations on this myth, county disco, Terry's office and attire police department perpetuated
What has been said by legal scholars. Worse case of it
misconduct in american history. They perpetuated this fraud,
forty years all the way to the
actual innocent judge you, which I lost,
because I had no lie. Just fired the innocents project for
selling out when I thought was a truth in what I deserve to have come out in public
hearing whether lost their one? So about the truth, when about money she describes james mayfield in her initial statement and then
she says she doesn't know if it was him, but the end her first statement. She describes him to a t,
and you look yonder on one side and she took a polygraph tests and passed it as
What no deception? It he was
person she
He saw in the apartment standing in lenders bedroom
He was her height, they had so we cut above the years rod face and you know,
she's out. I was handed back. She told the pilot managerial inadvertent
or maybe it is. She told the pilot manager. She was the
gone to inside the apartment managers office be tailor endorse,
carpenter because
in all the murder, the police were all in the apartment and up she won
you now get her dad help remove or stop thousands. She waited for the funeral.
come. Get the victim, an apartment managers, office,
why we manage it already heard the buzz that was
leading that it was not
A person had been beaten up, but a person had been brutally murdered and, more so
the scandal bought it already spread that
those row make one.
Paul, a rude. The eyewitness here,
paul a router says: it's jays made
that guy there was dating her. You know that day.
Twenty one year old girl, and so the five imagine
More detailed indoors carpenter asked Paul rule out there.
They said the place raw year we heard it was it was that professor maybe
you tell the police you saw professor,
hey field, an apartment,
that last night you better be careful because,
we as the dean of the university and that's it,
What those two women testified to. One of them is dead now they said that all over
I told them angrily angrily. You think I could
gone to bed that night, unless I was
absolutely sure who that wasn't my apartment. She said it was him so she
new and what what the story is here is she
was made a change. Your testimony now you're listeners
say, yeah. Why well
your listeners. Our lot like me, then, because I wanted to know the answer- that
the years to all. We all had our suppositions. We all legal experts
new, this in thought that and of course she had been
tampered with you now and made a convinced it was me and victims.
I will give now that shit.
in tat we, but then we found out the real.
Ro the real reason and it came
june of
last year, two thousand sixteen come to find out a discredited former policemen who was working for the desk returnees
always name Jake massey, a former
scratted tire police officer. He, though, the motive for the
they were looking for a homosexual and
He was interviewing apartment. People who
paula route, all had all the attributes,
of a man. She was a same dress. She soldier on close. She wore
war. Manly like closed. She talk like a man. She are
responded like a man and they thought
had a crush on the young vibrant,
Linda Joe Edwards at twenty one. So
automatically and was hidden for forty years until we got the tape,
lay under the s office. So
Paul a rudolf herself became a suspect. Why? Because she fit the profile of being.
Yea. They were looking for a homosexual if you're gay, you better.
on the entire, because your asses going to jail and that's what happened on the tape he tells doors car
The derby wanna do so
you so she's really manly and
Yes, yes, I think she's she's a man, and we should really
close to learn. Edwards ya think they were offered to close
who klaus she motorway, whether she is
is trying to help her so boring.
Oh question is that the police department,
advanced, paula, Paul, a know. All analysis,
swaddle, I got some fifty seven, but taken there
stir. She didn't change your testimony and say it was me and if she started at me
bill story. She
herself was assessed bag as possible as the killer, because
fingerprints were all lower that apartment and she lived there
as she should have been considered
that's right. She was the first one to discover the body. She was the first one to report, it
just a guess what not just that? Not only was she the first person to discover
the body and report it, but he is what's wrong.
really weird about that from several people
Paul a route all
probably was she died recently is, was gay and a small bad
his clothes mouth community. That's the salem which Charles man, I could get. You burn to the state to be gay
I sexual people just hide that in these taxes, it's not like the rest of them
Earl, especially in nineteen. Seventy seven a need
Brian for those
older and I'm really telling my age now for those in need of people. Member need a bride. Miss amiss florida.
stories and aunt anti gave?
I'm paying that it was a mental illness. We can't let these people but near
children are rape as their pedophiles, their data,
their sick people. She started.
Albania and ball jerry thought, well it and want to cross
united states, just basically lynching people-
for being gay, and that was the
I'm an and I arrested tried and convicted in
call a rude. Ah, I think she was gay because they all talked about
ass. She was totally unaffected justin.
She sat on the porch and people, walk up and say memory
that's your roommate. Do you need a hog back up and
I beg your email out just very
man lay and my jaw and unaffected she's. What do the
office the set out because she got tired of being people walking up to it.
About what she saw so she's really cold person.
so she should have been a suspect. I agree, but I never got the benefit of that evidence until a couple days before me.
The mai June six, two thousand
sixteen actual innocence hearing, because the prostitution headed for forty years, mad bingham,
faxes, age, s and Y see is the next instalment of the award winning anthology series. American horror story, Chris,
by ryan murphy and brad fell. Chuck with to all
episodes airing each week. It promised
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it s an Y, see stars returning favorites like Zachary window and Billy lord, along with them
faces, including Russell Toby and Charlie carver. Something
Evil is coming at boxes.
Yes and Y see premiers october nineteenth on ethics stream on hulu.
the always really wanted that amazon that stuff that is discounted if you're naughty or nice, the there's the the witness that they say you confessed
you ten, so it's her world markets
comes out with more concessions in the back of bad again, so tell me, which
one are we talking about the one that happened on the elevator, the one
Robert Wickham reserve, deputy, so you'd you'd been claiming innocence.
For all this time. You'd even five.
An injunction against investigate
some police, because they were harassing you and your jail cell, and you were saying I've obtained count
so I have a lawyer. You need to talk to my lawyer, but but
still harassing you yet over this?
entire time of you maintain your innocence. You jump
now elevator and tela an officer? Yet I did it a seven
Second elevator ride at that. But here it is, I'm sorry if I go on a long, but
just so many moving parts. Where do you? Where do you find a pair
Weird, I I
see one when I'm talking. Sometimes I about that. What about this so I get arrested, they take pubic.
From me and they take blood and head here,
They are real, let less! Ah, ah, if you think
talk a motto was wroth. You needed experience smith county
least interrogations they
abroad brutal non, stop. They left. They put me naked and free
inside a tartar police department
I never forget it was. Were peach colored
There was nothing in there, but for steel box
it was now matters no cover. Just
ugly red light in the top right hand, corner which was a
balance came and they start.
took every stage of clothing. I had struck me completely naked and had
air conditioner turned up to like you know me, god it was you
like sixty was so freezing it really was, it was freezing. Even had I been fully dress, it was
breezy they put me in a naked and they had me on camera, and this is the record just in any
Every time I try to close my eyes to shear exhaustion. I urine
It myself, so I'm laying in that
laying in eyes are raising and they did not. You use arrest from either now, but he did not not on the plane. So anyway, look so
They must have seen through the surveillance camera. I close my eyes and they re.
stared rods got lieutenant rawlins got races and taken the bomb get up get up get up. You can go to sleep
Not you tell us why now so
five days later I end up into smith county jail in solitary confinement. On the sixth floor called
side sale I the deck dogma,
keeps coming up to mysel Bobby Van as to other was, and they come in.
Cell was dark, they come in, they sit on the bed, tell us about,
Robert high, on your homosexual lover. We know you're a clear way, don't without thought you for that
you know what you're gonna get that need a bright woman up in here and
our brain a lot and embarrassment to your family right down the road. Won't you just
Tell us about your boyfriend and you
I can go on and as it I don't know,
you're talking about Robert Honneur, barely know I'm so
I'll bring a hamburger they bring up. I can and oh Henry candy more than an
on my bed in interrogate me and then-
time scare me about what they were doing at present
want me. If I wouldn't, I wouldn't
album
on then
I'm gonna go down and and they're gonna really
do some serious thought the man prison while that ended up
I must have then,
seers or something of that became true but anyway. Ah, so I couldn't
get. It was those I became so
afraid there were make something up on me and I I wasn't a break in the police
that one I've been in trouble. I ran away from all I've been
reservoir smoking marijuana. True,
and see me. I was a child.
Woke up one day in a small town,
why rhyme or reason to a loss team
get good trying to find who I was when a bad kid just as malta,
It's a grown up in europe, most of my life. Well, let me answer.
least continued
Her asked me and interrogate me interrogate me around the clock and so
Finally, see my mind: the vets attorneys in our one of em and I get the top
I raise out there. I thought, look like you got
You gotta stop, as you guys got a vile something
I'll make em start. They won't stop talking
I've got a lawyer. I knew enough at that point that,
now? What you about your right, the council
the investigations have to start. The police are no longer allowed to talk to you just in
I told him everything I knew
I told him repeatedly. I wasn't
I knew I'd better private. Now I did not murder. No, I don't know anything about them are and they
would not listen to me. So that's when I eyes I pay
I got scared. I told my lawyers you the to file something these people. Wouldn't
stop man. I'm scared to death, they're gonna say I said something
didn't. Please. By comes up so we did
What is something hearing examining draw a dinner the examining trial, which is the
they have enough evidence the bind you or for a grand jury determination at the end of it.
judge cologne, I think was the was a judge or it might have been called one of the two
but my lawyer, the record, shows how the motion
injunction, claiming that the smith guarded
could turn his office and the totter police department
violating my civil rights because I did vote by right. The count.
when they were continuing to interrogate me
Hence my will, as others
I said: well, that's happiness.
certainly wrong our mind. The prosecutors and the police driver that very much
The gas involved is right, the council, so I go back up
where's the next day, another all henry
bought hamburger from water berger and tell me about robert haunt cook. You don't say
All the gods are next time. I see my lawyers screen.
I I'm frantic. I tell him again, please make it stop. Please make it stop, is illegal
bag downstairs thompson,
the judge, cologne or code can play is the same thing:
this joint says: well, that's
go on? There's nothing I can do about it. Talk to the prosecutor, so
I went on until. Finally, I just you know what
reviews the talk and they could scare me threat. Man say those
beat me up her whatever I just wooden box.
a job had enough, though I would refuse at all, and I stopped coming by law.
We're supposed to leave you alone, and there is absolutely no repercussion or accountability for that right and that's what makes this Robert Wickham reserve deputy so called. Can elevator convention story such horrendous. He thought,
oh shit, because here I am fighting my innocence from his dark. Solitary confinement sail with them.
Which is rats, mildly occupants. Besides me, from a whole
the wall and
do everything I can hold on. I won't talk to the trust
Yes, I know those
How they are.
I reply alive and so now I'm forced to go to trial. I am forced to cover placements wars, to come up to myself, put me in handcuffs and take me to court
as this reserve deputy guy,
his name and heat
he makes up the story. Twenty
years later. Fifteen years later it comes out when I get,
case reverse on appeal is when it finally comes out. He says I say to him
it was wrong. Elevator is taken me to jury selection. He says
look up at him and say exactly this: do you think I did it
he has sworn statement says. I don't know it's for a jury to design
Suppose I suppose they said well, I did it.
don't give a shit what they do to me.
And then the elevator opens, and he takes me to the advance table and takes the handcuffs off and puts at the table
how about a guy at
containers innocence from the moment he was arrested with the police so putting the ends,
functions and all that into the record before the judge, what have been important but no attorney
brad did that, so you may
lab and think carried come on. Nobody believed that guy,
shit they sent me back. The death row and ninety bore
Mr Herman and
paula, rudolf, saying no us
changed my mind. I I had time to
Think about it! It's jericho, it I saw its not days, may feel so another.
Edna jury sent me back today.
Throw again and then and
in July, two thousand and sixteen the judge role against me on actual innocence, citing Robert Wickham conversion story.
So you can laugh all you want, you were the only one laughing is them because I'm sick,
your buried in a manassa bull shit because of it I mean every
Every step of the way the prosecutor is getting evidence put in your defence attorney is objecting, but there are being overruled,
and then your defence is trying to bring in character wooden
as for you, there trying to bring in evidence-
on your side and its most of its just
being shot down and thrown out, I'm a correct through the bars have an all out.
swift, counting. This is a country that is like now.
Other county in america, not just of the two hundred fifty four counties and taxes
county is an outlier in then the ever ever sense of the word. But
at all times, including two thousand
sixteen in July it's been burger king for them.
Always out of their way.
Judges are always friendly. The appeals courts are always friendly, so
It's always been like eating it burger king and have their way they now
Seventy eight, though, when you said you child
Witnesses you child, characterwith,
I didn't have anything. I had a five hundred dollar defence and there wasn't a single witness called because of that.
And in the nineties, when I had those series of reach roused, I was still so poor. I couldn't
pay attention, but I at least
organization named centre and ministries. They hired a lawyer, and I had I was gonna- have
expert witnesses and character witnesses, but now the problem was going.
For georgia was like the third prosecutor in the courtroom. His wooden leg
where this test by when let that witness testify, in other words whatever was, it, was
gently incriminating if that,
quickly made up manufactured that was admissible
but any evidence that carry cook didn't say that
it was Anna's at r carrie cook and been back to Linda's apartment as a guest. You hit that you know that. That's in your police reports here show him
that was inadmissible as a rule of law, so
David showed may feel committed. Murder, which would you be here long-
but that evidence it was inadmissible as a rule of law because, as a judge said, Jane mayfields not on trial, jerry max cookies,.
You ve heard of eminent well. This is welcome to them.
I am seashell or the kazi nightmare, because what happened here will would you
your senses, you you think you ve heard it all you you watch law and order. You you got the movies, you read books, you listen to the podcast, you
making a martyr, and you think you really know how it works. Try again
well, it's really really bad and an isn't the best defence showing how somebody else could have done it and not you
I mean I shouldn't you shouldn't have to under the american law the burden of proof rest
solely on the prostitution shoulders and that's for good reason. If, if you
like you, somebody do in southern god.
you oughta, have the proof and the reasons the reason the back it up. So that's the reason.
So strong lead them.
guys, it's it's not.
That is its nowhere near that they in fact the burden of proof,
is that once you're arrested in your sitting at table the prosecution
got you indicted, I'm talking about them.
the grand jury that the prosecution controls
conversation
get anyone,
determines, who gets indicted. Who gets no build that the press
You shouldn't, has a tool at their disposal cod
limiting emotional remedy for those
you out there that that is not familiar with those league
terms. Emotional levity. Basically is something the prostitution and sometimes the fence file.
which is a laundry list of things that the prosecution does it wanted.
To be allowed to tell the jury in and vice versa, that things and events, though, want the
prosecutor prosecuted ever tell of a jury like a possible prior conviction in our
a prior arrest, don't want those things going at the guilty or innocent phase of the trial. So in the process
you should motivate motion eliminate was couldn't tell the jury that dog
our had admitted he had law
about the fingerprint. He said that the district attorney's office
god made him, do it, and so we couldn't and peaches
brand new testimony in the nineties saying
thank you for having put their the time of the murder and there was no evidence. It
london I'd ever met each other known each other. We because you know
that was an emotional lemon, adjudge granted it so
we weren't allowed. The use it even though it was his own statement before
you brought licensing board it.
poetry, we couldn't tell the jury,
admitted lying about the same thing he's now telling you is the truth. He still maintain. The threat was
what the time of the murder, but what about all you're exculpatory evidence that you had going for you well there again that
powerful tool called motioning levity, not much of that
prosecutor was able to keep up
and what am I talking about where we get in the weeds with so many movie
hearts here, but there was a book called us
criminal the gains made.
You ordered seven
the seven pit. It's illegal law enforcement tree as it came out in nineteen forty
it's all black him, what seven pictures, or all black and white.
And it mirrors identically. How
that delivers its found her brow cut into what once
the brown one side, other side, the other by the pictures
mix that a victim to real.
I've seen it in the meanwhile
medical examiner, one
Another murder is as odd, stabbed
lacerated and the
Imagine a region, another pitcher reckless,
another pitcher
I in the head lips or something my point is, is all seven pitchers me
I what was done the linda Joe Edwards, and it was proven james, maybe
I had ordered this book, even though he denied it for forty years for zero. They ever saw that book or knew anything about it, but recently, when he admitted he'd been lying about not being a
apartment? He admitted he did know of that book. You did check
I he did bring that book the library and that book
you you've seen it you
He would see that as the men's rio that that would be the shocking through the sky
committed that murder. The the pictures
go and one it's called is a stage device
the calmer it somewhat
It's a murder and tries to make it look like something else to defer the figure
being pointed at him, so he would have been the obvious suspected to be getting was aggressive. Domineering is forty. Five is
trying to keep his wife and finding out about the affair is twenty one year old secretary.
with edward. He had all the motive
the attorney in the world's murder, and he did, but we could.
Tell the jury, because I was on trial, everyone thinks will deal
evidence exonerates people every day.
and there was dna evidence at this crime scene yet somehow,
you're still the murderer, even though the dna points to somebody else, not just the dna points to someone else,
just as we had several rounds of dna testing here, the prosecution
here again which what makes my story called the worse in american history: the prosecution
even at the murder weapon. They took from the murder scene as sylvan here, the night, the butcher knife they took that we have to get that back them. The policeman etiquette.
Who took as a souvenir they had all those things tested. The other evidence other things you evidence they cling
they found, which they told the public would prove absolutely
we're going to find his dna on foot you're, not you're, gonna see and they had all that tested and none of the dna, not none of not anything, was mine, but here's the thing before
was tested. We were china at least
a chain of custody on the butcher knife, because this corrupt detective name any clark this as corrupt, is dug collar. He's the one
took the knife linda do was, was it
but using went the small town bullet
I school with their population ten and
he swore he bowed. He would bring her carriage justice one way or another, so even after I would agree with the whole world
believe me, I'm innocent. Well, he he takes the knife and he says he's gonna, be
one field testing on it! What that these, who knows
the bottom line. Is we found with the two twelve
appeals entire. To have that the judge,
an injunction, so they couldn't has that night until first week headed establish whereas it ban what product
Has it been out of the pouch? Has it been out of the bag? Have you ever you? Ok,
My remember make no mistake about it. My
blood and
hair was still,
possession of the tyler police department for my team, seventy seven so my bed,
His fear was, I could be set up here in a case of guns, so
internationally, hotly contested. That's the only thing that would shouted up once you're good
If found cooks, dna on the on the murder weapon, but.
But anyway, what happened is though we were trying to get. First proof words bear
then where's, the hair. You never responded, whereas MR cook's hair you took causes it takes
the route that against the knife and bone you gotta hit is called touch dna now. Well, we were in that before the twelve horrible feels on that
junction and Michael west assistance with kindness returning told the three judge panel, as an officer of the court
they're not allowed to do I'm about to tell you they do they didn't. I have it in the record, Michael west, all the talk court of appeals court on call, MR cook worldly here today, because he wants to resist
any dna testing on that night because
He knows it's gonna his day
nay, is gonna, be on it and we're gonna. Finally, have him red handed, while guess what, when he said that to the three judge panel, twelve court of appeals,
they'd, already wit, mine are back the court's back everyone's back. They already had attested it sell mark in dallas and the result
came back. It was mine
so they knew- and I made that argument to the twelve court of appeals they were lying. Is officers of the court
They need a morsel of innocence project. Please please. This is enough and you finally bought bother complaint for prosecutor or risk
that what the ethics bore, because this is so blatantly and clear. Here's the results to date. They got back testing a night. The same night there telling them
that I am only resisting it being cast it because it will prove they met the nail in my car
When a new, as I said that there was
data on at night there was mine, I'm innocent, and we need finally volume
why and neither more, nor the innocent project of new york senior staff attorney said no carry,
because the ethics committee is very pro prosecution and it
get anywhere anywhere I mean anyway. I made some
outlandish pulse when I fired the innocents project now also out of
and over it just in, but that's because
They don't know what was really gone on and in this forty five minutes
phone call on laying the basis to tell you a lot of what I've gone do, but here in that-
snapshot right there I mean. That's like
and someone wake me up- the innocents project of new york with a prosecutor standing before an appeals court lying about the evidence in a case in which that's all they had ever done.
On the day I was arrested all his fifth nineteen. Seventy
and you don't want to do a file, a motion with the judge and tell him they lied, no care because it just be wasting time and money
somebody wake me up in and try to forgive me for being a nut?
what no you're not a nut, but they were probably just being honest like ripped. It there's no point in doing this because it'll go nowhere.
but on that issue I thinking them off. You can at least
try? You can take that step
that doesn't go anywhere. Fine waste
you're too. You can make the wreck. You can at least made the record because here's what happened my just in this was
even Barry Scheck, nina Morrison, weren't fear of this day
my hair when I sold you detective eddie clark took the now
the murder weapon and
oh, my hair, taken originally in june,
The night is every seven from me as sylvan ears in the linda, Joe Edwards murder. Well date, the plate, the prosecution per hour motion did go back to his home.
Men and retrieve the murder weapon, so it can be tested behind everyone's back but
He did not every the prostitution, nor did eddie cart, ever explain
What to do with my hair, so
the dna reveal yielded some touch dna
and it would have been mine once the
Hortatory ruled against me and accepted its testing. Oh my god, just in I would
finally been so frame.
no matter how innocent I was. It wasn't
the matter you put that goddamned dna on that night belonging to me and its game
where man, I'm so
what you just said, something that struck a chord. You said that he had these pieces of evidence at his
and nodded evidence was now each of them from the police. Evidence room.
he had. I'm in his home is sylvan ears. He would show on the people, then why?
now the david, when we found out he took its in a newspaper story. We go online type. My name up, I think, is
there's motley or texas trip
new brandy gresham. As this
the journalists brand aggression. He taught
gives it everyday real, quick he's called. He says they beat him up
session and then
is in the original police packet.
It was sealed in the after the trial. That happen,
and then and then you know we we find something.
This peculiar about that. He gets a second affidavit and which for the prosecutors- and he said
No, I did some field testing on it.
I did break it loose from its original seal, but I did some feel testing and damage.
Since I teach law enforcement classes,
use this knife for that. So you know he what he does
Let me explain this bizarre is all that is in itself is lied these contradicting himself, which has never problem with them, because there's no there's no consequences, but what's in-
you're saying he never explain what happened, what
there with my hair. So we were all very afraid that you knows
county had so much invested in in this misconduct, and so much fall out was gonna. Come from my hearing this they did. This
just squeezes you order the evidence destroy the hair found on the victims, body that wasn't mine. He ordered his torrents, so it can be tested that kind of stuff is going to come out
in the hearing. That was a start. There was gonna role, judge jack, skis off the bench and a view bob runs. Podcast is
yours- you know that his audiences all over that because they know how corrupt that guy
two other cases in tyler, so they know who he is. He is a very corrupt. Bastard has no business.
a judge he ordered. I
found on Linda Joe errors body that was that the roommates was not less,
it was not mine. He or
That is and that's how any court came into possession of the murder weapon as a silver near analogue my hair.
Because he ordered all the evidence in court cases short. That was so. I could never get back in a court, improve hours, innocent and justin.
This makes you unique in this sense,
your hearing, the reasons why
in so upset. The reason of ptsd is
strong but
superman, it has gotten to me at times
with your hearing. Why? If half of what I'm saying is true in every
I'm saying is true: I can back every bit of it out with a document then my god can
can you understand why it, sir
spain's so hard on me. Absolutely you then,
doing not only with the mental stress of people lying fabricating and a system,
acting them up with their lies, but you ve
also dealt with all the physical and just a horrific torture. You went through in prison check just consider this work, for example,
when setting playing dominoes in the day room on death row with someone and
Is a mexican guy walk up behind him? Take away
the way glued on up a toothbrush adjust slice. Louis, I order adjust the drownded in blood and then for by mexicans.
got around me and say turn your badge ass around then on. You turn around the cops, the guards common air and at what happened here,
the razor blades on the floor and everyone space in the wall.
in no way we know is that no evil. You cannot say a word because
you don't know what living in horror and fear is like was again
There is actually run the brazen I've got a video.
And always I had this videos, because the prisoner the prison,
guards thought I was dead there. It was in
possible to be alive because one of the guards running to the scene, it was dark. It was late at about three in the morning slipped and fell in the blood that was all the way down at the front door and a stream when I shined the flashlight myself, they were convinced I was dead, so they called
corner and the warden, which has to be notified any murders or suicides for death row, so I videotaped it. I mean
ever seen so much blood human rights watch called called me. The most brutalize man in the history of the american prisons
system organization that deals with the experts on rape and american prison cod
stop prisoner right. They wrote a book on stop prisoner rape, they test before the Senate legislate. They said that I was the worst case of
go abuse and any horrible story than ever heard. I've, just as nothing
you could ever tell me good compared to what I've got
Do I have walked a minefield. I walked
I ran the gauntlet are the most horrific p.
Well, you could ever imagine we're not talking about human beings that
me we're talking about monsters, we're talking about real monsters, the p
Will that you led the line on at night for because, if there is
that's your god!
and you're doing everything you can to stay alive for as long as you can. As you know, when death comes it's giving you back
them and I'm gonna lead. As long as I can
I thought that you are brutalized because you wouldn't fight back you, wouldn't you know you if you did and you're now a criminal, your now the monster that
We want to call on you now and then in my old lawyers, not not standing up in
hiding bore me. That's the end.
Look you hear the innocent project of new york or the illnesses project
you hear those that you involve those names and, in any event, you and oh, my god, you ve, just you just go-
out to them. Ass I mean they are. The go to organization are hard to get to know you take the cases
No, they can wind, it's so expensive. You get the innocents project.
Moniker on your case, your
halfway there because they have such there such a great organization, so much money.
In all that. So here I am
the evidence it got me back in the court see so when I
ottawa on board. I was the paralegal I was apparent
For my own case and those like one of the others. Like one of the lawyers, they told me that they said I was a small is any lawyer they ever worked with, and so I was like
working as my own lawyer to guide and talked about this
no, I posted
I went a little
The reservation I fired on you know, but I loved the innocents project
yeah. I did one razors barbarians
I start in this broadway play called the exonerated with with Alice actors in
This is why go with theater? I know the people I'm on screen watching movies. In no matter who you say it is I've ever met him
in some way, bumped into a moving part of a major played me or something. So I thought
mrs project, was the holy grail. I believed in them. I I fought for my encourage my friends. The dome
to a long before they were ever. My lord
and so the trust, was
unbelievable em too
We start crying right now because I feel so betrayed and it's not
about what you said earlier on? We weren't on the record about the. Why
check mark that that cold start true,
It's true is true is true, but just in I I I I knew it
prostitution was gonna. U
These are the brutal,
are in prison against me, hurting myself at times they get move so well.
like it or not. Even I have difficulty discussing it with men in all,
I knew I was gonna have to discuss this with them.
the male lawyers in my case, because the prosecutions gonna try to use it against me again. So I
went there. I told them what had happened to me and showed in the dark,
you mean. Taking of it showed him the things carved on my but told them what it was like after
removing my penis, while with what it was like with the rest,
The present I got to be known all over the present system as the punk who blank lank lincoln.
Me and all the warm I'm losing my family one after another, my brother's murder, molly brothers murdered my dad dies
Answer my mother methods.
Mentally ill. She abandoned me, so I'm going to the worse,
Madness that anyway,
had ever imagined less. They walked it and I'm taking this all today this is
project crawling up to their desk and setting it on her desk out of breath and saying help me help me, don't because when you help me when you help me with this story,
you're gonna help so many other people there. Just like me. They just don't have
what I want to be their voice to help me.
Help me get these people me they ignored. Yes, yes, they ignored me. They did it their way
settled for deal behind my back after being ordered as the client not to continue
communicate with men being ominous smith, county dusk, attorney's office man, just in it
crazy. What what I went through
and nobody knows nobody
those everyone just judgment carry thus illnesses
I believe in him. Why do you follow them?
you're putting on down here. I can't be your friend anymore. I just in I couldn't
tell him all. This parliament was still china's day loyal,
his day, loyal when they were fighting.
For your exoneration, they weren't fighting for accountability of the system, exactly you got it and you got it and you felt betrayed because one they didn't do it. You were asking them to do
If they're, if you're their client, they should do what you're telling them it's like therein
business for an exaggeration, entered, get thou, check, mark and say hey
one more one more down in your thoughts.
There's more to go, but
Firstly, this story. Let me pay why, when I say especially the story, I I
built author, an international reputation on them on the death penalty,
I spoke with the barclay sooner. Forty thousand people scissors random, introduce me when it comes
speaking for those who can't speak for themselves, I am a warrior. I mean I'm not scared of nothing or nobody in the matter. You make me the more eloquent I can become it's just who I am fighting for my life from death row. So yeah I became
really well known. I had a great reputation with the media, all
being honest and straightforward in you know,
not engaging in hyperbole. Just you know, being a kind,
poor guy with a hell of a story, so they want.
my eyes on racial on our website. So bad he wasn't it
dry minutes afterwards, and I heard it was on this project
please carry scope and
not there. Now, if you love, because
I fired him. I said that the you're not gonna benefit from my suffer
because you prolonged it- you weren't partners
solution. You're part of the problem here you're far, the very
this them on trying to change or I'm willing to die for the change. So take my stuff.
Down, or also you I'll, find the loi represent myself, but are also you
take my name down. You're not allowed to use me. You're fired
now, I don't want to be on your website and I did entered my.
On their website, but but you still feel that
you a great job for a lot of people, it just your interaction, your relationship with them was not about you.
had all well, I wouldn't go that, while without I would go as far as I can, I should shut up and leave it like you, so you so politely and- and
in the interests of neutrality, sad butter. I will carry you know, I I I
hell I like it is even when I heard so, I would say I can appreciate
the souls who lot whose wise they've merits the godson hapless people
prison. President shouldn't have been there that were innocent. I respect that
what I now know. The new york times call me the most famous her,
an ever exotic, the most famous exonerate history, the american legal system. If that's true, I took this case. They took this case and did that to it
that to me, despite being that, guy a lawyer,
one of the team, and did this to me so
I have to say:
I was locked up akard I could get in car.
drive to their office? I could pick up the phone
make em talk to me on death row
didn't have a car and certainly
never phone. I had the one
and I do not know if I was that invisible as a famous client
can you imagine how invisible those poor people are that they represent, because they don't see the point?
and just- and I say this
live and don't think I'm saying it easily cause, I know I'm being recorded, but you know what I'm ok
I like it is eroded eyes like they go because it's true, they don't see the human being
They see you as a number of docket number and up
so for their website. If they went donations, donations, money, money, money, money, keep the train going, keep them,
you're going,
that's a hard thing to say
by saying all alone, I'm saying the innocents project of new york and taxes, I'm referring to on that
I'm not telling everyone
as to the orders satellite organisations into the you know. Greece, like that, just my experience with the ones that I worked with these two.
they don't see the persons who I wonder, how much so
bring buying prison walls, someone
was there with, because he has had to be willing to say
what, if we could do. I have no hope,
I have no money. I have no way to ever get out of this nightmare, so whatever you do, if you can get me out goddamn just I love you, and so you give it to him, but see this case was different. I I want
Put together this case, I worked so hard. I
alive. I got myself back in the court under the harshest of
a new rules that allow someone convicted. They go back in the core claiming innocence, and I did that
and I got it and I got these
used to help me and I was willing to die
I let me make this clear to use you understand when
told them. No, no,
deals. I don't give a shit about exonerates me and lab lab. I know deals, I'm not going out the back door, the legal system anymore. I want to walk through the front door, I'm innocent, and so I told them that
clearly in and decisively unequivocally absolutely there would be no deal in this case and that I was willing to die for this and they said to me carry
I know what you're doing you get the prosecution agreed and get a fair trial. That's a lie,
exoneration in america and you'll be free. You that's enough,
What do you want to carry out what you wanted, then you want to be
Saudi arabia cause. You can't pick your son of school. You can't go in
a grocery store around women, because I was at that guy.
Nobody did not. Why not say whether smokers fire and just live with having to.
Never a treadmill of suffering. It there's no one at all, but you're always running you always running, and I wanted real free.
And I told them you wanna do justice. If you, if you go to court, you could lose here's what I told him just and I said,
I would rather go to court the hearing and let this guy
screw me and do the same. I rather losing courtroom seeking justice on my feet, then take a deal
a walk out on my knees. I've lived
fruit for forty years. Why not? What I wanted
agree to a lie that they did
nothing wrong. Just so I can be exonerated. I rather lose and I stand on they stared at me and went silent. Listen what as it yet
Oh I'm warning you as the client. No more meetings with the DA's office know there will be.
Deal in this case, because I'm willing to lose. If I go to a hearing and we lose, I said-
This is it. This is guaranteed. Carry the prosecution will agree to me,
We line above annually,
they got you'll be exonerates illegal exhilaration, you had a golden ticket for
total exoneration freedom right there and I did and plus
there's, no doubt I would have one actual innocence to buy. Instead, I took the golden ticket. Looked at it.
And after losing doorway only brother, my mom, my dad everyone. I said you know I carry
open heart surgery later. You know, therefore, suicide attempts. You can't give up its work
some things are worth dying for and I look
I need a morrison's eyes and very shack, and I said- and this is one of them, though,
no deal, and I turned it down and I paid the ultimate price because
by firing them, I wasn't ready for the joy, verse, actual innocence hearing I
disputed, Robert Wickham, you know some of what we already just talk about. The judge said that the other
it showing guilt, rabbit wickham outweigh the evidence from showing innocence, which
It's so bizarre! I don't even want to address that part, but
I knew I knew just I was given up- goes back to that they were talking about. I made a decision a consciousness.
Decision to do whatever it took the brain,
truth out with me. Tell this story whether would help kids adults. People in the legal system just would be
a reason. The chains what's broken I'd be a voice, for I gave up everything
everything to be here?
as I wanted
was a lawyer that we fight for me and they didn't.
In their minds. They might have thought they were fighting for exoneration, but that's not again. That's not what
you wanted in and you are not willing to be a martyr for your cause and they weren't willing
the martyrs themselves. They weren't willing to follow you down. That path will be,
Oh misunderstand: you: they ain't round. I think people think
that the exoneration of you was the most important point when you wanted these people held accountable for what they have done to you and due to others,
exactly and nobody seemed to everyone miss that point. No one hair desert me when you can't you can't boxes,
stem the system continues on and it does not have time for air correction
Yes, it doesn't look just in here
Something else see that you need to you need to know.
because it's a mac microphones
raw lawyers. You know that the cap
as being very eloquent and decide
where there was an emails or directly with them. Why
would be no idea why I wanted them to stop meeting with the days office and they would come back
over and always, if I'd, never told him. I'm gonna tell you as if it was there.
explain to a dead, still revert to the sea
casuistry and go right back to it with
say to me jerry. You read up with
anger for revenge
You know that you be
It's all raise the best revenge of all. They gotta, they gotta admit
you are never given a fair trial. Jerry
let go the anger and I would say this back I'd said jerry nina you're, not getting it
shit you're, not getting it might do. This is not
ribands it is about it.
Billy, but it's not about anger in
I'm giving hard unrepentant are no it's about the place
glascock or misconduct, accountability and the false evidence that it created.
The judges considering on actual innocence, that's cage is I'm not looking for revenge, but
Evidence that was created was false, its due to lay some prosecutor misconduct. If you take this deal, they get off the hook. For that
and I had the great and never mention it, and we can't even tell the judge about it and in him
deciding actual when, as is going to sign an agreement and what you have agreed not to allow those subjects to be brought to the judge that it's over
with this agreement, I really was you know it's it's odd, it's odd how much I connect with you, the things that you know the last few days talking or taxing just. Why
I get a quick connection with you. I usually don't get with guys. You know, but anyway, you're you're, you're
I was willing
Debbie martyred. Ah, I was willing, they say.
Gotta hearing and you lose,
judge. Maize may say that your
cause you're actually guilty. Now, carry that
really argue that destroy your career with kids. I
You ve done everything you built up to now could meet
joy over that and I thought how not block is out even
swanny they're they're, trying to blackmail me to take an ideal, but in the end
and I said this storm- you know what that's what happens, then that's what happens but I'd rather.
Walk. It have a hearing and have all this evidence of what they ve done to me.
based on homosexuality. I read
all this before them out expose again, not just
for me, but how many thousands of people have? They died?
in some cases dead, because dead people can't tell their stories
to me I carry a burden and my heart. The d, the story of the dead to some of the executions has happened, some other
that the homosexual murders, as happened entirely just because someone was gay them
caught the ongoing this conduct? I mean
Someone has to stand up to and not just go along the illnesses project.
the go along and I stand up to it so they did it
Michael Morton's case, but they wouldn't
Oh, my god, oh no baby
not agree with this, but it reminds me of that. The vietnamese buddhist
monk who set himself on fire to make a statement and people say well now, you're give oft yourself now you're gone
now your voice is not being heard, but
You are willing to go to that level of pretty much self destruction approve your point
and I will tell you right now. I absolutely understand. Why
fired your lawyers I
slowly understand why you felt that way, because you ve gone to relay leaves a lot to me, because I've been along with that, except for my wife, she's, the only one that knows this
suffering the pay. Ok,
be real that the tears now I've cried I've. I've heard so
barely being judged and abused by people on
facebook in other places, because eight
like I made the wrong decision and injustice
they don't know have one I know did they think I'm just some for kitten who luckily,
stumbled his way out of prison, I'm serious whether this is.
Are you go it's just a truth. I thought my way
The present one of my super lawyers who represented me twice, would tell you
this is not the story. The taxes legal system running, I like the cavalry
saving, carry good. The
story here is how carry cook saved himself from all of us now, just say it
name as these all you get some music.
Harris counting lawyer, let my best friend now you our very close.
ok kids are already asking what's for dinner, but
breaking news empty fridge. That's ok! I'll! Instead cart
that's morgana asparagus in some farm, fresh chicken, easy way is the old
vegetarian this week, or was it gluten free gluten? Free pasta covered either way card it and finally,
Some vegetarian gluten free olives for my well earned cocktail when
our family shopping list as more footnotes than groceries the world is your cart visit in the car.
Com or download the app and get free.
Livery on your first order, offer valid for
at a time minimum order, ten dollars deliveries
to availability, additional term supply. I was trying to
verbal eyes. What I felt with some of the worst grievances of justice against you and
I think it was your wife who cut in and said it's when carry was at its lowest when he
mutilated himself in prison and when the press,
accusers turned around
use that against him in his case, the action
the show violence the show body is dangerous. This has proven its art, the horror that they have put upon. You has driven you too
pretty much madness, and then they use your madness against you and I thought thou.
there again, the van, are you single? What we're going out to get get married man, you're freaking me out. Just then I mean man.
How do you know that you got me you you get me really
sorry, that's out of figure out now, you're very funny,
last I live in a big it. Oh my god,
This guy is really hitting on me on the air, no not happening yeah. Well, it's it's it's true, though. What you just said, so that's weird that you would know to say that, because
There was media all around the world. I don't get that kind of death, and in my situation you know you must
have a person, I didn't have to go, spend time in jail or prison or be totally wronged.
somebody or the system to be able to see things. Clearly, that's
yeah, I guess my gift or my curse, whatever you want to call it. No, no! It's it's it's! It's! It's a gift! It's a gift! Yup
That's
It means a lot to me because I did
precise alive in people
I know that story and I did give up a lot in prison to make the first half the survive. The first half, then I gave up more to survive. The second half
it was always be given up in
Those around me never having to give up anything.
including my lawyers and you know, and then probably shouldn t this. What
Well, here I was so broke. I couldn't even pay attention
surviving no health insurance surviving off speaking.
Once project is making me get people to finance
my case tastes, and here they always multi billion dollar corporation, and there was
oh greedy, that they were
me to get people to find.
It's my case all you do. A lot of celebrities carries it. They'll donate rays
money for that,
again. This export get this day right hasn't. Do they do that, and I did do that, but an hour
ass for return was that they not try to add that person to their donors lives.
That was my brain. That was something personal to this case, but did they listen?
nice thing and other they're invitations that I gotta say come join the annexes project data.
Dang in new york. While we, you know, we have fourteen innocent risotto, he is going to come up there and and feel comfortable to donate. If you want to, and that's the thing
I told him not to do because I need my
the elder wet before I could say the world you're asking them
for a favor and its disrespectful for you to expose them to all this publicity or whatever. Exactly I get it,
I'd been familiar with you, you know in the past
ass. I knew who you were, but it wasn't intel bob rough was covering your case and then
when you fired the innocents project that
I knew you were young at him and adapt lloyd. I read up on it now.
I looked at the reasons why in
Much as I am a supporter of the innocents project as much as I love that they exist, I told
agreed with everything you did like. I would probably done something well, let me
say eyes. I I need here tat man, I've taken up quite a beating interest
long as I am and all that I can have the sense it
there is a lot of a child to because prison being so brutal,
is like that imprisoned. It didn't teach me
Had I hated it show me the importance of love. It taught me how to love in belarus
in our very that's what made me so.
Pardon me- I'm a very carrying solve spoken, sensitive person and at all times
I was at way with the innocence project, because I was being me about. I was in a place where I could trust and be me, and while I just felt like
so invisible and it hurt especially the results? I fired my lawyers,
a couple of what light a week before the actual, when the critical actual necessary and and here's what the public
does it now and is being heard for the very first time. Well
you know just an I did come around as much as I
like them is the part that are there
same system that I'm trying to revolt against and fix, but you know I came to my senses.
about a week later day before a couple days before the actual innocent syrian.
Eliza lifers wasn't a day and I send emails.
I send emails to bury shack. I send emails to are needed,
so the gary edition, in which I said I know I can't take back what I said: I'm not caught him.
I can't do apologizing could I do mean what I said, but having said that, it's a terrible,
stay. What I've done I've left myself viable were. The judge could rule against men
I have a career with or with with cancer.
Operations in it. They take what a judges that is the truth I could beat my career could be damages all. I got
I can lose that had the loser, though, with the lisa
and collateral damage possible, because I brought up
so myself by going back into court. Believe me, I could. I gotta make the system change
and see. The truth is, however, that my
forty years of publicity in writing by saying book that they would. It would make the difference so
I forgot to say well, as I suggest in view went crawling back to the innocents outside our crawley I want crawled,
back to them begging them. They help me take me back
don't bother motion to withdraw because
I won't have any lawyer and there's no time. The judge won't give a postponement. He was already at the statutory deadline
on a hundred eighty days, he had had the case dawn by statute, and he
you gonna postpone it? Are you try to get other postponements like a work on their other cases, which was an
The problem always had with them, but it has denied it,
at a hundred eighty days and he wasn't gonna postponed that july. First, they anyway, so I beg them not to withdraw,
all that I I was going to need them to have any chance on actual innocence is important to me. Wasn't about the money it was about that declaration and what I could the job I could get in texas. The things I could do with with having been fully completely clear like that
said, and for the first, I'm remembering it on a par with you. I was in a body
as for a while,
stay there and then hear you come on facebook, hey gotta, talk to you now that the bright over my body count
read it all over again, ripen that a day off, they said no will carry.
We can't Gary's already followed emotion to withdraw the judge ground
and it and the judge all
oh granted carry you know. You said you want to represent yourself, the judge granted
so there are some silver lining through your situation and I'm gone
I'm sorry guys are you kidding me? Are you fucking kidding me
everyone knows that the person represents themselves have in a court of law, is a fool for climate and not even me is.
Even I know that, though I could not represent my
I needed them to come back. They had all the case. I knew all the stopping the experts goddamn.
I go with guy named mark bennett
we met, don't know
until I met him the night before the hearing, he only had a case for a week
and he was battling with so much met. Bingham prosecutor on police
condo. He couldn't focus on the case so that
stay. He goes in the courtroom. Judge all can order court cause one day
Some is over. There was something I order in case they had taxes governmental,
this is why I am one of those Eric was ended.
That's right! You want to start the proceeding. Yes, are you honor? He looked back at me and he says,
honour. This is a story about love and betrayal and in his
to have an hour he uses, maybe fifteen twenty minutes. Mosen seeds is time and the prosecution gets up their key dollar high hagen.
There was a special prosecutor. Usually when you hear special prosecutor, it's it's
the prosecution has been accused of wrong doing and you have to go outside the aid
soon get another's. What's got special prosecutor. Well, in my case-
Howdy defines all the rules they didn't have won, but they had three special prosecutor.
In my case, all designed to help them in
there was a simple matter in this case if they lost so here
here:
but with all that- and he tells the judge that after twenty five minute love him
Trail tirade that surely this law
love and betrayal case gives the court
reasonable doubt about the guilt of the accused and
I'm writing notes, I'm doing hanged hand signals. I would if I would add a big later. I would start a small fire and made smoke signals anything it took to get this lawyers.
Cancer because I'm trying to tell him
No, no, no, that's the legal!
standard breast,
witnesses- isn't guilt beyond reasonable doubt its by clear.
Compelling evidence or as a major difference under the statute
compelling you base there
Jesus Christ, representing you and swearing attesting at the person, is actually edison before the court will agree.
The others nanda do. Basically I shall be put into the bids tables accused of a crime
and the jury,
it has to have a reasonable doubt whether or not you're guilty big difference, and so that's how that went, and you know
and you are sad. I must I sound completely insane. Just tell me the truth. Now, as I thought I was better off by though I was doing better when it is, but evidently I just one
go into well. There you find in this the hearing
Of course, you get slaughtered and tat. It sucks to hand
if hindsight, twenty twenty would you have gone back and done anything differently? Would you ve not fired them? Would you ve gone before
with an exaggeration and actual innocence? Ah
This is so new.
This is so new that I have prepared myself for that public question yet cause one quarter:
appeals rules.
yeah, one way or another on on this reform hobby. Any time now
I'm sure some one in the media is going to ask me that question either, no matter how it goes, I have good practice and yet ways,
spare me thing about it. How take a moment the art is a dichotomy and I'll. Tell you I'll tell you want
On the one hand, it is painful to say- because I know it's true
I know they are never shut
beyond a shadow of a doubt had I not fire
as an innocence, project of new york and taxes. I would
one the actual innocence hearing, because even if the judge ruled against me like he did his
This is for his ruling one events so
amazing, aided so ready,
to ashes by the truth the record. The fact that the court of appeals would have
in this case, what they did in the san antonio for world again
the judge eroded
As for women were actually edison about crime, the courtroom
recently we have four months ago fathom actually innocent against the lower courts willing san Antonio
as they did documentary about him called
return. Asylum, interesting story,
their innocence so because it's almost killed,
it had. Another prosecution will be very glad to hear that on his part castle,
put me in the ground breaking more bring them some more now that I've always been
motion- or I am always wanted-
do the right thing and stand up for for the principle of it. I think
would have shut my mouth and
smarter by telling the truth
story in the documentary. Like you know, when he stood up and said the maybe I was basically the goes there
every prosecutors in taxes our told that what bullshit
that was in the documentary. But then, though I carry thanks is this, and this is what caused me to fire.
and here I agree with the latter, not the former and ass this
I knew if I let them
go go along with it. Even now they can
me silent, walk out the courtroom here as well
the pilot exonerate. I'm supposed to be able to raise
hey in celebration.
and then Matt Michael Morton as their he's china whole my own up. Armor
the photograph with the media, saying
it's relaxed and I says, project nina Moreno. Take your arm that you know Michael know, can't take that picture with him, no,
because they had this deal with the prosecutors. If they wouldn't expose them, they would make a big deal out.
we being exonerated and that carry that make sure
shut jerry down and make it not allow him to make any damage
MR com.
I will be allowed to speak so, on the one hand,
I suppose, be exonerated, but yet I wasn't allowed to walk out, isn't exonerated person because they said we still me
Matt big, I'm on the actual illnesses. Maybe he won't quota quote fight his heart. If you not magazine, that's it
bullshit offers any lawyer. Listen you right now, listen us they're, gonna break out
I mean they're, not gonna, believe a lawyer could actually take. Someone is
basically what I haven't say that to them and not. Allow me to act exonerated, because
they're holding out with this secret relationship. They form with the DA's office to hold out for actual
this is a lesson, a lesser fight. That's one thing! On the other, I think I wanna steel.
Fired on, and the reason I would have is because I saw it they had
warmed a relationship we met. They won't to share the emails with me of ask them as the client I'm entitled to the email.
As you and mapping on exchanges,
leading up to making a steel, and I say to me he says to me: carry these
personal between me and that being on, and I don't have the shadows you
or your lawyer after listening and this right now
and you hear that you're going what bullshit that is yeah,
you think you have to do with me, representing me as an attack
my authority, especially him negotiating with the prosecutor
meetings and emails, I'm entitled.
That as the attorney he cannot will hold out for me. So the point is: if I built up so much distress
whether they just want an exaggeration,
whatever their motive was I'll, never know, but I built up so much this trial,
That's the only way. I could protect myself and my story and I hope the people it would mean
two would be the fire them in and take the loss show that it really wasn't about the money show that it really was about the truth when Linda Joe Edward and carry max cook the two victims in his case and
they are still would have done it. I still would have taken the loss but
I think I would have one I think, even at the court, the judge would judge carter. What role against me. The coroner appeals,
would have done a similar thing,
in San Antonio for the court. What have declared be actually answered?
but now I think I lose- I I think I lose on both counts, so you you'd still want to make the statement of walking away from this cause. I'm not going to make a deal that puts that. Doesn't
that allows prosecutors to walk away like as if they did nothing wrong unscathed. Yeah. Is it
nothing like that was the deal they may that they basically
the walk away. They did nothing wrong, the police did it all is what they're saying that
please don't do all alive, but a prosecution
a too, and I
beer without both up and working hand in hand to violate my civil rights using homer
sexuality, their prejudice against the do it. So what? What is your status now
right now we're on the records gone. The judge, the judge me what's cod, are piling up,
fact, conclusions of law and all that goes up to the texas court of criminal appeals on on a mandatory appeal. There
there should be no oral arguments should be nothing else file. The cases closed, its
ending the quarter,
feels ratifying the deal, the deal
That, then, is this project may dropped all the allegations judged. Skiing
idi clark many clark than I've
frame? Got jailhouse confessions, the just all of it dropped all those claims in exchange for Matt.
And the prosecution, agreeing that James mayfield did in fact commit perch
he was a material witness in the outcome.
the trial would have been different. I would have been acquitted. All allegations were dropped. That may be
did in fact line, and I would have a different outcome would have appeal appeared. If you had the bends alive, we couldn't tell you they took
they struck out the part where the prosecution neue was lie and
was there witness now they wouldn't agreed that so we'd already proven
we always lie. Did he
interview I allude to. He gave it to them.
greater resolve, as in my attorneys, they all went to use in taxes the month before
maybe I'm arranged it bought files, a woman,
turn general. I taxes, bar association, pressed
it. Ain't representing for over forty years is biggest crook as icon, there's no more.
cook in a lawyer than him may feel
was granted immunity
for the murder of the dough edwards and he confessed that that he did have the book. The sexual martyr
and that he lied about not being in the apartment that he had in fact been in an apartment and but he walked, he walked as close to the edge confession.
get because according to jerry addition, he said looking at his word,
I was sitting right beside him. I was gonna
my wife. This is the codes
May I say I'm asleep or not. I try to use his words.
imagine that recreate this. He said he looked at my lawyer, Gary addition said
She was gonna, follow me they use and they ruined me. That's a closer. He gets to confessing, but here's the thing that was
recorded stenographer, invention and mission
didn't they didn't need to make an agreement on that ground five into an end. Not
wipe out everything else just in we are, that was
already clear. He wasn't material material witness. It was already clear that that
the only reason the jury convicted me because he claims he didn't have sex with her and he didn't.
She was like a daughter. I mean why that was my
point we didn't need to make ground agreed aground by, but if the corridor,
agrees as it does just in it removes the conviction,
dismiss the indictment, nor does it dropped the charges. So
could have a murderer indictment lingering over me and pep prefer and other wars. Asses
It was where I'm at before I even went back into court and got exonerated, because I still can't fill out a job application. I still can't get a rent, a hotel. I still can't get an apartment because I can't pass it back
because you're not technically a twice convicted sex offender and murderer right now. We're yes exactly. I don't see it if the court,
doesn't it they do ratified. All going to be doing is going out
conviction now, there's something else I can do and finally stand up,
and say it loudly for the world to know they could all
So, like the san antonio for case they did, they could say
We disagree with the jobs we find that carry myself is actually us, and here is why, but you know they got
grandma, it's easy, its quick. There are the pudding work into there. Aren't the red
the thousands of pages of transcripts, I can just say, yeah well, this is already a done deal. All you, gotta do is say yeah and all that does is reverse.
Conviction. Does it get me to actual innocence and hey? You know they said they would drop it
charges and dismiss the indictment of Amelia
upon the coroner appeals- really,
ratifying the agreement as what they said, the lawyers, but if he does it goodies,
so pissed off at me, mad big hates me in all of smith, county prosecutors. Hate me in the police hate me because I have
them alive in the world's media. S reason no such thing as bob robin and solomon in mid county justice, corruption, cap of the world. I did that
There's a spotlight, there's a mine, magnifying glass, there they're getting all this unwanted attention because they had an they hate me or Matt. Being on how's awake and hurt me how well a lift
I he may try to retry began seriously another seriously convention story somewhere. That's why I'm so scared its eyes
with county jail all over again. I'm here to talk to anybody. I'm scared.
answer anybody on facebook. Is it a planet? I mean look, it's true
fuckin paranoid now
told them
blame you in the slightest I've. I know you do
I can tell you get it, that's why I'm really like it,
and you man, I mean. I feel I feel you are getting it and that makes my job telling the truth as a purveyor of truth to get it out, because if I got to build too much and explain too much, I keep losing the point. So I guess my final question to you would be: what can the public do for you to help you? While you know that's, that's a good question. Johnston said
Send me a friend request on facebook. You know post your support, because my other friends that are there have kind of drifted off. They don't really get it. You know you know, saving the facebook, but most of the
what right the media right, the austrian Travis county media, any big publications, you know, carry max cook
Be exonerated, just like the san antonio for because, where
similar is that the court, the lower court, the district judge, denied their actual innocence in a core group feels overruled. It is the first time in history, a core colonel pails ever did that, so it would help if people would know that case and say carry max cooked should be declared actually innocent. Just like this
tony for and how right right, the right to edit Oreo online posts, things like the readers right, you don't tweet it come on,
has hashtag. I didn't do it anything they
can do, because what matters to me it makes me feel not so long justin.
think that, on the one hand I had this machinery of this,
walker row army of fighters, and I haven't you think I had this- this up, media pr farm. I don't
You think I have a lawyer who does all this for me, I don't. I'm currently is unrepresented as you can get
I have nobody, but just me
I am standing here at ted
square man standing in front of a tank. Refusing the boy
image. My stupid or suicidal, maybe a little bit above, but I won't give up and all the support and the world would help me
by pulsing riding things to the media in texas, not just
and genuine no taxes, targeted people watching the quarter of appeals. In this case, and that's
eight, because when that all went down, you had a lot of people, leave you
in the dark and a lot of people walk away and
cloning, my long time along time, brand Jim Mccluskey S, interior ministries, organization, it they'll find. As my case, he thought I thought I was being still
an impulsive fiery nam? Disagree with me, but he didn't know
the story he didn't know what
But you know here it is to just see what today about this people going to present a vicious face. It
do they come from broken homes or the one thing they have in common while we're all broke, we all come from just
lower income families, because that's how we get the present. You know that we have no represented
You were just seen as a dock. At number and whether you black white, yellow
around the color of injustice and america's green. The cholera money
What does it matter? What what color you are? Some people disagree with that, but I just
We would then, because I lived in- I know the color of justice in america is green. That's how
I got the prison in so many other people there, like me, and people
and is project of new york. As is guilty of this, all organizations are, I'm sure
everybody is. They judge you
because you're, not a millionaire you're, not you're, not amend as brothers with other millions. It killed their parents in ireland
you got Gloria what's up,
It was your lawyer, ret red, read our whatever name. Isn't you know you're just a dirt poor
seen from this source of america and europe are treated like dad you're, giving me a public defender than give a shit about you just want to get through to the next case they being paid so little and
the situation in the bill of rights where this is biodegradable toy paper. It only matters if have money to make it work. That's what activates the bill of rights and the constitution money. When you don't have it it's on activated in you, get rode over like a steam engine, tenements were take, but what happened is I mean
myself. Somebody I took us. I took something for nothing and made made myself some spokespeople.
In a a fighter a warrior I still was invisible, because people go to prison, aren't supposed to be smart. They're not supposed to be fighters are not supposed to they're supposed to just be thankful and grateful
this lawyers represent a you, and I was all those things purse, but they want.
Ah, my boys being taken away again
the bottom line is I'm not supposed to be,
hu, I am, but I am and there's a lot of people like me the problem as a system so broken it. Does it see em? Why does our own lawyers don't see him? So what I'm saying is that it would help to have people support made it
listen to this podcast here this story and think that you know this isn't just carried.
Look. I wonder in mice
or in my county here you don't have to be black,
america be shot and wrongly convicted decide to be poor or are the same color on death
oh black, white, yellow brown, and that clearly coding man, you know trying to use polite lay words until you like it is because that's the real
ruth and it hurts. But that is the that's his does. It hurts? It hurts a hurts so much that these days,
with consequences. I've had open heart surgery.
I'm really really really taken a beating
here on a really bad. I suffer from
her renders ptsd that's a whole you climb out of it
all I want is for
the matter. I want people
care I I'm so alone. I don't have any family. I want
using for the person. I am what
I've gone through what I've tried to do for other people are what I
its standing up to these this corporate organization or smith. County
he's. Gonna teach, my son there good can
I believe, all this
they show. That is what you can
you find your voice, you can stand up and you can win teaching us.
in principle there. But apart from that, I thought I would matter to the rest of the people.
States. You know I thought I could make a difference.
God knows I struggled to do that. It would be that difference
but I wanted to be in the world. Was it worth it? Should I take him
I family through
Should I listen to what my friends told me?
let it go carolina go you can't win you can't when I'm not gonna win, ignored,
everybody not out of a sense of nurses or not out of a sense of thinking I was right, is no. I
and because I thought the truth will just not matter to me. What would better to a lot of other people, like me
and I have all the support and the support will become a
Thirdly- and I never be alone again- or god- damned and work out like that, but you did make a statement and I think
an idea lives on that's what you did do. Thank you just and I'm here of uniting our. I thank you. So much man I buy,
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Transcript generated on 2022-10-16.