« The Generation Why Podcast

The Eastburn Family Murders - 336


May 12, 1985. Fayetteville, North Carolina. A military family preparing to move from the USA to England made the difficult decision to sell the family dog. A man answers the ad and purchases Dixie. Just days later, a horrific discovery is made; Kathryn, Kara, and Erin Eastburn were found murdered in their home. Only 22 month Jana remained alive, though on the brink of death. Detectives moved quickly to track down the vicious killer. It wasn't long before they had a suspect. Not Gary Eastburn, the father and husband, but Timothy Hennis, another military man who had bought Dixie. Prosecuting Hennis would prove difficult as the evidence used against him either didn't match or was called into question. Was Hennis the murderer? Or did the authorities have the wrong guy?

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This is an unofficial transcript meant for reference. Accuracy is not guaranteed.
From wondering how I do to better now I'm doing. Ok just him, I had done some work. my leg, so a little sore, all I'm sure, you'll be all right. I just got back from the true ukraine podcast festival, which was very fun yeah. I heard that
podcasters didn't quite like Chicago that much they didn't like the city I don't know I just surprises me: I've been there a few times I like Chicago, I don't like it the winter time? But then again I dont like any city north of kansas city in the winter time, so it's not really chicago they. North of kansas city. I mean this: this area becomes a sheet of ice. Sometimes yes, so if you're going north of us, it's just worse, but if you haven't been to Chicago and were considering it before you her bad things about, I would say: go to chicago. one. I really like italian food they have. museums. They have a great aquarium but the shed and they got deep dish. Pizza carve out yeah. Sometimes you just need to go for it, but the festival was awesome and I have to say that being around our fans between england and Chicago and all the positivity and support, it's just been a nice change a pace from people on the internet.
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how an extent vacations tonight's case is kind of a doozy. I don't wanna give too much away, but we might actually have some double jeopardy happening and wrongful convictions. all kinds of stuff here so strap in you're goin on a little rollercoaster ride. When we talk about tonight, I'm not tonight we're talking about the murders of catherine kara and Erin Eastbourne many of you, if you have heard of this case better now as the Timothy Hennis case and is Very controversial, quick reminder here at the generation Y, We are not advocates and we do not follow narratives. Sometimes I feel like we need to remind people So this went down on may twelfth nineteen eighty five in favour
the north carolina gary ease burn. He was airforce captain. He was married to catherine and he was the father of Kara Aaron, an Jana being a Captain in the air force gary would spend time away from his family, so Catherine would take care of their kids. Kara was five and was three and little john I was just twenty two months old at the time and the direct to military bases near fair veil, one was pope air force base and the other one was fort bragg with the? U s: army gary had left to go to the squadron office school at the Maxwell air force base alabama. This is a ten weak course that he's going to do send off her school and its because, while he's an officer later day
year the family had planned to move to england catherine was real. and to move, but when you're part of the military. These are things that just happened. the family had an english setter named dixie. They couldn't bring the dog to england and it was going to have to be quarantined just a bunch of stuff, so they actually put an ad out in the paper to sell the dog, find it a new home because they didn't want the dog to be tortured in the process of this move to england and they put a price of ten dollars, and this is one thousand nine hundred and eighty five soto ours is a decent amount of money because I didn't want any as they put it crane
sir weirdos, to just get the dog and do something weird to the dark, so they sold the dock. This is where Timothy Hennis comes in. He responded to the add to buy I Dixie and on may seventh of nineteen eighty five he showed up and took the dog home. it was a difficult decision to get rid of the dog. I had the feeling that it was, the families dog. Again there are planning move to england, and gary was going to get a job as a liaison to the royal. therefore so big move, no just from us, and by the time this happened who comes out will have already been there, but it's a lot of travel and just imagine moving there.
It was may 11th one thousand nine hundred and eighty five gary has about a week left of training and he's waiting by a payphone for catherine to call because that's what we did back in nineteen. Eighty five is: we had pay phones and this was their routine. She doesn't. oh well, so Gary tries calling his house catherine's not answering so he gives law enforcement involves. Please check, which you know when you have a. Teen and when no one's answering the phone I mean this isn't a you, can just all their cell phone and find them at the grocery store. So he knows something's wrong. He hopes that maybe there was just an accident may One of the kids is sick and has just at the hospital something like that, but he doesn't know he's far away. This is only recourse, so he calls law enforcement
The sheriffs department does go to the house by the house's locked up, miss they dont see anything out of place. You're not going to enter the home so leave a note on the door for catherine to call Gary. now Sunday may twelfth its mother's day and a neighbor bob see felt who does that there were newspapers piling up in the driveway which, if they're gone on a trip or something that makes sense but d
families. Toyota station wagon is in the driveway, so that's their only car there home he goes up rings. The doorbell he's checking on them and you got to realize this. Is military people they're kind of a tight knit group so he's trying to figure out? Where are they at he's, knocking on the door? There's no answer and then he hears a baby crying inside the home, and so he goes home tells his wife to call the police and have them come out and see if they can get access to the home, because, obviously there's a baby, that's not being taken care of. So an officer from the cumberland county? Sheriffs department showed up at first? He didn't really want to do anything because he saw there was a note there from other officers, meaning a law enforcement as our bend the home he envelopes
jannah and that's the youngest one standing in her crib. He was looking in through a window and she was crying and she looked pretty rough, so he cut the window rain on the bedroom window and got access to the inside the house. Now Bob C4, was just outside watching this. Both of them knew, I think, pretty quickly that something really bad it happened. officer immediately upon entering the home smell and it was the smell of death which is horrible, and so he ass little Jana through the window to the neighbour she looked like she had been. Alone for a while? She probably had been left alone for at least a couple, if not several days She was dehydrated. Obviously her die. Had been changed. So she got help immediately. Nice the officers are going through the home as more called. Obviously
Work is done to see what can be done for little Jana and a doctor, Covered that she was just hours probably from death, so it is a good thing that another officer responded to the home two detectives: robber, biddle, jack watts. They arrive at around one p m there so smell a really horrible odor and eight percent. Through the home. They find it pair genes and some buttons from a shirt, and why men's underwear in the living room. The officers found kara dead. She was underneath a star wars, blanket in her room and had been pulled up as if she was afraid witches a very haunting site in the mass your bedroom, they found three year old erin. She was lying dead. I want by the bed and then Kathryn
mother was found on the other side. This is on the floor. and she was naked from the waist down They obviously need to contact Gary eastbourne because well, at this point, He has one member remaining of his family and I can add. I can't imagine what a phone call like this would be like for either cipher either side for the person calling or for the person having to see this is, and they can't even tell him on the phone, although tell him because Gary nose like whilst what they call me something bad as happened all they'll tell him is there has been a death in the family and he needs to come home now. We obviously in alabama he's not a suspect because he's
in this class. He's been doing all this stuff, so he comes home to this disaster. This horrific scene of his entire family being wiped out, except for his youngest daughter. Now the one thing they gary can help out with here is he does know that the family dog was sold to an individual, but he didn't know the person's name. Remember. It was Catherine that was there to sell the dog gary was alabama, so they really have any leads at this point. They can It is a home and attempt to collect evidence. they now only have one witness and that's Jana, so they bring in a child psychologist named Helen bradley and she interviews Jana. You can actually and a little bit of the footage of this online on youtube, its color haunting. It's really sad and We'll talk more about Jana later because She grows up. She had
some things that you might want to hear about. But why. can they really get out of this young While she was essentially a baby. She's only what about two years old and someone at that age. What can they tell you if they weren't. I mean she wasn't even in the room when this was going on Helen took notes and she said that. at one point, Jana said hide from the burglar he's going to come. Get me when she showed little Jana picture of catherine, JANET kissed, the picture. What we could take from this is maybe the so called burglar entered the room. That's I mean, as did the best, I can guess Helen concluded that little Jana probably had not seen anything that night but had heard things of course now they're wondering why his Jana spared when every
I was in the house, was killed. We haven't even talked about how they were murdered, yet maybe we should do that yeah cause. If you think that this person would not have killed Jana, I think they would have because kara was five years old. Errand was three years old and catherine was thirty one. At the time the medical examiner said that kara had been stabbed multiple times and her chest. Aaron was beaten to death on her chest and her back Catherine had been stabbed fifteen times and she was also raped now, any examination they did find semen, and so they took swab, but they didn't find any other trauma to. Then, when I was reading about this, they said it's not incur at all for rape
and even murdered rape victims to show no signs of trauma, and you have member to show had little ones in the home with her, so we don't know how they played into them. they may have been threatened as part of this to get catherine to comply. The other disturbing thing is all three kathryn her two daughters had their throats cut. This is to make sure that their dead, so when you think of Jana, whose less than two years old yeah, this person would have taken all of them out if he had seen Jana in that room, let's check out the evidence that they collected they found fingerprints. They found hair who did appeal pubic care outside they found shoeprints. They also perform luminal testing. They found blood's made on the walls.
And also inside the master bedroom, and it did appear If someone had tried to clean up the blood may thirteenth, a witness comes for. Word a young man by the name of patrick cone- I he said he was walking along Somerville road, which is the road that the east burns house was on. He said he was walking. the morning of friday may tenth patrick, was a gender and worked early in the morning. So this is not. Google, for him, but at around three thirty a m he saw tall white man wearing a knit cap. Gene and a black members only jacket leaving these burns. Driveway, though the thing here is members only jacket. Was this a thing back in the day? Yes, it was. Do you know anything about these jackets? I mean I was pretty young at the time, but I do remember the brand name like a status thing.
yeah. I mean you're wearing that you're cool guy, meaning in the nineties. That's when starter jackets became the cool thing, so probably not a a comparison, but it is a status jacket and he is able to describe this man describe his facial features, describe what kind of jacket he was wearing and even describe the white chevy chevette that he drove and he spoke with him. The man said leaving a little early this morning, so this is a pretty I think, reliable witness who saw- somebody leaving the house where this
horrendous murdered happened early in the morning. He has no business being there. This seems. Did I guess match up on may thirteenth. Gary spurn has the difficult task of going through his home. With the detectives he's there just to see if anything's out of place. You know I mean the tv not missing. You never really know what could have been taken off addresser out of a drawer. Gary notices pretty quickly that katharine's atm card and the paper that she kept, but the password for that card were missing and now, if they can put together when they believe these birds were murdered, then? Maybe they can figure out when they need to start looking and where
for evidence that this atm card may have been used, they find that the newspapers had been piling up since made ninth had been collected. So that's friday morning, so this kind of starts to match up Patrick cones, testimony that he saw this person early friday morning or patrick cone is able to provide this description. And a composite sketches created, and it's actually put out on a broadcast on may fifteenth. Now that point there d saying There is something we want to speak with, who is driving a white chevy chevette and had picked the dog up from the home I think this is you know they don't want to alarm anyone but they're saying hey. We need to speak with you, so Timothy he's eating lunch at home with his wife, Angela, and he sees this broadcast asking for whoever bought the dog to
in for questioning Timothy said that that was when he realized that the woman who sold him that was the same woman who had been murdered so too The and Angela and their newborn daughter, cristina, went to the police station and Timothy spoke with investigators Soon as he walks Andy's investigators notice, that Timothy is a dead ringer for this police sketch that Patrick cone had provided so investigators are honing and on Timothy, because remember they weren't saying we want the guy that was seen early in the morning to come in for questioning they do said. We want the guy that bought the dog to comment, so Timothy goes in and they start
interrogating him like they should Timothy talks about his whereabouts. That night on may ninth, he said He had driven his wife and daughter to their parents house and then returned home on the way he stopped for gas. He admitted that he had bought d c on may seventh, but according to him, he arrived before nine p m, but did not go to the east burn home. The night I mean the night of the murders yeah, in other words hey, I I bought dixie, I'm being clear with you, I'm being honest, but I didn't go back to that house. Yeah Timothy said that he liked the dog
and took her to see how she would get along with their dog. He said that catherine watched him from the front door as he drove off the day bought the dock, but he claims that he didn't know. Catherine's name and he'd, never return to the east burn home. He makes this Very, very clear catherine called him on made ninth to make sure dixie was getting along. Okay and Timothy said. Yes, now Timothy is cooperating with police. He gives them samples, saliva and a hair sample along with fingerprints and palmprints, because these are some of the things that found at the murder scene he's at the station for seven hours towards the end. He began to understand that he was this us
in this case. That's one way to say it or, according to the interrogators, he's getting a little testy so they don't like his attitude, but seven hours of questioning whether the guilty party or not it back and get in doing so. The detectives they let Timothy go, but they have a pitcher of him all these things. They bring patrick cone back in to reestablish identification and they put out of a photo line up for patrick and Timothy is number two patrick says: number five has his nose, but it's definitely number two number two words
timothy and the reason why Patrick is so sure is because of this nose? Patrick is a black eye. Any says this white I had a black eyes knows: that's his memory, q, that's what he tells investigators, so he sang its number two because of his nose. I can identify him, they also say: can you pick his car out for us and Patrick once again picks the car out along with Timothy, from a photo line up? There is no doubt in his mind. I believe, Patrick, is on the right path here, be sure to check out where the crowded sing in theatres July, fifteenth based on the best selling Book comes a juicy mystery full of romance murder and deadly secrets. Daisy Agur Jones plays kyar an outsider, who grew up alone in the marshes of north carolina.
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After the dog was purchased. Another person came forward. It was Nancy moser. She was an ex girlfriend of Timothy's. she said that, even though they had broken up and had married other people, she said that Timothy sometimes drop by our house. Well, she said: thou may ninth, he came by our house because he knew that her husband was away, and while they were talking Nancy, tapped, his wedding ring asked how his marriage was and then he said she left me. So he lied. He lied. it seemed like. Maybe he was trying to see if she was interested in sex, but she wasn't now. This was he was showing up for a hook up and she wasn't having But his alibi was said he had driven his wife and daughter to their parents home and then come back. Mitya stopped for gas,
then again back home. Why? How is that a good alibi if he stopping by an o, girlfriends place and telling her oh yeah, my wife left me looking good, not looking very good now remember there was an atm card missing that atm. It was used twice that weaken and the maximum amount was withdrawn. It was a hundred and fifty dollars, oddly enough timothy owed, rent which was around three hundred dollars, I'm going give a little bit of a pass here. If you stole someone's atm card you're going to just withdraw the maximum, that's just going to happen. So is this a coincidence that two withdraws of the maximum happens to equal his rent while he's able to pay his rent? Ah that, following week, I'm not a tax,
auditor, but it lines up here, but how many other people had a random three hundred and some dollars that was do right. Then yeah, it's possible here, but The morning of friday may tenth Timothy had taken his black men. is only jacket to the dry cleaners. And I may eleventh he spent about five hours burning the contents of a fifty five gallon barrel in his back yard. This something a number of his neighbors saw, so is it has backyard burning? Stuff Andy happens to take his jacket to the dry cleaners. You need your your members, only jacket cleaned, I get it, but it's just the time aiming here- is really bad. I kind of wanna talk this members only jacket and the dry cleaners, because right
Everything looks really bad for timothy, and this is no short I, how tall as he just six four taller than this is a sizeable guy, so him- taking this members only jacket to dry, cleaner, seems very suspicious, but according to the dry cleaners, when there asked the response is that it was just a general cleaning. And that if there had been any blood on the jacket amber, would have required a different cleaning process, so any blood would shown up with loom at all. It would have been there. It would have been totally gone there because they are going to test that jacket and when they do, they don't find blood. Now, as far as the aid,
gm goes. They find a woman who had used the atm three minutes after the withdraw from catherine's atm card. So I like, while we found her because you know they just checked the log of the atm machine and she claims that there was a man who was very tall blonde hair, camouflage pants and was getting into a light colored car. So Timothy is tall blonde. and the military and he drives a white that it really matches him. This is witness testimony really and the sad thing is at the time they dont have cameras on the atm machines now. Otherwise we could just say pull up that footage
yeah it'll come up later, but I just want to mention a right now. There's some controversy about this because she used the atm machine three minutes after three minutes is a long time so did she see the person that was in front of her using an atm, but it's three minutes she, was in standing line but again taken due account that nineteen eighty five atm machines, aren't as quick as they are today even worth. You you find one with dial up out some field. it's a little longer. She was waiting her car for the atm. So three minutes, I think it's a little inconsequential. She describes Timothy and they didn't tell her. This is the guy we're looking for that's the way she described him and he could strolled back to his vehicle. Why does it have to be that it took him?
minute and a half two minutes use a machine and then he ran for it, and why does it have to be that she ran for the atm right after he used it? She might have sat in her car and got things in order and then went to the eight him after he left lay the way she this man getting into his car and its he is gonna. He sticks out like a turn. A punishable again obviously we're Timothy hennis, his arrest, they're, taking this guy to trial and Timothy had been in the military he had been in the army. They could have court martialed him for the murders, but this is a crime that happened off base and so This is where they, I guess it they would say they allow the civilian court to handle this matter. I mean they. The military court could have totally handled it, because
He was a member of the military and he murdered the wife of an officer yeah. I'm surprised that the military didn't go after him, but they it didn't happen on base. So this is the way they go about it. Timothy's father, hires, two prominent attorneys one is gerald beaver and Billy Richardson before the trial. Let's just say that his defense attorneys think he's guilty as hell. They think that he is going to be found guilty and they offer him a plea bargain. They beg him to take two counts of second degree,
murder and he would most likely get two consecutive licences as opposed to the death penalty, because when you murder three people, two of them are children in such a heinous way. They're gonna kill you. The state is going to go after the death penalty, but Timothy said I'm not pleading guilty to something I didn't do so. This goes to trial. Will the prosecutions cases pretty straightforward? They have witnesses. That saw him either being the residence or him on the street or his car on that street, or saw him using the atm card, any Edith, I have an alibi because his former girlfriend said now he stopped by my place that night, so he couldn't have been with his wife.
And his daughter is she lying for him exactly it's it's a mess that night, but the state in the prosecutor cad goes full bore on him during this trial right they can't show restraint. I think they get to emotionally involved and they have this screen. That's in the courtroom. They show graphic photographs of the crime scene and of the victims. And even during the closing arguments, prosecutors yelling, there's your baby killer, you no meaning there's Timothy hennis. He murdered these people. This family he's the one responsible for death of these kids in their mother during the trial.
While their showing these crime scene photos which they they can show the photos? I'm I'm all for that. You have to see what this what happened? What took place and Timothy asked his defence attorneys. He said how am I supposed to react to this? Am I supposed to not respond, and then it makes me look guilty because I'm unfazed by these debts should I bring don't cry. Does that make me look like I'm guilty like I have remorse like? I don't know what to do because they're leaving these pictures of this murder up on the wall. Essentially this huge screen during the entire trial, the defence I think there are woefully amber haired it's it's all. It's almost like they feel like they can't counter the states case. How did you feel about that? It just seemed like they didn't know how to attack with
says they didn't know how to paint a different picture here. Well, in the defences defence, the term. There was some exculpatory evident that they were not provided during this first trial and during capital murder, trial. a big deal, because you get an automatic peel and a lot of things start to come out now. The defence did show that none of the physical evidence really match Timothy? They showed that the fingerprints to match the hare fibres didn't match. So there saying nothing here ties our guy to, except for the eyewitness testimony. And we all know eyewitness testimony is some of the most unreliable testimony out there right right, but he's really tall and he drives a white chevette.
This is where I have a little bit of difficulty with that by. It did feel as though the prosecution hadn't easy time really and they were having this home. With these graphic pictures and waiting at Timothy saying he's your baby killer and so What is the jury to think there I mean it. Is a trial of emotion, not even of evidence. At this point, I right they can't tide. finally, they checked the blood, they checked the fingerprints, they checked the hare, they can't make it match Timothy and I say, Can't make it man for a reason will talk about that later, but the jury delay ready for ten hours July, fifty eight in eighty six there's a verdict: three counts of first to be murder and one count of rape, so first degree all. Three deaths he's going away, he's going to death row. He was only one of seventeen people on death row and rally
north carolina nine weeks after he's gone to prison. He received a letter, it said dear mister hennis. I did the crime, I murmured the east burns are you do and the time I'll be safely out of north carolina? When you read this thanks, mr axe, MR acts, how suspicious and serious the sheriffs department receives the same letter. It's also signed by MR acts. Is it possible that someone is gloating too timid behind and the police saying: hey I didn't get away with it. Sorry, maybe it's his blood. His finger prints, his evidence that that they found at the murder scene. I wish there was some more analysis done on these letters, because I saw one the letters they exist and
This is just my non expert opinion, but it really we looked to me like someone wrote it with their non dominant hand, have been right. everything with my non dominant hand all week, because I really met- at my right hand and I'll. Tell you what, like my my penmanship bad enough. What do we make of these letters it's possible that the real murderer is out there and is gloating, or maybe this somebody trying to find an n of reasonable doubt while we The prosecution feels they feel like they got the right person and they don't put any stock in these letters Gary. he's Berne and we does have Jana, but man. He lost his wife of twelve years, he's is to other daughters and he was thinking cancelling his move to england and nineteen. Eighty eight
He and Jana do move to england and he does take that liaison job, but he moves there and then timothy genesis. he'll reaches the north carolina supreme court and his defence journey set in. I was saying you know they kept doing all these graphic pictures up on the screen and pointing at my clients, saying he's a baby killer. Is that really fair? Is that just is that the kind of court that you know we want? Well, the court rules? Five hundred and twenty two and ten favour granted him a retrial, which means Gary burn thought he was done, The party was put away on death row and not so fast has got to come back. I'm torn on the graphic photos being shown because, again it's that's the crime scene they're allowed to show it. Can you show it too much? Can you be egregious with that?
No, I currently you can be because the court ruled by the two it. What it is, I believe is they took it too far and they made a connection in the minds of the hers saying so all this violence and see this over here, they're connected that seem like an unfair trial. I just this is the first time I've come across, something like that and apparently had set a precedent right right in other cases. This is this is the kind of thing that it can get you a retrial. I think it's again where you have to be careful, you're going to take some of the trial. You need to kind of remove the emotion from it until may be or closing statements. They may be fire off, but you know try to be very clinical go through I'm, sir. Some people are arguing with me already saying: hey, you need to go, some emotion out there. You need to make connections for the jury, but I think you can t
do far, and unless you are checking yourself well, now you're gonna, let someone get away were now to a second trial. The appeal the original prosecutor has left for private practice, so they bring into new prosecutors, who I they're pretty confident we ve already got this guy wants slammed dunk. we're just gonna do the same thing right, arright, calvin, collier in John dixon are brought in as the prosecution. They feel like they ve got this case. One already I mean they already had a jury, agree what can the defence do differently? Their strategy completely changes. and they are going to attack all of the I would. Testimony in this case, starting with Patrick com, yeah. I think the motive for them was they really felt like they had failed. Their client miserably they crowded.
Now they get a second chance to totally redeem themselves, so Patrick, wasn't the best guy he had. Committed a lot of crimes, minor crimes like disorderly conduct drunken public. direction of an officer attempting to use a stolen atm card driving with and expired registration all of these charges. All of these things were dismissed against patrick and Patrick, whose drinker would brag and say you can't arrest me. I'm helping you guys out on the witness in the heinous trial. Hey Patrick feels important has purpose in life and he is the star witness whose pointing the finger at Timothy hennis and not to judge him
much I mean we make. It certainly is not the best guy, but the problem is: he is needed for trial. This isn't just oh house, down the street. Oh well, he got drunk in public and pushed an officer. No. This is an important witness for the prosecution in a multiple murder trial. This is not the kind of thing you want? This is now becoming baggage and he's bragging about it. Patrick even has a friend who videotapes him, I'm I'm assuming its videotape. At this point him walking walking by the east burns home country Reciting, like you re retelling, the story and he's all over the place is very animated guy, but he doesn't retail the story properly.
There is even a point where there are like. Could you have seen this? Could you have actually been able to describe the sky and mean this goes forward the defences calling meteorologists to find out what the weather was that night, where the street lights, functional, just all kinds of stuff to discredit, Patrick yeah, It said it was a clear night with stars out and the meat I'll just checking the data was like now is actually really cloudy overcast, but do we need to say it I mean he picked Timothy has out, he was able to describe him you know. I mean so like this. Isn't it doesn't matter whether there were stars or not whether was cloudy or not he, who he had seen but ass time went on just like what happened. Thus our memory of things can change and so we don't remember them the right way. Gimme a day. My memory changed
I really feel sympathy for people who have to give test. Only a trial and unless they can see their original statement, We don't know. If they're going to be able to replicate that testimony for you accurately even close to accurate. They go on to discredit the. Women at the atm machine saying three and a half minutes. They set up a pretty much of a stopwatch in the courtroom and say this is how long three half minutes is, and they make the jury sit there and it's the longest silent three and a half minutes. You could probably ever experience in a court room. So the jury's like maybe she didn't see this guy. Maybe he used the atm and moved on and she's just wanting to help they hired an investigator and one of the things they discovered was. About two months before the martyrs gary in cash,
and had received threatening phone calls in the middle of the night The man who had who is calling knew her name and said that he was coming over. This isn't like they came up with a theory. This is something that Gary admitted to in court. Most, you know, I've been an audible subscriber for like a decade now audible offers an incredible action of audio books across every genre? I personally love the audible originals. They have everything from top celebrities down experts and, as an audible member, I get access to a growing selection of audio books, the originals podcast, it's all included in my membership, I get one title a month to keep and I get to hear exclusive podcast that I can't find anywhere else. I just but the audio book anti social, about online extremism, techno utopians and the hijacking of the american conversation,
audible, hope you discover new ways to laugh, be inspired or be entertained. New members contrived for free for thirty days, does audible dot com, slash gaeta, BP were text gaeta BP, two five hundred five hundred; that's audible, dot com, slash cheetah, BP or text gaeta BP, two five hundred five hundred to try audible, free for thirty days, audible, dot, com, slash J, w p, so you have threatening phone calls, and then you have this letter from MR x. The defences disconnecting the dots for people at this point, meaning you're looking at seventy hennis as a suspect, but we have. some other suspects now and we don't know all their names all their faces. But we have other leads here better unexplored I don't know if this is the final nail in the coffin, but the defence fines. A nother I guess witness or so
backed. However, you want to look at this and its somebody who looks similar to Timothy and somebody who the prosecution knew about during the first trial and never disclosed to the defence. Yeah, it's say teenager by name of John john awe and I think in and I could be missed made you know they made a tv show about this case and I believe the the same actor for both characters, while anyway, he said he was here on the neighbourhood, because he was a light sleeper. He was out at that time of the morning and he also was wearing a members, only jacket, so maybe he was the person that Patrick Cohn saw right exactly. The defense has really taken the prosecution's case point by
point and kind of tore down made. It seem really insignificant. Now, oh sure, you have two witnesses who are they, while one is this criminal type who likes to brag about how he can't be charged with crime anymore because easier witness and then another witness who well. and not a very good winners, because it was too long after the fact after the other card was used. So how are you tying that together again you other skipping right past the point of hay. We can give you description of this guy. We know what his car looks like. That's all throne because now the jury's focused on wait a minute other always witnesses who are giving testimony of hey. Wait. There These other leaves that are not explored, and now we A guide us in the neighborhood who looks just like Timothy hennis. He he could totally be mistaken form. The defence also goes through
The regular rigour, moreau of none of the physical evidence connects timothy member that footprint outside. Well, it was three sites This is too small. Whatever the size was monsieur, he probably warlike zeiss fifteen or sixteen. There was a spot, a blood found on a bathroom tal. They say that this did not match Timothy Mrs blood typing they're, not doing dna at this point. So don't think dna is his blood type. There was they pubic care that was found dead in me, anyone now I know in today's world. We realise that hair analysis not the best science anymore, but at the time, It's totally not a match, and this is going into the trial. This is what the jury is hearing and again, There's no blood found on the members only jacket that Timothy hennis had been using the
doug through the ashes of the fire, couldn't find anything that connected back to the eastern home. But of course, I would argue, you burn. Staff were a reason. That's because stuff. You were looking for it. Doesn't it this, or at least not in a state. You can trace it backed anywhere in the defence bought. Another members only jacket put blot on it, sent it to the cleaners, brought it back, doused it with luminal in it lit up like a christmas tree even after being cleaned, so they're doing the same thing to Timothy's members only jacket and it's not lighting up. so they're saying, there's no blot on here, although that's like they're they're, trying to say he was wearing the jacket at the time. We have no idea now. Another p exculpatory evidence was timothy, was state.
and on the base for an overnight during one of the times that the atm card was used in when the defence tried to find the logs, because the military keeps logs of everything the day that Timothy was on duty, that this atm card was used was missing from this file and the defences searching all over asking the military asking anyone. Finally, they find out that it's been checked out by the prosecution, another piece of exculpatory evidence that really would have helped. It would have given him at least an alibi for the eighteen usage april, ten nineteen, eighty nine something happens in the second trial. It didn't happen and the first one. and that is Timothy. Hennis took the stand in his own defence, which typically is a bad move according to
defence a journey, and I really dont get it in this case simply because they really were able to counter everything or at least- slide their own evidence and testimony up against the prosecutions to create reasonable doubt. But I think this is a reaction first trial where he didn't testify any worried about how he was coming off this time. can actually take the stand and if he wants to press emotion, he can put it in his own, on tax, so he is now speaking for himself. He comes off as well as it can get. As one of the jurors said. Frankly, he looked like the kind of a whole that could have done it. You didn't really come off our great, but the jury deliberates a week later and they find empathy not guilty on all counts, so there's enough reasonable doubt that they say no
They may not have loved the guy, but I feel like based on what the defence didn't court. Somebody jurors really They really were happy with how this ended up and they felt for him. They saw his wife. They saw his little daughter They saw their reunion and they couldn't help but come over and be a part of that celebration. They really felt like where freeing a guy who had been wrongly convicted before they were setting him free, a good feeling right. This was a raw full conviction and an honourable person, this was a good man who just was suffering the hammer of the law, so
Firstly, the army had been wondering what to do a timothy during this, but once he was exonerated are the army gave him an honourable discharge, but Timothy was a military man, so he ends up reinvesting against the advice of his defence attorneys. I have to add who said you shouldn't go back to the military. You should just go into the private sector, but against this advice he goes back in. He serves for hawkeye insight over a decade now He gets three years worth back: pay a good conduct, metal, Annie's, promoted to staff sergeant. He goes to saudi arabia, a part of the operation desert shield. He then went
to Somalia, it's after black, hawk down he's all over the place. He has a very successful career in the military and then he moves back to fort drum in new york than fort Lewis and Washington, one thousand nine hundred and ninety eight, and it goes bad two lakewood washington. He becomes a scout master for Andrews boy scout. yeah. He had yet another child. He had a son with Angela This is a guy whose life is really taking off and it can't be said enough, but you know the people he worked with the officer above him. Everyone said this is the best of the best. He ends up retiring after twenty three years,
He was a master sergeant at the time, so there is a book entitled innocent victims and it's about the eastbourne murders. The author had interviewed timothy It was this big thing. They were going around promoting this book and even teaching classes about advanced criminal intelligence techniques, they were using the e spurn murders. As their case study, This is showing how cases go wrong and its talking about new techniques and technology. Hence, dna tat can go back and solve cold cases. So after class, a detective name, Larry trotter meets with the instructor and they start talking about the evidence in this case they're saying well. If Timothy has been exonerated,
then the murder is still out there and we need to find him we need to reach. examined the evidence in this case with the new technology at our disposal. they go down and start tracking down samples from the cumberland county sheriff's office and go going to the investigative crime lab and finding all of this stuff so the author, scott wisdom and he's thinking, hey, he was found guilty and then found not guilty he's, not the guy and if we can run dna on the rate kit that they took it exonerate for real hey, he definitely didn't do it. It's somewhere also sperm, because Timothy Hennessy said for decades I never went back to the house after I bought the dog. He should
I have been there and this swab should not go back to him. So here we are. They want to find the responsible party for this murder, so they start doing dna testing. on this swab. Yes, the swab was sent to the north carolina state bureau of investigation crime lab that was in raleigh. It took about a year. Results came back and wait for the sample matched the dna of Timothy hennis. A valuable swab, the medical examiner at the time this was used said that it was very clear that someone had raped catherine eastbourne, And sperm can hang around for a few days. The longer the time goes, the less intact. They are. This is just to give you some idea of why they examine We know how close the time of day
Friends, death did someone rape her. So this is ironic, I guess It is irony because scott, the author was thinking We can exonerate totally exonerate Timothy here we just need to dna, test the rape kit, and yet it comes back and it doesn't exonerate em. It puts the crosshairs, directly on him in a way that many people took a step back like whoa wait a minute. We didn't see this coming now. Obviously, the Seclusion Gary east burned. There were a number of people who, even though they felt the weight of this, did they they were expecting this. Really, if you ask them, who, who did this crime is timid? Vienna's he's been found, not guilty he's been.
Zander raided by the legal system, and now we have new evidence that puts him at the crime scene put some literally wit the victim. What do you do with that? I mean we have double jeopardy, so there's no such thing trying somebody for the same crime twice. But if you were in the military, obviously it makes things a little different and there's something in the constitution about dual sovereignty, state and federal government's and we ve, seen this before with the mcdonald case. The military can step in and try you exactly, and he was a member of the military at the time he would and court martialed by the military. But there was a little negotiation between the military and the civilian courts. They decided to let the civilian courts have it. The army did further testing of the evidence. Do you want
through it. Now when they talk about the problems with these state crime lab well, let's just go into a like. This goes to a military court. Martial K, military ree in states, Timothy hennis, just to charge him what these murders yeah you get reinstated. You get your pay, you get your benefits, oh and you get a trial you're fighting for your life again, the defence. Now it's different defence, because, yes to use military court have to fight this dna evidence. It's actually not hard for them to call it into question because one it's been so long and it's like well did they collected curve key in dna. You have to wear gloves. You have to do all these things. There's a process here that wasn't follow
because dna wasn't a thing at the time they also check under the fingernails of catherine and the children. They end up finding dna under their fingernails that doesn't exactly match timothy, but it more or less inconclusive one more question they bring in there were a lot of issues. While a lot is sort of relative, but we ve talked about crime, labs and chain of custody in the past and the evidence room at this sheriff's office. Well, there was a law enforcement officer that took it upon himself to steal guns from the evidence room, so china custody called into question. Then they talk about d
evidence laboratory that was doing the testing and what are they find their errand? Well, the north carolina state crime lab I ve, been embroil alive controversy because it appeared as though they were doing testing only to benefit the prosecution at the results didn't help them, but this kind of tossed aside, if it can help them, though, put it in the best light for them, and so reports are not exactly type. Honestly, things are held back. This is the same crime lab that dealt with e michael Paine, in case and so they're saying hey, you know. Without these questions and with all these investigations going on. Why are we just to accept this dna evidence. Well. the prosecution didn't just settle with this one crime lab they actually took other
Evidence was his second smear and they sent that off to another crime lab to have it tested, and it also match timothy hennis. Now no question that this trial comes down to for me. The way I read it was that the defense was kind of in trouble. At this point. as you can argue, all day, long about which witnesses in our liable. You can say that this instant match him, but when have dna and from a swab that was swathed from the victim place into a container and sealed and then see inside of an envelope and then stored for all these years.
It doesn't matter. If that box was being tipped upside down or knocked over, because it's in a sealed container there was two swabs that they had tested. This was spermatozoa that was found. Remember Timothy only gave blood, saliva, fingerprints and hair. He didn't give any sample like that for them to be dna, testing swabs, from that places him there and there's no contamination cross contamination happening here. They defence earlier one of the lawyers on the defence. Side feels like they need a hail. Mary is the way I look at this or you might argue they some information, because they were worried, well being and sensitive, but their hell Mary play as I put it, is to say: ok Well, we don't like the crime lab, but you have.
dna hit, and I should also add that defence tested the dna is well. They say Timothy went by and had consensual sex with catherine S, Berne and the rest it was never brought up was because he felt it would be the already suffered enough, why tell them that this wife and mother was sleeping with this stranger? That she'd only met when he come over to buy the dog, but he had not admitted this for decades. This was not part of his alibi. This was not part of his explanations. This is literally. Oh. You finally found something tying me too. this murder to this crime. So now I have to come up with an explanation when I dont like about this- and I bet it no one liked about it. Pretty much other than the defence and too behind us was that they're saying Catherine S, burne was.
thing around on her husband with their children home in their basically their bad mouthing her they're trying to attacker? character and she's, not there. She was a victim. In this case she was raped and murdered, and now they're basically dragging her name through the mud. Why? To save Timothy henderson- and here is why advocacy is so problematic is because, if you become advocate in, and I'm not saying you shouldn't ever be an advocate, but in a case like this, where they dna came back and it nailed timothy hennis to the wall and you continue to be- an advocate and you're willing to throw victims names under the bus save the sky, the defence there. There was a lot of people still in Timothy's corner, and they said how does it happen that they got the exact lab result they needed when all the other physical evidence points to
what else. Well all the other physical evidence might not pertain to the crime at all the hairs, the fingerprints all things just things in the house, you can't put a time stamp on any of that. It's just there the dna under the fingernails, just there if we had our fingernails tested right now, you would find other people's dna under else. Their recent studies on this. If you want to look it up, there are deep profiles end up under your fingernails, despite endorse all kinds of regular activities because, as are techniques to find dna get better. Well, the more information we find. How do we use that information? This is not look,
good for timothy and as much as I thought he might have been railroaded in that first trial as much as I kind of took issue with the military coming back adam and saying: well, they didn't find you guilty, but we're gonna, have a go at it april. Eighth, two thousand ten the jury deliberative for three hours, what was their finding, they find him guilty. Three counts: a premeditated murder. I realise this is twenty years later. Is I always say if you run a trial through over and over again, you could come out with a dive
result every time, and I think that this is a perfect example. First time he's found guilty. Second time he's found not guilty third time in the military court he's found guilty again and it's all different results because of certain evidence that is or isn't presented during trial. Certain things that are deemed inadmissible or admissible witnesses do better or worse, and the judge who is pretty much the courtroom. Referee gets to determine what goes and what doesn't during the military trial. Since his dna evidence was presented, the defense-
wanted everything tested now that blood spot on the town that was used to clean up. They want that test it. They want all the blood smears on the wall tested and the judge says no and the defence takes issue because they say won't, wouldn't you want at all tested sure, but why do you need to when you have the dna from the swap. This is the issues that people have is what and go in what's not end with this case, I I coincide with the judge, I feel When this is the guy. You connect him because he bought the dog and he never admitted any sexual conduct and twenty plus years And none of the evidence goes with him. Well, people that still defend him. Well, they have to
do mental gymnastics jested make this work, although this was too did this was cross contamination. This was this was that, but this is it. This is the smoking gun. Dna put him there and he said he wasn't there again. You can find a problem with what the mill harry did here, but in the end I- I don't know how you find timothy hennis to be not the killer here, Dna evidence is pretty clear. They tried, sir bring this out. I mean there were arguments that the way that they recalled him to duty just to court martial him seems wrong. It seems wrong. And you can argue that you can say I don't agree with that. But that's what happened and you know I I've I am a firm believer that sometimes you make your own bed and you it TIM hennis did that he made these choices near. We talk little bit about motive in this case your
to me was well once they had the dna, it doesn't matter anymore, you're right. It doesn't now the prosecution before they had that they were lining up as oh well, He went over to his ex girlfriend place because he wanted sex and his wife. It just a child not too long before, and they weren't having sex. So he was on the hunt for that many decided to go back over so the burn home because he knew that woman was home alone yeah and there are still people who argue: his innocence, Gary ease, burne was asked. What's the thing you miss most about your family, he said I just missed them Now, obviously, this case is controversy or because the military played their trump card, as it were, They re able to step in because of dual sovereignty there. It will step in and say no
The dna shows you the killer and take you to trial, and they did it, and I dont faulty one for being upset about the process. If you don't like that, I get it, but I can tell you most people whether there right or wrong, most people working off motions will say a woman was, raped and murdered her too little dog. Hers were murdered viciously this I almost got away with it and there are very happy that he was found guilty in the end The other sad thing is: is Jana, who was only twenty two months old, when this happened, she visits the grave with her dad or other relatives, and she says she doesn't feel anything in that sir sad because she has no. inaction. With these people, these family member, she lost she's been robbed of them there. rays of who they were so the killer, took.
More than just her siblings and her mother
Blood ties the award winning on your drama from wondering returns for its third season strange days with another thrilling story about greed, power and deception. Five, years have passed since eleanor play by giving Jacobs up community took over as ceo of the infamous richly family empire. Alongside her half brother Santana, play by christian navarro of thirteen reasons why, together, they decide to invest the family fortune in a groundbreaking, controversial, new drug but ash fucking revelations about the new treatment emerge. Eleanor and Santana go to every length to protect their control of the rich one family dynasty as Ellen His father did always say: medicine is a bloody business. Listen to blood ties strange days by joining one replied in the one recap, or an apple podcast, and for the first time and exclusively to one reply. Subscribers and the wondering Ty season three, as presented in dolby at most a revolutionary audio technology for the most immersive sound experience possible subscribe today.
Transcript generated on 2022-07-09.