« The Generation Why Podcast

Laurie Bembenek - 153

2015-11-02
May 28, 1981. Milwaukee, Wisconsin. A woman is discovered bound, gagged, & shot. Her two sons were home with her and see a person fleeing the scene. The woman's ex-husband, a police officer, makes for a good suspect until he comes up with an alibi. A neighbor reports a plumbing issue and a wig is retrieved. The investigation would then focus on his new wife. Suspected of wearing a wig during the crime, they also decided that she must have used her husband's gun as well as a key that he had which would let her gain entry. The motive? Anger over alimony that her husband was having to pay the victim. A trial would end in a guilty verdict. Was she really guilty of this crime? Or was she wrongfully convicted? A true crime episode. See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.
This is an unofficial transcript meant for reference. Accuracy is not guaranteed.
I do in tonight her doing great just in how about I'm doing good some time ago, We had told the listeners that we would have apps available for andrew lloyd for apple, for windows, phones and were very happy to announce that we now have an app in the app store. So if you have an iphone or an ipad. You can get the generation why podcast app now so check it out? Let us know what you think
I think we need to mention what our website is in our shops, because people seem to ask us a lot and I thought of his brow: easy to figure out at its the general mission. Why podcast dot com? there is a link on our page too, are web shop. But if you can't click on the link, what is our web shot, blink and jan, why shop, dot com? So just g in w h, Y S, age, open dot com that should cover that. We have a narrowly case tonight. I realize what we bit off with this one cause I just thought out: sister another, neither kay somebody. You know it's kind of crazy murderer, and I actually went into It- not realising that it was kind of ay, wrongful conviction case. That's came out while I was right researching it.
there are so many rata holes, but this one so What are we? What are we discussing tonight? We're talking about lorenz yet been beneke, who was arrested and later convicted for the murder of her husbands, ex wife, christine shots on may twenty eighth of nineteen eighty one it will probably- word to her as laurie for the rest of the show yeah. Just just to note, this woman is known by different names. Lorenzi have been bannock is her actual name in nineteen. Ninety four: she legally changed it to Laurie ben bannock, so I feel comfortable calling her laurie. That's fine many people. They will refer to her as bambi but bambi is an aim given to her by the media and the media also was calling her a playboy bunny. This was problematic for me because when I was researching
as for a short while I thought she was a play by bunny. She just worked as aid, but a cocktail waitress or a server at a hey, playboy club. for, like three weeks yeah three weeks, not even a month, she's now known as the playboy by that murdered her husband's acts. Yet I think she was a police, the officer for a lot longer than she was a working at a a playboy club, bright, possibly we'll get into that, because that was the career that she was looking to get for herself. She went into the academy she graduated sixth in her class. I believe that's good, but at the time she had a roommate and her roommate was
Going through the academy as well in her name was Judy's s duties a little bit more of a party girl. I think you I get that feeling, but that may be based around the fact that she was using marijuana. That's a question with laurie she a user. I may we don't really know. We know that there was a phone call placed that made an accusation and then later she and Judy went to Iraq concert and according to law, She didn't using marijuana the concert, but judy did by busted
oh yeah and judy gets busted. The police take her in while she ends at filing saying in a report that lorry used marijuana and that gets lorry in trouble both of these women and at getting fired or dismissed from the department. For this reason, lorry actually was involved with some different stuff with the police agency correct. She was we or was this later when she was going to internal affairs and end filing complaints or issues with other officers. This was later because she felt that the dismissal was unfair. And then when she was shown some photos of officers at a picnic who were at it was a nude party will put it that way. It's a new party and there were activities going on at this party that were in violation of the departments, policies.
So she was looking at this and thinking wool. All of these officers are still working for the department. Why aren't they facing trouble? Like I like he's thinking to herself, I had a minor infraction here and an accusatory one at that. It's not like they caught her with it. Meanwhile, these other people are there in photographs, doing illegal activities, or at least as far as the department's concerned against department policy, definitely right and they're still working for the department. So she took this to the equal employment opportunity commission of Milwaukee. She felt she had a good case here.
now this gets them in trouble. The officers in question now the other interesting thing here is is one of those officers is alfred, o shalt, jr and we'll just call him fred, because that's what everyone calls him. He ends up getting involved with Lori about this time, he's one of the people at these parties these? At least the party that was in question took place at the tracks tavern and he was the photographer at these parties. He'd documented what going on and there is a whole photo album that would show up later. So she in Fred are getting involved. Did fred has just recently divorced from Christine.
This is kind of a rebound relationship with with lorry people say that she was kind of a trophy wife or that he was. He left his wife, for you know something better. I don't know how they. Yes, she was not a career type woman, but it was just odd that she was filing complaints against these people and he's one of them. Yet they get involved. Right now I don't know what you found, but it seemed to me as though he aware but Oh that she was aware of him being involved, it's possible it's possible, but it's also strains that she would report on them.
and then say, oh sure, you're one of those involved and let's get together yeah. You would think that that would might take her a view of him, after all, he still working for that apartment. So, let's talk a bit about who Fred is because freds a police officer- and he has a long time partner. His name is Michael dirty and in nineteen, seventy five, a rent back up a little bit here in nineteen seventy five,
they responded to a call that was actually not in in their jurisdiction is at a bar. Will they show up and the officer who has a suspect, yeah suspect? Next to him, the shops are still has his gun in his hand, and he turns when these other officer show up when shots and dirty show up any turns towards them, and they both open fire. They got him down. They hit him quite an or of times, and they kill him and the later on, the Milwaukee county district attorney's office clears them. I don't know how, but they do. right, I think there is an understanding here that it was an accident that they felt that they were in danger, because there was an armed person limit Remember that officer wasn't wearing his uniform accidents. You know they
I don't understand how they can get away with an accident, whereas the rest of the populace, but I'm not going to devolve from this situation. Let's just move on, but yeah he's cleared in this case and in so as partner. So anyway, these to get married the first time they marry. It doesn't stick because, at least according to the law. Cause in that area. There had to have been more time difference between his between the time of his divorce and his new marriage for the new marriage to be legal, though end up getting married twice. Actually as they were too too soon. Vanunu. Who knows why that is if it was just a good match, or you know if he found her, that attract ever what? What have you? Whatever? The reason was he was seem to be in a hurry to get married to her. Of course, this case has to do with the murder and we're talking about christine shawls
which is freds ex wife and she has a home and her two sons live with her Levin in seven years old, yes, The eleven year old is shown in a seven year. Old is shannon about two a m on may twenty eighth of nineteen eighty one in intruder gets into the home. Now we do. A little bit about the intruder, because he knew it's about the house. He doesn't just go to Christine's room, he moves about the house and actually enters one of the son's rooms, at least one of them, and he binds and gags her, and then he places his gun against her back and fires. One shot and I believe that entered her heart yet said, did so she's taken out the suns, get a good look at him and he supposedly has pale, or
the is it may be? Reddish hair yeah, tied into ponytail, might be wearing like a jogging suit on is the one reporting most of this, and he saying that it appears to him as though the man is wearing black police shoes, which is interesting because their father as a police officers or he know with those look like right, and not only that, but then their mothers current boyfriend it. While the time was a police officer as well, and how do they described the gun it they, they said it was. He looked used or not new, not shiny. The reason why its partners cause it doesn't match the description of somebody else's revolver so that that, for the intruder please the scene, but one thing these boys say is that it was a man he said
I held, and he made grunting noises which, like they they could tell. It was a man. There was no doubt in sean's mind at least so a man enters the place kills the ex wife of a police officer. While the police depart It does not take this news very well and they see it as an attack on one of their own, even though he's divorced, she's, the mother of children, of a police officer at this upsets them they're, going to get to the bottom of it right, yeah and therefore suspect, well happens to be fred schulz, because I don't have much else to go on. So it's always the spouse right then. Take a look at the spouse first. So first question is: where were you the night of on may twenty eightth knights and eighty one his his initial
statement is he was on duty investigating a a robbery. I think he and his partner, Michael dirty, were on duty by it. That's enough for them to say: oh well, he has an alibi and dirty his partner agrees or concurs with where they were both state that their on duty, yeah that says to them, will maybe it's. It's not him, but who else could have done this and there looking at the the one or the or you know that the gunshot wound they're thinking this looks like it was a a thirty. Eight caliber and Fred has a thirty eight caliber service pistol and he has his personal weapon. So then they go all who else has access
to this gun and that night lorry is the only one home and being that Fred still had keys to Christine's apartment that those keesar at the. at the house, so they assume will lorry had access to these keys and had access to his gun, so it could have him very well Christine didn't know he had a key to her place and what I understand is he actually took his sons, key sean's key and made a copy of that year, and so she wouldn't have known that he had it and the other thing is is he may have had more than two guns: he had his duty gun and then he had his off duty gun, but he may have had one more even beyond that, but so she would have access to this gun. Supposedly now, corn to lorry she was supposed to go.
that night, but then her friend ended up working, she flaked, and so she stayed at home right. So we there's either she made that up or she actually did have to work since she just ended up staying home, So lorry has really know alibi and no one to confirm her whereabouts. Fred has an alibi. Lorry does not now looking good for a lorry, no and so Fred seems to get out of them, or let that the crosshairs he gets out of the crosshairs exactly he is out of the crosshairs now she's in the crosshairs in here. He he's on her side. He's telling hurries reassuring her, though figure out They got the wrong person, though dill they'll come to that conclusion. and he's telling her that all the way to trial in I'm sorry, but that's like now,
How light would risk there already charging you at the crime than they there's no they're gonna you're out the right person, but anyways before we get to trial right in. He sets her up with a lawyer so he's sort of ink control here he's orchestrating things you Imagine she's young. She made. I know what she should be doing. She absolutely doesn't know it She needs be doing, although she does have prior police. You know experience but it's not a lot and it's one thing to be charged. people's another thing to be charged and beyond the defensive. I would say at this point she's very naive, absolutely and at some point she should have had some doubt about him, just based on the fact that she didn't know him for that long.
For they got serious. Well, people people fall in love. Man, love rules at this point there out of is she's a trophy wife who likes to spend money and fred is how, to give all of his money to his ex wife and children, she, has access to the key and to a weapon. They also find a wig. That kind of looks like the same. Color is what the children described as the assailant having light at least same hair color in that is found in the plumbing of her apartment of lorries apartment this wig, her apartment shares plumbing with another apartment, but we believe that the way was actually flushed and that other apartment yeah we'll get to that later right, but it's in the plumbing of that building. They find this way.
Egg, which looks very damning. So why would someone need a wig yeah? And so we have a lot of circumstantial evidence, but it's all pointing at lorry and they're putting the puzzle pieces together. They say that this weapon that was used in the murder is up lately, his off duty gun that she had access to day match the bullets they say all this stuff is his. this weapon that he did not have on him that night. They are say that she had a jumpsuit where she had clothing that matched the
assailants clothing. There are. There was a lot of things here that just all fit together dear blonde hair, is that they found that they match with hair is found in her hair rush on the autopsy of christine they fine hares, and they say that these two hairs match hairs from lorries hair brush. So we have not just circumstantial now we have physical evidence tying her too crime motive, murder, weapon. You don't get this too often. I was really neat and packaged up and they also check to see if there's any evidence of sperm in case there is an assault or rape, and they say that there was no evidence
So the trial ass about two weeks, her friend, quote, unquote friend Judy she testifies at the trial and says worry has spoken about blowing away Christine. you're down blaanor away at trial They also have the children. We sean testify chances, It was a man of my house and there was no way my stepmother could have done this. So you have conflicting testimony here, but between there's judy but there's also fred fred testifies and his testimony is on. The gun is interesting because he almost wasn't at the trial. So what happens is a month before the trial? starts. There are a couple of lieutenants James Kelly and craig Hastings. They get a hold of the ay and there
I need to move ahead with charges against fred shots now the da responds. Do you want Ben bannock? Or do you want shots, so the charges against fred, you know he's a police officer. They don't think I guess when it comes down to it, that it merits taking him and trying to do something with him when they have a murder trial. That's about to happen, and that takes precedent. So they decide well yeah we're going to need shots for this trial. So we'll just let these charges drop, so they they drop, drop it against fred and pony, and on mooring, dna or just drop. They give him immunity. So here safe, no matter what he does a trial, he can go, he can go and do whatever he needs to do. A trial now the zeroing in on bombastic or had been beneke and shelters home free. So
He gives testimony on this weapon as stating Where was in and how it probably was the murder weapon. Well, he states that he did not have it that it was at home that she would have access to it. She knew where I was and she is sentenced to life in prison. So yeah you go through this and see while they found her guilty for good reason. Right yeah, I probably would have found her guilty to a lot of you what cause it was. Pre cut, dry I'd say the only thing it trial that really posed a problem for the prosecution was sean shots. But being eleven years old, some people can disregard him as I witnessed testimony, is cheap You don't know how people are going to react to a child's testimony if he had
it's seriously hurt at the time? Maybe they would have given him more of the benefit of the doubt but sensed it was just his mother that suffered then. Maybe they were able to see past it because there were too many other people saying no it's her yeah. This episode is brought to you by peacock bridge. ding the original limited series, a friend of the family based on story of the Jan roper. Kidnappings from nickel, sky executive producer of the act and candy and after producer eliza hip and comes a dark, compelling look at the harrowing story through new lands produced which amber burke herself this theory stars anna pack, when jake lacy college hanks LEO Tipton and mckenna grace stream now only on paper
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yeah and she, ah she she starts to find out. She starts to uncover. information about her trial. In her case, she finds out from the original autopsy pathologist that he said that the hare fibers were not a match and they all showed they were from Christine. None of them were from lorry. Yet after he makes this determine in the prosecutor has the hare fibres, re analyzed somewhere else, and they find that their from lorry. She asked finds that d, the ballistics the gun, don't seem to match up. She finds out a lot of things, her friend Judy who testified against her recounts, restatement of saying that lorry what wanted to blow away christine
come to find out. The whig that was found in the plumbing The neighbor who shared the plumbing with lorry, says oh yeah, yeah and Judy came over to use the restroom and after that day the plumbing was screwed up. So now we're thinking did Judy go over there and flush the whig down the toilet cause, she knew the plumbing was the same and cheaper, and she brings up these things during her appeal process. They say no her to appeals are denied. So lorries, like you, said she's fed up. She wants out she's been in there for a while. She has a cellmate assembly here. Sally who has a brother who comes to visit Dominic his aims: Dominic googly, otto googly otto lorry thinks he's a good looking, guy,
he thinks lower is a good looking chick. It's like match dot com for prisoners when he way they get to talking and they she sort of stresses that this is er a good relationship because there are no distractions. All they can do is talk yeah, so they do a lot of talking and a lot of visiting and get really get to know each other lemmings. That's all you! That's all you gotta minutes it's you're sitting in a visiting room, more whatever, and you can't touch you there you can't doing I have to do is just get to know each other. I think everyone should start relationships. This way, just leave out the prism, Why wont work otherwise right? So she talks to him and lets him now she can't be there anymore. He has to get
I know that some people think that lorry doesn't come across as a very intelligent person, but she must be somewhat crafty because she figures out a way to break out of this prison gap in she. Does it quick right once they decide their. He says, he's gonna park on the fence line with his car she notices that there is a laundry room window that they leave open and she can get to it if she just climbs upon some washers darth.
So I don't remember what her excuse was to the guards, but she said she had to go back and do something. Laundry yeah laundry goes back to do some laundry while she gets out and when she's heading out she says she doesn't know if some headlights that are approaching are Dominic's or not, but she hides, and luckily that is not Dominic, so she dodges a bullet there. I think yeah. She moves on she's able to get Dominic now on his part. He has stolen a couple of social security papers or birth certificates steals some bursary, if it gets, because they need identification. While their plan is the head to canada when they get to the border will hold on his car is got just married, written all over it light there newlyweds and they're on their honeymoon going to canada. Further honeymoon, I think they are
engaged or video, but they play it off as if their married, your right eight when they get up to the border patrol there like oh, we know we had all of our stuff stolen, but we do have the his birth certificates, the show who we are what we forgot to mention that her husband, Fred immediately divorced her after she was convicted of first grimmer herself. She can get married if she wants and then Fred went on to date, a teenager, but mobile does go on so she huh, the fence jumps endowment ex car just married gulped canada, and they get stop by the canadian border patrol man say her. Purse was just stolen, had all our ideas in it, though, We're goin on our honeymoon. Please just help us out. Let us through here is our birth certificates to show who we are.
This was pre nine, eleven guy. You can get. Why? If you? If you look at these two people attractive couple, they look nice When you just let him in the eye probably world, they dont look dangerous. aliens are polite there like then one of us. How long are you planning to being in canada and they say two weeks welcome decay, that and therein, but I hate to say it. You know she gets a job. I think she's waitresses idea any a they make it about ninety five days or so yeah. Just a few months there's a point at which she asked if she's laurie The reason why is because the media is just swarming on this? You know former playboy bunny,
convicted of murder escapes from prison? Her faces everywhere, yet sensational and and she's got us mean over the supply. grew by thy supporters, everything and their theirs. Run bambi run is what it's all about, yeah, even these bumper stickers that have banned beyond the side and into the laughed it it says, run bambi and so she has always supporters, but there are also helping to get her name out there yet, which is alerting authorities to pay she might be in canada when you re so someone asked if she lorry and she says no, but they know the time is winding down there in trouble, the it's just like you said it's too it's too big. They can escape it. It's going to swallow them that its note notoriety, so they
trying to pack all their stuff to get away, and then the royal can, though, royal. Canadian mounted police show up, don't don't don't and down parties over, but she files for refugee status, guess yeah or asylum or whatever. Yes, she wants to be taken in by the canadians, and you know from what we know of canadian law. That is probably a good call, yeah yeah Canadians alot more polite and maybe a little too easy when it comes to criminals, so, but they don't come, well she's there about a year and a half yeah, but one thing that the canadians do for her. Is they contact Milwaukee and they say. Look immediately review this year and they problem.
To do it. You dish a review on the case and inquiry, so we sort hinted at it, but maybe there are issues with the evidence that was used against her in court and well, there's good and bad news with this judicial review, and that is that They don't really investigate everything and there's some big things. They don't investigate. They also basically say that there was no conspiracy against her by that part man or by the prosecutors just everything's above board on that, but maybe interpretation of evidence, things like that suit. What are some of these things that they found that were not correct,
while they could never find the hair is that matched dowry that matched lorry those were just gone or they never existed in the first place. So really, the one piece of physical evidence that tighter to the crime is out. In our data, circumstantial de ballistics from there the weapon not matching up so well. Now now that they have their own experts. Looking at him, it doesn't match the muzzle burn from the point shot doesnt soon a match either his canada Jeremy. amber kind of moment here with they they pretty much destroy that that was the murder weapon. So. physical evidence is gone. Murder weapon is gone Now we're down to Judy said that you wanted to blower way, Judy recanted
no more testimony that she wanted harm or whatever against Christine, remember. We said that they tested for seamen and they didn't find any well, there's actually component of seamen that lets them. No. If there has been a man that has been involved with a victim sexually- and that was present- and in fact, even though they didn't dick disclose it to the defence, they were actually cross. Checking this with some other sexual assault cases. I dont think lorry has the ability to deposit seamen anywhere as right. I could be wrong, but I buy it. I dont have a degree in anatomy, but I'm pretty sure, lorry is female, it's really unbelievable! So at the guns ruled out now there was lot on the gun. Also, that's than other thing,
didn't come in during the first trial so which gun had blot on it. It was on duty gun, the one that fred had on whom the one he said he had on him had on it. Now they did a little testing on it and they found that blood was type a witches whose type well it just so happens that Christine shots his blood is taipei. what a kuwaiti dink yeah. So I don't know what the hell, though in does the odds are, but in freds alibi changes a little bit yeah. We find out that he was actually on. Duty was actually add on a couple of bars: that's what he claims is you found out that actually wasn't doing my job
So now I'm going to come clean and say that I was drinking a bar right. Here's the thing: if he had been prosecuted like they had planned to prosecute him that wouldn't he would have been useless. He would now it not have been able to testify now without his testimony. Maybe she doesn't get convicted because it's his testimony about the gun. Now that we know that he is not in time the truth about a lot of things. Now you really have to wonder what what happened with this situation? Why was it his wife that was targeted yeah? It is you lot to think about and being that he divorced, his wife mediately got with laurie once lorry goes to jail
he immediately files for divorce with lorry then turns around and gets with a eighty nineteen year old woman after lorry, so he's real, quick turnarounds here, just just put not out there when the gun was collected and the gun was collected by two people. Michael murphy and fred shots. Ok, now, even Michael ok noted that the gun appeared to have been fully loaded, and not used for a long time, and it was shiny. Whereas the gun that these children describe was dirty or old. Looking just differences in and
adoption of the gun, whereas his service revolver, probably more old. Looking because it's a service revolver and it's been used a lot more. But it's an important point because his own partner made note of whom this doesn't look like. It was fired recently here, yeah now, you know why there were people that felt. Maybe she wasn't involved. Maybe she was. Framed or railroaded, because you have all these police officers involved you yet prosecution who isn't following up on certain. You know, pieces of evidence, but focusing on only things that he's getting information on from his own experts, I'm not a conspiracy guy, I die.
Joy, blame you know, incompetence over maoists, but in this case it's this is too many coincidences to just think that oh well, they just screwed. This one up his seems really orchestrated, Another just kind of off hand issue with fred is his friend, frederick, frederick horn, burger he's an old boyfriend of duty and he does construction or projects for fred. So frederick is a
third character in this plot, frederick goes in disguise wearing some kind of wig and mask in beats duty to a bloody pulp and robs her. A few weeks before the murder happens, frederick is actually charged with this crime and ends up serving time for this attack, but frederick and fred seemed to be in cahoots the they're, all sort of inner mingled and entangled in this this web here. So when we get to theories and comentario, I I'll give you mine after extradition, when she's brought back to Milwaukee, they sticker in solitary confinement for almost a year, that'll screw anybody up. Well, of course, with all these problems. One of the things that occurred
was they wanted the dna testing to be done, but not in the state lab the state crime lab they wanted to send outside of there, because they didn't trust him but interest the prosecution state lab anymore. Why? Why not? Well, they hadn't had good luck with them so far, so they wanted to try something else. For some reason it seem like they were going to have to foot the bill so
There's a man that's been involved in this case for a long long time in his name's ire robins in our robins is a private investigator and he wholeheartedly believes in her innocence, and so he helped creatively to find a way to pay for the dna testing. So they end up ah making a deal with doktor phil, so she's going to be working with the doktor phil showed to sort of give the people what they were.
I guess that people want to know what's going on with her with her case, and this will help pay the bill. So she agrees to have the tests. The test results revealed on the show, but the problem is: is she already ran once I'm? You remember. This is run bambi run right dear, so that producers actually stock her to make sure that she's not going anywhere that the deal goes through that when they get the results, show beyond the show By it she's pretty paranoid, she is trying to get out of a window and she injures her foot changes it bad enough where they have to amputate the foot. Yes, she like either John
yeah, there there's a discrepancy about whether it's a first floor or second floor. Well, I kind of wonder if maybe it's just second floor because houses she hurt her foot this bad. So they were trying to do dna testing to see if well, if they could match match anyone. They say that the that Benelux dna. Wasn't their lorries seems to be cleared. I dont know where this goes, but they were also trying to do. Herman, whether frederick horn, burger freds old friend, right whether his dna might have been involved.
They say that something they want to do now. I don't. I have not found why that was never completed, but it certainly sounded as though she didn't keep up or into the deal with the DR phil show yeah jeep. She was supposed to be on the show, so they could read the results off, but instead she's at the hospital because she jumped out the window. Now I I get it, I get cheese she's freaked out she's, not quite sane anymore and when you see later interviews with her you can see a level of anxiety or even ptsd she's, not very clear and concise, she's very off the wall. Now I would say that that's a combination of what she's gone through prison and her longstanding, solitary once she got return
But with all this, this new inquiry prosecutor and judge she essentially gets granted a new trial. in lieu of a trial. They offer her a plea deal plead second degree and will give you time served and you get to walk and they don't even look at the whole escaped from jail peace. So yeah it's a no contest yeah, where yeah, I guess it's it's second degree murder, but she's, basically saying I'm not going to contest that and she pleads guilty to a lesser charge and she gets to walk. We an idea why she does this. Well, I do. I know she her dad is is unhealthy and could die. Soon. I know that there is a lot of things, but take all that out. If you could
walk out of jail. A free person that day, as opposed to going through, their trial. Another appeal another, whatever, with a fifty fifty chance of being found guilty again, I think a lot of people did take the palladium, they're dislike hey. I can walk now more, that's true, but when she spoke of this she says that it was her dad that he was the factor because she was confident in all the evidence they had. Now they re able to show that the state had at the very least, then misinformed, mishandled evidence right, and at most this was outright just fabrication. She was looking at years before it would all saddle yeah sure I, I suppose the timing was important there too, but I really think she needed to get out because her dad had requested that, from her
I need to be alive when you get out yeah. I need to see you. I need to see my daughter free right and he liked to see her Zanu rated too, but yeah? That wasn't is important to him. I dont think now for her. As we know, that was everything and she worked very hard with the help of IRA robins and her attorneys for years, even requested the governor pardon her woke has when she took the plea deal, she pleaded guilty that she did it. She had to walk. so she can't turn around and say Oh here is evidence strategy thing you know errand and so she she gave up. Oliver chances, but she still took it all the way to the supreme court who shot her now in its not because they shouted down because she didn't have enough
dense to exonerate herself they shot her down because she took the plea deal and legally they just they couldn't do it right, but in a no contest is just slightly different. It's like a little nuance: it's just she's, not contesting it, but she's not really admitting it. She just sort of act. She just sort of taking it, so it is a little different. It helps her save it helps both parties save face. I think when it comes down to it, because she's not having to say. Yeah really did this, but then there also saying we still got a conviction but cheap. She doesn't have any real recourse at that point. No, no that's why she has never been exonerated, and she that's why she went for a pardon instead of exoneration or a retrial
I mean she's tried everything. Yeah she's tried going that route, but even even the courts were telling her. No, you gave up that right, yeah that sucks but hey she. She got out and she was free. She had to spend time with her family So here is this: this crazy mass of a case. What do you think happened? I honestly don't know it's hard for me to say, because from what I read one, the boys was being attacked by this man and I have trouble thinking that Fred would send someone to harm everyone and his family
if it was fred. The boys would know their own father. I just don't know why he would harm his own children. I mean the wife. Obviously he's I just never got the feeling that Fred wanted any of them harmed. He probably didn't want as children harm. Some people suspect that the photo album that I mentioned was found in her place in Christine's place and that might have been something that the killer was trying to retrieve, So there could have been multiple police officers or law enforcement trying to get this there's. No, that's what got him in trouble, place. All I'm saying is: if its fred, he had a lot of reasons to do different things here. In other words-
one. It takes care of some of that alimony money. Three hundred in some dollars a month. That's a lot of income going out. He could have taken care of that. I dont really understand because the the mammas supposedly trying to tie something around where the boys next, like a new sir something so I dont know if his idea was just to bind everybody but maybe not kill everybody. We just don't we don't know we don't know what was going on with that situation by, but fred is the one who had gotten into legal trouble and at that point he wasn't clear. He did know he had charge is coming up against impossibly so if he could get rid of people that could test
fight against him and who were also getting money from him. Now, that's your! U two birds, one stone he's taken care of a lot of business all at once, and he s. He can't just go there himself, because his own kids would probably recognize him even with a disguise. I would imagine they got an act. He's police officer yeah. I guess I look at it- is if fred involved. Then that would mean that he could have hired frederick his old buddy, but I'm not sure frederick was out or free at that time. At that time, because frederick had just
Wheaton duty to a bloody pulp and robbed her, so was he already behind bars for that or not or was he walking around free? I thought it took them a little while to get him like, maybe a month or yeah, and if that's the case, then it's right at bout, the same time as the murder, so if Fred hired frederick and gave him his service pistol, his duty weapon frederick could have done this morning is also said that frederick was taking credit for this murder in prison yeah he bragged to his cellmates that he'd killed Christine now they could lie, but I think if he was already incarcerated, when this went down that would have already been brought into light yeah. We would already heard someone say aunt no, but he was already in custody that never has come out. So it's so it's a possibility. I would say he was out at the time yeah it's really iffy to me. I guess
If I look at it this way that the intruder was not going to harm the children, then then it's much more likely to me that if that fred Schulz did send someone there, but Fred could send somebody there and had no entry two of them harming the children, but they just did one over they'd have to face him. Then. and this isn't someone he just randomly picked up off the street someone he knew and he's a cop supposedly. How do I was they re able to do to lorry yeah? You know I don't think this is a guy you want to cross. I mean he's already gone down another officer and gone right daylight. So it's scary. I I think frederick is a prime suspect. I am absolutely surprised that he wasn't even looked at.
During the case. But it was because they said. Oh, it was his off duty weapon and therefore lorry was the only one that had access to this weapon, but once you realize that More than likely was is on duty, weapon or just another weapon in general. More now skies limit you got it. Options here, but there was a man in the area at the time, and this is early morning, who'd contacted the police and said I have information that you might want to know, and he told I saw a man jogging and it seemed suspicious. and they didn't want to know about it because they had already focused in on henri yeah. I, as we already have a suspect. No thank you were good thanks calling the tips hotline and the jogger was a man does the case you were wondering so fostered
I really didn't go into this thinking. It was a wrongful conviction case. I actually went in just thinking that it was a crazy cases of her escape and everything else, but after you see all the evidence, get overturned or destroyed or vetted to the point where it is no longer valid,
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Transcript generated on 2022-10-18.