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fine trusted and flexible sitters to help manage your family's ever changing schedule cared outcome can even help you out with housekeepers dogwalkers senior caregivers and more so you can find care for all your love and one hundred percent of caregivers who use care dot. Com have been background, checked with care check. A key first up and hiring confidently to get the help you to make it all work sign up now and find a great sitter? It care dot com, welcome to the show I'm Jordan Harbinger and I'm here with my producer, Jason to Philip The is one of those Black box topics that sometimes doesn't even look like his skill. Are you born with it? Can you cultivated why are some people so much more creative than others? What is being created? mean in the first place, while by Three Brown not only decided to tackle these questions for his book, an audience of one and issue the unmistakable creative he was forced

tackle them, as he struggled himself to fit. The mould of society's expectations today will see why expressing your creativity on a regular basis, even done without the intention of reaching an audience or of being commercially successful can be incredibly beneficial to every area of your life will also cover some encouraging social science. Research which shows that being creative can act, really make you happier help. You we're from trauma and increase productivity. Of course, will also dive into some practical ways. You can cultivate your own creativity even Anders especially if you're the type of person who thinks you don't have any to begin with, our I sure Sweeney, Ralph, so audience of one. I gotta admit. If I'm creating something I don't want an audience of wine. Initially right, that's a little depressing. What's goin on here, you're right, it is an incredibly counter, intuitive method,

particularly when we live in a world where every aspect of our humanity is quantified. We know how many friends we have on Facebook. You nominee likes you get on every post. You know how many followers you have on Twitter, you, how many hearts you get every time you posted Instagram, but when you look at really really successful creative people throughout history, one of the interesting in that emerge was that they made themselves the number one priority in their work. They made creating great work. The priority and an audience of millions, paradoxically, was the by product of focusing on an audience of one now when we say creating for not into one we're, not saying create something, that's absolutely lousy. That does deserve an audience. That's not worthy of an audience is attention. I think that so often we try really hard to get somebody's attention and I think the question we should be asking instead of how do I get somebody's attention is how do we create something that worthy of somebody's attention? I think you're a fantastic example of that. The fact that you were able to start there

so in a very short amount of time to get a really substantial listener, based, partly because of the fact that you have already demonstrated the fact that your worthy of peoples a tenth of people's attention for the past ten years. So one of my favorite stories that we open the book with was the story of daft punk. Now a lot of people made another there's no way in Hell. You would probably recognise the two members of daft punk. If they were walking the street other wherever the the robot the robots, then here's the interesting thing in a culture that allows us to. Basically, put our lives on display and had this very artificial census library, where people who were are famous for being famous really strange that somebody as they become more and more successful, would go out of their way to make themselves more. More anonymous, and I think really is summed up why something they said you don't need to have your picture on the cover of magazines to make great music at the summit. So that when in this documentary about that the two members of deaf punk,

They were being courted by executives, aversion records, the executive shut up to take him to dinner and a limousine, and they we want to be seen getting into the limousine, we'll see you at the restaurant for dinner and they caught the subway while but The idea of an audience of one is not like. I said too pretty something of low quality that doesn't does a return but rather to focus on creating something that is so good that people can help it pay attention to. Another example is over Winfrey out at the very beginning of her career, at the time when Oprah started there are about three daytime talk shows that were really kind of the most popular ones. One was Oprah, the other was Donoghue and if I remember correctly, the third one was Jerry spent. And, of course anybody listen listening this nose. The jury Springer was pretty much. The epitome of daytime TB trash you old enough to remember when he was really smart and insightful and then went Oh, I'm getting ratings the other way of getting killed because nobody wants smart people. They want dumb stuff in so

He switched what you know, what I'm probably old enough. I'm problem I I pray you never saw yeah. Aren't you talking, I used to Nigeria Springer with my mom, the and we'll get it we get into this a little later. Maybe I'm taken assented urgent but like he is Do this thing, you know how he had the final thought ways like take care of yourselves and each other member. That thing he does. the aim of the shell and key. To be really smart. I think he ran for governor or something like that and He was just a really smart enough, four guy and then I think why show that he had and somebody's when I hear this this incorrect me here, but one or two shows he had some some issue. a downright, and they in those shows got crazy ratings it at the news, or maybe it one Geraldo got hit with a chair because of the white supremacist that he had on the show, and then that shows started getting all these people watching it. He was like people don't want, they don't want frickin Charlie rose. They dont want

king, they want professional wrestling but its posing as it show, and so he made the switch. Consciously which, in a way, sort of like cool, know your audience, but is also a sort of sad right, like hey, there's no market for smart people, you're gonna make more money. If you like here's the knife do so thing with the knife right well in that case, what it really is. He cater to decide of sensationalism weigh up sensationalism drives clicks, enables you just look at our news right now and it's many sensationalist, but sensationalism is not a viable long term strategy you can get temporary attention was sensationalism and Oprah, despite the fact that she was not able to compete in the ratings, vowed tat, she would not stooped down to that level and instead elevated herself out of trash tv, and I think the results kind of speak for themselves. Now,

what has happened, here's the thing if you cater exclusive to an audience and costly trying to get their tender. Let's say, for example, that you see a book on the New York Times. Pesaro is, and you basically go through that you outlined at your extracted as a formula and then you try to create that book based on everything that you read about it, you're not going to end up writing a New York Times vessel, because all you ve created a pale imitation of something that already exist, and yet that is the sort of default way in which we ve been taught to do creative work for the last ten years because of the fact that everybody else's works on display so and take something interview based podcast right, which in the last two to three years, I'm familiar very, very popular and at the same time, if you look through the item stores, often you can feel as if you're just looking at the same show or listening to the same show with the same people over and over again being asked the same, exact questions. Nobody has said: yell I'm gonna do interviews, but I'm bring a different format to I'm gonna. Try to test the did the sort of a staff,

practice and challenges. So, for example, one thing I want to they to do, because I don't have the skills to do it is, I think, an interview be really interesting. If somebody would not just interview a guest but interview, other people in their lives and tell the story you're, multiple lenses, that takes a whole different skill set, but it also would make you stand out then doing a standard interviewed by show of the thing is that you could try to cater to an audience and you could try to please them, and you can end up with bring down your work and when you don't please them, then you're stuck with something. You don't like an you fail, whereas maybe your work needs with a handful of people are the right people, but at least you ve created something that your proposal, drawn and we can get a tactical stuff. What I know we will, but I think that what is and as a result of the fact that were obsessed with outcomes is that something that should bring a great deal of joy to our life, expressing our creativity, making things has ended up, bringing a great deal of good,

trust to our life. I should know that I have spent your moments of this entire book watch where I feel like I measured my self esteem, in book sales in podcast downloads and email subscribers and that's it. Ludicrous. But it's a really hard thing to do to separate your effort from the results of your work. But the effort is the one it's in your control, the results are very much not in your control I like the idea of control and I want to get back into that in a second first though I'm here is how you got interested in this and many at some point. You must have had a ninety five and thought to Hell with this. I'm not cut out for this war How I got into this is very much acted at all. I think that what interested in is that, if you listen to many of the stories of people who become entrepreneurs or many of people who run in the same circles, that you and I do it hey. I was successful at my amazing corporate job as a lawyer and executive, where I made six figures and I left it all in search of meaning and purpose, and because I was dissatisfied now, no discredited

people putting those people have been guest on my show, their probing gas than yours, and many of them are friends, I'm the exact opposite of that part of wine Here is because I was fired from almost every real job that I ever had. So it was more like a. How did it do it, how it as it was like? Will this isn't working at all? Clearly, I need to try something different and, but I did all along the side of a day, job that I knew that I was gonna leave. Eventually, I kind of the re last day job I had. I went into the job with one foot in the door. My boss knew it, and so he asked hired me to work part time, and my job was basically to be the social media strategies for online travel company, and my first project was to build a blog really convenient, considering I had a podcast wars, interviewing bloggers like us, the entire blog with people that I had been reviewing, saw the basically my side project actually helped my day job. I think that the four people Wendy jobs. I want to share one piece of advice that I thought was really really spot on and it helped

we think about it. A lot- and I think this is really valuable Arab spoke with us the name, Diana Valentine who was a coach, and she talked about a bunch of different things, and she said you should treat your day job as the first angel investor in your business or your site, which is great because when you have a day, job you're able to do a lot of things without the pressure of figure out. How am I going to make a living off this thing? So when I, and the pod guess where the first two years, I wasn't really thinking much about anything other than the fact that I was enjoying this project and I wanted to keep getting better and better and interviewer. I didn't have the pressure of figuring out. Ok, how do I use this thing to live off of it and, as a result, I had a great deal of freedom, which I think is a big difference a new there's, gonna, be kind to judge who wrote a number of different books and current is an executive discovery. Channel he's a gm there and prior to that, he worked or else, and he wrote novels alongside of this and his novels had become so popular that they were even option for movies and

actually said that he thinks that not making his his way of making a living. It was one of the best decision ever made because he said he thinks it that's. Why he's been more successful because of the fact that he now more rights for his audience. He never caters to two other but he's not stuck under this pressure of how they can survive off this thing and who, as a result, I think there's a free flowing self expression and it's interesting, even when his third book out option for a movie, he still decided to quit his job, he'd Saudis. I don't feel that vision Dharuma he's like my passion, but I feel that my dharmu to be in business and a deal what kind of speak for themselves. So I think that that we tend to underestimate the value of this whole idea, the naughty into one. You're. What to the Jordan Harbinger show with our guest Sweeney Rau, we'll be right back thank listening in supporting the show to learn more, about our sponsors and get links to all the great discounts. You just heard visit Jordan, harbinger dot com, slash deals if you like some tips on how

subscribe to the show just go to Jordan, harbinger dot com, slash subscribe, to our show, with Sweeney Rau I know social science and research show that being creative I'll make you happy, I can help you recover from trauma and increase productivity, and I want to get into that in a little bit as well. You bring up the example of David Bowe YE not playing to the gallery, we have playing for himself. That's, kind of the audience of one archetype here and I'm wondering: how do we avoid trying no other people's expectations, because, of course, when I, started the Jordan Harbinger Show. I was doing something already had a clear vision of what my creative output would look like, but I think when summons knew their often

really focused on what's trending? What's popular? What's gonna make me money? What's gonna get me, followers was gonna, get me an audience and that you are saying is: is backwards were creating for other people's expectations that that is incredibly backwards, one because trends dont last: ok, you can't build a career by being a one hit, wonder you- and I are perfect examples of the fact that our bodies of work don't exist because we followed and there we happen to be doing this long before it became trendy- were just right now, the benefit years of a very ridiculously long, had start on what is currently a trap. So everything The trend eventually comes to an end at some point and for anybody who hasn't read it. I highly recommend Ryan Holidays, perennial seller, because it's it's really about this idea of creating work. That is timeless. That stands the test of time. Anybody can get attention for a moment in time, but if you want to keep

people's attention, and you want to make an impression on the person is consumed your art for the rest of their lives. Then you have to create something: that's gonna be timeless and relevant throughout history, and that requires a very different approach that requires creating something. That's incredibly good, that take lot of practice and a lot of work and that's not about her eyes, that's about the effort that you put into that's about the time, energy and effort that you invest into this thing that you're doing so Europe is a perfect example? Is I mean I don't know how many episodes of the other show that you did prior to this, but that was basically plant. the seeds if somebody expected to start upon gas, but didn't have your back and expected to get your results that you got from starting. The drone harbinger show. That would be a very unrealistic expectations and they're trying to do something that they have very little control over the idea.

That you want to fulfil. Other people's expectations when it comes to your art is not only a recipe for profound is a profound disappointment, its ludicrous, because how can you control the way that somebody responds to what you ve done. It virtually impossible. We both we're talking earlier about the fact that we both gotten star. Reviews of our shows are one started view here, and why we gonna do say: oh am. I gonna really consider the feedback of this one to starve you out of the four hundred five out of you. Probably not yet reacted wanting quit straining we're done overdone words over, but the thing It's ok, I'm going to try to change my show based on this one guys opinion who I dont know, and so the couple things think about yourself. Gooden once said that anonymous feedback from strangers Absolutely no relationship with will cause me to do nothing but I'd, which is he doesn't have comments on his walk, but an end it so true and the other thing he once said. He said I'd, never known an author who said I've read all the

STAR reviews of my book- I've taken a feedback to heart, I've incorporated it and how much better writer now is This idea of trying to fulfil other people's expectations is a it's a losing prophecy like there's no way your job is to make something and make something for the audience intended for, because the people love what you do will go out of their way to tell you the people who die well, shit on your work and then fell. Go find somebody else's work to shut on yeah, exactly, I think, and plus even people, even if people are not being deliberately aggressive to you because you're on the internet and they can get away with it and there's other motivations there. I think a lot people, even if there really to give their honest opinion. It doesnt matter because so many people out there consuming content that pretty there's something for pretty much everything, and if you don't believe me look at sea with a super popular Instagram

or ridiculously popular, even podcast, where you go, how who is listening to this? garbage. Any answer is like London thousands of people yeah billions of people and some of them popular stuff online is also, unfortunately, some of the dumbest lowbrow stuff. So if you think I'm not smart enough to do this. I don't have enough of a clever creative street to do this, just for them that some of those popular things online no names mentioned are some of the most basic regurgitating stuff, so you're doing by the mad. Congratulations, you already had it again. I think that it is a choice. Do you wanna catered? the lowest common denominator, or do you want to create something that your proud of? Because I don't necessarily think those two things can coexist now? I agree with you. I agree with you I think that there's a lot unless there's a few,

people. I know that they came to the lowest common denominator and that's cause. That's where thereat they just happen to beat a king of that domain, and I think it must be really nice to put some dumb quote, we are standing on a beach look. the water on Instagram and you're like this is great, and then a bunch of likes from seventeen year olds in your dislike? I'm awesome at this brain have no inkling that maybe you're. You should write the bar little getting it doesn't matter cause you're getting so much validation like I. admit I'm a little jealous of those people. Sometimes I want to come So I said this in our conversation I had with Daniel report a few weeks ago. I said that we have confused attention with affection and we ve confused validation in that no form of hearts and likes and whatever vanity metric your social platform of choice uses. We ve conflated that with real value. When it's not I think that what you do here on the shell, the conversation that you have our former valuable to people, then you posting a pitcher of you and a guest sitting together. Microphone, of course

course like it's. I dont use your reports the photo I dont think people would miss the photos if they were gone. I think they would absolutely miss you if you are well that's how we rebuilt our fan base when arson but when I to restart the shell from scratch. This actually illustrates your point perfectly well to restart the show, from scratch. I didn't have asked to our emails, I didn't have access to our social media accounts. I didn't have a chance to say goodbye to the audience and the other feed I D. Never To do anything. I just got locked out of everything. There was no like negotiation. It was a very it was actually just an aggressive sort of mood which is why I'm suing my former business partners they're getting sued by a bunch of people because of behaviour like that and so I thought I am screwed- I've gotta start from scratch. I've gotta stop. from the very beginning. What's going yeah, but I don't have the social media accounts and what happened was everyone moved over because they were like what the hell happened at the show, I mean it find Jordan and then it was really easy to find the Jordan Harbinger Show and everybody came back pretty much

that was kind of amazing and the rest that happened was exactly what you're saying no he missed the photo, on social media nobody cared about Twitter. They just here about what the heck happened to my one of my favorite podcast, and so they looked for it is otherwise they had just missed the social media. They would have replaced it. Something else or it would have been of it actually would have been a faster sorted turnaround site. Because it would have just stopped one day and everyone what where's my favorite photo on Instagram, but nobody does that they're. Looking for more the idea Social media is. This important is ludicrous. It's one of the most disposable parts of of many of our creative lives and creative businesses. I tell you port wrote a really interesting posed to couple valley, ago, where he sat of all that the sort of billion dollar accompany said. He said Facebook is the most dispensable one of all and the reason being he said I think about it- is that if

Amazon disappeared from your life. It would be fairly inconvenient right, like a kind of annoying. Will you get a lot of stuff if apple disappeared from your life we'd be pretty annoying, for most of us were dialects, an apple users if Google disappeared freely life would be very complicated. If Facebook disappeared from your life, it would be like. Ok, you know what I mean. I know how to get in touch with you. I need to get in touch with not the end of the world. Like I don't think your life would be significantly worse. If one day you woke up and Facebook was out of business, I think that I would save a lot of time you and everybody else listening to myself included exactly makes that does make sense here: you're, you're, absolutely right and Miranda were honest, here I do want to get back, The idea in the question which Why is creating for yourself more likely to be successful in getting a huge audience counter intuitively than trying to way to the audiences expectations in the first place. I think that when,

Look at the idea of creating for yourself the biggest thing that we're talking about here is what you control. Ah, you control your actions. You control your behavior. You control your effort, you control, whether you decide to shop or not and I'll give you an example from my own life some time in two thousand thirteen. I came to the conclusion that probably I was never gonna get a book deal that it had been long enough that I've been trying that nobody was coming to knock at my door to Hell with it, and I if you join Psmith for them, mystical, creative or what was not then unmistakable creative, but at the time by cost of em- and he told me about this idea of running a thousand words day and are not ok, you know what I can do that I can do that. Whether a publisher pays me to do it I can do that. Whether anyone it wants to read my writing or not, I can do that and I can do it everyday, install something I do to this day. So I started doing it. I did it for six months. in those six months. I self published a book that big Wall Street Journal bestseller through a series of frigate, one sentences.

I sold out an event and we point to the seeds for what would become unmistakable creative. I didn't stop. Writing a thousand words it if not point four Nobody was ready to offer me a book. The old, despite having a self published book that became a Wall Street journal bizarre Two years later, after continuing to read and were the day every to it those every week. I suppose you know article, I mean an editor penguin found something that I wrote. I couldn't have controls doing that the one party that I controlled is the fact that I showed up and I kept putting in the work and, as a result, I also got better it stopped being just going through the motions of writing a thousand words a day, but bit by bit my practice became much more deliberate that went from okay. I can hit one thousand Wednesday how about let's see if we can make some of it good, and with that I got better and better. I became much clearer as a writer, I became much more Crispin articulate my ideas better and the best part of it was that, because of the fact that it would not only with something I controlled, it was incredibly clear goal it

to a lot of flow and I would be in the zone and I could do it for hours on end and I would feel happy because I'd not only committed honoured the commitments made to myself. Ah, I can did something that was in my control and I get to experience the joy of the creative process- and I wasn't doing that for anybody was never fur, and I hear thing I finished to most of the public are not currently have a contract further. When I still look up another thousand words this morning, why would I do that if the only intention the OIE benefit from it was external results. They re no reason to do that everyday, whereas I found that that processes. an instrumental to a number of different things? I can basically say that every single positive thing that is happened in my life since started, that habit is probably the result about habit because of what are known as Keystone habits in the fact that one habit creates a ripple effect and leads to all these other ones. I think it's because of that habit, I'm a much more added reader. Then I was before I read

the books everywhere now- and I think I it's largely do that- habit, because realized. I wanted to be about a writer and I rose. The waiter become about a writer was to read good writing, and so I read TAT and I enjoy reading it taught me how to manage my attention, so I got all these benefits from it that I would never expected from one simple habit, and- and the thing is that so much of that is in your control, so much of each other, example, like you said, you were coming social media. The fact that you didn't have access officer. The one thing you could do you could say you know what is in my control here is the ability to get to work and to start producing a kick aspect asked again, because I know how to do. that and social media. No social media assets are no assets of the one thing that is in my control and error this actually very recently. I was my most recent medium pieces it. If you want to build an audience, you should focus on mastery. Instead of metrics I'm not saying that metrics are an important if Europe

a business. Metrics are important if you dont measure how much money or making in spending you're gonna go bankrupt, but there's a fine line. People often get so obsessed with metrics that they do stupid things. like they spend all day, checking their ghoul analytics or website traffic, but that doesn't make your traffic to go. Does that's uploads can cause your traffic to go out of that sort. I've been doing ok, You mean cooking reload on my website, my podcast hosting watching it triptych upwards. Every fifteen minutes is not how increase metallic gas traffic no it's, not a guy's. Monsieur Pike S, traffic, ok, one! Let us be honest. Itunes is like this black box that mean Itunes is like the Bermuda triangle, its apple podcast now excuse yeah, yeah yeah. Well, because it out It's a bermuda triangle of information. They don't want to hear anything even with all those who have put our shows on their platform, but that's all, there s a whole rant- show that no one really wants to hear right now rapidly, but there's a thing so that

right, refreshing your analytics on your website is not going to cause your traffic gulp. What's gonna cause your traffic to go up is to go right, something that's worth reading and that in your control, you can do that every single day James clears another, for example, this most of the year listeners, probably already know James clear as if not deafening worth checking out. He was on the show a couple of times he he's on that they show as well with atomic habits, yeah and but he knows me he's them he's late. If you look at what he's done, our member when I asked Uncle James Clause readership, isn't that hundreds of thousands of subscribers- and he told me he basically decided that he would write to articles weak. that was that was that the solution to his hundreds of thousands of discoveries- and he said, he's That's! The one thing that was in his control thing is if you're doing eight peace is a weak, are a pieces among you, don't need all of them to be amazing. One of them could be incredible and compensate for how bad the rest of them

and all the research shows us as well so Adam Grant. You probably also has been a guest here. He's talked about the fact that an original she said you it wasn't the what would actually led to the highest quality of creative output was the highest volume of creative but an that makes complete sense if you think about it, because of your producing a high volume of creative output, you're, getting a lot of opportunities to practice your craft and get better at it, and the other thing that happened when you do that is it takes the pressure off of you for everything to be good. So if I'm writing a thousand words everyday, seven thousand words, we I need a thousand of them. seven thousand words a week to be used usable imagine I read a book. This fifty thousand words and I write a thousand words a day all year. Three hundred sixty five thousand words Not a lot of it has to be good just enough to get into books and as a result of the fact that I'm doing it so consistently Inevitably some of it is going to be high quality, and so, if you focus on

mastery instead of metrics, and instead of looking at your PA gas download what we'd be better a better use of your time. In my opinion- and this is something it would be to go back and to listen to your episodes and his ok. What did I do well in this episode? What did I do poorly and what could I have done better? What questions? Should I ask that I should have I do what our questions? I should have asked that I didn't and it's amazing to me how much insight that that will give you into just getting to be a better interview, and I'm still doing this. After ten years there period re used to edit my own interviews. I actually thought that was one of the biggest blessings in disguise ever because here goes to all the sort of email, efficiency stuff. But the fact that I was at, and editing mountain areas force me to go back and listen to every single thing that I did and as a result

I was learning a ton about my own interview process. That's it and all those things are in your control. I can't control whether a three hundred thousand people download a particular episode impact. Yes, working control is, do I put the most amount of effort into creating the most kick ass conversation that I possibly can, so you have no control over how many people are going to listen to this particular episode or if they ve been chosen to stop playing at this point what you do have control over the questions that you asked me and the effort they have put into preparing for this one of the things that you- and I both do. I know for a fact, as I feel that your intake form is. We read everybody's books before we interview them so that we can had insightful conversations that in your control, refreshing you're, stupid analytics, complete wasted. it's not that you shouldn't know them, but I think that you shouldn't put as much time into them as most people. Yours Do the Jordan Harbinger show with our guest Sweeney Rau, we'll be right back after this,

for listening in supporting the show. Your support of our advertisers is what keeps us on the air into learn more and Thanks to all the great discounts you just heard visit Jordan, harbinger dot com, slash deals in Dover get the work sheet for today's episode. That link is in the show notes at Jordan, Harbinger Doug GUM, Slash, podcast enough conclusion of our interview with Sweeney Rau. We do have outcome dependency, which is a recipe for disappointment, Ryan Holidays talked about. This is well when we try to control how our work his receives, you know we. We just set ourselves up for disappointment because, if we're like, while this book is, if he told me this personally ducas out like while I only wanted to a book, if I'm gonna hit near hygiene is like you'll sellen of copies to New York Times, but they just editorial lies the list which they do, which thereby down we're not supposed to do and just go Well, we have too many

of how books and was right now towards gonna knock off this Jordan Harbinger Guy or like I don't like the word harbinger, so I M not remove him. However, that list works. You don't even know if they don't tell anyone and they an editorial lies the list and they can edit you right out, and that's happened of friends of mine who sold ton tons of books there just like now we don't like this book. It's about public speaking, we're gonna cut it yeah. I mean even with me in this book is a perfect example right. So I heard a really high and marketing firm to help with the launch it had a phenomenal job doing they'd they delivered everything that they said they would, but there's a lot of things that didn't turn out the way that they needed to refer for the book even come close to like with your. We crossed the thousand copy threshold just a few days. the girl and I was like ok. You know what I think. It's time I appreciate as, for example, a lot of friends who interviewed before their podcast couldn't do it, though, with a weak the book came out and of course, that means that I'm not gonna sell the same volume of sales that I could. If every bit of me,

that I had done had dropped at the same time gathered there. Our email is thanks to a switch to entrepreneurs. caused us problems where we're seeing lower open rates. Those are things that you can't control I remember I was driving myself crazy and I, finally just you know- maybe left mentally and said you know what what what is done is done nothing but caused me unhappiness and the entire message. Look is the opposite of this, and I remember logging into Amazon's author central thing. Ok, you know what we moved forty to fifty copies this we clearly not gonna, make dinner times. That's all I ask is that ship assailed? I think what a much more interested in now is. I create a perennial seller, something within the last and its thinking. How do I sell a million copies as soon as possible? I like how do I ensure that this book keeps telling every week, so it becomes something that people want to keep reading long after it and how do I start playing the long aims? The shift really is making your shift to the on game, which is its addressing this we're coming full circle to something that we're talking about a very big

my conversation, but a woman who is a venture capitalist president of a white terminator. He tells founders that the biggest competitor that you have as a founder, which is just as relevant here. Even if Europe doing aside hustle you greater project is a long term view and he defined from view as ten years now, what happens as most people when it comes to the world of startups, because they see that the sort of unicorns in the face books of the world what ever they think, I'm an idiot thing for a year may be three. So my first book become a millionaire and then go to whenever does tell my cash on the beach or go bein a BBC or whatever it is and you see the same thing with with online products which are most people who start podcast blogs, whatever the attrition rate is really really they stop after about ninety days, I think I remember me, said he sang once ninety days is about the point at which most people quit and had a friend who contacted me yesterday, and he was looking at starting upon chestnut

well I'll, give you one simple piece of advice as that of Europe. we spend at least you're doing this, don't start it yeah me. My bit of advice is, if you care if any one listens, you're totally comfortable doing it only for yourself literally wires proves your whole point right. At my whole point, do it for yourself and, if you're comfortable with I'm listening than do it. The problem is people go. I am and then secretly, though there like refreshing that lives in hosting. Oh, I I early looked at my Amazon rankings when we all my friends are two thousand books. I gotta know I. To be honest. I didn't check for the first two weeks would like I'd like this is just a recipe for anxiety and I find last night. You may editor, I said where we, as you said we just crossed eleven hundred and most traditional publish books, don't sell more than a thousand copies. So I'd like a call. You know what we hit the first thousand copies and and what we're gonna play the long game, I'm gonna I'm gonna basically cater to the people who really love my work, and I want to focus on new. Let me move

What were you I mean it's not like a publishers, wet dream, but who cares I'd rather have a book that selling hundreds copies every week a year from now, then a book, that's all several thousand copies of the beginning- the launch and hardly cells any ever yet get that makes sense. Ok, so making the shift. Is diversifying the number of things we derive, meaning from not leaning on selling that certain number of copies not try to be I'm an item, top fifty show our wait a minute that was only for a day. I hate podcasting. Now is exactly right. Ok, here's a everything you when it comes two reviews and rankings in and everything we're talking about? All those things fluctuate and all of them are in permanent. So today's viral sensation is an afterthought tomorrow. You remember any the the videos on Youtube went viral last week, gaff course not now exactly and you Polly won't remember them a year from now, because they are not relevant, but there's a good chance that you.

Amber a book that had a really big impression on you that a friend shared with you, because it remained timeless end, think that that was wanting. Also we aim for with unmistakable creative is. It make the conversation this time. It is possible to say that get air view that it was recorded for five years ago as a best I'm on Friday and people want to listen to it because it still relevant. We made the content timeless and I think that we tend to get caught up in things like I said, these things are not only out of control, but that almost all impermanent, I know from having hit the Wall Street Journal vessel less the buzz from having some sort of moment in the spotlight is incredibly temporary. It doesn't asked not only that if that's all you're about you, be severely disappointed, because for every person you see, it

at spotlight, whether it somebody who wins a Grammy award for their music, album, whether it somebody who wins and Oscar for the film that they were in or whether, as an author who hates near Times DES asked for that one moment in the spotlight, their spending hundreds of hours, basically doing labour, ah actors than hundreds of days on set, so that people can watch their movie for two hours in a theater. I spent two years writing a book people going to spend two days reading it that's kind of how it goes with all these things. That's where your meaning is coming from and you're sort of joy. Is you only only putting yourself in a position to be potentially very disappointed, because the fact that on control that but also are putting yourself in a position where the thing that you A derive joy from is incredibly temporary and the work itself something that you can actually derive joy from on a daily basis. Should it used to do without it yeah that definite It creates a long term. Level of happiness is required to

through the hard times to get through the down times. There aren't fun, and every He has downtime man like. I was super stress two weeks ago about the book not selling as many copies. I want my business partner. I just parted ways on unrelated terms, I am a? U and I've been through so much India's this year in an end that stressful that super stressful, especially when I invested a lot of money in a book marketing firm, Then I finally came to the realisation that you want it it's time for me to surrender and let us go and I'm gonna play the long term, and that's that's what I'm gonna do this and so You remind me of something: that's are probably mutual friend Remit said remedy to said a while ago and I dont know if he got this from someone else. He said the world wants you to be vanilla and then once you get there, the market punishes you for it. Something like that. So basically when your catering other people's expectations or you're trying to get to do so, for some certain metric. You really do going back to what we were talking about with the lowest common denominator, make yourself vanilla

Then you get there and everyone goes there's nothing special about this person. You know you end up really pigeonholed an eye I wonder if some of the people that you and I have discussed off line are gonna run. into that wall right where they just end up being, their net marketer, who has a Youtube, show number seven hundred and fifty a year. I did it's happening already. I think that light. though, the way it was when blogs first started were seeing with podcasting of army creation, especially when you ve democratized creativity. Everybody has the ability to create eventually wolsey attrition. I know this because during my book launch there were people I emailed who I'd been on their part just before and he's really big platforms who have done really respectable things have great buys work. I gotta know reveals back saying the pot gases on temporary hiatus and what I mean as was ok. I think you guys just gotten a wake up, call that this is not as easy as it seems yeah. I think I think that the very

I think that's a lot of us. Unfortunately, people are selling this dream, but that's a whole mother ran right that people are selling this online. You can be central. the internet, celebrity or something I got an that's. That's a whole different industry. This problem it'll. So there there's, there's also a conflict of interest that people need to think about. Where you're getting your advice from notice that all the people who on these ran about the fact that everybody should start a podcast. Many of them also happened to sell courses. I added I guessed right yet can't be that, I personally look: I'm I'm happy to help people if they want to start a pod gas, but I will also be the first one to say if you were doing it as you feel like you have to have it because you have a book. You should not have one yeah exactly It's the same same thing with writing a book right is that if you think that you should do this thing, because it's gonna make you rich and famous, and hence its has one whatever you're gonna be

for severe disappointment, because if it doesn't mean that expectation, you're gonna feel as if the whole thing was a wasted effort, so that would be like me saying that it wasn't worth writing an audience of one just because I didn't have the nearer times my socialist, like thing about how much I deny myself the joy that could come from the fact hey. You know what I've accomplished, something that is worth being proud of, just because it's not times, bestseller that I didn't hit the list. I shouldn't downplay that, or you know, say: ok. Well, that's you! only way. This is gonna be meaningful to me, because that's just a recipe for disappointment. Yeah, I agree with you there. I think people sit do set themselves. Up for failure, and we see that even if you already successful, and you have to start again at some point. You really do the creative process, you can't just rely on the external reward and dovetails nicely with the idea that I think a lot of people want to turn their creative outlet into.

Their job into a profession when it's like nobody's comfortable being a hobbyist anymore. It's like some somehow its it's sort of frowned. There's a stigma to being somebody, who's got a hobby, everybody make it their job, there's no more. Have you ever heard anybody even say hobby anymore. I think the new word is side hustling after monetize it otherwise you're going. Absolutely its. We actually open the book with an excerpt from an article by carry batten who it was a writer your times and then you can wait this up in the show notes, but at its height the artist way in an age of self promotion, and said exactly ass, she said you know. If you have a nice voice, you have to start upon. Just if you have a subjective, your interest and you must start a newsletter and monetize at her grow the subscription to it. We don't do anything for the sake of doing it anymore, and what interesting about that is. If you look at the sort of outlier really out there, like totally

leaps and bounds more famous than you, and I are projects on the internet. Things like Postsecret by Frank, Warren or humans of New York by Brandon Stanton none of those started out with that kind of intention The funny thing is you read those stories, and this is how this started. So you bread and apparently had this weird idea that he wanted to photograph ten thousand strangers on the streets of New York and is plot them out on a map strange like what on earth would possess somebody to do that victors, literally nothing in any guide book or online course. That would say, if you do this, you can end up with a instagram accountants, to make you one of the most influential people on the internet, Frank Warren, about three thousand self addressed stamp postcards to strangers on the streets of Washington DC leg? there's no online horse- that would tell you by the way go, do this annual end. Building a popular blog and an audience if any of those p, or had said you know this isn't worth doing. If I can't reach audience of a million people I just went even exist today: jails, that's for sure

research, because there was no benefit, I'm sure that guy who did humans of New York, he probably had a day job for a really really long time, he was, he was a day trader and indeed he left the data but yeah. I was like okay. If there's no way, you could have predicted that that was gonna led to that and even in my own life. I'll, give you an example, another example fur from unmistakable career. So we have this very, very visual brand, where we do custom album covers reverie, guess the interview that resulted from a month where I decided that I was going to teach myself how to draw a thirty days- and I honestly document about Instagram, despite the fact that have talked about the fact that power do this for yourself, but death, point. There was literally nothing to be gained from me drawings in any way at all and what I can The conclusion was that I couldn't draw shit after forty days are thirty days like I just wasn't visual artists, but then, when we were redesigning unmistakable creative

and I saw that the the stock photography on the website for the first time. I thought this doesn't look at. I think I know how to fix it. Let's have our friend more story and custom design, all the icons I wouldn't have had that incite if it hadn't been for those thirty days of drawing, and You ve seen our website using our brand. That has had a huge impact the way that I think about everything, a project that seemed like it had absolutely no per this was one of the most instrumental things that I did in creating the unmistakable creator: bread now even this show started off as me talking with a friend in a basement, and I was a lawyer that were there was no it was eleven years ago. Nobody was thinking. This is my key to the top there weren't. Even there weren't, even internet celebrities, Gary Vain, a truck was a friend of my back in New York, and we used to I used to go to his car Working space, which wasn't even that was just like a rented. Office where he used a word with him and his brother and a bunch of I guess, intern type folks and used

videos about wine before Youtube was a thing tat. We do we started looking at what was originally blood. I found this two thousand nine, both before saying podcast we're dead. Oh yeah pike, member pod was dead every single year, including my share right up. It's always it's always dead and it's always not at all yet so hot become more creative. What sort of systems can we use to become more, if we are to your creativity. We already know creativity makes us happy. We don't have to be some creative genius are successful. Artist to take advantage of the creative happiness connection, so we want Greece, creative momentum. We want to shape or increase our creativity. Where do we begin? So I think that

for the sake of the fact that I know where we're taking this conversation, I want to reverse the way we're gonna process having. We should start with often about environments because of the fact that environments have such a profound impact on behaviour and all the systems were talking about, are going to talk about increase your creative creativity, all based on behaviour. So most people don't realize just how powerful the environment around them, as in shaping their behaviour. We had a guest on unmistakable creative who really came for me under this idea, Ganem Jim Bunch, and he said that everything that you here see smell taste or touch is an environment that either adding energy to your life or draining energy from your life. It's either inspiring you or its expiry. That means the food you eat the people that use round yourself with the podcast. You listen to the blogs. You read the books, you read the car. You drive the desk that you work out the clothes you where all of that has an impact on not only your behavior but also your emotions.

So, let's take something very simple, like the way that we dress and the reason this is fresh in my mind. Is it something that I've gotten lazy about, and I made a decision to start doing more frequently after hanging out with my friend Joseph, whose fifty years old and looks like he's thirty, and I saw that ok- wait a minute. There's a reason he addressing this way. He looks the way, doesn't know he's lamented regularly for out how he looks. But if you ve ever dressed up to go out somewhere or if you ever distress a little bit better and you get yourself cleaned up doesn't matter what your guy girl, you know when you're getting ready for a date. You you look you're best and when you look in the mirror, you feel very different. You feel very confident you carry a sock differently all because one simple thing- instead of wearing you know, a hoodie and a teacher. I might choose to wear a white Oxford I, which is something I just ordered from ever Lane and now genes, rna shirt, I know for a fact that just making that simple change the and I want to come to work as can be very different, because I feel like what a successful person should look like soap.

the thing is what you're doing is your actually designing environments that are not based on who you are today, but there are conducive to the person that you want to become. You don't want your physical environment be reflective of who you are today, but we want to be in your future, because if you do that You will eventually become that person. I'll. Give you another example in my bedroom. home. One of the things I told my friends was if I had a million dollar recording studio out, hang up frame prince of all the unmistakable creative guess that I've interviewed on my wall. she's a honey. You need have no end all recording studio for that. You need some framed IKEA frames and some pictures pointed out that- and So every morning I have a reminder of the most important and inspiring messages from the unmistakable creative and is open this idea of environments goes even further

and were starting with the physical spaces enclosed in something that is because its most basic one and it's the most obvious one. So if you have a despot immaculate her desk that inspires you in a space that you work in that inspires you you're gonna, inevitably do better work in that space, for example, it might be the penury with that you like, or the types of note books are you I do. I use a most can note book because my brain is at this when condition to the fact that When I open up a mole skin, it means it's time to write. So there's the point at which also your environment and your behaviour will get linked. I don't have to think about writing a thousand words everyday morning cause it's. It's literally what I've done when I sit on my desk for so many days in a row that it's almost like not brushing my teeth, something feels off. If that's not how I start the day so, if you look at your physical space, as you know, the cherry work out the trees at an all that, like those things matter, the equipment that you use For example, you- and I were talking at the back- that I run it yet podcasting might this morning, people yourself included, would be pissed off. If I try

record this with a shitty actually MIKE, because the sound quality would suffer inequality. The work would suffer. That's a perfect example of equipment being a party re environment that influences the outcome so when you start to change your environment as a result, your behavioral will naturally change, and this applies, like I said, to the food they eat. The information that you consume to the people that use round yourself with em Emmy post, where there's an actual diagram. If you do a Google search for the nine environments that make up your life, you'll see this diagram that came from Jim much as company the ultimate aim of life, and it shows what the various nine environments are, and you can do an audit of where you stand any should be. It does environmentally warrior relationships like what is your finances, like you know, what is your physical space like but physic, space is kind of the sort of lowest common denominator, and if you start there a lot of other things change. So let's say that you want to four

ample will use a riding habit cause it's the one that I am most familiar with, but referred for those we listening just think about this as a framework, not necessarily a tactic. This sum applying specifically to the tactic of writing, but it's a framework that can be applied to anything. So in his book the happiness advantage. Shawnee Cor had this idea activation energy and it was, because he was trying to teach himself how to play guitar and as a positive psychologist who couldn't maintain a habit that he wanted to develop. He thought what a failure and experimental Cavan include this in my book, but then and he started to realize, was that just the act of pudding, the guitar somewhere, where he would see it increase the likelihood that he practiced dream ethically so much to the point that he actually ended up, picking a habit learning how to play so in my life. What I do is I actually put out a book. I put a notebook and I put out a pen all the night.

for so that when I sit down on my desk, I dont have to go through the hassle of getting a pen getting a notebook and getting some getting out almost him, and what that does. Is it reduces what No one has the activation energy, a number of steps that are between you and the behaviour or habit that you want to act on sulphur me. That's writing and it seems like not a big deal to say. Ok, What's the big deal, if I don't have to get up my notebook or get out a pen or find a book to read, but is a big deal because you're doing is one your limiting three decisions from your morning, which is that your preserving your willpower and if you anything about willpower, every decision you make from the links that you click on to the emails that you check to the phone calls that you respond to all the little things do not just the clouds that you're gonna where that morning, not we're gonna eat all those little things at up to hundreds of decision and what you're doing is your limiting those decisions? Your preserving willpower and your preserving a cognitive by

with, for what is most important to you, which is your highest quality, creative work and the fact that you didn't have to go through the act of getting all that stuff. Has reduced the activation energy and increase the likelihood that you're gonna follow through on this thing now, to do this for things that you want to avoid as well, because again, like we said or an via your behavior, is largely a byproduct of your environment. So let's say, for example, that you hard time resisting distraction which all of us do in the world that we live in, because we have Facebook and you're in Snapchat animals, or should that comes out as all they want. Well, if you choose to work with six browser, Tabs open, have instant message, your open and have your email open. You ve effect, we design an environment, that's not conducive to focus, but if you did something simple as Install rescue time and say: oh, come in a block all these website, then what you ve done is you ve increase the activation energy

thing that you want to avoid, because in order to actually get back to those distracting website, you have to either reboot your computer. You have to go and change some setting. It takes so much effort that you are more likely to soak it will good now. This is gonna. Take way too much of her. It's gonna take more effort to do that, then, to do the thing that I actually want to focus on, so that an increase in activation energy and the more that you do this, the more that you get very deliberate about the environments that make your life that one of the things I tell people is it worth keeping your car really cleanly getting a car wash every week, because if you ve got a new car after com you know exactly how you feel you feel very different. You feel clear. You feel confident, like you just feel better. Every time you get into a clean car after a car wash same thing for for cleaning your house and if you do this on a consistent basis. Eventually what will happen? Is your behaviour will start to change as a byproduct,

of the environment and the environment will do work for you and you will become the next best version of yourself as a result of the environment. So I think, takes us into a sort of natural subway of ok? How do you did all the systems that allow all of this to happen? The ilo the idea of setting up the environment too, be our friend in a way right. We talked about this Benjamin hardy on the show as well, and the aid that there's activation energy, its it just goes hand in hand with me trying to get to the german being like all right. I need to go to the gym today, much time there's not all I have Things got on my right. Instead of just get getting the shower and getting dressed, I'm just gonna get into my Jim clothes. Men are work all day in my Jim clothes and then when it's time to go the Jim, I'm not like. I got to change and I got it am I I just have to walk out the door yeah exactly. That's that's a perfect example: evacuation energy at work.

So we ve got our environment set up in there's plenty more in an audience of one about setting up your environment and different habits, you can do to build creative mental. I am, twisted, though also I think, a lot of people think I'm not creative. So this is- really something that's going to apply to me. You have this concept of the creative autobiography. Can you tell us about this? So the idea behind the creative autobiography is to go back and look at your life from I can get as old enough as you remember your life experience, which might be three or four for some people to that I'm that you were up to the age that you now like what are the things that you have done, that were creative acts, because we were already creative when we were in kindergarten, we're all very creative when we were in and first and second grade what happened at the creativity gets drilled out of us because of the fact that we don't really have a lot of opportunity to express our creative, a school becomes much more rigid and logical unless you have you have been somebody who played a musical instrument who happened to be an artist you get it,

these very linear and logical sort of thought, patterns and ways of learning, and so you start to believe that you're not creative, which is nonsense. The only difference between people are grave and people who are the think they're not is the people who are creative, express their creativity on an ongoing basis and so, if you go through an you, do this creative autobiography and you look at it what's interesting- is that you will actually start to find that wait a minute. I absolutely I'm creative have done all these creative things in my life, every one of us have projects, and here's thing it does need to be something that you as a massive audience approved out. All it needs to be as hey. You know what I drew a cartoon strip once we had a listener recently heard. One of our recent guess talk about making your childhood dreams come true as an adult and after it the episode he sent as a tweet, saying, hey I've had thirty years with a cartoon stashed. In my draw that I've never got now I was like publish them somewhere. He immediately send me a pitcher of one of the monetary policy with awesome and that that

the kind of thing that we're talking about with a great about about, because I think that all of us have moments in which we were created. We just fail to recognise them guys, I think, that's probably through, and I think, even the most uncreative sort of an always right. friend, love, brain and ultimate anyway, engineer we'll be back on Creative in an yeah your mom. Are you ask some relatives around you, one of my being created gotta jumpstart, my memory and unlike member when he built that thing in the backyard. Oh yeah. Maybe we need to solder things together as a kid memories to deconstruct things and diagrams of them in Tran that stuff I did, and I or thought of his creativity at the time. Absolutely I think that that's the other thing that we have to be really mindful of is not to limit the definition of creativity to the things that we typically think of his creative acts like making music and writing books and painting and Anna Conniston, because creativity goes far beyond that. The it's my mind could,

It is simply a impulse to express something, that's out of the ordinary or acting on an impulse to express something that you can help it say or do you ve got this concept of deliberate consumption in this. This caught my ear towards the end of listening to an audience of one leave us with because I think this is a a great final concept people to apply their lives yeah. What is it a perfect four amendments remember when I said that the infirm that you consume is one of the environment that has an impact on your life and the concept of deliberate consumption is basically that your information consumption, along with all your other consumption, should be a deliberate choice and for most of his its I mostly we scroll through the Facebook NEWS freedom we just click on whatever strikes our fancy,

were often subscribed, newsletters and podcast, hundreds of them that way subscribed to many years ago that we don't even Rita. I can tell you the amount of emails. I believe every day that have nothing to do with what I'm interested it now and I dont think of a lot of people. Have that answer there two approaches that you can take to deliberate consumption. So let's say that you're working on a particular project, you can take what I call the content approach to deliberate consumption. So when John Appetite was on his high school newspaper, one of the things that he did was he interviewed a number of different committee. and at the time were as well known as they are Jerry, Seinfeld and a bunch of others. We got interview all these really iconic comedians as a part of his high school newspaper, Dan, coincidentally job. Doubt, has written some of the most icon it colonies of the last decade or last two decades he's an incredible copywriter. That's deliberate consumption, then there's a process approach which, as I am going to, for example, read a hundred pages,

every day, and the idea is that, rather than just by default, clicking on whatever shows up in your inbox are consuming news. That is on the news or just picking things on tv or foot channel serving everyone, your consumption choices is deliberate. Like you read books on purpose, you tat certain set of topics that you choose to follow on a website like medium. You follow. A certain group of people on Twitter, mainly because you wanna be exposed to a specific set of ideas. To listening to this pod cast is an example of a deliberate consumption choice, so you could go and you can listen to news if so, for example, it will, but let's say that your consumption choices are deliberate. Your basically taking in so much noise that you can hardly not only hear your voice, but also missing out on what might be really value one. What might be really significant because of the fact that your consumption choices are not deliberate. I've off this island, thing most of us are surrounded by This is just what I'm gettin thrown into my face.

The tv model, re morbid, Turn it on and were scrolling straw is growing through Instagram Facebook, Twitter, social media Youtube. I was a friend of mine either Deniz a guy just I just watch whatever you do suggests. I watch next to undertake that's the whole point of having internet is. Do not do that yeah! That's it that, and that is the antithesis of dirt deliberate consumption right by are you watching just what their suggesting look? Ok, fine! It's relate aid or something, but talk about away. have time just goin, looking at low quality programming that has the right keywords: it's like off my gosh you're, killing, Meda, exactly again so much in an audience of one, including things like expanding your creative capacity through collaboration, creative crew, training and creative momentum flow Sweeney. Thank you so much my pleasure. Thank you for Great big

Thank you just Rainy Ralph. The book title is an audience of one willing to that that nationals, of course, and if you want to learn how I managed to book all of these amazing people, man. a lot of really great healthy, beneficial relationships. I use a lot of tiny habits that I can do it a few minutes per day. I dont procrastinator tell myself I'll, do it later. That is losing slash, loser mindset. I don't care how busy you are. That's a number one mistake. I see people make, postponing it and not dig in the well before you thirsty thinking you dont need relationships. Don't do that you yourself are you regret it find out, I do this, I'm givin it away for free. I want you to learn this. It's the biggest game changer in my own life advance human dynamics, dot com, slash level one for a few minutes per day. The stuff. I wish I knew ten fifteen years ago. You could find it all. It just human dynamics, dot, com, slash level one and speaking of building relationships. Tell me one take away from Sweeney Round at Jordan, Harbinger on both Twitter and Instagram until four

If you want to learn how to apply everything, you learned here today from Sweeney, make sure you go grab worksheets. Also in the show notes at Jordan Harbinger dot com, slash podcast. This shows. Houston Association with Podcast one and is episode, was co produced by Jason. The co create, to Philip and Jan Harbinger showed us by Robert Fogey worksheets by Caleb Bacon, and I'm your host Jordan Harbinger defeat for the shows you share with friends when you find something useful which is hopefully in every episode. So please share the show with those love and even those you don't. We ve got a lot of great stuff. Come in for the rest of the year and in the meantime, do your best to apply what you hear on the show. So you can What you listen and we'll see you next time, you know, the old saying, selling like hotcakes. What does that even me? What is a hot cake anyway, should change it to selling like haunt us, because right now, hunters are selling faster than ever, probably because they're, so rugged long, lasting and fuel efficient, and if we want one you should get, you are lower

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