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Ripper Confidential - 254

Ripper Confidential. London, England. In this bonus episode, Aaron interviewed Ripper researcher Tom Wescott about his latest book, Ripper Confidential. Before we got to the book, I wanted to ask him questions related to the History Channel series, American Ripper. For anyone unfamiliar with it, the premise is that Jack the Ripper was actually H. W. Mudgett, a.k.a. H. H. Holmes. Is there evidence to support this theory? Ripper Confidential, using the latest available research materials, gives us a clearer picture of the Ripper's attacks, possible survivors, witness statements, as well as the evidence left at the crime scenes. What was the Ripper's modus operandi? How many victims can we say that he had? Are we any closer to learning his true identity? See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.
This is an unofficial transcript meant for reference. Accuracy is not guaranteed.
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Tom, you're, a published author and you are from Oklahoma in the united states, correct. That is absolutely correct. I do- and I am doing great time your passion, your interest lies in the case of jack, the ripper that's correct, like dear to your listeners and and I'm proud to count myself among year, the lesters, a generation. Why love, true crime and
over the course of decades of interests dies build upon the ripper cases as being like my primary area of focus where step two beyond just being a you know. consumer of the literature and had dove deeper into it myself, the contemporary resources, and eventually publishing s eyes and the now books, no one that I find really fascinating about this resource? That's going on the jack. The Ripper is discontinued output, this collection of data that we would have known about. Otherwise, unless someone had put it in a book now we have people collecting information, putting it on the internet for Fellow researchers, that's correct yeah. I don't know what I would do without without that well I think we touched on this a little bed. The last time I was on your show.
You know one of the interesting developments, because people ask me all the time and like how is there ever any new information in a case that Almost a hundred and thirty years old and in more books and written about in other upper than about john f Kennedy or any other president in others, and there's no into whether the answer the how Information is everything's digital now, and so there are so many like newspapers and I just can't temporary resources that have never been available to us. They ve been locked away in some dank you know, archive in london and now they're getting digitized and put online line and their word searchable and so, and then the the more knowledge that researchers possess the more effective they are in using these databases to discover new things and so, discoveries are always being made now. The majority of Ripper books that come out are not
I'm just gonna be asked, are not very good books most of em and they again a use of this material, but there are a handful of authors and researchers myself included what we do is we look for new things and we present new things to the in public people who are interested so what is old is new. Again act. That is. That is absolutely the case. So we have original articles it's all news reports that just didn't survive in a way that we could have read them in the nineteen seventies or eighties. But now in two thousand seventeen, some of articles from even I guess you could say more well. Respected papers are now seeing the light of day and we having an effect on the rest, urge into who jack or was and how we operated correct. It and the more we know about how he operated and now
the people involved in the case, the clothes Lena. We get a little bit closer each time. deciding who he wasn't because so many suspects have been. Fourth, over the years, and of whom he wasn't as much as who he was because Is a dizzying array of suspects out there to choose from and in you the vast majority of them don't stand up to even the most minute scrutiny and some of them in our you, gotta look two or three times at an aa, but like we're gonna talk about age, age homes figured prominently in their history. And I'll series american Ripper this year, but a suspect who is receiving a lot of attention at present, but he's not actually a new suspect. Like many people. Thank you,
There is some something has to be said here. That may not be obvious to everyone, but you have this. Aspects that are familiar, or to people who research jack the ripper or reach a lot of material on jack, the ripper and then you have, People who are sort of casually interested in the case may be a purple since then, they want to know who jack the Ripper was. They want to solve them. Who done it but they're out really putting in the time so there taking in what's presented to them. In a recent case they have american ripper on the history channel and so that material there. That information seem so new, so compelling that it It's them on that path of. Oh wait, a minute. What, if H h homes was jack, the Ripper This is a new era, time. The Ripper makes news. You know it's always because of a theory, and it's always while this most unlikely theories that make the news about in the seventies. We have the royal conspiracy theory were.
It's albert edward victor was supposed to be jack. The Ripper and that made, apology just explode you know, and of course many movies were based off of this theory. The johnny depp found from EL being one of the more recent ones, but and that was also a case of a guy coming forth, saying: oh I'm, the descendant of some the famous artist walter secured an from came the royal conspiracy theory and then eventually the theory that walter sacred himself was jack, the ripper in which patricia corn while theory and ads on common to find people come forth wanting their ancestor to have been jack, the Ripper and this results in a theory that catches the public imagination, but in virtually every case. Let's just theirs
there's? No there's just no air in the lungs had said just not any. It's not worth anything. It's not a valid. The theory well, american, Ripper has one man behind it: Jeff Majid, who writes the great great grandson of herman w my jet, also known as h, h, homes right and so Jeff. Much has a theory. He has a theory that this relative of his who is a he's an infamous serial killer in his own rights and more than likely had more victims than jack the ripper if their separate people probably no up to seventeen or so right. These things there be a connection because h, H, homes could have traveled from sake go to london in here. He could have yes no way to really tell except they're looking into ships logs
finding known, aliases or then homes and saying wait a minute if he traveled at this time. He would have been in the area to commit these murders. Well- One thing you know if any of your listeners have seen american ripper or seen it but would like to. I would encourage them to watch it. enjoy it for what it is, which is entertainment I think it is not as actual history, and this is not unique, there's a lot of most any of these historical shows like this. putting the reason why many series of debt oj really do it there. They. Just be watched, his entertained and as nuts all they are. But in the case of her Arms are one of the things that, like yours, watching american rubber see a lot of experts interviewed, there's a handful of rubber I'll just and the first but besides interviewed.
there is a well known, h, h, homes, expert at himself serve appears in four of the six episodes and you know, from watching them one might the impression that on some level, they agree with the theory that homes was the Ripper because and show them disagreeing with it. You know that of course, my is, is a mistaken impression, because none of the reproaches interviewed actually thanks, H, h homes was jack. The Ripper in pretty much gesture image it does that no one else ever has this. There has been a long time has never been taken seriously in the in the report, illogical, community for good reason. For starters each homes there's no documentation showing he ever actually in his lifetime, went to london let alone multiple times during or in the Ripper murders the gene is the Ripper murders occurred from at the very
latest they began in august. I believe they began in eighteen. Eighty seven at the very latest they began in august of eighteen. Eighty eight and ran through ended very at the very earliest november of eighteen. Eighty eight some believe they went on past that, but if we just take off two november of eighteen. Eighty eight. We have all of that year and adam salt or again he's the consulting producer on american rubber. And he had to wait until the show it airing. But then he put out some information that he had shared with the producers and they chose not to use such as that homes, as daughter was born. july of eighteen. Eighty nine and was an end at his chicago murder. Castle and assaults are put it. We know of at least one thing: homes doing in the autumn of eighty eight he was doing that in Chicago and that, as he was clearly bending time with, his daughters, mother,
also know that holmes was in the englewood district of Chicago. On october, ninth of eighteen, eighty eight registering for the vote and am now, although it's true that no Ripper murders occurred in the month of october, they did one had occurred just at september thirtieth next one recurrent occur november. Ninth and one didn't just hop a plane back then to go from london to Chicago. It was a grueling experience of floating slowly across the atlantic ocean. Ah so, The fact that we now homes was in their and october trouble makes it extremely unlikely that- and then in London Justino, you know a half earlier committing murders. And then now, let's see, there's also letters from homes as family. The put him in new england later on in october, as well as probably november of eighteen. Eighty eight, if that's the case, he couldn't have been in london, killing Mary Kelly, the infamous final victim of jack, the ripper, but damn I'm thrown a lot at you, but
I'm just trying to give your listeners on idea the documentation that actual shows he was an american verses. London. There are going through a ship, and going out what this name is similar to one of his life dozens of alias as well there. You can find gotta ship's log from yesterday find those same named general doesn't mean anything, but what I find most telling is that in the summer and fall of eighteen, eighty eight alms was dealing with three separate lawsuits in. a cargo, and he met with his lawyer at least one time that's document had no doubt he met with him multiple times, but one time that's document and in the paperwork concerning the lawsuit against him by edna. Salt or on earth, a document that puts homes and a court room on september, eighteen, thirty, eight and eighty eight, keeping in mind the Ripper victim, Annie, chapman, was were murdered on September eight and liz stride and catherine edas were murdered in the double event of September thirtieth. If holmes was
a core roman chicago on september. Eighteen, you can pretty much rural him out as having men, jack the ripper and now to play devils advocate. He didn't have to be present in the courtroom in order for his attorney to list them as being present, but if you're, if we're going to assume if, in order for him to be jack, the ripper we have to assume his attorney was lying for him, he had an impostor sharpen has placed a ready. turn avowed. I mean that's your stretching a little far the reality is homes holmes in chicago further tyre autumn of eighteen. Eighty eight and someone was jack. The Ripper vapor documentation aside, and we just look at the murders arms was a sociopath. A con man is what he was, and he liked to murder in private He did so for financial gain. Am I have no doubt he enjoyed the power of killing people, but
his primary motive was financial gain. Everything he did was. surrounded around that. The majority of his crimes did not involve murder, they occur. You know con jobs, but the on the other hand, risk life and limb to carry out in the open he killed on the open street in the wee hours of the morning he killed in the poorest of the poor prostitutes. There was no financial gain to be had, or had intricate knowledge of the east end of london streets. Holmes- would not have possess that knowledge. There's just no way he could have the so there's just if you look at them, holmes, representing the only thing it has going for does that homes as from us, he's american and he occur. Or his martyrs occurred shortly after the rubber murders, but their totally different killers on totally different continents take a moment
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and it seems like he's really prided himself on showing that h, h, homes pro probably has less than twenty, dumps, he doesn't have two hundred, that's for sure so he still has a high kill count. You like it those how people have this mythology that they build up around certain serial killers and say he had a murder castle. There were two hundred victims and he's like area seems like that in some more and its because We get this idea that this castle was solidly bill. And had all these trick doors and everything else when in reality it was not solidly built in outside it was, but on the inside yeah, so he curled. financial gain. It wasn't like he had all this a point of this building and make it an incredible site. Well, I would, though, one of his interest, as he wanted to make money, not spend money, I'm sorry
he cut out, but it will that wasn't the intention with the murderer castle at all. It was there to make him money in the less he can spend in the matter. You wonder why he would travel back and forth to angle. for what he of easily. If you wanted to commit such martyrs, he could have committed those murders in Chicago right, one something the not addressed on american ripper law wide london. Why the east end of london you know that was the slums of the biggest city on earth that would be like. You now have some from london decided they wanted to commit murder today, and they flew over to go to south central los angeles, some think they can blend in an kill, impunity their bits and saying you know now. Theoretically, He had done. That sure is any of it. Shall reason to believe he dared not now one fred and now Jeff He comes across great on tv. He looks great, sounds great
was a very you know. When you get personality on the tv show I enjoyed watching him, I've known of his work for years and his enthusiasm. for the idea that you know his great grandfather was jack, the ripper, by the time they jump shark a number of times in the show one of them being. I think it was the fifth episode or something I dunno. My eyes started a raw while I was watching it, but are they present a photograph that they say is awesome? to cater to be less stride. Ripper victim the bus stride and- and you know course reproduced- we laughed collectively because the photographs it showed is not elizabeth stride. Its internet hoax photo the producers who and to have known this big they consulted with Ripper people. Not myself, but any one of them would have said
it is not elicit a photo of Elizabeth stride. There's only one authentic photo of Elizabeth stride that is known to exist and that's her mortuary photograph any way they they handed. This photo over to some pseudo scientist with a machine and and then they handed him a further that was found in a collection that may have belonged to hiv charms and asked him to come to see if they were the same person compare them and they were like sixty four percent likely had they were the same person and so from this lake Clearly the data chums possessed a photograph of Elizabeth stride. and in reality, though, they is not a photo stride, the photo they compared to didn't even slightly resemble that photo or elizabeth stride. So this is all just smoke and mirrors the cameras. There was not a shred of evidence valuable in that at all, but After very it was.
Impact while to the viewers at home, who didn't know they were being hoodwinked, and I didn't care for that part of the sharp I'm ok with a guy run around with a theory saying hey, you know, let's see if this pans out, but you know when you start presenting fake evidence like they brought up the le catherine at a shawl again, which most of us we ve been over this, that shawl that idea It has done, it had nothing to do with the rubber case that never has. It would never belong to europe or victim catherine meadows. It was not pulled off her body after her murder suggest has nothing as no relevance or are valid at anything valid about it at all. In relation to the Ripper case, Yet they will it out, for these tv shows because sounds good. It sounds it, sir, whenever you can talk about dna.
You sound like you, have some sort of credibility, because people believe dna solves cases and it does not it. It. Convex people detective work, solves case because detective work is how you get the two dna samples together to compare in the first place and in this case detective work shows us that that shawl has no relevance whatsoever to the jack. The Ripper case. Therefore, dna. Comparison will be fruitless right. but the shawl is an entertainment factor of or use it, and then I can say we're going to dna test it and everybody will wait for that act. Next episode to see if the dna testing showed any thing It doesn't matter that is not related to the case at all, but it should. I think, because it is, history channel one
and in other playing really fast and loose at this point with with their history. and then I think we spend at least were like an hour an hour and a half watching them dig up homes as grave tell us what we already knew, which was guess what that's homes buried under their amethyst. Pleased every last but a drama, and that of course has no relevance to the jack the ripper case, but that was how they spend their entire lives episode on this, called American Ripper was finding out if homes wasn't at buried his own gray, which of course he was so you know, but that the shows, if you want to just watch for entertainment. Indeed, just like you would big bang theory or something else- that's fine, but My advice is on any of these shows like this. I'm not just taking on american Ripper watch them strictly for entertainment value. Believe nothing until you confirm with better sources
I'm not a may change homes expert but in my opinion, Adam themselves or is the number one homes guy and he has a you know a new book out. Then I would stress, I recommend anyone get and that's h, homes. The truth or of the white city devil by aunt salt If you want to learn more about homes, get that book do. You want to read more about jack, the Ripper again books and and the books of some of my colleagues, let's I have more into the actual case of jack the Ripper, because you have a new book out and I believe it came out in late may of this year of two thousand and seventeen that sounds about right, yeah, Ripper, confidential and So people understand this book came about because often time in the past. People would write fantastic articles about certain aspects of the case, so they might just focus on an encounter. That someone had or some
who might have been a survivor or they might talk about the debt of catherine echoes things like, and so what you did was you kind of compiled together articles and I think in the end, you ve created this book. That really shows you just how people research this case and how they arrive at certain conclusions based their research, and then how, Research has changed over time. Well, the book is, I collect. Of essays, read all written by myself over the course of fifteen. years so essays, not articles right, yeah, yes, as they have a better way to put it and many of them, I wrote brand new for this book. They've never been published elsewhere, the other Does that have been published elsewhere were published in journals that are now gone there obsolete
there there are defined, and I thought well, that's a shame because others are pretty good. You know pretty good essays on theirs. Lotta get information that find a new and audience. I gave me the opportunity to update the articles correct errors, I may add on whole bunch, a new stuff venom and then right, a bunch of, new essays with the latest research and findings, and I chose to put that out as ripper confidential and you know it's a popery of debt and things. The first section focuses largely on the murder of Marianne nicholls, alcinous polly nickels, and I present a lot of new information on there? In fact, the people who speak, the document is a year or two ago there came one called the missing evidence: jack the ripper, the missing evidence which claim jack. The Ripper was in fact charles latchmere. Ok, Charles cross
The man who discovered paulding, Nicholls body there arguing that he wasn't. The man who discovered her body is the man who murdered her. And also not a new theory. But it was in a very well made documentary very convincing. If you dont know better so in this section I dont make a point of taking on the the art and had on that he wasn't jack the ripper, but throughout the course of that section I touch on certain points to wear If I'm right on any one of them, he was now jack. The Ripper, he's not a very viable suspect anyway. But them people see my documentary you would like to learn more But the actual facts can get them from my book rubber confidential. For the first time, the name of a woman who may have been surviving victim of jack. The ripper that was all new research for the book and appears nowhere else, but you
Margaret members may have been attacked by jack. The ripper at just hours prior appalling nicholls in the same neighborhood and survived em. And I put all the evidence for that in this book, the second section, which is the biggest section of the book I devote to the berner street mystery, which is the the murder of Elizabeth strider on burner straight and all those crazy cast of characters that surround her in this I present a lot of new information. Some, I think very pertinent. Information relating to eyewitness accounts that changes, who we think is the final person to have seen her alive and therefore the likely murderer of less stride, jack the ripper. And I did this by utilizing those sources, we're talking about earlier.
TIM eddies, Ripper writers, and mainly that the times the london times was the newspaper they had the most ready access to. and whereas today we ve got dozens and dozens of papers. We have access to an- those I've been able to pull like However, there was an inquest hearing where people would give evidence and reporters would gather around and record what they heard instead of from one paper, if I can get it from five or six or seven different journalist who were actually there in that moment, I'm getting different versions of the same information and from those if out of six I've on food of them agree on a particular thing said, and that's probably what was said and I'm piecing together to give a clearer picture, of what a witnesses testimony was and therefore what we should believe and not believe, and how should change our thinking, if necessary in in this case and elizabeth strike case. There are some very pertinent points. We,
do, I think, need to change our thinking about in terms of who was the last person to see her alive, what they saw and therefore, You know what the actual description of her likely killer, who may have been jack the Ripper at the time, were many women who had to work as sex workers to make a living correct and the education system at the time available for women. Things were very, very different back then, and so, if their husband kick them out, they left their husband. Things could get pretty dark for these women. In that of london in any area of london, because most of these women did not start out in that area. They lived in better sir stances and then largely through alcoholism. These women floated down to the east and and and more profit
deeds and that other work in order to there, their alcohol habit as well stay alive paulie. eccles gay marianne nicholls, let's talk about it who she was. She had a certain reputation. She starts with a husband and children, correct, that's correct, and then, as you put it in your book, there, the time where her husband actually has to come out and speak to the media because they ve been told he's, sir he's not a great guy right. So what have and with her, because she doesn't start off as a woman. Working the streets so Can you give us a little summary of who she is and how she ends up in that area? Well, paulie, neck old! Here she she was a married woman with them numerous children parenting, allegedly during the course of,
you know, have the final child. She had a husband began a relationship with her nurse. Her bed nurse and whether that's true or not is is hard to say. Bad polly was alcoholic. Forced to leave the family, her husband would pay her money until he found out that she was a prostitute and then when applied to the courts, and they said you know you don't have to pay anything if she's, if she's, making money as a prostitute so that her funding off and from there she went to the workhouse says she would live. She would sleepily, and parks is apparently very rowdy. and thence was living in the air was called the DAS houses or the like. Jeanne the houses of the east end of london at the time she died and in fact that's Might she died? She was trying to get together her enough.
to afford a room for the night and she was telling me look at the jolly bonnet. I have and she had. Just recently, her birthday was the week before someone bought her bonnet or she purchased it for herself, possibly but She, the bonnet, was not actually knew. It was right, did, but it was new to her and that was better looking than the one she'd have previously shows. He was proud to show it off yeah. I guess she felt that might get her cup. You know some custom from the men they actually look younger than her years. She was, her forties, bunched ass. She looked at her laid twenties. Early thirties is as long as she didn't smile. When she smiled you'd say she was missing a number of tea, but she was a full Figured gown very buxom, my book I quota paper reporter who saw her body and who just going on about how well built she was
Look at live elizabeth stride. She was also alcoholic egg but pray. Italy has done well in life. She and her husband had even on their own coffee house and popular. and now she who could speak like five languages migrated to england from Sweden and so on, intelligent woman, but again did alcoholism. Her family life fell apart and she drifted to the east in that story with all of the victims. Really it's the same story Over and over and over paulie. Goals. She had maybe said some things about her husband to make him not look so good and in us you're, not for himself with the media. She had told the day. Now it's again when you're an embarrassing circumstances, just a woman who is an alcoholic living as prostitutes and people ask you How did you end up this way? You're going to tell stories that
that, maybe don't make you look so bad right and now that she was dead. And the stories were surfacing about her husband, cheating on her and doing these things, and so he fell a need to write to the newspapers to set the record straight about himself and and he did so and they published his letter and that letters in my book, her husband A strange tat. Her husband, had also applied to his work. This is interesting. They didn't have insurance and stuff back then like. We would thank out today but his work. They would have pool where everyone put a little money in an office poor, so that, if a tragedy occurred and employ could draw, that money out and use it and Her husband apparently had done that He'd withdrew enough money to pay for her entire funeral though he had spent the cost of the funeral with her father and his son and
so in the argument being that he might have pocketed some of that money in a non profit it off of her death. That way, I don't know if it's true, but these things were all talked about at the time An m merv discussed in a little bit in my book, but with this That, though, is the very people who were becoming victims of jack, the Ripper relief hard lives and They still had that concern to come off as walls they could weather. a bonnet or even a shawl. If you had something that you felt good about. You get attached to that's what you did, what yeah they were tell people you know Elizabeth? stride. She had some Some linen some velvet. That meant a lot to her. She had a a bible, meant a lot to her in a mirror. Kelly and then how many clause, but the close she had. She kept very need nice,
so in the air, they were still there still women in that they like to look ass, pretty ass. They could and also that they made their money. They happen look a little more attractive than the girl further down the ways to attract the attention of the guys, and and some of them dead. Some of them didn't liz stride, said came from sweden. She the name long list because of the way she walked probably not she gotta because of her name being stride long stride, long liz play on her name. True, I thought that she may have walked a certain way because of the conditions she had. She didn't have it This amendment was, she had a of her legs was bowed, ass the bone area and that would have probably caused her to walk funny overnight. Was murdered. Man was seen pulling her and then whether said the it looked like he turned her and through her down, and I have often wondered if he was just pushing her in
fell down because of her deformed leg. One of the things that seems to come up in this book of yours. Is this idea of we really try and figure out who was a jacket. perfect em. Who was an almost jack the ripper victim in another word, someone who was attacked but got away because we to figure out his real ammo, who he attacking how many people that he didn't that he tried to get because in a lot of people's minds, as you know that in their head that there were five victims and they call them the canonical victims, the agreed upon victims, but that hasn't tell the whole story, and if you dont have the whole story, if you don't even, half of it, your work, at a disadvantage when you're, researching or you're trying to read up on this to figure out who did it correct? Yes, I'll get. My spoke. The bank holiday murders sometimes, the true story of the first,
I'd chapel murders. I discuss the I believe that the very earliest jack the ripper victims, and has started and laid eighty seven and progress from there, and you can actually watches progression from murder to murder, and then some of those appear in that book for the very first time in a modern book, but damn it started out as violent beatings, that only in the third murdered turned into knife mutilations, and then the knife mean their relations lynn progressed with each killing. And but that that tells us that jack the Ripper was very familiar with the east end of london, in particular george street early, smarter is all seem to have a connection to george street and he knew his way around. He fit in well with these women. He blended in from the martyrs
themselves. We can tell he was taller than the victims that doesn't mean he was a giant. These women were not particularly tall themselves, but I would say he would have had to have been at the very least five eight and was problem they taller than that. He was deaf and way strong because he would render them unconscious with a carotid artery, choke Eric carotid chokehold, which it's basically putting an arm around their neck and then they can be unconscious within seconds. If you ve seen the tv show twenty four, this is what jack bower would use on people all the time where he would put a rather negative side, don't fight it, don't fight it and then, a few seconds later. They were falling, limp to the floor. That was legitimate and that's what jack the ripper would have used on his victims just like today. Most people would not know how to perform one of those correctly but certain eastern criminals did They had even had a name for it in the area. They called it garotting
and the jack the Ripper would this on the women to render them unconscious, lay them on the ground and he would begin mutilating than men some cases took organs with him. So he had not of human anatomy to say he was a doctor or a surgeon or even a medical student. He did have a knowledge of anatomy. In order to do so things he did, and he could have learned that being a butcher or from reading books. But he did have their knowledge. So these are a handful of things that I believe, and some people might disagree with me and some of them, but I believe we can be reasonably secure that what I have done described as a pencil sketch of jack the ripper. It's not a out. It's just a very light. Pencil sketch there's a lot that needs to be filled in still, but that's the kind of person we're looking for take a moment to get a word from our sponsor
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ams found or grapes, but in your book you mentioned: something else that turns out to be lozenges that those common amongst them women. Why think you're refrain to caches or sweetmeats, as they were called, which lists try and handsome in her hand, and basically yeah there. The essentially breath meant I don't know that they require and with the prostitute, but they were common at the time. People have them yes! Well, because if you think about the time what was going on, if you wanted, your breath to smell halfway decent me. You would probably use these correctly is endless. for I had some in hand, although that don't play a part in her murder. I think someone had probably given them to her earlier in the evening, a man had or she had actually more than likely purchase them with her money so that she would smell good because she planned I'm picking up clients that evening, but
the thing here, though, is that there are either found near the bodies in europe, You describe how you believe. Those items ended up, oh the weather, correct, and what believe happened as jack, the ripper. What approach the women on the street and just as any normal client word or john, you know what approach a prostitute and the woman. Would it take him back to apply Some are choosing so that It can have sex now, once they got to this place, I believe jack, the ripper would pull a knife and would rob the woman and say gimme all your money. Don't screamer I'll cut you that sort of thing in this weather get them to comply, and they would reach into their pockets and pull? their money or whatever they had a value and hold it out to him. Now, of course, though, they would not
had paper money, they would have had coin money and when you reach the bottom of your pockets to get the coins whatever happens to be arrested with it or just above it like since, if he had paper that would rested the change as a dollar bill? What in your pocket today, if he reached end to grab the change, the dollar bill would come between your finger, your forefinger in your son. We would be lodged there and that's per iceland list strides hand where a little packet of paper containing the sweetmeats was found between her thumb and forefinger, annie when her items were at her feet, where they would have been knocked from her hand and catherine, as a assemble lady, so saw with a metal symbol was found, to her right hand. I believe, while this points to these women were made to reach into their pockets, for their belongings, so that that would mean robbery and then what
The river had robbed them. He would tell will turn around and they would and that's when he would rap his arm around them. and render them unconscious. There were passing- victims, win You got away from Jack the ripper and you Hold one story. About a woman who was slashed across her arm rather deeply and this is actually someone that other risk measures have been looking for and they ve. different names in the past, but you believe you found if the identity of a woman who had survived a ripper attack? Can you tell us how you arrive at this theory and why you think it's pretty sound? Well, the first one hunters and we know that bloodstains were found.
On a neighbouring street polly nicholls the referendum. She was found murdered on bucks row, but a cross street to that was Brady street and I'm out straight. There was a bloody handprint and there is Neighbours I heard the sound of woman screaming running down the street yelling murder, and this would have been The same night, appalling nicholls was murdered. Now they did not hear polly her hands were blood phrase that blood, bloody handprint was not hers. None of the blood on bravely street could have been polly nicholls because she was murdered where she was found so that and someone else was bleeding and running and screaming same night and I thought that was interesting and Brady. Treatin bucks raw were pretty much across the street from london hospital. The the the hospital in the east end
where. Incidentally, the elephant man was living as just a little trivia factor, but it occurred to me that if someone were injured and bleeding profusely, they would run across the street help at the london hospital. I sent away for their records for the month of september. to see who was admitted with what injuries and I found Margaret Melis, with a very deep wound to her arm there were there- would have bled surveillance should have had a medical attention for it, it's the kind of wound you don't just happen to. You know happened upon. You know something that had something sharp had to do that to you and it's your forearm now, if I'm coming she with a knife. You're gonna hold up your forum.
I do so, it's it. I don't know any. I don't know anything and I'm just speculating, but I believe that I mean I know somebody left those bloodstains on brady street somebody's ranch or screaming murder. A woman did that night. and I have no idea of the woman- was martyr melis Given the timing of all the things that happen, I think it's a good chance that she survived and attack from jack the ripper. Weeks later. Newspaper reports come out. Talking about a woman who did do, they believe survived them attack from jack the ripper. I think those might have been wrong. Ring to her I don't know where they might have referred to, and I think there that law difficult to assume jack. The Ripper had surviving victims Some of you may have never gone to the police and then said roma have gone to the police and who survived, and I
margaret analysis is a good candidate for having been one of those. What brings up a number questions for one. Why would women not report these attacks and to is it possible they knew who had attacked them much. already of prostitutes or attacked, do not reported to the police. That was even more so in eighteen. Eighty eight because too If so, could get them in a lot of trouble. Anna wouldn't have served in the end. They know the attacker, what's the of reporting it, you know it's not like. In today we have dna tests, they can run, they didn't have that, then it just didn't do any good to report it and if they did know their attacker. Then it may have also been a bad idea to report it because if the guy said I didn't do it probably wouldn't arrest. Him reconnect him, and even, if a dead he'd serve six weeks in jail and get out matter than it was before and then go
after her. So there's a lot of reasons. These women would not have reported any attacks to the police. And in oregon lied to them. You know about What happened to them in order to keep from admitting they were a prostitute which was in the long could have gotten I'm in trouble. It's me it's me as you re through the research on this case with any of these women it highlights just how terrible things were for women at that time. We are absolutely we're in great for men either. But yes, they were terrible for women again, there is there something that's difficult to overcome and that's people's perception. So what impact? you believe it has on this case. If more people know that there may have been victims who survived attacks from Jack the ripper, because I really believe most people- and I am not talking about people research or actively read on this case, but the cat
will person who has an interest in this case, I believe that they have This idea that jack the Ripper was very methodical and perfect, and that the only mistake that he ever made worse when he had to commit to attacks in the same night, because he was disturbed well I don't know that I buy that he was disturbed. I think he may in fact intended to kill two women that night and butter yeah. Of course, he was not perfect and There would have been many night. He went out to commit murder and didn't find the right victim or the right come stance and I Leave there were times he attempted to murder and the woman got away from him and the. But having said all of that, he did get away with it. I mean we don't know his name, and We don't know what happened to him. So technically he did get away from her, but he was not a row. Body was not perfect. By any stretch,
He was not a superhero, you know just by a fluke of timing. Where it happened. When it happened, journalists came up with a grin named jack, the Ripper oliver As things came together to create this supervillain that's what he is essentially is in our minds in other mystique of him is that he is a super villain, and all of this house then, just months after the birth of Sherlock holmes who jack the Ripper would have done lemon familiar well. I think that one thing that bull often overlook in this cases. Let's look at today, for instance, in modern times there is a terrible, sir. A killer by the name of Gary ridgeway because of where he operated and who he went after who he was targeting? He was able they kill a great number of people. And I wonder if that's what jack the ripper was king with was picked environment, perfect victims rhetoric,
forty nine women jack the Ripper, I don't know how many he killed, but it wasn't. It would have been nowhere near that number and then looking with it's probably eight or nine. The sheer fact that he got way with it I wonder if just because where he was operating and who he was targeting aceh, him in that and, of course that leads us to one of the. Questions in a case, which is why did he stopped because from indications that we have, whether you think he killed five four, or or nine, there was a when at which he stopped there, as yeah and I mean his murder, spree was rather brief, even by my day Your nine, I feel he killed, transpired between november of eighty seven number of eighty eight one year only one year and then poof he's gone and so yeah. He either moved he died or he went to prison
You know that has to be one of those three things I dont think you just decided now. I've had enough of killing and went back to his normal life. He may have, but I would strongly doubt it bt kay there there, but only after he'd killed but murdering for what fifteen years he never lost. That spark you wanted to screw with people here exactly he he's very much. A guy who wanted to in charge, oh sure, sure, feed, his ego right, sure did about the Ripper. He went the prison for an unrelated crime. He died unexpectedly or he moved to another country. But if he moved to another country would have seen the same killings and we really don't see that we don't see jack. The Ripper come out of hiding in america or anything like that. So I thank he died or he went to prison that's gonna be one of those two back then any number of options to look at and
I agree, I think it had to have been. He was murdered or he died. or he was sent to prison and died, there I mean died there. He may have just come out an old man. You know this is I feeling is that he died somehow and that's just because It did seem as though there was some escalation there and if you look at mary cal, which is probably has most infamous murder anywhere he had gone for after that woman I kelly. Interestingly enough is the for. If and people are familiar with the photographs- and that is the first crime scene photograph, that's it, it starts there. That's the first one where someone took a camera and photographed the body in situ, you know imposition as it was found, there's too, How does a merry kelly lying dead on her bad. That is the very first crime scene photograph that we have been any crime more
any murder, I should say, and so it's historically never again for them and also happens to be the final jack, the Ripper victim asked. Where do you go after? That will once aspect I'm interested in and you know where he went after that is. He went to prison in fact, and he was milking Money out of rich women were threatening letters and he was threatening to pigs them to blow them up with a bomb they arrest he did in fact have the makings of a bomb with him. So it appears that wasn't just an empty threat to get money here. Actually have the intention to explode somebody, but he went to prison instead, and where he served a very long time years and years and years, and so one place
could go after the devastation commented upon Mary kelly would be to watch a woman explode. Had those there's been analyzed, think compared to say the dear boss letter now a man than another that would serve a purpose I don't have its handwriting are we we have hit this? The guy, I'm talk about them outright, the dear boss letter, but most likely wrote another ripper letter and However, the handwriting comparisons I must feed all the suspected that he could write in numerous hands and the untraced, because that's what he did professionally. He was a threat letter writer, interesting He did the year before. The Ripper Mundus write a letter to the commissioner of police at the time and threatened to set fire to numerous buildings in london, and he wrote this letter in writing. and on the night of policymakers martyr. There were two major doc fires that drawn the attention of the police and the public that it is necessary,
means anything. It's very curious. It could be interest because, if you have said a large figure as jack the ripper operating, and then you have this other person that sounds pretty. easy the stuff that you're talking about that he was involved with that's just the kind of care. Doctor, who might be of any that's at least a closer match to jack the ripper, then a challenge because you can put him there. he's a much closer match, because, yes, he, what not only was there, he h upon the scene after the less stride, murder started interviewing witnesses and and then appears paying their money to lighten the police and provide false witness information, a false description of a suspect, yet pretty bernie. Shady and that's gonna be the subject of my third book there, sir. That's not out there yet I'm sure. I'm gonna be looking forward to that. I've had people write in either they had about your new book or I let them know about it. I
I believe that with the books in Europe out now, starting with the bank holiday murders, that people will go, a better sense of what research is when it comes to jack, the ripper or any other serial killer. It really it shows you how there is so much more to be done here and that you can't solve This crime doing a tv show hunting down after one suspect right The tv shows just entertainment, the books or where the really, if you're, really interested in and sleuthing in obeying a historical detective, and in a reading about other people getting in doing it, I love reading books. Where are they author walks me through this process? recovery. You know what I mean like what his head was, and then you know how he got in. interested in in the case and how he started searching in discovering new things. I find that process very interesting when I read it.
At others on, and I think that might have been why I started doing at myself. I don't know, but I always make sure in my books that I include the reader in this process. So they have a better understanding of how I reached a conclusion. As I do, or why I'm not sometimes able to reach any conclusion. Sometimes it's just not possible, there's just not enough there, but they stand in in my books. The reader can understand to some level. Why that's the case? This is What's so important is, as you go along and your laying out the evidence for particular aspect of the case, you the reader s sense of how much you believe in a certain theory or how much you believe in the evidence that you have currently and so I think it it's much than other books where they become dated with yours. This as good as the research is at this point in time and as More information is released. You huh,
that in your head, that your open to new items, not that their new but their new to us, because they're just now making their way to the light day when they ve been buried? four thirty years, one hundred and thirty years right. It's happening change, but our understanding and our knowledge is what's breathing and in living, and so Can my I reserve the right to change my mind on anything, including stuff I've published based on something new that might turn up tomorrow, you know but yeah. When I'm talking in there. There are some things I feel pretty certain about now. Let the reader know that and I'll. Let them know why and then there's other things I'm just throwing out. There is a possibility and I've done that in the past and my possibilities have turned out to be certain. he's because some researcher follows
I bought it and discover something that confirms what I thought. Sometimes they find things that prove me completely wrong on something I've published and I'm fine with that all the way around. As long as people are looking and finding new things, I'm happy that the hunt for the truth, I think and that's what separates a well, show and a well researched book. Correct. at a time when people should start looking out for your new book, I do not. I haven't even started. about writing it. Yet I'm. I'm writing other things right now. upper related. But I don't. I have no idea what I'm gonna start right it whenever I get the jones to get back into Ripper. I think, as it did takes a lot out in a right one of those books, but Whenever I get that jones again I'll start and I can promise you sure gmail airliner appear but I'll, let you know I'm starting on it and then they back on here will be talking about it and is there
more pressure because jack the Ripper might be the biggest case of all time when it comes to crime rate, is third lot of pressure when you're writing to get everything is right, as you can get it, because there are so many eyeballs of your peers who are as much invested in this case as you are. Yes, there is lot of pressure to get everything right. I think there should be and you still make mistakes, I made mistakes and there they ve been pointed out to me. So an upcoming additions are correct. Those bad absolutely there. There is, and there should be pressure on anyone writing nonfiction to get their facts as right as they can. And to be careful and have other eyes look over it, because that's what you What I'm way when you buy my book, I'm supply possibly selling you the truth or what leave to be the truth. Anything less than that is, is a icon job. You know what I'm saying so right
presenting this in saying this is valuable information and I brought you'll get something out of this. When you read it your guidance. Wanna do my best to make sure it's as accurate as possible and do have this or of some an end you call yourselves Ripper ology. Is that a common thing yeah, I mean I like the term. I don't have a problem with it. Some reproaches don't like and they think it sounds cheap and tawdry in there, and I see their point, but I don't have problem with it, a reverie searchers wrapper riders east end, story, ends all all the same thing here, but I use the term reparata just and said: do you have Oh researchers that you can lean on. You can them your manuscript and say. Please check this for me or you know they can be the early reader on your book, o absolutely here:
one hundred percent you bet I do- I don't know what I'd do without em, I nodded into other interviews with you and I can just feel the excitement as new things are discovered new to you in your research and so even today in two thousand seventeen the question discover the true identity of jack. The Ripper has not subsided, not a model. more bucks on Jack the Ripper have been released and the last probably three or four years then were released and the first fifty years following the murders, while that Stop that's an amazing stat tom. What's next from you in the near future, anything people should know about. Let's You I'm right working on some affection right now that is not jack, the ripper or even true crime related. But then I will be starting work on my third Ripper book, which will be the infernal machine.
and I dont have a sub title yet, but it will be a one the kind Ripper book Definitely one of a kind. Well, I'm sure to be great glad to talk to you again tom and damn. Where would you recommend people go if they want to do some further reading on jack, the ripper beyond your books well now some books or the place to go, don't believe what you read on the internet. You can read books Paul bag steward. Evans in ie, eight and ass by their staff, otherwise find me on facebook at the jack, the ripper page, just type in jack, the ripper all caps, find it I'm the administrator, their join that pay feel free to ask questions are just read and you know it and then just pm me. Whatever you want to do- and I am happy to answer any questions you might have- that I am able to answer- will leave it
that time our eye, while, as always aaron, it's love talking with you, I'm so honoured did you keep have me back on your show and I hope it, not. For the last time I enjoy this the
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Transcript generated on 2022-08-27.