« The Generation Why Podcast

Kerry Max Cook - 218

2017-02-05
Kerry Max Cook. Tyler, Texas. June 10, 1977. A young woman named Linda Jo Edwards is brutally murdered in her room. Her roommate, Paula Rudolph, will describe seeing a silver-haired man she saw standing in Linda's doorway. Despite the description, a psychologist will create a profile of the killer that steers the investigation towards a bartender named Kerry Max Cook. This started a 40+ year nightmare for him as he fought a system intent on getting him convicted despite evidence pointing towards the woman's ex-boyfriend. In any case in which both the victim and the wrongly convicted have been failed by the justice system, most would support and encourage them to make a deal that illustrates the failures of the investigation, identifies the actual murderer, and exonerates the convicted. When it comes to this case, though, such results seem unattainable. Join us as we discuss the case and ask Kerry Max Cook what it will take for justice to finally be served in this decades old case. See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.
This is an unofficial transcript meant for reference. Accuracy is not guaranteed.
This episode is brought to you by peacock bridge ending the original limited series, a friend of the family. on the story of the Jan roper, kidnappings from, again Tosca executive producer of the act and candy and direct producer, eliza, hip and comes a dark compelling look at the harrowing story through new lands produced which amber burke herself this theory stars anna pack, when jake lacy college hanks LEO Tipton. and mckenna grace stream, now only on peacock, take a moment to get away from her sponsor racket and ragged ten is the smartest and most rewarding way to shop and save earn cash. I'd over thirty five hundred stores and every single category like fashion beauty, electronics, homosexuals travelled, dining subscription services and much more membership is free. and it's really easy to sign up rocketing It's your cash directly in your paypal account or they can your check it no brainer, you can earn tk back for what you already are shopping for rocketing has
fifteen million members who are already saving star all your shopping at racquet and outcome, or get the rackets an app to start saving. Today, that's racket in our aid hey? U t e n dot com new ideas and doing good just and how are you doing wonderful tonight's episode? We speak with carry max cook.
Who has a incredible story about being on death row for a crime that he should have been exonerated for he has some very colorful language, so listener discretion advised quick. Thank you, too, are modern on social media You're doing a wonderful job and we, like the light handed approach I'll take the social media justin referred to is our facebook group. So if you haven't been there check it out at the generation why group on facebook and are models are lisa, Amy, samantha and Erika. Thank you
Much we're gonna do a quick summary and then we're gonna jump into the interview, tyler, texas june tenth nineteen, seventy seven, some time between twelve thirty and twelve forty five, a m Paula rudolf, would return to her apartment after a date upon entering, she would see a man in the doorway of her roommates room. His hair appeared to be medium length and silver and he wore white shorts. His skin looked hand. She assume that he was James mayfield, who was Linda Joe Edwards ex boyfriend Linda her roommate must have had him over. She would hear the patio door open and close within minutes. Paula was in bed at around seven a m. She would check on Linda and discover that she had been murdered. The injuries to her body were shocking. Clothing was
off stab wounds to her breast throat back in battle area, she had been physically and sexually mutilated. A broken plaster statue seem to have been used to render her unconscious. As placer was found on and near her body. No signs of struggle or defence were discovered while she was examined paul, rudolf and Linda Joe Edwards had worked for me. Old, he was dean of library services at what was then texas. Eastern university Linda was his periodicals clerk. They had an eighteen month affair which would be revealed after he broke things off with her, and I may twentieth nineteen. Seventy seven she would attempt to overdose.
and sleeping pills. The university would learn of their relationship and both would be fired. A few days after the murder, a psychologist who lived in the same building named jerry land room, met with the police and created a profile of the murderer. He described an introverted man between the ages of eighteen and thirty, gay or bisexual and possibly high on drugs, who was a sexually inadequate mail with pathological hostility. And who mutilated the victim as he did in hatred and anguish. A man who lived in the building and was said to be bisexual was carry max cook. He was twenty one years old and a bar tender with an arrest record for auto theft and nineteen. Seventy three and criminal mischief in eighteen. Seventy, six
ex fingerprints found on the outside. The patio door were matched to cook and he would be arrested in august of nineteen. Seventy seven witnesses would implicate him at his first trial. Paul rudolf would now state that lights caused cooks, hair to look silver and shorter than it actually was. A fellow inmate of cooks would testify that cook had fast to the murder. A sheriff deputy testified that, while escorting carry max cooked the courthouse that cook spoke to him, do you think I killed her. well, I killed her and I don't give a shit what they do to me. Three trials would take place. He would be tried, convicted and sentenced to death. His first conviction came on june. Twenty eightth nineteen, seventy eight a technicality would overturn these results, a second trial commenced and ninety ninety.
you, but would end with the jury deadlocked in ninety ninety four, he was tried again found guilty and given a death sentence. Two years later, the verdict was overturned. Opinions from the court of appeals that rendered the decision, included the states. Misconduct in his case does not consist of an isolated incident or the doing of a police officer, but consists of the delay britain misconduct by members of the bar representing the state over a fourteen year period, The initial discovery proceedings in nineteen, seventy seven through the first trial, a night
in seventy eight and continuing with the concealment of misconduct until nineteen. Ninety two based on evidence, many believe kerry, max cook's wrongful convictions to be the worst in texas history. Despite these issues, it looked as though prosecutors would take him to a fourth trial in nineteen. Ninety nine, before the trial began, prosecutors offered cary a deal plead guilty and be released with time served and charges would be dropped, Kerry, maintained his innocence and refused to plead guilty. The district attorney would make another offer on the day. Jury selection was to begin plead, no contest and the case would be dismissed. This was an unprecedented offer in a texas death penalty case. Kerry wanted to be proven not guilty in court, but the abuses he suffered in prison made accepting the deal an attractive compromise at the time. Two months later. Dna testing would reveal that semen stains found at the scene.
of the crime, were a perfect match for James mayfield, who had testified that it had been weeks since he had had sex with Linda edwards because of his deal with Psmith county. Carry max cook is left in a place that hans him. While he is a free man, he has not been exonerated. Despite over, many evidence of his innocence. He remains a second class citizen who cannot be at peace, There are those who always consider him a violent killer because of his two convictions and his plea deal in his quest for justice. Carry max cook has made a controversy or move. He fired his innocence project legal team. Anyone who has followed wrongful conviction cases knows how important innocence projects have been to freeing people who were found guilty. Despite evidence to the contrary for carry max cook, though, nothing is more important than holding prosecutors accountable for what they did to him and countless others. Just an interviewed carry about his forty year ordeal. I would ask everyone listening to
in mind that this isn't just a case of carry max cook being wrongfully convicted and having his life destroyed of prosecutors, lying in cheating, their way to convictions and not being held accountable? It's also a case of a woman who was violently murdered and for whom justice was never served, hygiene and thanks for inviting me under your your your podcast, I really appreciate a good friend of mine who mob tore guys, lady. No good. Just garcia, told me now what a stand up guy you in your podcast were so that encourage me to drop what I'm doing and in our see. If I can help you out some. So do you? the go over your case at all like lot, what only looking give like a brief overview of of year, the situation and and how you
went on where we are now white? What where we are now you re, because there is no such thing as a brief situation, the distressed by tat, you know, just as you have no idea or trials bore reversals, nor I mean just we beer for ever you'd be an old man with grand piano from. So let me see where, where would you want to? I did read your book. and I even went back and started rereading it to refresh myself on some of these points, but the most crazy injustice that I found during trial, at least as far as the evidence was, that fingerprint and them time, stamping the finger print. and I felt like there was no relevance in in scientific fact about it. So you want to talk about lobbying for it tat the thing a bread is extremely important under
united states law. The place just get kicked in the door of europe apartment, although this seem to do that more so now days. What are they just kept? Kick in you door inner you're a place of business. Were you own without Just accuse you of a crime. They had the habits called probable cause too asked you to search and all that They cannot arrest you or issue of search warrant without one under american law. So the problem calls in my case was: was the fingerprint sergeant dog collared at the summit, County police department are found on the outside of the patio door. Then the joy was apartment. He took that took the knowledge is that he learned through his investigation that I met limit the pool Twenty years old, she was twenty one, as working at a rocky whoa club, we met the bull and it was highs like honey,
ten degrees at day had dismembered really super hot and we're back. The report MT resorted made out of bed and sports and passion. marks on my neck and now there. They they had three or four as is told him that took polygraph has passed. Those guys statements testified before the grand jury and all that, but that's it that evidence gets sealed off. It is never heard again, but I need to go back to the figure break or see tens yellow, complicated, soda, Collared swears out of war for my rest for the prosecutors, mc idea, aids office and says the fingerprint a standard, twelve hours, o bag it it can only be put there at the time of the murder, so I'm arrested, based on that, once I'm put in solitary confinement and arrested. Well, that's all The rest of the case was made up and when I say the rest of it This was made about this sounds euro. So hard to believe, but as you
suggesting read my book and tell him it's true and speed. that I want to start this conversation out. I say idea, podcast, with bob rob Allah, barbara does that truth and justice, and I, as a gift for his listeners, I gave em up free copy of my book electronically. And I like to do the same for your listeners, because I think, they'll understand why link scholars call my or deal with smith county, the worst cases in history. I think if they could read my working and at the hay port and get that understanding They might understand the rest of me to you now. How did they get your book? How do we set sinners upon request I'll, send its warm on my facebook begin. We are carrying out scope chasing justice on my facebook. If you asked me for a copy your copy way be easier. We're talking about several thousand people have.
Oh, just a new hands around was a little too busy, for there is no problem and you say the whole cases made up against you and you're not kidding. Now this snarls really painful to read the evidence that they hold against you like a fingerprint. Yes, they found a fingerprint on the victims door and it was your fingerprints, but then they dont do say its fingerprint was found. They say had his fingerprint was found and it could only have been left there at the time of the murder, which there is no scientific way to test the age of a fingerprint. But if I could If I could, let me say this just because it gets kind of complicated only because it is that the extent of the dead man
of healthy and misconduct. I mean it's, it's so bad. So if you know my book, my best selling book was never disputed as hard as it says believe Well John gresham said it best. If it were make sure. No one would believe it. That's our compelling. The truth is so let me just take you. Do this part verse, and maybe the listeners would really understand the rest. Certainly do not want to read the book. One of them is, but so dull coloreds, whereas out there s war, I get arrested africa but a murder charges to the rape and murder. Ah love Linda Joe Edwards, I've put solitary confinement sail for the next year. My mom and dad didn't any money on their way. Retired military soldier served over twenty years in the? U S, army, boy raise overseas, a cigar, germany. Well, they give arrested. They haven't, they can mean a grand jury, thou speaking
a group of lawyers. They would automatically know that the prosecutions sensibly controls and jury. Whatever result they want with someone's. Nobody is because the prosecution wanted it not because it insufficiency the evidence, the prosecution controls the grand jury they decide beforehand. who gets indicted. Who does it? Who gets no build so They can the grand jury and just ass, it was It was over twenty almost thirty years. Thirty, five years later, we finally got this evidence I'm about to tell you about the prosecution. It's for generations of the smith county disk returnees up is hit. Is all the while trying to stick me execution chamber must like them a verbal die. caught him malpractice trying to bear their mistake with my execution. So here's what they did. The collar takes too sworn in, as well as their cheap witness before the grand jury. That indicted me.
and he says he found the finger brand and could only be six twelve hours. Oh- and here is the grand grandeurs ask him. So they knew this. Is the proof you have, and I have been all of us have that there segregation, and we ve got to the statements to review they knew I knew led. Edwards had been in her apartment as our bread guess, while they asked collared the foreman of the grand jury said now, MR collared, sure that fingerprint couldn't have been placed on that path? your door at a time when this time. We need more. We know he was in her apartment sugar, them some piggies as witnesses of dollars. You ve got collared, says on the cold, start record grand jury pages no, sir. It could not so that set these days it got me indicted, while hiding the fact that I knew Linda they created. They concocted up a profile of the killer that called for the purse
that rape and murder leonards, however, to be a homeless actual maniacal massaging ass woman, hating dysfunctional impotent homosexual male between ages of eighteen and twenty five. I automatically upon my arrest in internment enough county jail, solitary became door. What why dont number one they painted add on me. So did David states outward washing up so I gotta try your later in. This is how it off it. They'll collar testifies the fingerprint could have only been placed at the time of the murder and therein instigation, uncovered no evidence carry. Spoken, Linda Joe Edwards, had ever met or knew each other. You know he lives. they were private, complex to the path who conducted the autopsy. ah. He originally plain that shit
was she was killed at this. in time and there He could not determine evidence of rate that made a couple. A murderer, lenny test at my try. Your later he said, have any notes, and he just what's from memory, he thought an autopsy conducted the sink of a funeral. Warm and he said, add that up Linda, Jo Edwards died same time frame that doug collared claim the fingerprint had they been ten or twelve. Our time frame of the colored said that and had been lap, and then they I witnessed so averse s, sworn statement took a polygraph wrapped passed it. She positively identified J maybe he'll lender Joe Edwards eggs married five euro boyfriend as the killer, the man she saw the appointment- and I He came home at twelve thirty, I am had silver hair. She identified him to achieve
build rod face wearing white tennis, shorts J may feel it had just been out of the tennis court lying there in our know, broken out within three three weeks before and here wasn't haven't any of it, so she- completely changes our story ends and changes the time a death she backs up some, so I could be put there in time to be a purse possible person that could be a dinner As she says it wasn't. Jays mayfield I saw it was carry max cook when I ask about whether man to remove crooked here, onto his shoulder and brown. When she was Finally, with that use the light cut there and that she certain well and then they took that's about biologists, and then they took the eye, witness to change her testimony. tied it all up. This neat little package of guilt beyond reasonable doubt and I was sentenced to death.
in eighteen, seventy eight and then that fraud and more suppressed. and of dad's subordination, perjury prosecutor or police misconduct. All that was was bottled up in file and argued. appeals to execute me by. Another generation of smith, county prosecutors as the truth when they knew also it was true. They still had the records they kept see. Great, so no one could know out enjoy it was, but we finally got those record and even though we had those records, they still argued. The way to the united states supreme court. I confessed on and made the rebels. Just said she ought. She died at the same time. The export claim that kind of thing a bright was that on the patio door. Carbon put. It the time of the mirror and could confess to an end, in a smart guy jail. He shared a sandwich. I never share to sell it. Anyone I was in solitary just as you know, and this guy imported minute, you're lying later, but my point is, is
for generations, including the last once met being on generations on this myth, county disco, Terry's office and attire police department perpetuated What has been said by legal scholars. Worse case of it misconduct in american history. They perpetuated this fraud, forty years all the way to the actual innocent judge you, which I lost, because I had no lie. Just fired the innocents project for selling out when I thought was a truth in what I deserve to have come out in public hearing whether lost their one? So about the truth, when about money she describes james mayfield in her initial statement and then she says she doesn't know if it was him, but the end her first statement. She describes him to a t, and you look yonder on one side and she took a polygraph tests and passed it as
What no deception? It he was person she He saw in the apartment standing in lenders bedroom He was her height, they had so we cut above the years rod face and you know, she's out. I was handed back. She told the pilot managerial inadvertent or maybe it is. She told the pilot manager. She was the gone to inside the apartment managers office be tailor endorse, carpenter because in all the murder, the police were all in the apartment and up she won you now get her dad help remove or stop thousands. She waited for the funeral. come. Get the victim, an apartment managers, office, why we manage it already heard the buzz that was leading that it was not A person had been beaten up, but a person had been brutally murdered and, more so the scandal bought it already spread that those row make one.
Paul, a rude. The eyewitness here, paul a router says: it's jays made that guy there was dating her. You know that day. Twenty one year old girl, and so the five imagine More detailed indoors carpenter asked Paul rule out there. They said the place raw year we heard it was it was that professor maybe you tell the police you saw professor, hey field, an apartment, that last night you better be careful because, we as the dean of the university and that's it, What those two women testified to. One of them is dead now they said that all over I told them angrily angrily. You think I could gone to bed that night, unless I was absolutely sure who that wasn't my apartment. She said it was him so she new and what what the story is here is she
was made a change. Your testimony now you're listeners say, yeah. Why well your listeners. Our lot like me, then, because I wanted to know the answer- that the years to all. We all had our suppositions. We all legal experts new, this in thought that and of course she had been tampered with you now and made a convinced it was me and victims. I will give now that shit. in tat we, but then we found out the real. Ro the real reason and it came june of last year, two thousand sixteen come to find out a discredited former policemen who was working for the desk returnees always name Jake massey, a former scratted tire police officer. He, though, the motive for the they were looking for a homosexual and He was interviewing apartment. People who
paula route, all had all the attributes, of a man. She was a same dress. She soldier on close. She wore war. Manly like closed. She talk like a man. She are responded like a man and they thought had a crush on the young vibrant, Linda Joe Edwards at twenty one. So automatically and was hidden for forty years until we got the tape, lay under the s office. So Paul a rudolf herself became a suspect. Why? Because she fit the profile of being. Yea. They were looking for a homosexual if you're gay, you better. on the entire, because your asses going to jail and that's what happened on the tape he tells doors car The derby wanna do so you so she's really manly and Yes, yes, I think she's she's a man, and we should really
close to learn. Edwards ya think they were offered to close who klaus she motorway, whether she is is trying to help her so boring. Oh question is that the police department, advanced, paula, Paul, a know. All analysis, swaddle, I got some fifty seven, but taken there stir. She didn't change your testimony and say it was me and if she started at me bill story. She herself was assessed bag as possible as the killer, because fingerprints were all lower that apartment and she lived there as she should have been considered that's right. She was the first one to discover the body. She was the first one to report, it just a guess what not just that? Not only was she the first person to discover the body and report it, but he is what's wrong. really weird about that from several people Paul a route all
probably was she died recently is, was gay and a small bad his clothes mouth community. That's the salem which Charles man, I could get. You burn to the state to be gay I sexual people just hide that in these taxes, it's not like the rest of them Earl, especially in nineteen. Seventy seven a need Brian for those older and I'm really telling my age now for those in need of people. Member need a bride. Miss amiss florida. stories and aunt anti gave? I'm paying that it was a mental illness. We can't let these people but near children are rape as their pedophiles, their data, their sick people. She started. Albania and ball jerry thought, well it and want to cross united states, just basically lynching people- for being gay, and that was the I'm an and I arrested tried and convicted in call a rude. Ah, I think she was gay because they all talked about
ass. She was totally unaffected justin. She sat on the porch and people, walk up and say memory that's your roommate. Do you need a hog back up and I beg your email out just very man lay and my jaw and unaffected she's. What do the office the set out because she got tired of being people walking up to it. About what she saw so she's really cold person. so she should have been a suspect. I agree, but I never got the benefit of that evidence until a couple days before me. The mai June six, two thousand sixteen actual innocence hearing, because the prostitution headed for forty years, mad bingham, faxes, age, s and Y see is the next instalment of the award winning anthology series. American horror story, Chris, by ryan murphy and brad fell. Chuck with to all episodes airing each week. It promised to be a season like no other
it s an Y, see stars returning favorites like Zachary window and Billy lord, along with them faces, including Russell Toby and Charlie carver. Something Evil is coming at boxes. Yes and Y see premiers october nineteenth on ethics stream on hulu. the always really wanted that amazon that stuff that is discounted if you're naughty or nice, the there's the the witness that they say you confessed you ten, so it's her world markets comes out with more concessions in the back of bad again, so tell me, which
one are we talking about the one that happened on the elevator, the one Robert Wickham reserve, deputy, so you'd you'd been claiming innocence. For all this time. You'd even five. An injunction against investigate some police, because they were harassing you and your jail cell, and you were saying I've obtained count so I have a lawyer. You need to talk to my lawyer, but but still harassing you yet over this? entire time of you maintain your innocence. You jump now elevator and tela an officer? Yet I did it a seven Second elevator ride at that. But here it is, I'm sorry if I go on a long, but just so many moving parts. Where do you? Where do you find a pair Weird, I I see one when I'm talking. Sometimes I about that. What about this so I get arrested, they take pubic. From me and they take blood and head here,
They are real, let less! Ah, ah, if you think talk a motto was wroth. You needed experience smith county least interrogations they abroad brutal non, stop. They left. They put me naked and free inside a tartar police department I never forget it was. Were peach colored There was nothing in there, but for steel box it was now matters no cover. Just ugly red light in the top right hand, corner which was a balance came and they start. took every stage of clothing. I had struck me completely naked and had air conditioner turned up to like you know me, god it was you like sixty was so freezing it really was, it was freezing. Even had I been fully dress, it was breezy they put me in a naked and they had me on camera, and this is the record just in any
Every time I try to close my eyes to shear exhaustion. I urine It myself, so I'm laying in that laying in eyes are raising and they did not. You use arrest from either now, but he did not not on the plane. So anyway, look so They must have seen through the surveillance camera. I close my eyes and they re. stared rods got lieutenant rawlins got races and taken the bomb get up get up get up. You can go to sleep Not you tell us why now so five days later I end up into smith county jail in solitary confinement. On the sixth floor called side sale I the deck dogma, keeps coming up to mysel Bobby Van as to other was, and they come in. Cell was dark, they come in, they sit on the bed, tell us about, Robert high, on your homosexual lover. We know you're a clear way, don't without thought you for that
you know what you're gonna get that need a bright woman up in here and our brain a lot and embarrassment to your family right down the road. Won't you just Tell us about your boyfriend and you I can go on and as it I don't know, you're talking about Robert Honneur, barely know I'm so I'll bring a hamburger they bring up. I can and oh Henry candy more than an on my bed in interrogate me and then- time scare me about what they were doing at present want me. If I wouldn't, I wouldn't album on then I'm gonna go down and and they're gonna really do some serious thought the man prison while that ended up I must have then, seers or something of that became true but anyway. Ah, so I couldn't get. It was those I became so afraid there were make something up on me and I I wasn't a break in the police
that one I've been in trouble. I ran away from all I've been reservoir smoking marijuana. True, and see me. I was a child. Woke up one day in a small town, why rhyme or reason to a loss team get good trying to find who I was when a bad kid just as malta, It's a grown up in europe, most of my life. Well, let me answer. least continued Her asked me and interrogate me interrogate me around the clock and so Finally, see my mind: the vets attorneys in our one of em and I get the top I raise out there. I thought, look like you got You gotta stop, as you guys got a vile something I'll make em start. They won't stop talking I've got a lawyer. I knew enough at that point that, now? What you about your right, the council the investigations have to start. The police are no longer allowed to talk to you just in I told him everything I knew
I told him repeatedly. I wasn't I knew I'd better private. Now I did not murder. No, I don't know anything about them are and they would not listen to me. So that's when I eyes I pay I got scared. I told my lawyers you the to file something these people. Wouldn't stop man. I'm scared to death, they're gonna say I said something didn't. Please. By comes up so we did What is something hearing examining draw a dinner the examining trial, which is the they have enough evidence the bind you or for a grand jury determination at the end of it. judge cologne, I think was the was a judge or it might have been called one of the two but my lawyer, the record, shows how the motion injunction, claiming that the smith guarded could turn his office and the totter police department violating my civil rights because I did vote by right. The count. when they were continuing to interrogate me Hence my will, as others I said: well, that's happiness.
certainly wrong our mind. The prosecutors and the police driver that very much The gas involved is right, the council, so I go back up where's the next day, another all henry bought hamburger from water berger and tell me about robert haunt cook. You don't say All the gods are next time. I see my lawyers screen. I I'm frantic. I tell him again, please make it stop. Please make it stop, is illegal bag downstairs thompson, the judge, cologne or code can play is the same thing: this joint says: well, that's go on? There's nothing I can do about it. Talk to the prosecutor, so I went on until. Finally, I just you know what reviews the talk and they could scare me threat. Man say those beat me up her whatever I just wooden box. a job had enough, though I would refuse at all, and I stopped coming by law.
We're supposed to leave you alone, and there is absolutely no repercussion or accountability for that right and that's what makes this Robert Wickham reserve deputy so called. Can elevator convention story such horrendous. He thought, oh shit, because here I am fighting my innocence from his dark. Solitary confinement sail with them. Which is rats, mildly occupants. Besides me, from a whole the wall and do everything I can hold on. I won't talk to the trust Yes, I know those How they are. I reply alive and so now I'm forced to go to trial. I am forced to cover placements wars, to come up to myself, put me in handcuffs and take me to court as this reserve deputy guy, his name and heat he makes up the story. Twenty
years later. Fifteen years later it comes out when I get, case reverse on appeal is when it finally comes out. He says I say to him it was wrong. Elevator is taken me to jury selection. He says look up at him and say exactly this: do you think I did it he has sworn statement says. I don't know it's for a jury to design Suppose I suppose they said well, I did it. don't give a shit what they do to me. And then the elevator opens, and he takes me to the advance table and takes the handcuffs off and puts at the table how about a guy at containers innocence from the moment he was arrested with the police so putting the ends, functions and all that into the record before the judge, what have been important but no attorney brad did that, so you may lab and think carried come on. Nobody believed that guy, shit they sent me back. The death row and ninety bore
Mr Herman and paula, rudolf, saying no us changed my mind. I I had time to Think about it! It's jericho, it I saw its not days, may feel so another. Edna jury sent me back today. Throw again and then and in July, two thousand and sixteen the judge role against me on actual innocence, citing Robert Wickham conversion story. So you can laugh all you want, you were the only one laughing is them because I'm sick, your buried in a manassa bull shit because of it I mean every Every step of the way the prosecutor is getting evidence put in your defence attorney is objecting, but there are being overruled, and then your defence is trying to bring in character wooden as for you, there trying to bring in evidence- on your side and its most of its just
being shot down and thrown out, I'm a correct through the bars have an all out. swift, counting. This is a country that is like now. Other county in america, not just of the two hundred fifty four counties and taxes county is an outlier in then the ever ever sense of the word. But at all times, including two thousand sixteen in July it's been burger king for them. Always out of their way. Judges are always friendly. The appeals courts are always friendly, so It's always been like eating it burger king and have their way they now Seventy eight, though, when you said you child Witnesses you child, characterwith, I didn't have anything. I had a five hundred dollar defence and there wasn't a single witness called because of that. And in the nineties, when I had those series of reach roused, I was still so poor. I couldn't pay attention, but I at least
organization named centre and ministries. They hired a lawyer, and I had I was gonna- have expert witnesses and character witnesses, but now the problem was going. For georgia was like the third prosecutor in the courtroom. His wooden leg where this test by when let that witness testify, in other words whatever was, it, was gently incriminating if that, quickly made up manufactured that was admissible but any evidence that carry cook didn't say that it was Anna's at r carrie cook and been back to Linda's apartment as a guest. You hit that you know that. That's in your police reports here show him that was inadmissible as a rule of law, so David showed may feel committed. Murder, which would you be here long- but that evidence it was inadmissible as a rule of law because, as a judge said, Jane mayfields not on trial, jerry max cookies,. You ve heard of eminent well. This is welcome to them.
I am seashell or the kazi nightmare, because what happened here will would you your senses, you you think you ve heard it all you you watch law and order. You you got the movies, you read books, you listen to the podcast, you making a martyr, and you think you really know how it works. Try again well, it's really really bad and an isn't the best defence showing how somebody else could have done it and not you I mean I shouldn't you shouldn't have to under the american law the burden of proof rest solely on the prostitution shoulders and that's for good reason. If, if you like you, somebody do in southern god. you oughta, have the proof and the reasons the reason the back it up. So that's the reason. So strong lead them. guys, it's it's not. That is its nowhere near that they in fact the burden of proof, is that once you're arrested in your sitting at table the prosecution
got you indicted, I'm talking about them. the grand jury that the prosecution controls conversation get anyone, determines, who gets indicted. Who gets no build that the press You shouldn't, has a tool at their disposal cod limiting emotional remedy for those you out there that that is not familiar with those league terms. Emotional levity. Basically is something the prostitution and sometimes the fence file. which is a laundry list of things that the prosecution does it wanted. To be allowed to tell the jury in and vice versa, that things and events, though, want the prosecutor prosecuted ever tell of a jury like a possible prior conviction in our a prior arrest, don't want those things going at the guilty or innocent phase of the trial. So in the process
you should motivate motion eliminate was couldn't tell the jury that dog our had admitted he had law about the fingerprint. He said that the district attorney's office god made him, do it, and so we couldn't and peaches brand new testimony in the nineties saying thank you for having put their the time of the murder and there was no evidence. It london I'd ever met each other known each other. We because you know that was an emotional lemon, adjudge granted it so we weren't allowed. The use it even though it was his own statement before you brought licensing board it. poetry, we couldn't tell the jury, admitted lying about the same thing he's now telling you is the truth. He still maintain. The threat was what the time of the murder, but what about all you're exculpatory evidence that you had going for you well there again that powerful tool called motioning levity, not much of that prosecutor was able to keep up
and what am I talking about where we get in the weeds with so many movie hearts here, but there was a book called us criminal the gains made. You ordered seven the seven pit. It's illegal law enforcement tree as it came out in nineteen forty it's all black him, what seven pictures, or all black and white. And it mirrors identically. How that delivers its found her brow cut into what once the brown one side, other side, the other by the pictures mix that a victim to real. I've seen it in the meanwhile medical examiner, one Another murder is as odd, stabbed lacerated and the Imagine a region, another pitcher reckless, another pitcher I in the head lips or something my point is, is all seven pitchers me I what was done the linda Joe Edwards, and it was proven james, maybe
I had ordered this book, even though he denied it for forty years for zero. They ever saw that book or knew anything about it, but recently, when he admitted he'd been lying about not being a apartment? He admitted he did know of that book. You did check I he did bring that book the library and that book you you've seen it you He would see that as the men's rio that that would be the shocking through the sky committed that murder. The the pictures go and one it's called is a stage device the calmer it somewhat It's a murder and tries to make it look like something else to defer the figure being pointed at him, so he would have been the obvious suspected to be getting was aggressive. Domineering is forty. Five is trying to keep his wife and finding out about the affair is twenty one year old secretary. with edward. He had all the motive the attorney in the world's murder, and he did, but we could.
Tell the jury, because I was on trial, everyone thinks will deal evidence exonerates people every day. and there was dna evidence at this crime scene yet somehow, you're still the murderer, even though the dna points to somebody else, not just the dna points to someone else, just as we had several rounds of dna testing here, the prosecution here again which what makes my story called the worse in american history: the prosecution even at the murder weapon. They took from the murder scene as sylvan here, the night, the butcher knife they took that we have to get that back them. The policeman etiquette. Who took as a souvenir they had all those things tested. The other evidence other things you evidence they cling they found, which they told the public would prove absolutely
we're going to find his dna on foot you're, not you're, gonna see and they had all that tested and none of the dna, not none of not anything, was mine, but here's the thing before was tested. We were china at least a chain of custody on the butcher knife, because this corrupt detective name any clark this as corrupt, is dug collar. He's the one took the knife linda do was, was it but using went the small town bullet I school with their population ten and he swore he bowed. He would bring her carriage justice one way or another, so even after I would agree with the whole world believe me, I'm innocent. Well, he he takes the knife and he says he's gonna, be one field testing on it! What that these, who knows the bottom line. Is we found with the two twelve appeals entire. To have that the judge,
an injunction, so they couldn't has that night until first week headed establish whereas it ban what product Has it been out of the pouch? Has it been out of the bag? Have you ever you? Ok, My remember make no mistake about it. My blood and hair was still, possession of the tyler police department for my team, seventy seven so my bed, His fear was, I could be set up here in a case of guns, so internationally, hotly contested. That's the only thing that would shouted up once you're good If found cooks, dna on the on the murder weapon, but. But anyway, what happened is though we were trying to get. First proof words bear then where's, the hair. You never responded, whereas MR cook's hair you took causes it takes the route that against the knife and bone you gotta hit is called touch dna now. Well, we were in that before the twelve horrible feels on that
junction and Michael west assistance with kindness returning told the three judge panel, as an officer of the court they're not allowed to do I'm about to tell you they do they didn't. I have it in the record, Michael west, all the talk court of appeals court on call, MR cook worldly here today, because he wants to resist any dna testing on that night because He knows it's gonna his day nay, is gonna, be on it and we're gonna. Finally, have him red handed, while guess what, when he said that to the three judge panel, twelve court of appeals, they'd, already wit, mine are back the court's back everyone's back. They already had attested it sell mark in dallas and the result came back. It was mine so they knew- and I made that argument to the twelve court of appeals they were lying. Is officers of the court
They need a morsel of innocence project. Please please. This is enough and you finally bought bother complaint for prosecutor or risk that what the ethics bore, because this is so blatantly and clear. Here's the results to date. They got back testing a night. The same night there telling them that I am only resisting it being cast it because it will prove they met the nail in my car When a new, as I said that there was data on at night there was mine, I'm innocent, and we need finally volume why and neither more, nor the innocent project of new york senior staff attorney said no carry, because the ethics committee is very pro prosecution and it get anywhere anywhere I mean anyway. I made some outlandish pulse when I fired the innocents project now also out of and over it just in, but that's because They don't know what was really gone on and in this forty five minutes
phone call on laying the basis to tell you a lot of what I've gone do, but here in that- snapshot right there I mean. That's like and someone wake me up- the innocents project of new york with a prosecutor standing before an appeals court lying about the evidence in a case in which that's all they had ever done. On the day I was arrested all his fifth nineteen. Seventy and you don't want to do a file, a motion with the judge and tell him they lied, no care because it just be wasting time and money somebody wake me up in and try to forgive me for being a nut? what no you're not a nut, but they were probably just being honest like ripped. It there's no point in doing this because it'll go nowhere. but on that issue I thinking them off. You can at least try? You can take that step that doesn't go anywhere. Fine waste
you're too. You can make the wreck. You can at least made the record because here's what happened my just in this was even Barry Scheck, nina Morrison, weren't fear of this day my hair when I sold you detective eddie clark took the now the murder weapon and oh, my hair, taken originally in june, The night is every seven from me as sylvan ears in the linda, Joe Edwards murder. Well date, the plate, the prosecution per hour motion did go back to his home. Men and retrieve the murder weapon, so it can be tested behind everyone's back but He did not every the prostitution, nor did eddie cart, ever explain What to do with my hair, so the dna reveal yielded some touch dna and it would have been mine once the Hortatory ruled against me and accepted its testing. Oh my god, just in I would finally been so frame.
no matter how innocent I was. It wasn't the matter you put that goddamned dna on that night belonging to me and its game where man, I'm so what you just said, something that struck a chord. You said that he had these pieces of evidence at his and nodded evidence was now each of them from the police. Evidence room. he had. I'm in his home is sylvan ears. He would show on the people, then why? now the david, when we found out he took its in a newspaper story. We go online type. My name up, I think, is there's motley or texas trip new brandy gresham. As this the journalists brand aggression. He taught gives it everyday real, quick he's called. He says they beat him up session and then is in the original police packet. It was sealed in the after the trial. That happen, and then and then you know we we find something.
This peculiar about that. He gets a second affidavit and which for the prosecutors- and he said No, I did some field testing on it. I did break it loose from its original seal, but I did some feel testing and damage. Since I teach law enforcement classes, use this knife for that. So you know he what he does Let me explain this bizarre is all that is in itself is lied these contradicting himself, which has never problem with them, because there's no there's no consequences, but what's in- you're saying he never explain what happened, what there with my hair. So we were all very afraid that you knows county had so much invested in in this misconduct, and so much fall out was gonna. Come from my hearing this they did. This
just squeezes you order the evidence destroy the hair found on the victims, body that wasn't mine. He ordered his torrents, so it can be tested that kind of stuff is going to come out in the hearing. That was a start. There was gonna role, judge jack, skis off the bench and a view bob runs. Podcast is yours- you know that his audiences all over that because they know how corrupt that guy two other cases in tyler, so they know who he is. He is a very corrupt. Bastard has no business. a judge he ordered. I found on Linda Joe errors body that was that the roommates was not less, it was not mine. He or That is and that's how any court came into possession of the murder weapon as a silver near analogue my hair. Because he ordered all the evidence in court cases short. That was so. I could never get back in a court, improve hours, innocent and justin. This makes you unique in this sense,
your hearing, the reasons why in so upset. The reason of ptsd is strong but superman, it has gotten to me at times with your hearing. Why? If half of what I'm saying is true in every I'm saying is true: I can back every bit of it out with a document then my god can can you understand why it, sir spain's so hard on me. Absolutely you then, doing not only with the mental stress of people lying fabricating and a system, acting them up with their lies, but you ve also dealt with all the physical and just a horrific torture. You went through in prison check just consider this work, for example, when setting playing dominoes in the day room on death row with someone and
Is a mexican guy walk up behind him? Take away the way glued on up a toothbrush adjust slice. Louis, I order adjust the drownded in blood and then for by mexicans. got around me and say turn your badge ass around then on. You turn around the cops, the guards common air and at what happened here, the razor blades on the floor and everyone space in the wall. in no way we know is that no evil. You cannot say a word because you don't know what living in horror and fear is like was again There is actually run the brazen I've got a video. And always I had this videos, because the prisoner the prison, guards thought I was dead there. It was in
possible to be alive because one of the guards running to the scene, it was dark. It was late at about three in the morning slipped and fell in the blood that was all the way down at the front door and a stream when I shined the flashlight myself, they were convinced I was dead, so they called corner and the warden, which has to be notified any murders or suicides for death row, so I videotaped it. I mean ever seen so much blood human rights watch called called me. The most brutalize man in the history of the american prisons system organization that deals with the experts on rape and american prison cod stop prisoner right. They wrote a book on stop prisoner rape, they test before the Senate legislate. They said that I was the worst case of go abuse and any horrible story than ever heard. I've, just as nothing
you could ever tell me good compared to what I've got Do I have walked a minefield. I walked I ran the gauntlet are the most horrific p. Well, you could ever imagine we're not talking about human beings that me we're talking about monsters, we're talking about real monsters, the p Will that you led the line on at night for because, if there is that's your god! and you're doing everything you can to stay alive for as long as you can. As you know, when death comes it's giving you back them and I'm gonna lead. As long as I can I thought that you are brutalized because you wouldn't fight back you, wouldn't you know you if you did and you're now a criminal, your now the monster that We want to call on you now and then in my old lawyers, not not standing up in hiding bore me. That's the end.
Look you hear the innocent project of new york or the illnesses project you hear those that you involve those names and, in any event, you and oh, my god, you ve, just you just go- out to them. Ass I mean they are. The go to organization are hard to get to know you take the cases No, they can wind, it's so expensive. You get the innocents project. Moniker on your case, your halfway there because they have such there such a great organization, so much money. In all that. So here I am the evidence it got me back in the court see so when I ottawa on board. I was the paralegal I was apparent For my own case and those like one of the others. Like one of the lawyers, they told me that they said I was a small is any lawyer they ever worked with, and so I was like working as my own lawyer to guide and talked about this no, I posted I went a little
The reservation I fired on you know, but I loved the innocents project yeah. I did one razors barbarians I start in this broadway play called the exonerated with with Alice actors in This is why go with theater? I know the people I'm on screen watching movies. In no matter who you say it is I've ever met him in some way, bumped into a moving part of a major played me or something. So I thought mrs project, was the holy grail. I believed in them. I I fought for my encourage my friends. The dome to a long before they were ever. My lord and so the trust, was unbelievable em too We start crying right now because I feel so betrayed and it's not about what you said earlier on? We weren't on the record about the. Why check mark that that cold start true,
It's true is true is true, but just in I I I I knew it prostitution was gonna. U These are the brutal, are in prison against me, hurting myself at times they get move so well. like it or not. Even I have difficulty discussing it with men in all, I knew I was gonna have to discuss this with them. the male lawyers in my case, because the prosecutions gonna try to use it against me again. So I went there. I told them what had happened to me and showed in the dark, you mean. Taking of it showed him the things carved on my but told them what it was like after removing my penis, while with what it was like with the rest, The present I got to be known all over the present system as the punk who blank lank lincoln. Me and all the warm I'm losing my family one after another, my brother's murder, molly brothers murdered my dad dies
Answer my mother methods. Mentally ill. She abandoned me, so I'm going to the worse, Madness that anyway, had ever imagined less. They walked it and I'm taking this all today this is project crawling up to their desk and setting it on her desk out of breath and saying help me help me, don't because when you help me when you help me with this story, you're gonna help so many other people there. Just like me. They just don't have what I want to be their voice to help me. Help me get these people me they ignored. Yes, yes, they ignored me. They did it their way settled for deal behind my back after being ordered as the client not to continue communicate with men being ominous smith, county dusk, attorney's office man, just in it crazy. What what I went through
and nobody knows nobody those everyone just judgment carry thus illnesses I believe in him. Why do you follow them? you're putting on down here. I can't be your friend anymore. I just in I couldn't tell him all. This parliament was still china's day loyal, his day, loyal when they were fighting. For your exoneration, they weren't fighting for accountability of the system, exactly you got it and you got it and you felt betrayed because one they didn't do it. You were asking them to do If they're, if you're their client, they should do what you're telling them it's like therein business for an exaggeration, entered, get thou, check, mark and say hey one more one more down in your thoughts. There's more to go, but Firstly, this story. Let me pay why, when I say especially the story, I I built author, an international reputation on them on the death penalty,
I spoke with the barclay sooner. Forty thousand people scissors random, introduce me when it comes speaking for those who can't speak for themselves, I am a warrior. I mean I'm not scared of nothing or nobody in the matter. You make me the more eloquent I can become it's just who I am fighting for my life from death row. So yeah I became really well known. I had a great reputation with the media, all being honest and straightforward in you know, not engaging in hyperbole. Just you know, being a kind, poor guy with a hell of a story, so they want. my eyes on racial on our website. So bad he wasn't it dry minutes afterwards, and I heard it was on this project please carry scope and not there. Now, if you love, because I fired him. I said that the you're not gonna benefit from my suffer because you prolonged it- you weren't partners
solution. You're part of the problem here you're far, the very this them on trying to change or I'm willing to die for the change. So take my stuff. Down, or also you I'll, find the loi represent myself, but are also you take my name down. You're not allowed to use me. You're fired now, I don't want to be on your website and I did entered my. On their website, but but you still feel that you a great job for a lot of people, it just your interaction, your relationship with them was not about you. had all well, I wouldn't go that, while without I would go as far as I can, I should shut up and leave it like you, so you so politely and- and in the interests of neutrality, sad butter. I will carry you know, I I I hell I like it is even when I heard so, I would say I can appreciate
the souls who lot whose wise they've merits the godson hapless people prison. President shouldn't have been there that were innocent. I respect that what I now know. The new york times call me the most famous her, an ever exotic, the most famous exonerate history, the american legal system. If that's true, I took this case. They took this case and did that to it that to me, despite being that, guy a lawyer, one of the team, and did this to me so I have to say: I was locked up akard I could get in car. drive to their office? I could pick up the phone make em talk to me on death row didn't have a car and certainly never phone. I had the one and I do not know if I was that invisible as a famous client
can you imagine how invisible those poor people are that they represent, because they don't see the point? and just- and I say this live and don't think I'm saying it easily cause, I know I'm being recorded, but you know what I'm ok I like it is eroded eyes like they go because it's true, they don't see the human being They see you as a number of docket number and up so for their website. If they went donations, donations, money, money, money, money, keep the train going, keep them, you're going, that's a hard thing to say by saying all alone, I'm saying the innocents project of new york and taxes, I'm referring to on that I'm not telling everyone as to the orders satellite organisations into the you know. Greece, like that, just my experience with the ones that I worked with these two. they don't see the persons who I wonder, how much so
bring buying prison walls, someone was there with, because he has had to be willing to say what, if we could do. I have no hope, I have no money. I have no way to ever get out of this nightmare, so whatever you do, if you can get me out goddamn just I love you, and so you give it to him, but see this case was different. I I want Put together this case, I worked so hard. I alive. I got myself back in the court under the harshest of a new rules that allow someone convicted. They go back in the core claiming innocence, and I did that and I got it and I got these used to help me and I was willing to die I let me make this clear to use you understand when told them. No, no,
deals. I don't give a shit about exonerates me and lab lab. I know deals, I'm not going out the back door, the legal system anymore. I want to walk through the front door, I'm innocent, and so I told them that clearly in and decisively unequivocally absolutely there would be no deal in this case and that I was willing to die for this and they said to me carry I know what you're doing you get the prosecution agreed and get a fair trial. That's a lie, exoneration in america and you'll be free. You that's enough, What do you want to carry out what you wanted, then you want to be Saudi arabia cause. You can't pick your son of school. You can't go in a grocery store around women, because I was at that guy. Nobody did not. Why not say whether smokers fire and just live with having to.
Never a treadmill of suffering. It there's no one at all, but you're always running you always running, and I wanted real free. And I told them you wanna do justice. If you, if you go to court, you could lose here's what I told him just and I said, I would rather go to court the hearing and let this guy screw me and do the same. I rather losing courtroom seeking justice on my feet, then take a deal a walk out on my knees. I've lived fruit for forty years. Why not? What I wanted agree to a lie that they did nothing wrong. Just so I can be exonerated. I rather lose and I stand on they stared at me and went silent. Listen what as it yet Oh I'm warning you as the client. No more meetings with the DA's office know there will be.
Deal in this case, because I'm willing to lose. If I go to a hearing and we lose, I said- This is it. This is guaranteed. Carry the prosecution will agree to me, We line above annually, they got you'll be exonerates illegal exhilaration, you had a golden ticket for total exoneration freedom right there and I did and plus there's, no doubt I would have one actual innocence to buy. Instead, I took the golden ticket. Looked at it. And after losing doorway only brother, my mom, my dad everyone. I said you know I carry open heart surgery later. You know, therefore, suicide attempts. You can't give up its work some things are worth dying for and I look I need a morrison's eyes and very shack, and I said- and this is one of them, though, no deal, and I turned it down and I paid the ultimate price because
by firing them, I wasn't ready for the joy, verse, actual innocence hearing I disputed, Robert Wickham, you know some of what we already just talk about. The judge said that the other it showing guilt, rabbit wickham outweigh the evidence from showing innocence, which It's so bizarre! I don't even want to address that part, but I knew I knew just I was given up- goes back to that they were talking about. I made a decision a consciousness. Decision to do whatever it took the brain, truth out with me. Tell this story whether would help kids adults. People in the legal system just would be a reason. The chains what's broken I'd be a voice, for I gave up everything everything to be here? as I wanted was a lawyer that we fight for me and they didn't.
In their minds. They might have thought they were fighting for exoneration, but that's not again. That's not what you wanted in and you are not willing to be a martyr for your cause and they weren't willing the martyrs themselves. They weren't willing to follow you down. That path will be, Oh misunderstand: you: they ain't round. I think people think that the exoneration of you was the most important point when you wanted these people held accountable for what they have done to you and due to others, exactly and nobody seemed to everyone miss that point. No one hair desert me when you can't you can't boxes, stem the system continues on and it does not have time for air correction Yes, it doesn't look just in here Something else see that you need to you need to know. because it's a mac microphones
raw lawyers. You know that the cap as being very eloquent and decide where there was an emails or directly with them. Why would be no idea why I wanted them to stop meeting with the days office and they would come back over and always, if I'd, never told him. I'm gonna tell you as if it was there. explain to a dead, still revert to the sea casuistry and go right back to it with say to me jerry. You read up with anger for revenge You know that you be It's all raise the best revenge of all. They gotta, they gotta admit you are never given a fair trial. Jerry let go the anger and I would say this back I'd said jerry nina you're, not getting it shit you're, not getting it might do. This is not ribands it is about it. Billy, but it's not about anger in I'm giving hard unrepentant are no it's about the place
glascock or misconduct, accountability and the false evidence that it created. The judges considering on actual innocence, that's cage is I'm not looking for revenge, but Evidence that was created was false, its due to lay some prosecutor misconduct. If you take this deal, they get off the hook. For that and I had the great and never mention it, and we can't even tell the judge about it and in him deciding actual when, as is going to sign an agreement and what you have agreed not to allow those subjects to be brought to the judge that it's over with this agreement, I really was you know it's it's odd, it's odd how much I connect with you, the things that you know the last few days talking or taxing just. Why I get a quick connection with you. I usually don't get with guys. You know, but anyway, you're you're, you're I was willing Debbie martyred. Ah, I was willing, they say. Gotta hearing and you lose,
judge. Maize may say that your cause you're actually guilty. Now, carry that really argue that destroy your career with kids. I You ve done everything you built up to now could meet joy over that and I thought how not block is out even swanny they're they're, trying to blackmail me to take an ideal, but in the end and I said this storm- you know what that's what happens, then that's what happens but I'd rather. Walk. It have a hearing and have all this evidence of what they ve done to me. based on homosexuality. I read all this before them out expose again, not just for me, but how many thousands of people have? They died? in some cases dead, because dead people can't tell their stories to me I carry a burden and my heart. The d, the story of the dead to some of the executions has happened, some other
that the homosexual murders, as happened entirely just because someone was gay them caught the ongoing this conduct? I mean Someone has to stand up to and not just go along the illnesses project. the go along and I stand up to it so they did it Michael Morton's case, but they wouldn't Oh, my god, oh no baby not agree with this, but it reminds me of that. The vietnamese buddhist monk who set himself on fire to make a statement and people say well now, you're give oft yourself now you're gone now your voice is not being heard, but You are willing to go to that level of pretty much self destruction approve your point and I will tell you right now. I absolutely understand. Why fired your lawyers I slowly understand why you felt that way, because you ve gone to relay leaves a lot to me, because I've been along with that, except for my wife, she's, the only one that knows this
suffering the pay. Ok, be real that the tears now I've cried I've. I've heard so barely being judged and abused by people on facebook in other places, because eight like I made the wrong decision and injustice they don't know have one I know did they think I'm just some for kitten who luckily, stumbled his way out of prison, I'm serious whether this is. Are you go it's just a truth. I thought my way The present one of my super lawyers who represented me twice, would tell you this is not the story. The taxes legal system running, I like the cavalry saving, carry good. The story here is how carry cook saved himself from all of us now, just say it name as these all you get some music. Harris counting lawyer, let my best friend now you our very close. ok kids are already asking what's for dinner, but
breaking news empty fridge. That's ok! I'll! Instead cart that's morgana asparagus in some farm, fresh chicken, easy way is the old vegetarian this week, or was it gluten free gluten? Free pasta covered either way card it and finally, Some vegetarian gluten free olives for my well earned cocktail when our family shopping list as more footnotes than groceries the world is your cart visit in the car. Com or download the app and get free. Livery on your first order, offer valid for at a time minimum order, ten dollars deliveries to availability, additional term supply. I was trying to verbal eyes. What I felt with some of the worst grievances of justice against you and I think it was your wife who cut in and said it's when carry was at its lowest when he mutilated himself in prison and when the press,
accusers turned around use that against him in his case, the action the show violence the show body is dangerous. This has proven its art, the horror that they have put upon. You has driven you too pretty much madness, and then they use your madness against you and I thought thou. there again, the van, are you single? What we're going out to get get married man, you're freaking me out. Just then I mean man. How do you know that you got me you you get me really sorry, that's out of figure out now, you're very funny, last I live in a big it. Oh my god, This guy is really hitting on me on the air, no not happening yeah. Well, it's it's it's true, though. What you just said, so that's weird that you would know to say that, because There was media all around the world. I don't get that kind of death, and in my situation you know you must
have a person, I didn't have to go, spend time in jail or prison or be totally wronged. somebody or the system to be able to see things. Clearly, that's yeah, I guess my gift or my curse, whatever you want to call it. No, no! It's it's it's! It's! It's a gift! It's a gift! Yup That's It means a lot to me because I did precise alive in people I know that story and I did give up a lot in prison to make the first half the survive. The first half, then I gave up more to survive. The second half it was always be given up in Those around me never having to give up anything. including my lawyers and you know, and then probably shouldn t this. What Well, here I was so broke. I couldn't even pay attention surviving no health insurance surviving off speaking.
Once project is making me get people to finance my case tastes, and here they always multi billion dollar corporation, and there was oh greedy, that they were me to get people to find. It's my case all you do. A lot of celebrities carries it. They'll donate rays money for that, again. This export get this day right hasn't. Do they do that, and I did do that, but an hour ass for return was that they not try to add that person to their donors lives. That was my brain. That was something personal to this case, but did they listen? nice thing and other they're invitations that I gotta say come join the annexes project data. Dang in new york. While we, you know, we have fourteen innocent risotto, he is going to come up there and and feel comfortable to donate. If you want to, and that's the thing I told him not to do because I need my the elder wet before I could say the world you're asking them
for a favor and its disrespectful for you to expose them to all this publicity or whatever. Exactly I get it, I'd been familiar with you, you know in the past ass. I knew who you were, but it wasn't intel bob rough was covering your case and then when you fired the innocents project that I knew you were young at him and adapt lloyd. I read up on it now. I looked at the reasons why in Much as I am a supporter of the innocents project as much as I love that they exist, I told agreed with everything you did like. I would probably done something well, let me say eyes. I I need here tat man, I've taken up quite a beating interest long as I am and all that I can have the sense it there is a lot of a child to because prison being so brutal, is like that imprisoned. It didn't teach me
Had I hated it show me the importance of love. It taught me how to love in belarus in our very that's what made me so. Pardon me- I'm a very carrying solve spoken, sensitive person and at all times I was at way with the innocence project, because I was being me about. I was in a place where I could trust and be me, and while I just felt like so invisible and it hurt especially the results? I fired my lawyers, a couple of what light a week before the actual, when the critical actual necessary and and here's what the public does it now and is being heard for the very first time. Well you know just an I did come around as much as I like them is the part that are there same system that I'm trying to revolt against and fix, but you know I came to my senses.
about a week later day before a couple days before the actual innocent syrian. Eliza lifers wasn't a day and I send emails. I send emails to bury shack. I send emails to are needed, so the gary edition, in which I said I know I can't take back what I said: I'm not caught him. I can't do apologizing could I do mean what I said, but having said that, it's a terrible, stay. What I've done I've left myself viable were. The judge could rule against men I have a career with or with with cancer. Operations in it. They take what a judges that is the truth I could beat my career could be damages all. I got I can lose that had the loser, though, with the lisa and collateral damage possible, because I brought up so myself by going back into court. Believe me, I could. I gotta make the system change and see. The truth is, however, that my
forty years of publicity in writing by saying book that they would. It would make the difference so I forgot to say well, as I suggest in view went crawling back to the innocents outside our crawley I want crawled, back to them begging them. They help me take me back don't bother motion to withdraw because I won't have any lawyer and there's no time. The judge won't give a postponement. He was already at the statutory deadline on a hundred eighty days, he had had the case dawn by statute, and he you gonna postpone it? Are you try to get other postponements like a work on their other cases, which was an The problem always had with them, but it has denied it, at a hundred eighty days and he wasn't gonna postponed that july. First, they anyway, so I beg them not to withdraw,
all that I I was going to need them to have any chance on actual innocence is important to me. Wasn't about the money it was about that declaration and what I could the job I could get in texas. The things I could do with with having been fully completely clear like that said, and for the first, I'm remembering it on a par with you. I was in a body as for a while, stay there and then hear you come on facebook, hey gotta, talk to you now that the bright over my body count read it all over again, ripen that a day off, they said no will carry. We can't Gary's already followed emotion to withdraw the judge ground and it and the judge all oh granted carry you know. You said you want to represent yourself, the judge granted so there are some silver lining through your situation and I'm gone I'm sorry guys are you kidding me? Are you fucking kidding me
everyone knows that the person represents themselves have in a court of law, is a fool for climate and not even me is. Even I know that, though I could not represent my I needed them to come back. They had all the case. I knew all the stopping the experts goddamn. I go with guy named mark bennett we met, don't know until I met him the night before the hearing, he only had a case for a week and he was battling with so much met. Bingham prosecutor on police condo. He couldn't focus on the case so that stay. He goes in the courtroom. Judge all can order court cause one day Some is over. There was something I order in case they had taxes governmental, this is why I am one of those Eric was ended. That's right! You want to start the proceeding. Yes, are you honor? He looked back at me and he says, honour. This is a story about love and betrayal and in his
to have an hour he uses, maybe fifteen twenty minutes. Mosen seeds is time and the prosecution gets up their key dollar high hagen. There was a special prosecutor. Usually when you hear special prosecutor, it's it's the prosecution has been accused of wrong doing and you have to go outside the aid soon get another's. What's got special prosecutor. Well, in my case- Howdy defines all the rules they didn't have won, but they had three special prosecutor. In my case, all designed to help them in there was a simple matter in this case if they lost so here here: but with all that- and he tells the judge that after twenty five minute love him Trail tirade that surely this law love and betrayal case gives the court reasonable doubt about the guilt of the accused and
I'm writing notes, I'm doing hanged hand signals. I would if I would add a big later. I would start a small fire and made smoke signals anything it took to get this lawyers. Cancer because I'm trying to tell him No, no, no, that's the legal! standard breast, witnesses- isn't guilt beyond reasonable doubt its by clear. Compelling evidence or as a major difference under the statute compelling you base there Jesus Christ, representing you and swearing attesting at the person, is actually edison before the court will agree. The others nanda do. Basically I shall be put into the bids tables accused of a crime and the jury, it has to have a reasonable doubt whether or not you're guilty big difference, and so that's how that went, and you know and you are sad. I must I sound completely insane. Just tell me the truth. Now, as I thought I was better off by though I was doing better when it is, but evidently I just one
go into well. There you find in this the hearing Of course, you get slaughtered and tat. It sucks to hand if hindsight, twenty twenty would you have gone back and done anything differently? Would you ve not fired them? Would you ve gone before with an exaggeration and actual innocence? Ah This is so new. This is so new that I have prepared myself for that public question yet cause one quarter: appeals rules. yeah, one way or another on on this reform hobby. Any time now I'm sure some one in the media is going to ask me that question either, no matter how it goes, I have good practice and yet ways, spare me thing about it. How take a moment the art is a dichotomy and I'll. Tell you I'll tell you want On the one hand, it is painful to say- because I know it's true I know they are never shut
beyond a shadow of a doubt had I not fire as an innocence, project of new york and taxes. I would one the actual innocence hearing, because even if the judge ruled against me like he did his This is for his ruling one events so amazing, aided so ready, to ashes by the truth the record. The fact that the court of appeals would have in this case, what they did in the san antonio for world again the judge eroded As for women were actually edison about crime, the courtroom recently we have four months ago fathom actually innocent against the lower courts willing san Antonio as they did documentary about him called return. Asylum, interesting story, their innocence so because it's almost killed, it had. Another prosecution will be very glad to hear that on his part castle,
put me in the ground breaking more bring them some more now that I've always been motion- or I am always wanted- do the right thing and stand up for for the principle of it. I think would have shut my mouth and smarter by telling the truth story in the documentary. Like you know, when he stood up and said the maybe I was basically the goes there every prosecutors in taxes our told that what bullshit that was in the documentary. But then, though I carry thanks is this, and this is what caused me to fire. and here I agree with the latter, not the former and ass this I knew if I let them go go along with it. Even now they can me silent, walk out the courtroom here as well the pilot exonerate. I'm supposed to be able to raise hey in celebration. and then Matt Michael Morton as their he's china whole my own up. Armor the photograph with the media, saying
it's relaxed and I says, project nina Moreno. Take your arm that you know Michael know, can't take that picture with him, no, because they had this deal with the prosecutors. If they wouldn't expose them, they would make a big deal out. we being exonerated and that carry that make sure shut jerry down and make it not allow him to make any damage MR com. I will be allowed to speak so, on the one hand, I suppose, be exonerated, but yet I wasn't allowed to walk out, isn't exonerated person because they said we still me Matt big, I'm on the actual illnesses. Maybe he won't quota quote fight his heart. If you not magazine, that's it bullshit offers any lawyer. Listen you right now, listen us they're, gonna break out I mean they're, not gonna, believe a lawyer could actually take. Someone is basically what I haven't say that to them and not. Allow me to act exonerated, because they're holding out with this secret relationship. They form with the DA's office to hold out for actual this is a lesson, a lesser fight. That's one thing! On the other, I think I wanna steel.
Fired on, and the reason I would have is because I saw it they had warmed a relationship we met. They won't to share the emails with me of ask them as the client I'm entitled to the email. As you and mapping on exchanges, leading up to making a steel, and I say to me he says to me: carry these personal between me and that being on, and I don't have the shadows you or your lawyer after listening and this right now and you hear that you're going what bullshit that is yeah, you think you have to do with me, representing me as an attack my authority, especially him negotiating with the prosecutor meetings and emails, I'm entitled. That as the attorney he cannot will hold out for me. So the point is: if I built up so much distress whether they just want an exaggeration, whatever their motive was I'll, never know, but I built up so much this trial,
That's the only way. I could protect myself and my story and I hope the people it would mean two would be the fire them in and take the loss show that it really wasn't about the money show that it really was about the truth when Linda Joe Edward and carry max cook the two victims in his case and they are still would have done it. I still would have taken the loss but I think I would have one I think, even at the court, the judge would judge carter. What role against me. The coroner appeals, would have done a similar thing, in San Antonio for the court. What have declared be actually answered? but now I think I lose- I I think I lose on both counts, so you you'd still want to make the statement of walking away from this cause. I'm not going to make a deal that puts that. Doesn't that allows prosecutors to walk away like as if they did nothing wrong unscathed. Yeah. Is it nothing like that was the deal they may that they basically
the walk away. They did nothing wrong, the police did it all is what they're saying that please don't do all alive, but a prosecution a too, and I beer without both up and working hand in hand to violate my civil rights using homer sexuality, their prejudice against the do it. So what? What is your status now right now we're on the records gone. The judge, the judge me what's cod, are piling up, fact, conclusions of law and all that goes up to the texas court of criminal appeals on on a mandatory appeal. There there should be no oral arguments should be nothing else file. The cases closed, its ending the quarter, feels ratifying the deal, the deal That, then, is this project may dropped all the allegations judged. Skiing idi clark many clark than I've
frame? Got jailhouse confessions, the just all of it dropped all those claims in exchange for Matt. And the prosecution, agreeing that James mayfield did in fact commit perch he was a material witness in the outcome. the trial would have been different. I would have been acquitted. All allegations were dropped. That may be did in fact line, and I would have a different outcome would have appeal appeared. If you had the bends alive, we couldn't tell you they took they struck out the part where the prosecution neue was lie and was there witness now they wouldn't agreed that so we'd already proven we always lie. Did he interview I allude to. He gave it to them. greater resolve, as in my attorneys, they all went to use in taxes the month before maybe I'm arranged it bought files, a woman, turn general. I taxes, bar association, pressed
it. Ain't representing for over forty years is biggest crook as icon, there's no more. cook in a lawyer than him may feel was granted immunity for the murder of the dough edwards and he confessed that that he did have the book. The sexual martyr and that he lied about not being in the apartment that he had in fact been in an apartment and but he walked, he walked as close to the edge confession. get because according to jerry addition, he said looking at his word, I was sitting right beside him. I was gonna my wife. This is the codes May I say I'm asleep or not. I try to use his words. imagine that recreate this. He said he looked at my lawyer, Gary addition said She was gonna, follow me they use and they ruined me. That's a closer. He gets to confessing, but here's the thing that was
recorded stenographer, invention and mission didn't they didn't need to make an agreement on that ground five into an end. Not wipe out everything else just in we are, that was already clear. He wasn't material material witness. It was already clear that that the only reason the jury convicted me because he claims he didn't have sex with her and he didn't. She was like a daughter. I mean why that was my point we didn't need to make ground agreed aground by, but if the corridor, agrees as it does just in it removes the conviction, dismiss the indictment, nor does it dropped the charges. So could have a murderer indictment lingering over me and pep prefer and other wars. Asses It was where I'm at before I even went back into court and got exonerated, because I still can't fill out a job application. I still can't get a rent, a hotel. I still can't get an apartment because I can't pass it back
because you're not technically a twice convicted sex offender and murderer right now. We're yes exactly. I don't see it if the court, doesn't it they do ratified. All going to be doing is going out conviction now, there's something else I can do and finally stand up, and say it loudly for the world to know they could all So, like the san antonio for case they did, they could say We disagree with the jobs we find that carry myself is actually us, and here is why, but you know they got grandma, it's easy, its quick. There are the pudding work into there. Aren't the red the thousands of pages of transcripts, I can just say, yeah well, this is already a done deal. All you, gotta do is say yeah and all that does is reverse. Conviction. Does it get me to actual innocence and hey? You know they said they would drop it charges and dismiss the indictment of Amelia upon the coroner appeals- really,
ratifying the agreement as what they said, the lawyers, but if he does it goodies, so pissed off at me, mad big hates me in all of smith, county prosecutors. Hate me in the police hate me because I have them alive in the world's media. S reason no such thing as bob robin and solomon in mid county justice, corruption, cap of the world. I did that There's a spotlight, there's a mine, magnifying glass, there they're getting all this unwanted attention because they had an they hate me or Matt. Being on how's awake and hurt me how well a lift I he may try to retry began seriously another seriously convention story somewhere. That's why I'm so scared its eyes with county jail all over again. I'm here to talk to anybody. I'm scared. answer anybody on facebook. Is it a planet? I mean look, it's true fuckin paranoid now told them
blame you in the slightest I've. I know you do I can tell you get it, that's why I'm really like it, and you man, I mean. I feel I feel you are getting it and that makes my job telling the truth as a purveyor of truth to get it out, because if I got to build too much and explain too much, I keep losing the point. So I guess my final question to you would be: what can the public do for you to help you? While you know that's, that's a good question. Johnston said Send me a friend request on facebook. You know post your support, because my other friends that are there have kind of drifted off. They don't really get it. You know you know, saving the facebook, but most of the what right the media right, the austrian Travis county media, any big publications, you know, carry max cook Be exonerated, just like the san antonio for because, where
similar is that the court, the lower court, the district judge, denied their actual innocence in a core group feels overruled. It is the first time in history, a core colonel pails ever did that, so it would help if people would know that case and say carry max cooked should be declared actually innocent. Just like this tony for and how right right, the right to edit Oreo online posts, things like the readers right, you don't tweet it come on, has hashtag. I didn't do it anything they can do, because what matters to me it makes me feel not so long justin. think that, on the one hand I had this machinery of this, walker row army of fighters, and I haven't you think I had this- this up, media pr farm. I don't You think I have a lawyer who does all this for me, I don't. I'm currently is unrepresented as you can get I have nobody, but just me
I am standing here at ted square man standing in front of a tank. Refusing the boy image. My stupid or suicidal, maybe a little bit above, but I won't give up and all the support and the world would help me by pulsing riding things to the media in texas, not just and genuine no taxes, targeted people watching the quarter of appeals. In this case, and that's eight, because when that all went down, you had a lot of people, leave you in the dark and a lot of people walk away and cloning, my long time along time, brand Jim Mccluskey S, interior ministries, organization, it they'll find. As my case, he thought I thought I was being still an impulsive fiery nam? Disagree with me, but he didn't know the story he didn't know what But you know here it is to just see what today about this people going to present a vicious face. It
do they come from broken homes or the one thing they have in common while we're all broke, we all come from just lower income families, because that's how we get the present. You know that we have no represented You were just seen as a dock. At number and whether you black white, yellow around the color of injustice and america's green. The cholera money What does it matter? What what color you are? Some people disagree with that, but I just We would then, because I lived in- I know the color of justice in america is green. That's how I got the prison in so many other people there, like me, and people and is project of new york. As is guilty of this, all organizations are, I'm sure everybody is. They judge you because you're, not a millionaire you're, not you're, not amend as brothers with other millions. It killed their parents in ireland you got Gloria what's up,
It was your lawyer, ret red, read our whatever name. Isn't you know you're just a dirt poor seen from this source of america and europe are treated like dad you're, giving me a public defender than give a shit about you just want to get through to the next case they being paid so little and the situation in the bill of rights where this is biodegradable toy paper. It only matters if have money to make it work. That's what activates the bill of rights and the constitution money. When you don't have it it's on activated in you, get rode over like a steam engine, tenements were take, but what happened is I mean myself. Somebody I took us. I took something for nothing and made made myself some spokespeople. In a a fighter a warrior I still was invisible, because people go to prison, aren't supposed to be smart. They're not supposed to be fighters are not supposed to they're supposed to just be thankful and grateful
this lawyers represent a you, and I was all those things purse, but they want. Ah, my boys being taken away again the bottom line is I'm not supposed to be, hu, I am, but I am and there's a lot of people like me the problem as a system so broken it. Does it see em? Why does our own lawyers don't see him? So what I'm saying is that it would help to have people support made it listen to this podcast here this story and think that you know this isn't just carried. Look. I wonder in mice or in my county here you don't have to be black, america be shot and wrongly convicted decide to be poor or are the same color on death oh black, white, yellow brown, and that clearly coding man, you know trying to use polite lay words until you like it is because that's the real
ruth and it hurts. But that is the that's his does. It hurts? It hurts a hurts so much that these days, with consequences. I've had open heart surgery. I'm really really really taken a beating here on a really bad. I suffer from her renders ptsd that's a whole you climb out of it all I want is for the matter. I want people care I I'm so alone. I don't have any family. I want using for the person. I am what I've gone through what I've tried to do for other people are what I its standing up to these this corporate organization or smith. County he's. Gonna teach, my son there good can I believe, all this they show. That is what you can you find your voice, you can stand up and you can win teaching us. in principle there. But apart from that, I thought I would matter to the rest of the people.
States. You know I thought I could make a difference. God knows I struggled to do that. It would be that difference but I wanted to be in the world. Was it worth it? Should I take him I family through Should I listen to what my friends told me? let it go carolina go you can't win you can't when I'm not gonna win, ignored, everybody not out of a sense of nurses or not out of a sense of thinking I was right, is no. I and because I thought the truth will just not matter to me. What would better to a lot of other people, like me and I have all the support and the support will become a Thirdly- and I never be alone again- or god- damned and work out like that, but you did make a statement and I think an idea lives on that's what you did do. Thank you just and I'm here of uniting our. I thank you. So much man I buy, palestine. Is it just about banks and treadmills? It's a team of instructors, ready to motivate you twenty four seven with politics
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Transcript generated on 2022-10-16.