I guess I'm doing just find their justin. How are you doing all right tonight's case? is a duty but won't work. Jump right in what are we talking about tonight, we're talking. About the murder of Robert Eric one when winded happen and what? What city? Why. jen DC and

in august, two thousand six. In a nutshell. This case involves this man, who was an attorney. He had just gone the new job needed stay one night, and so couple weeks an advance. He set it up to stay with an ex college body of his who had three roommates. The evening in question, Robert one shows up and he's. Therefore, maybe an hour and then screens are heard, and then, within twenty minutes, nine, when one is called robert, is discovered, dead, vs stabbing someone had stabbed him three times. So it's a very confusing case because this man plan to stay with a friend actually Friends because he knew all three of them, who are all these people that were too because they're all to me, they're all kind of powerful figures in and players in and d c. So

I think you could say there all successful people and robber one he's born a nineteen. Seventy four he graduate The university of pennsylvania, but the key with him, as he attended the college of william and mary Ann, that's. Where he met Joseph price, who is another major player in a story robert one mb? a woman in two thousand to he ended up marrying her the following year, her name's catherine. You. She was also an attorney and they, didn't know each other that long before the roma, started. I mean she liked his voice in. he liked what he saw her and they both sure to get hold of each other, rather quickly calls in setting up mutual events. Joe surprise sees born in eighteen. Seventy one he was close to robert in that, when Robert the attended, the

william and mary, Joseph is the one that took robber and his and around the campus and showed them around and he very quickly became sort of a mentor to robert views, very dave in gay rights? He helped found equality virginia and he was involved in that for a few years. He has a partner in this. Point in time, when we're talking, two thousand six he's been with his part Therefore, a closed its ten years, his name is the bosky he's actually the oldest person. In this case he was born in nineteen sixty six He was senior marking manager for milk, pap and a promotional arm of another company there behind the got milk campaign also when we're talking about equality, Virginia. Dylan ward worked for equality virginia. He dabbled in many different things.

he got his masters of arts in children's literature, is written a number of children's books although I dont know how easy they are defined, he also receive degree in culinary arts, in two thousand six, he earned his license to practice as a massage therapist. So man of any hats, perhaps but in more nurturing fields as compared to price. Yeah and what's interesting is if you look at his background, you look at the kind of things that he was involved in it Doesn't quite indicate his true role in the house in these. we have been, I guess, labelled as a trouble, so you have this couple Joseph price and victors of barsky who are kind of like the loving couple, but then you John ward, who the boar ski has said, is like family except his

role is to be the dominant one in a damn sub relationship with Joseph bryce, Sir Joseph and victor are a thing there are altogether, but ward is kind of not a third wheel but sort of d. the third factor here and they do have a essen m type relationships. war. Is the Dominate or any other ones are they know the way I took it was ward. Is the dominant won an prices the sub? I don't know that divorce case involved with him, but actually but understands the relationship that he has with prize and can there's a part of the family and head mention that they were looking to bring him closer as family, which probably x, Why, even to this day, they all they lived together? Okay, so it's a different.

In the family, we further stories of the others, there's a man and he has five wives. Why think this is just a different type of relationship where you have a man who has to develop His life in the way they interact Is completely different, is a very complicated case. Just an ira. Talking about it before we started and where the first things he said as we to make sure we don't go down too many rabbit halls. So why don't start with laying out what in the night of august. Second, two thousand six, so robert shows up at their house. Andy address is fifteen o nine swan street victor is upstairs watching project runway, whereas Joseph and Dylan are downstairs and greet robert and bring an end to the kitchen, and they have a chat in the kitchen and robert drink. Some work,

or so they do not state that there was any alcohol. They do not state that there was any drugs being used. They said it was a very basic conversation. In fact, when you read the transcripts of the conversation, it seems like very shallow and surface level to the point where I actually had problems that the conversation even happened. There was a sort of weird, but whatever will? I guess it depends? I know people who have to go to ed by nine o clock, I'm one of them, I'm not. I can stay up very late and sometimes they stay up too late, and I don't give very much sleep. But but let's think about He he shows up, they haven't really talked in a long time, we each other. Occasionally They talk, but they dont constantly talk, so he gets there Maybe it's well. We all kind of need to get our sleep

and this is sort of backed up because catherine says who is roberts wife? She says that Robert told her that he would basically do his catching up with Joseph in the morning. So I think the only way to really explain this if we're taking them at their word is to say yeah everyone's going to go to bed soon, so they're making a little bit of small talk and then they'll go their separate and then they had the morning talk. So he shows up at around ten thirty at night. At eleven. There is a new showed news show that on because their statement is the new show was on when I heard the screams b. We now eleven eleven thirty. So they know that this green here happens, sir, time during the new show so. we're guessing. It happens between probably eleven twenty in eleven thirty year somewhere. That timeframe, but

It happened at eleven o one, they don't really say, but if we By neighbour statements because neighbours her noise, to then it would it probably would have happened during the last half of that half hour. You would expect you gotta realized This is a house, but it's what are they call my trap track houses, but there, real house road rail houses, so their sharing walls with their neighbours and you could must consider this. You know town, house or apartment because you don't have any space around you're in your pact and therewith, They were so when there is a loud noise or a scream. People are gonna, hear it when your pact and like this robert, his guests bedroom, is on the second floor of the house, The bottom floor is the kitchen in the living room. Second floor is more bedrooms

and the other bedroom, where victor and Joseph far is up on the third level. Victor and Joseph are the ones that go running and ward comes out of the other better. We need spain is because Dylan war, is also on the second floor. Yes down the hall, what they say is if you go up, the stairs, You run into downwards room first, you run into it first, if you want to get to where what's that you have to go down the hall and then you'll get to his room, but it's on the other side and victor and Joe Joseph or on the upstairs level, and there is another room, but she was out of town and she lived in, but they concern the basement yeah. So we'll just take her out of the equation. She was not there, so victor and Joseph are the first to,

down when ward is actually the closest to the situation so, but he has excuse. He says that before he went to bed he took a sleeping pill which is possible. so they show up- and they see that robert is lacking, bed and he's bleeding, and that's when Joseph tells me her to call nine one. One victor runs back upstairs in calls nine one one Were not exactly sure how much time has passed If we were to say that the scream happened at the very tail and new show so eleven thirty, What time did the nine one? One call common eleven forty nine nineteen minutes, if you're bleeding abed bleeding and dying Erin I promise you. I will call nine when one immediately and not wait. Nineteen agonizing minutes just telling you right now

so on, then I will call you hear victors boris key talking to the I'm on one operator just now, that the nine one one operator doesn't get victors gender and it's a little cringe worthy listening to her refer to him as MA am here's the call it about seven minutes, long, oh and dc motors the number one operator, six, seven, five to the you need police, fire or ambulance. Doing what's wrong man with four this in our house evidently, and they said somebody ok come inside the house now I don't know we heard Are they believing you think I'm leaving somewhat, including in our house where they bleeding from summit to summit, be cautious? calm down. For me, I am a system.

Female and male else is a friend of ours. You said you spend the night with ukraine and who was broken examined the you now because we need. Everyone may become like he's our conscience at all. Now, when you right now, if you breathing it helped me calm down, I'm going to help you, okay, she breathing I'm up here and these dumpsters, I don't know who they are but down. My partner is downstairs with and tell me to go up there and politics the sister she's, ok who can park there. Okay, I'm sending paramedics and a pony okay. Who was important, the fam, I don't know we think of somebody living in triggering the help we heard at the time the door

a man, calm down fifteen o nice warrants renate weber, macaroon approaching a fathom returned home We got him about okay for me to have helped him ralph. You are good, they are they around for you financing, then the police and the paramedics, okay, with this okay, but I needed to do- was go now, says, okay,

the place where, wherever he said there need you to get a dry cloth. Okay, we just apply pressure to that area if he was wherever he was stamping on his body and he would take a towel down his while you're waiting for the paramedics to arrive and just apply pressure, even if the rag or towel is saturated with blood, does get another towel and put it on top but never lifted the first. How often are you holding one wants to get filled that will blow to the level of how incompetent and just apply pressure into the paramedics simple. Yet on the road with the in the heart center? Okay, is he breathing? We have happened around now: ok, you don't like crazy breathing.

help me. Ok, we have happened around man. Ok, we do have not burn out, ok economy and trying to tell your husband or your the other half to just try to keep him calm and talk to them. Ok, people calm and talk to him to someone good field and at the same time Right cloth and just how they might be in the area, my my present holding okay, ok, you must get decorated with blue. Can I get another one get another cow you've been applying on top of that one once again yoda were blue. Need you to apply pressure on the area of the points I can just. How will it be? if the pyramids get there, they should be putting of any more many of the already en route to your location. You don't know who did this? We have no idea get door open, so they you don't know how they got in they were Matthew now is to overthrow the permitted, think it I think it's here, but the thing is a door opened again get in.

I'll make sure the paramedics can get it at home. I was going to go to a private home. An apartment is a home If a home, I feel like an ass wash written off when a person had one of our allies, the person to them, rain october, the nine, I think and he gave me five description of the person that came out no idea. We have no description, we heard we heard the chime, and then we heard the scream from our friend okay and though we came running downstairs, he ran in for you both I have faith in your friend who's out there, though you heard the door open, and then you heard a scream. We didn't. I didn't hear the door open until after the cream and then we ran down the stairs and we heard we are. We have an alarm and the time went off as the invalid reveal anything don't talk. I value your mountaineer man. I want you to do what it should be for nothing

moment: ok, I'm afraid you gotta create the person whose answered with a broken ever thought it. Nowhere in the run the second floor. How kind for some ninety one is an open door for the pair and if you're, not sure of that purchasing a home, and I have no idea. Okay, we have paramedics arrived okay. What time is it? What time is it at the moment? Does twenty three fifty four eleven fifty four mad at people? Yes, I mean crowd If you have of mine that somebody money give here, family hang up, we need them right now, I'm not hanging up. We need help. Hey. They around man, the iron rule. Let me know when you hear the peer medical rebounded minority, the minority, diego. I am I looking out the window and I see nothing. Nobody ok see my

ammo, but the iron route they're coming here. They are too, they are they're they're going downstairs, after a while, if you pay, your windows live here, men, if a guy. What, but that, like a bore me really It is man I'll, be ok

the It doesn't take the emergency personnel very long debate there, because you ve heard it on the call They show up whilst of course, he's on the phone, so call seven minutes it's five minutes inner so that they get their yeah. That's pretty quick

but check this out so weird. He said about ninety minutes, that's it the minimum yeah and I dont think that we think that its nineteen minutes we think it's longer than that. But when, when the emergency services show up Joe price is in his white briefs and dylan ward and victors of worthy are wearing white bathrobes and they all, according to the people that show up, look like they ve been freshly showered. They also don't seem very moved by the situation, especially Joe. They seem very calm. Victor might be the most upset and you can hear him he's pretty upset on that nine. On one call,

de the first m t person to come into the bedroom, he sees that the victims been stabbed and jos standing there not attending to him, and if you heard that nine one call they said, put a towel on it and apply pressure there. the towel in the room, it's not on Robert, it's off to the side and joe- is not applying pressure anywhere or doing anything attending to robert in any such way. It freaks the e m t out so much. That he actually goes around to the other side of the bed, to keep his eye on Joe in Jos, hands to make sure he doesn't have a knife in his hands. because the empty knows there's something wrong with this situation, because there has been a stabbing and nobody's.

Coming up with any useful information of who done it or what happened there. Just saying our friends been stabbed. That was sort of interesting observation. Another thing that you here on the nine when one call is the fact that he says there is a door chime and he doesn't hear it twice He just says I heard a door chime. There might be somebody in the house, so they have a security system in the house where you know, if you open, the door does indeed Some sort of noise alerting, you'd adores been opened. They claim they hear this chime, but they don't think much of it. well Joe says he hears it and he thinks that it me be their roommate. Sarah, their roommate Sarah coming home, despite She wouldn't be home, but That seems rather odd. I would think if I was I was in my place and I had a roommate

they said- I'm not gonna, be here tonight. I won't see till to morrow or the next day whenever or the day after, and if I heard a chime, the door opening. I think I would go and investigate I think so too. They live in a nice area of Washington DC, but at the same time there is a pretty high crime rate there, They also have you no security fences around their house. I mean there. They also have wooden steps carpeted steps. So anyone knows that you're walking up wooden stairs. There is creeks. There's footsteps: there's a lot of noise. They dont state that they hear in that so Robert is rush. Did george Washington university hospital in foggy bottom witches in downtown washington and

brown dead at twelve fifteen, a m which is august two thousand six, but isn't that they think that he was dead, all right, but you have to have an official time of data, but when the and he showed up they pretty much said this guy looks like he's already dead right either he was dead on scene, but they declared him dead at the hospital because they try to resuscitate him. There's always that chance, so they will work hard and try and resuscitate you. They were unable to revive him. He was gone. That's the great thing about the medical professions. They own just give up you, each of these three in the house, Joseph price, pictures of key and doing ward or I'll take it. for questioning in their separated as they should be,

if somebody came into the house, they have to pass by laptop computers, tvs a bunch of really high and stuff because the house's own by bunch a rich guys and they have to go up the stairs. ass, a door. The first bedroom door go down the hall and then into of a room, and then stabber man, that's lying on a bed and then run away without anyone. Seeing this. ok, so we do give them kind of warning here we will be doing, seeing things about the murder, I'm sure most of audience won't have too much difficulty listening to bed just before and that this will be slightly graphic, because this plays in two possible theories about what happened to this man

you know most of the time we don't go into the details of a murder or things like that, because a lot of times you can just say the person was hit over the head with a hammer or the person was stabbed to death, and that's all you really You know, in this issue really does matter and there's some some graphic sexual things and violent things that happened to Robert that are relevant. So we're gonna talk about all of them give a very similar story. Actually they all say that they heard a screen and they came down and they found robert. all their stories pretty much sink up for the entire night. They do interview differ we as anyone would victor seems to be a little bit more. Oh my gosh what's happened here. dylan ward is more or less like. How did I get to this point? What what's going on

and Joe price. If you read the tree in the scripts or watch any of the interrogation. Videos any one's gonna, have a different impression of how the sky is talking to the police, but anyway, you? U slice it, he is talking down to the police. He absolutely feels he is smarter than them superior. To them. They are wasting his time now, hard to get a red on him. If that time wasting is, I murder this man so therefore get out of my face or its I didn't murder this man and you're, not going after the actual murderer, so get out of my face but either way it get out of my face. He also keeps questioning the police son, where victors whereabouts are, he seems very concerned about victor and why he cannot see victor,

He doesn't seem to ask too much about roberts wellbeing. He makes a few rare. and says to Robert, but doesn't really is to go that direction when he asks if he can see victor the We say no you're free to go, but you can't see victor right now and He pretty much says: well, let victor that I have his attorney coming. There are already lawyering up like in mid interview at the first. You know cortical interrogation, by the police. Personally, that's what you should do shouldn't you know talk to the police without a lawyer if their investigating you so On one side, I kind of applause them for doing the right thing, but on the other side wow they really know their staff and their seemingly on the face of it. Cool.

operating with police, but then turning round and lawyering up immediately, I dont know I'd. Call that a lack of cooperation, but it absolutely They stonewalling tactic, this episode brought to you by peacock bridge ending the original limited series, a friend of the family, on the story of the Jan proper kidnappings from nick and oscar executive producer of the act and candy and direct producer, eliza hip and comes a dark compelling look at the harrowing story through new lands produce which amber burke herself the series stars, anna pack, when jake lacy college hanks LEO Tipton and mckenna grace stream? Now only on peacock take mom to get away from our sponsor racked racket. Ten is the smartest and most rewarding way to shop and save, earned cash back over thirty five hundred stores and every single category like fashion beauty, electronics, homosexuals travelled, dining subscription services and much more membership is free.

And it's really easy to sign up rocketing depend. it's your cash directly into your paypal account or they can send you a check two no brainer. You can earn cash for what you already are shopping for rocketing has fifteen million members who are already saving Are all your shopping at rackets and outcome or get the rackets an app to start saving? Today, that's racket in our aid, hey: u t e n dot com. Joseph price is an attorney you can say what everyone about what kind of an attorney is by it. I think an attorney is probably the best person to know what to do in this situation. And again here: doing up again season detectives who were going to try and trip you out there. Looking for holes in your story you're, looking for holding your armor and whether you're, innocent or guilty, doesn't really matter there.

I have no idea really who you are so you need to protect yourself and then perhaps, if you want to lend support or help to this case, then you can do it through your lawyer, but yet they needed. Do need to protect themselves. I think just an observation I made was when the end two gaiters would leave them in their interrogation room by themselves. Of course, there's the camera running in the audio running the you're just seems dishevelled and in upset dylan seems like I just want to get out of here and Joseph prize, his nodding his head and seems to be going over the knights events and his staff, worry over and over and over again reach forcing it so when the detectives come back in, he can recite it better than he did the first time

that might just be me reading into it, but that's how I took it. The other two, seemed to be as organ Eyes are focused as joseph price, but maybe it's the fact that he's the attorney. shall we go into roberts wounds and what happens him well, Robert one was found in it. a pull out bed. It was a couch that had a full out, for yeah, there's I'm sure that really nice baker and neatly made course at what he was laid. It looked like he had been laid on it. The best way to describe it the examination of him showed that he had been stabbed three times for whatever reason these wounds didn't spill alot of blood it appeared as though the blood just so when internally and state internal like inside the body. I know that sounds odd, because

used to sing movies. Where is someone speed stabbed discos everywhere yeah. What I found very. Serious about these three wounds? Were they were all pretty much identical? They were five inches deep at a particular angle. And there were what two and his kind of his upper chess in one down in his abdomen, but they were all pretty much the same stab wounds. Chances of this.

are pretty slimmed. None because after the first stab you're going to be defending yourself you're going to be moving you're, not going to allow or try not to allow a second stabbing to happen. So for three, almost identical stab wounds to happen. You have to be either incapacitated unconscious or you don't feel pain. Something to that effect right. Someone could have been, or they could have been asleep. For this to happen, some friends, pathologists have said you could be asleep and some could good stab really fast. They do believe this knife: wasn't driven all the way down as a lot of times. The case like you describe it, however, they stabbed and they-

Stabbed in the same exact way, all three times so basically the same depth: and the same angle. So it may have happened very quickly. That's the only way I could put it. I don't think anybody took a measured approach. I don't think this happens slowly. I think it was fast yeah we're yeah, it's it's just kind of odd because even to me, even if you're asleep, that far the second step is going to wake you up? Not third, one probably isn't gonna be about the same as the first two, but again we're just making assumptions and theorizing here now They also found evidence of seamen, and it was around his genital area. The semen was found around and inside of his anus

and the scene was analyze because well, if he was raped, then this might be the identity of the killer, that this can solve the crime right here. But it was found to be his own. It was his own seamen, they swathed his mouth, his genitalia and his anus, and they did not find it on his mouth, but they found it all around in his pelvic region. They also found puncture marks. Possibly from a syringe right and of course, when you have medical personnel working on you, you can get more of these, but there were definitely marks from possibly a syringe, There were inflicted on him before anyone ever worked on him, so it's possible that he was drugs so coarse. They took blood from him and tested it and they didn't find any evidence of what they term date. Rape, drugs, which I we can debate

that term, but essentially a drug use to incapacitate. Someone so someone else can wrap them. Yes, they didn't find evidence of that were other drugs but the way I understand it is they have to know what they're looking for you, can't just run a task and then test for three thousand different things: the others their panel tests and they they tested for the normal things such as opiates barbecue, its stuff like that, but as far as quoting quote, more exotic drugs- they're not gonna, go for that unless specifically told this is why your searching for. So of course you have people who have looked over the drugs they've tested for and then thought well what didn't they test for? Maybe it could be one of these. The trouble with that is, they can't do any more tests, they didn't have enough blood and you would think.

You know we, you find a body out in the middle of a field, that's a week old and they do it toxicology test on and they find stuff at home, but they're looking out a lot of times. In this case they have a fresh body. They would drew a certain amount of blood for it and then either disposed of or ran out of the remaining blood and. they didn't find the drugs they were looking for. They ran out they when they got and the last millilitre they ran more tests and those came back negative so we're dealing with if he was drugged, then he was injected with something that obviously didn't stain system very long or that they failed to test for

knife that was found in the room was tested. In some people's opinion, it didn't appear to be the knife that would have made those wounds. It was technically. You would say that the knife would be too small, because if the night, was eight eight inches and your plunging it in getting a good five inch depth it is hard with an aid to ensure tenant knife, but with a five and a half or five issue and knife you're almost getting that all the way down to the handle. I guess you technically could have used this knife, but it would have been three hard thrust with this to get that deep, because it such a small knife, the other pro What the knife is. It had very little blood on it. It was sitting next to the tao that had very little blood on it. Also the time that was supposed to be used to press on his wounds fibres from now,

tal or found on the knife raw was wearing a t, shirt or some sort of garment now, fibres from that shirt were found on the knife, the tee, But he was wearing was actually a college of william and Mary shirt why your fibres from the towel on the knife, but t shirt? Fibers are not on the knife. Right, and they also tested the cutting edge of the knife, and find any blood on the cutting edge of the knife, It almost seems like this, my not be the knife. You in the murder in it might then wiped on the bloody towel to get it bloody. But this was not the knife used in the actual stabbing, which is weird, is hell but if you're getting rid of the actual murder weapon and leave A you know a dummy then year Can I have any dna or fingerprints

the dummy murder weapon. So maybe some obfuscation there right. It could be something to throw the investigation off. Possibly roberts, laying kind of perfectly on his back and just formal and he has a mouth guard and his mouth like a typical one that I both me and you wear these mouth guards at nice. Guy would grind our teeth at night. So it's one of those bulky, big hard plastic ethan so actually have a very spelt. Little thing, I wear my mind's shitty, but but what we do is we put these in

right before we go to bed or soon before we go to bed. If we're looking at this, what are the chances that someone put this in his mouth? I mean odds. Are he probably put this in his own mouth, correct, yeah, yeah cause, I mean mine fits pretty snug and I don't think I could have somebody else put it in my mouth and actually get it in there like it. Just wouldn't happen that way. I have to actually pop it in there and then bite down on it to get it to. Sit down, so he put this I'm assuming he put this in his mouth himself during their statements, do they say about the events that happened? Don't they say that Robert went to his bedroom and they heard him take a shower, and then they came and then later on is when they heard the screams that sort of the right dylan says he took the sleeping pill and about that time it was about eleven o clock. He heard the shower kick on down the way you so he assumed that.

Robert was taking a shower Robert actually email, there texted his wife, a message there too. He has a blackberry, The very was found in the room. There are two messages that were written, on the blackberry but never sent, who uses a blackberry in two thousand six. I could see it there is actually a theory, about why these messages weren't sent, because you can change the time on the phone and then right a message, and it will be time stamped whatever's on the phone and then you can switch the time back so since they weren't sent. There is a very real possibility that someone else roads Messages out and didn't send them, but had made them so that there is sort of an alibi there oh well we still live at this time, it throws the investigation off

It's the really the only way. I guess you know why would he right messages but not send them. So, let's talk about this. We already said they found seamen. We wanted to save this part for last. As far as the evidence in the room goes because why would there be seamen and why would it be robert seamen now? Why would it be after he took a shower, I mean, if you have that all over you you're, probably going to go, take a shower you're you're not going to take a shower yeah. It's that's kind of my way of saying, is you'd wash up at me. You mike you might take a shower and then go get involved in this. Your situation and be clean for, but then, after that, you're going to go, take showered cleaner. we can take a moment to hear a word from our sponsor audible. Do you love? but find you never had the time to read them. Audible,

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can engage online at the book club hub, Oprah, dot com forward, slash book club club hub at Oprah got com board, slash book club, you can participate and answer questions weekly of your twitter, facebook and instagram. You can read, operas interview with white head in september, issue of the o, further listeners audible com is offering a free, thirty day trial membership go to. Dot com, ford, slash generation. Why, today to start your free trial, yours, or for the generation. Why will get you a free, thirty day, trial and audible, dot com, ford, slash generation? Why audible? come forward, slash generation. Why thank you are the astrogation involved. Looking into roberts passed, they wanted to find out where

it was possible that he had a secret lifestyle or perhaps a secret interest or curiosity that no one knew about or that maybe some people knew about and would come forward with information on now that Robert had died as much as they look. They couldn't find any evidence that Robert was gay or bisexual. All they could find was that while he was a happily man. So that's not to say he wasn't, because people can hide theirs. Humility in, and he is a supporter the gay community also and his friends with these so there's two ways right there that explain how there's a very good chance that he was heterosexual. But then again that's. What we're talking about here is this special night yeah, and one of the keys here is- is he's going to a house of an old college friend who happens to be a

man and has two partners in the house with him, and he's going there alone late at night So there are some that right off the bat say come on. This doesn't make sense, I kind of side way a little, because I mean I am like. Ok, he's going their end spending the night and find him with Seem at all like to me: it's just adds up yeah, you went there for the midnight booty call of some sort. Investigators seem to side with that he's a euro sexual, so they try to figure out. How could he Of his own seamen all over him, if he was not engage in some sexual activity,

with one or more of these other men in the house pulled on. But there is a logical explanation of why he went to this house and not another friends who says he actually reached out to a woman and Joseph to spend the night on this night right, for whatever reason is female friend turned him down, said now. You can't spend the night this night and Joseph didn't so there, is a semi logical explanation of why he went to this house. That's another thing that backs up that he's. it's heterosexual and he's not looking to do anything outside of his normal activities is because he reached out to data from people, and one was a woman. The other was a man yeah. It just worked out that Joseph well Damon said sure, and that was really the only avenue we had if he wanted to stay in town. Exactly and the grind guard You put all this together and we just go with asia heterosexual. Yet then,

Why would he have seen it all from the investigators? Of course they take this place apart pretty much, they find like a cornucopia of sex toys and things like they find whipping instruments they find anal probes. They find nipple clams. They fines and how many after red off- but this all sounds normal to me. If there say, ass, an m bondage sick wishing going on in the household. It doesn't seem that surprising to me if you know that right, but I would say that there are a lot of people out there who are probably shocked by these kinds, if items, because they don't think about them. This is not something they think about ever so for me, I read about this. I think well that that's what they're up to that There is also something called and arrows tech which is east in device in what it does is you can hook

up different ways to yourself or to a partner and you can remotely stimulate them, and it runs off enable battery and it's not really too expensive or anything they say that this is the kind of thing that could have been hooked up to robert to stimulate him if he were incapacitated and bring him the climax, that could explain why the seamen was there, so But now I'm going back to was he. Willingly doing this or not, and that's the big question is what he willingly incapacitated and told you should do this to me or was he attacked, and this was done to him. That's the millions

the question for me right here. We said we didn't want to go down to me rather hole. So the best thing I think is to talk about were possibly could happen here. It really comes down to. I think they were just talking about him being stimulated. This point I think you have to decide whether that grind guard that mouth guard was put in because he was going to get ready to go to bed or what could possibly been shoved in thereafter or or if he was using it to bite down on while he was being stimulated. Although that's not, one more thing, but I could see it myself feel free to look Videos on this aerostat being used, the people that are using it aren't using anything.

In their mouths to protect themselves. So I think it's because the amount of electrical current that's running through isn't enough to cause a mishap like that to happen, I don't think you're going to cut your tongue for anything. So that is my opinion, as I don't think he would have needed that guard in is if he was going to be doing some play with a guy or a few got any wouldn't be sexy at all to have the mouth garden while you're doing Some would say that they would say that something use at night to prevent your, u grinding, and so you wouldn't associate that with a. sexual act but, as you said when we are talking earlier like well, maybe just a thrifty, yeah I would say, given the amount of item found in the house? I think they could have found of something that was sexier, then his grind guard to buy down on right again. This is assuming that this is a concern, act right and that's where this guy

really hinges on how much involvement did Robert have s and you'll find people that really believe that he was there to be involved in something. and other people would say: that's not robert, Robert one wasn't like that bad. Then we'll go over some more information in here and kind of put it together. So let's talk about what the people in the house because they say- and they ve said this from the beginning- that there was an intruder yes and, as you said, they didn't hear anyone moving around in the house, but they heard the chime, but that wasn't enough to get Joseph to go and look now. Victor says he never heard the chimes, though I think maybe he drifted off if we're take him at his word, but someone would have had to have gotten into the house, so they would have to get through a gate or over a gate and then they'd have to make their way in the house. Now they say that perhaps they forgot to lock the door the back door.

Now that would mean that they would have to have gone through a guy eight or scaled, the fence in the back yard, to get to the back door. and the investigators checked the gate out and I guess it was pretty pollinated at the time and there was dust on the gate and these did not observe any kind of disturbance to that. They did not find any fingerprints. They didn't see that anyone had smudged this poland or any sort of sign of somebody scaling the fence, but maybe they scale that over in the corner, and they just didn't see it and this gate locks on the outside and can be open from the inside by it.

Again, like you said it didn't appear as though the gate of mess with at all and then quite possibly left the door unlocked by The other roommate wasn't going to be there that night and so when the time goes off Joseph thinks? Oh well, maybe she's back that's a big assent That's just seems odd that that's the way they take. It is maybe she's back in pretty casual. So now this intruder comes in through the back door, makes his way through the bottom floor through the kitchen and living room and goes up. The stairs what he hears this now, if Dylan's asleep on a sleeping pill, he's not gonna, hear anyone walking up the stairs, and maybe it's possible that people up on the third floor wouldn't hear somebody walking up the stairs down. On the first floor, its possibility.

But for this murderer to pass by Dylan's room continue down the hall a will hold on, as he goes through the kitchen. He picks up a knife because he's intent on stabbing somebody because that's his whole purpose of being there, because theft and robbery is not part of his plan, apparently because nothing's been stolen, he goes up and picks this one single bedroom and stabs man, that's laying their perfectly still, but here it is. Was he, sleep when he stabbed them. I mean this is how fast, as as men go to sleep, I mean if he was just in the shower and typing up a thing to his wife and then he's asleep. ten minutes later or less, I can fall asleep very quickly takes me about an hour to fall asleep myself. I know people falsely pretty quickly, but it

seems a little odd that he could be in such a deep sleep and sustain three deep stab wounds without moving, so that we go back to the puncture wounds of well it's possible that he was incapacitated or somebody was holding him down, but multiple people would have had to been holding him down. Not one. Where he had been hanker after strapped into something, there is something particular hemorrhaging and a half and when someone to suffocate you cut off your air. He showed a little bit of that. So that's it what vessels in your eyes and stuff are broken because you're gasping for air he didn't have any. bruising or any kind of damage to his throat so he wasn't being strangled, but it's it's possible to get the same effect by putting

a pillow or some sort of gag over somebody's face and their gasping for air right, This is where you know a lot of people think that there had been at least two people, because one person could have been suffocating him while he was being injected with something. That's that that's the theory, but it kind of works because house would he get the hemorrhaging like that. So and of course he he didn't die from suffocation, no he died from the knife wounds he's lying. There he's been per surely suffocated and he's been stimulated. Was this Roderick expectation type deal was this: I've income ass you and I'm now stimulating you and I use the pillow to income. To take your hold you down. While I shot you up with some sort of drug, like

Why was he stimulated this where I can't believe in this intruder theory, because it some weird perverted ninja type situation that I'm just not gonna, buy into how They sneak in incapacitate him and then stick eight him and then murder him. That's that's unheard of I mean who would do that gap? That's the first! I've ever heard of this sort of situation happening in I didn't they get if there was an intruder, why didn't they go after dalen, since he was right at the top of the stairs and if were coming that the stimulation was done by that toy that that electric, whatever narrow stack now the intruder has he asked go into another bedroom. That's occupy its occupied right undetected, undetected and get this. We already said that.

Nice at the scene may not match the wounds it. It doesn't seem to be the right fit. Investigators like we said, tore the whole place apart. They found a cutlery kit and it was in downwards room downward had gone to culinary school, but this kid was missing a knife that knife appeared to be the right size. So, let's just for now say that could have been the murder weapon And would have had to have gone in the two other rooms and light? ninja somehow get an eye damn that they knew how to find in that room to use in this attack doesn't add up something will sort out your head before you get anywhere with that that that just doesn't make any sense so they stick to their story of an intruder. They stick

their story of they heard a time and the backdoor might have been unlocked or left unlocked. There is a all turn of theory of Joseph prices- brother, Michael Michael, that Michael had a key to the apartment or to the house was because Michael had gone into the house and stolen a bunch of items well, Michael, had gotten a key and then given it to a burglar to rob the place so that he could share in the profits yeah. I would have hoped that the change the locks after that happened and well, it's irrelevant, because that happened weeks after the murder and investigators looked into is alibi and everything else and they couldn't come up with any reason to arrest him. Why would like all go in here and should a man up and stimulate him in stab em.

there you have it. It seems very strange that a stranger would, on this particular night, enter this play somehow without leaving any trace outside or inside for that matter or inside and there is a weak bit of evidence for outside. There is a neighbor that says that their sandbox cover had a dent in it from someone stepping on it and that wasn't there that the previous day, but I don't know how much water that holds. So why would someone enter and attack this man? This way I've thought about it and thought about all I can come up with and- and I don't see any real evidence of this, but what? If someone was trying to murder this guest to frame the people in the house? So the intruder is real and is killing this man to frame the people

somebody that hates them, but here's my problem with it just saying it. It sort of makes a little bit of sense because you stimulate him, you make it look like he's, been raped and then he murdered and then who's in the house. There three game in the house, the mother detectives even ed. I can imagine you guys and you're going to come to Jesus tonight like, in other words you need to get on our team case on I'll do siren, I'm happy, not a burglar by it. Here's my logic at work? I dont imagine that I would enter a home that, as a time in continuing to the house I mean is this: is this person that bold that their willing to take that risk that no one's going to check and see just entered the home perceptions scare them away. Personally, I would just assume that the intruder had been their prior. He had been Hiding in a closet or something for hours- and he didn't come in at tat very moment- he can

out you was I hiding in the guest bedroom under the batter, something that then explain the screams right both the intruder came out and killed robert, because there's no way to china. The chimes around the door is, though, that lead outside, so that somebody they're coming or going. I dont believe the chimes happened at all well? I'm just saying you don't go by that, so our yeah yeah that chime git is literally the clocked starting for the intruder theory. This is now going down. Somewhat has entered the home. There are going to make their way up to the room. and we don't know if they grabbed a knife from the house. Because technically we don't know what the murder weapon was. We know,

it was, it was likely a knife. We know probably about what kind of dimensions we're talking about here, but we don't have the murder weapon unless it is the night that was found in the room which is questionable. We do know that it's not then missing knife from the cutlery kit, because that cutlery kit was given to dylan by his mother and she kept that knife. It's a boning knife. She kept it. It never made its way to the house, that's her testimony she did bring it to investigators, so they got a hold of it and were able to check it out. So beer point, though, is from the time of the door chime to v screams, there's not enough time to do all of these acts. It's not a big enough when

Why have a really gotten into that by its true? If you go by the time that the chimes supposedly goes off to the time that he supposedly dead, it seems like a quick amount of time. For all of this to happen. yeah. I mean, if you think about it, there is probably a similar amount of time between their discovery, and I mean the people of at the house their discovery of robert and they're, calling nine one one it could be considered a short amount of time or a large amount of time to paying a witch angle you're looking at its a large amount of time, if you ve discovered someone who's dead and your waiting to call my one one. Yes, a large amount of time, it's a short amount of time. If you're talking about someone who's trying to sneak their way into the house and somehow partially suffocate him and took him what robert partially suffocate rob.

Incapacitate him perform sexual acts on him and then murder him and then depending on whether you believe there should be more blood or not possibly clean up the scene. Somehow lie. The investigators thought the scene was cleaned, felt that there was not enough blood in the bedroom on the ban on the sheets, for the depth of these stab wounds and for the amount of blood on the sheep, its it seems to be very, very little so they need to check and see if there is more blood and room than they can see with their own eyes, so they you something known as Ashley's reagent and here's the problem with it. They don't follow the correct procedures when they use it, so their task

alt, which they seem to find more blood is useless. It cannot be used in a court of law because they bungled past the house's spotless and immaculate as you, you could imagine, and the three men there appear as if their complete clean two of them are wearing robes, the other ones in shorts and they're, not really finding a bloodbath like they would expect Also in one of their statements. They said blood was everywhere, but when you look at it blood's, not everywhere, it was actually very much contained now. Maybe if you got a paper cut on your finger and blood a little bit. You might be like. Oh, my god, I was bleeding profusely when really you weren't, maybe they're exaggerating, but there

blood everywhere for what what you would expect. brought in dogs that can sniff out human blood and they hit upon the drain in the back patio and they say that the hose in the backyard appeared to have been used. It wasn't all rolled up or coiled up, so it's possible that somebody could have gone into the backyard and hose themself off and then the blood from that would have gone down the drain, and that's why the dog hit on it. The dog hit on something else in the house. That just seemed very odd to me. It was event an air vent it, but it didn't really add up to much. Of course, they didn't appear to swab these areas for blood. They didn't appear to follow up on where the this door

had hit on so another miss and the investigation. Maybe everyone listening, I'm sure, can come over their own theories, but when the reasons you listen to us is to see what we think happened, and I'll I'll start with mine, because they think you're good this is good. I, like your well I'll just say this: I think that the reason we can't come up with motives in this case is because there are pieces in this case that we don't have and we can't have them, because their secret and their secret, because people talking if the victim was a part of this or new, any part of what was going on are victims dead, so can't speak. Didn't leave a trail behind for us to follow. The three people in the house are obviously on very good terms with one another and probably very loyal to one another. So if they know anything there are not.

bring it with us either, not to mention the fact that if one goes down, they all go down. It's a built in protection. I think there's no way around that I will say I dont believe the timeline. I dont believe that robert gets there and they have little small talk in the kitchen is given a glass of water fact. I wouldn't be surprised if they had small talk in the kitchen and I'm not saying this is what happened. I'm saying this is a possibility. This is your theory that it's possible that he was given water, but it was spike with something there are things you can add into water me waters very innocuous. You look a wire and it it seems pure, it seems safe,

it's not like an alcoholic beverage or a soda or milk, where you possibly can hide something in it. This is water, but they could have given him wine and spiked at two and just watch the glass, but he may not have accepted alcohol that time. I'm saying water is something that most people are pretty accepting of at any given time. So hey, would you like little their water before you go to bed now sure. So I'm just saying it something that could have happened at taxes, chess and Y see is the next instalment of the award winning anthology series. American horror story created ryan murphy and brad fell chuck with to all. Episodes airing each week it promised to be a season like no other it s, an Y see stars returning favorites like Zachary window and Billy lord along with them, faces, including Russell Toby and Charlie carver, something Evil is coming at boxes,

yes and Y, see premiers october nineteenth on ethics stream on hulu. Now I guess my point here is that whatever was going on and I think if you are going to be stimulating somebody, whether its with their ok or against their will and and I'll just say, I think it's against his will, because you can say it looks odd that straight man is going to a house with three game in who live there. But I don't think he has any hang ups about it. I don't think he looks at it that way. There are people who will judge that situation. I understand that, but other people like myself, will look at it and say: no, I you know people are people, you can't just say, oh well, it's going to be too weird that I'm there I think it would actually have been. It would have been

stranger, if he had gone to the woman's house is a married man. If you had gone and stay with a woman, I can see the so anyway. If he, if this is happening against his will, I think it happens quickly. now. How do we explain? Why stimulated but then murdered and the only way can get. There is if they think, whoever they are in and I'm not even convinced. It's all three. I think that there was a slip up here. There is a misunderstanding that they thought possibly the he was dying and what I didn't want him to die from something other than what intruder might do to him, because now they need to cover their butts, so, whether he's dying from the spiked drink or whether he's dying from things that a they have injected him with most likely injected him with, but either way, if whether he

pathway passed out from being smothered or- and I know some people would say? Oh well, can't you just check his breathing. Can't you listen to his chest. I'm just saying people can panic yeah, and say it feels to me, like the murders, a cover up a cover up for some acts that were performed with him, that you know if he went away from could be damning or, like I said most likely, is they thought that they were killing him and then thought wall stab him and then with claim an intruder and, like I said, I'm not even convinced that all three were involved. That's the trick is who would be involved in this and we know we can speculate all we want. It seems to me like his aboard he just based on the phone call he seems convincing to me. If I was going to pick someone who I didn't think was

that all. I would think it was the bosky. But what do I know all I know is it doesn't make any sense that an intruder was there because they would have to go and get items the way from another room. Now you could say: well, maybe they brought the knife with them. Okay, how do they stimulate him? Then? How do you stimulate a guy against his will? And I I kind of agree with the officers. I think they would have needed the his eastham unit, the er stack they do this. I am sure there are other ways, but if once we're talking about stimulation, I'm sorry I just can't imagine someone break in the house or entering the house, unlawfully and stimulating this man and in killing him. I just don't see that so to me, I dont know exactly how it went down, but I am convinced that those people inside the house

one or more of them is guilty of this crime. I would agree with that last statement. I think somebody House knows or committed this crime I get there in a different way. I feel he showed up and. I've fluctuate on whether this was again his will or not. I could side with. I think he went there with the intention of engaging in a sexual act was somebody in this house. And it started off right off the bat and he was involved with this. a person which ever one it was and. These three men are in a relationship with each other and they have been together.

for very long. I personally think emotions run pretty deep and if one of them got involved with robert, regardless of consent or not, the other could have become very jealous and decided that they weren't cool with what happened and what went down and after the act was over and Robert was going to bed. So you owe it to me The suffocation in the stimulus cotta goes into a sort of in an erotic, fixation or If it was against his will, then you bring in the puncture wounds and, ketamine or whatever kind of drug. You can imagine that my incapacity him, but I almost feel One of the other ones was not cool with these actions and instead of

Unleashing on their loved one day unleashed on the other man, but that's just our speculation on this. How this goes down But please notice that neither one of us think that the perverted ninja did this, because it just doesn't work. Yeah I've been going off of your theory. You could go back and speculate that back in their college days. What, if Joseph seduced him And then he shows up years later hang out and then just says something like you know how about something for old time's sake. I've got. You know I got so that we can try. I mean who knows it s, this speculation. I can't I can't say what was consenting or not, but I just feel like

somebody in there was either jealous or angry and in perpetrated the crime? I that's my very straightforward. It's a crime of passion, sort of thing, but I can totally by its a cover up. Oh well. We we shot him up with too much of this drug and we're gonna get caught for that. So will do something else with it. I dont believe in all of the cover up that I've heard when they go through the evidence. They say this must have been washed away. This must be covered up because I don't think there is

a clean up going on, as people have said, that she is my own opinion. Reading the difference, statements by a different pathologists and other people have looked at it. I think that it's quite possible, yes, that we don't have the real knife. We don't have the murder weapon by it. I sighed with I dont think there was a lot of blood clean up, but I could see, since all these people were showered that to me, combined with the timeline just makes them look really guilty and I can see why it didn't take them very long to focus on them, and then they had to have been involved that that's my thing he had to have been incapacitated for them to stab him in this way, because he just would have fought back and that would have come out another way now, if he's lang perfectly still on his back.

sure. Maybe there is a lot of blood coming out of these wounds and under the bed it's just pouring back into his body. That's a possibility. The house was immaculate. They keep a very clean house

I dont know if you know if they bungled the test for blood and there it is. You can't argue that they cleaned it up or not. At that point, I know when it goes a trial that they totally dismantled. The states case that there was a clean up involved and they are very aggressive about that and I think they won the argument whether or not it's true. I can't tell you, but I see how this could have happened if he's completely incapacitated on his back, not moving in somebody is driving a knife and him over and over again in the same exact way. Another statement from Joseph, though, was I touch

The knife, and if you don't find any dna from the intruder, it's probably because he was wearing gloves, that statement is bad all over. I will say this: Joseph price is a very quick witted intelligent person you can tell by the way he he presents himself, you can tell by the way he speaks to the police. He s pretty much treats others like their idiots. Half the time cause he's a very smart guy, so I could see his mind working so fast that he wants to give excuses for things that haven't even been brought up yet the backdoor might have been unlocked. You might not.

In their dna because they might have been wearing gloves, he's already coming up with answers for questions that they have not asked him. I personally think it doesn't look good, but at the same time I I know people like him. I know people that are very fast, very fast thinkers yeah, but it's not a very good fast thinker in this case, because, if you're doing the investigating for the investigators now they're looking at you thinking, where are you coming up with your answers? you need a let them do the investigating they'll ask you the questions. You just answer the questions or not answer them. Will you come up with why they may not find a print somewhere at just doesn't sound very good to me. That sounds like you're already made

excuses and when you say I touched the murder weapon, you might find my fingerprint or dna on it. There you're already giving them the answer of why they're gonna find that on there now robert wasn't a very large guy, so I could also see him not moving, because perhaps he was held down against his will right. I mean, if he's five foot three and he's about one hundred and fifty pounds so yeah again, I would say we're both in agreement, this wasn't one person that did this right now, but in your theory, it may have been in a way what it lets say its consenting will then they could of reach,

strained him somehow with some sort of bondage restraints or he could have been consenting to yes, shoot me up with whatever drug to make me feel good and then do this to me. Maybe it wasn't exactly a shoot me up with the drug to incapacitate me, but shoot me up with the drug. That's going to enhance my experience and then it ends up incapacitating him. Yeah just seems weird, because there's nothing in his past about injections, yeah, any kind of you know like this drug use, so it just seems out of character for him. The whole thing seems out of character, definitely right, so whether

if he was hiding some part of himself yet that is in question, I suppose, but they they couldn't find evidence of it. I just I don't know how he gets from supposedly taking a shower to lying dead on this pull out. Bed just doesn't make any sense. So what happens to these three men when they get charged and hauled into court? We could do an episode just on the court's stuff. We're not going to do that. Will summarize, it would essentially happens? Is investigators get cold on charging them with murder and its because they can't come up with, is not just a motive? They can't come up with the scenario the cap put it together. They really can't they can say these people in the house were very suspicious. They said that they act did it doesn't make any sense other then these are the killers or

Some of them are, but they can't really put a case together for murder, so they buy. Seventeen council, what amounts to obstruction of justice, but one of the other reasons why the prosecutor camp put together a scenario or theory is because the defence is pulling motions and telling the judge. We need to know exactly what they're going to charge these guys with exact We the scenario, so we can defend against it and the judge forces the prosecutors hand of you needed

need to deliver sooner than later, because the defences going to claim that they do not have enough time to defend the case. So the defense was on the offensive immediately enforcing the hand of the judge and the prosecutor to come up with charges in everything, so they could present a decent defence, and so, at that point the prosecutor kind of just go on for what they think they can get away with that this point or what they think they can. push through and dropping the major charges, so they leave it where they're setting them aside, because I think it comes down to their forensic evidence. They screwed up the blood test, discover where there was more blood in the room that was botched. They only took a few ccs of blood and they wasted all of that on tests that didn't amount to anything, so they can't prove that he was injected with anything and they can't

Oh, that there was a clean up, not really, and they can't really show a mode of it all here, which would be important, because these aren't mean Joseph price and victors of oars key. Especially these aren't people that. are known to have a bad reputation. I know you can always find people who are detractors, but overall you can't his brain when a court rosy are evil killers. I mean most people aren't going to buy it. So what, with their case consist of? We talked about the unlikely nests of an intruder getting in there, but that doesn't necessarily mean that they did it now in. Another idea is that they did not charge them with murder, because there is no statute of limitations. They might think we could build a stronger case against them later and we don't want double jeopardy now. This cases so old at this point that I apparently there not building

a new case and and going after them, because I would assume that it might have happened already, but they they go. durham, fur tampering with evidence and obstructing justice and these things, and then they try to use the statements that they gave. Night of about you know, during the nine, when one call in during their interrogations with the investigators, but it comes down to is They have a story and they stuck to their story. So, if if they're telling the truth. there wasn't any obstruction of justice if they're lying well Dave stuck to their story, to the point where you can't say that their hiding anything. You can't say that you caught them in a lie because they haven't goofed up. Will they have to show who did what?

what was their involvement in this. Who is doing what so they go through that and they can't find any way to really were that together and that's what the judge ends up saying is I really believe that these people know what happened by wasn't shown in court. Who did why? How did they obstruct justice and all of these items we went through or all disputed the lack of blood. There should have been a lot more blot according to something or other people said now now he bled internally. He was hang on his back and he was stabbed in heat it he bled on the inside and that's why you don't see a lot of blood no anywhere and so on.

These things are disputed and the judge err on the side of caution- and we ve talked about this before, where in a just system, you'd rather see ten guilty men walk than one innocent man go to prison or bewitch death. In this case again, the judge made a really clear. She believes that these people know something and even hinted that one or more than they have been the killer but isn't comfortable, find them guilty on any charge, because there's just there's no story that really fits. So I think that they had exceptional defense attorneys, and I think that the state and the investigators had some missteps. I know I I read some articles where they are alike, while the the police aren't looking for the murderer, the police don't know who the murderer is, and I would say, yeah

harsh on the police. I think they know who the murderer and there are going after any one else, because that's who they believe actually killed them. Now it's up to the prosecutor to charge and Yet the conviction prosecutor was unable to do that. There is real, Well down here I mean they couldn't really put together a case against them, also A twenty million dollar civil suit was brought against the defendants by catherine, one, the life, the wife of robert As we know, civil suits are as difficult to prosecute in a court of law. Suit has a much higher chance of being successful. Well, that's what they say and as far as I know, what they settled out of court, correct, yeah, and we don't know how much money was handed over to catherine by it. It was settled and her attorney was Eric. Holder,

who became attorney general in the abominable eminence straighten. I think that day they had some wonderful lawyers on their defence team and I think that day they were able to shoot down all the allegations. All the theories by the state will again it comes down to the evidence, doesn't seem correct. We don't our stand, the motive behind the murderer or even the stimulation that happen. as we call it? So this is where the most mysterious cases we ve ever covered even started reading up on why this case is bigger than they already is, because it should be huge. This is a real who done it and a wide on it. Yeah and no one has answer. I mean there are many it out there. We ve read a lot of them. We have our own, but even with my site,

My theory, I dont sit here and think along going to argue with or debate with any when I meet on this. That's just my working theory. It's not something! I'm so passionate about that Who else is wrong? It's the best we can come up with a grin, I just argue our guess, but yeah this case should be a lot larger and I've heard it said that it's possibly not as big, because these men are gay. I don't know if that's true, but it. It is strange that this case hasn't blown up and should be a law. figure. I see this and I compare to the Michael petersen case. The darley road here case the ombudsman ramsay case, where you have allegations of a third hardy committing these murders. You have. No real motive. You it's just hard to figure out and The line of thinking of a third party coming in and doing nessus is pretty hard to grasp. So you have to go with.

The parties that are known and involved, I really tried to make the intruder theory work, because when people describe Joseph price and victors of our sky as fine upstanding people, I mean let's take them at their word- please it would be easier, but I just couldn't get that theory to work which is again. Why stimulate a person and then kill them in the y stimulate? And how do you incapacitate him to do these three stabler? like those two things are the sticking points for me. There's a lot of information on this case on the internet. Let me just give you one source on this case. There's a group considers themselves the scooby gang. It's in sorry, if I mispronounced your names a bit, but craig brown steen

johnson, David Greer and Michael Kremlin have a site who murdered robber, juan dot com, and one is spelled w. Oh and ie this sites pretty fantastic. I know it's difficult to navigate. There is a lot of information there. So if you want to read more about this case I would suggest going there. There are also some great articles on the web, so get out there and see if you can figure out who merv robert wrong and why

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