April 5, 2015. South West England, UK. Victoria Cilliers decided to jump out of a plane as her husband suggested she should. She was an experienced parachutist and instructor. Parachuting might be just the thing to do for herself. But after she jumped, she realized soon after that something was wrong. Her parachute wasn't working and the reserve didn't work correctly, either. Victoria plummeted to the earth while her fellow parachutists watched in horror. Join us as we discuss a case involving love, betrayal, and devious plots.
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This is an unofficial transcript meant for reference. Accuracy is not guaranteed.
From wondering I dont another readjusting, how are you doing good? We have a bunch of updates real quick for this episode. First off I was on a podcast called my passion case check it out. It's his first step,
out, but other announcements reactor I'm still waiting for word,
and when frame season, two will be released so stated
Sorry, but things happen
and were really try
to do our due diligence to make sure it's as good as we can make it and speaking of other pod
ass were working on, some of you may have heard,
that I just released deadly
adventures I partnered up with minds of man
this and the first two episode
they're out there go check it out. You can find them on
wondering plus also this
is the last announcement of this before the show happens,
just then I will be at panic fast in Kansas city at the armor theatre
on january, twenty fourth of twenty twenty and with us
we'll be charlie from crime lines. We deftly would recommend, checking out her shout and retired detective gary genk
who is the host of gang land wire. So if you're in a mob stuff check that out, get your tickets at panic, film, fest, dot, com,
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how an extent vacations so I've promise
everybody that this year,
they do a lot more international cases. Technically. This will be our
first international case non american case
and while I give much more away by unexcited to cover this cases, things are not your typical.
Murder, mystery, podcast kind of thing we can say is
when love is blind. Could the law
of your life. Try to kill you
not once but twice. What do you think there
well. We know this is something that does happen absolutely so, with that one
we talk about tonight time
talking about a case out of the uk.
Actually in ITALY,
in case that cop many people
answer mine included because of the particulars of the
As so often we say the husband did it, the boyfriend did it, but man in this case is like what did he do?
When we get into the details, they're pretty alarming, but man it goes to show it doesn't matter where you live. There is always some time
bull individual, who has now
thing, but a self serving greeting
nature, and they don't
air who they run over to take care.
we're talking about a married couple there, the sailors emil
and Victoria and
They live in amesbury, wilt, sure, uk its
in between bristol and london kind of a little south,
if you're from there, you know exactly what we're talking about, if you're, not from their just go west of one
victoria was raised in
addington, that's east of edinburgh
and she attended the edinburgh academy pretty nice,
school costs. Thirty three thousand a year
She lost her mother and ninety ninety two, but the one thing
that everyone you about Victoria,
that she had a lover parachuting. She
done this, since she was sixteen years old and by twenty fifteen.
More than twenty six hundred jobs and what
an accelerated freefall instructor. Now it's because of her career that she met
meal emil ciliary had injured himself. We think he had some sort of
knee injury, he needed rehabbing, and so he went for physical therapy
and that's when he met Victoria there
both in the military. She had joined the royal army medical corps that
she trained, as is physiotherapy officer that was in
Eighteen, ninety eight she became a cow,
captain and served at a field hospital in Kosovo. She was married before
thousand, for she had married a man by the name of Liam Fitzgerald finch. He was a captain,
they weren't together very much. She
leaving him because he was unfaithful
she later met and in may
emile cilliers. They got
in his home country of south Africa september.
two thousand eleven that.
kids together, the youngest
was only weeks old when this incident occurs that will be discussing. Let's talk about a meal
what he was born in south africa. His parents were
hope. I get their names right, son, his mother and his father stalls
apparently had a very religious household, very religious upbringing,
and attended private school. Now he worked with his father for quite a while
by age. Sixteen he was already. I guess you could
wooing the ladys, and I say that
because his first girlfriend
was nickel in shepard and she was
thirteen years old at the time now,
according to her, he knew exactly what to say and how to say it, and he would very much impressed the ladies
guess that religious household sort of backfired honour his behaviour. Yeah is no telling by hand
having to children with nikkolon one
the daughter and two thousand and then
in two thousand to she became pregnant with a son, a meal then sticker.
around here, believing south africa. For the uk
wanted to work and make some money in the uk, but it's not like
said I'm leaving you good bye. He said I'm
going to the uk cause, I'm gonna go work and just didn't come back
Fathers glad for cigarettes just never come home, so nickel intercourse was true,
figure out what happened to a meal. She got a hold of his mother.
And she was informed that a meal
had married a woman in the uk named carly Taylor wow little surprise
but in two thousand and six nicotine
had been fielding law
questions from her daughter that was her older child, about where her dad was.
She didn't really want to get a whole of amelia work. She probably fellow upset with them or whatever, but she's like
you, get a hold of them, because his daughter wants to know who he is, and so
She reached out to him, and he said: hey you no fun.
you're calling me I'm getting a divorce so tee thy. Well, maybe we can see what happens you know, but a month later,
She thinks that she and a meal are starting to kind of get closer in a meal is away at work, but his phone is still at their place where they were staying.
She answers the phone and it's carly meals, wife,
they have a conversation and carly's like all now we're very much married, and we have two kids he's got to women
is life with kids and he's lying to both of them. This
the first time this has ever half an obviously, but these
two women decides to ban gathering talk to miss
a meal sailors and get this straightened out by it.
Apparently he didn't seem to unnerved by them approaching him and his wrist.
Then was well here. We are which
if he wants me very arrogant
yeah I'll say I don't know what the response from
many of you is, but my thought is:
guy can't get enough of himself here.
care what he did wrong
his eyes. It's basically like I
make a choice and, of course, the way he hooked these women. They very much loved him, because he was the perfect gentleman. Then the way he treats them
after marriage, the way he treats them after the relationship is like dirt and he just expects them to deal with it.
while this very much turned off nicklin and she laughed but carly, she stage
to keep a meal in her life.
Now a meal wasn't really done with nicklin. Yet so he tried reaching out to her, but she wasn't interested
so he moves on and he meets
several more women on dating apps and even
there's escorts and sex workers
in this relationship not staying faithful at all
two thousand and nine emil and carly their relationship
pretty much done with these
as far as the meals concerned. Any he's not been treating Carl,
very well so it looks like them
is in trouble, but it's that year
when emil met victoria at
army, jam and ted worth now
he was very much and to any kind of adrenalin sport. He found out that she was,
skydiver and man he was like,
me all about this. I want to try it she's, helping him with
she sang I'll teach you how to skydive.
so they hit it off.
he and Victoria, like I said they ended up having to children. So out of the three relationships with nick alene carly,
and Victoria? Each of them had two children with a meal, but let's talk about why were
here, just tell why we're doing this episode, because this guy's, obviously all over the place. You can't been him down, but something unbelievable happens
while their planning on a day trip out with the family families gonna,
watch her jump out of an airplane. So the couple
and their kids, which they
the daughter whose three and a little son, who is just weeks old, go to
neither raven airfield for Victoria's jump and the
Victoria understood it meal had a rain
this jump because it sort of like less so
right the recent birth of our second child, but also the relationship.
Been very strange and
a way for him to say. Let's do something for you so
This is on Saturday April. Fourth and
whether isn't great now, it said that, at least in the reports that I've read from and this according to victorian, other people die
emil had really watched the weather
for whatever reason, despite his
supposedly washing the weather. The weather was
good on that April. Fourth and
It is questionable whether she'd be able to do the job now her pair
shoot that she only use was away for inspection, so
husband, a meal had to rent went out after he got the parachute
he then ended up telling his wife, hey
her daughter, ask or the bathroom, so I'm gonna take her, but he took the parachute with him, thus staggered
a typical because the stalls are pretty small. Its take
a child and a parachute into a bathroom is right before a jump
in our just assume that she would be
needing to get set up and check
parachute herself, I mean she's very experienced jumper here, but now he takes it with him. I guess what typically
happens. Is everyone leaves their parachutes in the hangar before they jump, and he said I dont want to leave it unattended there.
Always leave them on attended in the hair for actual safe keeping, but he's deviating from the norm. Right now
Well, the weather wasn't good enough. The cloud
where was very low, so the jump was cancelled, then a meal.
told Victoria, I'm going to put your pair
shoot in your locker, because it'll save you time tomorrow. When you come back in
as against policy by
said that maybe she was just like well. We've had
trouble lately he's trying to
me with this jump and
make everything easy for me. So, let's not start problem here, so they left she returned April. Fifth,
to try the jump again now her husband
home with the kids and
I guess she started to feel like maybe-
He wish she had just stayed home. She just wasn't feeling it maybe,
here, inkling of your spidey sense, going off, saying: something's, not right, but there she is
weather is still not great, so
instead of doing the regular jump, they do what's called a hop and pop, which is a four thousand foot jump which is much lower than a regular jump gathered. Paul
There shoot pretty much right after they get out of that plane.
He had messaged her husband said
So maybe I should just be at home, but
had said now. This
something loved to do. You really should do this. You know it
and so she agreed at four-
twenty seven in the afternoon victoria jumped out of that plane. Now before she jumped
She had apparently high five people on was trying to get the mood
she jumped something happened now obvious
if you're trained or even, if you're, an instructor.
You know she was very much.
instructor. He was highly trained and she actually trained to save
other people who had catastrophic parachute failures that was her job. She was top of the line
shoot jumper? We can't under sell that enough, when
main shoot had a problem. She knew just what to do. She cut the lines,
because it was all tangled up. She wasn't
If ever deploy her main shoots ass, she went to the reserve, but that too failed. Now when she jumped there was a group of them jumping
and there were going impairs so the guidance
was jumping with saw all of her failures happening in the sky
as she was struggling with her shoot by the time
he got down to her reserve shoot which wooden deploy correctly either he's like she's dead. This will be the first casualty with
add, and there were a very tight knit group and he was
really crying on his way down, because he knew that they lost somebody
and he said he could see her going in and out of consciousness as she plummeted passed him justin. She fell four thousand feet to the ground and the ground that she hit was a freshly ploughed field,
Wait what happened happen mean they say that you're not going to survive a jump out of a plain. Meanwhile, I've actually started another
Podcast called deadly misadventures. Where I talk about people
a fallen out of aeroplanes and lived well? This was
relatively low height, and she-
had a relatively soft landing and when she hit the ground broke, her pelvis broke most of her ribs
She sustained serious leg,
spine injuries and the collapsed lung, her partner who had jumped with her was
let's just say, astonished that she had survived a four thousand foot jump out of a plane. Now this is a tight knit group
parachute club? They are all very highly trained. So when something like this happens,.
It doesn't take long for them to figure out what the failure was, because one
The chances of a failure like this are one in a million and too
They don't want it to ever happen again, so he
looking at her parachute
immediately notices that there wives,
in cords that are just crossed. He sees
at their our lines that have been cut, and these are not free
line Caesar cut, like somebody took a night,
for paris, scissors and cut them and he's thinking. This was intentional.
so he tells the rest of the group
They immediately call the police because they're freaking out yeah, they call the police the very next day
there is a little bit of a delay since
because they really wanted to make sure they weren't just calling
got instinct, they really want to make sure they knew that they needed to call the police. The police got the parachute,
that they create used and they sent it to the british parachute association for
were testing now there
obvious signs of tampering right away. The other thing that really stood out, though, was that this is
something that happens,
you don't have your main anger reserve fail like this. That's like
in a billion also
and this is really interesting- I think, because from about april tenth on the police start getting calls from people who knew Victoria and their cause
in saying here
something I know that you should know your stuff about her husband,
our comments she had made so on
for so it's almost like, without even asking for the public's help
public's already there for them now, the police are wanting to talk
victoria course, she's in the hospital major injuries like she has, and they start questioning her saying. Is there
thing happening between you and your husband that we need to know about. It appears that he had tampered with your parachute
she says something that really
freaks. The investigators out she says. Well, we did have a
gas line leak a week before
so happened why that sort of out of the blue, but this
re emphasize is why the
Investigators are coming after her husband, so the police go
to her house and they look at the pipes and its
obvious that one of them has been loosened with a pair of
They call more groups over there and the uk, but we call vice groups here in the states.
And they leave marks on the pipe now they have kids in the house.
And there is no reason for
a homeowner essentially to mess with a gas line.
In all my years on this planet erin, I have not mess with the gas line. I barely mess with plumbing. So what's a meal doing with the gas line
yeah I mean you could say what how do we know it's a meal. They found his blood on the pipe. Now I guess he had cut his hand while loosening the pipe on the vice grips and
what was on the vice grips and the pipe. So yeah we know it was him.
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calm last? Why code jen? Why
we'll twenty eighth, a meal was brought.
For questioning and told
he was being arrested for the attempted murder of his wife. Now they said he was
who was a cucumber
and that he was just said that, when the arrest
was being made that he was being arrested in front of his subordinates, because
is being arrested at work. He didn't even flinch because
This is a guy who thinks he's. Smart,
and better than everyone else in the room
was about a month after Victoria's, near fatal jump that
The british parachute association delivered their report. Pulse
the senior investigating officer said
evidence showed signs of tempering, so they could see the
see the parachute was tamper with, and that
main parachute lines have been wrapped around the parachute, so it couldn't inflate properly,
and the reserve chute, which is what they call
sk you pursue their tippit.
Four lines attaching to the shoe Pack- and this
links or the soft links that attach
his lines from the parachute to the harness. Two of them were removed
So there was no way this thing could work, and I read that heating and half there if we assume it is
point that her husband had done this. You wouldn't
after a move to wear them, you could remove one and it would follow the whole thing up.
now. They also said that they found records because parachutes have to be inspected every so often over the lifetime.
His parachute there were about ten different inspectors and
they make sure that everything is in order. So they found
the last person to inspect the shoe was Helen Wesley. He added
did this issue about two months before the incident over there
to a meal. He said Ellen wesley.
Yeah. He might have been having an affair with my wife and
he might actually be our sons actual father.
So Alan sabotaged a shoot, a rental parachute two months before the insight,
no one else use that shoot, and it just
happened to fall in the hands of yeah. Ok, I'm just
chances of that are astronomical.
but what we do know is a meal handled the shoot before the job.
The chief parachuting instructor at another even mark by
voted. A lot of time to this investing
None of them had any parachuting experience or any knowledge about parachutes. So he took them step by step through everything
because it would aid in their investigation. What are they looking for? How do we know this is sabotage? How do we know who would have had
the means and the opportunity, and so there,
Compiling all this information, with his help
during a meals first interview, which last
about six hours, they say he was,
asked about his marriage with victoria, and let me tell you something:
The minute he starts talking, it's like he doesn't want to obscure the stuff that he's been up to four the most
part because when they ask about the status of his marriage
guys go always go, it's gone
my wife, not him now
guy he said, is not a marriage. I would want to be in any more. I can't see my
of being in the marriage in ten or fifteen years time,
and then he goes on to talk about sex
just goes on and on and on about his sex drive to the point. Where
almost creepy. That's all he thinks about that.
Only thing on his mind,
he's trying to show off to other people like, but
find out that during this time,
as a girlfriend that he's with me
he's been in a relationship with her for a while. I need
claims that victorious
sex drive is not up to par and they barely have sex more than twice a week,
So therefore he has to have a girlfriend on the side. They start going through his text. Messages
They find that not only does he have a girlfriend on the side, but he's seeing escorts on top of that.
They also find out that he had been to a swingers club. That has a glory hole in it,
If you don't know what that is, you should google it when you're not at work, but at this
here's club. He asked
so you got aggressive with another female patron and was kicked out now wow. It takes a lot of talent to get kicked out of.
Swingers club I mean I've been kicked out of a toys. Are us once and I took some town, but this guy is just an area,
jerk to everyone around him and he uses people and they have this whole plethora of text messages.
When all of these people, even when his wife's in the hospital being treated for
major injuries he's texting with his girlfriend. He's too
thing with all these other women with
the care in the world for his wife, not only that, but he attacked
really brought some insurance documents to the hospital for that.
actors. Design. Nice
and he gets paid out with some insurance money right. Well,
listen talk about how you get paid for each broken bones things like that, but
since he was under arrest. He had to make bail
which they allowed him to do under the condition that he couldn't return to the home that he and Victoria had with their kids,
Oh he get some money to cover living expenses and
apparently takes that money and immediately heads out and buys a new cell phone and a gaming council. I think it was a play station so now
the money goes to victoria
and he's just using it for videogame councils but vic,
warrior as she's recovering at the hospital is upset because she's being told,
about what's going on and she saying no, no, no. I can't
this without a meal, our kids need him. I need him, there's stuff
has to be done. I mean who's, gonna watch the kids
and so of course she has family who are saying: don't worry about a meal. We can take care of the kids prepare
actually head down to help with the kids
cheese being told about the
irrigation and about what they find about steph.
and that it seems like he was getting ready to leave her to be with Stephanie and they
even denied being the father of their son, so we
they is, she upset not really is really weird.
This state of mind is such that she's. Like wait a minute she starting to connect,
and she says this is
she tells them about the gas pipe.
That it occurred on marks thirtieth. Think about it.
first time she was supposed to parachute was on the fourth of April. To this
just days before and of course, and we talk by the pipes were taken, there
Two gated analyzed september emil is brought in for a second interview. Now, in the meantime course, his wife is phillips,
she's not wanting him arrested. She doesn't want him in prison or anything she just.
we're about. What's gonna happen with our kids
how she's gonna make it and so
There is a second interview with a meal he said
laying out his whole
you could say relationship with Stephanie and they
expect him to say yeah, I'm blind and make a new relationship here with Stephanie
but now he sang air were not really together anymore.
And this is the thing is they ask
Any normal person who is just a ten-
the two murder, their wife. You would expect them to. I don't know deflect whatever
but you know they'll, ask em like oh: did you work on the pipe and he's like I don't remember like? Did you use
his vice groups on it, or did you use these more groups on its knees? Like I just told you, I don't remember
just very nonchalant, but then he'll put himself in situations where like well did you.
Deal with her parachute. I handled it. So it's this weird cat and mouse of he's being fairly honest, yet not pudding
self in any sort of situation that would actually make it look like
Smoking gun, like he's guilty, there's a book out there,
spy. The lie were talks about people's
options when line has every human has their own tells and where very similar disguise.
Interviews with police wow. You can just sit there and break it
down line by line it
incredible to see such
narcissism at play police obtained,
who years worth of messages between a meal and Stephanie that were
changed over. What's up,
Let's just say they don't really buy, that they were no longer together. There would be a
interview and that occurred before.
The end of twenty fifteen? They
asked emil. When was the last time you use your pliers and, of course that's what
denied using them or not remembering when using them by this point
I already had all the information, the pipe they knew about the blood they knew that them
eggs were definitely made by them.
perhaps that he used they were found.
Utility room. But this is the problem,
the interview is they're trying to
catch him why any
and give them enough information for them to be. Like ah see you, you said this, but we we knew that you had use them because your blood was he just as I remember or yeah handled it, but I didn't do that, so they can't,
leverage on him, an ally, but at the same time they're getting leverage on him in just a sense that he looks guilty as hell.
They do get leverage because of his relationship
and his relationship with Stephanie galler is
really thinking at this point, aside from its hampering of ie or apparent tampering
gas line because
He sang yeah we're not really together anymore, but he had sent tax to her like from April.
Onward, I can do random and spontaneous now
given that his wife almost died in early April. What does that say? Because that way?
Their looks like he's saying, hey from April on
What you gonna do whenever you want to do it on their I'm freak
why in the hospital or dead yeah? Maybe
at that point, when he saying this, it was previously that time so it
he sang from
month onward. I can do
he actually was
doing: internet searches for a wet nurse prior to the jump for other child.
Why would you need a wet nurse if Mommy's around away
normally. I dont care about people's search history that much normally adam
care about their extramarital
There's that much. I know they're all factors here. I know
I'll give motive but wow,
the situation? Is
every single thing this guy did is screaming. I planned this now
course. They ask him hey what
this message you sent to Stephanie about you and be free from April onward, and he goes
I don't know why. I said that it probably isn't important. So yeah he's cools a cucumber, but
police are looking at him. Like yeah. We have all this stuff, that's line
up at least you could say it.
Substantially leading up to you,
We set this up. You set your wife up to die, so it seems
june of twenty. Sixteen, when the crown
Prosecution service agreed that police had
of evidence to charge a meal with two counts of attempted murder and one count of reckless endangerment.
A meal said I do any of this stuff.
one interesting note, though their headed
trial, but one
lead investigators, name Mattie Hannah said that she thought the eyes were against them, getting a conviction, because
as there was in her mind, may be enough, sir,
what evidence showing that a meal had tamper with the pipe or the parachute. So
you're, leaving it up to the jury, too
follow your lead and valued
on that path of all the circumstantial evidence, but they don't have video proof,
so she put the eyes like it. Seventy thirty against us now it's the black of direct evidence but
all circumstantial and when you take in the totality of his
extramarital affairs. His please,
in our views, he's the one,
person to mess with parachute,
Obviously, was the last person to mess with the gas pipe, they think they got enough and then
one week into the trial they find out that he has a bunch of debt, also like
thirty thousand dollars worth almost and he was going to get a life insurance pay out of a hundred and twenty thousand. Then you find out
that he was borrowing money from Victoria and never paying it back. He had really poor spending habits,
he needed everything brand new criminal crop. All the new toys
because it wasn't his money. He was spending was other people's money and why not right, but he was also spending money on his girlfriend exactly when you have
multiple women in your life. That's gonna be a costly. So now we have
not only was he unhappy in his marriage, but we have
life insurance pay out. So we have multiple motives here for murder. The process
you can really wanted to drive this home. Hey
had the motive. He had the opportunity
we're gonna show how he did it. They took the jurors the twelve,
yours out, another even airfield and they walk through through all this stuff
parachute and how he would have tampered with it,
and how they know this was done on purpose.
wasn't some sort of accident or some fluke, there's no free
edges to the lines there. Clean cuts
she was checked and reach act and packed, and then all of a sudden
lines are just wrapped around the main shoot in the reserve. She's been cut it so obvious that this was intentional, and
Prosecution was starting to feel pretty good about their case, because
had the money motive and then Victoria had told them things that really made a pie.
Sport. It gave a meal enough time to tamper with things she said that when he took their daughter to the bathroom that he was
for about ten minutes. That's plenty of time to tamper with the parachute
So they brought her on as their star witness they ve got the person who was the intended victim on the stand and can give tee
alimony- because not only was she the intended victim
but she also knows parachutes
she knows all about jumping she was an instructor. So
Is there a moment, a snow? They get her.
The stand, but then
see I see changes her mind, she says that
She exaggerated the timeframe that he had the parachute in the bathroom because
he was upset said it was only mere moments, as opposed to ten minutes
she went on to say that she,
or exaggerated about deep
shoot the main shoot and how it was not as bad as she made it out to be and that she was kicking herself for cutting away a perfectly fine shoot.
although the evidence is clearly to the contrary, because the shoot did not deploy because it was wrapped in the lines so when she cut it away in action.
fell to the ground in the same configuration that it was in so
She can say that she cut away a perfectly fine shoot, but the evidence to the contrary.
and she doesn't really have much of an explanation for the reserve- shoot besides well stuff happens,
and then, when they get around you asking her about the gas line in the house. She says that I must have bombed at her eye. I might have listened it myself. It wasn't him.
wow that's what this came down to it couldn't have been a meal is probably me so even
Prosecution was doing their best
the jury had to consider what victorious that on stand, and they
liberated for about four days. They couldn't decide
Our verdict will this whole case was very pivotal on her testimony to bring it altogether
and when she turned on the prosecution and wasn't willing to
go along with the narrative,
the jurors or like maybe sheet
it to herself. Can we really prove that he did
beyond reasonable doubt so
hung jury right november, twenty third
two thousand seventeen a meal walked out of court, but this
wasn't a case that ended in a not guilty and it didn't end.
guilty that man they can take
other stab. At this
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on April eleven twenty eighteen, a meal was brought back to port. This time you talk about character, stuff, they ve unleash all of it.
part of the operation wainwright, that's what they call the
investigation into emile cilliers, they discovered about
Fifty thousand messages that went to and from a meal man
they created all these timelines, showing all
the different relationships. City was in including maintaining
sexual contact with his former wife carly, the escorts you name it. Just the gloves were off
this point and they're going to character, assassinate him because they thought that in the first,
What we have is the of the intended victim, so we don't have to go through all this.
was, it really character assassination, because I feel like that might be a bit rough. I mean
What they're trying to show here, as this is a guy who was
are concerned about his wife, in fact very much
the opposite, he was
intending to harm her, and they could show that
everything he was doing was against her, so they went through
all of the finances they went through the relationships. This was it
I who was spinning out of control really and so with his internet,
searches, his messages,
finding that just days before, Victoria's jump,
He was searching like you said, for a wet nurse and that's because each
fact: it his wife not be around to care for their young sun, and they also found that Victoria had removed him from
will get in december of twenty fourteen. She,
removed her husband from her will because
you ve been having a lot of money issues and it was
because of a meal. He had maxed out
credit cars he had borrowed about twenty thousand pounds from his wife and
pay. Much of it back and continued
to make up stories about why he couldn't pay her back
he kept saying one having trouble with the people who are helping me with my finances and so
its holding up the money. I think really.
you're looking at the time line of why he
took action when he did it's, that desk,
we're twenty fourteen time where these
see it coming to a head, and it's that
stress of my wife's, come
after me, she wants
Why the money keeps
disappearing. They shouldn't be in the
actual straits that they were in and he had
promises to her like. Oh I'm, not gonna, take loans out a mock. I do this in that, but he did exactly that
you think all these lies would have screwed up his relationship it
spinal that his wife's stuck with him.
for the relationships in. Oh there was
clean shepherd. His first girlfriend who had two children with
She knew very much about how he could almost brainwash people, so
anyway. You take all the forensic information and is
if Victoria out of it, because you can't have her on the stand talking about her husband and saying it wasn't him it couldn't have been had to be me- I must have screwed this up. I must have done that. You can't have her
on the stand so now,
I have to say we're going to let the forensics talk we're going to let our
best negation speak and that's what they did. What difference it makes
when you don't have someone sabotaging their own case? Let's take a moment to talk about that because,
you know it's one thing to say: why would she do that
you know, when you're in a relationship and essay
if you're, in an abusive relationship where someone is manipulating you
Can you really see the truth exactly she has children.
She needs help raising them. She thinks season
Ok, guy all he's
capable of is not paying her back for some money but murder. Oh, never!
yeah you cheat dummy bet he wouldn't harm me. You wouldn't do that. He wouldn't kill me
so it just doesn't make sense to me it's further proof of
the results of his labour. He worked hard at manipulating his wife and
other women in his life. So when it came
to it. She couldn't just
its gears even after
that it happened.
This trial lasted six weeks long time the jury took three days to deliberate,
and they found him guilty on two counts of attempted murder and one count of reckless endangerment guilty on all counts,
He was given a life sentence with minimum of eighteen years before he could be paroled
I think that's a thirty six year sentence, isn't it yeah over there? It is.
That's a lot of time and I would say
You know, even though no one died, this is
credible, I mean your reason. His wife didn't die was lock in. This might be the first case that we ve, covered by murder. Kind of gays were no,
died. We ve done missing persons, we ve done mysteries and stuff, but we always have a murder of it
so this is sort of an anomaly for us to cover a case like this and its
Firstly, an anomaly for her to have lived through to it,
on her life and yet still not want to accept the fact,
This is something that I just want to pause on for a minute, because I know
people out there screaming at their speakers, ike avi
He tried to kill you and I,
member that the documentary of abducted and plain sire, when just screaming at the parents, like you, freaking, idiots
don't you know better here we have it. People can be manipulated. People can be
brainwashed lied to it happens every day and is
frustrated as I am with her
initial response and reaction to this attempt on her life yeah. Well, they got justice later with this second trial.
Without her. Not everyone believes that he's guilty here.
as his parents and his younger brother
forcing him and saying he wouldn't do this. They have it wrong,
You can say he wouldn't do this, but prove he didn't, there's a difference there and its obvious. He did it, regardless of if he could
done this year. They go on about how he was raised. The christian faith in the family has a guy got, kicked out of a place with glory hole in it. So I dont care about his christian a bringing here. Yet this is what they keep referring to and they're saying it couldn't be him and it's not
just his family after this verdict.
Victoria was asked and she has not made a lot of statements. She's been pretty guarded, but after this
and she spoke to the guardian
a major news media out there in the uk said have to go, I suppose, with the verdict. It's almost like peer pressure to conform,
my family friends, everyone seems to think they know more than I do. They see different evidence to me. He'd been unfaithful. He had issues with money.
But that is not attempted murder.
I'm her angry. That can I see him is capable of murder. No! So once again
don't think about in the forensic evidence, don't think about the parachuting
bring that they know happened, they
He knew how to mess with the parachute because he worked for quite a while as a parachute packer
he didn't finish his training with the reserve shoots, but he knew
exactly how to mess with these things. This is the power.
She has even more training than he does as far as
things that can go wrong while parachuting and she won't accept the facts and the evidence that are in her face
denial and just a river in Egypt. You know
I dont even know there would be denial, because I think this is just the man
population holding on all the work that he had put in
two manipulating her
still there, as I was going, and so she can't get around it
and they say that you have to have a separation between the two for a while, but
or if there is any chance, usually of so
coming to their senses as it were, or seen. Clearly, yes,
Clearly, what happened here was that
activity that you need, but you can't find
neither blinders on north
to a meal. Now we could talk.
On and on about how you know she should have been able to see this new. I think about
the gas sign in sudan,
you know he is obviously hoping that something devastating would ve happened. Do that house? Well what about the kids goods were there?
ruptured gas lines don't discriminate between adults and children.
everyone in the house would have died. But again, oh, I must have bumped it. I must have
loosened it myself and not remembered that
the power of abuse and manipulation. In october of twenty
teen victoria failures went perishing again for the first time now she
the tandem jump where she was strapped to an instructor didn't jump on her own.
Obviously this is something that would have been
pretty intense. I love the fact that she went for another jump. She said. If I didn't jump, I couldn't fall. She did
jump at the london parachute school, airfield and oxfordshire, uk and she
done it for charity. The fund for going to the
sure air ambulance. This is the group that,
save her life today that she had the ground and she said that
She had considered jumping many times, but she needed a push
and so when she thought about the charity and action
It help raise money for this group for the welsh her
ambulance that made up her
for she was ready. Justin
you washed a documentary called the pair,
shoot murder plot a journey.
as Fiona Bruce really.
Oh then too, I guess you could say the pretty
pillars of this case, it's on em.
Prime, what did you think of it? It's very
well done it's about forty five. Fifty minutes long, you get to see snippets of his interviews. You get to see interviews with
but I knew him family and friends, and I realize it
memories can be very biased, but I think they stay true to the facts and this one, I'm still just
ah of how he was able
you get away with this lifestyle as long as he did even taking out the attempted? Murder plots just being just such a arrogant jerk, but
turning on the charisma to hook, people in and then I don't see any red flag.
Because he's such a nice guy and then you got him. He would take us,
friends, Stephanie galler to the mess hall,
and everyone there was like. Oh, he must not be with his wife anymore, he's brazen yeah, just brazen now
the last time. Anybody knew any comment
korea, sellers. She was saying that she wasn't planning to divorce her husband
couldn't believe that he had ever tried to kill her? She could accept it, but in April twenty twenty,
There is a new book coming out, titled falling
I had a loving husband, then he tried to kill me a true story writ
I victoria sellers.
the title and the little blue.
I read, maybe she has some something she's going to get off my chest and I think it could be a very interesting read so afraid of you wanting
find out where she stands today. That might be where to go absolutely, and I think that a time and distance might have helped her secret
early, that she was absolutely a victim in this situation and that's why
We shouldn't judge her. We can say
or what about this? What about that? But she was very much.
The victim in this case, just because
was arrested just because he was tried and convicted
didn't mean that everything from now on I was-
still his responsibility, because
he spent a long time manipulating Victoria
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Transcript generated on 2022-07-09.