This episode was made in partnership with and sponsored by NBC. Aaron and Justin discuss NBC’s new limited series, The Thing About Pam from a live stage in Hollywood. The series stars two-time Academy Award winner Renée Zellweger, Judy Greer, and Josh Duhamel and is based on the riveting story of one of the most compelling true crime sagas ever told on Dateline. You’ll hear their take on the Pamela Hupp case and how the story was brought to life for television.
This is an unofficial transcript meant for reference. Accuracy is not guaranteed.
From Wondery as everybody doing tonight, tonight's episodes going to be a little different errand and I attended a live screening for embassies. The thing about PAM, which permitted on March Eighth, we highly
recommend series, it stars, Renee, so eager Josh Demo and Judy Greer every one at that what got a sneak peek of the first two episodes and and I did a show on stage- in front of a live audience, something we don't do very often being that we are in front of a live audience. The dynamics a little different, but it was- for this Might be one of the only times you hear us live on our feet, so I hope you enjoy it as much as we enjoyed doing it. Please welcome back to the stage the hosts of the generation. Why podcast Justin Evans and Aaron Hable the? Why did you guys enjoy that? I really enjoyed it out, Arizona,
the song backstage about how seeing something on a big screen is a little bit different than when you see it. You know on your computer or your tv. I think I do What did you think Aaron with the well to start where, if you're one of those people on I'm not thinking when here is, was doing it? But if you complaining about having to see the ad on your phone when you see it on the big screen, it really does make a difference and I think all of the, front things about a hit better like the little humour mom. I think, they're important, because when you cover a case like this, it can get pretty depressing and you see the damage that happens to a family after someone's been murdered, especially so, when you get little comedic beats. I think there are important because they lift you up so typically Aaron and I are recording remotely I'm in my house sitting in my bedroom. Just talking to microphone and Aaron sitting in the comfort of his own home,
we don't do this live. So this is a little bit different for us to attempt here, but it's been an interesting weekend because I almost didn't make it to this event because my initial flight, I won't bore you with a big flight travel story, but my initial flight was delayed over and over and over again to the point where I wasn't going to hit my connector and then I booked another flight and on that fly. As soon as we got on the plane, they said TAT. His plans messed up what you gotta get off and it couldn't get the engines to turn over because the in flight, Rapporteur, the Black Box, the thing it is not a lack of his it's actually orange or red you'd never find out. If it was really black apparently, all of the airplane systems and sensors are routed through this box and it was giving an error. and so they were trying
to fix that and they didn t get are going to fix it. So I was gonna, be stock by Tom Day just they found work around, they just unplugged the Black Box and they got the plane started, and I so, if my plane crashes on the way here, no one's gonna know why cause? How can a record any of the data on the plane when it crashes got it? That's cool so was this happy that I got here and unable to do the show with Aaron so yeah, don't let him fool you. I mean it whenever We're doing you know, recording or something, and something goes wrong, and sometimes that happens he's the guy. with the solution, he knows how to turn something that could have been a toy minute vs go. If I was in charge turns into a three minutes solution, he would have unplug that You got the planned going anyway. Events in but yeah we covered this case, what five years ago. If, if any
you don't know, we started our podcast in twenty twelve. We were technically the second true crime podcast in existence. And when it wasn't cool yeah. I wasn't cool back then, and it's funny because you know we it's just Aaron and I talk about cases and then meet somebody go. You replied chasm like add like. What's it about I'll, say wards for an errand- and I we talk about murder cases, do like oh another nerve to crime, part ass or two friends talk about murder. That's great! You know you're you're doing a wonderful favour to society, I guess, but when we I this case I was so angry when we talked about it. because of the way it plays out and for some of you that don't know what happens after this episode we're going to go into a few of those details and you're going to understand that this was a disaster from the get go but yeah
I like what were your initial thoughts when we first covered at Aaron oh, since we have been doing the podcast for a number of years, we always like to search out those cases where we are asked sing. How did it get so screwed up? How didn't they know the truth from early on, because there's always a piece of evidence. In this case you had a receipt, the receipt should have shown them and all witnesses. You had five witnesses for game night and you can say? Well he has friends the wife or him, but you have evidence that at least puts into question that he did it. But then, at people who just run roughshod over that and say I know the truth. I know statistics right now but see when you How to do a case like this. That has so many twists and turns and as I like to say skeletons in the closet, you just Your head you're, like this, isn't a in account this the real story, a real case, yeah and I know we're in california- many of you will say.
It happened in Missouri, where we're from. Yeah and Missouri is called the show me state and I think it's a stupid term, but what I live by show me. The hard evidence show me the evidence that makes this person look innocent or guilty. I don't want and you I don't want anything inferred, I want to know why I want the smoking gun and I want to I want to see the dna, the blood everything that goes there, and so this case. As you can see he had a solid alibi. He was his friend's house multiple people there he had bought dog food and then he had gone to Arby's cause, I know you all. You did Arby's cause you of it, but then all those receipts are. It'll be used against him, they're going say, that you are building your alibi,
we're going around and buying things. Why were you going Arby's and going here going there like you? we're trying to make it look like you were not home. So even when you have a solid alibi, can be used against you and that's where this kind of goes sideways because we we have to about the nine when one call don't we earn rival and of course, as they showed you in this new series, the thing about PAM there is this above its December twenty two thousand and eleven we'll call it Christmas and Betsy was driven home by her friend PAM up her great friend, Bam PAM, who's like oh, no, I'm going to take care of you, you're worn out from chemo, you need, Rest, you don't need all these people around. You that's a thing. She likes to say all the time so It gets her home, but she makes or that she calls her husband mark, and this is PAM's husband to you know. Let him know that
they got there and she's dropping off her friend and then she'll be on her way home, not an alibi yeah and, as you see she's problem, creating an alibi for herself, but its rats, who's gonna, be Oh no you're, the one that looks suspicious here now, what I first heard rush's nine one. One call. yeah- let's just say we all know that he sounded horrible on that call. How could you look, Something like that and think suicide. How could you look at thing where somebody has a knife: sticking out of their neck right, like. I mean what you actually were like? Is the guy kind of slower something like you thought there was something wrong with him. Well, let me put it this way. So, if you're, just looking at something First time and you
just look at the way the detectives treated it. They looked at poor Betsy for on the floor and she had it's nice sticking out of her neck and if if you look she's actually been stabbed many times as well. I think it was about fifty five times the detectives immediately say: wow Croc I'll, tears and a big, acting performance to try and save your save your life, but really is the husband that did it and that's a common thing. You know it's, it's, never a mannequin in the husband did it. Those are things that we know and we know them because statistically they their true but The difference between, depending on statistics for free case in and making that the thrust of your case and ash. Doing the due diligence and going through the evidence, and so when you look at Russ's call he's very he's sobbing and he's saying she killed herself and here's the context Betsy Faria had cancer. It was terminal cancer.
She didn't have a long time left on this earth at that point in time. So when you have you know husband crying and making this call. He went immediately to that we do that in life, we we have pareidolia, we look in the sky and you see objects in the sky, We constantly look for things there patterns and Ross. His pattern was she in his wife had been depressed about this cancer and that's how it When you have depression, you have your ups and your downs for him when he saw his wife on the floor. I thinking that he was looking at her thinking, this is it. She took her own life. I was thinking I'm never find a call. Nine hundred and eleven again by myself, I'm going to go to the neighbor's house and call and have them call because the making sure the neighbor talk and say yeah. This guy Justin just told me to call nine hundred and eleven about something that happened cuz. I read to this nine hundred one call all the time cuz in
all the cases we cover there's so many were people are like. What did you hear the nine hundred and eleven call he sounds totally guilty or while he sounds pretty believable? Well, I've heard We believable calls- and this one of them. This one is very unbelievable, but put myself in that situation. I've looked for my car keys. Fifteen times in their sitting on the kitchen able- and I don't see them. Maybe just wasn't processing what he was seeing there and it's a stressful situation, it's his wife and she's. bleeding all over the place? So this is not something that I would want. Be put into, and I think that I would ask them else to call nine hundred one for me cuz, I would screw that call up horribly. Another thing we should think about here in Brussels. The fence is that often, if you're argue but to say, arguing if you're arguing with your spouse or a friend there are- at times? Are we don't actually listen, we're in
dissipating what they're going to say and we fill that in and I think that, another thing that happened here he immediately went to suicide because that was his fear with his wife. So I think at the investigators did do the right thing and kind of targeting him or looking him first because of his nine one phone call- and I agree with that Now- thing that iran- and I say all the time- is low you're up you if you're being questioned about anything by law enforcement. I mean It's just like: did you see the bank robbers when they drove away and be like yes or no? Maybe, but if there are bringing you to the station say no. I want my lawyer if they're ever interrogating you to say done. I want my lawyer and don't ever take a graph, because no matter, if you pass it or fail it they're going to tell you you failed it does.
Matter- what the outcome was by the The polygraphs are not admissible. There told, bullshit, I would believe in astrology before I would believe in in a polygraph. Okay, I'm a by the way, now someone's going to know a little bit more about you right yeah. So don't Take a polygraph Ashley want to take two polygraphs. I want to take one where I'm lying through my teeth, and I want to take one where I'm telling the truth and see what the outcomes are, just as control to see if it comes out, as I would expect but in this case, as soon as the police officers found out that he had a solid alibi. I think that they should have kept him on tap but then been like. Well. Who was the last person she was with the normal troubleshooting step, too figuring out a crime figuring out a murder, after run,
is arrested. They start build a case against him. His lawyer is trying to get his alibi into court he's trying to get a lot of things brought into court and he's trying to question PAM they're trying to pull her phone records, trying to do all these things and use you can see. That is an work out so well and if you don't no before trial happens Is there's this little legal melee where the defense and prosecution get to say What we're going to argue- and here is the evidence bring forth and then the judge decides like a referee on a football field. Okay, you to do this and then the defense gets to counter it with their own evidence. For their own experts. Yeah things. That'll happen is you'll, have a defense attorney. Who is saying okay? So if it's not my client who did it because that will help us
build a case, but then you might of a judge say who now and the France attorney will say: PAMELA Hupp what we were trying to get phone records. She was the last one to see the victim and that in the jail which, of course, is sitting there, and then you have prosecution, yelling on trial here now and then you know, that's where that kind of malay happens in sometimes it just doesn't work out for their defense and if you can't build a case against someone else. Then all you really have is a fight to do. your client with really all the tools you need cuz, you can't build the whole picture and now one motive that most husbands or spouses have is they take out a life insurance policy and then they murder there why so they can cash in on that yeah. So there's a life. Insurance policy on Betsy and it was supposed to be paid out to Russ for husbands and the family fun on
December twenty second five days before the murder, that life insurance policy was rerouted to PAMELA. Up that. Didn't ring any alarm bells, any red flags, because PAM told investigators, well she told me that she was afraid of her husband and that she didn't have faith that he could raise her children so She wanted me to have the money, so I could give it to her daughters, in that policy was a hundred and fifty thousand dollars in PAMELA took. One hundred thousand of it and put it in a trust for the daughters and for funeral expenses and whatnot, She claims she gave the other fifty thousand dollars donated it to a family in need. but she had a lot of work done.
In that time and this trust was in PAM's name, and there was only you know her of mouth, her verbal agreement that she would help the daughters and pay for the funeral gas. The chief pay for the fear of concern, became a thing because one of the investigators actually told her. You know it be really good for us at trial, if you would go ahead and get that money put into a trust in the daughters names that would look real good, you know, let's just say it- didn't really work out that way: he closed that trust out, took all the money. I didn't give these family, any of it and then acted just you? Don't like she didn't know what they were talking about and she changed her story. She just decision
I didn't, tell them I'd give them any of the money. That's. He said it was my money, so that's not motive for murder, the guest Of course none of that trust or who was getting the help? You know the life insurance policy. Any of that was lead into trial, because the judge said now, PAM Up is not the one on trial. Respirator is I'm all about letting at all, and I want to know every piece of evidence, and I realise there are some things that are inadmissible. That should be let it, but I think that is enough. The last person to be seen with somebody who's been murdered. I think that that's pretty important, but I didn't find it important generation? Why is partnering with embassy for an exclusive podcast up? embassies, new limited series, the thing about PAM Stars, two Time Academy Award winner, Renee Zellweger, Judy Greer, and Josh Duhamel and his bass
the riveting story of one of the most compelling true crime, sagas ever told on Dateline Watch every week as a straightforward murder case take a series of chilling unexpected twists and turns exposing one woman's, manipulative and diabolical scheme. If you couldn't make it to us, peak screening of the series. Don't worry! You can still check out our discussion about the thing about PAM in our exclusive pie, Last episode that was recorded, live you'll, get our take on the case plus the inside scoop on how one of date datelines most compelling true crime sagas was brought to life for television catch. New episodes of the thing about PAM Tuesday is on embassy in check out our special episode about the series. Wherever you listen apart CAS and there was a the question again about the distance they covered that in the thing about PAM about how long it takes to get from that area where he was at all the way back home and it's roughly thirty to forty minutes. Of course, if you're driving at ninety miles an hour, it's a lot faster but
that was a real point of contention there had to try and figure out. Can we complete that driving time to show that Russ is still on the table and eat too shut, cheddar sandwiches, while doing it that's important, so they pretty much throw that all out, they does act like now, you you could have done it. Russ was there. He had to have laughed and and done something else, but they just totally didn't not buy into his alibi- and no matter how much his defense attorney tried it just It didn't land in court. But it's not in open and shut case for them. they know they have problems because they can't prove that r killed her. That's why, you you saw in there. The prosecutor was really hammering that home. You didn't get a confession. Yet, what's going on because the as skaters, made it sound like they were close to getting a confession. They were pretty it was going to happen and then it just never. Did and they looked around the house and they they
the slippers process of letters that were bloody, but they were they look like they were dipped in blood. Well, that that's the thing is as you saw, the investigators were talking about luminol and photographs of the crime scene and The prosecutor says: well those photos didn't now so we don't have any I stand like if somebody's murdered, their wife. You know, it'd give them any pass. But you have to do your due diligence as bond to really nail their ass to the wall, because. these things are going to come back and they're going to come back hard but during this first trial. This all goes in what slippers the smears that all goes in and that's what the jury hears. That's all they know
so how do you think they found Russ for in that first trial? anyone yell it out he got sentenced to life right. The thing is he was just like you said: what were they supposed to I this, as I mean you know, if that's how it is. If you can just paint someone with a brush that way and make them look guilty, then that's what you're going to get most likely. so that's really just a foregone conclusion, but luckily some times our system works right and other people. Take a look who can say I wait a minute. What did you really prove here? and what other evidence did we leave out? That really shows us what happened now that trust that was closed out just I think it was days later like she made it and then closed it immediately. That comes back to bite. Pam because daughters. There turn around and sue her civil suit saying? No, that's our money. You know that
and fair. What happened there and is going to have to go and to go. Make Bateman and in civil suits. You get to question for days, you're, not just on a stand, the trial they get to really hammer things home and I love this Video that I saw and PAM is being questioned by it, the daughters lawyers and he comes and he's just like. What's your name and she's like what what's your name just like PAM Hop and you we're that bought and she's like what a just being very combative and abrasive within three or four questions lawyer turns to the judge and says can I treat her as a hostile witness it? If that and in your and trial. That means this attorney is going to lay into you and he hadn't even started questioning her about the trust yet
and she's already being questioned as a hostile witness during this civil suit, which I found telling myself you make it sound, like the daughters did well because of this little civil suit the daughters only did well in the sense that we get PAM on record, Answering questions that totally contradict what she said before and everything all the statements she gave to the police initially are now you know like. Oh, I was helping her out blah blah blah and I was going to take care of the daughters now she's saying that never happened so this civil case. Well, the daughter lose because they were able to find a note arise document. Transferring that true search, the life insurance policy from Russ to pan
and that's all they needed was this piece of paper with the notary on it, but how piece of paper got. You know signed and notarized is a little shifty, because it's like they went to a local library, and there wasn't a lot of background on that. Nobody knew about it. so how they back shut up is the letter that they keep referring to, which is, Betsy allegedly wrote about Russ wanting to play this game of the pillow, put the pillow over her face, and that's not, That's what they have I want so. Therefore there they take that and they well, she must have notarized this document to transfer the life insurance policy and one It was transfer, then legally PAMELA can do whatever she wants. With that money. after all, she's made varying statements that you know was for the
I. It wasn't for the daughters yeah. There are all these different things that were said, but PAM was known to change her story even in the same twenty minutes. And it's just funny you think, tell him truth will set you free overtime. Sometimes it takes a long time symptom. To take several years, because This case of PAMELA verses, Respiration Russ was telling the same story, but not PAMELA up She would change her story over His car wasn't there, but then it was where the lights on. You know lots of stories there and she would keep changing her stories but see this is that we also upset over the years, is, if you have it, prosecutor debts against somebody you could show. video of the person not committing the crime, essentially the other person actually committing a crime, and they still deny it there already walked in on their subject and there not going to waver, because it's a sign of weakness or in cam or something instead of just going
Oh well, now we're going to shift gears, that's what we'd like to see in in a world anyway, and he just reference was PAM. Acted like she didn't know anything. She just dropped off her friend, Betsy and then she's hearing about it will then she said, oh well when I dropped her off The car was there. He was home, but she initially said he wasn't home, and be home soon. This is, victory yet investigators and everybody didn't catch on this. and so Russ is found guilty sentenced to life behind bars. Civil cases going on Russ's lawyer is. He leaves that Russia's innocent it. He absolutely believes it to the point where, if Ross gives an interview. Lawyer doesn't have to be present now, let's
put it this way. If you've been accused of a crime, I've talked to wrongfully convicted people. I talked to you probably rightfully convicted people to, but they always want to watch what they say. They always want their lawyer present to be an advisor to say, say this: don't say that don't answer that question his lawyer say whatever you want, because the truth is what will set you free and he wasn't even present any time respirator would give an interview. That's how he believed in his innocence and that's unheard of and started, building this case to file motions to get Russ another trial and that what is where He was able to find a lot of these documents and statements from PAMELA Hupp that contradict what she had said now to get A new trial is almost impossible to get appeal to get any of those things, the judges will shoot them
once the system has you you're kind of screwed, but in the first trial. They weren't allowed to talk about PAMELA as a suspect. They were not. allowed to talk about PAMELA and her try what she did with that trust. Well, his lawyer files with called a Mooney motion and yeah. It's kind of a funny name, but it's When you find new evidence like big Lebowski right new evidence has come to light if he was able to say you, put this and behind bars, but she He had this trust and she drained it. That's motive on her part, and that was not allowed in court and in this case. They didn't investigate PAMELA up, they said. Oh, you can help us. Became a helper. So this motion was granted by a judge, and he does, Listen you trial. That's
when PAM starts talking about? Oh, I knew see very well and I knew about the relationship. I knew about all these things. In fact, Betsy and I were kind of together like girlfriends together forever way, in a relationship and that made rust extremely jealous and that's why he never liked me around. You didn't want us to be hanging out and he wrote that that Why Betsy wrote this letter talking about Russ's behavior now that letter was a document that they found on Betsy's computer, that was in a file and a full sure that just didn't make any sense and their cyber expert said. I don't know how she could have created this and is, the emails people. Why wouldn't She just type this into an email. Why would she create this document? I just look at that and I'm
I'm an I guy and I think well, she didn't have Betsy's log into her email. So she just copied and pasted a document onto but that's my own interpretation, my own opinion, but that's how I would do it if I didn't have once you know like it I'm not criminally minded. I promise but see that's another thing about this case before we go get too much further, obviously, Russ Freer was released he won his retrial and and since then there has been a new prosecutor in town MIKE Wood. I know it's great, isn't it's like it's like things are finally coming back around, you know but takes time. Fortunately, for them they they've. Had the courts. Do the right thing, We have to look at it and say here's what went wrong. You have to do it again and in the best, does the prosecution,
should have been able to convict Ross in the first place. That's really telling but PAMELA wasn't done yet. She went, driving around low income areas and was trying to come up with a plan. and she ended up finding a man who she told him that she was a date line producer. And that she was doing nine one one call reenactments and she wanted to get a sound soundbite from him and she was. Willing to pay him some money. and she lured this and into her vehicle and then what happened next there The man in question was Louis gumption and he had had a horrible accident some years prior, but Louis. He Didn't really understand what was happening and he's not physically.
How to do a whole lot. He was in a terrible car accident. I believe so he couldn't like Ronnie couldn't do much she just so he was a vulnerable person and PAMELA was able to take advantage of this situation. she had actually talk to two people before him. and I the to come back and talk about one of them. When we're done talking about Louis here, he gets in her car she takes him back to her house. And then there is a nine one, one call made from PAMELA and when you dial nine one one by the way before the operator, answers that calls being recorded just say, know so, stop you know, snorting your drugs or whatever would like before you hit dial on there and so there's silence on the line and then the nine hundred one operator picks up and says hello, nine hundred one. What can I do in PAMELA says: hey yeah
there's a guy in my house, and you know this is a big problem and I'm I'm scared and it's just a slight redic- this nine one. One coffee thought Russell nine, when one call is bad, this ones even worse and she's yeah. At this guy and then she's, get out of my house, and then you hear gunshots they send out at to her home They find this man lying on. Section of carpet: that's cut out perfect square of carpet on top of her carpet. And he's lying perfectly on their because you can have his blood ruining your carpet. I don't know how much carpet cleaning costs these days, but that you know and he's been shot multiple times and she's talking about how he I approached her when she drove into her driveway was
asking her for money whatever, and then she, if or whatever, that's what. He likes to say and went inside her house got a gun and he forced his way an and that's when she does nine hundred and eleven call reenactment. She wasn't lying about that. I think that might be the first time she was telling the truth and she shoots this man. Then she tells investigators he yelling at her. give me Russ's money. Take me to the bank and get Russ's money. There was a note in his pocket as well. Oh yeah! What did the knows? It well again it's. for us yeah So I think you can all kind of figure out what she was trying to do there, what she was attempting to do is this man coming after, because Russ has hired him and at the because He also had one hundred dollar bill in his pocket
dollar bills, because if you notice- and it's in the thing about Pam she constantly had. His bills everywhere, they snacks bills, so I find this money in his pocket and they ask PAMELA. Did you give him any money? She's like no. that bill or that hundred dollar bill in his pocket has a serial number on it and she would like to the bank and get withdrawals, and they would give her fresh bills that were sequential order and that serial number on that bill was next one in order of a stack of bills, she had in her home and knew that she was lying and they went after her for the murder of this man. rising right. She got life in prison and that that's not all there is. I mean as you as you watch thing think about PAM You'll see all of the other things that are in her past, and it's I guess
can't be shocking once you start to hear all these stories, the ones you ve already heard what you ve already seen, maybe you won't be shocked, but I mean, play, I think Justin. I will be recovering this. We were still pretty shocked, so a bit about the show, though just then what do you think about some of the actors betrayals, because the one thing that fuck me when I first started watching this is there's a little comedic element that starts off the beginning, showing you personality and, of course, Pam- is being played by Renee Zellweger. She she Jah B. I don't see Renee, not I see PAMELA upset with that said. I should do any good job with that. I I actually didn't know you Josh Duhamel was but in the show I was like he's the attorney, Joel and yeah, I think good job. I think he really encompasses that he tries a joke and I really appreciate it. His betrayal there so and rest for real. Like come
like when you're watching him you're just thinking you're overacting you're, just it up like you look guilty, but that's what it actually look like. In fact, this might look a little bit more believable than what he actually did an interrogation room site. I have to say I would say: oh rollers strength is it's either. You know certain more when's or lines that are deliver, that really drive home. Who these People were so as you watched that. Keep that mind and again, one last recommendation is, if you do like this, let people bought it because I think they really have something here with their thing about. Yet March. Eighth, ten and nine central
Thank you guys so much for coming out. Thank you for coming out. We got a couple questions so we didn't make this tv show, but they chose Keith Morris, Keith Morrison what about PAM Dateline podcast, which this is based off of, and so he was the narrator on the podcast and that's why he's narrator on the show? for them, but I know the answer he's very popular Troy misery it that way, in two thousand eleven December. Twenty seventh was the date that Betsy it was murdered,
and we live in Kansas City Missouri, which is not close to their. the bar bar well lawyer, a cameo right yeah up to us as that stupid girl to a woman hand tried to abduct before she got Louis yeah. I was going to call back that. Thank you for bringing it up real, quick. The story is this one very, very smart because she said that she would get into PAM's vehicle, but she wanted her pull in the driveway and she had a cat. On the front of the house. So with all camera PAM's vehicle pulling up and this woman getting into it, and then, of course, these are to back out, but then this woman was telling her
not going anywhere with you. I've changed my mind. and that woman is now she's been dating respirator for quite a while now so happy saying, I'm handing awesome we're get our right there, so much for coming out I'll, be hanging out for a little bit. Thank you. You just heard the live screening event that Aaron and I attended. We hope you enjoyed it the holster. Is covered in the series. So please check it out generation Y is partnering with NBC for an exclusive podcast embassies, new, limited series, the thing about PAM Stars to Tom Academy Award winner Renee, so utter Judy, Greer, and Josh Duhamel and his bass the riveting story of one of the most compelling true crime, sagas ever told on Dateline Watch every week as a strong
Ford Forward murder case, takes a series of chilling unexpected twists and turns exposing one woman's, manipulative and diabolical scheme. If you couldn't make it to ours, peak screening of the series. Don't worry, you can still check after discussion about the thing about PAM in our exclusive podcast. so that was recorded, live you'll. Get our take on the case plus side. Scoop on how one of Dateline most compelling true cram sagas was brought to life for television catch. The new episode The thing about him, Tuesday, is on embassy in check out our special episode that the series, wherever you listen apart, CAS,
The from wondering, Nikki Boyer host of the new podcast call me curious. Look
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Transcript generated on 2022-04-10.