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fifteen million members who are already saving star all your shopping at racket and outcome or get the rackets an app to start saving. Today, that's racket in our aid hey you t e dot com, the I do it tonight in pretty good so tonight is a big case, and will we thought about putting this one off for a while, but instead were tackling it we're just going through with it, and it happens to be pretty popular right now because of a little documentary that came out. So what are we talking about in an angle, in case throughout several decades, but

I realized recently on h, b, o by way of the jinx This is the story of Robert durst and ongoing, How shall we say his? He is an amazing ability to avoid illegal precautions for possible actions that he has taken at that the best we can say. I think yeah. I mean you know in our last episode. I talk about people patterns and sky, doesn't have a pattern. I don't know who does? we treat the things would be much more obvious than than most other case. We covered mia it's ridiculous, how it yeah aways Robert durst, here he comes from the durst. State company. They arm multimillion, maybe multi billion dollar company their huge. He

is somehow gone through life with the fund. of his family's money to live We get away with murder or killing people in the here here is today, and he still in the news. So he had kind of us. if child at the right. His his mother, committed suicide and. That's so that's up for debate According to him, his father called to him and he came over and his father said wave to your mom and he looks out the window and his moms on the roof and cheap jumps to her death. somebody disputes that by his brother dispute. then said that never actually happened. That is that there Other fell from the roof of their home. Of course, just Like many other things that have happened long ago, and there isn't, how should we put it? We don't have, but we would sir solid information on it. Obviously there wasn't a video

camera there. So it's were going off of assumption here or rumour, and they say that she possibly was disoriented because of her asthma. Medical in and was up on the roof, I'd like to know why she was on the roof well was cold. It is winter. Dad just call to him and says wave to mommy, one she's on the roof, the stories kind of weird because why wouldn't he be out there trying to get mommy off the roof and back into the warm home? Yet I wonder how far the apple fell from the tree the reason why he's as wealthy as he is, because his grandfather move from Austria to the united states in eighty no two, and they say that at the time he didn't have very may possessions saves pretty poor. And obviously came to america to improve his? You could say

his chances for a better life, and so he work, hard and he saved his money and he got it. real estate. So in eighteen fifteen he purchased his first property in new york and by now Ten. Twenty seven had incorporated the durst organization which is how durst robert durst ends up becoming very well they they own. Some pretty valuable blocks on in new york and other well to do areas collagen. you're playing monopoly and the land on park place or whatever that that's the properties they own essentially aubert's part of this family, so everything's good right I mean he is probably in line to run the company. He's, probably, you know holding a high position in the office and he's got own staff and he ease

a guy for the cooperation right about that, I know that he attains a degree in economics by attending university and then he and roles at you see allay in ninety Sixty five and He meets one of the other people It's in this story. A major in this story named susan Berman Susan in him, our friends, they never claimed to be lovers soon and is the daughter of a man fear so guy and a gangster? and so she meets robert and now kind of the same level Caliber by rich people, high rollers, rockstar lifestyle and she goes on to write to books. it's called a lady las vegas in their both books about

growing up in a mafia style family. Who had said, but what's odd, is that he drops out of school in nineteen, sixty nine and and goes back to new york, though he you know he with that much time there in it. You see allay that he with accomplished something by Do you know if he was able to attain a degree or anything I didn't really look that much into his college staff, because who I mean, to put it bluntly, he's from a very well. Did you family? What is he needed? Agree degree for He doesn't need one mean he can get one and its people, certificate that says he's smart, but he doesn't really need it. He made his. I guess it depends because if he's going to be a part of this company, he needs to bring something to it. I would think even if he is already wealthy, if he wants to help

run it, but I guess that's part of the story, because I would say that he did a pretty good job of making sure that he wasn't in line to run that company yeah andy. Think that was on purpose or do you think he's just got a really wacky personality, both on aim he seems to not have that much interest in the business he said to be honest. If he would be concerned like a free spirit and artists by any means, but he didn't really show a lotta interest in real estate. Apparently, he doesn't get along very well with his brother. So whether or not he right from the beginning, showed no interest or slowly, just kind of pulled is pulled out of it. You know, but He does have a wacky personality, regardless of their had any factor into his disinterest in the business. I dont know if it's like you,

personality work that he, has a nasty habit of urinating in public. Yes, he does one of the things we see early on with him. He said he urinate in waste baskets at the company, which is pretty how I would say I don't. I don't know anybody that we think that was a good idea. it's just my own interpretation, but I would I would say that that's a show of disrespect for the company you I I totally agree I think it's sort of asylum, he sees letting everyone knows that he doesn't respect anybody, and I think that's a running throughout this entire story is that he really does doesn't have respect for anybody else. Shall we move on to kathleen meeting his wife right. That's in nineteen. Seventy one Seventy one he meets Kathleen and he actually is running a spy business like pull through

it's kind of a little girl restore called all good things and. sort of communist sort of title when you in retrospect, but it's you know that he's doing with her at that point. Now must people would probably start with Kathleen or maybe most people would evens. You know the way the documentary the genk started was with morris black, but to me the the appearance of lynn shorts back in. Nineteen? Seventy one is the first kind of staying on record of there's a woman or eighteen Old disappears and she had a low opinion about his store. They got into an altercation of some kind in argument and he was

the last person seen around her an artist did up a sketch up and it closely resembles robert durst, but they had nothing in short, the first person in his life. That goes missing, because the whole dear the genes is either he's. Gainst person or If you hang out with them, you might be changed, essentially line is the first one nineteen, seventy one. He needs catholics, language is the same year that lends shalt goes missing, links missing very late that year essentially, what is said is that he dated her. Or I guess you could say was seeing her for two days before they move in other, so was very quick. and that's another thing that we see with with thursday's He doesn't really

to be romantically. Interested in these women that he's connecting with. That's the sense that I got anyway, and so yes with couple years. He marries her go on to get married and he doesn't take a straw interest in her side of the family at family. gatherings, he's kind of he did. He doesn't really interact with the much just the way you know her family in turkey. Hammond. You know they tried to accept him in, but they say that he just didn't have any interest, and I realise that when people get married one side or the other is always doesn't it work out that way, but it's just something to keep in mind when they got married and so their marriages. I guess it's pretty ok at the beginning, like most marriages are bud, It goes down hill and

They argue alot, they fight a lot and, she is, she's going to school and they're they're kind of I just didn't see a lot of chemistry let's say their care. His friends say that they fought and they say three weeks before kathleen, went missing. She actually went to the hospital with bruising to her face and head Either she took a tumble down some stairs or their their fighting at turn. Physical and that's pretty much. What's the wound she had when she went to the hospital pretty much coincide with somebody slapping earn beating her. So She also she died. And for divorce, ass for two hundred fifty thousand dollar, like several during the divorce? At that time she was asking for the divorce, it is said.

That robert was actually dating another woman, prudence pharaoh Who is the sister of me, a fairer and Prudence is actually credit aid for the being the lady, that the beatles song dear prudence is based off of so she's now high society. and its claim that he was dating her. Another schism in their relationship. I think there's a nineteen seventy six. he gets pregnant, Kathleen, gets pregnant and rob demands that she has an abortion. Has he doesn't want kids. She might not have been completely on board with this decision, but she went through. it and I'm sure there's some resentment there.

in roberts asked about this. He says he. I don't want kids and when he is pressed on the subject he says well, she was dating other people. So probably wasn't even mine anyways well, her friends, don't don't give any claim that she was dating other people. She was pretty much with robert Meanwhile, he is dating other people so that I dont know that that's paints a really rocky relationship to me. We need, about audible. Who is this sir of this episode that we we are doing on Robert durst there. So many options to buy books, and now that I have decryption. I get one free book a month, get to choose from were over a hundred thousand titles. It's a hundred and eighty thousand tiles, that's crazy. They just increased it, namely the title because the size fascinates. Maybe you always seem to get different.

sometimes you get fiction, sometimes you get nonfiction be the last I got was come and authority. There was Tom Clancy book china, listen to some military thriller. While I'm gone, I recommend an audio books for the listeners and that would be to kill a man king bird, by harper Lee. It is an area in all right, rated by says, he's basic and what I ve an interesting about this is that, of course, harper Lee has been in the media again because she's written well. She had written a long ago, but she has a another book. That's direct tied into to kill a mocking bird. I did not know that she would happen she had written the original story if I'm not missed It came down to the editor, but they say wait. You need tell this story so to kill him.

In burma is actually not her first choice by its what was pushed forward and, of course, what if you're trying to get up You need to listen to your editor, I would say that's a pretty good combination, sissies basic reading to kill Mockingbird am he's going to pass that and has just said. You know if you get it and then one thing that can happen You could get in audio book and while you'd like material. You like the story, you may not like the narrator and I've I've run it say at least once I know, I'm not a big audio book listener, but I've had some if the narrator isn't your liking. Sometimes it's not even that they have a voice that you don't like. Sometimes is just the way they read it and that's pretty crucial and I'd say overall they do a good job of choosing whose narrating these stories bed from The time you ll run across someone, it just doesn't work for you, so you can actually turn it and gave her book. If you have a hundred and eighty thousand title the Jews from

there's no way. You can't find something of interest to you and if you ve been on it It's about it There is no harm in trying and dig in a free, thirty day, trial. free audio book. All you have to do is go to audible, podcast, dot, com. forward, slash generation, why it if you're Do you not a swell generation live all say at g An e r eighty, I o n w h why audible, podcast dot com forwards ass generation. Why? Just that it seem like a loveless marriage that he was very possessive and abusive towards her as she has time went on and then of course I do no, if the hospital visit was perhaps the catalyst that led to her disappearance. Or their semi ways you go as I'm sure there are people who defend him and would probably say. Oh she just ran

I am sure that I'm sure some will say that, because we hear that time and time again there are upheld, Just now do I'm I don't know how strongly I would stress that turn because we just don't have any, she's just gone and I so don't know how good these investigators are. That work, the case because we don't Many information. Did you find any information on this she's just she's the citizen missing person correct yeah, so this nineteen. Eighty two, the She disappeared, actually gone to her friends, house go Berta and she showed up very upset and crying friends are kind of trying to take care of her and at around seven p m grow. Calls over there and ass for her they get into an argument over the phone and he's like you need to come home right now. So she led

and all of your friends are really worried about her, because they know that there really screwed up abusive relationship, it's pretty obvious to most friends, are outside of an abusive relationship. What's going on, she goes home and She has to go to school the next day. Robert claims that he takes to the train station drops her off. She gets on. The train goes back to their apartment that they own. That's in the city. To their their little cottage home is in salem, and so she gets on. The train goes home the next day the school gets a call, and a lady says this is Kathleen, I'm really sick. I won't be showing up for for class today, so the school thanks, ok, no problem, and a few more days go by, and

school is now calling around saying where's kathleen she hasn't shown up. Catholics friend is calling around trying to figure out where kathleen is cause. She's, not return. Your phone calls cause she's, really worried about her friend that just left her house and tears after getting a very angry phone call from her husband and after confiding that she's going to leave her husband, so the investor, so her friend is actually the one that pretty much gets them least start of missing persons report. It's not robert Robert gets. pretty much interrogated by the police, and he says I do giraffe at the train station. I older later to you now and talk to her on the phone. She was their home. She was fine, that's

what he tells the investigators they say. Well, what did you do and he said well I'd. I dropped her off the train station. I went to my neighbor's house and had some drinks and then I went on home and then he changes his story later and he says that he dropped her off. Then he went straight home and went to sleep. He just says different things and in the memory. He's like I just told the police, whatever ours is hoping they just go away at. That point is telling the investigators any old story of where he was that night, just make them go away. If you, is missing or gonna, be you know I'll, just just go away. Like here's my story, I was at home or I wasn't my neighbour's house drinking. That's that's what I'm sticking to at how he can ah, you know just I wanted investigators to go away late. There is a lack of respect there again steady, like he's real dismissive he's, he's like air fares

she's buzz off his his old friend susan, comes back into the pitcher to sit, him because his wife is now missing soon and behaves as his pr rap and to the media for him because when you see this guy talk, let's just say that he he doesn't come across very well. Maybe because he's from new york- maybe it's just you know his lax is your town whatever, but he shouldn't be put. Front cameras- so Susan does most of us talking she. tells the media that out. This is his movements. During the night, you drop drop the train station data. She arrived at the building the door man, greeted her and let her into the building. You know she got to Parliament and then called the school and then she disappeared. The next day

So please help us find her and she starts like kind of a hole missing persons. You know campaign to find Kathleen. You know let's go back to another case. We just did about parents and a missing child and dry having the case driving the media. You know driving the investigation the way they want to so already robert and season have said This is the way it went and here's the media and the media keeps repeating this. The doorman saw her arrive. but in reality the door? I cannot confirm that he saw Kathleen ever arrive at that apartment. Building never arrived. Then last person to see her was her husband when he dropped her off at the trains right. Why didn't we enough cases aaron, where we we know that if a spouse or significant other goes missing or is murdered.

the number one suspect in all those cases. That's pretty that's pretty obvious always the husband or the wife and in their own, is the number one say ought to read it I suspect it if they're doing the investigation properly anyway, at this point, susan's pretty much driven the case away from robert and there really just investigating the missing missing persons from there investigating robert at all: they dont searches house. They don't bring amended for any more questioning they just move on say: there's no leads athletes friend is not happy she's not happy with the investigation, so she actually goes in I sent you roberts house, the cottage and salem transport.

in breaking and entering she goes there and She finds that robert is already. thrown away most of catholic staff he's got garbage. Eggs of all our stuff just built up in the closets and the rooms he's in all our male and thrown it in the trash bills. Things like that that you would probably think you know, even if she's gone, he might want to. some of these things around cause. She hasn't been missing that long, so she could Does the investigators of the case and says I broke into his house and here's what I found please, sir. officer out, and they won't do it. They won't even send an officer out to arrest her for breaking and entering so yeah. The investigation right off the bat for kathleen's disappearance, pretty much a fail

They go into to phone records and This is something that I think robert doesn't really have a good grasp. on technology, so robber doesn't like paying for phone calls, and he has. much like a calling card or a collect, call service that he can use for the durst company, so when he picks up a pay phone dial, some numbers recall the operator collect, call and it gets build back to his family's company and he's down in these this shipyard, these ship bottoms- and he makes a couple clock- calls He claims that that they weren't here Is it wasn't him? Somebody had to have made collect calls using. the companies name and when you ask people at the dirt, company. They say no only he's the he's, the only guy that does that and

the location of where the pay phone was any made. These calls from was pretty ass to his salem home. So what are the chances that somebody else was there making phone calls using his calling card. Essentially it just yeah. He doesn't have a good grasp on that. Well, you could say: doesn't that does anyone else well for him. There, flat out deny that he made those on calls when it's obvious, they came from him night I dont disagree with you and want to see what you're saying that what is it amount to write? well. I had little foreshadowing. Let's just say sure we can take that so then we got to appearances now, may or may not have been her just we got to now

nineteen ninety seven, a teen girl name Karen Mitchell goes missing and she had some sort of interaction with Robert beforehand. Went missing. I didn't I'll be honest, I didn't go into a lot of detail on current karen's disappearance, but there The only suspect- and that is pretty much robert there's a third disappearance and his life robert moves on we're. Looking at Oh I, like December. Two thousand, the cops are kind reopening his missing wife's case susan berman is living out in los angeles and she As you like an author and she has her little business but she's not doing too well so this is before that. Is of go find me, but she was asking her friends and family for money and robert. send her checks, checks for twenty five thousand dollars.

that's that's a lot of money. Now he's he's got that kind of money. I mean he's rich, but do we know? that is to support her exactly is this? Is this checks to hey. I hope your business does really good. Or is this a cheque for hey? I hope your business, is really good and you don't talk about my wife's disappearance. Hush hush money, it's possible, but there is a third possibility, to which, as I said, her father's a mafioso. You say why couldn't she just kind of drop a little hint to him? Like you know, I'm a little strap for cash and whatever happened here, wife again, I guess reason. I bring. That up is because of what we're coming up to it. In regards to what happens to susan and so there is there. Must be a reason for animosity here. That would happen

with this situation. Well, Susan, The call from the authorities saying that their reopening the naughty and reopening, but there ray investigating the case of catholics disappearance and that she called robert to explain to him that they're coming to question her about it. So that was right before she's murdered happen that in the same week that susan is murdered, robber is shelly visiting california he's in California susan is in los angeles, southern california she's shot in the back of the head. A letter is sent to the authorities with a letter in it that says cadaver at this address?

and the addresses in beverly hills but beverly. Spelled incorrectly it's inside spelled b e g, ellie. Why and it's written in light, crappy block lettering, so the cops go. Andy investigate this address and I find susan, when's body, but the ball in the back of her head, the cops. Don't investigate robert. Maybe because they don't have any information about the guy, maybe it's just whatever, but they take susan who the daughter of a daughter and a mafia family and said: well, maybe maybe piss. Somebody off. You know she wrote to book about being in a mob family, so easy she wrote, unlike nineteen eighty one and lady LAS vegas, she wrote and nineteen eighty eight and it has yet the year two thousand and she's getting hit mafias doing had honour for book she rope. Ten. Fifteen years ago,

I I don't know how the lapd kind of makes that connection. Ask robber where he was he he just says I was a northern california and I was here and I got a car in this. You know town but then they actually track that he was going south, so they can follow him from very nor in california down the likes francisco, which is well considered northern california, but that's kind of mid california. At that point, it's like well, Why would he go? so many hundreds mile hundreds of miles south, if he's not going all the way south when they Ask him on the documentary pretty much. He says: galiform he's a big state. That's is that's his response. Not so his his friend seasons, dead, murdered, she has a funeral and he is still, and he says, he's

California, where he peoples he was but he d a tender funeral he's. He's upset about his friends murder in her death, but it doesn't go to her funeral back to that. Respecting right. You wonder where you take this. Do you say it's just not respect or is it that he doesn't? He doesn't want to be there for very good reasons. or is it is both, maybe that's how he ends up in these spots, it seems, bloody up Is that see, let him know what's happening and then well team have good information. What does she know? It is, It is, though, I dunno you exactly friendship, but they ve been connected for quite a long time. And she may have been out of all of you. on this case may have known him better than anyone once she this appears? You think, would you know

who stands to benefit the theirs. The one person and that's Robert right. So this is a coincidence, while yeah sure you could say that, but there a lot of coincidence here so again, jinx I don't have a lot of time to sit down to read a book, I'm always on the go going from one festival or made up to another and audible offers mean incredible: selection of audio books cross every genre, although I think I stick to mainly the aea, thrillers and true crime section as an audible member, I can choose one title a month, including the best sellers and new releases audible members get access to a growing selection of audio books, audio originals and podcast their included with your membership. You can listen all you want in mortgage added. Every month, Gillian flynn is going to be putting out a new book soon all the news about sharing penny. You might want to go back and give gone girl or listen. Let audible,

Hope you discover new ways to laugh, be inspired or be entertained. New members contrived for free for thirty days, visit, audible, dot com, slash guida, BP or text Judah BP, two five hundred five hundred- that's audible, dot com, slashed cheetah, BP or text gdp to five hundred five hundred to try, audible free for thirty days were more time. Audible, dot, com, slash, gaeta beauty with written access to over ten thousand work out from world class studios and instructors lulu lemon studio as everything you need to be. Your best see reflection alongside your trainer on a full hd display with the lulu lemon studio, mirror track your heart rate and metal eggs all in an elegant design that fits any space in your home work out with our world class partners, including pure bar rumble and more members, save ten percent at lulu lemon twenty percent at our partner studios and other perks. Sperience lula, lemons studio today visit

hulu lemon studio, dot com and use code, wondering seven hundred to experience lulu lemon studio in your home for just seven hundred and ninety five dollars, plus a thirty nine dollar monthly membership fee. That's lulu, lemon studio, dot, com, promo code, wondering seven hundred full price, asked offered October fourth, twenty twenty two lulu lemon studio content features and member benefit subject to change so moving on goose, This is where it gets really interesting, I think, is robert moves to galveston texas, a little. You know, shore, front town and He goes under an alias and he has skies himself and he lives in this crappy little apartment in the basement of this building and no offense to anyone. If you live in a little apartment in the basement of the building, but it

I saw that the documentary- and you know it doesn't look that knife and he His alias is a mute old, lady of which is pretty incredible so. The landlord only knows him the email staff letter. You know, rent checks in whatever, but the neighbour down the way morris. Black is their gentlemen who lives in the building and Guess him and robert start talking become friends according to Robert they, their friends. They hang they watch tv. They go out for coffee in whatever, together all these things right here, it it'll take his word for it, but how we find out about morris black, isn't because of it

friendship with Robert. I we find out about more black because dismembered parts of his body wash up on shore in garbage bags, so the police are investigating pieces of his body at torso, legs and arms and they identified as morris, and they go back to the apartment com ex where he lives right, well, bed whose their robert First, isn't there right, yeah the mute lady new woman there and indeed to think this is a very, very wealthy person. he's renting a three hundred dollars a month apartment and posing as a woman, and Now many people know this: maybe it was covered. I did not see the jinx by he he was known for having many many pseudonyms.

And many many fake business names. You have to think why he just exist as Robert durst constantly yours, he's. He has credit, has credit cards. He has as things under other names, multiple identities. What is this evidence of this is that this person, his high profile and yet is trying to be exactly the opposite. Much of the time He's he's hiding he's in hiding he's running from things. Yeas constantly high in which is another clue. I think, to this whole case, he's definitely high. he's definitely covering something up and he's trying to throw all people off his is sent. I guess you, say, but he doesn't seem to do a very good job that the investigators, pour the debtor are investigating the

case for more as black, they go to question the old mute lady and they apartment and there's robert. he says he just moved in there. He says he doesn't the meat lady that lived there before him. Even his wife who. question by the police says he moved to galveston after the murder little bit of lying. In whatever so. The cops are looking for somebody that has a a saw two essentially chop up a body with and they catch robert with a bow saw in his car and a receipt for multiple purchases he had made at a hardware store at about the same time. For I too, that would be really good at dismembering a body.

Is clean cut case like they they find his apartment. They buy. And blood in the apartment they find cuts in the linoleum in the kitchen. They they pull it all up, and they know that Robert was living there for a long time for the murder and he is the only suspect in the case, so they I urge with the murder at morris black bond is set at like three hundred thousand dollars well I don't think they really understood who they were dealing with, because robert causes wife gets bonded out. because three hundred thousands nothin to him. And at that point he showed his head and all that facial hair, even his eyebrows. He just shaves everything and he has- his wife send him a bunch of cash,

and he goes incognito not that he wasn't already there. But now he's right. You know heisenberg from breaking bad and for some reason he go into a little market, store and shop this aid chicken sandwich and a band aid there watching the cameras, and they they just Boston because he wasn't gonna go back to court. He wasn't gonna defend himself aegis was I bonded out and I'm taken off. He is fleeing at this point. He said because the trial did you did Do you think of this trial learn what at the crux of trial is the defence comes up with. That was a struggle over again because morris black and durst had been fighting. there is a struggle over a gun and black was killed in self defence and, of course, the

prosecutors were arguing that black was murdered. So what they had to do as they had a convinced the jury. The defence did that this was self defense. and to give you some idea of how well this trial went. They were able to get the jurors to laugh more than once, And they would remarks, I guess, like you know, sometimes you just have to kill somebody warming, The tax is well yeah, I mean don't mess with taxes. Right, I believe, paid the lawyers. He had three high powered lawyers who paid them over a million dollars. Maybe it was one point two or it was quite a bit of money and they are and every penny is they went over the jury during the trial, moors, shot the gun at

either an addiction notice or something and morris, they never found his head. They only found his legs and his hands and you know that they never found his head. Robert says that they got into a struggle morris, had a gun, then robert, you know, got the gun and they struggled and then he shot more the head, but we don't know where he shot more, as we assume he shot him in the head, because that's what he said he did, but we don't have morris's head to verify this also d. Bullet home. The apartment is like in the wall, so the stories loose at best. It doesn't There's no hole in the addiction notice were Robert says that this whole altercation went down. Also Robert has two changes tune from.

More, and I were friends to more. was a grumpy bali that you know that they pay me. how to do a full character assassination of morris and paint him as a a terrible person combative. Here we are more is the bad guy and robert defended himself. Somehow they didn't they The prosecutions like okay, so he kills them. He chops em up, he bags em up and then he throws off his body parts in the ocean which literally just washed by on the shore. They didn't sank. The defence pretty much says all you have to figure out if he defended himself that this, if he killed this guy in self defence, It doesn't matter about dismembering the body doesnt matter about dumping, the body

it in the jinx they they go into great detail and trial depend seclusion doesn't charged with tampering with evidence. Don't charge him with doing things to a dead body? They don't charging than in any way just go after him for murder. He is bound not guilty, and at that point in watching the document my wife jumps off the couch and says They didn't even get him for littering hypocrites I could not agree more at that point. The guy fully It's too killing another person remembering their body and dumping the body parts in the ocean, they don't even get him for littering. What's goin on taxes here? Well, if this was anyone else, I'm sure you could look at that trial and say yeah. They you'd find not guilty, because then I have enough evidence right in and that's that

Kind of the thing here is: if you isolate the moors black incident, you got a point. It can be solved. If you isolate down susan berman, hey hey, she was murdered, she shot in the back of the head and you dont. Look at anything else. You don't have a lot of evidence for Robert. If you isolate or compartmentalize down missing wife- I mean You got there, but this is where I get this, as I just I see other people with way less. evidence getting charged with these things here we are with robert skating, by which insanity to me looking at that. While the way it is they don't it really think it is as simple as which lawyers were able to win over the jury. not even with evidence, I think it was the way they spoke to him it's yes, there is not a lot of theirs. There's nodded

evidence am goods. You could say they could have them somewhere. Another get him in in prison, or something for a little bit, but I think they needed to go online because as receiving mad- and we have more to talk about, obviously, but where it is frank for you in terms of cases they can make against him because for me perhaps This is why the jinx focuses on this is that more is black case is the best case they could have brought against him given how little evidence there is from case to case this one seemed to be. Best case to bring forward and try to prosecute him on well mean it wasn't like there the investigators are looking at all the cases. This is just when he finally screwed up enough it was blatantly obvious. It was him and he

enough money to hire a legal team to prove self defense. You I looked back the jury duty I was on, they didn't just I urge the sky with you, no murder. They charge them with committing a crime, nothing firearm. They charge them with a slew of things. So, if roberts admitting to chopping abbadie up and dumping it again. Why not here? Why just go for a charge one tack on other charges that could serve maybe one or two years in jail. You know tampering with evidence or you know, mess with the investigation. I mean it's hard to they were. Perhaps they would have been able to get even those charges the stick since if they had won over there destiny and won whenever over the jury. How much were they gonna be able to get out of them? The ages, down to they were able to win them over

Personally, and that seem to be enough, no. You didn't watched the documentary I did and I want to say that it is. It is really well done, but in time. I understand that it is very biased. It is very, you know that filmmaker or producer who ever really wants to show you what they want to show you and I no that reality shows are not real. I had a friend we got a tattoo from caravan de here, yet tat you from cat two years forty one on the reality show I mean I get that it's all scripted in his fudged in but in the case of the genes in that he film that documentary over, I think. Two years so in the documentary qana makes it look like it's over a period of a few months and for story line and end. You no sense

entertainment heat, he makes a storyline out of it there. Certainly. that happened in the jenks that actually happened pretty close to the beginning. but they dont show you those things until the very end, because it makes for better ratings and makes it more exciting all said robert is robert and the show, and He doesn't do himself any favours whatsoever and when it comes to just him talking, I you know, that's real, that's him! That's him answering questions. I am responding, stuff and there's no editing magic there, because they pretty much. Let him go want to say that you know oh well, he's p might be a nice guy off camera. Well, that's when that documentary gets really interesting, because its every

well. He says when he thinks the cameras are off and the microphone is off. That makes that whole documentary gold me saying he doesn't have a very good understanding of technology. I don't think this guy is like a serial killer that wants to get caught. I think he really just is clueless and so a couple of times they turn off the the cameras and they stop the interview, and he says stuff into his hot mike. That is extremely damaging to himself. Is it, though, I think you yeah, well I've. I've listened to this a number of times. I did listen to the audio. In fact, when I did the update, did you see the updated, on facebook for this brilliant, for thursday we know I the update, let people know what the next episode will be on ends

figured you'd like. I know, justin's really ant for this. This episode, but I'll read you he says when his mike's hot and you think you could say he thinks no one's listening on watch. And here it is, he says there: it is you're caught your right of course, but you can't imagine arrest him. I don't know. What's in the house, oh I want this. What a disaster he was right. I was wrong and the burping I'm having difficulty with the question what the hell did. I do killed them all, of course. So if you actually listened to their audio, I didn't read exactly as it is stated: you you're the check it out. You can find the saudi on the web, but what struck me about it

was there depending on your point of view, you could take this any or of ways so one glass of hold on hold on real, quick, though aired or a go ahead, but I want to frame it for you when he since those thanks. So what what more money with dream at first, because I can go back and say this either way that last part were he's like well there. It is, you know they caught me. Dad it at all is well Andy filmmakers show him a letter that he wrote to Susan. Then they pull up the letter, that's written to the police, saying there's a cadaver at susan's address and the address on the letter written to the police and the address that he wrote to Susan personally, the handwriting is exactly the same in beverly hills spelled wrong on both letters.

In the exact image in the tat same way right, and I don't care about, handwriting analysis. If you look at it in it, at similar. I don't. I don't need a handwriting analysis. Guy to say all his ends are the same. Are all his whatever's are the same. No, the same guy wrote that letter, so he knew that she was murdered in her house and he sent a letter from literally beverly hills to the police in their there. So it's like. Ok you, if nothing else your at least conspirator to this crime. I don't know Now I want to state that in if you ask the investigators, they will say it's the letter that got him as did not the audio from this episode, but when I going to say is if you, if you just listen to it, and maybe it's because I didn't want the entire show, but when I was

the scene to it. I thought there are different ways I could take this. I could take it as yeah. This sounds like an admission. but he's also stating things that I can't, and maybe it's because I watched the show but not this goes together, possibly like what do you think he means by birthing when they show these two letters. He has a visceral reaction and he starts stumbling over his words and he starts literally having a panic attack on film. Any starts inadvertently are involved, early burping, ok and they show the two letters. So that's what the burping comments about. The other thing here is: is we talk before about his lack of respect, yeah and I wonder, if he's just obvious

He knows this is this is I'll, say this he could sit here. It's probably be standing there going. They're, not gonna get him, but they did at the very least arrested and make him go to trial again, which I am sure he doesn't want. So this going be a huge inconvenience for him, but almost wonder if this is a statement where he's. Playing this game, where you, you know his lawyers are going to argue and say that this should not be admissible. Al you right! This is like a lack of respect for invent. Two gaiters to feed them this and then to watch it hopefully watch it get yanked out from underneath them towards its inadmissible and he Look, I'm in the eye and smile knowing hey you. as no one I'm up to but you're never gonna get me he's he's going to air, a million dollars worth the legal defence and You're going to flip, it

into something that makes them look good, they're going to explain. We detail away and destroy the theory that he is primitive himself with these comments. So do you expect this to be admissible in court that's a hard won, because you gotta find a job that hasn't seen the documentary you gotta find a jury, that's never heard of this guy and he got it de jure. That's you know. You got a lotta aspects there and here here Is it in a documentary film, the the guy that made the film didn't turn over the letters to the law enforcement or the investigators until after his you know, documentary aired caswell. Why would he you don't give up so much money, on such a cool documentary by getting Robert arrested before he's done with it. So heat here he is, I mean I can see throwing out the evidence as well. It's been tampered with, they can throughout

and saying: well, you know this isn't a film, so you can't use it for trial because it's already been put out there in public there's a hunt. Ways they can probably get this to be inadmissible from what I understand the the arguments gonna come down to the legality of it and that he's from the people I heard analyzing it. They expect this to be admissible. but the battle they even for the sake, because this doesn't involve the government essentially now and so she s, he can you know his own way It can be used against him here there. There was no trickery, you know he did it himself, so you know- and I agree with that- I think it will be admissible. That's just my take on it. But even if you were to say it wasn't admissible, the judge can say this has no bearing on the case

Because he s instructions to the jurors, I dont think it'll be admissible, for that is the disappearance of his wife kathleen, but I think it should be admissible for the investigation into susan's death, but- Well, I'm not a lawyer, this think about which trial he's looking at possibly having to go through its decision. One right right his his wife is considered a murder victim. She still missing person there. They haven't declared her legally dead, yet have they d? Actually they did they did when when did they do this? Two thousand and one data- her legally deceased. But not a murder. You make them now, just legally deceased located? That's what I'm trying to clear up here If she's, not a murder victim there,

obviously not trying to find her killer, I dont know what they'll ever charge him with that. the prosecutor in new york, his gun and forum, but she's got him. She's got a gather enough evidence and right now she just doesn't helena all she has is Kathleen's family members giving her. Essentially these you know anecdotal stories and she has Robert's own story of the the events of that night. That don't add up. And have been proven to be lies essentially, but they can. They go interview. The doorman now and say, hey think back thirty years ago. Do you remember kathleen walking into the the thing it just is not going to work out. It's going to be really hard to prosecute that case.

Well, that's something happens over time. The further you get away from the event, the more difficult it is to you his eye witnesses eye witness evidence, it is Your memories, memories are bad enough as it is, and you put decades on their it's just ache. It's worse, You know so they can say: oh well, he threw away our staff he he You know they didn't get along, they can say a lot of things, but it's going to be really hard for them now. Personally, I think he is the only suspect and should be the only and should be the prime suspect in that case, for his wife, I'm sure wicked take up all of our own. since you know I know we don't have most of our audience on our facebook page, we like to get more of them on there, but with the number of people that are on there. If we took a poll I'd be willing to bet that the majority

what say he should be the prime suspect in all these cases, these been tacked on too. That doesn't necessarily mean that he should be convicted in those cases. It just means that. We see him is the likely perpetrator of these of these crimes. Yeah I'd I dont, I mean Only I don't think you are capable of dismay bring a body and disposing of it again kind of like our last one. I I think that there is a pattern and that the fact that he's capable of doing that to morris black means that he's capable of a lot more. I know that's heresy, I know that's an opinion, but I couldn't dismember a body, that's is not is something I could it seems very yeah. You eat you think about it. You think, there's no way. I could do that. We know brothers, not a fan of him. I believe his names it was durst yeah and so Douglas

has said things over time to shoot down. Any kind of character that his brother might might have an. Of course he started with the whole story of about their mother, saying oh yeah, that never happened in our dad, didn't approach him and say you know, look that happen. He also says that that Robert durst had these alaskan malamutes and that there are, In total seven overtime and that they were all named eager and- now eat believing douglas durst. Here he says that they were all killed by robert durst None of us made it more than six months and that it's possible, or it seems likely that he was practising killing and despair

a bodies by doing it to the dogs- and you heard this yeah that's right before his wife's disappearance and robert durst heeded is this. He says that the only had three and that got ran over, I mean he has he's different stories for what happened in there in that. Actually, the third one lasted o awhile for a long time. But here's is that anything in when he, in a was it a philadelphia jail. He was recorded. and he actually mentions that he would like day igor his brother- so we don't know if this is it. This is a contextual thing like if, because I didn't hear the entire audio here. But we didn't, we don't know if he was Making mention of his brothers claims of this and was I guess I'd like to do that to you, even though it in really happen or

He's space was saying the I did do that and I would like to do the same thing in my brother and it in his brother had filed protection orders and restraining order against Robert Anders actual video of robert going to his brothers place, walking up the stairs and it's pathetic. Seeing robert do this, and so as brothers like hey, he he violated, and you know my restraining order, charge him and the police actually ended up, dropping the charges. I mean it's his creepy. It's really creepy and robert is known to own multiple guns and threaten his brother and try to ignore him. So yeah

and after the jinx documentary came out, his brother went on record, saying: I'm I'm glad you made it that way. I thought you were going to give him a fair shake. Well, I think they kind of did they let they they sort of. Let robert hang himself in that documentary. I don't think they really had to paint him in a bad light, because he he did a fine job on his own and if Robert's lawyers would have known that was going to go. They that don't think they would have allowed him to beyond that film at all most really up to them. It is it then his pr people there. Just the people have to clean up his masses, but I'm sure if he had asked them they would, of course you don't need. Why are you may a documentary, you don't need the money. You certainly do need or want the publicity. What is this about again? submit we're looking at a guy who has no respect for others

obviously has an inflated saw sense of self here pretty well, with himself? He goes on record saying Wants to tell his side of the story which boy heap he sure did. That I think that's one of the reasons we're talking. Isn't it yeah? and I think you should watch it there and just for entertainment value. If nothing else I would put it up there right with the staircase Esparza interests goes you have my say that it reminds me now that I've seen it reminds me of the staircase in that they focus on a defendant. His his side of things which the others case does is well problem influence some people watching it are quite a few people who watched it and I'm sure in the first case, I don't know how to do. How did you take it? Did you have a feeling on him before you watched it and then, once you finish

watching it did you have a completely different feeling about him or, to be honest, I didn't I know who he was I'd heard his name mentioned before, but going into that documentary I had no clue. I went into it cold essentially, so I formed a little bit of my opinion while I watched it, but at the same time I kept a very open mind because I didn't want to form an opinion until after I researched, and so again it's it's one of those things where I took it as more or less a reality show and not a documentary, and I I went into it saying you know they could script this they could you know they can make this look. However, they want so I kept an open mind but reading up on, like the the charley project site and a few other,

websites, its again I'm a true believer that people follow a pattern. People can be scripted in their own real reality. Wife and Robert follows a pattern here. In that pattern is one of death and destruction that now leaving much evidence find apparently so Maybe we touched on this already, but what's the final, pretty tier? Do you believe that robert verse where're get sent back to prison at all? Do you think? will serve time or do you think he's going to get off the hook again, just put it this way. I think he's guilty as hell, but I will not be surprised if he walks It's probably not what everyone wants to hear, but you have a good enough legal team. We ve seen this. You know you have it. Not lawyer, you you're walking. That's how it is yeah. I thought I would save being very impartial.

haven't seen anything on him, video wise, I would say They don't really have anything on him, not I have to put him away like the way they want to. I would say- and so I fully expect him to not be incarcerated in the future. in relation to his wife's appearance or the death of susan Berman they ice. He him just being free in the future. This was anyone else. We wouldn't even be having this discussion, Well, because we would know who they were they'd be sitting in jail. Maybe maybe but I'm not sure they have any evidence on him. That's the problem here me it's not like bullets are fired. Have the gun fired the bullets? Do they I just don't see what they have. I think I think what happens if they have the letter, as you put it very well, they have this letter. It seems very damning sure. That's me, suspicious

is, it really mean in the end. You have to prove murder here Ah, you can get is accessory. You can get, maybe you know if they can say: oh well, he he showed up at her apart come visitor and he found. Her body and then wanted to. Let the What is now I mean that even better than self defence, I found her and I wanted to notify somebody even he denies writing a letter. It's it's a simple legal defence going off the moors black He can change his entire story before the court case and get away with it. The

the. In the late sixteen hundreds, the coast of north america, became a hotbed of piracy, but american its were much more than just armed robbery of the high seas. They were also crucial figures in the growth of the thirteen colonies. That would eventually become the united states. I lindsey grant the hosts of wondering, show american history tellers. We take you to the events times and people that shaped america and americans. Our values are struggles and our dreams in our latest series. We take you back to the so called golden age of piracy and review the true stories behind such mythical figures as black beard and captain Kidd loose to the age of pirates by following american history, tellers on apple podcast, amazon, music or wherever you get. Your pot casts within one

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