« The Generation Why Podcast

The Death of Tina Watson //Replay

2022-04-10

When a newly married couple travel to Australia for their honeymoon, they expect to have the time of their lives. While scuba diving, though, something terrible would happen. The husband would surface without his wife. His version of events would characterize her death as an accident. She had dislodged his mask and after taking care of that he discovered that she was sinking down below him and he just couldn't save her so he went up to get help. Others, such as her father and a close friend, would challenge his story and the husband would be arrested amid suspicions of foul play. Did Gabe Watson murder his wife? Or was Tina's drowning death merely an accident?

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This is an unofficial transcript meant for reference. Accuracy is not guaranteed.
Join wondering class in the wondering app to listen ad free from wondering, What are you doing great destined? Thank you for asking awesome. We have some ah thank yous and stuff to do. We have a couple of people to thank I know I might miss somebody and we don't always
do this, but on this episode I wanted to thank alley and anna for suggesting the topic of this episode in what is this episode, the death of tina, what and who was a woman on her honeymoon. Her husband was gabe watson. They were to take this trip, Although the trip originally was going to be a graduation present, but it of all into the honeymoon after teenagers- I did that she would love to go to australia and she loved to see the turtles and gave wanted to school. But I've just gave is a sort of added scuba diver. Well, it's definitely one of his aunt I will give you a quick summary this couple vacations in australia and one of the weeks is essentially tina's and the other week essentially games, in other words, taken, can choose what they want to do. Forgave he wanted to dive,
and by this, wanted to visits coral reefs. He wanted to visit a shipwreck, and so he contacted company about taking them out for a dime and while on this dive, his wife would drown and he would return to the surface there was a real question about? Was it foul play or a terrible accident? Was it an accident it? So it say who done it or if done yeah, with no fees or minimums banking with capital. One is the easy, decision in history of decisions even easier than citing to listen to another episode of your favorite podcast with no overdraft fees. Is it even a decision that banking re imagined? What's in your wallet term supply See capital one dot, com, slash bank capital, one in member of the icy price line. It goes saying that we're all missing travel right now, but you know,
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I say this: is she just perfect for me? We don't know about the particulars of this bet. There was some talk that there was a break up some time before they got married but still spent two years they're married. Yet the relationship could have been a little rocky now he wants. to marry tina and he wants to ask her father for permission. How does that go well. He calls thirteen his father. His name is Tom or thomas, I should say, tells him I want to marry your daughter. Will you give me your hand in marriage? he says, I will not do that over the phone. You have to meet me in person. So oh, they arrange a meeting, and at the meeting gave ass again and they have a conversation, but according to her father, he now gives the okay. He just discusses it with him. It's quite clear that from the very beginning that you know
Parents just our end game. They don't seem to have been into some of the previous boyfriends that she's had either in this is com where it's a rarity, I think, when both in law reserve sides of the family love the other person, there's always I dont the person, your marrying, you could do better. That's always ate ongoing theme in any family that is getting married. her parents, don't really seem to support the wedding much either, but gabe's parents, lover and they're very support In fact, for this vacation, gapes, father and grandmother, they pay for most of the trip in the trip costs. Ten thousand dollars yeah this not cheap therein with her, they like her, and so they plan
trip. Now you can't just go to a destination and start scuba diving. So how to prepare for this well gape has a bit of a background in scuba diving. The year of the trip when they actually get married and go on the vacation is in two thousand three. He first starts dive. In nineteen ninety six and he goes to a place blue water adventure the instead, there is Tom Jackson between nineteen any six in eighteen. Ninety nine. He takes a number of course. Any get some certifications he gets certified in open water. He gets certified just open water, nigh trucks and rescue An overview of these is open water issues, basic diving skills. What you need to know to go diving advance. open water. It makes you or well rounded, gives you some additional skills and then you're more qualified to go to general dive sites may be more challenging dive sites. Nigh trucks
is ass. Do it they kind of tanker using its enriched air night, so you'll learn the benefits and hazards and proper procedures of using this, as is different equipment, its especial mixture so that you can dive deeper longer basically, and Now's you they say to dive to depths of a hundred and thirty f s w, which is feat of sea water. Now the rescue ocean is supposed to help you with self rescue. So if you get in trouble what yours What to do. If you have an accent what your spouse do, how to treat yourself but it also helps you do the same things for your fellow divers. But these ties It does sound a little bit more important than what they actually are to me. I hope that's true and at will. The reason is is because they are choir a day or two, sometimes or not, even sometimes I'm in two days and then some of them the amount
if diving required to complete that certification isn't very much, I would hear these titles think this disguise an expert diver that could go anywhere in do anything just hearing these titles, iraq Q certification, your eye pitcher, somebody jumping out of a helicopter in rescuing people in the ocean? You that's the image. but not so much now, to give you an idea, he got These certifications well before he ever went out to australia and he wasn't using them. In fact, he only had one time we're here to hell. Rescue another diver and it was another diver who was not panicking and who suggested in his own rescue, so he was. well to assist someone who is already competent and able to help someone, then of dives that he had gone on. If you go by his dive, computer and log book, he has fifty six recorded. Dives but there are a good number of those that happen in very shout there very shallow dives, so they're not,
and serious dives like in a swimming pool. Essentially many of the dives happen in swimming pools or quarries, very controlled environments and very few, and these happen well. well before he ever goes to australia or actually in seawater. So he doesn't really have a lot of experience. He loves, diving and he's gone diving he's not doing enough dies for anyone to say. Oh he's an experienced diver, the number of dives he does someone has remarked that they do that in a three month period it took him years to do almost a decade, so that's gave and tina this is well established. She is not a swimmer and her come level and water is, you know, I would say, is very questionable. It seems like at least one of her friends of renamed amanda said that China was right to train as a diver so that she could spend more time with gay because he wanted to dive more
and so if he was going to be diving, if you want to spend time with them well, she probably would need to go with him ass. He was going to be setting aside time to dive. and so she started taking courses at blue water venture with Tom Jackson. Just as gape did can she gets her diver meant before she even starts taking these classes. She spends almost two thousand dollars and buys dive equipment, and I believe it doesn't include a tank. It's it's like everything you need, as, like a regulator me now, you're dives, etc. This is something she's going to be doing without actually having tried it. I wouldn't spend that kind of money without getting my feet wet first, but she is expecting to do how did her? How did her training go when she went to blue water ventures? This is the bad part, so goes, and her first dive and pool does not go well.
Said she seem very uncomfortable and by the time she went to the quarry to do additional training, she was really freaked out He wouldn't follow directions very well when they were actually trying to teach her some skills they would teach like. When gave did this, he was based. Doing it by himself or with a really close friend because he's comfortable while it was private training with her, they had other people there and when it got to be her turn, they were testing taking her through how to do something- and she flipped out, so she started sending out of the way I really quickly and thee dive master had to grab the whole of europe the dive masters, somebody who watches over the group here Nine everybody see if there's a guy who's a little unstable upset, so he can be there to assist them and he that she was the one out of the group that was not doing well so when she started sending rather quickly, he had to grab a whole and slower assent and also keep his hand. near her regular keep in her mouth, because the problem is when people
son underwater they're, not under control. More. They serve stripping all their equipment off things can go long very quickly, so he doesn't want that equipment to come off of her he's trying to keep her safe and there's a problem. If you're in a certain depth of the water, you start coming up to quickly. It causes a problem, the bends. You cannot just serve You have to go to a certain death level and wait for a certain amount of time, so you have to go up easy and slowly do everything underwater. Slowly and deliberately, you cannot do anything haphazardly, so he can't let her just go surface up because she'll have the bends not depressurize correctly right, and they know this is what happened because the dive master gave a statement to police and said This is how it went. He said he had. He had never seen someone so uncomfortable in the water, but, as we said-
she really wants to learn how to dive, because this is gapes passion, she loves gabe. She wants to do with them so I think she's thinking I'll power through this. So by the time she gets to australia, she's had about ten dives under her belt and none in seawater, all in pretty much large swimming pools or controlled environment. and this is something gave may not have known about near the end of his training, he actually did get in seawater. Anything. Maybe they're there could have been an assumption on his part or who knows on other people's party that she had been in seawater before there as a diver, but she never did it and door or maybe he just didn't, have enough understanding that there is different environments. So if you're, you know just jumping into say a bay or something that's very calm you're all right, but few somewhere else were not so calm and controlled than europe.
Totally different environment and what she's experience. So he might not have considered that. Well, he did make sure she got the training and she went to the same place he did so maybe the thought was well. She's got the basics down. So when I go, I can help her. Yeah the honeymoon it's in sydney, Australia, this couple therefrom, alabama, so they're going to try. I moved from alabama to sydney, australia and it'll be a two week trip, or so now the company that they that gabe gets a hold of is mike ball. Dive expeditions And they have these boats and they take people out on, he's diving trips and the they'll be going out on, is the spoil sport there's a man his aims aid, singleton, he's the dive director of the boat and he's basically in charge, and they have other people board to help the thereon spoil sport, the spoil sports going to dock near
a rack. It's an historic rack, sunken ship, it's the says he Angola and it was built in nineteen o three and its. Duncan nineteen eleven due to a sigh clown, interesting, all one hundred and twenty two people aboard died in that cyclone. I guess it's a great rector go and visit because it's pretty much intact so you can actually swim down there and go to the ship their season down there? There bull re, all kinds of wild life right. And then there are, of course there's there's coral reefs and thing so beautiful. I asked how this set up as they have an anchor line. Daddy died, we will follow down and then, once to the bottom. They let go of the line and then they go exploring negative out the rack check out whatever they want, then what
they are done. They can go back up the anchor line now. Another boat shows up in drops to or drops another anko and others to anchor lines. To my knowledge during this outing. So they go down the one anchor line and then they can go up either one when they return soon as they let go. This anchor line they start moving because of the currents under the water Some people may not be aware of this, but the waters not still and the current can be a could be a different speed depending on the conditions, so it could be a minor or could be a strong current. So if it's, what would that be like a one? Kilometer current mean how do they rate these things? Yeah eyed, I forgot the havoc. amateur kilometer one and a half kilometers two kilometers sort of like wind, speed and away, but totally different
so this tourists group, they they understand ass and if the current gets too strong, they will actually now allow anyone to dive at that time and then there's this other area. They'll take him to day. They are back up plans. You now so they'll say Sorry, we can't go to the to the rack at the moment, because the current too strong to date has right in, And think about ski slopes, you got your black diamond slope, that's the most treacherous, and then you have your you know medium slopes, and then you have your easy bunny slopes that I'm on, I would never go on the high and expert slow, because I would kill myself so this wreckage that thereat, it's not a bunny slope. It's probably consider an expert dive at this point but you know most of the people that are going out there. They are experienced divers. So it's ok well No this well, this company, they interview the people that are going and I'll talk to him and
how many dives you have well gave saying have got fifty six die but he's not saying that its fifty six at a recent they have their own policy about these things and they have color coded so that, depending on What school level a diver you are that will determine which diver access points you can go to because some of the diver access points are considered more advanced and some are more novice safer. So they have three codes, their green in yellow and red and green As for, if you have fourteen or less dives mal your green, Are you can't go to the red access, the red, the access point, because he has not advanced enough? now, yellow is between fifteen and forty nine dives and the red is for divers who have more than fifty die? There are fifty plus dives on their rights, and they're more comfortable. They know what they're doing
so. They saw a peep around like in a system, but they know what they're doing. There's something curious about this, because when gabe antenna are interviewed their interview together, which I guess is not policy policies, supposed to interview. People separately see get their version instead of having people look at each other and check, in other words, tina gave her sitting together and I say: games like I'm, I'm good, I'm fifty six dives! Oh, will you qualify your red, then good, now and ask him what kind of dives those were hanno, because it though by just seawater dives. He doesn't hit fifty any riders forty eight does he had thirty now, so we would he be at this aid qualify for yellow, probably based on his actual dive record, that's between his law book and his computer, his I've computer so imagine tina sitting there. This is their honeymoon. This is something he wants, do imagine they're sitting there and she answers. I have ten dives. Now they,
I have eleven die, then they can't go together. Now gather can't go together, you can't go to the young girl she can't go to where he's going. What does that do for the honeymoon she wants to go with him? She won't go, buy yourself she's. She knows that she is not going to do that so Are these people marked, is being green, yellow red? Now what happens is their fine? They dont even follow their own policy at this point, so they just sent to inexperienced divers down that black dots in slope, that's just the thing. Is you have this option? Like you said the guy has fifty six dives. He took training courses, he has certification and four different. Diving courses. Shouldn t qualify me where's the problem there look, even if you accept that, even if you think this guy's a great diver, some now. What about tina? How much time is she spent in seawater? Seawater is completely different than fresh water,
she has never been in seawater as part of a dive before and she's going to, like you said black diamond slope there you can already see where this is headed bad. This is not safe for her. Now they ve got their access point chosen they're getting in the water he gets I'd say between meter into down. She doesn't even hit four feet before her. Turning around he's going to come back up now, he says: he's dive computers, beeping at him, messing up. That's a problem, so course he's communicating with people she's up to. Appear a little luck, pending on who you ass either look alarmed or they just exerted themselves all back, because it takes some effort, you know to get in the water, and yet they don't do this all the time remember it has to do with the computer,
sensing, the air in his tank, and if it's not reading it correctly, it's going to beep there's an issue kind of important if he has a reason to come up. This is dive one they come up and he messes with the battery or batteries. Okay, so there's some does You can see here like he says something about the barry being in backward, but he has a transmitter that the tank, and he has a wrist watch dive computer. They both have a battery in them. He may actually mess with the batteries in both compartments, because how much does he know about the dive computer system, so he may have thought I need to check the batteries in both now, according to maybe the orientation the batteries can tricky, because it's not as clear it's not like when you open up the back of a remote, controlled car know that it's really clearly labelled and there they got a little diagram diagram there there not like that with these and it's like a flat flat. I think so you could easily flip it over. So there are or the boat for about ten to fifteen minutes before they go back down for the second attempt. This is the second attempt now by
this time, this other boat that you mentioned earlier has docked and more people are getting out. So how many people are really in the area up to sixty divers. This is a tourist spot. This is where people go to dive. and explore, so it's not as though it's just a handful of people here they start going down, and they're following, as you said, they have like sort of a cable by in here where the scenario happens. We two scenarios that could be happening. Ok, because we know she's going to die. How does this happen? According to gabe? They are at their diver access point they're going down and they're going over the top of the rack and they wear these they're kind of like vast they're called b cds, their buoyancy compensation devices, and this uses the air from your tank to fill up these bags on your chest, and it fills
with air. Therefore, it makes you rise or your weighted down. If you let the air out of em, you sink right. You can achieve neutral buoyancy, because when you go diving, you actually put on some wait. Stop where you down seating, go down there, smoother and then you have your obesity that can help they can neutralize the weight. When I go swimming in a swimming pool lake, I am not. lee buoyant. I cannot dived down very deep, like I have to force myself, so I would have to have weights in order to sink to the bottom in this vast is what brings them back up and if you think about it, you ve gone to wear them where they come. The salt, sawyer isolation chamber with salt float where you have a hundred pounds of absence solved that you're just floating on in salt water. You are more naturally buoyant so you're going down, but what he notices is that she's not just going down along this this case
she's actually dropping to so he has to grab a hold of her. He starts inflating his beseech tee to compensate because he's now holding on to his wife he reaches to grab her like. I think, maybe on her shoulder something too and then she threw her arms out and she hits his mask dislodging his mask so and you dislodge your mass that seal is broken. Water comes in and it met, up your man. You can't see at this point it doesn't matter. If you can't know, the mask off, really because it is strapped to your head, but you can absolutely break the seal which allows water see watered again in You ve never been in seawater. Let me tell you: it feels good, on your eyes. Stings like hell, so he's got a clear his mask using the base of the air from his regulator right, so he reset
it up, and at this point he noticed that he had to let go of her to do this and he notices that his regulators gone like the mouthpiece part of it is still there, but the mouthpiece part that fits into your mouth. It's gone now on your b c d, which is attached to your tank. They actually have a backup regulator. They caught an octopus, so he puts that on and puts in his mouth and he's fine, but now he see she's now down about five to ten feet below him. That's sharing accounts she sinking because she hasn't hit her be city and she's waited with twenty pounds of some people say she was overweighted but she's not. allowing herself to become buoyant neutral zone. It she's prob we overweighted from what I understand. I think she was probably spoke about twelve pounds mid year. Twenty his podcast sponsored by better help. People don't always realise that physical symptoms, like headache, teeth, grinding and even digestive issues, can be indicated,
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Wait. A second he'd been filling up, has b c d to compensate for her weight. So he's We try and died down with a full bag. Air on his chest isn't gonna work. He had inflated it to hold her up patiently and now he does not hold of her. He could let out the air to go after her. If you, out of it. If he thought of it now he's thinking, I have to go back up, so he turns around eighty starts heading up his dive computer. Ordered a maximum sent rate alarm, as well as a maximum breathing rate alarm during his assent. So some people have said he didn't swim ass, fast ass. They took his time now the reason they say that is because the person who would bring tina up from the bottom is weighed singleton and his sat rate was faster, a time and a half faster. But this is the dive master of the well he's the dive director
The dive director who's the most senior veteran guy in the water right. So he knows he he knows his limits of how fast he can assent, but they say that they gave to move fast. Now. We already said that his vest was over inflated, possibly and he may have been a little overweighted as well. So if you put those two things together, his ascent rate might not have been as good, because he's? Basically in a race against? You know that if you compare the two times he's in a race against a man who's, an expert who knows what he's doing he wasn't out there? over inflating is busy because he wasn't with a novice. He was out there just doing his thanks. Now now here's a moment, though, that we have to look at is why didn't he just grow? another diver and say I need your assistance. I need your help pointed his wife. Why did
He gets somebody that was closer besides the boat. That was, you know forty something feet above his head. However, many meters that is, that I should say meters cause our story advancement to hear that yeah, the role that he he had gotten down to a depth of fifty six meters. Ok, so that's actually way more than forty feet. It's a good distance dounia and he says he does you know, after these large golf his actually trying to get a hold of somebody. He says he sees in person but doesn't any response from them. We can't even gases the wine because it might just be another tours, that's diving and he doesn't know what to do he. He can't really do anything, and so gabe makes this decision. If you follow his story that he just decides to go up,
to the boat to get help. Yeah, there's a man who is the assistant to wade singleton. That man is the one that gave sees when he gets up to the boat and gabe tells them that his wife's down there. This man will grab gabe and we'll tell him you are not going back down there now. The reason this happens they say is because, if you have, a situation where summers in endanger possibly dying you can't send someone else who could possibly be in danger and die as well down there after them, because he's gonna see his own wife and he's got a pet being a panic situations that make sense so, allow him to go down now, while this is happening, wade singleton is already in the water and as he swimming. He notices jean at the bottom. At this point as know who it is but he sees a diver at the bottom arms out. There does on the bottom, goes down there and starts trying to see what he can do see it.
he's, responsive to anything and would take her up, and course, once you, Sancy ascends. At a faster rate than gave did, according to his dive, computer now should run through a quick, witted dive computer does it provides real I'm dive information so time depth time its oxygen used. It is a really handy thing, because you know back in the old days, people were just log everything seeing you know what they would say: our law gauges and things like that they were bright things down here you get real time information, so azure doing everything you can see it as it happens, so is important fitbit for when you're underwater right, but the dive computers that gabe and tina were using weren't top of the line at that time.
and for two thousand and three because we're a little older yeah there was more sophisticated, but it you know it doesn't have like the memory that the modern ones have. So it didn't take like a real time. Recording of everything, so it was more like snapshots and it would only record a dive if you went past four feet so of you. is hung around of the water, was never going to record anything. That's not really the holes. or because they have a dead woman on their hands and gave the when he was the only one with her, so What's that old, saying if so, one dies who's. The first person look at their spouse their spouse, but this is a new couple. This is they were together two years than they got married. They went on this trip within days being married. What's the story, Some people say is how this really went down They say that he'd planned the murder of his wife and
before they even one on this trip, he was already planning it. He was asking her to increase her life insurance and make him the beneficiary. He also bought her a rather expensive engagement ring and plan to murder her so once they got down he raised her and a bare hug turned off her air supply on the tank, waited for her to pray, much die from lack of oxygen. Turn the air back on and then left her body to sink in surface and said my wife had an accident. I need help, that's in a nutshell, so he's gonna now collect on the life insurance, PA see and get his engagement ring back and not have to be with her and the life insurance policy. I've heard a lot of different amounts for that. I've heard anywhere.
from one hundred and thirty thousand dollars to two hundred and sixty thousand dollars. I heard that it was between thirty three. thousand dollars, and a hundred and twenty thousand yeah so lots of different numbers out there I even heard different prosecutors. One referred to it as a whole. sixty and another one referred to it as two hundred forty. So let's just say that I think it over a hundred thousand. So it's not like a million snarl But it's enough unite, hey. You know: crack dealers kill each other for five bucks every day, so maybe this guy's gonna kills wife. hundred thousand two thousand dollars gives him a motive and he's gonna get. This engagement ring back that he spent money on Now why do people think he murdered her? She would get into that of his actions after them. the combination of things when you look at the dive compute
information and the fact that he didn't go up is quickly there there are divers who said they saw like they did I've diver one and I were to which would be those two people tat, one of them they look like. He was holding her at bear hug you combine that with people saying that he was playing cards on the boat trip back to shore, and he didn't ride in the same boat as his wife's body. He went another, he chose to go to another boat, to write back cause in one of the around or yet he didn't, even when they were trying to resuscitate her see? If they could bring her back, he didn't go to her and then, after she was very back at home, her family would leave these flowers and they would disappear off her gravestone yeah right off of her gravestone and then they started wiring them in where they would be really difficult to take out
and then some was still getting them out, and so I think it was. The police set up a camera and discovered it was gave especially as you know they were wired in at this point. He was bringing bolt cutters with him. He would walk out there with bolt cutters, cut the flowers out and throw them in the trash and walk away. He also had a christmas card of and tina in the caption was who's that good looking guy or it was. That sexy guy standing next to tina yo. That's me yeah kind of narcissistic He also had a pitcher of tina next to a sign that what was happening was this. He had a christmas party and so people would come over. He would point out her picture and I he'd, say something like it, but it has great picture of tina and then stir was a sign that said caution, drowning yeah kind of poor humor,
Would you think that lets say it was your sister that she drowned, and this is the guy that was with her at the time, and he sang this, which your first thought, what an ass an that's, not funny and can't you be sensitive to the loss of my loved one? The irony What say you can't defend it? There's nothing can say that defends what he saying there and furthermore, whereas this coming from I've heard people try to defend it, they'll say it's and that he doesn't have very many defenders, but now they'll say that. Everyone handles grief differently. They handle loss differently. I think his actions are, I take them for what they are. I think it's it's pretty importation. I think it's despicable and I think he is a narcissist and I think he has a view three weird dry personality, so humor comes off real poorly from this man and wife Would you make humor of your dead wife, but
we get emails every day about. My giggling Laughter on this podcast. Does that mean that I could be a murderer, because I laugh it inappropriate times. It doesn't correlate to guilt form. He says that he got rid of the plastic bouquet of flowers because tina didn't like plastic flower. She like real flowers. This is it One nation, I don't even believe his explanation, I dont, believe it either I think he hated tina's parents because they hated him? was his way of saying screw you you don't get to put flowers on hunting. Grave. I'm not gonna. Let you too little rivalry going here right right, it's a clear that her parents did not lie. Can't like his parents are pretty welcoming of the other side bed. Venus. I was never welcoming of gave in his side, so we can already see where there's a problem and
He tried on two occasions to get her father to okay, the marriage and he never would give the ok. Now you can see that's his right and sure it is, but it shows there is a problem there. There is tension between them there are there. There was one more allegation that he made an inappropriate comment at her funeral about her breasts, it's kind of hearsay, but at the same time I can't say that I did that I disbelieve it. He might have said it doesn't seem like a guy that really understands what's coming out of his mouth or his actions. He just doesn't get that other people looking at him like you, you are sick, theirs lot of hearsay. In this case there are a lot, things are said that are not true. There are things said by people who are not qualified to speak on certain things. so we are going through these matters and situations just take like the card playing. We had one person say that he saw gay playing cards with other people, then we
another person saying yes gay play cards and then, when a expounded upon they said or wall Africa who was it was their dad or who it was. The original person who had said it so they were just going off of what they have been told by someone else. They didn't actually see it. We get down to it. No one really sampling carts that something is very, very an inflammatory, very inflammatory, Another issue is that he wasn't going to the boat where tina was being taken care of they're trying to revive her resuscitate her. He and go to those about. Well, that can be explained because didn't know she was about it's not like when you out there. You know every, That's going on in every single boat, that's in the water. He didn't know that wade had brought her up to the other boat and wait didn't know what boat he was on, so he couldn't bring her up to the boat that gave was on or even if he did, he may have just brought her to the
rest boat. Now that he was at says he's trying to rescue her right. This is all we have to get them together. Why does not matter what matters is there was a woman in the water who was Eighty to ninety to one hundred feet down, think I think her dive computer showed she reached a depth of eight, almost ninety feet, yeah. So she was well down there. What are you going to do? Yes, bring her up. Try resuscitate her now at some point, gave is told that she's being worked on, but he said that He didn't want to go wherever she was at because he didn't know if he could handle watching that yeah. This is where, if you don't feel any before him and you already hate him and you think he doesn't. It any sympathy this. where you're going to slide towards that he's a murderer and put him away. Why wouldn't he go to his wife, that's and trouble? When I get you won't x, you won't able to accept that this is someone who has their limits and can't watch someone being worked on. One of the things
you've brought up as he said? Well, sometimes you laugh when you're nervous, while some people can't watch certain things happen. I I've met several people that say they can't watch like their husband. Who's got a bad cut, can't see it stitched up, they just can't do it yeah do they love their husband, ass. Did they want them to be fixed sure they want to survive yeah, but they can't watch that can't watch blood spilled the can't watch, being closed. Sutures! That's just not! There think we'd have a couple friends that said when they watched the earth of their son, her daughter, they had to leave the operating room because they could not see their wife. in all the blood and everything, especially that a caesarean they. They could not watch that because it was too much for them, so I totally get it, but at the same time I totally get. Why didn't he want to
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being exclusively and movie theatres July fifteenth buy tickets. Now. The other thing is to you notice. If you read up on this case, there are people that say I was there. I know he did it here things I saw the end same thing is: is these people gave certain statements to the police that are different than what they say now? You know what I totally that, like some guy, comes up and he says my wife's in trouble and she dies, and I just think didn't you try to help her? Why didn't you I've down there and help that woman. It's your wife! What on earth are you thinking? well. They're not have been doing that at the time and time they're giving a different statement are there saying what you're saying there yeah later they're going wait a minute. This allegation comes up. Suspicions rise, and now they remember it currently or you're, not getting their true
initial reaction and original story. This is some that comes up a lot, so just ass. She spoke this week about sixteen versions that he's given his story of what happened, game and games different statements as they claim and I was signed us anymore- he's changed a story sixteen times than just like. No, it's it's like two or three times and so we did some being or at least I did some were digging and I found a chart actually lists. The person who gave the statement what they heard gave say in relation to white and it's all charred at sea can actually go across and say: oh, this is about the dive computer This is about tina dropping. This is about the man real, easy to find a discrepancy, and here's the deal. You can see how there are sixteen versions, but thereof Dozens of
no real importance in terms of they all basically mean the same thing. He never one eighties on this isn't like oh, I was at the apartment and our oh, I wasn't at the apart. or I tried to help her and then I'd and then the next statement, as I didn't, try to help her phone all in the same were the same vein of the same story. There just slightly different players in if errand and I did the same path, cast sixteen times in a row. Sound a little bit different each time. Although we're trying to portray the same exact story so is he changing a story, or is he just retelling it here comes out slightly different or he's not changing it, but try this. If they play this game in the past, you can actually take a line of sixteen people and you you could walk each one whisper in their ear. As
although the telephone, it's a telephone game, you you tell each person something and then You'll notice, not everyone tells it exactly, as you did so he's telling the story to different people and their recording sea of possibly up to sixteen people recording his meant. They just might write it down a little bit differently or whatever you really can't get any clearer than that. There's a whole question of a trial troy wants to try him for murder. After this incident he goes back to the states. He goes back with china and his mother yeah her name's glenda. They go back to alabama, they won't be. Oh, he will bury his wife where he told you about the grave site you handle. It australia wants to charge him, but they don't do this for many many years. It takes a little while doesn't it for years, and then they opened an inquest, an investigation on him for this whole incident, but
Why did it take for years for them to do this? I mean to me: you strike when the iron hot, there's no question in er we gotta go round up suspects. We got investigate this is we know he was with her at the bottom of the ocean she's dead, so it's either him or an accident there's. No. So what? What do you think triggers this whole inquest? Well, it's really obvious. There's her parents and who hate gave rise it and you know what they hear them with good reason. Ok also and I understand why they don't like em- I totally get well. I say I can get, may be why they do. I just don't know if they really saw anything in the time that they knew him. That was, as that was like what we see later with the grave site with the christmas card, with the comments with the burial, their disapproval
earned a dislike and then, when their daughter dies under his watch, it turns to hate it's obvious. So he's the killer, and they don't let this lie. They start putting the pressure not only do they get australia fired up. His australia wants to la prosecute him and they do. In fact, what is gave do because games in Alabama australia wants him and prosecuted what happens they? They want to charge him with murder and he goes back and forth, for I think it's about a year give or take a few months and gabe ends up returning to australia on his own accord. He didn't really have to don't know what the extradition rules really are between america and in australia, but really he went back to face justice on his own and he and
pleading to a manslaughter charge, meaning that he didn't do enough to aid or assist with the situation. so he gets charged with manslaughter and sentenced to a teen money. That's what he ends up serving as eight ten month. He gets a sense of one year. Yeah they take everything. They will count. True, true, sir, Words this manslaughter charge. You know it's murder, whether basis saying as it's murder, because you didn't help enough. So it's a year, but that's not the story he ends up getting another six months, tacked on, and so and observing eighteen months after the eighteen months? He wants to go back to alabama. Well There is an attorney, general and alabama, whose thinking, ah, you didn't do enough time months is not enough. and they're saying you know what a stray had a crack at it, but we can have a crack at it because he plotted the murder in alabama a plan
trip, so they tack on a kidnapping charge to now. Why do why? Do they put a kid being charged on because they say that by tricking, her telling her. Oh we're going on this beautiful trip, but actually the trips going to be. You know it's going to end with your demise he's lying to earth he's kidnapping, her because she's not really going with, she thinks she's my she's going against her she wouldn't have gone there. She knew she was going to be killed, so they tack on a kidnapping charge. This is this goes to the grand jury gives an indictment. They it made there don't hold on hold on alabama, is wanting to charge him with a capital offence which carries the death penalty and they want that in Australia, says we're not gonna send him back, because we don't agree with that. We gave em eighteen months for manslaughter charge, which was more than what that charge.
legally carried and he on his own accord, went there now they're, not wanting to extradite him. So the alabama prosecutor prosecutor has to drop that as a punishment has to drop the death penalty, then Australia says wilson it back to you now. So he comes back in this is the weird thing is they claim it's not double jeopardy because it is a different government charging him and they say that they have jurisdiction. Because he had this plan in the states at the time of their engagement or their wedding and planned this in the states why taken charge him with the motor and not simply
spears c or something like that is because our government can choose to do whatever it wants whenever it wants in interpret the law how it sees fit for its own purpose and whether he's at fault he served his time. In Australia. That's what they deemed how on earth the american government, the alabama state can say they. charged with murder. Also, even if you think this guy's absolute guilty, you should be worried about behaviour of our government that taken charge you with. whatever they want, and they can interpret that you conspired to do this. Therefore they can charge you with murder, I can't even wrap my head around that? Well, I think it would be justified to some people because, in over here, we say, or will we dont condone torture, but
tell someone, but we have a muslim extremists who, as beheaded several american soldiers there like torture away His case they'll say well, this guy committed murder and he got away with it because he only served eighteen months. That's a small amount of time for the death of this young woman and they'll say well, you know australia is going to fail, were there to pick up the pieces and and do something we re it's just we rule and apply the law based on emotion, not based on process and that's more important to a lot of people yeah. So I get that, but he hears what happened so the prosecutor and the defence attorney get to air this case out in court, and the amazing thing is the judge, here's everything and that's it- we're throwing this case out. It was not enough evidence, he tells the process, you have nothing. You have nothing. You have made no case here and why is that again? You ve already said it is emotion. We are to have a guy that looks like a jerk
from any angle, you look out, he looks like a royal jerk. Then you have all these people who figure while he was down there along with her, nobody else has really paying attention so there thinking he had to have done it. His motive, the money but get this while their airing that case out of here- What are they doing as far as motive? What can they say is the motive here in this case its money right. What's the real money issue here, the fathers, the beneficiary she'd, never changed it to gabe We don't even know if he actually asked her to change it or not. It's really here say so. He's planning on murdering her, wouldn't you think he would check it. vitally important, maybe yeah. I mean me maybe he's an idiot and he didn't check. Also the judge brings up the the engagement ring might offend any of you that work at a diamond ring store right now, but engagement
diamond rings. Gold rings are the worst investment you could ever invest in. Like he's gonna get this ring back and resell, it went like us. Did you buy that ring from a store and walk out of it? That ring is not worth anything that uses paid for. Theirs is so many problems with the ring being part of the motive them Money spent on the trip, the amount of debt that she carried yeah far surpasses any kind of money that could have been gained by him when they did the math He comes out way in the red. This is not a good scenarios by murdering her hands up in a worse spot, not legally, but financially. This is a bad move. The judge made a clear there's absolutely zero motive here. Why would you marry someone go on this big trip, spend all this time with them and then murder them. There's no financial motive. Here there really isn t
father and family absolutely thinks gibbs guilty, and I get that in one of the things that her father says after the whole thing's thrown out is: will the judge didn't allow all this evidence he heard, and I just thought, because the judge listen to it himself and decided it was worthless. He didn't even get that far where he allowed the evidence in or out he threw the whole thing out. Here's the here's! The problem with this is even if Gabe absolutely killed her. He did not turn off her air supply cuz when they check her tank, they check her computer. She had used way more air than a normal diver would have her showed up because she was in a panic state. So we know she panicked because she used too much are so he turned off or are
You probably wouldn't use the lesser. Nobody saw gabe with their own eyes, turned this tank off and turn I call on all they saw, or they think they saw was they might have been embraced. Briefly. That's it, but that's explain because wade embraces her yeah and that's where the bare hug statement comes from. It doesn't come from people seeing its a confusion thing. Is that gave orders that way: you're wearing a face, mass goggle, all the stuff, when there's no real time, seeing an update going through these people's diving mass, they don't know who have no idea what's going on and it maybe it was gay because in that moment where he was trying to help her grab a hold of her and she knocked into knocked his face, mask who knows,
it could have been way that could have been gabe, but it doesn't prove that he turned his oxygen tank off. There is zero evidence. I look at it this way. You can't check fingerprints underwater, you can't there's no evidence there. You could say this was the perfect murder. If you like? Even if he did do it? You absolutely could not prove it, and I think the prosecutors theory is abs really wrong about the turning the oxygen tank. Often back on, you can't prove you can a legit, you can suggest it but you can't prove it there's no evidence to it, but that's one other things as they say. Well, how would she have drowned? She had plenty of air she had a regulator in her mouth. Well, my first was well. Is it possible to drown with a regulator in your mouth and I found out? It is because, just like the scheme asked, you need to keep your mouth sealed around the regulator. If you open up a new start yelling all
water will rush into your mouth and the regulator can actually stay in between your teeth. But if your lips break this he'll around the regulator. You learn water, it and you can drowned and she drowned. She didn't die from a lack of oxygen She died from water and her lungs, so that kind of goes in the face of the prosecutors theory. Unless assume he turned the air off and then she pay more and let water, and but this has been some That's been tried in the media outside of the courtroom sigh the court room were all the evidence is allowed to be in you. Ve had the austrian court say: This isn't an outright murder. They agreed the manslaughter charge. Then you have Alabama judge, he doesn't give two craps about what australia thinks he heard all of the evidence and he said, there's nothing here. I went to dive reforms where people at dive scoop all the time we're debating this. I noticed a trend and it happened with me when I first
in this case my just get the bare minimum reading articles on it. I thought he did it. He had of killer because they world down there alone, he's a great diver he's got four certifications. been diving since ninety six, he knew what he was doing. He could have easily down and got her. He didn't do that, but once you start learning the real facts pace as seen through the eyes of the people who understand what really happened. Then it starts become apparent that this became a witch hunt. Well, the short list here is: she was not a swimmer. She had a few panicked moments while she was training- and this is something that the police have the statements from the instructors. They said. This is what happened. She was visibly shaken. She was upset she couldn't handle it, but she was bound and determined to try and become a diver for the sake of this man. She loved so really they should have
a lot more time diving before they went to australia, the diving company should have been way more cognitive. Of who they were letting into that water. That day what happened here just like you said with a different slopes. of your novice or fear an intermediary fear and advanced skeer. You dont ski on the same slopes. They don't have a one fits all everywhere. They have different types of slopes just like in the water. When you're going diving they have. Depending on your skill level. might need to stay away from certain areas. This company was aware of it. Had their own policy, it's called the safe scooby system. They did not follow their own policies their own guidelines because she was such a novice. They were supposed to do some things prior to her even going anywhere. I think there is both the performance whither, so they could see where she was at that would like an evaluation die. They didn't do that when they spoke with her showing it
and dives they're, letting you go in a red divers access point that doesn't make He sense whatsoever. They don't have one of their experts with her their concern. And gave an expert in their letting him take her. They don't know him at all. It's not like they say monsieur logbooks, let's see everything you got, they just take him at their word. They didn't just kill her, but by ignoring their own policies. Which I bet they bow a lot more closely now by ignoring those policies they put her endanger, she should never. Have been down there because swimming in the ocean is completely different, being a pool, She was panicking pool and I will even lay a lot of that blame on gave that he shouldn't have taken her on that thing, but he does his along for the ride and he listened to what the company said, but he should have known better to get you say that, but let's were this way if he just taken around on a boat and they scooby die from there. What now look at this old differently here now he's response
no she's in a doll and she can make a call to buy I see him at more at fault, but if you're going through a company They ve been in business in nineteen, sixty nine. They should have been following there. policy making their policies are therefore reason I see parents run over their children in their driveways. I see people forget their baby, in their cars and they're not charge because as a terrible accident is a tragedy. This guy, allowing his wife to go down and treacherous waters as she shouldn't abandon. You guys can about fall, but do we charge him for that, whereas the malice? Yes, it It was a really bad decision and he might have me, a bad decision, that he didn't try to rescue her, but really is it his duty, or is it the company's duty to rectify the situation and rescue the divers, the people that are under their watch Not really should have been the question in this case. Not whether or not he did this never miss.
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Transcript generated on 2022-07-09.