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twenty fifth for lauderdale florida at the berlin coast itself. I guess it's a bar by a hotel. I don't know I'm not from florida. I think it's by the ritz Carlton yeah, I'm pretty sure it's just at the ritz carlton, it's the rest. front barb, that's at the hotel is gonna. Make you tell me about it. I'm gonna be. There starts at six p m that saturday, and what's it about with this event, about podcast, guys are shown nothing vague might from certain scale, and I and just in from generation why pod candia. I think it would be a good time now, Be fine. So tonight is, I think, a big case crossed the pond Well, we don't call upon so what cover and tonight why, as you know, we ve been covered lot of. U S, cases and it's about time. We

went somewhere else, so the uk yeah and just an eye. For some reason we like to talk about serial killers, one of them who's that was our radar is the Yorkshire ripper? It was over twenty victims, but thirteen of them died and the rest got away, but not without serious injury and his emma would be to attack them with a hammer and then stabbed them to death. With tools like phillips had screwdrivers and stuff pretty brutal right. He would get the jump on them. He would follow them and then attacked them while they weren't looking at him so attack from behind with a hammer and then, as you said, he would stabbed them with a

they're a screwdriver or a knife yeah. I can't imagine, being stabbed with a screwdriver. That just seems horrific. Yes, there are those who say that his crimes were as horrific as some others, but having read through the details of what exactly occurred between this killer and his victims, I think that they're horrific enough yeah this is in the nineteen seventies. Your while the attacks took place in various areas bradford and leads our where much of them took place near for those that are residents of england and no these places well. Just a little reminder, but just then our americans, We don't know the place as well as you do, but we did

up a lot on this case. So I think we'll do. Ok, it was september. Nineteen sixty nine Peter Sutcliffe and his friend trevor bird Saw their driving around and they're looking for prostitutes or st walkers peter tells trevor to stop the car because he needs to get out and he takes off and they were point he was poor. at this one, lady that was walking down the street, but when he gets out, he just says I knew did I need to get out real, quick and he runs off and then comes back and he's breathing heavy like he's been running around and he says the trevor I hit that old, crow and the head, but the stone and my sock now

trevor doesn't quite understand why this is happening. He doesn't quite get what peter was doing, but he doesn't think much about it and I think at this point peter had informed him that he had tried to take another prostitute homer to a flat and he gave her ten pounds and she said she was. She was five, so he wanted change she never delivered on the chain. She ran off with her pimps or her enforcers and never gave him the change so peter sort of insinuated that this off Crow lady was the one that he was shorted by, but it was and we don't even know if that original story really high, happened or not or fats is something he came up with buddy

absolutely hit this one woman in the head. The cop showed up the next day and questioned him, and he said he used his fist, not a stone and sock the woman. She was a prostitute which I guess is illegal and her husband was in prison also, so she didn't want to pursue charges. So, They just gave Peter a stern talking to about this attack this incident and let him go. a little while later a couple weeks later, he was on the side of the road hunch behind some hedges, with a hammer on him and a cop rules up says what he do. In any says. Oh, my hubcap came off my car and I was looking for my hubcap, the cop checks

Now he finds the hammer he finds other tools on him in decides that Peter is going to rob or break into a place and charges some twenty five pounds for going equipped for theft, which a sort of a weird herman. I didn't even know that was against the law but yeah, so he gets charge. Twenty five pounds when set cliff is arrested. He woke lay claim that he hid his knife that he had on him in the bud guard cover of the police van, so he had a weapon autumn, but they didn't catch him with. It according to documents, July, fifth, nineteen, seventy five is the first victim that he attacks,

and her her name's a little hard to pronounce. But it's an rogalski. It's a woman named Anna yeah, so he had approached her a couple times the days prior, but he ended up following her home and she didn't realize it was but he was in a dark and doorway when she walked past him and he said: do you fancy it. and she said not on your life and she tried to run. She was owing to her a strange boyfriends house banging on his door, but he wouldn't answer he wouldn't get up and so Peter ends up grabbing. Her hitting her in the head with a hammer until she falls down and he lifts up her shirt I stabber, when a neighbour that lives near by

out what's going on, what's going on over there and peter fled the scene, so an lives. She gives all the details to the police on this guy, but she doesn't know his name august, fifteenth nineteen. Seventy five, a woman named all of smelt. She was out at a pub peter and trevor we're out drinking and peter with his hatred of women started going off about how this was a prostitute bar and how all the women their prostitutes any point it all olive and said she's, probably a prostitute too, however, wasn't really into it or just went along with it as a night turned down. They all left the bar and peter and trevor were driving

and I guess all of was walking down the street and Peter said I gotta go talk to somebody and ass. He was getting out a car, he pulled something out, the seat and travelled and see what it was Peter was actually driving so trevor sat in his car waiting for him. Peter ran off You didn't run in the direction of olive cotter ran the other way, but apparently I just ran down the block, ran down a parallel street and then cut all of off and ambushed her and when he caught up with her, he hit her in the head several times and then started to slash at her. But then an oncoming car came and he took off, fled, went back to the car

are got in with trevor and they took off. Trevor would later read in the newspaper about the attack on all of that happened in the same part of town that they were in the night before, but he just doesn't put it together. I guess or that's buddy and either he doesn't want to know, or he doesn't want to cause trouble for his buddy yeah. I Kind of thinking. Like you see the you're, the woman you ali recognizer from the pub I don't know just what do you mean it's? If today did the newspaper put out a picture of her. I dont know if they just put out a name or if they put it out of the picture, but if, if there had been a pitcher ever, I couldn't think that trevor would have thought Oh that wasn't. The same person that we saw the bar. He would recognise yeah but again its heads his friend, so

august twenty seventh nineteen, seventy five tracy brown fourteen years old, walking home on old country, road, peters, walking. This is at night yeah. It's like ten! Thirty at night and she's coming home from a friends house. He lives close by he catches. up to her and just kind of place along like oh, we just happened, be walking down the same structure road at the same time, and she just walks along with them in and she doesn't seem really put off by him, but he would take out his hammer and hit her five. Times in the head, and she says that he hit her so hard that he grunted, like Jimmy Connor's serving and tennis. I guess I

Binkie chose a country road, because obviously these first few attacks didn't go well because there are people around. So maybe he thought little bit more desolate you'll be able to get away with it But she hit the ground and he is gonna, go stabber, but a car curls up and he takes off again so even on a country road. There are always people around. During these attacks and just like one of the prior victims, she had have bone removed from her brain because he's he's causing major fracturing of the skull, and you could think of as splinters of the skull are going into the brain it it's a horrifying. these are hours and hours of operation to try and make sure that they can save her. Just in case. It wasn't clear that these attacks were very vicious, yeah

the women have lived in this fourteen year. Old girl lives, but it's not pretty. It's not a happy life for them going through brain surgery. After that they ve been attacked. The only thing that you could say that was salvaged out of this was she was able to give a very good description of the person who attacked her because she observed him as they were walking along yet so they are able to put together a photo fit. It gave them a great idea of what this person probably look. like a photo fit is they have multiple photos of just eyes? Just knows just a mouth and unjust hair, so they it What what what were his eyes and they choose from the best eyes or what was his nose and then they would go through all these noses. It's kind of like when you make sure your avatar

or on a play station or an xbox. You know, you're, just choosing similar features are throwing through the mouse yeah the eyes, and so a lot of these victims, will actually do photo, fits that hard dead on accurate. They are really good descriptions of him unable to to do these. So that's what the photo fit is well on the thing is: is we're going through these attacks chronologically but you'll, keep in mind that some of these attacks were never even attributed to the actual the yorkshire ripper until later, yeah cause right now. None of them have died. So these are just random attacks, just gone through what three or four all these women have lived but what I guess, what I'm trying to get at, though, is there's no collection of these names going to a file saying. Oh, this person was attacking again yeah, so it is

There are still just, as you said, random attacks and even worse, they do start collecting a file this last victim tracy. She was not a prostitute. She was not a street worker. She was a fortune you're a girl, so she won't be linked until much much later as we go through this the police, early on established that the person attacking women is someone who hates prostitutes so that sort of colours the investigation and can exclude certain victims who ought not to have been excluded but should have been. Among the list of victims now at least her earlier on and so october.

thirtieth nineteen. Seventy five wilma mccann. This is his first victim that he will end up murdering he picked her up. It was agreed that they were going to you know she was last year, they were going to go, have sex. They went out to a field and he ends up killing her, and this will establish his emo sort of right. Well, she she was a mother and she had children at the time she had. One of her kids was a five year old boy and when he was notified about his mother, the police told him that his mother had been taken to Heaven. You know she had gone out and she had been drinking and, of course, the killer had been

proposition by her. I guess you could say she actually go a little bit of an attitude. She got a little bit of an attitude and she said bloody hell. Do I have to spell it out, meaning this is what we're here for you and, of course the killer. Wasn't there to have sex with her and he was he's kind of a timid guy when it came to his interactions, and so I think some of these women got a little and patient because he wouldn't

commit to the transaction. Won't. I think also that it appears as though he may have had trouble performing. If you know what I mean and they would get impatient because time is money, yeah and they're only going to get yea so much out of this transaction. So they need him to hurry up and finish there, and you know five ten minutes in and he still can't get going. This is now irritation for them. It's irritating for them. So next one is Emily Jackson? This is on january twentieth, nineteen. Seventy six, I'm not saying all the names of the city's. Now I'm ok, he picked her up on the street.

He says that her perfume was obscene and it made him angry. He acted like his car was broken down and that he needed to look at the engine and he asked her to hold her lighter for light

and when she bent down and pulled out a lighter course, her heads down now he pulls out his hammer and he strikes her attacks or some kind of a part of his ammo on how he would trick these women and then attacked them from behind and as another part of his em out. He would push up her top and her brow and pull down her pants down, and this attack was particularly vicious because he used a what they say as a cross ply philip screwdriver and he stabs her fifty two times in the neck brass lower after men and her back.

now I have heard some people say that he's not a ripper like jack the ripper. But I don't care about semantics here, but to me getting stab with a screwdriver, that's not as non knife, that's ripping through your body, and I think he actually would stabbed them. What the screwdriver hold the screwdriver in their body pull it slightly out stab again said to be multiple stab wounds with only one puncture wound yea, even it tear them up on the inside tat. I know that there is a big one to do about that, but but he leaves some evidence on Emily. He leaves a blueprint on her thigh that are able to document now don't out, if able to tell us what size it is, or everything just from this one thigh print but later on will be able to tie them together,

I don't have a lot of time to sit down to read a book, I'm always on the go going from one festival or made up to another and audible offers mean incredible: selection of audio books cross every genre, although I think I stick to mainly mainly the thrillers and true crime section as an audible member, I can choose one title a month, including the best sellers and new releases audible members get access to a growing selection of audio books, audio originals and podcast their included with your membership. You can listen, all you want and more gets added. Every month Gillian flynn is going, be putting out a new book soon All the news about sharing penny. You might want to go back and give gone girl or listen. Let audible help. discover new ways to laugh, be inspired or be entertained. New members contrived for free for thirty days, visit audible

calm, slash gaeta BP, were text judah, BP, two five hundred five hundred, that's audible, dot, com, slush judah, BP or text gdp to five hundred five hundred to try, audible, free for thirty days or more time, audible, dot, com, slash gdp. They say it appears to be I seven or a size eight, so they take measurements and aid they feel like they have a good idea about the size of the boot. Yes involved. here, first bit of evidence, besides a description of the person

is his shoe size and that he wears boots made ninth nineteen. Seventy six Marcella claxton gets her in his car, takes her off and then hits her in the head with his hammer. Multiple times shattering her skull and then, as usual, car rolls up and he abandons this this attack, but he takes her bloodied body and he throws it over a fence and this this woman's able to drag herself to a phone booth coffee. help while she is calling for help. She sees his car driving by over and over again looking for her trying to find her. She will end up having

almost one hundred stitches in her head and they have to remove skull fragments from her brain. They said that she was not. They said she had a low, I q, but she still was able to give a very good description and detail of the attack and the attacker did. He leave the evidence on her anything of no well. The notable thing here is that he said that he wanted to pay her for sex and she decided she didn't want to because the way she described it was she was off like she wasn't going to be doing that at that time and that she did have to pee. So she would. I have to go pee and that's when he got the jump on her. Okay, that's when her back was turned was when she was urinating behind a tree. I remember that I,

in Richardson February, fifth, nineteen, seventy seven twenty eight years old, she was homeless and I took to the streets some some of these women, I'm sure they were prostitutes, some of 'em, I'm like. Are they just in a destitute situation but they're at the pub? Of course Peter sees her and follows her, while he he pulls over and without even prompting she just gets in his car yeah, she can tell he looked over so when he pulled over and waited She knew that was the sign. You know, c'mon, you can get a ride or you can get in with me and she is down on our luck. The actually interesting thing is that.

where this is occurring at is not far from where the last attack occurred very close and this woman had to go p as well, so they went to find a bathroom, but they were locked, but when they were in the process of doing that has she was crouching. He would pull out his hammer and her and the head after you hit me. had he tore open her jacket and began slashing her with his stanley knife. He her voices and saw car driving away, and he laughed yea herds people in that scared him off. It's like the whole car thing all over again. Yeah he's getting spooked, he doesn't want. He doesn't want to get caught yet and this is something that I just found interesting has even if it's the in seventies or eighties. This is a fairly

populated area that he's working in this people everywhere it just it seems a little. To me that he's trying to get away with these things and is able to get away with these things with so many people around. I would just assume that some people would see him describe him, not just the women that is attacking, but very interesting that he was able to do this, but I guess

because he would attack these women from behind with a hammer, so they didn't have time to call out and scream so just be the next person that would happen along and find them or see him that he had to worry about this attack. Also, it shows that you know because people have said that jack the Ripper would arrange items near the victims. This woman had her items arranged on her and around her in interesting and interesting ways and for people that think he was not a ripper. Let's just say that the wounds to her stomach are so severe that her intestines spilled out of the wounds, so very vicious attack. There is evidence left at the scene which are tyre tracks and they identify the type of tyres they are their india Ottawa retires. There are two:

their tyres, which are completely different brand there's follow up murders, were they find these same tire tracks? Are they realize what tire belongs to the murderer, the attacker and they start filing a whole data is on this, but a database back then was a file cabinet in microsoft. Access was a secretary, so now real efficient, but they did through some manpower added and they have multiple homicides, so their spread a little thin. Well, I think it's it's about a hundred thousand vehicles that are in question, here: yeah you can imagine that that would take a lot of work is Alec nowadays, like you said that- try and look this up in a computer filter out things and all that, but this is a time consuming process that they later abandon so next one is patricia

occasion in this is April. Twenty third nineteen. Seventy seven eleven p m in bradford and she's thirty, two years old. She is a prostitute, yet she's getting drunk so she's actually kicked out of the play she's doing king at by the manager and she's being on the roofs of parked cars and shouting absurdities yelling at the bar owner and that's when Peter Rosa and again she doesn't need any prompting show she'll get in the vehicle she gets the car, and he takes her back to her flat right as they walk in. He immediately pulls out his hammer hits or four times in the head, and she fall down under the bed and he pulls down her pants and exposed in and pulls up her shirt. He ad

we as a claw hammer yeah he bees now hitting or with the claw end of the hammer yeah. He uses both ends of this hammer, the claw end and the hammer, and of course he goes to stab. Her and multiple stab wounds, honour on her fry em back and then he took the linen from the bed and threw it on top of her body. Yeah yeah. They find a boot print. The boot print was left in blood, she'd that he put over her and this time they know it's a size seven wellington boot and they say that this boot blueprint matches the one founded Emily Jackson's murder on the honor thigh. So let me at this point they have to know their dealings

a serial killer. You would think in because most of these women have been prostitutes because they don't associate the the fourteen year old girl. They think he's only targeting prostitutes. They think it's a man that just hates prostitutes so as next victim jane mcdonald, who is sixteen years old, listen leads. This is june twenty six nineteen, seventy seven she's walking home from shop, she worked at while she had been hanging out with a friend out in a field and so they part around one thirty. in the end right it's early morning, Now she is going to. I guess, head back home, the other she needs a taxi. Peter sees her and he rose up, he parks and what,

sir from afar takes out his hammer and his kitchen knife. She was walking through the red light district area, but I think you look so young man, it's probably obvious, she's, not a prostitute. I dont think you really care is at this point though. Well, that's that's a question whether he would know or not. He strikes her in the back of the head and she falls down and he drags her face down to a play area like area is the playground, that's where he Pulls up her clothes and he finishes her off she'll, be found by children the next day at the playground. One hears the trouble allotted p. Give commentary on this, both the actual investigators, as well as others who have studied this case, and they keep saying that this is the first innocent victim of the Yorkshire ripper. But

find this to be a problem because to me they're all innocent, it doesn't matter what they were doing for a living if you're a person and someone murders you there shouldn't be this label What on area that she's the first innocent victim? What does that say about these somewhat? other victims were mothers in the fact that his first several victims, all lived, so they want even associated and now All of them were prostitutes either, but they hadn't even made that determination. Yet so to say this is his first innocent is one disregarding The prostitutes in to sell so ignorant because they don't even know that disguise been doing this for a long time, for the even realise there is a connection here. That's one thing that kept popping up. Is people kept saying? Well, she wasn't a prostitute, so she was an innocent victim and again I would say that they were all

innocent next one maureen long she's, forty two years old july, ten, nineteen, seventy seven and bradford peter sir a he was out with ronnie an David baker, so Peter was out with two of his friends: and more reign was out on her owner with her friends. Were he offered for a ride. Yeah, there's there's a bunch of taxis out and she's, not getting into the taxis parent, shouldn't have enough money or whatever, but I think he asked is something I thinks cost has something to do with why some of these women just kidding, vehicle with a man, and she talks about how. a guy that she lives with, but she said that you know him do not be home, so they might be able to go back to her place. Actually she ends up directing him somewhere else. Yeah and I dont know

it's because she asked to be, or she suspects that the guy probably will be home and is not works even trying. I think it's all the above. I think that she thinks the guy will be home and she asked you're in it, so they go to a secluded area, she ghost p and, as usual, that's when he strikes. He hid her several times in the head and begin to rip her dress up to the waist and started to slash her a lie on a caravan was going by a night watchman was by the waste grounds, alerted to a dog barking for people on being in the area, and he saw what He thought was a white ford cortina mark to this. I was driving away at a high rate of speed, so he knows the time at three three, twenty seven, a m Maureen would be

discovered in the morning. She lives. She gives a detailed description of him. She asked you undergoes surgery and her life has very much destroyed from this point on jeanne, Jordan, twin years old october. First, nineteen, seventy seven, she is a prostitute. The killer comes across Jean Jordan and hackles about the price. How much is going to cause for us to get together here and at the time Firstly, its five pounds is a standard charge. Allow these women would ask for the the payment up front deadline

money in hand before they would even go anywhere or do anything they would meet somewhere, which is its it. It's a place near a cemetery here he gets out of the car and he follows her out into. I guess you could say it's a wasteland area and he hits her with a hammer. Hits are number of times in the head, but while he is attacking her, there are other people around here: realize they were there, but apparently there are other people out there enjoying prostitutes. around the summit from near a cemetery. It's like in his wasteland area by the cemetery, and so of course, this freaks him out he's already run because of cars and because of voices will now there are people not too far from him.

In fact, as he's over her this car, the headlights come on and that really freaks him out the car get started, and so he tries to polar underneath the some bushes and then he takes off, but then realises that He can't find her purse, so this car get started he's getting really nervous. He realizes there are other people out there, so he needs to get out of there, so he grabbed his hammer any leaves he drives away. He realizes that he's forgotten his money. But now does he tried to go back, but there are other people there as we decided not to so he's waiting and

He doesn't see anything in the news about this. So then he's thinking I should go back. We re takes him about a week before he goes back and he finds it. He finds her body it still out. There has not been reported, no one's come across it. Apparently he must if the bushes must have hidden the body well enough. So now he starts looking around for her purse. He cant find it so he searches, further and further out and apparently gets upset, and takes out his anger on her body. He starts ripping off her clothes and is still looking for his money. Does my but he's taking off her clothes and then He starts stabbing and slashing her course. She's been dead out there for a while, but we won't go into these details are pretty horrific, cut

Her head he's mutilating her what he he attempts to, but the knife not going to work. So he attempts to use a tax on bad. He can't get the head off but ends up fleeing the scene again. Now, there's a reason why this is important, because that five pound note they leave behind for him may I have just been a case of I want my money back here by some alice ends at finding her purse and there's like a front pocket in the purse. It's not readily visible, but that's where she had stuff your money and that's where his five pound note was. I think there are two notes. One of them is five pound note. They know that the five pound note was very knew. They were able to trace that back to the printing.

ways who then tells them where it that five pound note was distributed to the bank and the banks, able to tell them that this five pound note was used for payroll right, but they dont know exactly which company would have received this particular five pound note. So the investigators will end up at some point: I mean going through an experiment where they take the same number of notes and then what they do is they have them count through and distribute them ready them to be sent off to the different companies and then they track. how their distributed and they figure out, they narrow it down to three different companies, which is, I was a pretty incredible yeah, especially for the time, but this is over time. This will be a problem They have to go through and they'll end up narrowing down by this five pound. Note

gives them a smaller collection of specific people to go through to question they end up setting up interviews november. Second, nineteen. Seventy seven. They interview a man peter Sutcliffe, about his payroll about his getting paid, and this was in late september when he was paid the money, but he says he doesn't have any of those bills from being paid that day, Peter sutcliffe worked at tea and w h, clark holding

was limited, so he would have been one of the people that would have received this five pound note now as far as alibi, because they want a question. You know where were you on this night? Where were you on this night? Both he and his wife state that he stays home and his wife gives him the alibi. She is his witness. She is his alibi, so the police take this answer: will they accept it and they just figure? Well, both he and his wife are both saying that he was home and this is when he went to bed, so he couldn't have committed these murders and in by murders right now, they're really focusing on in Jordan because that's where they found the five pound note was in her purse just days after that interview to other officers, because they're, following up on the lead visit, Sutcliffe Peter and Sonya his wife. Both say what

said the other officers. But this time they also contact peters mother, because they find out that she in around and she says oh yeah. I was there, apparently see they had had like a housewarming party She and her husband had gone to hang out with pierre and his wife and he drove them back to their home in bingley afterward. To give you an idea, peter sutcliffe met sonya when She went out one night. This is back when they were younger. Is this his wife right? She would end up becoming his wife, but when they were younger, her dad had told her. No, she can't go she went anyway. They met each other at pub disco in bradford. And apparently became an item right away and we're married on august, ten nineteen, seventy four

this twenty eight years old and she was twenty four hours. Mary they moved in with his parents, and they would save up money and then purchase home of their own when they first met. Peter was a grave. Her and she was a primary school teacher more later becomes a lorry driver frame. it doesn't our lorry drivers is a person who drives large vehicle, say a truck delivery, truck yeah delivery track transporting it's but that's how he meets her. That's who he is with they've, been married for a little while at this point again married in nineteen. Seventy four. Now there he's being questioned in nineteen seventy seven, because he could have possibly gotten this five pound note and given it to a prostitute who was murdered. Let's care color. Everyone has a different routine salon. Visits highlights ballet ash and there are a ton of women who color their hair at home. There

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I'd pound price. They went down the road about a mile and a half and eight they go out to this. This waste ground area. This seems to be the kind of place to go with your process, to which a sort of weird and something else that he says to a lot of these women is the cars is small. Can we do it in the grass and that's how he gets them out of the car, so he can attack them. It's probably a good idea, because if he attacks them in his car, then evidence could be left in the car yeah what they get there and he suggests that they get in the back seat, but that gets her out of a car and she gets and she goes to open the backdoor, but it's locked peter comes around the car tries to better, but he loses his balance. So this sort of a scratch here cause she realizes that she's being attacked, but the swing didn't quite knocker out social

start screaming. Dogs are barking, people start taking paying attention here, peter regains its footing and strikes friend, had multiple times in there He jumps in his car and takes off, but Marilyn is alive oh, she gets to a farm, both our sheep. goes towards the road to get to a farm. but she reaches other people and that a man calls for an ambulance for her. dude injuries, the police think that description of this man is unreliable, they don't associate her with the Ripper day This is sort of, I think one of many times and they dropped the ball.

So in other words the it was a ruse when he asked her to get in the back seat, jackets out to go to the back seat in the back door's locked yeah and that's how he can get the jump on her. Now. He flees the scene, as you said, but investigators find that the tire tracks from the front tires have the exact same tire tracks I laughed at the scene of Irene richardson yeah. They know they have the same attacker involve between these crimes. Victim Helen rigour she is eighteen years old. This is January thirty, first nineteen, seventy eight she's, a prostitute Helen had a twin sister Rita and they both been prostitutes, but only for a short time. So

they. I guess you could say were a little paranoid about being prostitutes, and so they came up with a plan What they would do is they would try to take clients at the same time so and so what they could do as they could watch and see who was going with who, so that there would be a witness if something happened to the other and they would a lot time so one one would go off with John and then made me back at a point, but her sister never return. So she realized something was wrong that night, but this is where their plan didn't quite work, because this now

like she took down the plate. While you hit her with the hammer a number of times and he would end up stabbing her to death to finish her off, her sister came back and she didn't. She realized that her sister wasn't coming back. The creepy thing about this case I think, is that there was a man, We would watch these women. He could have chosen either one of these to watch. He he liked to watch the women go off with their men and watch them have sex. That's what got him going and that night he didn't follow Helen. He followed Rita, but that's where the investigators were wishing that he had followed Helen because then he would have witnessed the murder, because this guy would do it hidden. You know he would follow at a distance and stay hidden and just sort of observed them

but he followed her sister, not her, so he didn't witness the murder, so they said literally if he had to say their minutes earlier to go off and chase her and follow her. Then they would have had some probably a good witness. enhance more murders have happened. The police have not stopped their investigation. Obviously interview three with Peter sutcliffe takes place august, thirteenth, nineteen, seventy eight and one of the things that they had started doing was they were going to these red light districts, these areas where the prostitutes would work and they were recording car numbers, so they would just walk, She came and went and just take down their plate numbers and they ended up seeing a red ford, corsair seven times so Peter sutcliffe on this car. They went to his house

He said that while the I've been deals areas, but I was going to or from work and I have to drive through those areas to do that. Well. Officers figure well he's the red light areas. We ve seen the car in the areas we dont think he's just driving through. And so they make up something to get his wife to leave the room. I don't, I think they ask her to go, make some tea or something, and they just ask em in or you seeing prostitutes and, of course he says now. No, no, I don't. I don't go and see prostitutes, I don't do that and Sonya ends up coming back in she reiterate snow. We really don't go out very often and he's here with me all the time. So this is where they make a grave error. They dont check his car tyres. I remember some of these attacks. There have been tire marks, they know the type of time

or is there dealing with they? Don't even bother look at his tyres. You would think That would be like hey wanna talk to us. Meanwhile, the pot There is going to the garage and check in the car out. You would think right november, twenty third nineteen, seventy eight, the same officer who had met with him previously learns tat peter sold his car and that he is now driving a rapier. He design to go and find out where this corsair went. So we can check out the tires well when he finds the vehicle. The car has completely new tyres on it. The other tyres are gone. We could just go to the next notable victim, but should be Josephine. We whittaker

Josephine would occur. Nineteen years old April. Fourth, nineteen, seventy nine. She was a building society clerk so again a so called innocent victim, although I think we covered that yeah. They say by this point that he realizes that you know between the interview whose and because he's committed so many crimes in certain area that he needs to branch He needs to go a little further out so that he's not in an area. It might be watched or that may be. The people are expecting to see an attack in, and this is probably how he comes across Josephine. He was out drinking with his friend trevor again, and drops trevor off at home and then he died. I was off in another direction to kind of throw off the investigation night. He doesn't want to go home, he wants to go out and get,

a victim more yeah, but in while he's doing this he's not going to his normal hunting ground so she'd been out at a church party and wasn't gonna return until late and return home until now, he goes to a park and there's few people walking their dogs and then he spots her and he catches to her and they begin talking. He asked her if she had far to go, and that she said she was walking to her grandmothers house. He asked her that time and there's a clock nearby, she's able to read the club. And he behaves as if he's amazed at her eyesight and he stops in his tracks and looks at the clock, squint sad it. She continues walking and thinks that he's just been in

and looking up clock when really he was stalling, so he could remove the hammer out of his pocket hand. He attacks her it's her. She starts moaning at this time. There's people in the park and they come running along the pavement where he sat so he freezes and doesn't do anything doesn't hitter anymore, but multiple people, are walking around at this point. So it's again, I just don't understand How he's getting away with this? In plain sight, multiple people are in the park, a guy. Why? in his dog will later give a description of him in the woman was up weapons has with them, is a sharp and screwdriver yeah and hell stab her twenty one times in the chest and stomach and in six times in her leg, and he also well, he does other yeah. If you want more details on this, he he will do.

who killed me the white woman internally with the screwdrivers at Crime scene, they find a boot print again this route print. They can tell that it's a size. Seven wellington work boot, but the way that the right boot is worn gives them dear. That he's probably a lorry driver, because if you drive track your having to push on the break with your your one foot constantly. So it's going to wear that boot in a different way than the other one. Yes, your other flitches sort of sets there on the floor. when they're doing the autopsy. They also find oil in her wounds. Engineering oil and She also has a bite wound on her. That reveals, that whoever did this has a gap in their front teeth. Yes, he attacks her. There are people around it, freaks him out, he'll end up fleeing,

there's a lot of evidence left at the scene so well five pound note, gets them. Looking at a certain number of people, particular people, because there is an apparent serial killer at work here, they need someone to head out the investigation. George Oldfield had been appointed as the person to lead the investigation into these crimes and he will come up with his methods for how he's going to solve this, and one thinks he does He comes up with an index system which is exactly what it sounds like it's it's index cards and he wants everyone to write down everything making it your views, evidence notes whatever they have, he wants it all down index cards, so they can go through them and supposedly this will help in their investigation

but I onslaught of information that is not categorized in any kind of way that they can access the data efficiently and tied stuff together, Well, one of the reasons for that is because they have so many people going out and interviewing potential suspects that they're taking lots of notes, and so they have lots of index cards and then there are not relief file in them right away the sort of sex aside to be filed later, as is sometimes things don't get file for a long time and then They said that they had so many documents, so many index cards that they had to fortify the floor. Out of the room that it was in for the weight, because how much weight was added from all of these documents so in it if you taken consideration, that area one of these detectives or police officers,

they have their own style of taking a report. They don't really have a standardization yet so what I says stolen property, another guy, says stolen items, hammer blah blah blah blah. He list them out, but not all of them take down to that detail. So it's real hard? Even if you know what you're looking for to find it and then find that it's reported and recorded properly, so this is just a mess as I said, george appeal was placed in charge of the investigation, something more occur that will forever taint him. It will affect this investigation in a really negative way, and that is on march, eight nineteen. Seventy eight there's a letter

to george Oldfield? Dear sir, I am so sorry. I cannot give my name for obvious reasons. I am the Ripper. I have been dubbed a maniac by the press, but not by you. You call me clever, and I am you in your mates- haven't a clue that photo in the paper gave me fits in that bit about killing myself. No chance. I've got things to do purpose to rid the streets of them slots. My one regret is that young lassie mcdonald did not know has changed routine, that night up to number Now you say seven but remember preston. Seventy five get about you know you are right. I travel a bit. Probably looked for me and sunderland dont bother, I am not daft, just pay, that letter there, I'm gonna my trips, not a bad place compared with chapel town and manningham and other places worn whores to keep streets because I feel it coming on again sorry about young lassie, yours respectfully jack, the Ripper my right again later, I'm not sure

ass. One really deserved it horace getting younger each time old slot next time. I hope huddersfield never again to small close call. Last one. He starts sending letters and he ll send a tape. Cassette tape, you remember those yeah, and these are all dressed to george Oldfield and the tape is sent june. Seventeen nineteen, seventy nine. and he he basically mocks george, it's weird it's like he says he respects him, but he's mocking him because he sang you'll. Never catch my basic. The recording is really directed at george. It's very personal and he addresses them as george in the tape as well and, of course he signs off his jack, the ripper and he says no good looking. Fingerprints. You should know by now it's as clean as a whistle see you soon by hope. You like the catchy tune at the end there is a song at the end, which is thank you for being a friend so

the reason I say that this colors, the investigation in it interferes with it, is because George Oldfield, he takes this recording personally and it affects them because he's been eating living breathing this case in the press there totally destroying the the law enforcement for allowing these murders continue. So this guy's riled up in recording he just like yeah that's the guy. That is absolute the person and now we know what his voice sounds like and he has a certain accent: the sunderland yeah. So it's a certain area at this point they start, excluding suspects. or anyone. That's not from this one, particular area, and he does this in the face of facts and

evidence? I think Maureen one of the victims that survived. They play the tape for her and she said that's, not his voice, but they don't take her word for it because he knows lead. Investigator knows this is the man because he's addressing me directly and he takes a personal. He takes his own personal that just a couple of months after he gets the tape, he suffers a heart attack ouch and he has to take sick leave. This is his downfall. He never really recovers once he comes back it's not long before he is removed from the investigation altogether, but this is kind of a

lessing, that he's removed correct. Oh yes, we'll after he is removed. The Ripper super squad is formed, which is interesting to call it that, and one of the people involved is doctor. Stuart kind he'll end up. I guess you could say plotting where all of the attacks have occurred, that they have a we did to the Yorkshire Ripper. He gives them an idea about where the killer probably lives, so they have nothing more to go on and they're, not eliminating suspects. Now, in July nineteen, seventy nine there's a fifth interview with Peter Sutcliffe, an detectors andrew laptop and grand greenwood. They show up to interview him, but they don't know that he's been interviewed about five pound note.

Or anything about his having visited the red light districts. That's because, even though he was questioned on these things and detectives did take notes, they didn't update his file. What yeah they took notes. They had their index cards, but they didn't put them in his file. Lap two is talking with them and based on all of the photo fit evidence they have he's looking at Peter Sutcliffe and thinking wait a minute. This guy looks a lot like the guy we're looking for. He has a beard, his height and his build are correct. He has collar length, black hair, he's sort of dark compacted and his feet are on the smaller side. He wears size, seven shoes and

there is a gap in between his top to teeth matches the bite mark. Lap, too, is riding up report. That says, I think we have something here. Just days later, he finds out that Peter sutcliffe could ever see that five pound note based on their investigation based on their experiments, and he also covers that he had been arrested, and convicted for going equipped to steal, as you have described earlier, but he didn't follow up on that he would have had to gone to another records office to find out. What he had on him at the thai actual items, which would have been a hammer and a screwdriver which of totally narrowed down forum where he went and I just that- but he would also found that he had been arrested for me. In a stationary car in a red light district yeah. All these things things all tied together, and so your view,

Looking at all this, it seems so obvious to you, but to these investigators who are Really sharing notes like they should they have one piece of the puzzle on and the reports are being filed. It can be very frustrating, so people type set up a two page report and it doesn't get looked at for nine months. Because of the letters and the tape that were sent in his reports, not given much that they don't trust his report, now more than they. They seemed not trust a lot of things during all this investigation. They don't try One woman's description of of the perpetrator because she gets the car wrong. They don't try. Another one because they think the wounds on her couldn't have been done by such a small man.

we step along the way. It's like they don't want to listen to the victim's right, so his accent does not match the person you called yeah, which they have given the collar. I guess first on the tape they ve, given him the name where side jack and so when they test peer sutcliffe against, whereas I jack there like well, doesn't have same action it doesn't live in the correct area, his handwriting doesn't match and they got on the less than they just keep finding ways to say that Peter Sutcliffe is not a good suspect, yeah innate they found. solid alibis on previous interviews. You know at the time it wasn't a big deal, because the ripper wasn't in full force. So these are just interviews about things and I understand how they could of flood the lot of this, but the whole accent on the tape is, I guess, the key point of they really.

drop the ball it. This is mid january, nineteen eighty, they will end up doing another interview with peer sutcliffe. What happens is, is they had performed? another experiment and they narrow down the likely path of these banknotes to three firms and their clark, butterfield and parkinson but even more importantly, they narrow down the number of people that were affected. They could have received these notes to two hundred forty one people on this seventh interview. They not only go to talk with peter because he could have received. No. But they also search his house in his garage which they agree to yeah. So the sergeant constable are interviewing sutcliffe about his whereabouts. On nights murders and while they are aware of previous interviews about five pound notes, were not aware that he had given

any handwriting samples. So again, they only find that out because Peter mentions it again, this whole system of this index system doesn't help them, because you don't have people filing the reports like they should filing their notes like they should updating peter suck cliffs file, that's not getting updated, and that's just one, are there not updating imagining the other ones are no. They abandon the whole tire tread in tracing at two cars because they did not have the manpower at the time so and you find out that his car model was on the and investigate Did portion of that list that they had gone through? You have you wonder if that would have even help them, because they don't seem to will he changed his car out before they would have gotten to to his car?

right right and they had gone through a great number of cars actually before they stopped. So it's pretty surprisingly sammy they ve gone through, and then they suddenly decide to stop because they feel like well were trying to run these murderer investigations and run entire investigation, and they just said hey, I get it. I mean it's not it's not as simple as what we have today. So I get it. I think a lot of these things are excusable for the time and technology they had available to them. But the really crazy thing about the seventh interview is one of the they were doing was when they would talk to people. They had a list of those who, like on their list, they could see who had say records previous dealings with the police and they had seven other tuna. Forty one had prior dealings with the police criminal activity at what have you but

were eighteen individuals who they had missed, did have prior dies with the police, but they didn't have the marked down on their list. One of those Eighteen was pierce uclaf. So again, while they were there, if they had known, he had been part in a red light district and arrested for that before or going to commit. After what have you? Maybe they would have taken a better look at him. Yeah now, absolutely it's possible. They would end up interviewing him twice more, so nine times they ve come back to this guy. Now the ninth interview they actually go to his place of work. and ask him about his car sightings. You know you were seen here and then you were seen over here and over there, and he had always excuses oh, I was just going through because a work, oh and there I don't go there. I don't know, that's not me, I don't know you're talking about so again.

Lotta, deflection and yeah and by this means They know they know he's a lorry driver. We say suspect the killer is who knows maybe they're a diamond dozen again, you have that original. fine and arrest where he was caught with a hammer in philips had screwdriver on, but they don't make that connection either. You want go to his arrest or what Yeah, let's get gas on january. Second, nineteen, eighty one about four p m, Peter Sutcliffe, tells his wife he's heading out to help his sister, her cars broken down. So. he's not really doing that he's actually heading to a scrap yard. Where he's going to grab a couple of plates

One of them's actually off the vehicle, the other one still on it. He takes it off the vehicle at nine pm. He calls his wife and says my car is having trouble and what he does is. He takes black electrical tape. Any puts these plates that he's taken off this other vehicle and he puts him over his current plates. So he tapes around the edges yeah and held them on their low fi way. Yeah. This is pretty basic here, and so he heads off to look for a prostitute and the first one. He me It's worth you know, bends down, looks in the in the car and takes a look at him and she's scared off by him. Cause she's seen his picture in all the newspapers and on the tv, maybe maybe, or she said that his eyes frightened her. Yet a lot of 'em actually had given descriptions that he had really fast moving eyes kind of like a meth head or something

but another prostitutes who she knew very well her name, is olivia, she doesn't have any problem with them. She's gonna get in the car with him. and they drive a half mile away to park in the driveway of a place called light trades house, which is offices, and apparently they were too late- the driveway could fit to vehicles since, like a warehouse district color, This is where things sort of come to a head sergeant. Albert rain and probationary constable robert hides spot this car park there they get out and they walk up new approach. The vehicle and peter thinks he can talk his way out, he's already done the interviews with the police- and he sends them away every time- he's feeling sort of confident but he's a little nervous because he is with a prostitute yeah he's gonna get in trouble because he's doing something illegal,

says to levy says I would say he doesn't know her name. The they haven't even got that far there probably been negotiating for price the price was more important than the name right and he just said, look you're my girlfriends. Let me do the talking and. He gives his own name to the officer as peter Williams and, of course, sergeant. Ring wants to know. Who are you with that? Your girlfriend? What's her name, and he can't even tell them you can come up with the name on the fly. Kids, you say This is just a car. Can she probably would have gone along with it because they're both in trouble, so that's their way of getting out of being in trouble, but heap he stalls or heap chokes on that yet sergeant ring calls the plate in they end up coming back as belonging to a completely different car. So they know there's something wrong here: yeah. Meanwhile, the probationary constable

notices that the plates are just affixed to the car, with electrical tape, not a good sign so they take a living out of the vehicle and they put her in the police, car and so Cliff says all the sun he like gets up and he's like I've. Gotta go p now, but they dont know is that he's reached under a sea and grabbed a hammer and a knife. He runs off any plan. Since these items behind in oil tank yeah, but they think they actually think he's going to pee because he comes back yards like his oils george tank, and for whatever reason they don't seem alarm He just runs off like that. It's a different time: men. They end up taking p and a to the emerton road police station He says I've gotta go p as soon as he gets into the station, so they don't seem surprised by this. I don't know They think people have to pee when they're nervous, her white, but they let him go

goes another bathroom. He opens up. This water system and drops this knife that he had kept in his coat inside of it so he's now. Hidden a hammer and a knife over where he was taken an Hidden a knife in the water cistern at the police station will end in remember earlier. He hid the knife in the bud guard on a police van as they were taking them away. So he has a tendency to hide his weapon. Literally as he's being arrested, pretty crazy. I guess they don't frisk them before they are wonderfully try to track that down in out here. I don't know they're going hold him there, because since they know

He stole these plates. They have to contact the police in the jurisdiction of where the plates were stolen so that they can take him, that's their crime to handle. So they discover that it's the deuce, bury police They have to deal with him once the police start or new shift at six, a m they'll send some officers out to collect him for the first time. I think I can comfortably say, there has been an order given that will help them not based on personal feelings or a bad call, this is actually something that helps them. The call is if a man is found with a prostitute and they're picked up, they need to alert the Ripper squad, so they do. And they do that, while around noon the next day, detective sergeant desert no boil arrives at the station to interview peter Sutcliffe. He will be talking with Peter Sutcliffe

but while this is happening sergeant, robert ring is, thinking wait a minute this. This is the guy. It looks like this is the guy yeah he s going because he remembers that he had run off to pee. Any thinking wait a minute. What was he doing yeah? What was it In doing so, it goes to the location where he was paying any fines. He sees that there is a hammer. Annie sees that there's a knife, and so course get photographs and then they collect the hammer. The knife at this point when he comes back, We say that this is when Peter knows that the game is up. He finally understands that he has been caught yeah, they got me well first, it was really just the plates there be ass. He was found with a process to put right at this point. You thought it was just going to be the plates, but-

now he noses, got real and there is really no way out so he admits he tells them. I'm the yorkshire Ripper confesses. and I don't you think he asked for a lawyer like he just as no. I just need to get this off my chest and then the only stipulation, if you Well, he says that he wants to be the one to talk to his wife about it yeah. He doesn't want her to find out now she was told when he's arrested, she's notified that he wants to be the one to tell her that he's the Ripper, which is very strange, will in I know He was very close with his brother. His his younger brother always thought of him as more of a a father figure. Peter would give him advice on life, and you know kind of took him under his wing and peter and his brother. His younger brother, were at home.

talking about the yorkshire ripper does it was on the news or something and his little brother said man. I hate that guy. If I caught him, I would I would chop, is balls off and peter took offence to this end, pray much stormed out of the house but it's just weird to me how he can compartmentalize that I mean he's. I, why you're my brother? How could you say something about me. Even noah's. Brother doesn't know, he's talking about him, but it's just that whole. The association of he thinks it's ok murder, all these people and somehow the public and even his own family would be behind him in this act. I don't know it's weird No, he wanted to tell his brother also. I don't know if those parties stimulation or not, but he wanted to inform his family

yes, he did say that he wanted to inform his family. That's true. Now we talked about the attacks and we talked about that. He had partially this road, these women. But there is always that question because they he didn't seemed to leave any evidence of a sexual assault of array. yes, he didn't rape them. So what was going on and when they His confession, the he's telling them I'm the Ripper. They ask him to take his clothes off. They want to check him out. There just there is going to look them over and take note of. What's going on, I dunno, if they're looking for, if he has any scratch marks, or what have you they're going to document yes yeah and when he pulls his pants off, they see that he's wearing something very strange. They actually ask him like what is that He says they're leg warmers! Well,

what he had done was he had taken a venus sweater and made leg warmer is out of it. What would happen was you would pull it up and it would cover up his knees all the way up to his serve like his waist area, by the front area. The genital area would be completely free, so Why was he doing this that? So he could attack these women and then he would take his pants off any good kneel down. without getting in germany, where he would have some protection on his knees and he would be free to pleasure himself over them. So this was his masturbation pants one, it's creepy because again they didn't oh and we obviously, if he's targeting prostitutes, there has to be some sort of sexual angle right yeah, but since they did finally evidence of rape. This, is where it really cemented that these were sexually motivated attacks, because

He said early on there is the whole. Well did a prostitute short him at some point and he felt anger over that another. Saying that he ended up saying was: god spoke to him. Why was a grave digger and said that he needed to kill prostitutes yeah in his confession. He would say that these voices were telling him to murder these women and it was he interpreted as god, and he would later go on to become very religious, be baptized but would go I've wanted him to masturbate over the corpses of these victims. Do we want go into the trial. Or do we want to just go straight that sentencing and what happens when we can say briefly what he says is he's not guilty because of diminished responsibility. Reasons of insanity, Well because he heard voices yeah again. I don't know that these voices. Why do these other things to the body, but

That was his angle. Of course, the court doesn't accept it and he's given twenty life sentences, so never to be released, but he doesn't go to prison. Well, that's just it he's diagnosed as a paranoid. a frantic, so he sent off to broad, more broad, more psychiatric hospital which a maximum security hospital in this. Stop a lot of the victims, families and a lot of the nation because well they they actually wanted to reverse their ban on the death penalty. For this man, that's how much He was hated in ninety ninety three. They actually had to rule that he needed to be forced to take his medication yeah, because he would never take it and that's

probably a common thing with people who are mentally ill, they don't want to take their medication, they think they're, fine, yeah, oh you're, not going to screw me up. They started forcing the ninety three, his wife divorced. ninety four, but at least for a while. She continues to visit him, but he went in early eighties so she stayed with them for almost over a decade. That's where I live. People had questions about her role, All this like. What did she know? She seemed a little too eager to give him alibis when the police would come in and quick gin. Now I know to most people a psychiatric hospital would sound like a much more pleasant experience than a prison, If you watch any documentaries on this hospital, it's not a pleasant place. There were lots of other famous people. I call them inmates, but I guess there technically patients

that this hospital ronnie cray robert nap, her David copeland, nail bomber just a whole list, Michael Petersen, who changed its name to Charles bronson broad. More has inmates transferred from prisons to the hospital and transfers prisoners from the hospital to prison,

It's in it's run like a prison. I know people were upset that more recently Peter said that he might be sent to a prison, but he wasn't happy about that, because he'd be losing his privileges, but at the hospital it's run like a prison. He has privileges that he can lose or gain and they interact with the staff daily and they try to integrate the men there socially and in what jobs and stuff one problem with the hospital is. Food is a plenty unlike a prison. They they feed their their patients well and there's a high rate of diabetes and obesity, so Peter

now, I think, has diabetes and is suffering from a lotta ill. Health effects will definitely I he was attacked by someone who is ironic because he actually attacked one of his victims eyes. Well, he was attacked and he aston. I yeah the first year he was out there at the the hospital. Another patient attacked him with a glass jar to his face in the broken shards like it was you look at pitchers he's just his whole face looks all frankenstein. He now some further notes. the inspector of constant worry, Sir Lawrence by furred, you could Give him a sort of firm he's, a guy that independently, I guess you could say, audits, police departments and officers. Internal affairs kind of deal p

made a report up that sort of they always say you learn from your mistakes yeah. So this report is meant show where everything went wrong, because if you say, while we interviewed guy nine times is that being the killer, and there were lots of signs that he was involved lots of things. in red flags and I'm sure there was a lot more connections to Peter than there were other people, they were interviewing just based on description. Car tyres, all those things, but they just couldn't put it together. So in his s them, jane, the lack of examining the tires was a big problem. He found that there was a backlog of thirty six thousand documents that had yet to be filed. While he also said that this idea of this

here that, whereas I jack was genuine, that he was the killer was a terrible, terrible thing for the investigation because they were wrong fully letting Peter sutcliffe go the suspecting ere? He doesn't have the right accident or his handwriting doesn't match. That's just beyond ridiculous, and then also he said, the interviews of sutcliffe by the officers were riddled with failures. But he said that the where side hoax was perhaps the most fundamental failure, because it gave them a false suspect, because I could see how some of the police investigations or interrogations were riddled with errors, because they didn't have the tools, the resources or the information needed to properly interview him. So I guess I don't blame all the constables and officers here, it's the entire system.

and I guess they overhauled the system after this case, standardized how things are placed into evidence and record keeping all of these things changed literally because of this ripper, oh yeah, this this destroyed reputations. This case did so, but again you learn from your mistakes, and hopefully this made things a lot easier for the police for the public now, where side jack it what's up with this guy now George Oldfield ends up dying in the eighties. He really billy that, whereas I jack was the guy eventually he finds out a isn't by it and it takes a while. I think it takes a couple of decades. Pride ego, lots of things and they tracked down who wears hijack is in what they do. Is they find dna? I think on an envelope

and they tested and they find out, there's a man named John humble and he was a former builder but was at the time unemployed and he was an alcoholic, and this is weird he's, but he's he admits it to it. Being a house bet they're going to arrest him for their so yeah. He says that he's pleading not guilty because he can't really remember he knows there's a hoax, but he isn't really remember all what went into it. So he is, he says, he's not responsible because he has really remember it, but in every high profile case there are craig these that calling with fake leads and do this kind of shit in

We're seeing first hand how he can interrupt an investigation in totally derail the police as to who the real suspect is and the damage caused well humble gets it because he sends day ears. I don't feel bad about that. I feel any sympathy for the man No, you have to wonder. I know that we have to put the blame on George Oldfield, because it was his call. and he got. As you said, he got to. Emotional, about the ladders and about the tape. But if we're side jacket never called in may be that when it made a big difference, its yeah. It absolutely through that the investigation off because of this man's ego-

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