« The Generation Why Podcast

Ray Gricar - 262

Ray Gricar. April 15, 2005. Lewisburg, Pennsylvania. District Attorney Ray Gricar was known as a focused, capable attorney and was nearing retirement. After serving multiple terms and finding love, he was starting to plan for his new life. With plans to visit his daughter and to visit Europe, it seemed as though life was just where he wanted it to be. But in 2005, Ray decided to take a day off work and travel to Lewisburg, Pennsylvania where he liked to visit the Street of Shops which included an antique store. After hours go by with no word from him, his girlfriend, Patty Fornicola, calls the police. They are able to locate his car, but there's no sign of Ray. After months go by, his work laptop and then its hard drive are located, but both are badly damaged and reveal no answers. As detectives work the case they have difficulty choosing a likely reason for Gricar's disappearance. Was he abducted? Did he walk away to start a new life? Or did he take his own life just as his brother did nine years earlier? With a long list of suspects and possible scenarios, can we figure out what happened to Ray Gricar? See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.
This is an unofficial transcript meant for reference. Accuracy is not guaranteed.
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of episodes listen to buy, with updates from apple and other who know What kind of situations it's good to check and make sure that your subscribed to us tonight's case is a mystery. I know that people love the mystery They love the unanswered questions. This is a disappearance which we ve covered disappearances the past. So what do we do about tonight in tonight, talking about the very popular case of a district attorney rum centre, county pennsylvania by the name of rights greek car and he appeared in two thousand five. After take The day off, work and driving fifty five to sixty miles away too the town of louisbourg pennsylvania. after nine one was called by his girlfriend. authority showed up, they locate his car, but the
strict attorney was nowhere to be found, that's weird and why nay, prosecutor or district attorney goes missing. That's kind of a big deal, because this is a pivotal person in the state and the Please get right on it, so very very odd situation prosecute Just don't go mason like this. ray greek car born re, frank, greek, car october nineteen, forty five. He grew up Cleveland, ohio, animal in ohio, where he studied it for his undergrad, and then you're got his jurists doctorate at case western reserve university. He was a big end in span. He married barbara gray, nineteen sixty nine and nine years later, they adopted a daughter named laura about two years later that Barbara announced that she had gotten a job at penn state and, of course,
penn state say: yeah pretty well known university known for its football programme ray supported his wife and said yeah. Let's move, What was he going to do for work, though I mean he's an attorney. He off to be a stay at home dad while she worked at penn state and she had a very good job, but while there. It was discovered that there is highly skilled attorney, that's now in the in the area and he was offered a job as an assistant district attorney for centre county thee. Strict attorney in centre can I was going to retire There is an election to be held and he and against the guy who is considered a friend. They were politically different, but they were friends this is, I guess, kind of a cool thing is usually of people our political opponents they ricky. through the mud, always innocence thence rain,
opponent like each other, well re won the election and became district attorney and centre county and nineteen, eighty five He would go on to be re elected for more times, as secure. He focus. The law on sex crime and homicides. He had a problem with the death penalty, So any time there was a death penalty case, he would pass that off to one of his partners or somebody else working for him in the state. He and his wife divorced and ninety ninety one ray. was re married in ninety ninety six, but that marriage only lasted five years. After that he would end meeting, a waitress that he was smitten with and he I asked her to marry him and she turned him down, ray was known as cava. Ladies man, he really it's going on dates. He wouldn't ever get married again. In fact, the law
ass relationship. He would have is the woman name patricia foreign color. And he would move in with her. You know nothing Bout penn state there was scandal there that really kicked off in ninety ninety eight, even though it was Much later, when came to a head, ninety ninety eight regular car looked into an incident, happened at penn state, coach by the name of jerry. Sandusky was alleged to have had improper sexual contact with an eleven year old boy. Now what was alleged to have happened was jerry. Sandusky was in the showers with this boy and Sandusky lathered, the boy up with soap, and then old him, I'm going. Squeeze your guts out anyway, the other reported it and greek car was tasked with Looking into this but crime after reviewing everything.
Including what would you say this was sort of like a wire tap yeah. He sent her twice to speak with Sandusky police wired, her up with my phone and listened in recorded the conversation answer Dusky makes a very sick just statement, but he doesn't talk about any of his actions. He just says that he's very sorry for what happened in he wishes. He were dead very, very suspicious and very very incriminating, I would say right, require, looks into this and in the end he decide it's not to move forward with a prosecution because he doesn't feel it would be successful and I'm sure we can all gases to why. But, Some right here have said. Looking back that it looks like there might be some sort of a cover up or a pay off. according to many people that new re greek car,
He was not one to back down and he didn't care who you were, and he wasn't friends with the football team coaches at all. He had no connection or relation to them. the only connection he had at all really was his wife work for penn state. So I'm sure we have people already building it. Spirits he out of this, but will touch more on that later, let's move to early April. He pressed she did a large heroin operation. They say it was the largest one of its kind in at least in the state yeah now briars and they didn't bring down a big I'm drug dealer, but more of a local, dealer so maybe your work in their way up the chain, but they took down the law, go person and everyone below him, including all the drugs, so is a pretty big heroin operation that was busted up, but on a a fifteenth he could
ass his girlfriend at about eleven thirty in the morning and says that he's taking the day off she says that he does this on a regular, occasion were hill play. Hooky just call in sick and hang with her or go on little trips to antiques. and what not yeah. He loved writing in his car and in fact the anti shops that he liked to shop at were at the treat of shops which, as in louisbourg pennsylvania about sixty miles away from his home in belarus anti. So dr, his little red many cooper and down these mountainous roads and go to this little quaint, town and clear his head I guess his girlfriend California cola was at work after that went to the gym and then to the gym. she starts to become concerned because she should have heard from re again by then, but she hadn't so
starts calling in calling and by evening now she's had enough now she's going to call my one one and report her boyfriend missing not really like him to not answer the phone. It's not I came to be out of touch or out of contact the guy's, a damn de he's always in contact. People know where he is at all times now. Some here before he had disappeared once and he was discovered to be. A cleveland indians game. He had had a fight with his wife. It got a he did and he just left and right of the I guess, it's probably five, five and a half hour drive over to cleveland ohio and went to a baseball game knowing this. When his girlfriend calls reports a missing will launch, where's takes us very seriously because he's a dna and one of the places they call is over.
Cleveland, see if he's out a baseball game and they have people they're looking form They find his red many cooper and its. Dark outside the antique shops, but a gravel lot or it I mean a dirt lot. He adds like a bad gravel parking lot, they will process this vehicle and in the end, they discover that all of the fingerprints inside the vehicle belong to re greek car when they go in access to the car they say, there's a strong odour of tobacco or so at smoke, and then they find specks of ash on the floor board of the yeah it's on the driver, side and It doesn't seem too make much sense, because re was known as being an anti smoker. in the sense that he did not like cigarettes, and I get that You ever find my car and their cigarette ashen there. Something happened, ok
I do not let anyone smoke in my car cause I'm pretty much allergic to cigarette smoke. Yeah. They said the only time you catch re. Smoking was once in a while a great while you might seem smoking a cigar, something so the tory they found his phone in the car with dozen miss calls The phone was turned off at the time when they collected it there was no sign of his wallet, his laptop his clothing nothing really else that stood out here. That one thing that came up earlier in this investigation was: why would re have as work laptop with him if he was not go be working in that sir, a little bit up debate, whether he was taking the entire day off or a half day Maybe he left his laptop in his car, so we wouldn't forget it in the morning. So when he went to work, you didn't leave it at home.
but there is a little bit of a debate out there, whether he took the entire day off or use planning on taking a half day off regardless heeded. sharp to work that day They immediately start a search day door to door, knocking talks, raise family will see the area that car was found in they think. It's very reminiscent of his brothers suicide His brother Roy had gone to aid. I guess nature area where there was a river or a stream and parked his car and disappeared it'll be only tat, his body found much later and it took the already. There are three days to locate his brothers body in the miami river in dayton, ohio, the surgeon- don't turn up anything they have bloodhounds. They have a helicopter searching all over the susquehanna river and they just
find anything, the bloodhounds don't pick up a sense. The helicopter, spot anything they test car for blood? Nothing was found, its about three months later in July, two thousand five, when fishermen locate a laptop, think they catch it on a line, Dante yeah and I'm surprised that they didn't just toss it again or throw it away but look at it and they notice that it has a asset tag on it. That show it, belongs to the county so. It's turned over the authorities, but they discover that there's no hard drive in the laptop which is concerning, because if the hard drive was in there, they could possibly get information off of it. There tell them what happened here. Then stay. A hard drive is and and this hard drive turns out to be a hard drive from a desktop computer- not a laptop but
It sends the media into a frenzy and they start reporting that the laptops hard drive has been found. It turns out its unrelated. Now it was icon laptop d hard drive, plugs on the bottom, it slides into a slot, and then set screw that holds in place The chances of this hard drive falling out of the laptop are near impossible. Even if this screw was removed. The hard drive still plugged into the laptop still has things holding it in so it seems intentional that hard drive, was removed and thrown into the river, along with the laptop. the hard drive, is located in the temper of two thousand five by a woman and her kid police. right to work trying to figure out what's on, as they turn it into the f b? I,
Fbi has two different labs: it that take a look at this hard drive and they can't get anything to work on it and they sent it off to a third place that doesn't work, and then they send it onto a place known as crawl on track, which is the, place that was able to get information off the black box six from the space shuttle colombia, which had disintegrated upon re entry. Now the black box is built, to be durable as built to survive craziness and so they were able to get the information offer that even in a damaged way, but a regular laptop he did not have a extra. Durable, laptop of any kind. There pretty fragile and they're not going to stand up to the elements or a river beds not going to happen, so I'm not surprise that they were unable to get any data off
our drive and if you put a hard drive in the water for months it's probably not going to work anymore. Of course, this hard drive was visibly damage so wasn't just in the water that whole time. It was doubly damage so Eric. Through Hell, and it's not a surprising to me either that it doesnt work but with each one of these fines the family, the girlfriend everybody's, getting their hopes up thinking, we might have something here. We may have a piece of evidence or another piece of the puzzle, something to tell us what happened that day. ray greek car, was known as a very private person. Even people who are good friends or dated m or were married to him all set that he was very private and you could it information out, if he didn't want to give it to you so in or to understand right, better in
That would lead to some answers in this investigation that seem to have very little evidence. They Are you talking to family and one First people they talked with was tony greek car, his nephew, this son of his brother Roy, who ed in his own life in Ninety ninety six well tone ray car as soon as he heard that his uncle was missing. He headed depends pennsylvania immediately and he talked them about his father's suicide, about what he knew about his uncle. and die. He would then become basically this ex person for This missing persons case, at least on the family side. They also talk to her girlfriend patty who says He had been so being a lot and very little. our weeks or months, leading up to his disappearance. She, told him that He continues being this tired. He needs to see a doctor
This is a low you start your own time type a thing or if it's a depression, type a thing but she's. Concerned about him and wants him to go see you see a doctor. They speak with. antique shop owners. in some of the other patrons at the store There is a citing of re with a dark hair. smoking, woman and This ties into the cigarette smoke that these in his car and the found on the floor board the siting of him with this woman. It said that their there together, but they're not being affectionate towards each other. There just walk with each other shopping. Looking at antiques, but this isn't camera. This is just people. Remembering think I saw him that day with a woman, and into the witness they weren't even together, all the time. Sometimes they had often different directions and look at and things and then be back up, so it seemed
cash casual. Meanwhile, Oh there's other sightings of him driving around town and as many cooper after the disappearance, but those are ruled out pretty quickly because there's another guy in town that drives a red, many cooper, so you're not a lot of many coopers in this town, so the only other guys now getting a lot of attention. Every time he leaves the house and this is the case for years and years after that appearance is they would get sightings in and the police would have track down. Those leads or those sightings and see if they could confirm them, but ever pan out when this bessie? First got under way the state police said we're not going to handle this, so it was the local police and Bela that handled it. His that's where re was from take a moment
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it six years earlier possible, but The authorities will take his fingerprints and exclude him as re but in its one. More element that comes up that people are excited. They think they are actually found him yeah if you don't look to close it, just a passing glance. He looks just like re in my opinion, but we really start to analyze it. He doesn't really look like em, but I can understand a lot of people thought that was re when his pay Your first showed up even it nephew when he once a search for re He was at a festival like a street festival, and he said every single man they're looked like his uncle There are wearing fleece. Sure you know baseball cap It's very generic look, I guess, and he would see his uncle everywhere, he looked
there was a citing that he was on the Oprah. sitting in the audience it's weird, but she films in Chicago. So it's not that far from where he sat but I don't know why he would go on the per show. If he's why do you know the incognito now we're time the investigation really piles very little data to work with the things? I think that they, Information on that. I find interesting is on April. Or teeth, which is the day before he drove de louisbourg. An acquaintance of raise saw him at raised town lake, which was an hour's drive from his home. In the complete opposite correction of louisbourg, so it was another. Fifty five sixty miles the other direction from his house and this was supposedly a pretty legitimate, citing Can it makes you wonder in,
I know he likes to drive. But why is he driving out just at this time and it really stands out because he went missing so No wonder was he thinking about appearing himself and was thinking by doing it there, or was he just really enjoying the drives? It's really, hard to say what Do also know is that at the time his appeared. He only had eight months left, he was going to retired aged sixty and he was fifty nine at the time, so we're looking at a guy. That's winding down his career, taking cases and not working every day, either he's going to get a substantial pension? He had plans to travel and who things once he retired his girlfriend patty in him had talked about a lot of these ideas of things are going to try to do I've read that he didn't have a lot of savings
or for a one k or other retirement financials. I dont know how true that is, but he did a pension coming to him and he was living in a nice house already yet the house he was living in with his girlfriend patty, was actually a family home of hers, I know that he invested. I think what like sixty some thousand dollars into it. gone to her and her brothers, but she bought them out and they ray, helped put some money into the house to including some house renovation so he didn't need to have a mortgage. He had very little expenses. This is not a guy that was spending money and he wasn't known to socialize very much. In fact, they said, good spot him walking down the hallway, and unless you really tried to flag him down, he would walk right past you, even if you were good friends with them, because he was focused focused on his work, the other, Possibly they were looking at was if he appeared himself
then maybe he went to slovenia, family there, but he has family in the states to well they side to send flyers too the areas of slovenia. They think he might have. up at her. Gone there. They also start sending flyers too, places in europe where he had said that he wanted to visit after retiring, so there they trying everything they can because I don't know whether he jumped to his death weather He walked away. Or whether someone abducted and murdered him so What are some of these theories that we have to deal with when it comes to murder, while the predominant one is he had looked into the sandusky case and not prosecuted, but does a tion there. So people were you're, pretty upset when sand ski and penn state were
going down per se are the whole school is going down. paternal, the coach was beloved by students, a penn state by the people who lived in the area. When he was taken down, they rioted they set cars on fire. They flip them over. They stage protests. This was, very uneasy time? are penalised they lost their official champions, record's dating back, the way to ninety ninety eight. So this and go over very well, I guess the The says that the idea here is that either sandusky or somebody affiliated with them new. at the d, a hat something on his laptop and could come after him they had to knock off array in order to prevent this prosecution jeopardy
the school there. Meanwhile, I'm thinking, while he d prosecute, so was at one of the family members that often because they are upset that he didn't go after sandusky. I mean you can play there both ways but with the Cigarette ashen is car and he's not a smoker and in the summer substantiated sightings of him with this woman that was smoking. Why is he out and about with a star person and we never found his body. So therefore, could they have put him in the vehicle taken off with them, something to that effect right, you could almost imagine that he got into his vehicle, getting ready to leave, and then the woman shows back up any law, as the window and she's smoking and she says to tell him how he is going to have to go with her. Meanwhile, I think whoever was smoking was in his car and his driver's seat and they went to flip
ash out the window and that's when it dropped down, because I don't think if car, what smelled that bad of cigarette smoking. It was somebody outside the car. I think it's a inside the car smoking and then they shut the doors and walk away. It locks in that odor I think the only other way you get that much cigarette odor in the vehicle is if the person smoking is standing outside the vehicle with the window open for a length of time but either way it's very strange because apparently re did not like cigarette smoke. So for some to be smoking right there in front of his face, It seems very, very strange and out of character for him. As far as this connection to penn state goes either as you said it could be. One of them it families was very angry with him and decided to get revenge or the school was trying to protect itself and there were a lot of people at the school that were taken down that had to answer. For what happened. You wonder if there was one
that may be. Re was finally going to prosecute this case, but problem with that? Is There is no evidence of that and so how would someone who could potential he be prosecuted even about it. If other people didn't know about it, people that were closer to re there is there was a hand people that knew about it there the victims, mother and the few police officers that gave her a wire and monitored but eve, The new prosecutor didn't know about it, so it was, it was kept. Pretty hush hush so this idea that he had to be stopped or silence, because he is going to prosecute on this pen say case, it just doesn't make sense? Because there is nothing happening. There is behind the scenes of this happening, but in order stop this process that had begun.
If they wanted to stop it, they would have had to kill the witnesses. The people who were the victims and their that didn't happen so the boys that were being attacked by jerry Sandusky. There are the ones that behind the scenes over these years, we're going in meeting with police and now king off a dossier will There's going to be a replacement. Asking the government that ways not going to stop the government from prosecuting you going out The victims victim intimidation that would be a better avenue anyway tried. jerry Sandusky did call the home of one of the victims. said he wanted to talk and you can only imagine why he was doing that and that's because he knew the pressure was on and he was feeling it but again stopping the da doesn't do anything. That's like saying If I stop this one police officer, I'm good
why there are a lot of police officers lined up behind that one. Another possible reason there. Someone might have wanted him. Dad was a former health angel who had become an fbi informant who says that he murdered re greek car. Basically says he shot him in any caps threw down a shaft, like a mine, shaft, and he says or other bodies down there and that's why he can't just tell them. Where are you is because he's like yeah you find ray and there maybe you don't prosecute me for that. But then your prosecute me for these other bodies. Down there, so he he ass immunity it seems as though the police don't really by his story. That's it. The judgment call, or perhaps they have more information than anybody else has, but it would come down to it? This is something That gained some traction over time, but in the The police just don't buy it and are not giving the guy deal
they don't seem to care to. Have him led them to the ship? if even though one point he got them sort of close, he said, but it is. it against telling them worry where the body is their trial. tie it in two what it re duty you or what crime is tied, ended this who did ray? put behind bars that may You kill him in this. informant doesn't ever seem to come forthwith and we'll tion, and that's why is not taken seriously here, And say it was part of the heroin drug bus. He doesn't say it was. random. Guy that murdered again. Member there's, no there's no next time that he really creates it's just. I did it, but I need immunity. People do weird stuff like this all the time where they met to crimes. I don't know, I guess it's either a fifteen minutes of fame more. They want a book deal. I don't know, I think they should have
gone to the shaft with them just to see what, going on there I understand their scepticism. And the last thing to say about the foul play would be that we still don't know the identity of the woman that he was seen with at four. they thought it was a woman that he was friends with Barbara the she's too, reporter, but then she worked in the press office for the attorney general when they checked in. She was on vacation and she was in new york. In fact, she readily spoke with investigators, and she said: look If anyone saw me out by the antique shops, they know me there, they wouldn't be a brunette It would be. Oh, that's barbara, they know me so that's a dead end, but possible, of course, that this woman, been setting re up. Maybe An attractive woman came long and sir making small talk with him. She could get his are down and then he could be ambushed
We just don't know again what the mode of would be, but that's just the possibility sense even though they attempted to get in contact with by asking you to show herself. Essentially they never worked out then and they waited till two thousand six to try and talk to her really because no one knew about this until two thousand six. They they kept it from the public that have been lost time and if that person was just a casual person that brain by the anti shops. Who knows if she was paying attention or anything to this case now? speaking of the woman, the other idea or the other hypothesis here is that he he lay on his own well if he's with a woman, was he having an affair? Did he take off with this woman, as opposed to I'll play, it was intentional What are some of the other ideas that he just took
off on his own one. The ideas that he's in a witness protection programme its- that a district attorney wooden qualify for one, but I mean let's be honest. If the government wants to put a d in a witness protection program, I'm sure they can do it it's a snowman to say that their they don't qualify they're trying, person. They become a witness to all of that, but I've heard the way witness protection works as they do it temporarily. They don't for the rest of your life they might be. you and new identification, but they're, not going to keep you in witness protection indefinitely. So ray would be put in witness protection and tell whatever was going on the heat was off and then they would allow him to leave witness protection. He would be able to contact his family his girlfriend and what not after that either
I believe that he did moved to slovenia and he had travelled there in the seventies and eighties. Because, as they say, that's where his ancestors came from and he had a lot of interest in slovenia, but looking all of this in the way that he cared about his girlfriend away cared about his daughter. Just didn't seem to ring true. For me at least. they set at one point. His daughter had had an accident out west I think I was a snowboarding accident and and he rushed to the airport to meet up with her. They said he was pale, He was very, very concerned about his daughter. So you have think you know? Why would he just disappear and leave pham behind, even if he wasn't that sociable over person. He did have his a he did have his daughter it just really ring true to me. What do you think justin? I get it took off that one time to go see here, the
cleveland, indians game. I take that as the man just wanted to blossom steam and just get away from a com the home when it comes to him. Taking off if he had a bunch of debt if he had a bunch of issues if bad guys were coming after him. If there was any sort of evidence of any of that, I could buy that he just ran away. Just walked away, took off, but His life seemed to be in order. His life seemed pretty good. He was about to retire. Get a pension. the fbi looked to see if he was moving money around, he wasn't, they checked to see he had been using his the cards they add as bank account information. Nothing so I get it if you're going to disappear, you're you're goin, to hide finances you're going to have different things, but. I don't like this idea because something we
and talked about earlier. But there were searches done on his computer and he had asked around at the office. How do you destroy a hard drive, I'm just then if the guy's Google how to destroy hard drive. I would expect to see her. Do I disappear myself off the hook? You would have that that criminal mindset but people say well, he's a d. He works with criminals. This is knowledge he would have there is also this book called twenty twenty vision that he was a consultant on. That's pretty much a sort of I'm a time travel crime novel. Yet fictional ized version of a real crime that happened at penn state where a woman was murdered, the date that it take place is for fifteen or april fifteenth and that's the same day that rate
appears these and pointed it is that the hero drives east from fictional eyes, stay college and goes into the valley. Well, tat, clearly reg reg ricard did the same thing I don't know how much stock we'll put in that. But there's novel. That has some kind of weird similarities to what he did on his final day. It's such a weird tie, it makes you either think while peace. This, as is in inspiration or his guidelines for his disappear since or this is really weird coincidence. The thing that happened was pieper report at hearing of raise interest in a disappearance case that happened in nineteen. Eighty five, it was, a police chief by the name of MEL wily. He was the clean police chief,
inside of his car his nineteen, eighty, twenty oda, edgewater parking cleveland. They found His clothes folded neatly inside the vehicle, with his belt wallet and idea card stacked on top according to people. In that case, they said that MEL wily was a very private individual. He didn't like but himself very much. Didn't socialize. They never found Then he been gone this entire time now idea where he went, which very similar to what happened with rate recall, so you wonder, it was he inspired by that this dear that he could just disappear again. He's I bet person and private people They don't like to share anything with you, so maybe in the end they dont want to share why they left the final hypothesis. Is he took his own life?
We know his brother had done us in a very similar fashion. We his girlfriend saying that he was sleeping alot possum, from depression. We have this harder I've that's been removed from his laptop and both his lap an hour drive. Were thrown into this river. I get. I'm having trouble? If, if I was, bad guy, and I was coming to kill you, and I knew there was something on your laptop that I didn't want getting out If I would risk drawn lab up in the river- I would probably take it with me and then suppose of you. So the fact that his lab hop was found in the river not to are from the, whereas car was found in the Hard drive had been removed, I'm just going to say I believe that it had to be physically removed. It didn't just fall out raided that I think that
I don't know I don't know what other times we have here, but those are the three main points It's when it comes to suicide, here the whole time I was researching this case, I kept wrestling just as the police. Do was this a walk away. Was this file play, or was this a suicide? and I must say that after doing all this reading all this thinking there really was the one thing that makes the most sense to me even Oh, you can't prove it is the suicide angle and that because dislike point out just then he would have to physically it removed the hard drive. You would have the tool, so he s to remove the hard drive and he asked the damage both the laptop and the hard drive. Now. Why would he do that people keeper up. This idea that, have some incriminating evidence. small business owners protect what you ve built with more than
he customizable insurance coverage options, including commercial otto, general liability and business owners policies plus get personal discounts for business experience prior insurance and more get it in this little as six minutes at progressive commercial dot com, progress, If casualty, insurance, company and affiliates discounts uncovered selections not available in all states, are situations it be joke with people hey if I or if I go missing, destroy my computer right. Let my history delete my browser history, my history and the computer. This is private, individual. There are people that tried to pry and learn more about re because they really liked him. I mean you: can really fine, but who had a bad word about re but use, private, and I think this in searching he bought soft or to delete stuff up. our drive he I had to leave nothing.
That business that he down the laptop is not about hiding anything in particular here it's a private person. He doesn't want you to know what was on there, not because you know maybe if we did find out what goes on there, I'm not sure we find things special he's just up. I've at person. I think you to remove that hard drive to. straw it, so you wouldn't leave anything behind the whole reason. This case continues on, as it does is be. We ve, never found his body and I think it's just dumb, lock It is unfortunate that we never found his body because I built if he threw himself into the squander river. Now do research into what happens to people and the golan rivers. It's you. Really the case that a body will turn up. Sometimes it six days sometimes, It takes hours. Sometimes it takes weeks but today. Most of these bodies turn up, but when they don't it's because they ve gotten into the main current and they get
every doubt a long ways in either going to a large body of water and they are gone through their cycle of going. up and down in the water based on what's happening with the body, decomposing or it gets. to a dam and gets chewed up, but think really. What makes the most sense to me is just the suicide angle, because he was up that person and if raise, really depressed, he's not going to tell you about it. He was very businesslike person who is very focused, and he didn't let stuff out So I think we're looking at the result, the person who try to keep everything private and succeeded I thought it was weird that he wanted to Try the hard drive, because obviously this laptop was assigned to him by- and I t group- usually you herndon laptop back in if there is any less all standing spending. They would
want to make a copy of the hard drive or They will wipe the hard drive and they will take care of your data, for you. I've done this job. If you can't tell He didn't want them to even have that here willing to destroy state property and technically break the law too. Keep his life private eye, problems that they didn't find his body, because this search effort, so a pretty fast minos. There was not a lotta delay their, but one sure if they were looking in the river same night that he went missing it ten days later and who knows how far he could have gotten downriver at that point? Also, if it was on land and they and find them while the elements and animals can take care of a body pretty well. I read, and or of cases where people went into the squander river, and
Sometimes people turned up right away, and sometimes it took weeks and when that happens, they have to investigate to figure out who the person was, and that took time, because this the body after being in the river for weeks, is now pretty sight. So I the bunch of boxes that I put check marks and when it comes to foul play walk away or suicide I have to say that one I'm checking off these boxes foul play got a lot of czech marks because of the abruptly because of his background because of his job I dislike, Are these sandusky trial in that time, because I think that's just what's on everyone's mine, so they want to make that fit. personally I dont think that team Coaches are some sort of mafiosi, those that are calling in hits on DA's that just doesn't jive with me, but Anyone from his past that he's wronged, Hell's angels, heroin dealers,
any kind of murderers, they could definitely off him wanted to. So I have a lot of czech marks in those boxes specially we get down to the the cigarette smoking. Ashen is car it. Looks really bad. The walk away. I dont have a lot of check marks there myself. I dont think that his life, was in such a state that he was, he would just walk off and start a whole new life. He didn't. Take any of his money to do it, so that would mean he would have to rely on somebody else or you'd have to start over which he was right at retirement. I don't know how Feasible, that would be I didn't have a lotta check marks and suicide, either comes to that date, hard drive right. hard drive. Just doesn't add up to me, I think he's the one that remove the hour drive out of that laptop If he did it, then he was the last person there and he
intentionally. Did this and then disappeared? Well I think that was his his final day on earth and we just haven't found his body and that check mark on the hard drive is a big black, huge. Check mark that says that might be. Were I'm heading two now, because that means a lot more than foul play because foul play. Why would was in the middle of throwing his laptop into the river. When somebody cabin to come upon him and kill em, I mean I don't know. It just doesn't add up to me. If he's the one that strong that laptop, which I absolutely think he was denied It just comes down to Occam's razor, I mean. What's the simplest explanation, you have this very private guy who was trying to figure out how to destroy data on his hard drive and he'd been sleeping a lot. He was headed towards retirement his brother. had taken his own life. This
the conversation at one point where he talk to somebody and he told them that he didn't they his brother his own life, and every time he would visit back home in ohio. He would ask the police. Are there any updates on my brother's case, but of course one of the police. There was a suicide. I think there's just so much there that shows that ray a private depressed person who, was at the end, I believe, he took his own life. I have a time really going down any other pass? Now? I literally spent today trying to figure out how am I the hard drive was and why because You know, as I said, private person will hard drive, is the other phrase that keeps popping up here, sir. The case is hard drive and private person, and that's it did. He didn't wanna leave anything behind for you to discover. He doesn't want you to know what happened he took with him. I do in all of the other,
incidences very interesting. What this case- and I Absolutely can go down the other radicals and in their very trusting there very early, You question a lot of things, but I guess it is. It really comes out of the hard drive for me his family had him declared dead in two thousand levin. Six years later and the courts agreed. you have a difficult for his daughter to do that. I'm sure, because throughout the years she had said that she was not going to give up on her dad, but think what changed her mind was after five or six years and dad hadn't contacted her. She they believe in her heart, that of her dad was around, he would have gotten a message to her and she said that just didn't happen, now? I know that there will be people out there that dont, but if her because they'll say well by his so called dying before he was a
the retire. She was able to get more money, but I believe her when she talked about this. I believe what she said was true in allow of her media appearances, I would say hey, please come back we're here for you and people read into that and say well She knows he's alive, No, she just saying please come home. It's a very generic thing to do is say I hope you come home, but people read into it and they feel that she knew something there was something or to it. I don't know but they're. Just please for if he's out there in the world to come home, but they to the conclusion that he's he's never coming back, so or the arm chair detectives. This is a very, very interesting missing persons case
four raise family. This is just heartache that has yet to end.
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Transcript generated on 2022-08-27.