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Calm, slash, Gaeta, BP were text judah, BP, two five hundred five hundred; that's audible, dot, com, slush judah, BP or text gdp to five hundred five hundred to try audible, free for thirty days or more time, audible, dot, com, slash guida beauty. I do tonight Erin, I'm doing pretty good awesome. My fingers all healed up. I got my stitches out early. I was pretty happy other than that this. I think this was pretty highly requested case or if it wasn't, people are pretty excited about it,

I've had friends that have gone on honeymoons and vacations to Aruba and they all come back with very positive store, and they say if you ever gone a vacation, she got Aruba. So tonight's case, natalie holloway. She was just graduated eighteen. She were lived in alabama. She went on a senior I I guess you could call it a class trip or class vacation a high school graduation

yeah they so there was a high school chaperone they're, keeping track of the students, and she goes to Aruba with her friends and they party it up they celebrate and on the final night. She goes out with some boys and the next day, her roommates in her friends and go to the airport, get on the plane and Natalie does not that's kind of where this whole thing starts off right. she's a a very responsible young adult I mean she had straight a's in high school. She was part of a a counseling peer group called the natural helpers in school. She had plans to be a a med student or a doctor she's from a pretty well to do. Fam

So it was, I don't mean it was a little weird dad. She wasn't available to pack her clothes and get on the plane and return home with her friends. so she's missing. So you might wonder what it everyone think about her going on this trip. Her dad was against it yet add, not feel comfortable with her going all the way out to Aruba and I'm sure he had his reasons, it's his daughter to give her some credit and her mother, some credit. There were over one hundred students that went yeah. It was a big big trip right and I think that there is some assumption and I think that's the word to use because, as we find out, later there probably weren't enough eyes on one another, but safety in numbers. Many of the Recent high school graduates took over Carlos and Charlie's yeah. The bar big drinking bar

yeah. They basically took it over. They were the majority in this bar that night. That's were now he was. We know that at least that night that she had gone there. You know in now makes sense. I mean a little scary to think going to another country and are going outside the states, but for all council Mrs Aruba is a fairly safe place. It's not considered! You know it's not like some of the border towns. It's not like your old of other countries. People can visit where you gotta have your guard up. Aruba is sort of a party island. It's where kids go for spring break, it's where kids go to party, and you know some people go just a vacation, but it's it's if the drinking place, so it makes sense, it's probably safer than l a right. Oh I'm sure, on bids probably safer than kansas city yeah cause I'm weird

enough. I never felt threatened door. weird and allay, but there are some streets in Kansas city that I won't walked down at night, she doesn't she doesn't board the plane. The chaperone notices this because that's kind of a big deal and she notifies her parents correct right: they don't notify the police right away, but I do believe that when Beth twitty- which is hello mother when she finds out she drives at some extreme speed. might have been a hundred and twenty miles an hour and she actually

once the police, inset and lets them know that she's driving that fast, I believe, that's how she contacts the the the local authority she needs. She needs some assistance, I suppose, and in her and the husband are pretty much high alert right off. The bat so within well depends on when you consider her disappearance cause. They say that she was unaccounted for after two a m that morning, though, she was last seen, leaving with three boys and a car, so They got down there within a day or two, I think of when of her disappearance yeah, I'm having trouble remembering, but I thought that the bar closed at midnight do not close at midnight or was it later. It depends on the bar. I don't know about that, Juan Carlos and and

always, but I know in Aruba you only need to be eighteen to drink. So if the bars closed at midnight, that would be surprising to me. There are multiple parties going on there tell the early morning, so they might have a curfew for some of the businesses, but they don't have a curfew for public drinking and toxic intoxication, so coarse, the the parents. to head out to Aruba. Her parents have been divorced fur sometime in the meantime, solver classmates can give details on what they know about. What happened? It is said that your in head first- that naturally, when he was gambling with his father and that she had approached him.

and I did hear that some of the women noticed your him because he was he was tall and I I believe they thought he was a good looking guy, so they kind of he kind of caught their eye and they were curious about him, but Natalie's the one that approach tim, and it is said that she invited him to Carlos and that night, oh, you should come out to karlsson. Charlie's meet us there. Even your and says that when he got there he just saw these hot girls yeah dad. But at least the group, a girls were very accepting our being around him and his friends- and we don't necessarily needed, went to read too much of this because we don't. Since this is unsolved case, it's difficult, You know how to put all this together, but I'm sure as we go on, you can form an opinion, but Natalie was doing what she was meant to do you got a river which way she was partying yeah. That's what you do in Aruba,

now see, may have taken it will further than that, the other girls, because it said that she was on the bar and she was placing jello shaw's on her naval. It happens though she was living it out. This is you. Have you look at this she said she would. This was her last night to party before she had to go to quote him quote reality yeah, so I'd hate for it to come across as we're safe and oh, she was a loose woman or there so that it's hard it's difficult to judge someone who's doing this when, as far as we know, she was a very straight student and very responsible, and then she gets this trip of a lifetime. Maybe she just sort of letting things go because her life is transitioning from a high school student into going into the medical field cheese, I have to go to school for a long time. So maybe this is just to her way of just let's,

really take it easy tonight and I'll get back to work tomorrow. She hangs out with your hand in his and his two friends which our brothers, the cowper brothers air, essentially there taking off their they're leaving in the car and natalie like let's go party it. You know it's not some people say that day lure girls or they would try to coax girls to come out with them or they were more deceptive or deceiving but in this case it almost sounds like they were all cool. They were all partying, an natalie left completely her own free, will without deception. With these with these boys and some of her add girlfriends and in peace, and her party were a little They didn't want her to go. She decline that she was ok with a shell. right now, I'm gonna go on go party, it wasn't as if it was

against her will it wasn't like she was passed out and they were dragging her. It wasn't a against her better judgment or well, yeah. There's a lot said about what, it'd going on with Natalie that night or whether she was approached by him but as I was able to find out in all the footage that was recovered wherever they were his natalie approaching urine knew so it does. It is, though she's the one that initiated contact may have had some sad may have spent some time with other boys too, because was a toothbrush found in her room was tested and there was mailed dna on it and it didn't match urine. She had other roommates in there and I'm sure all of them were you know, I don't know they share. brush well, I'm saying that raise her teeth, bright, I'm satellite yeah exactly is that some of them could have

brought. Another boy, we don't know exactly, you know, but it's that's. What they're there to do? Is there there at a party I believe she also actually asked to drive, because the car belong to one of the cap or brothers yeah. She actually asked to drive. So if you go by the version revenge. Supposedly, what happened was she gave him a job shot from her naval and then she said, buy me a drink and he said: what do you have an? Is she basically asked ammo? What do you want to get me was good and he said bacardi one fifty one and she said a sound yeah that's a seventy five percent alcohol. If she's already been drinking, I'm sure. That's that's proud! like a hammer at this point, so she as she has a shot, and then she has a chaser it's after this said she leaves with him.

in europe, your and even says later that they left the bar together hung out, and then he dropped her off later. We can get into what he says happened that night. Essentially he he says that his first statement is that they laughed they partied and he went and dropped her back off at her hotel in the parking lot, and that was the last he'd seen of her. He said that after she got out of the car she stumbled and staggered the security guards at the hotel assisted her and getting back into the hotel- and that was the last- he saw her that's his initial response when questioned, and that leads to the first arrests in the case because they endeavour

lasting. These two security guards that work at the hotel, yeah but Natalie mother views the hotel footage of the lobby, and there is no footage of the guards or Natalie entering the hotel kind of an odd situation. Why, Why would she not have entered now? There's some speculation of whether the security cameras were working functionally functioning properly that night, but for the most part her mother seems pretty confident that Natalie was not return to the vote, oh- and these two got it. It was confident enough that you know that they released these two guards from the hotel from prison because they realize that that probably didn't happen, and they also cleared urine and his two friends. These two brothers, because they said well, they didn't have anything to do with it. They said so.

yeah? So it's almost like they just let them off the hook real easy, but have, as we know, that's not. How it goes they don't just get let off easy. There brought back up its aspects. I was watching interviews with Natalie mother and she said she questioned your on and he went into an explicit diatribe of all these sex acts. He engaged with her daughter. He he just wanted to be offensive and disgusting. At that point, I don't think he was really are trying to assist in. Locating you know, Natalie. He just wanted to turn the mother off in her questionings about her daughter, I'd. I didn't really. I oughta no mean no parent wants to hear about their child and any of these acts with some strange just something that can turn me off about the kid right off the bat. Well, that just gets her in

than him up even more. I think she starts a look at him, as the number one suspect he's the last one supposedly scene with her when her parents first get and they notify the authorities, the authorities pretty much blow her parents off. They say That happens all the time, your your daughter's, probably on drugs and she'll, sharp and a few days they press the authorities. They don't take them seriously. It's kind of That would be so infuriating to me if a loved one of mine disappeared- and I was trying to report them missing or report, something has happened to them and to be brushed off the way her parents were by by the ngo

gaiters and the police also when, essentially her parents are feeding the police, all the information about witnesses and suspects, yet the police are not doing much with it. And then, when the police say oh yeah, we arrested em, but we released him days later. I can only imagine the the frustration her parents had he's questioned again: and he has a new story instead of dropping her off at the hotel. He he took her to the beach and it was just him and Natalie, not as friends, so it was just him and natalie and its psycho fishermen's hut like a kind of a fisherman area, and he said they went there messed around and then he ended up leaving her there at the beach

each, which is a little weird cause. I mean I guess she could make it back to the hotel from there, but why would you leave her at the beach and not take her home unless she demanded just leave me here, but he says that they went there and after their in paris. Last time I saw her, so his story has now completely shifted from. I dropped her off at the hotel to oh that didn't happen. So now I'm gonna make up a new story. I dropped her off at the beach Meanwhile, we have fishermen that claim they were in that area at that same time a night and they didn't see anybody. These are the fishermen. We don't know you know they. They might have been going, maybe Natalie and and your on weren't there. very long? It's not they definitely weren't there. It's just it's unlikely. They spent a large amount of time there. If these fishermen hadn't seen them

There is another sort of aside story about this area on the beach another lady name tracy alan, whose from Colorado she was there in Aruba and she went to this area of the beach. In the morning she was out. Looking for sea shells are doing whatever she was doing and a man assaulted her. He tried to drag her into car found this man like she escaped and they found this man. Essentially he was yet he tried to kidnap and rape her and this man was arrested and then let go by the authorities. Tracy has pretty much been told. Oh yeah, he was released. He was let out so there you go. It doesn't seem too.

be a big the local authorities don't seem to want to really keep people in jail for very long. I don't know what kind of crimes they think are important to enforce their, maybe if you're, stealing or you're, drunk in public they'll arrest you and put you in jail for that. But if you are I suspected a murder kidnapping. It seems that they go a little lighter on you than they should, because this man ended up fleeing to colombia or somewhere in south america, a known rapist they let him leave. Tracy, actually had a theory that, if you're on had left Natalie on this beach that this same man that had attacked her might have gotten to Natalie just interesting little side, but The other alternate theories that that he didn't that you're in vander or slow wasn't involved in her disappearance. These these have to do with. Yes, could have been somewhat

he. It could have been that she wanted to run away that chief, that this whole planning, medical school, the straight aid It's all a result of her mothers, hard line that she added that she had a toe and at now that she could she was able to get out. She could get away the trouble with these things on the face of it is that eurobonds slowed actually says that he was with her yak and there were witnesses that saw them leave together in the car. They was a honda. It just doesn't make sense that there would be all the inn, and it also doesn't make sense to me in the fact that she was part that much there are so many people saw her getting inebriated there's no way he was playing to flee that she would do so drunk it it doesn't you would. You would think that it would be better planned. How did she flee? I mean she would have had to have gotten a fake. I d,

I bought an alternate plane ticket, or is she just hiding in Aruba? I mean that it just doesn't make sense that she was a runaway that she was trying to get away from her parents or whatever. I don't. I don't like that theory at all. I don't like the theory that she just wanted to leave. She had a good life with her family and there was no evidence that she was unhappy before this event. Yeah there was a witness that said they saw her copying her. Passport, which is something you might do if you're worried about your passport going missing, you'd have a back up, but really I am trying to say. Is I dont you when I looked into these alternate there? Is they just really didn't make sense? Given that your

and was tied to her early on from most of the witness statements that he was the one that she was wine to be with that night and day and he's the one that she left with. It is established that they were together that night pants down and he changes history, three a lot alonso. Why would he changes story, but in none of these stories, as he ever say, I wasn't with her that night, so even your in his telling you. I was with her whether you think he was the you. No response for her going missing or not he's taking the credit for being with her. He sang I was with her. Now there is a another guy that actually tries to back up your story. His name is Steve is a. He goes by dj. Diablo he's a popular dj on the island and he's dead. rivers number one dj and he said

lady days all night long at these hot spots and he comes forward and gives, His statement saying no, I saw I saw them drop her off. You know, go leave together and get dropped off, but as soon as the authorities try to vet steve's story, they say well. Were you at Carlos and charlies that night and he says no there's other witnesses that put him there that night. So he says he wasn't there, but he definitely was there.

but somehow he was able to see them drop them off at the hotel it just it's. His story doesn't match up at all, and so the authorities kind of focused on him. But then they pray much say his statements are useless and he was probably on so many drugs or so drunk that night that he can't even tell us what really happened. One more thing about the investigation that I think they totally botched was there were simple things: they could have done to start excluding people too figure out what had happened. For instance, her roommates back at the hotel, Natalie's room key was actually used three times during the night to enter and leave the hotel room. Said that, while they probably swapped room keys her in.

if her room mates, probably switched room keys. But at no point did they ask the girls which room key. Did you have it's a real simple thing? Did you guys swapped? They were never questioned so little things like That, I think, would be detective work. Wanna one never happened. I wouldn't be surprised if thirty. So well, Natalie ok was used in the room that night, sir. She had then back at a hotel at taxes yes and Y see is the next instalment of the award winning anthology series. American horror story created ryan murphy and brad fell chuck with to all episodes airing each week. It promised to be a season like no other It s an y, see stars returning favorites like Zachary window and Billy lord, along with some fresh says, including Russell Toby and Charlie carver, something evil is coming affects us, age. S and Y see premiers october nineteenth on ethics stream on hulu. Think of the law

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did they hold him for a little while they questioned him and then they release him and I just seems to be kind of the way the authorities and ruby function, especially with this other man that was accused with the tracy incident. Is they rested, em and then released him catch and release? I guess you want to call it. Other people have taken focus on him and there is a a sting operation was it a undercover reporter that did this there's a very popular reporter in the netherlands he's actually approached by a gentleman. Who's a cell, professed businessmen who says that he met your in bonds. Slowed, add the I believe it like a see no, and that we saw me recognized him bed. He know

this language in aruba- that maybe perhaps you know a lot of people specially tourist won't know, and so he can speak to urine and in I guess you could say private. In the open and he calls a murderer to his face He says it in a way that sort of humorous- I guess or something like that words is not. But it's almost like a little hey. I know about you, takes one, no one kind yea, lighter like that, might be like hey I'm kind of a criminal myself. So you know little nod to you said he doesn't spend that much time with them and then heads often goes to sit somewhere, but he said your and quickly night, you known not too much time actually goes over and sits with them. It starts chat nam. what this guy says that he didn't get to know urine for any other purpose than to get him to spill. The beans yeah yeah, but he said,

That is in the process of getting to know him. So the sky, the guy that gets to know your in his name, is Patrick an he decides to tell your That is not interested that he does not want to hear about natalie holloway, its believed that this gets neurons attention, because everybody I mean, if he's just out somewhere with in a few minutes be party asking like hey what would happen to that girl does what is known for yeah they're, not fraid to ask him that you know what happened, and so here's this guy saying na dude list talk about selling marijuana or something I don't want to talk about. Natalie, that's how he gets supposedly his trust. This Patrick guy goes to this. This guy. That has this show his name's peter de vries, Peter de vries. Is he considers himself an investigative reporter. He likes to look into an

cases and he's a big deal over there, so they set em up. They set up patrick with this range rover. That's just decked out with hidden cameras and and microphones. They basically said It's it's a recording studio on wheels and it is yet so. In other words, if, if you're in the voice drops down to a whisper, they won't even miss that it they, they will catch anything and everything every little breath you name it. They set it up to where he picks up urine with this really fancy range rover and, of course, Jauron seems very impressed right off the bat and compliments him on it, and it's during this ride. After he's made this deal with Peter de vries that Patrick finally

ask sam says what happened he goes. I am from Aruba. I know the beach. What happened your and says? I know what happened. I was there and he proceeds to give yet another story now. What's interesting about this story, is that it's very similar to the second story that he's on the beach with the and he says that she's lips her hand down at his pants and that there's starting to make out, but then she starts to go into a sort of an apple exceed seizure, simple thing convulsing, and that she just she's looking pale. She hasn't look right. He makes it sound like she dies and that internal he's worried about it, because he's worry about what will happen to him. So his first thought is: he asked to get rid of a body, so he says he calls his friend the downs

I hope that here he has a friend that owns about a very good friend cause. He said it's not his parents, he doesn't call his parents, he calls a friend, and he says it's a friend that he owes his life to now and that he'll never give up his name. He'll take his to the great yeah, that's the original story, an end so on this right. He does give the guy's name, but he says that if you take someone two miles into the ocean and dump them they're not likely to be found at ease. He tell he says to Patrick, I dont think shower be found.

yeah he he shall never be found. I don't think so. Anyway, I mean in this whole interview is out on youtube. You can watch the whole thing and it's subtitled, because they're they're, they're speaking and you know they're speaking, dutch translated in multiple different languages, but the english subtitles are laid on top of it. On the youtube video I saw, he doesn't say I killed her and dumped her body he's a little bit more vague, but he definitely says I know what happened and they're never going to find her, and it is a big relief to me that that is in the past,

now and I can move on with my life and essentially the reporter guy is qana given him a high five, an egg in a mom I'll ride, that's great for you, man and he's not being interrogated in this, isn't a confession. This is him talking very nonchalantly about the night in some people interpret this as well, he just being a d bag and he just talking up a story to show off, but when you listen to whom it is hard to not take it seriously cause it's not a forced discussion- it's not it's very candid while on this rightly he doesn't get all the answers out of urine, but they end up going for another ride later and he presses them again. Your and finally gives up the name. this man that he talks about is someone that he's known for a long time, but it's it's a guide that wasn't in a room at the time

He was actually in the netherlands, and they end. Then they thought will maybe it's there, someone else with that same name, I I will stop there. I just don't think, given the guy like, I just don't think that you'd have to people that name guy named diary rodriguez, that's his friend but Diary is not in a room at the time, every time your and speaks about his involvement with natalie that evening, its it seems like it's to pack applies, but with interesting. Here is that he says that she has this seizure or these convulsions. This is something that

at some point. The investigators were actually ask the parents of nellie holloway that if she's ever experience something like that before which I find that interesting- that that something that comes up both with the investigators and in your story, I think yourn had to have mentioned it to the investigators at some point. Have you pull it out of thin air yeah, so he's in the range rover yeah, he basis confesses to being there when she dies yeah, but at some point patrick asks him. Are you sure she was dead and he said you die? She wasn't moving and while he waited for his friend to get there to have his friend dispose of her body. He says she didn't move the whole time and he said well. Did your friend check, he said gay re looked at her and she didn't. She wasn't doing anything crazy, but you never actually got down and checked, and

he said no, so he said there is a possibility that when she was job she was still alive, and your and admitted that yeah it's there is a possibility that she could have been alive when she was dumped into the ocean. Why? I would stress that one urine doesn't actually state that he killed her in these confessions. You could say that he could have committed some sort of crime by not getting her help. That begin. That gets into more of that's an option for law enforcement. There's nothing sure about that. and they certainly didn't seem bought while they arrested him and they at one point they did hold him for awhile by law. They can do that. They didn't really seem to be. They didn't seem to think, at least in my estimation, that your and was truly guilty that I almost got the feeling that they more I said well, something happened, tourists probably related to her alcohol or drugs, and that

he may have been around once when she died, but doesn't necessarily mean that he did it right failing because they, even when their they bring, that the parents come back to a robot after these, these guys are arrested again, but. they're, not they're, not arrested for very long, because when the parents are there, there questioned and they start asking about how you know: she's a loose girl, she's doing drugs. If she's had any seizures, and by the next day there there let out again, so they don't seem to be very intent on really making a case against your and I dont know if they act. Here's here's the sick thing is, I don't know if they felt tat, he had nothing to do with it or, if they just didn't, feel like going after him for the crime,

and your father might have played a factor in that cause. Your father is a judge in Aruba connections and ties now something dad I just it's one of those things where I dont know how high they went after him. If their motive was, he had nothing to do with it or saw what an american girl disappeared and we're not we're not going to do much about it. I'm also a dj diablo had access to boats, he had party boats a loose connection there yeah, because the question is how would he get access to a boat? I know that they check to see if anything was stolen. That night, the only thing they and that was stolen was a fish trap out of one of these fish sheds these fish shacks. It's thought that her body could be placed in that and it can be dumped over the side off of a boat, and it would go right to the bottom and it wouldn't wash up anywhere. It would sink

and this is something that comes up. So we didn't go into this earlier by there's a massive search that takes place both in and by arr by land by sea. It's to try and find any evidence of her anywhere to see if they can find her. They they brought in dutch fighter planes to scan the area and in search around the island, but this fish seems like an interesting idea and there's a gentleman who lost is he lost his daughter in a murderer and two? I believe it's unsolved to this day. yet this guy's name is TIM miller and he lost his daughter and because he felt like heated do enough. In that case, in his own daughters case, he started equity search. They help us find missing persons, essentially right, and so he decides to help out

With the aid of a very wealthy gentleman who has very good underwater equipment, side to do a search using this data that possibly she was put in a fish trap and dumped looking at the currents and looking at the location aware supposedly they had been and were, the vote could have launched from an so they have specific area there. They're going through sonar picks up what looks to be a skull or it actually looks like a fish trap, but there's a skull or something or in it or by it, yeah right or so. It's video, oh it's! but essentially you know, they're they're still images they're looking at and analyzing right and I've seen the image and it does look like a skull. The trouble is, is he he gives the father a call. He calls dave holloway and he says I think we

If found her dave asked them. Oh, how sure are you and he says, I'm nine. I am point nine percent sure and its base on this image. He said I've seen skeletal remains before I know what I'm looking at. So they send a dive teams down and third supposed to give either a thumbs up or a thumbs down when when they see it and confirm whether it is or isn't a body. Fortunately they give thumbs down. It's not a body, that's a big blow to bath into Dave. You have to imagine if their daughters been missing, she's believe dead, but they would like to have a body to bury and being able to recover. The body is got to be a nightmare its. It means that every thing about this case provides answers for them. It's pretty terrible there that the parents are working with this man to search for their daughter and at some point,

her father and ten? Are going off a lead that she was dumped in a well. And it's actually Natalie birthday and her father at the bottom of this well, sifting through trash, putting it in a bucket raising it up, so TIM can dump it. Looking for his daughter and tim was like get out of the whole man like, let's switch places- and I guess it was pretty much at that point that her father gave up like he was broken. You know when you're twenty feet below ground in a hole. Looking for your daughter on her birthday, that was a little too much for him and he he says he left Aruba and never went back and let TIM continue the search without him. So it's kind of heartbreaking that this is

over ten years later and then he pretty much had given up well. Even that's. Why not? When team was conducting that underwater search day, wasn't there because he'd don't even disappointed because of how big this case got They received a lot of tips There is a man named Carlos that ends up contacting tim and saying that basically some roses, and maybe some drug runners or something yeah had been paid to take the body, but they didn't throw the body out at sea. They actually buried it. They actually say we have the arms and part of the torso like we have the remains. Let's go back, allow it cause some the deal is is that he will take a gps local.

Her like a like a tag? He'll, take it and put it where the bodies buried, so they can go and recover the body. I that's when that's when TIM gets a call and then they call back and say, by morning. You'll have her. We have her now near it she's into coolers, because she was in a blanket at a kind of the body kind of fell apart so she's into coolers now and were bringing her to you. So we will come to you, so they thought oh they're coming to managua, but Carlos never shows up and he they dont have his face on video, because that was part of the agreement. It's really bad because he duped everybody. This this man told a story of how he didn't live a very good life and that he thought, maybe by helping with this case, that he could

if make up for some of that and become a better person. But I'll tell you what, if you listen to the audio of him speaking, I mean. Maybe it's because I knew where it was going, but he just it. He said he didn't sound right to me. He didn't I didn't trust he was saying and there's a lot of these stories? They they were contacted many times by people swearing that they knew where she was and that they would help recover, and I think Carlos might have been one of the worst ones because he actually said he wanted no part of the reward he just wanted to do. It

to be a better person. They add another led have another dutchman who said he was a essentially aimed at a drug dealer or undue criminal activities, and he says he witnessed your on dumped the body on the beach, which would have been the merry out beach, where the hotel is now he saw them. Dump the body in a and a construction area, and now we're that construction area used to be is that maria hotel, when the authorities went to the merry out in question them about it, the merry out says that no construction was happening on the beach at that time and that there is no way he could adopt the body there. Yet it's kind of loose with those dates, because if you look at old google images of that area, it looks like there is construction there also Natalie.

Other says that he remembers there being something their construction site of some type. I guess the way the authorities handled this case and the way. Things are run in Aruba. I don't. I don't know if I have much faith that the authorities or that dear city ordinances, might have the actual dates of win. This construction site was formed and when the building went up, I think that that the dates are a little skewed, and I can't I don't know if I believe that did definitely wasn't a construction site there, so he definitely couldn't of seen anything there. I dont totally disregard this. This witness account and this this theory But at the same time, I think you would make a lot more sense if the body was dumped at sea and not on land the

answers of this man, seeing your in and the girl at this place at that time, and I see and altercation and then see him dumped the body it's kind of unlikely. I wish they would vet this. I wish they would take some cadaver dogs there. I wish they would do something to just that. That story that lead again. We see the aruba authorities not doing anything with this leave. I also say that we didn't really go into the cap or brothers too much, and I personally it's because in every scenario I can fly

they don't really seem to be involved. I know there have been some stories circulated out there that perhaps she was involved in some activities with all three of them, but at this point based on the primary testimony, it seems as though it's at the centre of all this, it's urine and its natalie. So for me we could get into speculation, but it that's. It already feels that we have to do some speculation. I think if we start involving this into some sort of some sort of grand sexual act between all all four of them, it just it gets into too much speculation for me and I just don't think we

I have enough information to do that. So, when you get down to it there there has to be some evidence. You know when they say that, there's no there's no body, it's very, very difficult to prosecute someone. Unless perhaps you find a large amount of their blood that can be that they couldn't live without. It is very difficult. So you need some sort of evidence and one of the pieces of evidence that we are aware of, but don't have it is that your in disposed of the shoes? He were that night and there are a number of ideas or theories on why he would have gotten rid of them. He says he threw them down a well, so we don't. We don't have them and somewhat speculate that may be they. They could have used them to match shoeprints that role

somewhere. They say that the area where he supposedly last had issues was two miles from where he needed to go and that he walked home that seem sort it. If he don't know, did you look this is all I heard was he gotten rid of them? But at that point essentially, he probably could gotten rid of everything he own that night cause he had weeks to do it. He wasn't taken into custody right away. He wasn't in there forget it. He was invented, so he had all the time in the world to do whatever he wanted with any of the evidence any of his clothes. I feel like perhaps or something all else on those shoes not sand and that that's probably why he disposed to them. There's a theory out there that he put them with her body as sort of a gamble that if they did finds the by they would know who did it. I actually took it as he was on the beach and he might have left a footprint with the the

ahead of the shoe and that's why he got rid of them because they could match the footprints back to the shoe you here he admitted to being on the beach yeah. You know what I mean so. He could say he left her there I mean just because they found a footprint now that there was a body there at a footprint. Next to it, I guess, it yeah, but he already admitted being there. So I don't. I don't know why to me. It really seems like. Maybe there is blood evidence on the shoes or something because I feel like he took advantage of the situation and he just straight up, assaulted and murdered her. I think I don't think that it was as simple as she just went into convulsions and died. Then he got scared. No, this is not a guy who seems like he gets scared he's already shown. How she is to her parents to authorities he's used to having his way did the only way. I believe his story that she went into convulsions and died is if he drugged her

and she o deed between the alcohol and whatever he gave her, but we don't have a body for an autopsy to do the toxicology report on we don't know. So I don't even know. If I buy that story at all. I I think you're right. I think he just attacked her straight up and and dumped her. I honestly felt that way before he found to have murdered someone else later on. Where, you're on now, while europe is serving time now for a different case. Why should say he ends up killing a woman? I shouldn't say another because we don't know in the first gay week we can speculate, but he goes to prison for it. He goes to Peru. He's hanging out with our Stephanie Flores shields are being murdered and he

please to chile and he is extradited back charged and convicted of the murder of this other woman. I guess it's. One of those things were either. He has a lot of bad luck or he there's a pattern here. Like I always like to point out, this is his m o is he wants to get with women and indeed as you know, we didn't talk about him in his two friends, but that's what they will do as they would. They would hang out with girls and try to have sex with them now, maybe if they rejected the advances that that was a no go with yourn between his confession in the car ride and Now, sitting in a peruvian jail for murdering another woman,

one. I don't have much sympathy for the guy. Nor do I think that his any of his stories are can be justified or validated, because he, he doesn't seem like the type of person that would ever tell the truth. Yet still his day. He will not admit to anything with the Natalie holloway case. the the.

in the late sixteen hundreds the coast of north America became a hotbed of piracy, but american pie. were much more than just armed robbery of the high seas. They were also crucial figures in the growth of the thirteen colonies. That would eventually become the It states I lindsey grant the horse of wonders, show american history tellers. We take you to the events times and people that shaped america and americans. Our values are struggles and our dream, in our latest series. We take you back to the so called golden age of piracy and reveal the true stories behind such mythical figures as blackbeard and captain kidd listen to the age of pirates by following american history, tellers on apple podcast, amazon, music or wherever you get your pot casts within one we eagerly and ad free by joining one replace an apple upon casts, or the one rehab