I dont another, I'm doing fine. Just how are you I'm? Ok, Before we start? This week's episode justin was recently a guest on the goth librarian podcast, which covers crime.

Oddities haunted places. You know all things dark and mysterious. The episode is about movie curses and just and gave some insights and opinions on the first chrome movie from nineteen nineties also if you're in canada, particularly toronto. I part of true crime podcast live in toronto? That will be, the royal at about two p m on august eighteenth. If you want tickets, get them soon, you get them by going to the royal o and navigating through their schedules august click on think you'll find in there and get your tickets, I will be there, along with robin warder from the trail and cold jordan from time podcast, christie, lee from canadian, true crime and nina. I'm already gone. Speed nina. She has a long form podcast. I really want you to check out here's a promo for it.

From January first, one thousand nine hundred and seventy six through the end of march, one thousand nine hundred and seventy seven. The metro detroit area was the site of nine child murders. Three of those cases are resolved, but the other six cases remain open. With most of these deaths attributed to the as yet unidentified oakland county child killer talk to strangers as along form, podcast focused on the series of unresolved child murders. Joint as we explore the stories of these young victims, the impasse on their families and the community, and what happened to the investigation into these crimes. Subscribe to, don't talk to strangers on apple pod casts stature or your favorite pod catcher.

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price line, dot com for the easiest way to get more wow and extent vacations. Let's get back to the show, night. We're going to talk about interesting case. You normally it say wrongful, or a who done it. This one might be a wrongful. Since, if that sayer term, I guess I don't know in it a court case any trial, prosecution and the defense they have to frame, an argument for, guilt or innocence, and they have to prove it to a jury. Then. Has to decide based the evidence, and only the evidence provided during trial, the outcome. of somebody's life. This is why our justice system is so interesting,

and I sometimes believe that a jury He can get something wrong, but it doesn't mean that it shows wrong it. means that the price, seclusion or defence, didn't good enough job, so we talk about tonight Erin tonight, we're too king about a man by the name of men, ignacio and a war, and by the name of Brenda sue schaefer, who here dated for a couple of years and was? charged in her murder, Lou. they'll Kentucky timber, twenty fourth nineteen, eighty eight weeks not to say Louis phil. During this episode. Brenda sue. Schaefer was born on April twenty fifth nineteen, he too She had multiple siblings, John berlin, TIM and MIKE her mother. suffered from lupus and brenda would routinely care for her and help her out she

worked as a nursing assistant for doktor willing. spalding, who said she was his best. Employee ever. in nineteen sixty nine, her brother, John junior join the louisville division. police and eventually made detective, in nineteen seventy one he and his partner wilbur haze were arresting three men and one of them, pulled out a gun. Wilbur was found dead in the back seat of an unmarked police. Car and John junior was found about a block away, also dead. He left me and the child so this families dough a tragedy in the past and its kind. The sad story, we're gonna, be telling tonight well talk a bit about brenda, sue, schaefer when she was in high school. She. A guy. They got married young and

together, quite a while things about ten years They had a lot of issues. We could look at it and say: well, they were young, Of course they had money issues. the way. I understand it, though her parents, were wanting heard, a stick. It out Brenda was wanting a divorce by it, her pair, swear like this is the choice made see need to fix it. Well, and work out she end up getting divorced and then from their brenda, started dating a man by the name of Jim rush. Now this guy it was good to her but a pound. Brenda, didn't like the fact that he drank a lot and, apart from he was a great guy and had money was very romantic with her, there were lots of love, notes that he would write to her talking about how there is no way to describe the amount of love that he had for her They were together about eight years, Jim really wanted to marry her, but she just couldn't make that commitment because of his

drinking and so they ended up splitting and its after that split that Brenda and at meeting melick, not o brien, his best friend named joy, small would she knew that Brenda was single and you want her to kind of get back out there and the reason is because branded really put herself out there and as far as I can tell she didn't, have very many relationships, so was a blind date for Brenda and she, went out with Joyce and bob and mel and had a good time, and male was well to do. He had a corvette, he had a boat, he had money. He was a salesman. Travelling salesman m would go. Even to thailand, and they said was the kind of salesman where he didn't take. No he's one of those guys who says I me tell you this. He just would not stir the sale right

this is the guy, it's always scheming, oh, be closing that's probably why he was so successful. So. He and brenda start dating. two joyous it turns out that mel is kind kinky which has come. In contrast to Brenda, Brenda's, very modest and men. wants to live and exciting life and exciting sex life and so that's really where their trouble started. In the beginning. Also, Brenda family, especially her brothers? They say they didn't like MEL right off the bat this Melvin guy was always exaggerating, telling lies and just wouldn't shut up. Pretty much melvin is an older man they said he was narcissistic which we go through this case. I think you might find that that be a true statement. So brenda

confiding enjoys about the things that mel wid tell her tat, get her to do, and she and very comfortable with those thing. So on one hand, she a lot of what mel brought to the table, but there were some disturbing things that he tell her. I want to do with her that were in our causing. Some friction in the relationship he was always telling her that she needed to relax acts more especially the bedroom. He would try to get her drunk or high even go so far as to give her time colonizers pills to knock her out. Brenda even spoke about him using chloroform on her to her friend and when and heard this site you need to leave you need to get out of this situation is very serious, for whatever reason brenda, said, you don't understand, and

burned. His family interprets this, as men. Such a controlling person that she couldn't remove herself from the situation. While we ve seen this before we covered the Josh Paolo case, the low, of control that someone can exert over the person or with, and that's the kind of control mel was putting on Brenda. If he was out of the country if he was traveling, he had pre assign times when she had to be ready to take a phone call. And if she was late, if she'd an answer that phone, he would lose it now dentists, that Brenda worked for doktor way, spalding. He really brenda I'm not saying he had romantic interest in her, but I think really cared about her and so when mel, would call up there and ask about brenda He would sense that control and he didn't like it, but he

wasn't any more effective at convincing brenda leave, then her friend, Joyce or Brenda's family, so either no brenda wasn't really listening to any one else. I think it's it's one of those things where people need to come to their own decisions, can say: hey you don't have to take steps. Aithra see just go right to DE I'm telling you what you need to do. People they get there on their own and so brandy, eventually gets there. We know He gets there because she reaches out to Jim rush down or prior boyfriend, and she's, telling him about all the stuff. That's happening with mel, Jim, is telling her. You need to leave this guy he's bad news. You can't stick with a guy like that rush, even went so far as to offer to help her leave and it was really good gesture on his part, but you can force. Anyone there. To do it on their own

september. Twenty first nineteen. Eighty eight brenda jam and said I've. Finally done it, I broke up with now, and so there talking about making plans. She's got one last thing she needs to do. She needs to meet with mel and give some things back to him, apparently some jury yeah, expensive jewellery according to her, but Obviously, gifts that were given to her, the thing is what I've seen other controlling relationships? The controlling party. Always, wants to leave a hook in to get you to. back so they say, oh well, it's ok. you can have the the sweater. I let you borrow so a month later they can say. Can I get sweater back Brenda's, moving on cheese, speed, which Jim rush again, I think they're looking at maybe getting back together. That's the way I took it. Mel

as called an old love of his name. Marianne shore they had dated for a while before he got with Brenda. There is key. the contrast between the two ladys mel was never really romantically interested in marianne but mary and would do whatever he wanted seemed to be a subsided relationship where she was enamored with melvin, but He was just using marianne and emulating her so she's just always kind of out there for him. I think that makes it easy for him to call her up after Brenda breaks up with them over the phone he starts hatching a plan with Marianne shore, so Brenda is going to drop off this jewelry or gifts that's the last anyone hears from her on september, twenty four nineteen. Eighty eight car, a nineteen eighty four buick regal was found

abandoned along the westbound lane of interstate sixty four now the police, call about the car Brenda had been ported missing, the day before after coming home. It was. And his brother tommy and his girlfriend Linda love who- ported brenda missing too the saint Matthew police department, where her car was found was close to her house. This isn't far away. So if she had broken down on the side of the road she could walked home or walk to pay phone or something again, this is eighty eight, so cell phones aren't a the car had some damage on it Right tire was flat. Look like but he had broken into. It tried to still a stereo and the speakers in the back There was also small amounts of blood on the back seat,

So on the back tail pipe. They found a handprint so. car could have been just abandon and then vandals came along after the fact, or it was an abduction because the one who owns the car is missing. They also noticed that the driver's seat was pushed back as if somebody, Taller or larger had been driving the car. I with blood being found in the vehicle, tells them. This could be foul play. early that morning, this is just after four. In the morning, ignacio called to report that his girlfriend Brenda's sue schaefer was missing which is interesting because how would he know she's missing, and why would he wait till four, a m to call I can tell you why, because even so controlling that when he get a hold of her anymore. Something was wrong. Don't you

with that story. Is Brenda had broken things off with him, so what We have responded if he had now. This is all too. Colliding narratives of what now says, and what are the family and surviving people say? right, but the problem with this is: is there were people that knew that was going to meet mel, and that was the last time anybody had heard from her, and Of course, all of these people, who don't like MEL or who have come to know I like him like Joyce We are looking at me like yeah. What Did you do the brenda? What we have stably pattern from now that he's drugged, her abused her and she in the process of leaving him and he's last person to see her alive, Not just us, but the lead detective lead

active wesley also back smell the police look into his alibi because He tells them where he was every hour. Basically, since he met with brenda, but you know they through in their they're, not really able to back up his alibi it's kind of weird because it almost works out for him person at a restaurant, did see him when Mel said he was there but according to man, he was there with brenda, and employee who saw him. There said he wasn't with Brenda. Let's go over MEL's alibi row quick to so people have an idea what he would he said. He said that they picked him up in her car because he added trouble with his core bat had summoned who, with his tyres, and he said that they draw round aimlessly did a little shopping than they were to a place called captains quarters around nine o clock. And then he said Brenda.

Him off at his mother's home around eleven thirty, the police, conducted, an interview with mel and went through his alibi, like I said where brenda laughed at around eleven thirty and accord, He gives this idea that they're, together still but the detective in charge of the case his name's Jim Wesley. He does by anything now saying like I said he can check through the alibi and see that it doesn't care check out it doesn't feel right, especially But the car is saying that war he didn't take his car then, He was seen driving at the next morning, like he didn't Have time can use out all night too the tires fixed and all of a sudden, it's fine, the other, odd thing that happens, though, in the interview is melvin, is talking the jam, the detective and calling him Jim and he has this whole thing like he has. This were poor with them, but it

it's not right. I mean that he doesn't know him While they're trying to ask him questions here, asking the detective's questions so like he's skirting around things, but concerned about brenda and asking m questions according to Jim, it feels like he's fishing for information. He wants to know what they know. These are red flags. he calls in the fbi. The detective does anyone I would like you to get a profile done on me ignacio justin. You can imagine what this profile ends up being like this is a guy who's upset that is girlfriends dumping him, and so he take action against her. They do a lot of stuff on male figure out, that he has a lot of narcissistic behaviour. Yeah there really going to nail now to the war. Now

bring this statement or one of his statements. He actually says that he to show off the gifts that he'd bought Brenda It's kind of a weird situation where he behaving as if they're still together, Brenda has now been missing for several months and Melvin gets a letter a pretty much states if her body isn't found and, like two weeks, you're gonna die so Melvin hands that over two authorities It turns out that it was written by her player doktor spalding this is considered a terrorist threat melvin, do you want to press charges? He says yes, this goes to court. Spalding is charged with this, of course mel. and has put up on the stand in court, and about it, but

spalding lawyer says well, did you kill Brenda and, of course, melvin says no now spalding gets off with Fine- and I don't remember all the chart- but no jail time, nothing. It was more or less a slap on the rest for making, threat, but this trial, into play later. So the next step for the detectives is there to convene a grand jury and hell is talking to the media here. no problem talking about this case and in fact, they're, going to convene a grand jury and mel wants to speak at the grand jury, This is unheard of really you don't go in If I had a grand jury, because you can't defend yourself They can provide all the evidence against you, but you don't to counter it. But now

we got an ego as big as his you're ready for this kind of challenge. Oh yes, and. in fact, his lawyer saying, as your attorney I Advising you not to do this the attorney mel has no problem speaking that he wants to do it. So he signs a form turning gives him so that he's telling his attorney look, I'm putting my name down. I am going to speak at this grand jury sure to check out where the crowded sing in theatres July fifteenth based, The best selling book comes a juicy mystery full of romance murder and deadly secrets. Daisy agro jones plays kyar an outsider, who grew up alone in the marshes of north carolina. When she finds herself drawn determine from town. It opens a whole new world possibilities until one of them turns up dead, blue, for the murder, the town once answers, but will the truth set kyar free or condemn her forever pretty

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During his testimony they're trying to get melded slip up, the grand jury is really just for the prosecution has just now. He said so they get to really work on mel, but mel not slipping They also, though, have brought in mary ann shore. Mouse acts during her testimony. She said Why only saw Brenda one time. But then later they asked another question about Brenda and she says for the last time I saw Brenda last time or the only time which is it and prosecution picks up on this and literally ask sir. That and shore has a meltdown, right there in the courtroom. She ends up running for it. She tries to run out of their that that's a new one. I no, you could do that.

The other thing that's really interesting is during this grand jury. Testimony melias asked about his relationship with both Brenda and marianne is also asked about this chloroform that he's used thereof. Gingham about if he'd ever soaked a rag with chloroform and put it over Brenda's mouth. While she was sleeping witches what Brenda had reported to her friend. What does ignacio say about this, this mouse say well mel says that he would use it on himself because he has allergies and and he said sometimes brenda- would use it on herself then he also said that you're playing around. Sometimes you do things this to me. is the equivalent of cosby admitting to buy pills to sedate other women yeah. I mean this is just a ridiculous statement. I have allergies

guess what I've never done, earn soaked arrival chloroform, not myself out. That's what you do when you have allergies. Well, they said at this point. Mel was getting a little nervous, it seems like maybe he felt unsure about where the line of questioning was going. So he started deflecting by talking about his. alcohol issues and a how he had been suicidal here, and god He had joined southeast christian church and Prosecutor started working on that angle saying these God knows what happened: a brenda, schaefer and men responded, God knows everything. He doesn't necessarily tell us everything, but yes, him in the past secure says, did the killer mail and he said no, absolutely not. I did not kill her. I would not have laid a finger on that woman. This something that will come

up again later. Absolutely so,. But they learn from the whole. Grand jury process was mellow. like a very good suspect, and mary Ann seems to know a lot more than she's telling so the next step, for the detectives is, question marianne again error. Will she had said why matter one time, but then she slipped and was talking about the last time she had seen her. So they our questioning her again This is where she seems ready to spill the beans Well, not only does she tell them that she was involved with Brenda's death, but He also agrees to wearing a wire as january nine. Ninety ninety she took part in carrying the body of Brenda so she knows where she sat and its end.

back lot of property, so the feds and law enforcement teller skip mel to admit on audio let's get him to implicate himself, so they talk to plan and they culture so where, brenda's bodies been buried. Going to tell MEL that land has been sold. and I'm really worried that they're going to dig her up and find the body. So she's hockin with mel expressing her concerns about the discovery. the body, because this land has been sold darted out at all gonna call her in for a polygraph were detection test, whatever and mail is saying, You're letting them intimidate you you're, letting them play mind games with you, even goes on to say something to the active its bearing deep

phrasing as a little odd. Says, but what, if they dig it up and Ignore us as believe me, that's shallow that please, we dug is not shallow Don't let it get you rattled. the audio, of course. Of course, this is and you know, ladies, ideas, not that great they cannot hell if he said that place we dug or that place we got, which say the sentence twice now. Place we dug is not shallow or that place we got is not shallow. Well, obviously, is talking about a grave either way, but this is they contention, because they can, hear his words. Clearly, I think it's posterous, I think To me it was clear, but maybe it's because I have better equipment than they did back then, but still

Like you said I I don't get this idea that you can't quite make it out either way their feeling a little concerned about this audio because it was somewhat muffled as the microphone was rubbing up against her shirt. It's not what they were hoping for. Melvin was good not implicating himself and the rest of the audio? He was good adjust to fly ding and saying: don't let them get to you. Don't pressure. You into anything but whole statement about the play they got or doug being not shallow. Sir you pretty much just admitted that you buried a body in a in a deep grave. That's me, that's the only way. I interpret this in the context that its end so I have. No idea how you kid see this any other way. Mary Ann is part of the deal because she's

coming clean about everything that happened. she has to leave police to wear brenda's body is she takes, To the location, they start digging it The next day when actually find Brenda's remains and when they find her. They see that she was bound with four ropes. And she was placed inside several trash bags and she has markings on her body that match the dust. Options that shore described to law enforcement scripts of torture and abuse. malice, arrested hours later on charges of kidnapping, murder, sodomy, sexual abuse, robbery and temper, with evidence, burned, was buried at cave hill cemetery in louisville. Next to her brother, John junior her mother will end up dying

lie thirteenth. Nineteen. Ninety, and her father John senior died february. Sixth, nineteen. Ninety one, that's a terrible the whole for family dad and just a few short years. With mary ends assistance with her testimony, prosecutors feel very confident about. Taking me Not owe to trial, and they have to move this trial to Covington kentucky because The publicity was insane in louisville you can imagine that most, the public thought melts guilty you I'll hang him now, but that's where they ve moved it. So they go to an area. That's not familiar with him will be prosecution and law enforcement release. The audio from the wiretapping to the public so, they were doing their own. guilty in the eyes of the public,

pr movement before the trial, so obviously that got the trial moved because of their, releasing of this audio, but I don't blame. But did you listen to the audio? Yes I mean to me I, stood. What was being said, Anne also understood the context. Absolutely context is everything but the sense, of course, is going to take it out of context when they defend this audio melody Those trial began December. Ninety ninety one, obviously the prosecution comes in I'd say with pretty good pretty good fire power. They have mary ann shores, testimony They have her there. She recount the events of september twenty fourth, nineteen, eighty eight on the stand The trouble, though, is she shows up wearing a many skirt and

she giggles alot, while she's talking about various acts that she's performed with melick? Not oh She also is ill prepared. She doesn't seem to know how to hand the questions very well she's, not wearing proper attire for courtroom. He comes off there on remorseful and just downright offensive two people because of her attitude and laughing. During this I mean We do a true crime podcast and if I, equip even about something not related to the murder and laugh about it. We will receive an email about how we're not being sensitive enough to the material. so imagine being on the stand and ten Defying to a murder, you are involved with and laughing during testimony while she's on the stand. She talks all the acts they committed against Brenda and how she actually took pictures and documented the entire

attack brand. brother, tom and his girlfriend Linda love they both, defied about things that Brenda had told them leading to her disappearance and how she was calling offer engagement to mail but she was letting them know it was over and this in contrast to what men had been saying. Mel was like over together, but He was really only one saying that what is defence do just end because the prosecution seems to have a very good case, although I think One of the issues they have is this prosecutor, in this case, was relatively inexperienced, use pretty good. yeah defense was very seasoned. They attack the wired, audio by saying Shore and may have a safe full of money that they buried and that's what

The shallow thing was which what I mean that's so out of context from what the actual conversation is, but it's enough They also start point: the finger at mary ann sure. It's an easy defence for them, because She came off so poorly on the stand. She knows all the details of this murder, she police to the body and there's no physical evidence tying either back to Brenda, so the best defense is a good offense, Marianne shore did this melvin, Nothing to do with it male sitting in the courtroom, He is serious. and marianne shore giving testimony was giggling and seems not to care even though she's admitting that she was there and she took part

but they dont have any forensic evidence tying mel too, crime. So it's all based on marianne shores, testimony So when it comes down to the jury. Making decision here they are and probably that the price, the commission has a lot to say, but their star witness. is someone that seems very kooky like unreliable and serious. what is this add up to you just said I mean we can sit here and say it. While we know that Male was involved this in that, but if you're the jury and prosecution, marched out this star, witness and they're, giving testimony in their giggling, and they don't know how to answer some of the questions and they don't. The care where they have to frame it for the jury, and the jury has to accept all this evidence and there's molten. Other cases that we ve covered, where its work

an eye witness or what an accessory to the murder, that's pointing the finger and getting a plea or getting immunity. And marianne shore would have gotten the death penalty. Is she worked with law enforcement. This is pointed out, avoiding a death penalty her testimony you, their believe her or you don't well They believe her not to know that she was involved, but they don't believe her enough. to implicate melvin.

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The jury makes their decision and A fine Melvin ignacio, not guilty he's we did of all charges and the jury is asked about. How did you reach this decision there saying now? We don't see any evidence that he was directly involved in this. They also, Said that the recording didn't mean anything because they agreed with the fence it'd. It wasn't in preference to brand is murder. It was, in reference to her body, it was having to do with a safe comment after the x is red. The best christmas as an I ever had this verdict is so shocking that even the judge makes a statement He apologized to the family, to the schaefer family for them injustice and I'll tell you right now: iron, covered so many other cases where people are found guilty

with way less evidence, I'm so rise by this verdict, but. When I look at how it down and what happens in the future. Kind of stand, how they came up with this decision. Well, how many times we say juries said really take their time and be careful because its someone's life on the line and, I think, this case they were careful. They said you didn't meet. The burden of proof require for us to find him guilty, so they had reasonable doubt they had. I think they had more than reasonable doubt the I look at it is the jury their job is anything that the prosecutor could have done differently. Maybe, but I think the the star witness that they had. I think that hamper them and I dont know that he could have

worked with that any differently than he did and it maybe because he was a big green or what have you but It came down to it. I think Marianne shore was what this case in the air because she made a deal she got a few years in prison for evidence. Hampering the crane thing was when, they were asked about this debate skater had originally said. Well, you make it with one fish to get a beggar fish only this case. That's now what happened. They mean deal with a smaller fish, but then the big fish, got away because of this case man. Who had had a lot of money. He was running out of money this trial fees and defence attorney fees were astronomical. But his salesman job that was also taking a hit One of the reasons why he was so adamant to speak at the grand jury was:

because he said his reputation had taken a head That was severely impact. His ability to make money and so ass part of this process. He ended up having to sell his home and in october. First nineteen. Ninety two, the new owners we're having new. carpet installed. Hence so what? They were going through and ripping up the old carpet they found a floor, docked and inside that floor docked because this was covered over. The carpet, a pull it up in side of that is a zip bag of jewelry They also find three roles of thirty five millimeter film taped up in that docked this film has what justin, What has all the photographs from the actual crime it's almost like a snuff film, its

the things that marian shore had described two investigators and on the stand during the trial, but they were, ever able to locate. any of this direct evidence. It shows- Mary Ann is the one behind the camera. Taking pictures of what now is doing to Brenda. A total of a hundred and five pictures of brenda being tortured and right now They said that you can't actually see melvin's face in the pictures because you see his body there are I define features on his body. There you can use to say that's mal woollen, I mean come on. She goes missing here, reporting her missing. There is another woman who says this is all the things that went down. She describes it to a tea and then,

fine photographic evidence in his house. Don't need to see his face anymore. It doesn't matter to me it all all. Is him and got away with murder law. Enforcement, sir, urged his house thoroughly, they even took out light bulbs and light fixtures from ceilings. they were never able to find any evidence, or photographs that she spoke of, now there is evidence that men this he is the murderer, a brenda sue schaefer there no question right now: he was found not guilty, When you consider this new evidence, I would you have one shot to find somebody guilty. On the prosecution too, do their job right, the first time and if they don't it's the only time,

the only chance they get. I'm sure Many people are frustrated hearing this, but that's the law, it's the constitution. It's the fifth amendment, this country we may come across as being very, very harsh on people who get taken to court and are found guilty, but if you are found, not guilty, there's a protection and play it's because of the constitution? it says, person shall be subject for the same offence to be twice pudding: jeopardy of life or limb, so since he was found not guilty, he be taken back to court As for murder and all the charges that he was acquitted on yeah, that's right, sir, all those charges that he hit with that acquitted of he's protected. Now, so it doesn't matter that they have proof that he did this crime justin I think we need to give a little bit more detail of what

and down, and I know this is a horrific crimes but have to talk about it, otherwise people may not understand just how brutal this was and why many people were very very upset knowing that he whispered did from a second trial, oh between the statements made by marianne shore and the photographic evidence We see that she was tethered to agree, coffee table, and their living room Is where melvin raped her and drugged her He had a return, paddle from college that he to beat her with this attack, lasted at least a couple hours eventually Melvin was trying to get marianne to join in with this savage attack.

she claims that she struck Brenda once and that's all she did according to her, who knows how much part she played in this, but she definitely was taking pictures and accessory to the crime, He will end up king Brenda into the bedroom and mary we'll say that she did not follow and this is where he will continue to rape and abuse Brenda and then put clue form over her face and tell She passes out. Continue. Holding that chloroform over her face until she is dead, where's was buried, maillet actually dog that grave well in advance months in advance before he killed Brenda as for the items that are used in this attack

as part of the recording of it. These are items that he had asked marianne shore to collect and so she made sure that everything he would need was there at his place. Even had a list. things that he'd written out all the things that he was going to do to brenda, he literally wrote down how we're going to brutalize her and what who's going to drug her with it a very well documented attack if laws horsemen had only found all of this to the trial, so they couldn't get melvin on any of the charges that he had been hit with. They did have. One thing on him, We remember during the grand jury testimony that he gave, which he didn't need to be there. You know his lawyer had advised him don't talk this. But the process move along Well, while he was there, he

denied being involved. He had committed perjury, And remember, the other trial against doktor spalding where spalding sent him, the threatening letter at that trial, he was also questioned did kill brenda, and he said no so we have multiple. Perjury charges ending against him, because he lied under oath on the stand, multiple times melt indeed guilty to this charge, the sixth I think, is that when he was talking about this heat hold the schaefer family branded died. Peacefully. It's just sick thing to say, after You admitted, and proven that you and tortured somebody for hours before killing them that they died he's fully. Why also

little perturbed at the prosecution for all going after perjury charges here, kentucky? it's against the law to not report a death also theirs. all kinds of regulations on how to dispose of or cremate or bury a body. You have to get a death certificate. go through this process there, so many regulations that they couldn't nailed him on, but I guess perjury was the lowest hanging fruit, Will they get him on the federal perjury and he gets ninety seven months in federal prison with no parole. And three additional years, a supervision after he's, released and brenda's sister said we gotta. Ideal brenda didn't deserve this. She was a good girl, but not dumb with male, yet because he was supposed to be released on october thirty, first, ninety ninety seven

after serving about five years, and october. Twenty third of ninety ninety seven men indicted for first gray perjury. by a jefferson county grand jury. So now this It is going after him and the charges are really It too the trial you were talking about with doktor spot justin. So The federal grand jury was first, they got him on that and then they got him on the eighty nine state trial doktor spalding. mel goes back to prison and He serves nine years in prison on the state, perjury charges. On december? First, two thousand six, though mail was released from prison after serving about half his sentence because of good behaviour. Marianne shore served three years in prison. She was released because A good behaviour shit

dying at age. Fifty four from the heart application. Justin when MEL was torturing Brenda torture her for hours tortured her on a glass coffee table for the most part that's where primarily this attack happened. happened MEL answer were first, two thousand eight, he's in the seventies it so that his health isn't going well, tease struggling to get around and he trips falls into a coffee table here. Cut severely, it said, there's bloody footprints from the coffee table to the kitchen and then back to his bedroom, where he collapse. And then bled out, maybe it's What a justice that he D, I'd from falling into a glass coffee table where he had tortured brenda.

The.

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