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559: How to Say Yes to Post-Traumatic Success | Feedback Friday

2021-09-10 | 🔗

How do you find your way back to high achievement when coping with the aftermath of extreme trauma keeps you low? We'll try to find an answer to this and more here on Feedback Friday! We'll try to find an answer to this and more here on Feedback Friday!

And in case you didn't already know it, Jordan Harbinger (@JordanHarbinger) and Gabriel Mizrahi (@GabeMizrahi) banter and take your comments and questions for Feedback Friday right here every week! If you want us to answer your question, register your feedback, or tell your story on one of our upcoming weekly Feedback Friday episodes, drop us a line at friday@jordanharbinger.com. Now let's dive in!

Full show notes and resources can be found here: jordanharbinger.com/559

On This Week's Feedback Friday, We Discuss:
  • How do you find your way back to the hallowed halls of high achievement when the trauma you're trying to work through is doing its best to keep you low? [Thanks to clinical psychologist Dr. Erin Margolis for helping us with this one!]
  • How do you break off a friendship with someone who's way more into it than you are without hurting their feelings? [Many thanks to From Start-Up to Grown-Up author Alisa Cohn for helping us answer this!]
  • How can you get your lyin' and cheatin' ex-spouse to change their no-good behavior for the sake of your angelic offspring?
  • You recently finished the novel you've been working on for five years and discovered along the way that writing it was a process you enjoyed far more than your day job. Should you dive in and become a full-time, professional writer, or just keep at it as an inspiring hobby?
  • Your mom has been diagnosed as seriously mentally ill (SMI) and in treatment for half your life. Her psychiatrist of the past 17 years doesn't seem to be doing much to help -- in fact, her behavior's only gotten worse. As her medical power of attorney, you're considering a court order for a new mental health evaluation, but she lives in another state and you don't know where to begin. What can you do? [Once again, thanks to Corbin Payne (aka C-Payne) for helping us with this one!]
  • Have any questions, comments, or stories you'd like to share with us? Drop us a line at friday@jordanharbinger.com!
  • Connect with Jordan on Twitter at @JordanHarbinger and Instagram at @jordanharbinger.
  • Connect with Gabriel on Twitter at @GabeMizrahi.


This is an unofficial transcript meant for reference. Accuracy is not guaranteed.
Welcome to feedback Friday, I'm your host Jordan, Harbinger and, as always on here with feedback Friday producer, the friends of prescription in my court of consultation, Gabriel, Miss Rocky, on the Jordan Harbinger show we decode the stories, secrets and skills of the world's most fascinating people and we turn their wisdom into practical advice. The UK, is to invite your own life and those around Europe. We want to, you see the matrix when it comes to how these amazing people think and behave and our it is to help you become a better informed, more critical thinker, so you can get a deeper understanding of how the world works and make sense of what really happening even inside your own mind. So if you're, not to the show on Fridays. That's today, whatever data's, we give advice to you and we answer listener questions the rest of the week. We have long warm interviews in conversations with a variety of folks from spies to see owes athletes, authors, thinkers, performers, jihad he's Nero scientists this week we had Doktor Jack Schaefer
on the show he was on before, with elicited techniques super popular episode. These techniques are used by the FBI and hunting spies, and we talked about how we can use those same tactics to our advantage. The latest episode was also a to partner on getting people to like and trust us in you see why that might be useful in hunting spies as well and comes in handy in just about every profession, so make sure you have a listen to those shows from this week as well joining us for the first time or you're. Looking for a handy way to tell your friends about this, show we have episode starter packs. The starter pacts are elections of your favorite episodes organised by popular topic. That'll help new listeners get a taste of everything we do here on the show just visit Jordan. Your dot com. Slash start to get started. Also by the I I've read every so often on the blog alot of you been reading. The writing and I love that my latest post, why hustle culture makes you miserable and how to break out of this one is all about the beef I have with the whole rise and grind mindset, so called motives.
she porn all that labour productivity crap. That basically says all success in life comes from working yourself to the bone. I'd found out- that's not true by try it myself and going through many other avenues of to do the same. I also lay out some concrete tips for breaking out of it, like mindset said how to find higher quality influences that will you much further in life than some righted out bro yelling. You on Youtube, for wanting at eight hours asleep. So this ones in or out my head for years. Definitely one of my favorite so check it out. You can find that article in all of our articles at Jordan, Harbinger Dotcom, slash articles. I gave what's the first thing, I D, the Mailbag high Jordan and gave I used to be a high profile
were until four years ago, when I was sexually assaulted by my boyfriend. Aside from the trauma and depression, it really through me for a loop in regards to my identity. I've worked through much of this with a therapist spiritual, mentor and antidepressants I'd, say I'm in a pretty good place now, but I haven't been able to balance back to the high performer. I was prior to the event I used to get up early work out, take twenty one credits, a semester and still have time to volunteer and hang with friends. I still do a lot. I work part time for a non profit and building a house. I'm planning a wedding with my wonderful fiance and we are in the process of purchasing a small hotel, but I cant find the motivation and strength that I used to have its hard to get up early. I feel spread thin and I would often, rather dissociate then purchase I love all of the things that are happening in my life and I feel fulfilled, but I dont feel that zeal that I once had, I've tried taking baby steps
a better like going to bed early reading, instead of watching tv and stuff like that, but I find it hard to keep myself accountable. How do I get back to being the ambitious high achiever? I once was signed back in the ring. Looking for my old thing, so this is a really interesting letter. I'm glad you wrote in first of all, obviously very sorry you experience something so dramatic. I can even begin to imagine what that kind of experience is like, and you sound like a very thoughtful person, obviously very dry, and I mean just twenty. What you had me at twenty one credits, first of all gave up If you remember college here, a little younger than me about twenty one is a shitload like by any measure. I think I was like kind of fifteen. Sixteen you know of top off the twenty one is is a ton. This is a lot nurses super a bushel stuff nor yet, as a person had done and you built what sounds like a fallen, an awesome life. I mean you come out the other side of this crazy trump with a great partner, a house, a new business. I'm sure that was not easy. I just want to give you major props for that, because you're already
way ahead of where most people are, and I know that's, cold comfort. It's pretty obvious. You ve done a ton of work on yourself, in addition, which is also amazing, but the fact that you ve been able to thrive in so many ways after the assault, and yet you still feel like your liking, strengthen your liking and motivation. I find that really interesting. We ve actually consulted on your question Doktor Erin, Margolis she's, a clinical psychologist friend to the show she's zero it in on this to this identity, who had as a high performer that you have as a high performer and this conflict. You feel now around not parading the way that you used to and Doktor Margolis. His first insight was that being achiever it's complicated, identity, sure being ambitious and active in Hungary that can be exciting and effective, but it can also be toxic drafting- and I know this first Andrews from working on Wall Street or around all these type days- you know being in law school with all these types of people and not that you're. Like but you know that high achievers, whether their functional or super toxic. We have that in common
his doctor Margolis pointed out, it can often be a sneaky form of maidens, being super ambitious, proactive and hungry? You can kind of like be a coping, strategy, in a way it basically by preventing us from confronting some of the difficult themes of our life, whether its depression, anxiety, insecurity loneliness some cocktail of the above or just ask ourselves what it is that we really want to life high achievement its high valued in our culture very highly valued. It's usually seen as a badge of honor, so a lot of people are really no one's gonna get on your case for taking twenty one credits, even if you're, avoiding some other thing by taking twenty one credit right. So it can also be counterproductive to being a happy, well functioning human being. So, given all that, I'm very curious about this question that you're asking how do I back to being the ambitious high achiever. I once was not just because You are already performing quite well these days, at least externally, from what we can see, but because it is very possible that you don't want or to be that person anymore. Doktor Margolis saw something
similar in your letter. She pointed out that the answer to your question it might not be about. Trying to get back to where you were, but happening where you are now and letting go of this past self that might have so basically mechanism right. That means understanding the function of your productivity, how it operates, what it's doing for you, why it feels so import you'd be that person again or maybe just to be seen as person again. This is the idea, you are right, it also means exploring what it means to even be a productive person. These days, it sounds to me like a running out. L working in a nonprofit building a house have great relationship and having friends and a functional life outside of that. That's your definition of productive, and that is a ton biome all measures here. But, as after Margolis, pointed out being productive, also means listening to your body tuning, it emotions sitting with yourself, giving yourself space to consider these hard life questions. That's time wasted, that's being a human being, and so I think you might
asking the wrong question here. Let's make some room for that. Maybe the more interesting question is: what does it mean? the high achiever and war. meaning am I making out of not being as productive as I once was those other since I would be exploring right now- and my guess is that you probably have a great deal of self esteem and self worth tied up in this definition of achievement, and I think it's worth exploring all that. Will you therapist yeah. I agree we re Jordan because really what I am hearing and what I think your hearing in this question is that she's in the middle of a major transition, I think you're probably view yet as a kind of crisis that was brought on by the assault and I'm not denying that. That event probably played a very, very big role here, but really this could be it healthy. Evolution of your sense of self of your identity, new way really to value yourself value your time and figure out what is important to you in your life these days and doktor Margolis
he had a similar insight that this evolution that you're describing it actually sounds very positive in so many ways were not saying that you're trauma was a good thing, of course, not, but Doktor Margolis pointed out that as horrible as certain experiences can be, they can also be very useful. They can be useful and showing us patterns that aren't serving us or values that on hold water for us anymore and is very possible that what happened to you, it might have forced to a kind of a re evaluation of your most foundational basic principles and that was incredibly four yeah for sure, but it might have also helped you see that this high achiever mode, this you know productivity, maven. You want were that wasn't necessarily a healthy, sustainable pattern. It might not have been working very well we gave you a lot of gratification, but that doesn't mean it was the right pattern for you and now you feel like you're failing. It sounds like because its heart
get up early and fully participate in your life, but Doktor Margolis pointed out that when we don't listen to our emotional experience, whatever's true for us, what is going on our body has a way of forcing us to write, and we see this if you work ninety hours a week or week after week after week, you know you'll, wake up, you'll, be sick, right or you'll. Get super tired, so you'll need to check out and that's our body's way of protecting us from falling back into those harmful patterns, and so her hunch was that what happened to you probably forced a lot of emotion to the surface and that maybe that emotion needs to be given some more space in your life than it had been before. And all of that is like you to reconsider what you actually want, which is actually a great thing. So actually talk to my boss pointed us to a concept that explains exactly this process. It's called post, traumatic growth. We talked a lot about post, traumatic stress, but we don't talk so much about the after
x in a positive sense of what happens after disruptive event a traumatic event like this trauma that can disrupt your identity, no doubt about it, especially something is as violating as sexual assault, but there is also this very well studied phenomenon of people, and I think this might include people like you, who go through trauma and become more resilient and they become more attend and they become more self actualized, which is actually really extraordinary. If you think about it, and so it's possible that way, you're describing as a struggle that this is our the growth and you might be minimizing that growth by framing it as a failure or disappointment after the person you once were, instead of doing it as just a part of this very powerful process of questioning and re evaluating and evolving. As a person not said, if your continuing to struggle with something like depression or you feel like you- have like this very apathetic view, or I don't know you, sir, how does dissociated approaches you described to all of your experiences and this is like a real problem,
yeah, then. I would obviously listen to that. I would talk to your therapists. Maybe talk to your psychiatrist, about that. There are definitely interventions and treatments that can help you get moving again. Doktor mobile is confirmed but that's not really what I'm here for this letter in Jordan. I think you agree yeah. I agree with that. I do so as well, because you can. I would try to get more curious and compassionate about the shift in your life, not to sound so like meditate on this grasshopper, but really partly due to the assault and partly due your own evolution, your values have clearly shifted and forming a new identity and is Doctor Margolis puts it. Growth always include the healthy pruning away of old patterns and parts of self that was to everyone. I totally agree with that. I'm really sorry, you went through something so difficult. I obviously wish it didn't happen monsieur here. I'm sure you do as well, but it did happen and you ve worked through it, with tremendous resilience and curiosity out. It's brought you to a new, poison your life. I would try to find out why there's a lot of good stuff,
unfolding here, a lotta growth on the other side of his high achiever mindset. I'd go find out what that growth is. So good luck with that and Gabriel. I just on the side note here like this might be sort of a trait bull shitty, one nation, but when I was in college I had so much more energy, and I also felt like I had to do everything, and I also had unlimited things to do right so now I'm a little older, and am I pay a lot of that stuff? Doesn't matter, I'm just less motivated to do crap that I dont care as much about, and it's not like sure I dont question I lost motivation for those things because of some traumatic event, because I didn't have a traumatic event, but I can also see if I went through something in my tastes. Changed in part it was natural or all of it was natural that it might be like. Oh no is this because of this thing, happened to me is that it am. I broke in some way when really you're. Just like you know I can just want to focus on my business and go to the German hang out with my significant other there's up wrong with that, you know a cow,
I did like everything because it was you know over achieve remote, get into college school whatever was, and then I graduated eyes, like a lotta It was a waste of time. It didn't mean I was less motivated or less of an achiever. It just meant that I kind of realised that have to do all that stuff anymore. The pressure was really, I put the pressure myself and it was miserable if she were saying in bed all day, and I can't go to the german Allah. Eater Chios I'd be like ok. This is a thing but she's, like I'm doing is being in a grave. relationship and managing a hotel in applying a house and having taken all I like you're in the ninety nine percent tile. Instead of a hundred percent I'll write, don't panic but don't forget because all of your happiness and fulfilment is coming from four things. Instead of ten things and re, these four things even better and they're just happened here and from what you used to do with your life. Absolute gets a winning, a silver metal and being like. Oh I'm, a failure right like not really know you're different person now- and I think she's may be true.
getting some of to this traumatic event, and maybe it is part of that. But it's really tempting to look at yourself five ten years ago and go all. I was different, then, in an in better in this way, and then, I find the reason that that is the case in if there's no reason like with me, like I'm just getting older, but if you have something happen, you're like it must be because of this thing that changed my life in other ways and must be thus right, because you're, probably study, at an opening that up and looking at it as an explanation for all kinds of shifts, but here happens to be a shift that is largely positive, probably or she can figure out, what's positive and go with that, and it seems that it might just be an indication nor confirmation of this very terrible thing that happened when in reality it might just be a very natural growth. So the question is: what does better even mean like what is? I look like what matters to you? I think that's the
question. It's like a lot of my friends, forty one right. So a lot of my friends were older, or else it like all. Wait till your fifty in their like its impostor they'll, say something like all. You know getting older, it's impossible to stay and shit. Or to stay thin and, unlike you housing, a pizza right now. Do you think it could be your died down like yours, you dad when you're older, you kids impossible to lose weight. You literally eight ships for dinner foreign. I got more. It's right: it's not just eater age road. Anyway, you can reach us Friday, at Jordan Harbinger dot com. Please keep your emails, concise, try to use a descriptive subject line. It makes our job easier. Let us know what state in country or in that can help to. If there's some you're going through any big d in your wrestling with or if you need a new perspective on stuff life, love work. What to do about your boyfriend meeting family. Whatever is got you stand up at night. Lately us up Friday at Jordan, harbinger dot com we're here to help. We keep every El Anonymous here, listening to
back Friday here on the Jordan Harbinger, show we'll be right back thanks for listening and supporting the show. Your support of our advertisers keeps us going who doesn't love some good products and or services. You can always visit Jordan, harbinger dot com slice deals for all the details on everybody that helps support the shell and now back to feedback Friday on the Jordan Harbinger show our rights next up. High Jordan, Gabe I'm a twenty nine year old woman and about two years ago I met up with a woman who followed me on social media and over the next few months we developed a friendship as we spent more time Other though I realised that we weren't really on the same wavelength and that I couldn't entirely be myself around her, but I waved off those doubts thinking that it will take time to really open up to somebody, so we sing, each other her initiating our meetings. Most of the time it's funny seeing each a guy would never say that, like I met this friend and we keep saying it like, only women can use that term. I feel I totally reject what are we said. Melick restarted
in our hanging out where you would never needed because geyser like. I don't want any ambiguity in this bigger hashtag, no homo air does require. You in Chad did see each other when you grab there, we saw each other, but we didn't seeds merely physically saw physically that across and made eye contact when appropriate. Apathetic. Our feet touched turning very quick they actually consider her. No, I that images and just picturing a couple, a new balances, making light, lay contact beneath a couple. They are definitely not times no terms if its arms that are for blood, fledged relationship very nervous each other good, very quickly. She considered me one of her closest friends. She shared a lot of personal stuff. Told me about her previous friendships, how she had been disappointed by people a few times contacted me way more than I did her, and if I didn't reply quickly enough, she would ask me if anything was wrong. A few weeks ago,
I told her that I'm not always able to text her back right away that for me it's totally normal to not taxed or talk to Oliver friends every few days she seemed to understand and are communiques and became a little less frequent fast for today. I have now realised that I just don't want to spend any of my time with this person. It sounds cruel, but the free time I do have is just too precious to me and I only want to spend time doing things that fulfil me. This might put me in the list of her quote. Him quote disappointing friends, but I can live with that. Also, I can't help but wonder if those previous friendships she mentioned took a similar path. Forger, should like definite I represent their. Should I break up with his friend like a relationship, if so. I do that without hurting her or should I let us become one of those friendships. Duchess slowly fades out signed, putting a friendship to bed without message. There had so I know this situation. Well. I've seen this mess a few times over the years. It's always super sad and awkward. This friend of yours, she
Obviously has some tricky patterns and now you're stuck between protecting her feelings, and protecting your time and that's a tough spot to be in, but you know you have and things. I totally agree honestly, if I'm giving you the unvarnished truth here, she said really annoying in clinging. We wanted to get an expert opinion on your so we consulted with Alyssa Con elicit a start of coaches. Esther and author of from start up to grown up in one of her. Many areas of expertise is managing relationships and she's. Pretty damn good at it elicits take was that there are basically two ways that you can approach this option one You just stop seeing this woman and answering our texts leaving her with you. Agony of wondering what happened so ghosting right. This allows you to avoid the direct conversation, but it'll probably leave you with some guilt. Definitely major awkwardness, if you ever bump into her, I don't necessarily recommend. Of course, option two. You have a conversation that will be in full for her and certainly upsetting for you, but it she'll, know how you feel, and she won't be left wondering what the hell happened if you ve ever been in,
position of wondering why a friend stop talking with you. You know how difficult that is personally. If this woman won't take the hint I'm a fan of option, do. I know it's horrible. It sad, but it's actually kind of the most respectful thing can do So how do you actually have that conversation, but first of all Alyssa activating your compassion if you're like me, it's really hard to I, but you might be better at that- You'Re- probably right- that this dynamic is reminiscent of her past friendships. Again she comes on work, two strong too fast. Other people back away disappoint, her and then she's like hissing right. Why aren't you texting me back cringe analysed? recommence thinking back on times that you ve been hurt or blown off by people you care about and just happened that empathy, even if their being a total weirdo it sucks so just be gentle and make sure your tone reflects that. Then there is the question of where to do it. Email or or text certainly feels the easiest, but it's really impersonal. It can easily be misunderstood.
You could do it in person, but then you seeing them in person, it's actually more cruel away. Because look your phone calls your best bet the phone call get a bit of a shield and then, when the conversation is over Sheila, be at home. Certainly she would have to like drive home all worked up or beyond. The subway just Ryan gives you met up at Starbucks. You are like here's the thing down order just yet, but I never want to hang out with you again right, like a weirdo yeah movies rights, so here's a little script illicit came up with. You could start by saying something like This is really hard to say, and I know this is disappointing by war. But you know that I can't be the friend you want me to be I'm sorry about that. I just don't see us going in the same direction. I want to tell you honestly howling feeling, rather than just fade away, I think you're a great person We do. I wish you the very best, but I think it's best for both of us. If we don't make plans together anymore, you dont have to follow the exact script of course, but when you do this, be prepared for any number of reactions. She might get angry. She might just get safe
or maybe should hang up on you don't. Her initial reaction. Throw you it's not referendum on whether you made the right decision and something dramatically target. Really pissed off or slamming the phone down that mighty just be another way of reeling you back in so dont internalize it dont react just listen to their reaction, her reaction if she has any questions. I'd be ready to answer few of them just briefly like what specifically was it an alien, Billy Gay? It's weird that when I tell you in your text, that I dont text back for a day that you're like what happened where and you're calling me five times a night, that's weird! It's weird and its meetings. Clinging like you can say that just don't be hurtful and she might be why, and you might want to say something along the lines of, because I think we have different expectations of what this friendship should be or should I say, is there anything I, can do to change your mind and any might have to say something like. No, I just I just don't think we're in the same place, so Alyssa also events coming back to the phrase, I think you're a great person, and I wish you the very best for you. You can express appreciation
for what you brought to each other. While you were friends and then just trust that so get a move on his game. I don't know, there's a kind of a weighted this highlights the other person down easy and then there's like the middle school version, we're like I hate you, don't ever call me again and the other person's just like super torn up about it, sir, and there's on it, a middle ground right. It's either hurtful or it's not right once you really start to unpack at, you realize wipe so many people ghost, because it so much easier, and the sad thing is that I think we've gotten so used to that that we just sort of like have to interpret other people silences till spare ourselves and then the discomfort of this conversation. Even though this conversation, objectively speaking, not as bad as we think it is, and it also weird way it's kind of a sign of respect. So I agree completely in Jordan. I actually this is funny. I recently had to break up with somebody. We are only dating for a few months, but you still really sad. Shoes, gray person- I was truly truly truly dreading this conversation and
I talked about it with my brother in law. I was like John, like I don't know how to do this. I am dreading. There's this girl, wonderful. I want our feelings. Are you not to say this and he He told me so: may I ll never forget he goes. You have to take the puppy back to the shelter like like how it feels ending a relationship with someone who's a good person but is not for you. It's like taking an adorable puppy back to the shelter like you just got to do it it's going to suck and then it's done Then the euthanize, the poor, innocent you little happy or because you were too lazy and selfish to take care of it. Nice Gabriel, it's ok, I'm sorry, but it had to be done. I know that's a brutal metaphor, but I think you know what I mean right lake if its not working out you just gotta a and in this woman's case I think, there's another very good reason to officially break up rather than just ghost her, which is that this friend, as you pointed out, she has a pattern of getting close with people and unfeeling disappointed, so giving her some sense of why this
and even if it's just a little bit that might help her get curious about this pattern and finally fix it and in that way, as painful as it is as awkward as it. you can actually be giving her a really big gift, as you guys part ways, But it's on you to fix her or whatever, but if you feel inclined to open up a little bit if she seems receptive to hearing you know some feedback, You might actually end up really helping her in the long run. Definitely lead if she's, Did you hear that it could be a game changer? It could also be that moment where she goes a wow. This is definitely a thing in my life. I need to work on this. This is the straw that broke the camel's back. I've done this with all my friends, but she's gotta be ready and willing to hear that. So I hope that helps. I wish you the best, We don't belabour, there's just get it done! Take the puppy back to the shelter we thoughtful, but beef. And know that you're allowed to have whatever feelings you have you don't have to feel guilty for protecting your time is up is an adult for handling this, like an adult you know come on. I'm willing to elicit book from startup
grown up in the show note, there's actually a ton of practical scripts for scenarios just like these, and there it's available for pre order. Now too great red illicit is very, very smart and savvy, especially when it comes to these types of situations. by the way we forgot to throw this tag onto a recent episode, but the experts we consult on the show there a huge part of his podcast, as you know, they're one of our superpowers and I want you to know that their helping us because they love the show when they love you guys, just like we do and just to say when they do offer guidance their speaking more generally. There not giving personalized expert advice, legal adviser therapy or sing like that. We did forget to mention that in a recent episode that was episode five four, so I just want to make that clear. This applies to lawyers like urban pain and all the amazing experts you here on the show and even to me, because, as I like to say, I'm a lawyer, but I am not your lawyer and frankly, you should near me any legal work whatsoever are next up, Hey Jordan and gave I separated from my wife
years ago after I found out that she was being unfaithful. We had a few months where we can stand near each other boat. We ultimately decided it wasn't doing any good for a three year old daughter to see us fight. We were able to put things aside and successfully CO parent, but recently I discovered a pattern of lying. In my ex wife, I found out that when she moved out of the house, while we were separated, she was actually staying with the guys who is cheating on me with rather than a friend of her like she told me to give a more mundane example. She said that she paid for the registration on her car to be renewed and that the tags got lost in the mail multiple times, but when I called to follow up they record of anybody getting them renewed and then another time she said she was taking our daughter out of town, but she lied about what town they went to. This pattern is largely reason that I filed for divorce. My ex has a history of opera and has recently been acting out sexually hooking up with guys, she just met in bar bathrooms, going over to guys how at all hours of the night for Saxon, so on she's been staying with me since last summer,
and will be moving out soon, but I worry that our daughter is going to witness her lifestyle, I'm not comfortable with. Adam guy's, going over to her place on nights. She has a sleep over with our daughter. I know that you want honest about, what's going on. If I ask her as she likes to tell you what you want to hear, my attorney has said that I can't control who she is over, nor how she parents, as long as the child, is in any danger, there's nothing that can be done so How can I get her to be honest with me and not have some guys in and out of her home when that time comes signed, unable to ignore this rotating door Congress National, first of all major problems for you and your wife for handling or conflict. So well, at least in the beginning. There ending a marriage, because somebody's cheating obviously very painful situation and, of course you are angry, but the fact that you could put that animosity aside for the sake of your daughter and putting her first, That's a lot about you and you guys both actually all this other drama not withstand.
and so I want to commend you for that. I think that's great, that's what should be done as far as your concerns about your wife, it definitely sounds like she's wrestling with some stuff between the trauma and the lying in the promiscuity you're not wrong to be concerned at all. I don't say that judgment away or like a slut Jamie kind away. Your wife is obviously free to do whatever she once she single now. This is her life, but you're right having a lot of men around especially randalls, like random dude met in bars. That could be weird for your daughter can be confusing for your daughter. It could be dangerous. Dear daughter, it could be or a lot destabilizing just again, the risks of have random people around a young girl. I'm not saying something terrible is going to happen or that your wife is choosing dangerous men, but let's be real guys who are not in their teens and twentys hooking, up with random women in a bar, not usually a good filter for like responsible upstanding citizens. It is a real possibility,
and honestly just having a rotating cast of random dudes eating Frickin cheerios with your daughter in the morning could be complicated enough, but your lawyer probably right, unless your daughters and direct danger it'll be hard compel your wife to change her behaviour and obviously you dont want to wait until something bad happens to intervene. So I wouldn't make some time to talk about this with your ex wife. I would begin by telling her that this whole chapter has been super hard, but that you're really pay, both of you for being able to put away or drama and give your daughter to the best possible upbringing? Get her to confirm that water is actually your biggest shared priority that, whatever you do. It has to be in service of her well being, and once you agree on that I would carefully bring up her love life and I would do this very gently and respectfully you're, probably have to work hard, not to get angry or drudge. The last thing you want to do, is have her lash out or shut down. I would say something like listen were separated, whatever you want to do, who everyone
totally your choice. I accept it. I have zero problem with it as long as you're being safe, but I just want to talk to but how that a work when our daughters days over, because I'm sure you that it would be confusing for her to see different men. Coming in and out of the house she might have come, about moms new friends, and I think it would just be a lot simpler for her if you kept that part of your life away from her until she's older? What do you think, and I would talk it out with her? Hopefully she'll see your point, but if she doesn't help her see things from your daughter's purse of as much as you can stay away from your feelings, which probably she doesn't give a crap about she's already cheat on you once right cannot get to care your feelings about her lifestyle. Keep things focused on your daughter's experience. Could she can argue day about whether she has the right to date have to do with a ten mile radius on Okcupid and Bang deeds and bars. But she can't run cynically argue that seeing Mommy's new friends go in and out of the house at all hours of the night as a good environment for a kid bright. It's just that part I think, is objective about Europe
actively yeah bad. Once you recognizes that I would get her to try to agree to a few ground rules here, for will she only as dates over when your daughter staying with you or your effort are you staying with her? She hears a babysitter and she goes to the other person's house. She doesn't have come to hers that can also be kind of dicey cuz. She should probably be but in that time, with your daughter and know, the baby sitter can't be some dude. She met at crunch fitness last week. Me maybe was equinox. There are no problem, aqueducts, of course, distantly ammo or match your lunch. None are rather like planets, fitness? Don't even think about a friend this, even though their fanatic, that's deasey, I've call redress. That's right. Maybe she only bring someone home when it becomes a more serious relationship and you can tell her the same goes for you right year, but follow the same rules. That seems fair. That's how I would approach it. None this controversial you're, not asking your ex to stop dating or stop what doing what you can't anyway you're just asking her to handle it in a way that
doesn't impact your daughter. Yes, I agree. I like that approach larger Jordan, but do here- you that your wife has bigger issues that she's dealing with here and she's your daughter's mom and dad backs your daughter. So if its appropriate, I would. Courage her. If you can to start going to therapy between the trauma and the lying and the history of acting out, your ex wife needs to be talking to somebody. Monsieur should be talking somebody, let's put it I would framed this. As you know, with all the change that's happening in our marriage and with our family. I bet it would be very helpful to have a place to process all the stuff rather than some like. You know your line of my face. Your terrible MA municipal fix that get on that the kind of thing, maybe you could even say something like I've, been doing a lot of my own work on my own, since the separation actually think it's made me a better. Dad could be great for you to give it a try. You know see what comes up, because it going to change its programme to happen- and there not gonna happen because you, you know disapprove of her lifestyle as for the lying
because you can. I would try to let go of the you know, the smaller, petty or lies that dont directly impact you and try to help your ex address them. that actually do and another good groundwork would be if she takes her daughter out a town. She needs to tell exactly where they are. She can't say there you know going to Portland and then hop on a flight to Vancouver whatever it's, not cool it's the bad idea. If anything ever happened in you needed to locate them or he just needed to get in touch with them. That could be a huge problem. If you can, I would make see that lying to you about things like that. It's not just unfair! It's not just kind of scotch. It's also potentially dangerous and, That's not how one parent rates and other parent. This is not a good situation for any of you. But, aside from that, the best thing you can do is stay close with your daughter. You definitely sound like the steady are apparent in her life. I think that's wonderful! Your daughter super lucky to have you she's going to need you especially she gets older, so keep putting her first. Keep investing in your relationship with her stay connected to her makes her. She knows that she's loved and she safe, and that you can trust you cause. That's gonna be huge again, especially if you're right
doesn't know, reassess or her behaviour she's gonna need you close by. Definitely I mean that the dad the writer here is definitely the daughters best hope, especially if mom is like me, sounds a little bit like a disaster. I hate we judge, but this does not sound like a great scenario. Some wishing you, your daughter and even your acts, the best of luck. Good luck with that gave its hard because we only have one side of the story, but also there's some stuff. Like ok, you're adults have a kid. Your inviting random do that. You met in a bar over your house like how do you not foresee disastrous consequences, possibly happening right now? It's It's really really scary. So I feel I feel those got. I agree absolutely do. This is the Jordan Harbinger Show- and this is Feedback Friday, we'll be right back and now back to Feedback Friday, the Jordan Harbinger show our next up high Georgina gave about five years ago. I started writing a science fiction novel in my spare time it's taken
on time to make real progress, but I'm nearing the end and after some intense editing, I should have a final novel. This fall I'm now faced. As you, I never thought I would have. I am increasingly dissatisfied with my day job in comparison when I started novel at a clear vision, a strong motivation and lower expectations. But I enjoyed the process so much that I now desperately need this novel to be a quote. Him quote success. I've never felt it. In my work as an engineer, and I doubt I ever will. I realise that hope. that this novel will spark a whole career is unreasonable. Still, I cannot let go of this hope. I love writing and, apart from the utter dread of having to sell my work as my livelihood, I could see myself as a professional writer for the rest of my life What makes this even more difficult, though, is that I have a family, that's depending on me to take care of them financially. So I'm worried about this loss of passion. I don't want to sabotage my career by putting too much hope in a far fetched
dream, but if I went all in on my current career, I feel like I'm like a crazy, should I keep writing as a hobby or dive in and make it. My career signed remain a show or raise the quill well, first of all major props and writing a novel. That is a huge accomplishment just setting out to write some and actually finishing it probably put you in the Point: zero, zero, zero, one percent of people who want to be artists or creators. Definitely the fact that you found so much join the bright Gabriel like dont. Isn't writing a book, a cliche as no one actually friggin? Does it ever it's the hardest thing? yeah, it's hugely impressive and the fact that you found so much joy in the press. I think that's amazing, but it's also bring up some of these new question. So, let's dive into that, so it's interesting What I'm hearing is that you feel like this true calling or whatever, but you are also trying to be realistic, which candidly is is smart. We all know tons of talented writers get rejected for years before they find success if they ever find success.
Many many more, never get published at all. In my take three four five books before you sell one or you could strike, so there's one right out the gate and then suddenly the publisher wants your next one and before you know it, you quit your job and being a writer for real and that's just part of them mine. Fuck of being an artist, but then you said something had stood out to me that you can't let go of his dream, but they, You feel utter dread about having to sell your work to support your livelihood, and I think this is really telling it's very common, but the reality is that's. What being a full time creator or writer- is if you give up, engineering career, and you call in on being a novelist that is going to be your sole source of income, and that is what the people you work with will expect. This you love doing because you found it inherently enjoyable that'll suddenly become your job and a job is very different from a hobby. It comes with new expectations and standards and timelines. It's never is pure as it was.
Beginning, and that can be a tough pill to swallow for a lot of people. It can actually be really frustrating scary. You know I used to do the show in a basement. I don't worry about the quality. I edited it myself. Just barely talk about whatever I wanted. I did whatever prep I wanted. It was really a lot of fun, I'm having more fun now, but I'm not care we like, I was back then like oh yeah. We didn't released one for a week like whatever, who cares that wasn't even thinking about it. Now it's like grown there. One out of our late. People are damning me, you know it's it's a whole thing. All the art is in that there's all these little things. I didn't even care about her think about before, because I was aware- and that said, if you We want to build your life around. Your writing then go pro might be great for you, but then you have to just make peace with that dread that you feel it sucks, but you don't get have a creative career and not feel the pressure of doing it for money. You just don't, and if you decide that you can't accept that arrangement than maybe you don't really want to be a professional writer and that's totally find too. You can keep it as a how d you can self publish whatever that looks like it can be a site also, so I would get clear
what role you wants writing to play in your life. If you, why to just be a hobby, great you'll find a lot of joy that, like you did, but if you want to see if your writing can go somewhere, which it sounds like you do, then you have to be prepared, or your relationship with your art to change and that's just the way it is when you're participating in a system and not just scribbling, away, knights and weakens in your garage wrote. This is Every artist confronts at some point I've felt very similar things at different points in my life. It's totally normal, but honestly, I wouldn't worry about this too far in advance, I mean you haven't even sent your manuscript, yet you still need a job meantime, and even if you do published this bug, you might need to hang onto a job to support your family until you saw this one. So this is a long and and rocky road. The economics of writing are weird, to put it simply, and sometimes pretty terrible. You might have to do what a lot of writers do wishes continue doing another job until you can really bank on your writing as a study career. So I would
out of your engineering job just yet when it really feels like us law again, it's absolutely miserable. Maybe you can fly new challenge or new role or new lens on it. That will make it more doable. Maybe you can even do a little writing at work if that's an option and maybe that's more fun or if it just really socks and there's no way it. Maybe you can remind yourself that this job is literally funding your dream and that alone could give it a little more meaning happy couple. but an hey, here's another idea. Maybe you can use some of the dissatisfaction that you're feeling these days to move a little faster with your writing. You know. Maybe, when you're bummed about work, you can come home and say like submit my manuscripts. Even more people are gonna finish these at it's a little more quickly. That kind of thing that could be another way to put some of this restlessness to good use. Yet Sometimes you can't change the feeling. You can only change what you do with the feeling and that's what ends up changing the feeling. So just keep one foot in front of the other. Don't over. Think this finish, your manuscript send it out
feedback. Do the rewrites see if an agent or publisher even bites? You know not tat. I want to be discouraging, but the shit is hard to see what the money looks like. Might be like. Are you kidding me? This is my advance right and then decide which life you want to choose, because the brutal truth that I'm not saying this to piss in your cheerios. You already know this. The brutal truth is that this decision, your stressing about it, could take years come to a head. All the energy are pouring into the question of what do I do? Who am I can I make this trade off? That energy is just better spent on doing the next thing. Stay focused. Do the work, let the pan unfolded organically because it always does good luck. Aright next up hatred and gave my mother's diagnosed as seriously mentally and has been in treatment for half my life with little to no effect on our diagnosis, I understand her disease, but it's now gone to a point where my mother is not just suicidal.
Projecting her mania onto other people, she's threatened her husband by stepped out with a knife and frequently cuts herself in her latest manic episode was more hunting than usual she's threatened to drive into the back of a semi truck to kill herself, while it still sad to think of my mom is suicidal. I cannot accept the fact that she is now potentially putting other people in danger. Here's my problem, she's been with the same psychiatrist for seventeen years and my family, and I believe he has been no help, I'm starting to think that I need to get a court order for a mental health about John I'm designated as her medical power of attorney, but I'm not sure how I should go about this, especially given that you lives in another state. Where do I start signed managing mom with great aplomb One very sorry that you and your mom are going through this. My heart does go out to you guys. Serious mental illness is Extror narrowly hard? Obviously it's even harder when it lasts for decades. So your mom she's struggling in a major way- and it sounds like its falling on you to make sure she's all right and that's quite a bit
to carry, and I hope, you're holding up. Ok since you're, really asking a the question we consulted with the one and only carbon pain, top notch defence attorney in front of the show- and the first thing you see pain said he asked me to combat said- was having a medical power of attorney. That obviously gives you certain rights and abilities, but there can be sharp differences in power of attorney laws from state to state, so that the document appointing you as a away that lays your powers and responsibilities, for example, it might only be- active if your mom is incapacitated and getting her declared incapacitated. That's another headache. All its own carbon can't comment with specificity on your ability to get things done with your power of attorney other than to advise you that you should of course contact an in yours. And or in your mom state, and I totally agree with that. Being a lawyer is very much a state to state thing. That said, There are some options that carbon can chimed in on. So, first of all, if your mom
has articulated a desire to kill herself or she has a plan, the method to kill herself and definitely, if she's done both. You can kick off the process to get her evaluated by what's called a crisis team and that term differs from state to state, but every state has some version of a crisis team. It's a local hospital or a mental health hospital would be able to point you in the right direction. It get started with that. This is basically a team of psychological professionals can evaluate someone on the spot and make a recommendation for somebody to be committed to a mental health institution and your right, your mom is posing a risk to herself and other people, and that is a major cause for concern. So I understand why this might be necessary. Now your mom as opposed to entering a facility. She can only be, it for a short amount of time, but that time could be extended by an order of the court in carbon said not to worry about the court proceedings, the hospital usually handles that, depending on the power,
the attorney Andrew states laws. You might be able to agree to certain things, even over your mom's objections. As for dealing with her current psychiatrist, carbon did say that you can contact the hospital and express some of your concerns about this person. They should be able to speak with you. Since you have power of attorney. They can review metal history at your mom's medical history- and if they are concerned about the psychiatry too, they might be able to work you're a change and service providers as a condition for her release. Again this really depends on state law and even if they don't have a problem with the psychiatrist, per se- or they can't mandate a change, they should still be putting a plan together for her treatment posed release and the psychiatrist would be required to follow that in theory, rent the last option- carbon men, and is this you might want to consider pursuing a conservator ship now conservator ship. A very controversial they're not always clean and they really true should be used as a last resort carbon,
it said it he's a hundred percent hashtag free Brittany for the record, but conservator ships, they can be abusive. I agree, but if Dealing with somebody with lifelong mental health issues, which is threatening to self in a manner that would also endanger other innocent people. Then it conservator ship might be the lesser of two evils now under a conservative ship, you could make important, go calls even over moms objections, not phone calls, but like decisions- include having her evaluated, having committed changing her medical service providers, this is probably your best bet for keeping her safe and healthy. Just know that it'll require an attorney to get it filed and does not cheap and, like I said wouldn't go here, if a you haven't exhausted all of your other options and be neutral we believe that this is your only reliable way to keep your mom safe, and I'm really sorry that you have to make these kinds of calls these decisions. I can only imagine how difficult this must be, but as long as
truly acting in your mom's best interest, I think you're in the right and legal stuff aside. I would also make for the you're taking care of yourself. there's a lot for anyone to handle being a caretaker, that's an intense role, especially for somebody who seriously mentally ill so make sure that your finding the resources and activities you need to therapy. If you're not Already, there exercise sleep sallow time, Oh do dear Hobbes, whatever all of that you, you can't be effective here, if you're not healthy too, so we're sending you all of our best thoughts here. Good luck hope you that I want to thank everyone who wrote in this week and everyone who listen. Thank you for that. Go back and check out Doktor Jack Schaefer, two parts this week, if you haven't yet on how to get people to like and trust you always, is a useful set of skills, and if you want an, I managed to book all these people. I've got a great network. I'm teaching you how to make a network is well and dig that well before you get thirsty using our course six minute, networking again totally free on the think, if it platform
Jordan, harbinger dot. Com, slash course did takes a few minutes a day I really strongly recommended the Ceta habits. I wish it is deaf. Twenty years ago, Jordan, harbinger dot com, slash course is where you find it a link. Shown us, for this episode can be found at Jordan, Harbinger not come transcripts or in the shadows, Videos are honor you to channel Jordan, harbinger dot com such youtube, I'm at George, harbinger on both Twitter and Instagram, or just hit me on linked in he can find gave on Twitter at gay Ms Raw he or on Instagram at Gabriel. Ms right, this shows created. Cessation with podcast one. My team is Jen Harbinger, J Sanderson, Robert Frogeity and bared milieu, Campo, Josh, Ballard and, of course, Gabriel misread our advice Opinions- those are our own. Do your own research before emblem, Anything you here on the show same applies to carbon pain, advice than anybody else on the show that we have consulted Doktor Margolis his input as general psychological information based on research in clinical experienced its intended to be general,
informational in nature. It does not represent or indicate and establish clinical or professional relationship with those inquiring for guidance. Remember we rise lifting others share the show with those you love. If you found this episode useful, please show the show was somebody who can use the advice we gave here today. In the meantime, do your best to apply what you hear show you can live. What you listen and we'll see you next time, you're, looking for another episode of the Jordan Harbinger, show to sink or teeth into here's a trailer for another episode that I think you might enjoy, give you not with yourself and Patty Devil move your life in a positive cause, you're starting from a point the fantasy Nobody can succeed with himself ready the doors all talk to people in business seminars and in a single John, my labour costs this market crises commotion caused by tat class inside can raise your eminence by thirty percent. You wouldn't
Of course lots of people have you young, because it's the ultimate pacified every that exists, and I wonder if we focus on top which means I wake up in the morning and the first thing I do. How do I make myself right now? Hideaway dry rep? That is the first thing I have to do then I can deal with all the other things that I have is nothing more important to an entrepreneur, then rest and wake up every morning and think about whether you first thing we should do in Africa. And I must say something still such lumpy Sometimes when I go to these businesses- and I see a boy tat, people say he's been applied, it should be the man now if he's been aboard ten years and he hasn't bubbled up than usual guy, who should be some people. of people where they are and you promoting right out of that. Guy he's little boy tended to tell you why
the person is not comfortable, whose bobbing up and around that's the one who should be promoted even if they're going to come on. I don't believe you can make up. We can train earlier on. We can make the pied piper. You would have followed If we do leadership is boy snuck. In furthermore, no nonsense. Business advice with bar rescue star John Taffir check out episode, one forty, two of the Jordan Harbinger Shell.
Transcript generated on 2022-03-04.