« The Happiness Lab with Dr. Laurie Santos

For Whom the Alarm Clock Tolls


'Time famine' is when you just don't feel you have a spare moment... and it can make you miserable. It's a feeling Dr Laurie Santos knows only too well, so she seeks help from her time affluence hero, Idler author Tom Hodgkinson.

Tom lives life to the full, but he ensures he carves out time to wander around, think, chat with friends and even take naps. He argues that 'idling' is vital to leading a happy, creative and productive existence. Is he right? And if so, what can we all do to break free from the tyranny of time?

For an even deeper dive into the research we talk about in the show visit happinesslab.fm

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This is an unofficial transcript meant for reference. Accuracy is not guaranteed.
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Before you begin to enjoy this new episode of the happiness than I wanted to check and about how this and other seas into episodes relate to the current crisis, we are all facing my team and I started work on this new season long before anyone had heard of covert nineteen but the corona virus pandemic has now changed all of our lives in ways that would have seemed almost unimaginable back, then I mean the list is pretty grim isolation, illness loss in Greece, as well as a huge disruption to a lot of our career and even the destruction of many jobs. We debated whether to scrap this whole season completely, but in the end we decided to release these shows as we originally planned. I hope you still find tips in this episode that will help you during the scary time, and I hope that after this crime
sounds which it well: they had back into the world armed with new ideas to help you increase your happiness in the meantime, stay safe and stay happy. Looking back in my every Wednesday February? Fifth twenty twenty was a fairly ordinary and by fear, ordinary. I mean to say that my day was absolutely pact to the brim which makes sense, because I don't just have one amazing job. I have lots of them. I'm a professor, and the research scientist, I run the owls residential colleges, which means I have over four hundred students to take care of all the time. I travel a bunch for public lectures to spread the science of happiness. I mean you're too, all my amazing staff, a colleague to my science, friends and now I'm a pastor do so. How do I? track of all these different roles, my planner It's a small red notebook that I carry with me everywhere. It's where I
every single commitment I have including the time it starts in the time it ends my planet is like a precious round. It helps me keep pack of what I need to do every single day and so on I'm looking in my planner, the page for Wednesday February, fifth, twenty twenty, which, as usual, was completely pact. On that day, I had some podcast stuff to do a specific times. Three Prince Stewed meetings, a staff meeting and an important department talk, after which I wrote in very decisive, all caps lettering. Three forty five p m. Immediately That was a note to remind myself that I needed to get out of that department talk a little early in order to make it to the airport. For my flight to DC that night, that one was a very, very hard stop, but on this particular busy day my boarding got to begin with a really exciting start: eight a dot m with Tom Hotchkiss, it personal heroes. I'm here I can only hey very faintly. I'm admired Tom and his work for years very record. I had
at all times interview for a whole hour and my calendar, but with so, much to ask him. I was worried. I wouldn't have enough time and by this point, We were already ten minutes into our time together and Tom couldn't hear me, we tinkered with the MIKE's and check the phone connection. I kept ask Tom is my voice louder now, I'm afraid not know as the time tucked away. I Let me stress levels: rising It was already really difficult to find a long enough slot for this interview, and so I mean pushed through and risk me being late for all the rest of the stuff that day or should I tried reschedule for God knows when I was starting to freak out and then suddenly we have a pretty good job Tom could. Finally, here which meant the interview I was most looking forward to the season could begin so what what the topic, I was so anxious to jump into a Tom subject. About your history of becoming an idler liked. What drove you, too? That talk about kind of why you decided become more idle. I think I was fairly idle. I was
strong will towards idling yep idling its pretty foreign concept, at least for me, I tend to fill my day to the brim. Stay with meaningful, an interesting things. I always thought that was what I was supposed to do, but it's got into the point where my calendar is now so pact that I sometimes illegal, drowning and all the stuff I have to do. Maybe you can really, but is we'll see. This episode. If we really want to improve our happiness. We, to learn to do well a lot less Our minds are constantly telling us what to do to be happy, but what, if our minds, are wrong? What if our minds are lying to us, leading us away from oh really make us happy the Good NEWS? understanding the science of the mind complaint us all back in the right direction, your list,
to the happiness, lab, doktor, lorries in alarm, clock what a horrible invention, the horrible waited to holiday get out of bed covered, you lazy! You know where to get anywhere Tom is obsessed with clocks because he absolutely despises them in his book how to be idle Tom tells his reader. That to be happier they need to throw way their alarm clocks, I'm not one, those people who should have leaps, at the moment my eyes open. Wait to get on. With my day, you have got a lovely in between stage in between waken sleep when you're sort of half conscious of your dream, something I thought for lovely state to be in and a slower transition from sleep to wake up in a civilised. These days, clocks are everywhere from our night stands, are laptops to arrests. It's easy to forget that watching the minutes of the day tick by is actually, development medieval times. Should
stand. There were masters of their own time, so they can send a debit weaving, have a nap go into veritable garden, do a bit more weaving, go to church and so on life back then, why sometimes brutal? But Tom things are pre. Industrial ancestors enjoyed something that we have given up a complete disregard for one hour. It is for most of human. History is pretty hard to know the precise time all medieval folks had was the position of the sun. While that end. The bell was signal, the end of the kind of de shifted to fields or whatever the chimes from the church tower meant that it was time to put down your to us time to assemble together for worship or a meal time to think of something other than work that is until the industrial revolution kicked in, system change. You became a factory worker, the Capitalist Board
huge about machinery and invested in that they have, This machinery going well twenty four seven, ideally so the people were told blush not about working at home when you feel like it in a time kind of it will become a sort of like a tyrant, Thomas, like a resistance fighter at war this tyrannical concept of time and his private a weapon in the struggle is idling. Idling is the active loafing. Taking time to do nothing in particular think long watches midday naps tea time taking the scenic route getting lost for no reason at all daydreaming pinging with friends at the pub long happy conversations that run well pass the time we probably should have gone to Bed Tom encourages all of these. His books are manifestoes against the cult of productivity that many of us grew up with when you're, not working when your reflection, when you're walking around the graves with your friends and talking about art and love and philosophy a night
that's when you're really living and if we were overwork, then you neglect that very important part of life. I first learned at times back in the early two. Thousands, when I myself had just started to neglect all these important parts of life At the time I was on assistant, professor working all ours papers out in my lab up and running. I fully subscribe to the osity that my generation inherited back from the days of the industrial revolution that productivity is king. The idea of spending. Long hours walking around a grove with friends talking about art and philosophy mean that seemed incredibly foreign almost unattainable. But if I was being honest, it also sounded kind of amazing. I think it's one of the reasons I was first drawn to Tom's books to devote A good portion of each day or each week to idling is actually very, very good for you for your health mental health geophysical out for the health of your friends. That doesn't mean to say that you do
work we don enjoy joy, working. In fact, others would probably like to find something they would like to do anyway and make it into their work the problem according to Tom is when the to work, makes us a slave to the clock. When we completely lose any free time whatsoever to Morocco Looking at how watches let the white ravishing Lewis Carroll Wonderland, late late, I'm I'm really late. Unable to live in the moment. In our already things on twitter, saying, hey guys, sorry, but you know, if you're twenty six unit working hours, you're not gonna, get anywhere. I think that's so wrong. Work in itself is not good. That's one idea that I want to fight this idea that if any kind of hard work is morally good time is that our modern ethos of productivity is turning all of us into fortunate workhorses the kind that green literature has long warned us about in animal farm.
We have the example of the horse boxer who, when faced with problems, has work harder work harder work until he looks himself into an early. Graybeards is taken off to the glue factory. Now that to me is that the warning overwork causes stress heart disease. It obviously is bad for family life battlefield relationships and who is it good for for you, your ego, your boss, to make more money. You know when you thought you analyze these concepts. Like the work ethic, they thought to dissolve, say I'm trying to look at things from a different point of view, countries to leave his entire life in accordance with these beliefs, but many people find his suggestions deeply challenging at times his eye, You can sound like a radical religious ideology. Is not laziness to create free time for yourself, if you
mark of nobility it brings you close its eyes to the gods actually, because when you start to realize whether stuff comes from it comes from the people in power, Anti Marxist, but it comes from the owners of capital. It comes from the owners of the means of production. They wanted slave us. If we want to break free of the chains, William Blake, he talked about the mind, forged manacles, okay. We ve created a situation with our own minds and we can use our minds to to break free of these manacles as they talked a time for this interview and risk. Did on how stressed I'd been about my schedule. Just minutes before I got really sad. It's now been over, decades, since I first encounter Tom's work and I'm still not listening to his advice, if anything become even more trapped in those mine, forge manacles. He talks about that ethos of productivity at all cost, I mean don't get me wrong. I'm really grateful for all the career opportunities that keep me so busy, especially this podcast, which are absolutely a door
but I am also really really overworked. I dont admit it much, but I feel overwhelmed all the time I can't remember the last time I took a real vacation had even a moment to just be idle for the sake of being idle, let alone rapes across a girl of talking about philosophy. Theirs, a single entry in my red planter that says just do nothing and all of this makes me feel incredibly guilty because, as the host of this podcast I'm supposed to know usually I'm pretty good at following the advice I share with you, but this is one domain or I'm really sprang things up and honestly, I don't you know what to do to make my schedule less hectic these days, but as I always say: when all else fails, you should turn to science after the break will do just that. You'll hear what feeling this busy does your mental health into your relationships and will see that having an extra bit of Free time is more valuable for our well being
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All the things that we want to do or have to do, this is actually weapons, a professor at Harvard Business, school and author of the upcoming book time. Smart had it We claim your time and live a happier. Life actually is another one of my heroes. Instead of looking at whether we have objective LISA enough hours in a day we're looking at subjectively whether people feel like they have enough time time affluence is one of my favorite scientific concepts, because it's the opposite of what I experience on a near daily basis my calendar, never feels open. My subject. The feeling is one of extreme business. What researchers Ashley have christened time. Famine people today are feeling increasingly pressed for time increasingly time poor such that they feel like they have.
Too many things to do, and not enough time in the data do it and it's interesting, because there is also this data suggesting that we objective we have more time today than we used to say, subjective feelings of time. Stress are going up, while the objective amount of time that we have is actually going up as well. So why do we failed to notice the x minutes we all have each day. The reason according to science is that nowadays are free. Time tends to be broken up into tiny chunks or time confetti, So we have more time fatty now than we used to that leisure time. A sporadic had scattered because were constantly connected to our phones were trying to do many, many different tasks and our attention is being pulled in many directions. So this feeling of China in all of this stuff being pulled in all these directions during our free time can make us feel more pressed for time? I definitely get there.
Concept of time can Betty in my own life, because even when I get a break, it never feels like up I'll, be lounging in watching tv and I'll get a stressful text about work, well I'll, be in the middle of an otherwise enjoyable dinner tat. When I get this, anxious urged to do a quick email check, even launch, time. My items that should be reserved for conversation that often ends in a time that I spend alone trying to quickly scratch a few things ought that to do list sure I wind up getting more done. I mean it feel, like I'm, being productive and clearing things off my plate, but Ashley's search has shown that is taking more of a toll on me. Then. I realise these feelings of time stress this time. Famine comes at a cost of happiness,
some gallop world pull data that we analyze with two point: five million Americans. We found that this feeling of time famine had a worse impact on happiness, then being unemployed, so it seems to have dramatic consequences for a subject of well being. The problem, though, is that people don't realize the consequences of time. Poverty are so great, and so we constantly making visual choices. They make our time famine. Even worse, people were more job, flexibility, more pay, vacations and their workplace are happier with their jobs or more satisfied. In less likely to be you when you ask people. Would you rather have job ay and job aiming our salary or job b and job be, has more paid vacation unless our people always go for job a if you listen other episodes of happiness on You know that many of us equate happiness with having more money, which means that most We want to work more and more in order to
more and more, but that treat off of giving up time for money winds up, resulting in less and less time affluence, which often means less and less happiness. It's a pretty stupid stuff Reggie, but it's also when they actually has found. Many of us employ all the time we think Had prioritizing money in working life is a status symbol, so you think if we seem really busy, that's gonna confers higher status. One of the reasons that we don't focus on time, take paid vacation and instead focus a lot on working the connection between businesses This means that even people who have the money to buy a little free time often choose not to do so and some of the wealthiest people we ve studied people with two million dollars sitting in the bank are still focusing on money at the expense of time. Ashley's also found that, as we feel our days getting fuller and fuller, we don't have time for activities that can reduce our stress, like hanging out with friends
or making new. Once we have a paper showing that even justice, general privatisation of money over time means that were less likely to interact with appear so he's been eighteen percent less time. Interacting, and we know that these small social moments are some of the happiest. In our day. These results got me thinking the priest on money or status it because I'm focused on people. I wind up saying yes to too many things, because I dont want to disappoint anyone either MIKE too many things, because I dont want to disappoint anyone either. My colleagues, my students, or or even you, dear podcast, listener, but putting too stuff on my plate means becoming even more time. Famished, I'm seeing lots of people sure Am I really spending any quality time with any of them? I explained this jumble of feelings to actually I was surprised at my hero was experiencing pretty the same thing. Your tunneling you're, just literally it feels like survival, I'm having
stay the day. I just talked to classes and had two hours of office hours, all I'm thinking about What am I going to drink water when, as my next nap, I dont have the cognitive resources to also think about how my going to connect with a free hasn't been doing very well back in nineteen seventies, researchers. John Darley and Daniel Batson ran a test to see why people help others was being nice a function of a person's personality, or did it depend on the situation. To test these questions. They chose a population known for being do gooders students at Princeton, theological, seminary, Dolly and bad figured that students, training to be priests were probably prone to being nice. Other people, and so the researchers told these subjects
that they needed to deliver a public sermon about Jesus. His story of the good Samaritan in this parable, a man is being robbed and left unconscious on the street. Several people, including a priest, pass by without stopping but one person, the good Samaritan. Pity on the victim he helped a man up and even brought him to an end to eat and rest the Samaritan Jesus science is the guy we're all supposed to Emily he's the one that's going to Heaven. The salmon Students all knew the tale well so having if a sermon on that topic should have been mildly, stressful, but relatively straightforward, and that's when Darlene Bats and up the stakes. All of the students have had across campus to another building. To give the talk, one group was all that. Their sermon would happen later that day, so they had plenty of time to get there. A second group was told, that they'd make it in time, but only if they set off immediately, but a third group was told that they were already late.
We needed to spread over their right away That's when Darlene Batson had a surprise for the men they basically stage and experimental version of the good Samaritan story they hide, an actor to pretend to be injured on the ground? Who was walking a narrow part of the route, the stew would literally have to physically step over the actors writhing body in order to make it passed. So what did it time. Faint men due to the students willingness to help their results were really striking. Sixty three percent of the students who had time to spare stop to help the hurt. Stranger which honestly is already pretty bad. That means over a third of training priests basically stepped over guy lying her on the street. But what happened when subjects were in a mad hurry? Only ten percent of them stopped help. Ninety percent, the subjects completely ignored and obviously injured person on the street
because they were rushing to give a sermon about how Jesus said you should stop to help injured people on the street when we're time famished we become crappy people when people are thinking about the economic value of their time when their thinking about being hyper efficient with every second. This comes at a Last of our willingness to take time out of our day to help others to volunteer, to do something as simple as recycle a piece of scrap paper in the lab, something that takes ten. Dean seconds to do actually actually has experimental data to back up this last point she had students cut up sheets of paper for construction project. She told them, they could either throw their scraps away in a nearby trashcan or walk a few outside the room to recycling been in this first control condition. Forty one percent of the students opted to recycle, but We also tested another experimental group in which she first had subjects right
how many hours they expected to work after graduation and then Kalkhi their hourly period pay rate. What happened to you cycling in this experimental group, only twelve percent made the extra effort required. Policymakers should take note here. Have you ever considered that giving people more time will help them become better greener citizens? Are we really need to do is to solve time poverty so that people can have more cognitive resources and also just one more outward folk. Ass though it were not just simply trying to solve our own time scarcity and get from point a to point b in our lives or were able to have these self transcendent values and think about how can I use my time to benefit others, which raises a big question?
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I would get up her age with the kids or seven thirty. Then I will sit down in my study at nine o clock and leave until one p m, so sovereignty for straight hours of work, and that was it welcomes the typical day of time affluence Guru, Tom Hodgkin's in I was struck that Tom's day involve both less in more idling than I had expected if that makes sons of the lunch or which, go into the garden. Go for a walk sleep. My children come back from school with the dinner. I have a couple of beers. Read books in the evening: go to bed for the value only ten or eleven. That was great and there was a four hour working then offered to fry days off for trips and so on, so that was lovely Thomas everytime atheling, but he, some bum, who never gets anything done, he's an incredibly accomplish writer with six best selling books, and that does it even include his ukulele handbook
we're being an island. Actually, you can end up working quite hard. I mean I've got a lot of criticism from our reducing will. You should work why? How come you're so quite productive? And I think that's because you know you give itself lots of thinking time and you thought, having creative ideas, anything you want to carry them out and it takes them worked right. You make them happen, and so I asked Tom for some advice, practical tips that would actually work with my busy professor lifestyle, practical tips. Ok, please in it you take an hour for lunch. And talk to people. I sheepishly admitted to Tom that a pretty rarely take a lunch break that doesn't it of checking my email overwork, can drag you backers, take your lunch break a full, uninterrupted me a break with proper conversation already with seeming like the stuff of fantasy, but then Tom up the ante with an even more indulgent afternoon. Activity ideally have a short map of the lung. Show me not
as defined at time, between two and four running on completely data. To get caught depressed account thing come CAFE, tied, wake up again it for a two hour siesta, yet that basically sounds kind of impossible. For me, Tom was horrified when he learned that I had a flight later that day and then I plan to spend most of that travel time. Working troubled time is a gift in the old days. You couldn't work, we didn't have wifi and stuff. So it was a lovely obscene to get to gave out the window, but you could still do that. Planes, trains, automobiles in a sit in the back stairs the window. Unplug in I read a book. A real actual book and sleep and and and days, even walking along the road faith, division of self improving activity, because you put your headphones on an plugin, to some kind of inspirational podcast. What I mean? Ok, this is a good. Across listen to your one times, quaint, isn't to cancel your happiness. Lamp subscription, I seriously doubt TAT. Tom's point is just so
need to find some time when it feels like we're not working or desperately trying to cram things and give a gift yourself of that time is completely free of conserving could really have incalculable benefit, feel mental health. I was so thankful to hear Tom suggestions. But realistically I wasn't totally sure his advice was going to work for my level of time. Famine, I mean shoe for longer, email, free lunches, but napping for hours a day is not really practical for my situation and if being honest. It's also likely that I leave my laptop totally switched off on my next flight. I to worry that Tom's recommendations were a bit to advance for my level of time. Famine, I needed to start with some beginner tips. Sort of a time affluence for dummies kind of thing. So I turned to my other here. Actually, wetlands she's an academic just like me So I figured that she may have some more applicable advice as usual, I wasn't
how to get straight to the point zero. We're busy harbour. Professor ass, though, teaches about time that IRAN, my life, sometimes build very ironic as the. So, how are you actually putting this stuff into effect in your online? I'm trying and sometimes failing you. I feel like I'm grasping at straws, sometimes to try to try to keep it all together. It wasn't exactly the guru level of time mastery I was hoping for, but also admired Ashley's honesty, one thing that I did structurally in my life, as I cut my commute time to basically easier I pay a lot of money and rent, but I can walk to the office, so I'm not only buying myself time each and every day, but I can also spend their time in ways that are good for happiness like walking enjoying the scenery. I taken a lot of sunrises walking across the bridge to work, and I think that's one thing that I have done that I've noticed has dramatically
improved the quality of my life, so actually exchanges money in the form of rent for less time wasted on adult commute. She also used or other expenditures in the same way like housecleaning oh sure, delivery. It turns out that allocating more of your available budget to these services can substantially increase your time affluence. If you spend money in a typical month to outsource dislike task to others, therefore buying back some of your time or at least buying more positive moments, we see that that is a good predictor of happiness for people all across the income. Spectre, the richest people that we ve studied people living can add, or even slightly below the poverty line. Paying someone to do your dislike tasks cannot provide a much needed boost to your social life. When you outsource something you don't like, you not only get to spend more time with people you care about, but your less thinking about all these other things you have to do while you're socializing and so advise us out of some of this dread, this anticipation of having to come home from a social events on the weekend and have a million tourists to do before the work week starts and we ve
started. Looking at the effects of timesaving services, housecleaning someone a mole, your line on relationships, satisfaction, and we have some findings suggesting that couples who make a concerted effort to outsource in a typical month, experience greater relationship, satisfaction because their less negatively impacted by daily stressors and that effect on relationships. Satisfaction is just about as good as having up now who's a really good listener. All this sounds great, but I bet some of you were thinking. The same thing I was is this distress Gee. Everyone can use, or is this just for wealthy, Harvard professors who can afford a house cleaner, like this question alive? Isn't this just for rich people? Most of us listening at least, are lucky enough to have some discretionary income at our disposal. So then we want to start thinking while five, a hunter
hours a month, two hundred dollars a month, three hundred dollars a month. How can I start thinking about spending that money in a way that might best promote my happiness, and there are small things that we can all do around the margins. One example be higher the neighbors kid to mow your one that might not cost very much money. Getting take. Take out can be way of saving time, but, interestingly, we often dont think about take out in that way. So weeks show in some of our studies that some of the happiness benefit of these timesaving purchases that we make on a regular basis. Some of that benefit is actually from just thinking that your saving time and then spending that time. In a more d, where it way, so you could, even if you dont, want to change the way that you're spending sit down and look at your purchases that you make in a typical month and say hey when I made that take up her, is actually was saving time that I wasn't spending on cooking? What did I do at that time and next week, when I buy that fast food? Could I
spending that time it would have spent cooking in a better way. So part of the benefit is just for moving negative task that you dont, like and part of the benefit of timesaving, is being more deliberate with the free time that you ve, gained the idea of being more deliberate with how we think about our time is critical. Remember time off It isn't objective amount of free time. You have the actual number of open boxing, your calendar. It's your subjective sense that you have some free time. And that means you can do a lot to boost your sense of time affluence, even if, in quality. You care really open up that much actual free time. It's just the sense of giving yourself a bit of a break that makes all the difference even if the amount of time you actually gained a small eyes, this first hand in my happiness class, when I first introduced by you, students to the concept of time athletes with hard core is demanding. Extracurricular is an intense social life, yell students feeling credibly time, famished pretty much all the time
so I decided to give them a booster shot of time affluence surprising them with a cancelled class. One spring day, students came to light expecting to be in class for an hour in fifteen minutes, but when they arrived, my teacher assistance were handing out fires explaining that, I was giving students a bit of time afterwards by cancelling class that day the students were ecstatic. They finally had a bit of free time, some even so, screaming and jumping up and down others. Just and incredibly relieved one one and even burst into tears, announcing it was the first free our she's had also master students. Joy demonstrates this important feature of time affluence. It doesn't take all that much feel incredibly good. My ear These were only given an hour in fifteen minutes free, but at the time it felt like years Many of them even use that free our to do something really fun. They hung out with everybody's or went for a short hike, which was one of them important features of using our time, athletes well in the rear
cases when we get free time, we need to use it wisely. This is something I really struggle web. Because I do get little glass of free time confetti here and there there are lots of back to changes as an academic meetings, cancel talk, wrap up earlier than predicted appointments with people who never show I usually use those free moments to do a quick social media check or dig into my email, but actually argues that I should play to use those little time when falls a lot more effectively. How come you start claiming back some of these when balls truly think about them in this more deliberate way, so that the small pockets of time that we do receive in our everyday lives feel more like a game and therefore might be more likely to increase our happiness. Have you done this in your own life or other specific tips? You you
when you have a meeting, cancel their have a small time windfall here. So I actually for have started to keep a time when far less of, if I have small pockets of five minutes in ten minutes, what are some life things not work, it's, not emails. Those will always be there, but some small, positive life things that I can do with those windfalls send a letter. Gratitude call my mom reach out to a friend from grad school. I haven't talked to in a while and I write those in my agenda and I dont always get to all of them, but I do get to some of them and I think that doing this research has made me a little bit more. Strategic about not squandering the small moments that all of us find ourselves with on a daily basis. Making this episode hasn't completely cured my sense of time famine, but it has helped a lot I've started my own time windfall best. I want to connect more with friends I haven't seen in awhile and taken opportunities to express gratitude to the people I care about. I also
take time to be more mindful and so, try to use some of those free fifteen minute blogs for a quick meditation in some deep breaths and in honour of time I promised to spend at least a few minutes gazing out the window on my next life, but most of all, taking? This episode has caused me to realise that are not helping the people I care about by packing my schedule to the brim hearing this This has caused me to reflect on the net. In fact, my time famine is having on the people I care about most it also made me worry about the person I can become if I dont carve out a bit more free time, so happiness lab listeners, making a public commitment to all of you that I plan to prioritize my own time at once, and I hope you will do. As I said before, You don't need to unsubscribe from your favorite podcast seriously. Don't do that even just making the most of small time windfalls can bump your mood and maybe Just maybe might even
you a better person the happiness lab is currently and produced by Ryan Daily. Our original music was composed by Zachary Silver, the dish, scoring mixing in mastering by Evan Viola, PETE, not and also help introduction Joseph Friedman check our facts: and our editing was done by Sophie Crane Mckibben special thanks to held about cars, big Liore, Heather, fame, Julia Barton, Maggie Taylor, Maya caning Jacob Iceberg and my agent spend Davis fabulous lab. Is brought to you by Pushkin industries and me lorries answers.
Transcript generated on 2021-01-05.