Ray Gricar. April 15, 2005. Lewisburg, Pennsylvania. District Attorney Ray Gricar was known as a focused, capable attorney and was nearing retirement. After serving multiple terms and finding love, he was starting to plan for his new life. With plans to visit his daughter and to visit Europe, it seemed as though life was just where he wanted it to be. But in 2005, Ray decided to take a day off work and travel to Lewisburg, Pennsylvania where he liked to visit the Street of Shops which included an antique store. After hours go by with no word from him, his girlfriend, Patty Fornicola, calls the police. They are able to locate his car, but there's no sign of Ray. After months go by, his work laptop and then its hard drive are located, but both are badly damaged and reveal no answers. As detectives work the case they have difficulty choosing a likely reason for Gricar's disappearance. Was he abducted? Did he walk away to start a new life? Or did he take his own life just as his brother did nine years earlier? With a long list of suspects and possible scenarios, can we figure out what happened to Ray Gricar?
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tonight's case is a mystery.
I know that people love the mystery
They love the unanswered questions. This is a
disappearance which we ve covered disappearances
the past. So what do we do
about tonight in tonight,
talking about the very popular case of a district attorney
rum centre, county pennsylvania by the name of rights
greek car and he
appeared in two thousand five. After take
The day off, work
and driving fifty five to sixty miles away too
the town of louisbourg pennsylvania.
after nine one was called by his girlfriend.
authority showed up, they locate
his car, but the
strict attorney was nowhere to be found, that's weird and why
nay, prosecutor or district attorney goes missing. That's kind of a big deal, because this is a
pivotal person in the state and the
Please get right on it, so
very very odd situation prosecute
Just don't go mason like this.
ray greek car
born re, frank, greek, car october
nineteen, forty five. He grew up
Cleveland, ohio, animal
in ohio, where he studied it for his undergrad, and then
you're got his jurists doctorate at case western reserve university. He was a big end
in span. He married
barbara gray, nineteen sixty nine and
nine years later, they adopted a daughter named laura
about two years later that
Barbara announced that she had gotten a job at penn state and, of course,
penn state say: yeah pretty well known university known for its football programme
ray supported his wife and said yeah. Let's move,
What was he going to do for work, though I mean he's an attorney. He off
to be a stay at home dad while she worked at penn state and she had a very good job, but while
there. It was
discovered that there is
highly skilled attorney, that's now
in the in the area and he was
offered a job as an assistant district attorney for centre county thee.
Strict attorney in centre can
I was going to retire
There is an election to be held and he
and against the guy who is considered a friend. They were
politically different, but they were friends
this is, I guess, kind of a cool thing is usually of people
our political opponents they ricky.
through the mud, always innocence
thence rain,
opponent like each other, well re won the election and
became district attorney and centre county and nineteen, eighty five
He would go on to be re elected for more times, as
secure. He focus.
The law on sex crime
and homicides.
He had a problem with the death penalty,
So any time there was a death penalty case, he
would pass that
off to one of his partners or somebody else working for him in the state.
He and his wife divorced and ninety ninety one ray.
was re married in ninety ninety six, but that marriage only lasted five years. After that he would end
meeting, a waitress that he was smitten with and he
I asked her to marry him and she turned him down,
ray was known as cava. Ladies man, he really
it's going on dates. He wouldn't
ever get married again. In fact, the law
ass relationship. He would have is
the woman name patricia foreign color.
And he would move in with her. You know nothing
Bout penn state there was
scandal there that really
kicked off in ninety ninety eight, even though it was
Much later, when
came to a head,
ninety ninety eight
regular car looked into an incident,
happened at penn state,
coach by the name of jerry. Sandusky was alleged to have had improper sexual contact
with an eleven year old boy. Now what was alleged to have happened was jerry. Sandusky was in the showers with this boy and Sandusky lathered, the boy up with soap, and then
old him, I'm going.
Squeeze your guts out anyway, the
other reported it and
greek car was tasked with
Looking into this
but crime
after reviewing everything.
Including what would you say this was sort of like a wire tap yeah. He sent her twice to speak with Sandusky
police wired, her up with my phone and listened in recorded the conversation answer
Dusky makes a very sick
just statement, but he doesn't talk about
any of his actions. He just says that he's very sorry for what happened in
he wishes. He were dead
very, very suspicious and very very
incriminating, I would say right,
require, looks into this and in the end he decide
it's not to move forward with a prosecution because he doesn't feel it would be successful
and I'm sure we can all gases to why. But,
Some right here have said. Looking back that it looks like there might be some sort of a cover up or a pay off.
according to many people that new re greek car,
He was not one to back down and he didn't care who you were, and he wasn't friends with the
football team coaches at all. He had no connection or relation to them.
the only connection he had at all really was his wife work for penn state. So I'm sure we have people already building it.
Spirits he out of this, but will touch more on that later, let's move
to early April. He pressed
she did a large heroin operation. They say
it was the largest one of its kind in at least in the state yeah
now briars and they didn't bring down a big
I'm drug dealer, but more of a local,
dealer so maybe
your work in their way up the chain, but they took down the law,
go person and everyone below him, including all the drugs, so is a pretty big heroin
operation that was busted up, but on a
a fifteenth he could
ass his girlfriend at about eleven thirty in the morning and says that he's
taking the day off
she says that he does this on a regular,
occasion were hill play. Hooky
just call in sick and hang
with her or go on little trips to antiques.
and what not
yeah. He loved writing in his car and in fact the anti
shops that he liked to shop at were at the
treat of shops which,
as in louisbourg pennsylvania about
sixty miles away from his home in belarus anti. So
dr, his little red many cooper
and down these mountainous roads and go to this little
quaint, town and clear his head
I guess his girlfriend
California cola was at work after that
went to the gym and then
to the gym.
she starts to become concerned because she should have heard from re again by then, but she hadn't so
starts calling in calling and
by evening now she's had enough now she's going to call my one one and report
her boyfriend missing
not really like him to not answer the phone. It's not
I came to be out of touch or out of contact the guy's, a damn de he's always in contact. People know where he is at all times now. Some here
before he had disappeared once
and he was discovered to be.
A cleveland indians game. He had had a fight with his wife. It got a
he did and he just left and right
of the I guess, it's probably
five, five and a half hour drive over to cleveland ohio and went to a baseball game
knowing this. When his girlfriend calls reports a missing will launch,
where's takes us very seriously because he's a dna and
one of the places they call is over.
Cleveland, see if he's out a baseball game and they have people
they're looking form
They find his red many cooper and its.
Dark outside the antique shops,
but a gravel lot or it I mean a dirt lot. He adds like a bad gravel parking lot,
they will process this vehicle and in the end, they discover that all of the fingerprints inside the vehicle belong to re greek car when they go
in access to the car they
say, there's a strong odour of tobacco or so
at smoke, and then they find specks of ash on the floor board of the
yeah it's on the driver, side and
It doesn't seem too
make much sense, because re was known as being an anti smoker.
in the sense that he did not like cigarettes, and I get that
You ever find my car and their cigarette ashen there. Something happened, ok
I do not let anyone smoke in my car cause I'm pretty much allergic to cigarette smoke.
Yeah. They said the only time you catch re. Smoking was once in a while a great while you might seem smoking a cigar, something so
the tory they found his phone
in the car with dozen
miss calls
The phone was turned off at the time when they collected it
there was no sign of his wallet, his laptop his clothing
nothing really else that stood out here. That
one thing that came up earlier in this investigation was: why would re have as work laptop with him if he was not go
be working in that sir, a little bit up
debate, whether he was taking the entire day off or a half day
Maybe he left his laptop in his car, so we wouldn't forget it in the morning. So when he went to work, you didn't leave it at home.
but there is a little bit of a debate out there, whether he took the entire day off or use planning on taking a half day off
regardless heeded.
sharp to work that day
They immediately start a search day
door to door, knocking talks,
raise family will see the area that
car was found in they think.
It's very reminiscent of his brothers suicide
His brother Roy had gone to aid. I guess nature
area where there was a river or a stream and parked his car and disappeared
it'll be only tat, his body found much later and it took the
already. There are three days to locate his brothers body in the miami river in dayton, ohio, the surgeon-
don't turn up anything they have
bloodhounds. They have a helicopter searching all over the susquehanna river and they just
find anything, the bloodhounds don't pick up a sense. The helicopter,
spot anything they test
car for blood? Nothing was found, its
about three months later in July, two thousand five, when
fishermen locate a laptop,
think they catch it on a line, Dante yeah and I'm surprised that they didn't just toss it
again or throw it away but
look at it and they notice that it has a asset tag on it. That show
it, belongs to the county
so. It's turned over the authorities, but they
discover that there's no hard drive in the laptop which is concerning, because if the hard drive was in there, they could possibly get information off of it. There
tell them what happened here. Then
stay. A hard drive is
and and this hard drive turns out to be a hard drive from a desktop computer- not a laptop but
It sends the media into a frenzy and they start reporting that the laptops hard drive has been found.
It turns out its unrelated. Now it was
icon laptop d
hard drive, plugs
on the bottom,
it slides into a slot, and then
set screw that holds in place
The chances of this hard drive falling out of the laptop are near
impossible. Even if this
screw was removed. The hard drive
still plugged into the laptop still has things
holding it in so
it seems intentional that
hard drive, was removed and
thrown into the river, along with the laptop.
the hard drive, is located in
the temper of two thousand five by a woman and her kid police.
right to work trying to figure out what's on, as they turn it into the f b? I,
Fbi has two different labs: it that take a look at this hard drive and they can't get anything to work on it and they sent it off to a third place
that doesn't work, and then they send it onto a place known as crawl on track, which is the,
place that was able to get information off the black box
six from the space shuttle colombia, which had disintegrated upon re entry. Now the black box is built,
to be durable as built to survive craziness
and so they were able to get the information offer that even in a
damaged way, but a regular laptop he did not have a extra.
Durable, laptop of any kind. There
pretty fragile and they're not going to stand up to the elements or a river beds
not going to happen, so I'm not surprise
that they were unable to get any data off
our drive and if you put a hard drive in the water for months
it's probably not going to work anymore.
Of course, this hard drive
was visibly damage so wasn't just in the water that whole time. It was
doubly damage so Eric.
Through Hell, and it's not
a surprising to me either that it doesnt work but
with each one of these fines
the family, the girlfriend everybody's, getting their hopes up thinking,
we might have something here. We may have a piece of evidence
or another piece of the puzzle, something to tell us what happened that day.
ray greek car, was known as a very private person. Even people
who are good friends or
dated m or were married to him all set
that he was very private and you could
it information out, if he didn't want to give it to you so in
or to understand right,
better in
That would lead to some answers in this investigation that seem to have very little evidence. They
Are you talking to family and one
First people they talked with was tony greek car, his nephew, this son of his brother Roy, who ed
in his own life in
Ninety ninety six well tone
ray car as soon as he heard that his uncle was missing. He headed
depends pennsylvania immediately and he talked
them about his father's suicide,
about what he knew about his uncle.
and die. He would then become basically this
ex person for
This missing persons case, at least on the family side. They also talk to her
girlfriend patty who says
He had been so
being a lot and very little.
our
weeks or months, leading up to his disappearance. She,
told him that
He continues being this tired. He needs to see a doctor
This is a low
you start your own time type a thing or if it's a depression, type a thing but she's.
Concerned about him and wants him to go see you see a doctor. They speak with.
antique shop owners.
in some of the other patrons at the store
There is a citing of re with a dark hair.
smoking, woman and
This ties into the cigarette smoke that these
in his car and the
found on the floor board the siting of him with this woman. It said that their there together,
but they're not being affectionate towards each other. There just walk
with each other shopping.
Looking at antiques, but this isn't
camera. This is just people.
Remembering
think I saw him that day with a woman, and
into the witness they weren't even together, all the time. Sometimes they had often different directions and look at
and things and then be back up, so it seemed
cash casual. Meanwhile,
Oh there's
other sightings of him driving around town and as many cooper after the disappearance, but those are ruled out pretty quickly because there's another guy in town that drives a red, many cooper, so
you're not a lot of many coopers in this town, so the only other guys now getting a lot of attention. Every time he leaves the house and this
is the case for years and years after that
appearance is they would get
sightings in and the police would have
track down. Those leads
or those sightings and see if they could confirm them, but
ever pan out when this
bessie? First got under way the state police said we're not going to handle this, so it was the local police and Bela that handled it.
His that's where re was from take a moment
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cove smart dot com. There is a
Man, that's discovered much later, that very
looks like reg greek are
arrested
twenty eleven in utah,
he's kind of a vagrant. If you
Look at his side by side with ray there's similarities, but
sky looks like he's been living on the streets for ten years which hey he disappeared
it six years earlier possible, but
The authorities will take his fingerprints and exclude
him as re but
in its one. More element that comes up that people are excited.
They think they are actually found him yeah
if you don't look to close it, just a passing glance. He looks just like re in my opinion, but we
really start to analyze it. He doesn't really look like em, but
I can understand a lot of people thought that was re when his pay
Your first showed up even it
nephew when he
once a search for re
He was at a festival like a street festival, and he said
every single man they're looked like his uncle
There are wearing
fleece. Sure you know baseball cap
It's very generic look, I guess, and
he would see his uncle everywhere, he looked
there was a citing that he was on the Oprah.
sitting in the audience it's weird, but she
films in Chicago. So it's not that far
from where he sat
but I don't know why he would go on the
per show. If he's why
do you know the incognito now
we're time the investigation really
piles very little data to work with
the things? I think that they,
Information on that. I find interesting is on April.
Or teeth, which is the day before he drove de louisbourg. An acquaintance of raise saw him at raised town lake, which was an hour's drive from his home. In the complete opposite
correction of louisbourg, so it was another. Fifty five sixty miles the other direction from his house
and this was supposedly a pretty legitimate, citing
Can it makes you wonder in,
I know he likes to drive. But why is he driving out just at this time
and it really stands out because he went missing so
No wonder was he thinking about
appearing himself and
was thinking by doing it there, or was he just really enjoying the drives? It's really,
hard to say what
Do also know is that at the time
his appeared. He only had
eight months left, he was going to retired aged sixty and he was fifty nine at the time, so we're looking
at a guy. That's winding down his career, taking
cases and not working every day, either he's
going to get a substantial pension? He had
plans to travel and
who things once he retired his girlfriend patty
in him had talked about a lot of these
ideas of things are going to try to do I've read that
he didn't have a lot of savings
or for a one k or other retirement financials. I dont know
how true that is, but he did
a pension coming to him and he was living in a nice house already
yet the house he was living in with his girlfriend patty,
was actually a family home of hers,
I know that he invested. I think what like sixty some thousand dollars into it.
gone to her and her brothers, but she bought them out and they
ray, helped put some money into the house to including some house renovation
so he didn't need to have a mortgage. He had very little expenses. This is not a guy that was spending money and he wasn't known to socialize very much. In fact, they said,
good spot him walking down the hallway, and unless you really tried to flag him down, he would walk right past you, even if you were good friends with them, because he was focused
focused on his work, the other,
Possibly they were looking at was if he
appeared himself
then maybe he went to slovenia,
family there, but he has family in the states to well they
side to send flyers too
the areas of slovenia. They think he might have.
up at her.
Gone there. They also start sending flyers too,
places in europe where he had said that he wanted to visit after retiring, so there
they trying everything they can because
I don't know whether he jumped to his death weather
He walked away.
Or whether someone abducted and murdered him so
What are some of these theories that we have to deal with when it comes to murder, while the
predominant one is he had
looked into the sandusky case and not prosecuted, but does a tion there. So people were
you're, pretty upset when sand
ski and penn state were
going down per se are the whole school is going down.
paternal, the coach
was beloved by
students, a penn state by the people who lived in the area.
When he was taken down, they rioted
they set cars on fire. They flip them over. They stage
protests. This was,
very uneasy time?
are penalised they lost their official champions,
record's dating back,
the way to ninety ninety eight. So this
and go over very well, I guess the
The says that the idea here is that
either sandusky or somebody affiliated with them new.
at the d, a hat
something on his laptop and could come after him
they had to knock off array in order to prevent this prosecution jeopardy
the school there. Meanwhile, I'm thinking, while he d
prosecute,
so was at one of the family members that often because they are upset that he didn't go after sandusky. I mean you can play there
both ways but with the
Cigarette ashen is car and he's not a smoker and in the summer
substantiated sightings of him with this woman that was smoking. Why
is he out and about with a star
person and
we never found his body. So therefore, could they have put him in
the vehicle taken off with them, something to that effect
right, you could almost imagine that he got
into his vehicle, getting ready to leave, and then the woman shows back up any law,
as the window and she's smoking
and she says to tell him how he is going to have to go with her. Meanwhile, I think
whoever was smoking was in his car and his driver's seat and they went to flip
ash out the window and that's when it dropped down, because I don't think
if car, what smelled that bad of cigarette smoking. It was somebody outside the car. I think it's a
inside the car smoking and then they
shut the doors and walk away. It locks in that odor
I think the only other way you get that much cigarette odor in the vehicle is if the person smoking is standing outside the vehicle with the window open for a length of time
but either way it's very strange because apparently re did not like cigarette smoke. So for some
to be smoking right there in front of his face,
It seems very, very strange and out of character for him.
As far as this connection to penn state goes either
as you said it could be. One of them
it families was very angry with him and decided to get revenge or
the school was trying to protect itself and there were a lot of people at the school that were taken down that had to answer.
For what happened.
You wonder if there was one
that may be. Re was finally going to prosecute this case, but
problem with that? Is
There is no evidence of that
and so how would someone who could potential
he be prosecuted even
about it. If other people didn't know about it, people that were closer to re there is there was a hand
people that knew about it there
the victims, mother and the few
police officers that gave her a wire and monitored but eve,
The new prosecutor didn't know about it, so it was, it was kept. Pretty hush hush so
this idea that he had to be stopped or silence, because he is going to prosecute on this pen say case,
it just doesn't make sense? Because there is nothing happening. There is
behind the scenes of this happening, but in order
stop this process that had begun.
If they wanted to stop it, they would have had to kill the witnesses. The people who were the victims and their
that didn't happen so the
boys that were being attacked by
jerry Sandusky. There are the ones that behind the scenes over these years,
we're going in meeting with police and now
king off a dossier will
There's going to be a replacement.
Asking the government that ways not going to stop the government from
prosecuting you going out
The victims victim intimidation that would be
a better avenue anyway
tried.
jerry Sandusky did call the home of one of the victims.
said he wanted to talk
and you can only imagine why he was doing that and that's because he knew the pressure was on and he was feeling it but again
stopping the da doesn't do anything. That's like saying
If I stop this one police officer, I'm good
why there are a lot of police officers lined up behind that one. Another
possible reason there.
Someone might have wanted him. Dad was
a former health angel who had become an fbi informant who says that he murdered re greek car.
Basically says he shot him in any caps
threw down a shaft,
like a mine, shaft,
and he says or other bodies down there and that's why he can't just tell them. Where are you
is because he's like yeah you find ray and there
maybe you don't prosecute me for that. But then your prosecute me for these other bodies.
Down there, so he he
ass immunity
it seems as though the police don't really by his story. That's it.
The judgment call, or perhaps they have more information than anybody else has, but it would come
down to it? This is something
That gained some traction over time, but in the
The police just don't buy it and are not giving the guy deal
they don't seem to care to. Have him led them to the ship?
if even though one point he got them sort of close, he said, but it is.
it against telling them worry where the body is their trial.
tie it in two
what it re duty you or what crime is tied, ended this who did ray?
put behind bars that may
You kill him in this.
informant doesn't ever seem to come forthwith and
we'll tion, and that's why
is not taken seriously here,
And say it was part of the heroin drug bus. He doesn't say it was.
random. Guy that murdered again. Member there's, no there's no
next time that he really creates it's just. I did it, but I need immunity.
People do weird stuff like this all the time where they met to crimes.
I don't know, I guess it's either a fifteen minutes of fame more. They want a book deal. I don't know, I think they should have
gone to the shaft with them just to see what,
going on there
I understand their scepticism.
And the last thing to say about the foul play would be that we still don't know the identity of the woman that he was seen with at four.
they thought it was a woman that he was friends with Barbara
the she's too,
reporter, but then she worked in the press office for the attorney general when they checked in.
She was on vacation and she was in new york. In fact, she readily spoke
with investigators, and she said: look
If anyone saw me out by the antique shops, they know me there, they wouldn't be a brunette
It would be. Oh, that's barbara, they know me so
that's a dead end, but
possible, of course, that
this woman,
been setting re up. Maybe
An attractive woman came long and sir making small talk with him. She could get his
are down and then
he could be ambushed
We just don't know again what the mode of would be, but that's just the possibility sense
even though they attempted to get in contact with
by asking you to show herself. Essentially they never worked out then
and they waited till two thousand six
to try and talk to her really because no one knew about this until two thousand six. They they kept it from the public that
have been lost time and if that person was just a casual person that brain
by the anti shops. Who knows if she was paying attention or anything to this case now?
speaking of the woman, the other
idea or the other hypothesis here is that he he lay
on his own well
if he's with a woman, was he having an affair? Did he take off with this woman, as opposed to
I'll play, it was intentional
What are some of the other ideas
that he just took
off on his own one. The ideas that he's in a witness protection programme its-
that a district attorney wooden qualify for one, but I mean
let's be honest. If the government wants to put a d in a witness protection program, I'm sure
they can do it it's a
snowman to say that their they don't qualify they're trying,
person. They become a witness to all of that, but I've heard
the way witness protection works as they do it
temporarily. They don't
for the rest of your life they might be.
you and new identification, but
they're, not going to keep you in witness protection indefinitely. So
ray would be put in witness protection and tell whatever was going on the heat was off and then they would allow him to leave witness protection.
He would be able to contact his family his girlfriend and what not after that either
I believe that he did moved to slovenia and he had travelled there in the seventies and eighties.
Because, as they say, that's where his ancestors came from and he had a lot of interest in slovenia, but looking
all of this in the way that he cared about his girlfriend away cared about his daughter.
Just didn't seem to ring true. For me at least.
they set at one point. His daughter had had an accident out west
I think I was a snowboarding accident and
and he rushed to the airport to meet up with her. They said he was pale,
He was very, very concerned about his daughter. So you have
think you know? Why would he just disappear and leave pham
behind, even if he wasn't that
sociable over person. He did have his
a he did have his daughter it just
really ring true to me. What do you think justin? I get it
took off that one time to go see here, the
cleveland, indians game. I take that as
the man just wanted to blossom steam and just get away from a com
the home when it comes to him. Taking off
if he had a bunch of debt if he had a bunch of issues if
bad guys were coming after him. If there was any
sort of evidence of any of that, I could buy
that he just ran away. Just walked away, took off, but
His life seemed to be in order. His life seemed
pretty good. He was about to retire. Get a pension.
the fbi looked to see if he was moving money around, he wasn't, they checked to see
he had been using his
the cards they add as bank account information. Nothing so
I get it if you're going to disappear, you're you're goin,
to hide finances you're going to have different things, but.
I don't like this idea because something we
and talked about earlier. But there were
searches done on his computer and he had
asked around at the office. How do you
destroy a hard drive, I'm just then
if the guy's Google
how to destroy hard drive. I would expect to see her.
Do I disappear myself off the hook? You would have that
that criminal mindset but
people say well, he's a d. He works with criminals. This is knowledge he would have
there is also this book called twenty twenty vision that he was a consultant on. That's pretty much a sort of
I'm a time travel crime novel. Yet
fictional ized version of a real crime that happened at penn state
where a woman was murdered, the date that it take
place is for fifteen or april fifteenth and
that's the same day that rate
appears these
and pointed it is that the hero drives east from
fictional eyes, stay college and goes into the valley. Well, tat,
clearly reg reg ricard did the same thing
I don't know how much stock
we'll put in that. But there's
novel. That has some kind of weird
similarities to what he did on his final day. It's
such a weird tie, it makes you either think while
peace. This, as is in
inspiration or his guidelines for his disappear
since or this
is really weird coincidence.
The thing that happened was pieper report
at hearing of raise interest in a disappearance case that happened in nineteen. Eighty five, it was,
a police chief by the name of MEL wily. He was the
clean police chief,
inside of his car
his nineteen, eighty, twenty oda,
edgewater parking cleveland. They found
His clothes folded neatly inside the vehicle, with his belt wallet and idea card stacked on top
according to people. In that case, they said that MEL wily was a very private individual. He didn't like
but himself very much.
Didn't socialize. They never found
Then he
been gone this entire time now
idea where he went, which
very similar to what happened with rate recall, so you wonder,
it was he inspired by that this
dear that he could just
disappear again. He's
I bet person and private people
They don't like to share anything with you, so maybe in the end they
dont want to share why they left the final hypothesis. Is he took his own life?
We know his brother had done us
in a very similar fashion. We
his girlfriend saying that he was sleeping alot possum,
from depression. We have this harder
I've that's been removed from his laptop and both his lap
an hour drive.
Were thrown into this river. I get.
I'm having trouble? If, if I was,
bad guy, and I was coming to kill you, and I knew there was something on your laptop that I didn't want getting out
If I would risk drawn lab
up in the river- I would probably take it with me and then
suppose of you. So the fact that his lab
hop was found in the river not to
are from the, whereas car was found in the
Hard drive had been removed, I'm just going to say I believe that it had to be physically removed. It didn't just fall out raided that I think that
I don't know I don't know what other times we have here, but those are the three main points
It's when it comes to suicide,
here the whole time I was researching this case, I kept wrestling just as the police. Do
was this a walk away. Was this file
play, or was this a suicide?
and I must say that after
doing all this reading all this thinking there really was the one thing that makes the most sense to me even
Oh, you can't prove it
is the suicide angle and that
because dislike
point out just then he would have to
physically it removed the hard drive. You would have
the tool, so he s to remove the hard drive and he asked the damage both the laptop and the hard drive. Now. Why would he do that people keeper
up. This idea that,
have some incriminating evidence.
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it be joke with people hey if I
or if I go missing, destroy
my computer right.
Let my history delete my browser history,
my history and the computer. This is
private, individual. There are people that tried to pry and learn more about re because they really liked him. I mean you: can
really fine, but who had a bad word about re but use,
private, and I think this in
searching he bought soft
or to delete stuff up.
our drive he
I had to leave nothing.
That business that he down the laptop is not about hiding anything in particular here
it's a private person. He doesn't want you to know what was on there, not because you know
maybe if we did find out what goes on there, I'm not sure we find things special he's just up.
I've at person. I think you
to remove that hard drive to.
straw it, so you wouldn't leave anything behind the whole reason. This case continues on, as it does is be.
We ve, never found his body and I think it's just dumb, lock
It is unfortunate that we never found his body because I built
if he threw himself into the squander river. Now do
research into what happens to people and the golan rivers. It's you.
Really the case that a body will turn up. Sometimes it
six days sometimes,
It takes hours. Sometimes it takes weeks but
today. Most of these bodies turn up, but when they don't it's because
they ve gotten into the main current and they get
every doubt a long ways in either going to a large body of water and they are
gone through their cycle of going.
up and down in the water based on what's happening with the body,
decomposing or it gets.
to a dam and gets chewed up, but
think really. What makes the most sense to me is just the suicide angle, because he was up
that person and if raise, really depressed, he's not going to tell you about it. He was
very businesslike person who is very focused, and he didn't let stuff out
So I think we're looking at the result,
the person who try to keep everything private and succeeded
I thought it was weird that he wanted to
Try the hard drive, because
obviously this laptop was assigned to him by- and I t group- usually you
herndon laptop back in if there is any less
all standing spending. They would
want to make a copy of the hard drive or
They will wipe the hard drive and they will
take care of your data, for you. I've done this job. If you can't tell
He didn't want them to even have that here
willing to destroy state property and technically break the law too.
Keep his life private eye,
problems that they didn't find his body, because this search effort, so
a pretty fast minos. There was not a lotta delay their, but one
sure if they were looking in the river
same night that he went missing it
ten days later and who knows how far he could have gotten downriver at that point? Also, if
it was on land and they
and find them while the elements and animals can take care of a body pretty well. I read, and
or of cases where
people went into the squander river, and
Sometimes people turned up right away, and sometimes it took weeks and when that happens, they have to investigate to figure out who the person was, and that took time, because this
the body after being in the river for weeks, is now
pretty sight. So I
the bunch of boxes that I put check marks and when it comes to foul play
walk away or suicide
I have to say that one I'm checking off these boxes foul play
got a lot of czech marks because of the abruptly
because of his background because of his job I dislike,
Are these sandusky trial in that time, because I think that's just what's on everyone's mine, so they want to make that fit.
personally I dont think that team
Coaches are some sort of mafiosi, those that are calling in hits on DA's that just doesn't jive with me, but
Anyone from his past that he's wronged, Hell's angels, heroin dealers,
any kind of murderers, they could
definitely off him
wanted to. So I have a lot of czech marks in those boxes specially
we get down to the the cigarette
smoking. Ashen is car it.
Looks really bad. The
walk away. I dont have a lot of check marks there myself. I dont think that his life,
was in such a state that he was, he would just walk off and start a whole new life. He didn't.
Take any of his money to do it, so that would mean he would have to rely on somebody else or
you'd have to start over which
he was right at retirement. I don't know how
Feasible, that would be
I didn't have a lotta check marks and suicide, either
comes to that date,
hard drive right.
hard drive. Just doesn't add up to me,
I think he's the one that remove the hour drive out of that laptop
If he did it, then he was the last person there and he
intentionally. Did this and then disappeared? Well
I think that was his his final
day on earth and we just haven't
found his body and that check
mark on the hard drive is a big black, huge.
Check mark that says that might be. Were I'm heading two now, because that means a lot more than foul play because foul play. Why would
was in the middle of throwing his laptop into the river. When somebody cabin to come upon him and kill em, I mean I don't know.
It just doesn't add up to me. If he's the one that
strong that laptop, which I absolutely think he was denied
It just comes down to Occam's razor, I mean. What's the simplest explanation, you have this very private guy who was trying to figure out how to destroy data on his hard drive and
he'd been sleeping a lot. He was
headed towards retirement his brother.
had taken his own life. This
the conversation at one point where he talk to somebody and he told them that he didn't they
his brother
his own life,
and every time he would visit back home
in ohio. He would ask
the police. Are there any updates on my brother's case, but of course
one of the police. There was a suicide. I think
there's just so much there that shows that ray
a private depressed person who,
was at the end, I believe,
he took his own life. I have a
time really going down any other pass? Now? I literally spent today
trying to figure out how am I
the hard drive was and why because
You know, as I said, private person will hard drive, is the other phrase that keeps popping up here, sir.
The case is hard drive and private person, and that's it
did. He didn't wanna leave anything behind for you to discover. He doesn't want you to know what happened he took with him. I do
in all of the other,
incidences very interesting. What this case- and I
Absolutely can go down the other radicals and in their very
trusting there very early,
You question a lot of things, but I guess it is. It really comes out of the hard drive for me
his family had him declared dead in
two thousand levin.
Six years later and the courts agreed.
you have a difficult for his daughter to do that. I'm sure, because
throughout the years she had said that she was not going to give up on her dad, but
think what changed her mind was after five or six years and
dad hadn't contacted her. She
they believe in her heart, that of her dad was around, he would have gotten a message to her and she said
that just didn't happen,
now? I know that there will be people out there that dont, but
if her because they'll say well by his so called dying before he was a
the retire. She was able to get more money, but
I believe her when she talked about this. I believe what she said was true in allow
of her media appearances,
I would say hey, please come back we're here for you
and people read into that and say well
She knows he's alive,
No, she just saying
please come home. It's a very generic
thing to do is say I hope you come home, but
people read into it and they feel that she knew
something there was something
or to it. I don't know but they're. Just please for
if he's out there in the world to come home, but they
to the conclusion that he's he's never coming back, so
or the arm chair detectives. This is a very, very interesting missing persons case
four raise family. This is just heartache that has yet to end.
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Transcript generated on 2022-08-27.