This episode is brought to you by peacock bridge. Did the original limited series a friend of the family based on story of the Jan roper. Kidnappings from nickel sky executive producer of the act and candy and direct producer, eliza, hip and comes a dark, compelling look at the harrowing story through new lands produce which amber burke herself this theory stars anna pack, when jake lacy college hanks LEO Tipton and mckenna grace stream now only on peacock, taxes age, ass and Y see is the next instalment of the award winning anthology series. American horror story created ryan murphy and brad fell chuck with to all episodes airing each week. It promises to be a season like no other. it s. An Y see stars returning favorites like Zachary window and Billy lord, along with some fresh says, including Russell Toby and Charlie carver. Something evil is coming affects us

age s and Y see premiers october nineteenth on ethics stream on hulu, you forget their justin. Did you want to address any the feedback we got from friday or a church homes well, on friday, we get accused of both sides, then that means

We were somewhere in the middle and arm. You know they even said that you were broken up and I was anti cop and I think It just depends on the situation and the case, and by no means I do, I think, we're either both pro or anti it just and on the situation yeah, you wouldn't have been able to ride around that cop and the ride along, or I really liked the guy too. So I mean most of my interactions are pretty positive I think it was jenny that wrote in and she said I can tell that one of you might be pro, and one of you might be anti is much as I might disagree with that. I at least respect the fact that she saw us different people are not the same person talking out of one soul, and I mean everybody else just lumps us together. I wanted to thank jenny for the comment because it was actually the most on

bias critique. I've ever read our podcast and I appreciated it. Tonight were talking about a case. Scott Petersen. This was big, big news back in the day. What was the date on that? When did this? go down while the day it actually starts as on December twenty fourth, two thousand to and that's in modesto California. Scott is a soon to be dad. His wife is pregnant and it's christmas eve he's gonna go on a fishing trip that morning and she's gonna go walk the dog he leaves and when he returns home later that day, his wife is missing that's a basic summary better before we actually get started. I would like to address those that feel that there were more purpose cases or cases that needed more attention before we covered this one.

The reason why I chose this case was because there is a question here and will into it, but there are accusations and its now a part of the court process because there's an appeal filed, they dont feel he got a fair trial, and there are those that believe not only that, but that he was framed yeah and there's some parallels between this case and maybe a future case. We're gonna be covering and actually a case. We already have covered his well, oh yeah, absolutely so weakened. From there. But I just wanted to let people know. There are different reasons why The case was chosen now and it's the different aspects of this case, whereas some of the other cases that have been suggested, we we'll cover those I'm sure by it. They didn't have many angles as this one. So if about popularity, really

The popularity comes, I think, because it first it tugged on people's hearts when they found out about her being missing, but ass. It went on this case. Just got more more interesting, so there's a he's got his big as it did yeah, and I just have to mention that anyone that's red, gone girl by gillian flynn. If she wasn't basing that book off this case, I dont know what she was basing it offer, because it's almost to a t v just has a different outcome: from here we could go by what scott says. He says that when he left that she, curling her hair that she play and two mob and that she was watching Martha Stewart and he gets details. I e gets all its details right there. There is a marked bucket

out ed, there's a curling iron in the bathroom, and he actually says Martha. Stewart was talking about like moraine, cookies or something and that checks out right zone so far oh good, and he says, he's leaving your fishing now. As far as we know, that's what he told most people is that he went fishing key loaded, his pickup truck with some umbrellas and some other things from the house to store at the warehouse. So he's loading up the back of his truck and he leaves with these umbrellas and a tar. I think ngos to the warehouse were then he can unload the truck and hit the boat with d. The trailer so he leaves the house he gets to the warehouse at around ten thirty in the morning and logs in and checks his email and downloads in

actions on how to assemble some kind of woodworking machine. I forgot the name of it and he actually I'm boxes Woodworking machine cuts his hand it's a little bit on his vehicle, then turns around hooks up the boat right. So he s- going to berkeley marina where he gets a landing, ticket its. I take it that you have to purchase to stick your belt in the water, so he purchases via it's time stamp in everything from the little automated ticket machine in so he gets there. I don't know Levin fifteen ash and the morning between dried to the warehouse, hooking up the boat check and his email and then the hour and a half drive to the marina sets foot his cot. Ninety minutes to the marina he gets there. He goes out on the water any spends about. Ninety

and it's on the water. He says he he trolls up two miles, looks out of a little island and does some stuff and really that he doesn't even fish, though, does he he's as he does, but he says, he's fishing with the wrong lures because he left the other lu, lu errors and his truck and dad checks out. They were found in his truck any had other other ones and his boat both some of his fishing gear? Wasn't it still in the package? Yeah yeah? and the boat does he have any. He had a poor world. We don't exactly what he had the boat, because there was no pictures of what was in the boat at the time of him. Fishing all we have to go on is what he had in his truck so and that was still package yeah again, it's just his statements. Most of his statements are actually checking out, though,

and then what he's fishing for he's, not really able to say by other fisher? say that you can fish for sturgeon or striped bass, yeah, I'm not a fisherman. I don't oh, where the locations are for these fish. I'd know that other fishermen do use this marina and bay to go fishing and it seems to be in line with what he claims he was doing morning, so we re to talk about what happens while he's gone. So his wife takes dog for, walk right. Well, that's what he said that she was going to do somewhere between ten eighteen and ten Forty somewhere in that time frame, give or take ten minutes in the morning a neighbor who is next door. Her name is karen. She spots the dog which is least gist

in the street yeah or in their neighborhood running loose it's loose. She gets the dog and she puts it in the backyard yeah and they have a a fenced backyard with a you know, a gate and it's not locked so she's able to just open the gate, lead the dog back in and close the gate, and then the dog is in the yard and he's contained, but the dog was off by itself yet with it's leash on which is kind of odd right. So Scott goes on a fishing trip heap, he comes back and he actually calls and leaves a message for his wife he's heading back at around two p m to eleven p m is what he says and he actually

stops at a chevron station at around three twenty five pm he's got a receipt for it and he gets home by four fifteen for twenty ish and he finds the dog in the yard. He sees his wife's. A land rover was that what it is yeah landrover then he finds his wife's things like her keys and some of her off. I believe our purse yeah her purse, and so he thinks maybe her sister or parents came bide can picked her up took her back to their house because he surprised to see her car there and she's. Not so that prompts him to call wrong, but he isn't call right away now he

surely washes his clothes. He removes things out of the washer takes his clothes off because he says they were wet from his fist. Trip in only washes his clothes These were dirty rags and he says he watches his clothes separately because of all the chemicals he works with that work, so blah blah blah, but he's not working with chemicals. Here his clothes are simply wet from his fishing trip, but he decides to wash those separately. He also pours out de mop bucket. That appears to be unused to him. He said it appears that shit do any mopping. Annie can't find her and he takes a shower and eat something needs pizza and he says he actually takes the slice, a pizza into the shower with on which-

that's a little weird but whatever, but the pizza boxes out so again, lots of his statements are checking out at least with where he says he is and in in what he did with receipts and stuff. So it met. That's when he calls wrong- or she's parents, which is about an hour later. The timing, some are realises that things are a bit off and he I left a message with lacy in the answering machine was unchecked, so we heard his own message. That's when he calls ron now sense of urgency to call ron not so much but I don't know I mean yet run- is laces step dad and I remember correctly he was basically or dad from the age of Who yeah yeah? I know he was a step down, but I just considered him. The father write her bio, dad divorce terms

her share when she was just a baby. They say: lace he's not with them, and this raises some alarm bells- scott, as he goes around to the neighbors houses and starts knocking on doors and asking if anyone's seen her and they notify the police ball ron makes a call to the Please you because no one one to report lacy missing and he gives the information she's eight months, pregnant and and here the police do something amazing. Normally a person ass be missing. Twenty four to forty eight hours. Police, immediately respond file and missing persons report without the toy, for our period in literally jump on this case and start moving in hunting in trying to find lacy. They start

search along modesto, dry, creek and again, it's probably based on where I think she might have been walking with the dog with the dog because she was supposed to take the dog to a park near the police, go to the peterson house with a search warrant on the twenty sixth, so the day, after christmas day after christmas, but as far as I know, when the police first get their scouts very cooperative and let them go around the house. He goes with them and they go around the house and he lets them look everywhere now so if you're wondering was he cooperative, he from all reports and from all the witnesses, at the start, he's very cooperative and shows him his landing ticket. He shows his receipt from the chevron gas station that stop that and he even allows them to check his computer too

verify that he was sending emails from his work computer at the warehouse, and even allows them to check out lacy computer, were it's clean she logged in that morning that, like eight something in the morning to do online shopping at the gap, the other multiple computers in the household and there's one computer that he uses and that's the only when she uses the rest of them are compeers that scott uses yeah now would be like my household. I have like ten computers, but mullahs only has one in and its verified that in the morning before he left on his fishing trip that his neighbor kristen came out and he waved good morning to her ass. He was loading umbrellas into the back of his pickup truck. Where does this come crumbling crashing down at some point, despite scots helpfulness there, thinking about his activities that day and they're all

thinking about things they ve seen and when they're putting it together in their heads. There certainly become very suspicious of scott he's, the last person to see lacy glass, confirmed, yeah and he's the spouse. This is a deal I mean we always make a joke the spouse. Look. The boyfriend was not really a joke. It's part of the process yeah since some people are murder by people. They know is it on the twenty eighth that they start searching awry that marina yeah because they're following scots footsteps, where he said he was and verified where he was. I think there's a lot of things that kind of sparked their suspicions I dont know like. Why would you go on fishing on christmas eve. Well, there's a counterpoint to that lazy stepped add, went fish, the same day, probably about.

an hour later, so he went fishing as well, but to explain this in a way that separates there to activities. Is that her step dad that's his love and he's real fishing he's retired. He loves fishing. It's his passion. Scott is not known to be a fisherman fact It would be a stretch to calm and amateur. He didn't really know much about, wars, and he didn't know much about what type of bait to use and he didn't know what kind of gear you needed for which kind of fish yeah and this boat purchase was fairly recent. He purchased sit on the fourteenth of december any purchases of fourteen foot boat and he pays cash for it. Yeah some say that he pays cash for it to conceal the purchase, but at the same time lacy knows about the boat or may have known about it. Yeah and there's a question there, but I actually think that the boat was

fairly, I mean he's keeping it literally at his work warehouse. So let's break this download that you brought up that she knows about the boat. Well, when she at the warehouse she couldn't use the bathroom. that she would normally use their your cat? So I don't know if that also meant she didn't get access to. Where the boat was it's possible. She had to use a different bathroom yeah This is something that we know about from a witness. They said that she ended up. When you go to would if, where our cities restroom, because she couldn't get access to the other one. So, for I know maybe had locked up or the boat was blocking access more were not too sure we. We know that the defence says de warehouse was jam, packed full of stuff and he couldn't have even backed his truck. Ended the warehouse to hit the boat up. He had to just back up to the dock door or the

the warehouse door to do it so things like that yeah. So we don't really know if she saw it, but we do know that she was there on a day when the boat was there yeah, but also There is evidence that he had made homemade anchors You can buy an anchor or anchors, but I guess they can be kind of expensive there. Third three dollars and anchor, or you can just take a bucket, pour some concrete in it boom. He got an anchor. I have a question, He seemed like a fairly well to do. Guy yeah he has bachelors in agricultural business, room cow polly, they live, in northern california they have a land rover there was witnessed. money that homemade angers are a thing that people do and because their cheap. And you don't need anything fancy they get. The job done

Why are you worried about saving a few dollars when you have money? I dont understand that. Personally I it is a miser, maybe I'm a miser. Is he I don't know, that's the thing is it I get it. I know there was a big deal about the prosecution talking about him using a water pitcher for the mould for the concrete anchor when it was really a home depot plastic bucket. Dont, really know why that's an issue he made a boat anchor We can't see words in front of improperly, maybe can't see, what's literally in problem, but in ways of what they see is there's one homemade anchor present then there are these cement rings from where the other girls were set down, but those all gone there for missing anchors that he created there. Eight pounds apiece right, some

That it would about thirty two pounds. Roughly I heard between eight and fifteen pounds, peace I mean a barge range yeah. There's com oversee over at some people say that he just made one and that's all we know about. You can't say he made more, but there are these rings left there is evidence, in the same areas the one that was set aside. There is evidence of additional anchors that now are not there, but then he says that he used them in dr way or something? I don't understand why this wasn't followed up, because I've seen right ways being down or whatever, but I dont know how you could take these homemade anchors there in the shape of these buckets and use them in your driveway? Don't you don't they

the explanation would be, he used the buckets to poor concrete, but you wouldn't mould abode anchor and then throw that in your driveway, because concrete doesn't set to concrete, it's already been set unite. A steady poor also await all solidifies together, exactly cause otherwise you're making weak points. If you're throwing big chunks of concrete into a concrete poor just doesn't work, I have some cracks in the back of my patio and on the back of my house, and I said: can I just poor concrete over it in their like? No just send it doesn't work that way now didn't verify that he actually did driveway work at any point during this. I couldn't verify that so I was sort of just Ok, he claims he use it in his driveway, but is there any verifiable source that he

in a new driveway. At the same time, I couldn't find it they do interview some of the neighbors who say they saw lazy walkin around right or do you wanna go to something else? First, there's a witness pulls up next to him and she tries to get his attention to say, hi and I think we're. Alerted her was it seemed to her like the stuff in the back of his pickup truck, some of it look like it might come out, so she was trying to talk to him and he stepped on the gas when he could go. He just got out of there really quickly. Music money and turned his bonds, it'll be whatever might have been too loud. He says he saw her. He appeared to not want to talk to her but she could be their neighbour that no one wants taught him exactly right of great here, I'm so, and so yeah strew, we don't know other neighbours, surely say they saw lazy, walking the dark, correct guard differ report, some state that they

ah lazy. There is one person who said that they saw a woman walking a dog and that the war and the dog fit the description and at two. Men were basically accosting her yelling at her cos. at her. I didn't think too much at this because the woman said is look like it was heating up and then she decides to go inside of our house. So she's about to see two men a cost. A pregnant lady was a dog and she decides to go in her house wow either. That is the worst this ever or that's the worst witness after her. Whichever way you look at it either she walked away from could have been a murder aware were an altercation of something or she's making it up you know, look at lulu lemon and that the apple store employees mean some people, don't want anything to do with things as she was far away. She I've been in the middle of anything

private anyone notice her there that sort of shaky- I don't know if I buy that people will give tips that are false. People will give false information and there's any number of reasons why they would do it. Some people just like to be a part of a case. Now she can go on and tell everyone she knows. Oh, I called in a tip. I have a tip yeah anyways, some of the neighbors actually do say they saw her walking the dog, so it's very possible. She did take it out for a walk, and it's not verifiable that scott had left before she took the dog for a walk or not This is all happening sort of simultaneously. Well, who knows anything is going to happen right. Yet no one saying around taking notes like oh there. She is walking the Dodd and Scott had just left mean the neighbours that nosey in a random normal day, You remember most of this stuff. I don't know so anyway. I guess we're trying to say is there are people who will

They saw her walking after he left according to his timeline. Yes, so I don't have a lot of time to sit down to read a book, I'm always on the go going from one festival or meet up to another and audible offers me an incredible selection of audio books cross every genre, although I think I stick to mainly the thrillers thrillers in true crime section as an audible member, I can choose one title a month, including the best sellers and new releases audible members get access to a growing selection of audio books, audio originals and podcast their included with your membership. You can listen all you want in mortgage added every month, Gillian flynn is gone to be putting out a new book soon all the news about sharing penny. You might want to go back and give gone girl or listen. Let audible help discover new ways to laugh, be inspired or be entertained. New members contrived for free for thirty days, visit audible,

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hey you t e n dot com that that's why you have people say while he couldn't have done it then does he live without her, depending on how you see that, whether you believe those witnesses or not the dog coming down, in the street with its leash on that could either be a sign that, yes, she was abducted or he released the dog yeah after he left he's cooperating with the police. Most of his statements are jelen and the search teams are doing candlelight vigils but he's absent from the yeah they're, making statements their pleading with whoever has lazy to let her go at one point, one of them's I think it might be your mother says be blue, Let her go run away from us. We don't care it is why are lazy back here and he's not saying anything now. I don't know what to do with that. Some people have

it out that when he was at a wedding, he grabbed a microphone and talk for like ten minutes and is did this elaborate speech in was great and he had no I was speaking from people but again its context. This is not a wedding is not a great celebration who knows he would later given interviews stating that this was a strategy on how to deal with the media to get the media more involved, which I dont know how not giving a statement gets them more involved. But that was his statement saying I didn't say: thing so the media will get involved. Whatever you want to do it that logic. Somebody could explain to me I'll still, disagree well and also at this the families feeling strange because he's not according to them he's looking them in the eyes when he talks to them he's looking away any is moving away from them, so he's not taking any hugs and he's not

during any questions from them its round january. Fourth and fifth, they really start checking out them Lena. I just need to say that, because, judging by these past, missing anchors and the fact that he went. That day, which was out of character for scott, because he was not a fishermen. If he had gone golfing like he had originally told a few people, they had gone golfing. That would be explainable because he did enjoy golf yeah and he loved go into the country club, so that would have made sense And, of course, some people bring up the fact that act if he had been seen by several people at the marina. Who knows if he would have said he was there, there's multiple statements here. So this is just one of them. He says he doesn't go golfing because it's either raining or to wet. So then he decides to go fishing. Now, when you check the weather reports,

wasn't raining that day, but doesn't mean that there wasn't do or moisture or something that might have made golfing less pleasure I don't know for a fact. We don't know because yemen, I dont like all yes, but at the same time, if it's not good golfing, whether I dont know how that makes good fishing, whether cause both are outdoor activities. To re meaning, you dont want to go boating in that and if it's cold out, you probably don't wanna go boating and that either. This is late in the year in california and its northern california, and it's cold and northern california in California yeah you guys got seventy degrees all year round. Yeah. I don't want to hear about it. Northern California, it gets cold, really cold, so may as well be portland oregon it. It may well be ok, so another thing that happens obviously

as they keep diving and searching and endure using every technique. They can dive teams, using someone are he makes many trips to the marina five, five or six? I think they say it's five and care now. One thing they report on is he uses a different rental car to go to the marie on every trip. Tat is true and it sounds really bad, but there is a logical explanation: David pounded his truck and his wife's vehicle because they're going over them with a fine. he's com to see if there is any evidence of a dead body or foul play in the vehicles, so he has to rent cars. They had bugged, his truck yeah and because the investigation really has focused on him. Like you said they really want to go over these vehicles and make sure there's

nothing, nothing there or if there is something they want to know about it. In fact, one detective says that when he went over and when scott was being cooperative, they will go into the vehicles and he opened up and struck it or almost struck laces vehicle is scott's truck and scott came running over with his glove hey, hey and he was all kinds and about his truck getting marked out, though it is just a point to say the detectives ur sir Looking at him and thinking he's acting suspicious, he goes on to sell his wife's vehicle him by another vehicle which again that looks pretty bad. Thank you.

As a dodge truck yeah. But the explanation is his truck was still impounded. He got his wife's vehicle back first and he claims he asked to continue doing his job, which he works and fertilizer, so he doesn't want to put fertilizer in his wife's truck or his wife's land rover, which is like an s u v, so he sells her vehicle and gets a truck. Now, that's a logical, one, but that pretty much tells me he's not expecting lay siege to come back either. He also transforms the nursery into a storage room There are statements that he makes that lead people to think that he is not expecting them to come back yeah and it's not just his statements, it's his actions, but when people say do you think your wife's dead, he will come back.

say absolutely not dont, say those things, but then he turns around. In does these things as if she's gone, he makes statements of I lost my wife. He makes statements of will laces family have access to grief, counts councillors and since day one he ass having come on man really bad behaviour for somebody who lost his wife and soon to be son, Yet there is a chance she was coming back at you, imagine the hell. He would go if she saw that he had transform the nurse three into it. A different kind of room, where's, your car and her car gone gauges doesn't now some people say that he needed the money that yes, the vehicle didn't fit his needs,

and he was in a bind because all the vehicles were gone now that he got one back? He was going to use it to get a vehicle that would serve a purpose for him, sell the boat while the boat wasn't worth nearly as much money as the land rover, true, but the vehicle he bought to replace them moreover, was a low cost pickup truck right. I think he was I its temporary that I'm just trying to make sense of it from the other side got it he's not expecting them back now, he's not. I don't know how else you can argue that he thinks there still alive and going to be found rescued whatever returned so its middle of january when the police and form laces family about scott being with another woman year. But I want

they are frightened. This is one of the reasons why people have a problem with this case. Absolutely because when this woman's revealed, the public really turned against him. Yet because up to now is basically the police, and I think laces family was feeling little legs there was the problem here, but this is when the public is like: okay, Scott's evil. He gets slaughtered by the media and public opinion. I guess I feel bad for the guy if he is innocent, but it comes out that he's been having an affair for the last. What, month with a woman named amber amber fry now, the reason why he meets her as because of his work as a fertilizer salesmen, he'll go to sales conferences and one of these he met a woman, I think it is in october anyway, her name. is Shaun simply at times he's engaged and people that are with them. There are a couple of people with

there's Eric Olsen who works with scott and then there david Fernand as they are uncomfortable with the conversations these two people are having by it. Really, when it comes down to it. Scott ends up asking sean if she has any friends that he could meet and she comes up with a person named amber fry and she does ass scott, though, if he's married, Anna Scott says no course not by some, I'm later shall end up calling Eric asking him. Is he married- and I think this where she figures it out, because Eric says ask petersen: yes, his response, so I feel like something's going on as soon as is soon as he doesn't answer the question. That means yes, the ends up telling both sean? an amber that he lost his wife yeah the

thing is you can go on youtube and you can hear all these conversations that amber ends up recording because she ends becoming essentially a mole, and she can get all this information from Scott now. Did she get him? Did mitt guilt? No, did she get him to say anything beyond having lost his wife? No, he doesn't any details. He doesn't say how he lost her. So even what that means. I mean just imagine that there is a man, his wife

missing he's in the limelight. Please find my wife. Then it comes out that he has a mistress now amber the woman he's having an affair with is shoved into the spotlight. People are asking her questions. They have had an affair for up to a month before the his wife does missing. Now the police are tapping the phone and trying to get amber to get him to admit to things, and I listened to and over an hour's worth of amber in. Scott's call together. There is a book that I read called spy the lie in it's written by a a cia interrogator and he talks about deception and things that people do when they're trying not to answer a question now. I know few

Ah the interview with Diane sawyer or so many interviews, that's got, does people say they think he's lying through his teeth? If you listen to the call that he has with amber it's all deflection, it's all evasion, it's all just anything that has to do with his wife's disappearance. He says once they finder all will be revealed, and it's an hour long conversation of him just repeating this is. I wish I could tell you, but I can he doesn't even say. I can't tell you, because the investigators are telling me not to. He doesn't even give that disclaimer here and even say, because I don't know anything now. He says I know things and I just can't tell you, but once they found in my wife and she's, like your wife's dead by. It goes only plays it off like, but he said all will be revealed, but nothing

was revealed when it was all said and done was it. This is again. This is where he gets knee deep in trouble. It comes out that during the first vigil they had four, He was on the phone with her with amber telling her that he was in paris. He was in the eye, tower, as they were nobody knew years. This is communities come together for is missing, wife and he's on the phone with his mistress telling lies what a guy, where you can get it. But the problem is that his wife's missing and you would think he would say This is too much stuff to deal with right now how megan and deal with her to the heat goes on like everything's cool, I dont even understand that lie like it doesn't make sense, makes zero sense to me why he would lie to amber. something so simple to say, yeah, I'm here, where we're doing this thing right now talk to you later, but instead he's a compulsive liar.

He has to tell her alive because How else is explained not celebrating new year's with her, because his wife's missing, he can't tell her about this this is the strange thing- is she's going into finding out that not only Is he married and has a wife? That's missing by that he's a prime suspect yeah and that's going to change everything she turns against him. Hence the recordings gear, and it comes out that he had a few other affairs investigators, say two more women came out and said they were with him and as soon as they found

he was married. They got up and left now. I didn't find the names of these two women. I didn't think it was that important, but the investigators verify that there is at least three women that Scott had affairs with, including new quitting, amber well, from all that were really trying to say is that he's lying he's living another life, so it's going to create problems this is where he almost can't help himself, but this is where you see like with David, cam or michael Michael Peterson, Well, you see them doing things on the side automatically. That gives you motive to kill your wife. That's what prosecutors are going to use against right? I emotive. I would argue, though, that what it shows, as they have a lack of concern, but without this way when they go to serve the second warrant on his home they inner

up while he's on the phone, the porn channels that he had ordered two weeks before, which was after his wife, went missing, so he's ordering porn channels. Now now he's trying to cancel it because I think he understands all this is coming out and he needs to just get rid of this as quick as he can, I think, is just an idiot because he's paying for porn, but I get the point yeah the the the microscopes on him and he needs to clean up his act, but he's now been pretty much, published as a liar. Obviously we brought out there is a trial that comes out of this, the bodies with its about four months and at this point the police are filing a no body, murder. Charge against him right, while they're doing that. I think it's because they feel they have no choice near. They want to move on and as quick as possible with all the negative. Us about in their feeling, confident, because, typically when you,

no body. You need something to show that there was a body near and they just don't have that. So I think there there really hinges on the publication. Now we have all this damning evidence against release in terms of its credibility, and was close, and he was last one to see the victor misinformation or not. It looks bad for him. Windows, his child washed ashore. Well, it's about four months: yeah, the child wash the shore first and then the next days when they find his wife's body, so I dont know if they washed it literally within moments or hours or within a day of each other, but its fairly close janus that they're about a mile apart in terms of location here and about a mile away from berkeley, marina as the crow flies.

I mean I driving wise. If you're gonna do a google maps, I hope nobody goes out their assets for point to my. Oh, it's it's very close to the berkeley marina, where these bodies show up and there s a decomposed state that shows they ve been in the water for a long time. At a time they figure out that his son was poor probably still with an lay see an through decomposition was expelled. Lacy is missing her head and her limbs, so it's just her torso. I think it's too. I have to say that she's missing these things, though, because if you would away

somebody down with anchors. Where are you going to tie those things too and if you tie them to the limbs and they slowly decompose? What's going to pop up their torso yeah, it's quite possible that there is, I think, a quarter of an inch of the the table- local court- oh that was still attached to the child, and they said because of the way it looked it looked like it had been forced apart, not cut, which would go back to the natural exp. Expelling I have the child yeah, and I read about this tape that was around the child and it didn't sound like someone put it on. There deliberately look like it kind of washed over and got stuck there, because it was like around underneath the armpit and over that's random. It was haphazard The tape is a situation where I justice.

That she was taped up and tarp and when the baby's body came out, it just got entangled in de right, because things pro slowly loosened slowly come apart, saw mixing together in a certain area, now all graphic will get. If you want to know more, tells their online, for whatever reason they tried saying that someone had delivered the baby in the taped. It but then deposited it. I just what what is that? I just doesn't make any sense, while this they had moved on and as soon as they knew that the buyer is it shown up, they moved on him and they want to arrest him because if he finds out first it I've come ashore or been located. He might flee yep so tell me how do they fight scott, because as far as I know, in recent days, here

in very hard to locate he had He had died, his hair blonde and grew a goatee change, his appearance, very robert dirt style, and he was found at the country club, that's where he was arrested. Now his vehicle was packed full of stuff. They found fifteen thousand dollars on him. Cash camping gear business suits. Viagra and a whole litany of other things, not all of those things were allowed to be presented a trial yeah but advocates for scott will say he wasn't fleeing. So I would say he wasn't actively fly

saying at that moment, but he should look like he was ready to. I dont have fifteen thousand dollars in cash and camping gear and my vehicle at all points and times it's that mean I dont know how common sense doesn't prevail here he wasn't fleeing what was doing then, what chilled me about the situation was he had been asking amber to meet him his legacy, One of the things he said was that he was finally going to take the polygraph that he had said he was going to take and then didn't take, tat. He was finally going to take any wanted her to meet him when he went to go. Take this polygraph dear And it's just one of the incidents where he said. I want to see you well in his vehicle. He has a map of the city. She lives in a fresno. Now what is indeed a map of fresno? He knows where she lives they been having

they're. Well, I don't know I mean they only had so many dates. Their first date was on november twentieth. In fact, on simply watches amber's child, so they can have the state and I won If he'd really gone to her place or not, and that's possible I'll conceded that, but what I'm saying is, as he has a map of the city she lives and works in, and his cars loaded up with stuff. and he's asking her to meet with them. This is this is the when he knows is, has turned against him dear, but was the plan there and you brought the polygraph, he had actually refused to take a polygraph from the police. Now I dont put much stock in a polygraph myself. I know we kind of

for a little bit on that. Well to me, it has to do with the intent if they feel confident in taking it. I think you have to give them some point, but when he was asked by reporters an amber, why don't you want to take a polygraph? He said the investigators told me not to talk about that, and then they changed the question to. Would you be willing to take one any says. The investigators told me not to talk about that now. I know investigators tell you to keep your mouth shut, but really you can't give an opinion. I come on dude it means no on that willing to take one, because I don't think I'm her pass it just plain and simple, if you're not willing that means you're, concealing something you're being deceptive, but to your point, what's his plan with amber,

Why does he want all of a sudden meet her in wise, his car, all loaded up like that he's obviously about to flee, and is he going to do harm to her as that sort of the insinuation here, I think it's a possibility. And some would say well he's arguing for his innocence since day one. Why would he want to do anything to her as she's a damning element to him and if he's about to disappear, why not tie up loose ends right? No he's arrested and he gets mark gara goes for his attorney. I or people I've heard of him high end attorney. Tie dollar. I think the trial pretty well only well. In what sense I mean it goes, just as I would expect most trials to go. I dont think there was vulgar displays of miss hale?

the wing of evidence, I don't I don't see it now. Were their mistakes made? Does the prosecutors theory have holes in it. Yes, that always does we don't know what happened so the prosecutor has to literally make it up. He s too deconstruct in may get up and, as usual, the prosecutors theory isn't perfect ever. But people like to point out how wrong it was an m, I'm thinking. Well, I look at cases like add not and other cases where I can say the entire theories pretty much wrong. But in this case, though, the process yours, pre, on par because he's using most of scots own placement for his theory right, so why? They went over the crime scene as they put it at least inside the house. They couldn't find blood evidence

couldn't find any evidence that showed that there was a crime committed there. There were odd things, but there wasn't anything they could use to show that He had committed a crime there, so what they are there. I is that at some point either the night before sometime after lazy talks to remark, which was in the evening it like nine thirty years one thing- that Scott must have either smothered her or strangled her and then wrapped up in a tarp and then put her in the truck and then put the umbrellas over the top, because the umbrella be a perfect cover for a body cause there. The size of a body. Yet, though, cover up that tarp. And then used his fishing trip to take her and the anchors dump it and dump her in to the bay. That's their theory. Now, there's there's holes with their time line,

is she probably was still alive in the morning now they say this because of the computer right yeah. They say that because the computer was accessed- and you know whatever they also say, because market Martha stewart was the tv talking about marine cookies. Well, let's talk about that because he could have turned the tv on and got that information. I guess what they felt was strong. Evidence was that the computer is used to access a couple of different sites that worse I such only she would look up clothing and why would he think to do that near? So that's the question. Maybe she could have still been alive at that point to get on the computer, but he was the only that actually interacted with her that morning, whether or not she was alive that morning, all we have to go on is: did deed neighbours actually see her walking the dog

I don't know how relevant this is just another piece of the puzzle, maybe or maybe it's not, but of the computers in the house. Only her computer was clean, meaning the other peters all head. I guess you could say large amounts of pornography. Having pin look it up on it I found very strange. Was they said a good portion of it was either bondage or beast reality, and it was on all the computers except the one that she uses while because he doesn't use her computer because he knows what a history means and she would see that you start typing in the gap, clothing and you're going to get something bad rent the trials going on, and there they're going through these things and what his defense attorneys trying to do. And against in what the prosecution is. Framing you not framingham, but but structural laying out their theory, and so there

through and trying to show how you no witnesses couldn't probably didn't. Her or they're going to do all this? evidence. The defence is trying to show that She was still around after he laughed so that couldn't have done this in the way that they theorize and the defence does a job of putting a big question. Mark on some of these witnesses that they ve used like? the neighbor who says oh yeah, I've? I saw dog at this time or have you so at this point you think wall. If the defences doing good, they must be winning but, as we all know, by now turn out that successful will they find that pair pliers with hair in it in the boat and the hare turns out to be one

He sees hairs. Well, that's in question because I know the defence questions it the way. The defence questions is, they say, first of all claim that a hair was found in the pliers and it wasn't just laying on the pliers, it was through the pliers. There was in the clan light so when clayton to evidence later they find out. There was actually to hairs that we're together and then they did dna testing on the hairs, all the I can say is that they were probably a white persons are caucasian persons hairs. They didn't actually get it a man. too lazy or her. They said it was consistent with laces hair. It was not consistent with scott tear, insistent, I'm guessing what this means, based on other times, that her hairstyle or hair texture they magnify it, they look at and they compare and depending on the However, your hair and features of the hair they can,

say well. This looks very similar to this other hair that we collected from say her hair brush. I know that's not a perfect science. I bet they can allow many people easier than they can match yet also scott having different colored hair them lacy, They can say yeah. This one looks more brown or what have you doesn't look right. My my my wife's hair is all over the house. She sheds, like, like dar three animals or three dogs, just sheds her long black hair everywhere, but I'll tell you where it's never going to be on a pair, wires. She doesn't touch my tools at all. She doesn't even know what they are, so I felt that I was a little weird that a pair pyres would have to Harris had remember you brought it up. Supposedly she visited the warehouse where the pliers were and she picked the pliers up. Pulled some strands hair out of her head or heap attacker with the pliers.

Has he thought it was a fine little game? Ok, I it's possible here is a problem have with this scenario, is who knows, maybe people disagree with this, but I would think that if you with your husband. new his warehouse and he had a bow. You ve never seen before? He would probably tell someone about its ale scott about we're in a go on the boats, I may be here. What have you that doesn't ever come up, though also the defence claims that he, the boat, is so flimsy and unstable that he couldn't have taken her body out on the ball and dumped it over the side of the boat and they get a very similar boat and go out on a pretty rocky whether day and a guy a clumsily attempts to toss up,

sandbag body over the side of the boat, and he almost comically capsize is the boat in his attempt- and this is the defence saying yep- you couldn't have done it. And then you here that the prosecution says hey, why don't we redo that experiment with Scott actual boat and with us present and the defence refuses so conover abs test experiment, whatever you want to call it it was just so ridiculous to watch what were some of the other defence points they were bringing up so There is a theory out there that she was abducted and their differ reason why she could have been abducted

was this the roving say: tannin colt or the burglar robbery thing across the street. I thought we covered roving, say ten colson are said: Hannah panic episode, yes, really interesting, because you have people come up with these theories that there are certain called that her ritual. He killing, people that I don't know really who's taking that seriously? This is really no doubt. It is back that up. It's just not happening. It's just not happening. It was a thing back in the eighties. It wasn't even a thick ameer ali was the thing in terms of you had it was It was hitting the news yeah, it was hidden, it was the panic, and now it's just there's no news on that front. Now the house across the street being burglars.

There are reports that there was a van there and that the back was open and there was a safe on the lawn this. This is the most probable theory because they do say that the neighbour across the street was there. Their house was broken into that data Hmm, I'm sure that lacy went out there with her dog eight months pregnant and decided she was going to stop this crime right and go up and in confront these people. That's one of the theories. Is that lay see tried to get involved here somehow and pregnant yeah know it's the most plausible theory. As far as an alternative one is. There was something bad going down in that general vicinity, but I dont see how she would walk up

or even tried to mean she would try to get away from this. Also, this whole thing goes down on christmas eve, which again I just don't know why he's leaving for the day on christmas eve, leaving his pregnant wife for the day. On christmas eve, a friend of mine jack, said he wanted to go, see a concert the other day before his wife gave birth and I said I'd go with him and then he said you know what I can't leave her. I can't go to the concert with you yet wife that pregnant this whole scenario just seems a little odd to me. I think it was sir Scott sister, stated that she knew lazy and, on christmas eve he would have had honeydew list about a mile, long you'd think she wouldn't Let him go fishing or something like that. He would have stuff to do wooden. Any husband have stuck to do well. They have things plan next day they have a whole family gathering plan. The next day was the twenty four

there actually supposed to be meeting laces family for dinner. Oh so that night, for you know how it is that hold yeah when you're married nurse tooth families and extend a relatives and all that literally from at least the twenty fourth go, and twenty four twenty five year, you're busy. Yes, Well, I guess what I'm trying to say is the defence can bring up these issues. We saw van people solve, men following lacy, but it's interesting. They didn't call that in this was stuff that came up later. Yeah, not the day. now we're not worried about a van. Being seen in driving away any this is I think, and a lot of cases that there's a van seen, the police will actually eight that the van that allow the witnesses saw was siemens siemens they we ve already explained a van that peoples our way,

What is in dispute? Let's say that there was a roving satanic halt or men robbing the house across the street and either one of these groups took lacy. And then took her body. Ninety minute drive to berkeley, marina and dumped it right where he happened to be fishing that day to frame him. This is unbelievable me, because this is a spur of the moment thing, that's what they make. It sound like oh opportunity here and there oh, it's going to be so easy to somehow I dont know how to explain this, because the defence tries to argue that the child may have been born. Yet it wasn't okay so, clear this out there saying that somehow these bodies were submerged that the child was born, and then somehow they hold onto these bodies where they'll

submerged and then dump them on shore line on the shore line, which they argue it too far inland, which is, I think they said, fifteen feet yeah, and they said that the tide would not have brought the bodies that far in. But they say that that was proof that they were planted there to frame scott. So one the child's body was in much better condition than laces, thus showing that it was in sight of her and protected from the elements, and it appears to have just come out on its own. not born, not given birth. So yet no that's that theories gone because of science and why with day I mean. Why would someone plant the buys a mile apart, this

very in and why would they plant the child and then come back in plant laces body a day later, so it appears that these bodies washed ashore. Naturally, now, as far as the whole argument over, they were way too far inland. When you look at the pictures Look therefore inland to me and we went through the all ocean whatever. What's the cycled? No, it's the national oceanographic yeah. and now a here, here's the thing is in theory: there is no difference between theory and practice. In practice there is- and you can see

that the tide wasn't high enough all day long that the time frames they give. We don't know when they actually washed ashore. We don't know where they were planted with their so many variables and factors here to just say: oh the water wasn't high enough for these two washed ashore. They looked pretty close to the shore line in the photos. To me they looked feet. They didn't look fifteen feet, they look like. They were just a few feet from where the waterline was that day. When they took the pitcher, then they look few feet away when they took a pitcher of high tide and low tide. Maybe it was just a little higher tied that day. Maybe there was when that day, there is so many elements there there's somebody factors. Yet they also tried to say that since lacy had some broken ribs that that's where, if some one had caught her open that they could have damaged her ribs but damage to a body. That's out in the water.

Can happen. Well, there was a rocky shoreline. She her body could have been damaged, washing right or right. Ok, so is it the police that are planting the bodies or is it a satanic coal whose planting these bodies are never claimed that it's the police? Ok, this isn't manitoba county here says northern california in the police are doing a fantastic job, and they're doing everything they can to file murder charges against a man who, obviously, is the prime suspect with a body so they're trying to show that there are other suspects here there, other scenarios by which she could have been killed by the prosecutor? is there to remind everyone that you can? all these things, but you're still looking? a guy who drove ninety miles the day she were missing The day she went missing and then, when the biased,

I finally discovered therein that same area yeah and it's that simple, that it really is they they find him guilty and they sentence him to death, which is pretty harsh. What do you think prompted that? Because I feel I feel it's the pregnancy equation is it is, I guess you could say the pregnant he factor yeah. Consider like a double murder there. No, it is, I mean he's charged with the death of both lucy and car cod. Was the name that I believe lacy had given to the sun or what would have been their son yeah. I only slightly surprised that they found him guilty and gave him the death penalty, I would say that I was not surprised that is found guilty, but I am so eyes by the death penalty, the only in the fact that when you have a case like this were

they don't have a smoking gun. They have a decent circumstance. ok showing that he had the opportunity he had the means He may have had a motive which will get to Shortly by it. I think they did a good job. The prosecution showed. This is the best way to explain it. About it, he supposedly leaving to fish? And he's curling, her hair and then going to mob and then going to walk the dog. Some things: you may not know she, at least around that time, had cancelled plans because she said her feet were bothering her. She wasn't feeling good, which that happens when you're pregnant so which he really have gone out. Walking the dog it's possible. And some people went along where she supposedly was going to go, and they said I dont see doing this because it's too steep yeah, it just seems highly likely that she would have walked out, and within I mean if you really look at the timeline

within about what ten or fifteen minutes she's abducted, that's the window of time. It just feel Like such a short amount of time, whatever was for her suddenly go missing. I think that's why it's easy understanding I'm guilty, I'm just saying, since it's so circumstantial, which again for anyone that doesn't know circumstantial evidence that you can use with other circumstantial buzz. You can use it to kind of show your theory, but it's not the same as when there's a rate committed physical. you have dna in in the person and you can test that. That is not circumstantial same thing. Is you had multiple witnesses, witness a guy shoot. Some reporters, you know, that's not circumstantial all, but when you have oh, he made these concrete anchors and those are missing and he took his boat out When he's not known to be a fishermen, you can t all this stuff

and going out on a day when he probably should have been poem, helping her get things ready so its highly suspicious. It supports their theory when we in two, but someone motive, I mean we don't have to have a motive here, but what do you think the motive is He didn't want to have a life with lazy and he didn't want to have a child. He obviously wasn't happy with lazy, wouldn't be having affairs if he was and what what's his opinion on a child there witness statements, people who were happy for lazy and scott who had talked is gonna say why what was it like when you found out she was pregnant. Where were you hoping for, He would say I was hoping for infertility and then someone else at one point asked him oh yeah, what do you think you're gonna be able to go on through the ball, you're signed the backyard niggers. I've already got friends do that with me, this room

finds me so much of the casey anthony case from those kind of statements. Could she made very similar statements about not wanting a child, the child was slowing down her life yeah and not only is it that, but both of them, the deceased body, is found and within their general vicinity, both of them have kind of shaky alibis. But here's where the differences kind of stop, whereas scott his statements and location check out where casey anthony it. Doesn't he actually reports the missing wife immediately whereas well. Well, ITALY, as in case he anthony who let somebody now she doesn't get crazy, anthony its weeks before that comes out his statements pretty much check hours, casey it makes up people that don't even exist in some

weird scenario? They have about the same amount of physical evidence which is very small amount of physical evidence, but they have more circumstantial, yet casey walks and Scott sentenced to death. I personally think they had more against casey than they did scot. I think they actually had more, against sky, simply because of where he went and what he was doing so had this timeframe where they figured. He was doing all this. They know what day it happened. Basically, they know when he would have taken her where he would have bacon has because hottie showing up their verify that, because he said I went to the marina in the body shows up there. Therefore, it actually is worse for him. His first statement, I he tells three or four people, he went golfing yeah it's after that he starts time people he went to the marina by the time the cop shows up he hands that

person, his landing ticket, his mother he's on the phone with his mother. At some point I think she's just really upset, but she says something like no one damn enough to put the bodies where their alibi is not even use skype. Not even you, Scott. There is also a time, and is this could cut either way? But she calls him at one point in says, YAP their diving again, but they didn't find em. They didn't find lazy. And he could hear him whistle to close, I know about you, but if someone just described it to me, It may be series like ok, they're, not dead, yet enough. found, so they're still hope when you We hear that whistle to me it's really bad. It's like! Well, I dodged a bullet there. It sounds horrible, it's a horrible whistle,

it's almost as bad as robert durst reaction when he is shown the the letters and he starts burping and freaking out and runs into the bathroom with his mic. Still on it to me. That's what it reminded me of it was the same sort of reaction. In essence, we talk about the trial. There are various reasons why he was probably convicted, as we ve already said. There's no physical evidence tying him to the crime, there's just circumstantial evidence now, In all my reading I saw the same things popping up for why he probably was found guilty. I guess the largest factor in this and the reason why probably amber fry with such a big deal wise because this man, we just he would lie so often and It is so many people about so many over things that he had no credibility he's a liar.

I mean you can say. Oh his story checks out because he says he's here and there is a ticket. He says he's there there's a receipt. He says Martha Stewart on, but I don't care, where the body shows up where he says he was right, where the odd that now they say, oh well. By that time, everyone knew he had been there, but that's a lot of work for a transient or a satanic, halt, member or a thief to manage these bodies and then to plant them later on. That's a lot of work and why he worth it again, yeah, so they get. We ve. Why? Ok, so we we ve kind of establish that, but I also read something interesting, which was this idea that mark gara goes is to blame. His defense was weak or just didn't. He didn't do enough form, no

that he told everybody that he was going to show. That's got didn't, do it. Oh he here he owed promised and under delivered, yes I would say there were a lot of little things he did right, but by starting off on that foot he moved the burden of proof, and this isn't my idea. He moved the burden of proof off of the prosecution seemed I'd defense. So here you have the defense team. Normally they have a little bit of an advantage, because the burden of proof is on the prosecution. The defense can just sort of sit back and call everything into question and safe. Ah well, we can explain it this way or we can. by in this that way, and we have a witness, the counters, your guy- and we have this expert coming any disagreement with your expert and then the jury sit back and go while there's a lot of doubt here yeah, but when you say along going to show in you don't because he didn't know

there. There was an interaction between the prosecution in the defence. Wasn't there? Yes, look get that moment. So, of course, the jury's look Alison saint, were we don't see where you are showing us, sir and man. Scott does look guilty, though there waitin for the might drop they're waiting for the bombs they're waiting for the proof. There is a moment where the prosecutor sense of his guys over who knows where the defence team members and says go there if they ve got evidence that shows that scott induce we should know, what it does that changes everything he goes over there and he says: hey man how's, it goin any handshake, and he says you guys have something that shows scots innocent blood steel. With that lets, you tell us what it is and will go from there, and he looks at me and he says, go fuck yourself and then he says

don't shoot the messenger and he said will go. Tell whoever sent you over here and how did you take that amber reading this and I'm thinking wow talk about a backfire on the defence, people would say: well there, the enemy, and even if their extending a an olive branch, sure, whatever there the enemy is the other side. You think he's guilty. So go F yourself, but to me it's they extended an offer. They were like. What do you have that we don't know about and they get nothing dislike when Scott told amber all will be revealed and everything will be explain once they ve? my wife and we got nothing in that's what happens over and over again in this case, as they promised things They do not deliver on yeah when you read, if you just go to one of these sites that are pro other theories. If you read all that,

That's all you read, it can be very convincing. They have a narrative, but once you start actually looking at the evidence it all, urges falls apart, either from logic or through science. There now it is totally excludes common sense, which is dude, said our fishing here and that's where his wife's dead body ends up the nation, it's planted there, but again common sense. Isn't satanic cult merged and underwater and employment assist ah brain hurts. Yet because that's what happens right yeah? What really bothered me about the go after yours? part. Was they end up losing this case bad horribly there their guys sentenced to death. When he's smugly smiling in he's saying, go fuck yourself, he thinks he's got something over em. He does

and because they never offer it. There was, like you said, there's no mic drop moment where they go, bam, drop the mic and then it's over. No that never happened because they don't have that. In any case, this, where it's all he said she said, and this circumstance- and this coincidence it comes out of what use. Which is essentially all razor, what makes them out Hence here No one knows what was going on in their house. They were the only two people in it. and it would be very easy for him to kill her in the house. Take her immediately out too, vehicle start thrown umbrellas, honour had out drop the dog off and they say that huh had to have done all this in broad daylight, whether it be in the DR way or at the warehouse, I'm thinking is it's christmas eve? There's not that many p, loud on christmas eve.

not a normal day, no or otherwise occupied. That's the perfect day to commit this, to commit murder to transfer a body in broad daylight cunning. visiting family or cleaning and getting ready for family there, Hang out outside washing their vehicles were against the quest, as if he had had a bare lawyer, someone who didn't over promise under deliver. Could the outcome be different? I think so. What do you think outcome? Could been at best? Well, there was some question about jury members. They could have maybe had some of the jurors. Thrown out of the jury box. They could of a jet. aid to more of the prosecutions freeze or what they claim is misinformation. They could have done a few more things like that

at the end of the day I think common sense prevails it they they might been able to get him off me casey Anthony walked. And that's where I say they could have proven doubt. I think it's difficult for a man to get off in this circumstance. I firmly believe that he would have been found guilty of matter. What they did. I do think that in most other scenarios. They would have avoided the death penalty, yeah and ashes. I've known for this. I'm just saying I think that, because they over promised under delivered and yeah and what scots behaviour was like. Yeah, I think they just they had no sympathy for him. They didn't have any inkling that there was a good bone in his body and they just thought he scum aided this horrible thing. I don't think there's any way to make the case less prejudicial. There is, and I know that

There has been arguments about well, they shouldn't have been able to say this. They shouldn't have been able to show that an object to it. No, but that's where the judge comes in. If you look at what the judge did the job, I allowed a lot of things that were called into question by the defence to say: overruled or whatever at that happens in every kind, o, it half saying is dear to me a law. This was brought on by scott himself yeah, so I think, better, how good the lawyer was he's anchored by this terrible terrible suspect. That's wise, convicted the

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