David Buss (@profdavidbuss) is considered the world’s leading scientific expert on the evolutionary psychology of human mating strategies. He is the author of several books on the subject, most recently When Men Behave Badly: The Hidden Roots of Sexual Deception, Harassment, and Assault.What We Discuss with David Buss:
- Why, from an evolutionary standpoint, the reproductive interests of males and females sometimes diverge.
- Why metabolizing alcohol differently makes women more susceptible to an expectation of bonding (and how some men exploit this).
- The Dark Triad traits that mark the men most likely to have short-term relationships and cheat.
- How do women use active signaling to show they're more open to short-term relationships?
- She's not playing hard to get. If she rejects you softly, it isn't an invitation to try harder -- it's a survival tactic meant to avoid prompting a violent reaction.
- And much more...
Full show notes and resources can be found here: jordanharbinger.com/573
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This is an unofficial transcript meant for reference. Accuracy is not guaranteed.
This episode is brought to you by data Icu, the only a platform that connects data endures through every day. I everyday data, Icu customers are turning complex data into tangible results fuelling cases from the mundane to the moon shot, because it's only day until you make it a business strategy or challenge and entire industry. Without you, it's just data visit data. Who dot com to learn more. That's DE eighteen May I call you dot com, It's so nice out, they're out there, Mexico Markets, where Chile stretching the sun high in the mountain air between that country, skis and kids do in the first snowplow or next the pole after a long day of forgetting what day it is with us here to get out of there and come home all asked and asked that went away and when you Evelyn travellers, inexpedient member, you can travel even more. it's so nice out there. So less guy expedient made to travel times apply Sisyphus details coming up. Next, on the Jordan Harbinger show here, if you look at
compare men who have fears with man you're done of affairs, there's no difference and how happy there with their marriage, something like that percent. It is like because she was there, it was just different. It was a physical thing. The maternity arose women about something like seventy percent or more become up. finally evolve with their affair partner and fall in love with their fair partner, and so I think that, what's going on as the affairs function as a mate switching adaptation, because women are looking to either exit cost inflicting or sub optimal made relationship said divest themselves of that partner, their toll in the water said speaking the bathing water to see. If there's someone better out of work or use the affair as a means of transitioning out of their relationship either by trading, for training back in the maiden market
welcome to the show I'm Jordan Harbinger on the Jordan Harbinger show we decode the stories, secrets and skills of the world's most fascinating people we have. Conversations with people at the top of their game, astronauts, entrepreneurs, spies and psychologists, even the occasional fortune, five hundred c o national security adviser or former jihadi. Each episode turns our guests wisdom into practical advice that you can use to build a deeper understanding of how the world works and become a better critical thinker. If your new to the show or you're looking for a handy way to tell your friends about the show, our episode starter pacts are a good way to do it. These are collections of your favorite episodes organised by popular topics to help new listeners, get a taste of everything that we do here on the show business Jordan, Harbinger, dot, slash start to get started or to else, get started with us and of course, I always appreciated when you do Now today, on the show my friend,
David bus. This is a fascinating look into why men cheat specifically. Why men she now today will deplore sexual selection and why it's essentially an arms race here, alongside evolution, which men are more likely to have short term relationships and sheets power dynamics, discussion here, social status. There's a lot here in terms relationships dating why the try out a sexy two women affairs. We really get into the weeds on a lot of this, a little bit about rape and sexual cohesion. So maybe, if you're gonna kids in the car or you are upset by the types of topics. You might want to skip this one, at least for now, other doesn't get to gross and graphic. So it's probably ok, especially for aid, normal mature or even a teen audience is fine, as we mostly stake scientific with this one, but it is a fascinating conversation and if you're wondering how I managed to book all these great authors, thinkers and creators every single week, it's because of my network and I'm teaching you how to build your network for free over
Jordan Harbinger of outcomes, slash coarse and most of the guests on the show, subscribe and contribute to the course come join us you'll, be in smart company where you belong now. Here's David Bus, men cheat and women like cycles? That's what I took from the book. Am I missing anything quite a watch but seriously really interesting reed and it starts off with sexual selection, evolution being kind of like an arms race right there's these back and with changes in species or in sexes too, send against reported. It seems we have to say this, but to defend slash, get around the defences. Can you give us an example? You use the spider in the book, so basically, Gmail spiders in this species have evolved to copulate with a male It presents a nuptial gets them. It's typically like a dead insect wrapped in silk
issues that are so one reason wiser wrapped himself. Well, what is it the female while to unravel the silks and get it the package and that allows the mail the copulate with her while it's happening, but sometimes mankind men males The spider species can't find a very attractive morsel of food, and so they rapid the trash, and so am I fool the female kinship revealing that it's a tasty morsel females. evolve to detect if it's true centre these are trash. males and evolve counter strategies to leave the dread. The performer meal. There also, the females and sometimes trotted grab the shrewd and run away without copulating, with the May onset male, sometimes like cling onto the silk, sometimes faint, being dead,
you know, and then, while the female goes to respond as eating the food source, sprint saliva copulate, whether further either this coalition arms race- and this is Just one example among a hundreds and hundreds of course, wish. My arms race in the bottom line is that from now on, an evolutionary perspective, the reproductive interests they also females sometimes average, and I mean started happening want to build years ago with the origin of sexual reproduction itself, and once you have sexual reproduction. You have two species and the optimum mating strategy. The optimal men tragic for once differs from the US for the other been so each sex evolve adaptation to influence. to manipulate the other, be closer to its optimum and the then that will select for counter adaptations. Defenses too being manipulated and to influence the other. So one analogy that I use in the book is a site yeah,
we'll under two pairs of hands on the steering wheel. One pulled one direction the other pulling in the other direction. These corporation arms races occur in many domains. About. In the new book on the mating markets, on the mating market, sexual com within mating relationships once they form sexual conflict over whether break up will occur sexual conflict in the aftermath of a break up, and then I too also talk about zero. Broad brush overview talk about a sexual harassment in the workplace stocking a partner, violence and sexual assault, and women's defend since against sexual assault. And if I could step one more sort of a broad brush, strokes view here when I started writing a book when you do co arms race as a kind of have to treat both sexes in the equation,
and so I got through about five chapters in the book: the sexual conflict, so women, as was meant deceive, and the mating market, women, now as commit infidelity women. It Well, as man commit financial infidelity other domain, I talk about the boy within relationships having secret bank accounts. Orton credit cards are having the bill. Male to your office rather than harm. Financial infidelity is wrong, but instead the second half of the book. You get to the more extreme forms of sexual conflict where you're bypassed female choice. Certainly things like sexual harassment. Intimate border violence stocking densities was so weird men more and more to have a monopoly on these forms. sexual violence that bypassed nl choice, and so more and more as I got the more extreme examples I had to try, males as the
offenders and females the defences females have evolved to prevent their female just from being bypassed. fair, yet this makes sense. The spider example kind of reminds me of how dating profiles. Men are likewise five, nine, but you know it's shoes on I'm kind of five eleven which is really close to six feet, so I'm just gonna put sixty that Canada and then the woman's like wait, a minute, I'm wearing heels, and I'm a lots all the new right now what happened here now I got too late, you're at their rights, the driver I met. I that's the mail. The human example of the spider right peace attraction is silver may also be rounded up on high. They exaggerate their status, their income, but women. Do it as? Well me women's shave off about fifteen pounds, often their weight and about sex.
post photographs that are not, let's say, representative of what they actually look like yeah. I definitely remember a few of those day till I was single for unlike ok, you neglected to tell me that you are actually yes under five feet. Tall like that was not part, not that it mattered to me that much, but it's like you know, you might wanna that's kind of a thing that you might wanna throughout their when your foot- eight, ok, but it You guys rent for lorries and then just let everyone think it's their career, and then they hang out at their villa. That's not their village, their friends, and it's like I'll. Just hang out of my villa. What's that my, but I can use at any time I want so it's kind of mine, not not anytime. I want it's belongs to my friends cousin, but like pretty much like there's a lot of rounding going around here. Indeed, I tell a story in the book we're going to talk and early, and my shows pick me up in just remember guinea and this and he pulled up to the curb I get chambers all came out, one or two six selfies of themselves
with the Lambert gaining utter no dinner ass. They were posted those on Facebook or on their internet dating accounts, but you get that here that makes sense, I'm it's hard to say, there's sort of this inexplicable tendency for a lot of men to just be like. I saw this car. Here's me near this car that I saw but you're right, it's the sub text is I have access to this car in some way right. Otherwise, what's the point that you just saw something that I can find on, Google, it doesn't really make a lot of kind of Logical sense, if you're not assuming, there's a there's a nexus there that they want other people to assume, even if they're out, even think it about a consciously. I wonder what you think is that, behavior so hard wired in us that even his baggage handlers. guys who are working at the airport may not be posting it on their dating profile. They're. Just like I want to selfie with that car, and it's just I don't know why. I do not think it about why they're not think about how they're gonna use it. It's just like a thing where they go status. Symbol. Let me
myself in the same frame here? I'm sure that for some it's like that and then for some once you have those photos on creating an internet dating profile. This looks like a nice, but I think I'll put that one yeah right. It just so happens that I happen to have this in my favorites saved. He arose I thought it was interesting- is a little bit of attending that thought. It was interesting how the hall in women is metabolize differently and creates an expectation of bonding. Can you speak too that a little? But I think a lot of women are gonna rethink their one night stands when they hear this, but I just never had heard this before the water a couple things you know what one is that alcohol affects women were severe Then man even cracking for binding way. In essence, not spotty where women are more sensitive to outfall, but the second thing It appears to release chemicals that are related the bonding the emotional bonding adaptation, and so women have alcohol
Then they engage in section. I feel at that time that there's this strong relationship occurring more from the start of a relationship when it is in fact not the out the hall, fooling their brains into believing that that it exists, and I remember when I wrote my first book, the evolution. desire strategies at human mating. I had whole section on on the important food and made and feeding the woman and so forth, and I I gave it to one of my graduate students whose circle that New said the David meat need, but liquor is quicker com, yeah yeah doesnt put man good light, but we know that this is. This. Is a strategy menus on you know and for ideas and university campuses around this other one, so give those giving a talk up and down- and it was part of the universities- attempted to get donations the university and said sometimes they dragged me out and have me, give a lecture on mating, to amuse the donors? Have anywhere talk
to the donor, who is very wealthy and then his wise and ass. She introduced herself and she said hi, I'm the trophy wife yeah. So I said to have it. So how did you guys I was asked. How did you has been so well? He came up to her He saw her and he basically bribed the bar tender that keep her wine glass full. at all times, and so she didn't quite realise how much she was drinking, but it turned out. Work and bans that Mary, oh, my God, that I mean this is one of those
obviously ended up, ok, kind of situations, but also really could not what if she had a drive, unlike that that's the least of there's so much wrong with his. What it's completely normalized in our society like I'll yeah, you know get a couple of drinks in and it'll be fine and like world. So what you're saying is diminish our ability to exercise good judgment and sleeping with you like this? It's really kind of not ok at all, and that's not even like a woke thing is just like. Even looking back my colleges in the nineties an early dodds, it never really sat right because it's like winning the game but you're doping, kind of and also you can hurt the other person. Just doesn't say right: you don't sit right in what he thinks it does is outlawed, disables women's, not just their judgment. There, Augmented ability to process information accurately, but also weakens their physical bill. to defend themselves, should sexual assault b and making them
The sexual assault later on in the show, is there's quite a bit on that in the book, which honestly must have been pretty uncomfortable to writer. Very we'll get there in a bet, two men are most likely to have you call it what term relationships and cheat rather certain types of men that do this more or our more pro yeah. So it's basically, it's called Dark Triad of personality services, narcissism, Macchiavelli Nazism and Psychopathy combined with What your men strategy so hot, of narcissism is high, scores tend to be grandiose. They think they're, God's gift to manage their man. They think they're more attractive, more intelligent, more higher and make value than they really are and import we have more in our seas, have a sense of entitlement they feel like. deserve because they're so great, a larger share of the pie, and that extends the sexual run. They have a greater sense of sexual entitlement MAC
Well, you know some people who pursue assure a minute it is an exploitative, social strategy. So these are the wires, the cheaters, the deceivers, and they view other people as pawns to be moved around just said the shots by their own selfish, and then psychopathy. One of the hallmarks is lack of empathy, so most people feel passion when someone is heard were a dog gets hit or injured psychopaths, don't they might last one some gets injured or or packets injured. So these are it's like most men's. Ninety five percent of us have, I'm a normal empathy circuit sense of compassion. It's like it severed with these I squeeze on psychopathy, said: combine these three elements of the dark Triad, narcissism, psychopathy and gone, is you combine that with a short term, mating strategy? This is the same.
set of guys who are most likely to sexually her. Ass to deceive too deuce and abandon and also the sexually assaulted, and so it's one things that I hope people. My book is not good male bashing, sell it all members, man, nothing find it things. sexual harassment or sexual coercion. Be morally abhorrent and would never engage in any actions like that. But this subset of men high Dark Triad, men, short remaining strategy. They are the ones who are cereal harassed Sincere, your coursers We see a lot of this in the media right now. What do you think this is a little bit off topic in talk about this in the boat, but I'm wondering do you think that is a. stronger presence of dark, try it
rates and people that make it to the top of politics and the media, or are we just hearing about those particular instances because those people are at the top of politics in the media? Yeah, that's a great question and I dont know I mean it's possible amid the people who were higher Burke Triad do see gout position the status and leadership and so forth, and so they might be in fact overrepresented among politicians and other forms of leaders, but I It is interesting that you know that who has hit the media are kind of classic examples of the star. Like Harvey one or Jeffrey Upstate, classic examples. manipulative narcissistic and have Empathy for the harm that their inflicting on their sexual victims is, I think it linked to note also that this common makes my point the cereal harassers in Syria, sexual Salter's, so the The small percentage of man committing a large majority of these actions.
Sure violence which, fundamentally by hence female choice and its want things that unites all these different forms. A sexual conflict that I talk about in the book is female choice. Is like a number one law making. You know who that is Women have the have evolved, the desire to use when, where, with him and under what circumstances they have sex and these male efforts like sexual harassed, My sexual assault stocking intimate partner. Violence basically function the bypassing, a choice it that's what they're aim that aim to maybe like the female to basically mate with him, as opposed to someone else or not matter,
here we can get into some of the the mate guarding stuff gets like. It goes creepy fast, actually and we'll talk about that in a bit. I want to talk as well about the power dynamics right. So if someone gets more wealthy or their status goes up or their career takes off and they get famous form, I don't know they do a big pod character of these people, hypothetically more likely to cheat on up partner or upgrade a relationship and we'll talk about the make guarding and stuff like that in the bed. But I'm curious about this because it seems like a lot of cheaters that we see in the media again could be the same bias that these people are already famous. Just seems like these guys can't help themselves. these politicians, these people who were talk, show whose son TV they just can't keep it in their pants there, gets the issue make value discrepancy. So when there's a mate voting discrepancy such as the man or woman Dick was their cases that to dramatically as in status. Then
the higher may die, person is statistically more likely to cheat or more likely to exit the relationship and trotted trade up in the mating market. Again, it's not all. Saving movie stars for exam but there are some, for example, Could you imagine Tom Hanks doing that No, but it always surprised this year. I can surprise us here, like it comes out of nowhere real like all back. I would never do that. Netteke. Oh, I mean look at bill. Cosby rival, this was the quintessential like how he's like a respectable guys get an education agreed on one now turns out. He was just a total scumbag, the old idea that was baffled, yeah import because there Reputation was at the action was said, discovered from the reputation you know, whereas carving lines dean take another famous
ample. He had a reputation, I mean it was widely known. Seasoned actresses, warned of incoming averages just picture. You dont be alone with him in a major someone else's around. So there's a worse because we had no refuge. John they're, all avenues? As far as I am aware, I remember this clip from Courtney, love saying something like that. Do you have any advice for people? breaking into the scene in Hollywood and she sort of joke but definitely not. Joking. Twenty twenty hindsight said: if Harvey I invite you to a party at the Beverly Hills, hotel, don't go and should like walks off camera in every one. Was that what a funny dig this guy, that maybe she's friends with its like? No, she probably went to educate them and then knowing Courtney, love the nuts and ran out of the room, but light knows that he's been doing this for twenty thirty or forty years have along its bet right, which benefits to the point that people Time is a view rapists or sexual assaulters as soon as the losers
the game so that they have to resort to this tactic because they can't game woman to any other means, but in fact it's often the art. its guys were highly successful and can get away with that. You mention once you, but also Bill Riley Foreigner Didn sexually assaulted, sexually harassed in software. Then people in a position to offer women large monetary settlements with non disclosure agreements to keep quiet and again that keeps the the reputation and tat I dont know if your car he had any of those, but many these other players did. You mentioned there sort of a test where women used active signalling to show that there are more open to short term relationships. I think a lot of people would love to know why Is this tat your how to women signal that their open to short term relationships? I think the women want to know for obvious reasons and a guy's obviously want to know I mean look, I'm asking for a friend desire froze the right, but how do you spot in the world
some obvious things, are manner of dress showing a lot of skin wearing tight, fitting outfits and so forth attention is touching physically touching the guy. You know contact at last. A split second longer than it needs to these are some of the key is whatever people who say look this is paid for I called on. Sense of women should be able to address. However, they want just because she showing off Skinner Weren t clause doesn't mean she's, open to short term relationships and three here that will mean in an ideal world. People should be allowed to dress. However, they want MAC. However, they want they say, you're right stop. When your fists starts to approach my face, we don't live in an ideal world. We live in a world where there are real victims of sexual assault and sexual harassment, and so people need to know the statistical predictors of which ban likely to do it and the circumstances in which they are like they do. But if you have one
daughter one on the way, not a few months. I have a daughter- and I sure want her to know this. Information I don't want her as a father to get sexually assaulted and software. You know the notion that we can just somehow ignore all of these queues and pretty we live in an ideal world, not maybe one at their at some point and them. It's one of the reasons I wrote the book as I hope we do get there, because these forms of actual violence, the bypass female choice or truly too and they happen to a large number of women, all the people who care about them- the fathers, the brothers, the male friends, that female friends, the mothers all the People who have a stake in the interest these victims and they saw for as well, so called secondary victims in some who, only by a deeper causal understanding of what gives rise. These forms of sexual violence can we have any hope of reducing its occurrence. It really
It is a shame, and I want to be very clear that, like dressing in yoga outfits that show mid riff and type pants, I want to be really clear that, like this is one your right and two it is over To wear that you are not causing guys to sexually assault you. They are actually just horrible people that do this, that victimize others. It may increase your chances of of that happening, but I want to be really careful not to assign blame, because whenever you hear rape, victims get asked what they were wearing, I'm just like seriously white fuck you, it is terrible. I do agree with your talk about this issue of blame and the burka wondering analogies. I draws to muggy, so no one some mugging victim. Oh, did you for it right whatever it's like. It is a crime and there is a victim and the same is true with sexual assault or sexual harassment. These are crimes in and there are victims in so identifying some of the statistical predictors The circumstances in which they occur does not allow
the ape man of being jockey of these crimes, and it does not a war, designing a blind to the one we even have women having to reject men in ways that are less likely to cause violent reactions can explain this. Can you speak to this a little, but this is also kind of a disturbing trend that we have now or probably in that year, so we bourbon sexually integrated workplaces, at least in many domains, and perhaps not the sewers meaning, which is predominantly may all, but many workplaces in the ones I inhabit. Our are sexually integrated and Anna and mating adaptations. Mating psychology gets activated in these contexts. Women have do their forced into this uncomfortable position when their say sexually harassed in the workplace to do called the soft rejections- in other words, guy comes on them in the inner. Instead of saying, look a buzz off creep, I'm not interested you're, a total loser, they have to say things like or they do say things to minimize the retribution,
from the guy so like I have a boyfriend or I can't go out here this week and I'm busy, and so they do things try to minimize the revenge, or retribution that they might get from that rejection, because guys feel angry when they get rejected, I mean even go back to the door, and you may be too young to remember this group, Jim Morrison Doors, fair, yet come on item forty. I heard that there is a line and one of the sun the strange days out where women seem wicked when you're on want mean a man develop. This anger to being sexually rejected, and so women, Our current forced its position in the workplace at having to minimize that anger, because they, if the guy's a boy, so even coworker men do act with vengeance, sometimes- and so unfortunately, these projections also sometimes invite further come on. So like your business, how about next weekend
you have a boyfriend? Is he in town right now, and so the soft projections sometimes don't have the effect of shutting down entirely. But it's just a really unfortunate buying that this puts women in workplace in yeah, it's not even just in the workplace right we hear about this all the time. Women have to do a lot of work, not till I cause. Actually, let me rephrase that inadvertently be the cause of men. Reacting spurned or violently just kind of stuff have to worry about this, like the idea that I can't tell someone politely that I'm not interested in them, because I might get brutally assaulted and or murdered, is not really a like a great indicator that we are handling this problem very well as men or as a society a minute plenty of guys like them, a vast majority of guys. Don't do this, but I use read it. I see forums about in cells. Were these guys we're like just so toxic and the things that they say in there I mean there's.
Are clearly really going to the heads of some guys and it's really like scary. Even for guys, it's scary, dizzy Zia, indeed mass. Why did you not? Most men are fine, these tactics of sexual violence to be morally abhorrent him thus it. But you know what I would say. As you know, I'm aware of that talk a little bit about the in cells in the new book in what I would advise, vice in cells, improved your mate value helping involuntarily celebrate big, sometimes get ready, I that there attracted to women who are not attracted to them but pay improve your makes out the is that women desire many different attributes and potential mates. Just physical and but also health, physical, fitness, Annabelle personality, emotional stability is the guy there, you now in times of need and so forth, as well as social status, and so these are things that are to some
the under individual control, and so you can improve your mate value and make yourself more attractive to women, rather just stupid getting angry about the fact that women want you and cases somebody's insults laxity most girls. Yeah answer, men on four a man more than memoranda beyond the asked, besides Spectrum side of the disorders, psychological disorders and one of the features its failure of mind meeting, said he's geyser, Ashley bad. It correctly inferring the wants desires and beliefs of the opposite sex, and so, but those things, regard as well. Social skills can be learn more accurate mine reading can be learned, was actually want. The goals of the book is de facto as some unpleasant as this might be to some Male and female sexual psychology are fundamentally different and share.
To appreciate the fact that the different or understand that there are different and the ways in which their different causes a lot of failures of cross sex, mind reading. So you have things like Dick picks guy sending On the one hand, they think somehow one's gonna be turn out by this. We know, men are defined attracted essentially aroused by deacon? actualize images of women's Breton genitals and set forth in baking for some how women are gonna, be turned on by their taken tat, choice, Dick and they're. Not swim and find them just Gregson, and so this is a good example of a profound failure of mind. Reading your listening to the Jordan Harbinger Shell with our guest David Bus, we'll be right back. Thank you, Much for listening to and supporting the show episodes like this are fascinating for me. I know you like him as well as a here for me all the time please you consider supporting those who may-
this show possible, namely our sponsors and all those deals and codes? You just heard you don't have to worry about writing down. We put em all in one place on the website, Jordan. Harbinger dot. Com. Slash deals is where they are all in order all available from your phone all those code. So please do use those codes and think of us wonder shopping online, or you hear some interesting on the show. Again. That's Jordan, Harbinger, dotcom, slash deals. Dover. We have worksheets for many episodes. If you want some of the drills and exercises talked about during the show, all in one easy place, the worksheets are linked in the show notes at Jordan, harbinger dot com, slash podcast, now back to David Bus, I don't know. If you recall, we ve, had conversations in the past four years. I used to run a business literally teaching guys, not necessarily in cells of course, but like guys how to improve, made values, social status without just becoming more wealthy or getting a six back. For example, and one of the main concept I mean I did it for eleven years. One of the main concept was the mistake: the idea that men
and women think alike, and we don't really see this rakers we're inside the jar, so we can't really say like ok. This is how women think, and this is how men think we just think, we'll all humans, think alike. So, of course, if I like this, other people are going to like this or, if I respond to this, other people are going to respond to this and it causes a lot of frustration. I mean it's not just the Dick picks, but it's also the idea that certain status symbols might mean certain things to one gender or sex and not the other, and it just drive. People absolutely insane sometimes to violence, as we just sort of hinted at here year. I think that's! You know precisely that we're Some profound way we're stuck in the interior of our own minds and brains, and we have to make inferences about what's going on in the mines and brains of other people, and if those people are members of the opposite sex, you need They have some knowledge about that.
These other minds and brains. You when it comes to sex and sexual psychology are fundamentally different. We now know a lot about the ways in which they are different, and so I think that that chasm kid be bridged to some degree. Just men who were off by the way. Women are often well yeah. Women. Don't fully understand different male, all sexual psychology from from thereon. Have you ever done? I read this somewhere in a friend of a friend. Is trans mail so used to be a woman and is now a man? He told me that he now after taking hormones for like a decade and things like that, he now is like. Oh, I why guys are so obsessed with sex like this is not a hobby it's not Thank you really like. It is like a biological imperative you wake up in the morning and you feel like you needed so bad. You can't even function. Sometimes this has been triggered in his brain by the you know.
Of male hormones that your he's been taking for so long means facial hair. Now we are so it's a full, the whole gamut and he just because sort of chuckling with me- and I was like now- you know how probably not even a teenage boys feels like turned up to eleven and that's a teenage boys. You know you're an adult. It comes down a little. I don't know what's going on with the hormones in the brain, because we can compare the meter so to speak, but I should like this, but all day and your front of women who are at your age in high school, and it's just twenty four. Seven like how you doing your mouth homework right, you lot right, yeah, I know that's why I mean I think this disease. For sexual variety and cranked up libido cranked upsets drive the response. said sexual responsiveness to visual choose which were bombarded with every day. These are not blessings. You know actually got an email recently from an eighty five year old, guys guys. Eighty five- and he said after reading my book, that he understood
he said his brain, tortures him every day, walking down the street in the women he passes his brain, tortures and by evaluating them on how sexually attracted their and eighty five, probably can't do it think about it right at this isn't a blessing that guys have a say you're psychology that is so obsessed with sex and with it What use that word bombarded by You know another way of framing, that is that most men, vassal Juryman or a tree. The women who have no it. action to them. That is their attraction. Reciprocated, and so Maybe if you were a famous rock star our if you're Nick Jagger, were famous actor. you can fulfil many of your sexual desires, but for most men we can't tell me about it, so triad you mentioned this is sexy for many women. What is it
These men are doing you kind of mentioned the sexy son hypothesis. I'd love to talk about this more because I think that this is something that sort of scares women and it helps to flesh out and understand this a little bit more, especially the vulnerability to the dark triad. Yeah. Well, so dark. Try guys are often dreary. Charm a very exciting they're off very socially skilled they put themselves at the centre of attention, and we know that statuses, import determined by the attention structure highs dead people. Those to whom the most people pay the most attention? So attention is Medical research and the attention structure influences that high dark. Try again, put themselves in the centre of attention. They are often very charismatic. They have verdict, stories and found the group, and so there accused the status of women are attracted to stabs, also the risk pick these guys are risk takers said they have the confidence, and that's another thing. Women are attracted to you, as you well know, is self confidence
these animals. We cannot take each other at our work. Seems so confident that he must have a lot going for, and so they play a lot of characteristics that women find very attractive in the short run, but geyser disasters and the long because their statistically more likely to cheat more likely to release the woman get into our bank accounts abandoned cheat on her, be unfaithful trade up drop of a hat so long term aid. These guys are disastrous, but women are attracted to especially younger women, I should say, are attracted to them, for short term mating as women get a bit and yet more experience on the matting markets. They are less and less attractive these guys. What about dark Triad, women. This has to be a thing, Well, so there are fewer dark triad- women, especially with the cycle Component that shows the largest sex difference where it something like three
males are higher than women on psychopathy their sex? France on nurses, but you do get dark, try it. Women now talk about them in the look as well These are women who are more likely to make poach so late. Feel any moral qualms about sleeping with their friends boyfriend. husband behind, engage in make coaching either for short term or a longer term relationship, and they also attend use. Their sexuality instrumental weights and sat there. For example, if you ask, who is this children are women who sleeps with the boss. In order to get a promotion, it's dark. Try at women who tend to do that actually knew specific case in academia, were a woman who was applying job at this university and had slept with the chair of the search committee. Now she had the job parent. You said the hypothesis before I start that that university, but I found out
got it now, but she was so to be avoided. Did that come to light. I just I knew various players who were both around and involved at the time and they communicate the information to me Why so everyone knew well, I'm everyone knew, but let's put it this way. I wasn't a secret where is she now job as opposed to other more qualified candidates? yeah its guises can control ourselves. I guess I don't know what I'd love to talk about affairs and backup mates as well as this. We see this play out all over the place right. It puts a major den and our idea of romance in Seoul maids, not that I've ever believed in that stuff either. I just think you're tourism- yes, that's true, I definitely probably out, but I'm not wrong right. Science shows that there's a mean this is this is accurate, yeah. Well, we ve lost to make wise making decisions and with backup I mean this is one of the things that surprised me as it. Even people who are in hand
relationships, cultivate backup, maize and it makes good sense that they should, because You ve taught by over human evolutionary history. Something could always a rock in your make good dump you you're you're from a woman's perspective. Her partner could get injured and a club fight or get killed in a war. So if a woman was forced to serve start the maid search from square one that would be lessened hey just then she called the baby. The backup made should something bad happened. her relationship or her regular pardon, and so I think it's a wise strategy, we don't think about it- may be disturbing two men to think o my girlfriend. Our way. is actually cultivating backup potential make he's just a frown, but it's subconscious to right. It's not necessarily like okay. If my husband croaks, I'm going after that, the attorney not a role model, you do see it play out the right like you have. I want to mention other people, but on the show, but you see
people and they ve been researching for like forty years and then their partner researching with him, passes away and then now they're like partnered up with that guy's wife when you're like ok it look bad, but it could just that they were all very close and then, when this guy passed away, it's like, while whose my back maybe I'm not going out to the club and sixty five years old. I ve noticed, I for twenty years we have a relationship, were pretty close. It's sort of a hop skipper to jump to a romantic relationship with everyone's more taken care of the I've. Seen that a number of times as well- but I mean Humans have evolved to made anywhere sexually reproducing species, and we try to make wise making decisions one. We don't always succeed, but in since we are all evolutionary success stories. You know we'd descent, come along and unbroken line of ancestors. Each of them succeeded in a trap, a maiden having sex with a maiden doing enough staff to
to use a child and raise their child reproductive age and so, As descendants of these successful ancestors, we carry with us the mating wisdom that lead to their success. These include a tactics of attraction, backup mates to meet switching to divesting themselves of a customs, letting me maybe Jackson tactics it's interesting, but also probably makes being in itself that much harder right, like oh there's, only a few hundred thousand generations of young people being able to do this, and you are the last year the guy who can't I'm one of the problems in the modern farm has to do with sex ratio, so ancestrally others from small hundred gathered groups as many as thirty thirty, five percent of men died in warfare and other activities. mortality rate among males much higher incessantly, and we, Men are more susceptible to diseases of riding sorts from them.
when have conception all the way up here. I think the second conversion Eighty yourself and so weapon, it is actually there were fewer men around and a lot more women in sexual show, you ve all the circle. said women, whereas in the modern, environmentally conquered many of the things that car, DA mayor ancestors to die I am even casual, he's from war are mine fraction, what they were historically and This set treasure unbalance no longer exists. In fact, in many cultures ass. It may also like in China, when they the one child policy of centres, whole generation because they favoured males male children whole generation of males in our own enough women to go around here by followers quite a bit in their sight parks were older, people will stand in the park with a picture of their son and a little bit of resume data and other people who have an unmarried woman will walk around and be like. Ok, he seems our right and it's like
I hear from so these guys were involved in this who are single and in China and They are looking at its pretty dismal right, like you can be of employed guy who's, graduated from a university and you're grandma is trying to marry you off to somebody that you would never even look at twice. You know who's in a fifty. Fifty society with the equal number of males and females would never be even remotely in your Lee, like you would just would never bother, and there like. This is your choice. There are villages where there are like three women and fifty men. You know ratios and sort of small town, China and ate the guys have just decided were never never gonna have their impossible cities the guys. It's basically a virtual requirement: the Esta on his own apartment and a car yeah, so financial resources way, I'm shockingly yeah
surprise, a browser, but yet a secular issue issue is really interesting. I remember not too long. I gave a talk, Texas, Christian University, where there is a surplus of women about sixty percent women, forty percent man and the sea. And described it exactly where you did that the guys who would normally Serbia five are an aid such Christian Universal and shocked at the guys who had previously God, the t see you and they get this kind of glass. Look in their eyes. They remember fondly that's one time in their life when they experienced high mate value If we get that surplus of women the home, system should more towards short term mating, because men become more reluctant to commit taken. Carry on the shore remain strategy. More successful. Women is surplus when surplus of man the opposite, happens,
right right, surplus of men, it's like you ve got to invest, invest, invest, invest in order that the hence the meeting, a house and a car type of thing. If the ratio were inverted in China, culturally, they might still value having a house in a car, but it might also be like well make an exception in this tat right they'll get there like out if they are exactly so obvious, why him like that? It's a practical piece of advice, something go to mating markets where you are the rarer sex. You will have more trust in to men and women. One of those in doing things in the modern world is that in colleges and universities there isn't a shirt Thus, if women in the vast majority of them in part women are more conscientious, they get better grades coming up in other, more qualified to get in and porn have some effect of diminishing mayo ambition on this, but the bigger seconds are things like engineering schools like MIT, your child, tat, Withers, the surplus of men. So if I were,
person just getting on the main market in deciding where to go. Take a soul, environment, where you were the rarer sex rather than the sexes in surplus, that makes sense right. So, if you're going to an engineering school start taken dance classes or somethin yoga, I don't get the ratio somewhere right, because otherwise it's looking pretty bleak for guys. Europe is often good bet. You Mammy environment, because shiver classes are me, I have a majority when yeah does make sense, so let's talk about why men and women have affairs. I think, for men were talked about this a little bit before right varieties, just kind of a biological imperative a lot of men. Think women do this as well, but it's for different reason. Absolutely so one hallmarks that is the studies of the basque people. Why did you haven't affair and for men? Unlike seventy percent, it is like because she was there, it was just german. It was a physical thing, the operative Jody arose.
Women, about something like seventy percent or more becoming finally evolve with their affair partner and fall in love with their fair partner, and so I think there What's going on as the affairs function as a mate, switching adaptation This is a point of departure where a point in which I have some disagreement with my evolution, psychology, colleagues, who argue basically there are fears, are all about getting good genes from one guy and getting investment from the other guy. I argued that the mate switching hypothesis explains all more of the question of why women have affairs it is. Women are looking to either exit a cost. Selecting or sub optimal maiden relationship said divest themselves of that partner. their toeing the water said speaking the manning to see if the someone better out, therefore, or use the affair. As a means of transitioning out of their relationship, either by trading for training back and the maiden market assigning the maid.
Switching hypothesis is a much more powerful explanation of why most women have affairs now worsen These aren't necessarily mutually exclusive as possible that a minority of women could be quote. Attempting began good genes from one guy investment for another, but it is extremely rare we see this sort of biological, while biological evolutionary reason why men have a double standard when it comes to cheating right, because many men who are in affairs are actually happy in their marriage. My right on those yes in their as happy as those who don't engage in affairs. Here. If you look at computer manual, fears with man, you don't know the fears, there's no difference in how happy there with their marriage. I found this interesting because, of course, like the primary concern that I feel like the even many therapists says that what are you not satisfied about at Home- and it's like that- just totally misses the point here that a lot of it has to do with. Like you said, opportunity or variety can be. I know guys that have cheated on their significant other and I've
then this question like what what prompted that and they like- I don't know, any answer, because then they do no, but they don't want to say well. It was just right easy for me. They would go on and on and explain that they love their family and Europe's like they're, good, dad's. The still go on vacations, all the time, their affectionate with their wives and This is a guy you treated in a sort of makes. You think like this can happen anyone, but it is surprising, but once you understand that its there still justice happy and their relationship it, It's more sense cause I'm thinkin wow, look at him, just fake it right there, but it's like it's not fake. He just wanted an opportunity in the reserve. why the mines are mating minds, have a number of different components You can be totally in love with your wife and a total family man and So you have this other thing called desire for sexual variety and those are not incompatible, they seem might seem logically inconsistent, but because there for an allocations, their psychologically consistent. What about
jealousy right speaking of having affairs and in the biological evolutionary reason. Why met because, of course, women don't want their mandate cheat and men. They want their women too cheap, but it's completely their aim. different things right, like in you mentioned that if a woman has an emotional affair, guys are concerned, but they're not nearly as concerned with it. If she ends up sleeping with someone else, where is it's the reverse for women or the exactly so unequal secondary, equally jealous, but the focus for women hence to be on. I mean this is illustrated by former state nor mine. Actually do this very cool study where he looked at verbal interrogations. When someone discovered that someone partner might be cheating, and the question of women want to know is: do you love her, and the question man want to know is: why did you have sex with a first aid on the Shirley phrase? Quite that way, but this from an irish perspective. This has to do with the problem of paternity
uncertainty. That is because fertilisation occurs within the woman, not within the man. Woman is one hunter certain she's, the mother manner, always are never one hundred percent certain they can't be unless when's under lock and key by a travelling circus. Unix guarded by challenge of units twenty four hours a day, men can ever be were, and we know that there is some reign of genetic huckleberry that exists in the modern environmental. Probably it was. Hired you at human, evolutionary history there, excellence, yeah and army. We see some societies that are structured like that, where the women live in a pretty good part of the house with the blackout, windows and can't outside without a male relative? I mean that's, probably why that exists. I said you know, I gotta be the mayo efforts to guard their sexuality and female sexuality. Isn't it extraordinarily invaluable reproductive resource- and have evolved to try to gain access to that resource and then, when they do to try to control it and prevent other men
from gaining access to that may sound clinical earlier version whatever, but these are the selective since that have given rise to our- psychology, including sexual, jealousy you mentioned in the book- the high scoring Dark Triad are more guarding and more vigilant when it comes to mate guarding. So I'm wondering is high made guarding. Is the sort of the inverse also true, that high make guarding from a boyfriend or husband, is at a major red flag and or indicator of Dark Triad, or does that kind of only go in one direction? Must suspicion is. It only goes in one direction because there are many causes of intense made. Goring. Ok value discrepancy here like a mate guy discrepancy with the lower made important doing more intense, make guarding and so it's not an invariant flag of start tried It seems like while of course, you'd want to pay attention to those things either way right, because if you ve got
value discrepancy. Do you find that people can ignore those in relation to any are not a therapist, but do you find that people can ignore those relationships, or does it just kind of always creep up? At some point, I don't know, I think it's probably always there either in the foreground or the background and it might be expressed the sun, so I'm just not as happened. with this relationship, as I used to be? That could be an indicator of Things do not necessarily have to be consciously calculating people, dont know certain thinking the terms like. Oh I'm, an eight my partners sex or are they to be an eight. But my partners decreased in make value over the last five years, and so I want to digest myself by them and see. If I can trade up in the mating market, how we don't think that where they just I'm just unhappy with this maybe it's not working for me anymore, and so we're not aware the underlying me
dynamics and reproductive logic of these phenomena unless you study for a living, This. Is the Jordan Harbinger show with our guest David Bus, we'll be right back and now, for the rest of my conversation with David Bus, it's funny. My mother in law will tell my wife looked. Jordan he's working out. Look at Jordan. He's learning chinese look adjourn he's doing this. You need to also differ, up yourself and it's funny cause my wife does develop herself all the time and she's. U dont one point five kids and I'm like it's not a thing, but her mom is like kind.
concern. You darling, hey you gotta pay attention, because you have a husband, does a lot of things and has a lot of Hobbes in is always growing and you have to grow with them, which is actually really good advice, even though it tries to my wife crazy, because it sort of misplaced in this instance. But it's funny that older folks will notice this just because you're, probably of life experience, has shown them that this is a phenomenon that occurs in their friends. Are there other relationships at your mother in law? Doesn't want a mate going discrepancy that creep them the relation dry exactly lower Mate, valued men problem guard more right did, I feel, like they ve lucked out getting a high status woman who's going to be hard to replace. So if, if their sort of on the disadvantage side, they my guard mafia them our garden worryin and then also sometimes resort to cost inflicting tactics like interim further violence if they lack the positive incentives, get her to stay in the relationship. Let's talk
that a little bit abuse inflicting a cause is being a sort of the animal S, a refuge of the lower may value. But maybe it really is like it's a strategy that somebody who's lower mate value might if they can't raise their main value right. They're not gonna, get higher, they might say well what I can do for, if I don't have the confidence in myself to raise my mate value. Maybe what I do is I try and chop my mate down a size urges were ruined your Orissa tactic but men do yeah to verbal abuse and physical abuse. So even things Deanna insulting a woman's appearance? You a terrible today, your ugly, your Pfizer had a year, you ve, gotten fat young, take areas opening more attempts to undermine the woman's self perceived made value through verbal, our intention or physical violence and both have. That fact is, of course, a tragic that they do, but one of the things women can do is their statistical protectors of
violence is gonna cursor. The guy starts to cut off her relationships with friends or family if he starts to put her down verbally, like insulting her appearance. if you monitors your activity like insists on knowing where she is at all times. She wants to go the question. What about these danger signs that it up invariably danger science, but their statistical predictors, of the likelihood of future violence in the relationship? I found it interesting? That you'd mentioned abuse, invokes, shame and isolation which limits social support and make less likely to leave the abuser. So it's not just them. Cutting off her relationships. It's the abuse itself causes the shame which causes self isolation. So it's almost like multiple fronts right. He doesn't just have to say here, going out with your friends today. He can just give
bruise that she doesn't want other people to see so she did, it decides to stay home or says it's not worth the fight. I don't wanna even asked to go out with my friends on Friday, because it's not worth the fight that happened in you hear this alot rights not worth the conflict, that's going to happen with him, so I'm just gonna stay home and watch Netflix Road and, like that's abusive, but we don't necessarily maybe just think. Oh he's kind of an a whole. We don't look at it disappears, but really- and maybe he doesn't- but really it is because it's designed to lower her status in other people's eyes. It has that function or were has the effect you're absolutely right. So him over it's coming off for relationships or herself isolating. Could she doesn't want her friend family to see that black guy right like the walking on eggshells, it's almost like a dangerous cycle because once she's isolated, the abuse can actually ratchet up more. I would assume one of the antidotes, maybe not
to vote, but one of the strongest protectors against abuses having of wide social circle of support, strong family connections, things like that you're absolutely bodyguards. I think this is probably the, important defence against you're assault in number into an ordinary violence, both historic the railway short time. Women did have those they lived in extended Chin groups, for they have goes fathers, brothers, shudder, matured, Evanna, female friends. May your friend in the modern environment, where we sometimes isolated from other people. Actually, especially during the pandemic, by the way, you think, there's a spike in intimate partner violence by about twenty percent, because people are cut off from their body but body words have been critical, one in four women and protect themselves against physic abuse and sexual abuse. So that's want one piece for women make sure you have that people
who care about your welfare and keep us in you talk about stocking and revenge porn as well so revenge porn lowers made value right, you're, basically, shaming or humiliating this person it can be a form of made guarding really screwed up May guarding, obviously, but it seems These are just terrible strategies, but when you look at what they do, which is lower than the value of the person that you are intending to guard like stocking, this is really surprising for me. Is that the chances of you stocking someone and then ending up reproducing with them are probably low, but they're, not zero, which is where a lot of stalkers find their chances of reproducing or where they estimate their chances. So it's almost like evolution, airily adaptive right and it also else's if I've dating someone- and they tell me soya bean, stalked by this guy and he's probably going to slash your tires and he's trying to throw a brick through your window and he's probably following me around. I don't know how he knows where I am all the time I'm going to have to re, evaluate my relationship with this person right
absolutely and one way to say that is that stalkers engagement. I'll, try, attic sexual conflict that is dead, are you trying to get them? and back they realize import, that they will never be able to replace her with a woman into equivalent made value, but be There also interfering with her attempts to mate with anybody else and exact guys, say: You hate you. I really like you big, get rid of yours a and then when you get your start or cause, that's a scary thing for guys and well one things we found in our study, using this gets back to that fundamental mating market tricks of major discrepancy. In our study of two thousand five hundred stocking victims, we found that the victims stocking tend to be much higher and make the EU and the stalkers tend to be much lower and made value. and the stock is probably realise. Often these. Are broken relationships
They deserve relationships and wish the woman guest together with the guy, sometimes breathe we sometimes over four months. Ok, for years and then breaks up, and the guy realises correctly that he's not a beautiful place, right he's thinking I got I locked out, she was down time in her life and we there's a bunch of men around and not a bunch of men around or whatever, and she had no job, and I was there to scoop or up right. You see this in movies and things like that, and then it's like the high school boyfriend comes back. Who is the cabin the football team and the guys like AL shit like this? Is it the jigsaw? and then resorts to mate guarding strategies which eventually push our away into the arms of the other guy, because he is turning into a little bit of a creep. I wanna rap on something: that's not so cheerful here in the next few minutes, which is rape and sexual coercion. I mention this before
section in the book is extensive and it must have been pretty hard to right. I know your professional, but just hearing about all these details and information. It's almost traumatized to read let alone the Lena lived through. Something like the euro was tromp tossing to write, so I d go to jail Here's to that one actual coercion. When I look at the mayo psychology eyes it and then one on women's defences. against sexual coercion which It is really the most important chapter of the book. It was starving, I mean I almost stop writing that section, because it was a disturbing and also knowing women who have been sexually assaulted and reading case a council. that's actually it's terrific because it doesn't damage its the causes, the anxiety. Depression has dramatic stress so situation. Sexual assaults, stronger, if not the most one of the most horrific things that you can do to another
individual to woman, but therefore is especially important and given its prevalence, and, of course there is conflict bout among scientists, about how prevalent in theirs, but wherever it This problem is not that we are concerned about it, I personally know a number of women who have been sexually assaulted over the course of their life Cycle by family member, sometimes on a date sometimes they had. Some alcohol Party, got sexually assaulted by fraternity, guy, so yeah. I do think that its critical that we understand the causes at it and critical that we understand the defences that can prevent it from us and so that's why that that's my think, the chapter on women's chances and the things that men, can do also to protect. Women from sexual saw is critical without understanding these fundamental cause. says, were kind of lost on it. Lets
about some of those causes, and then what men and women can do is, I think, a lot of times. Men view rape, almost as a problem, women. Have that guys don't have, but I think the way that we start to get rid of this in our society is We create systems of law, social order to get rid of sexual coercion, and we also don't say that it's not it's only a problem for half the population right, we kind of have to sell police a little bit right right, but it's not a problem for just half the population brain or just half of just repression, Simon Thou, like a lot of guys. Alright it off right, I mean I I remember this, so. One thing in this is maybe a controversial recommendation, but there is evidence that men who have had like us sister or girlfriend raped army Much more empathic about rape victims than men who have not and you can see it so man diskettes for this point there were men in fact, do have
sisters, daughters, mothers, girlfriends, female friends, and they care about the money. About their welfare, and so I think, even just Imagine getting peoples, a thoughtless to imagine someone they care about, your daughter were sister or girlfriend or white getting rate can help reject gap because there is there. I used example on the book up at last: Prescott minding the gap of this enormous, such deference in our sexual psychology, where a male politician said something like you know well woman's. If one is inevitable that one is gonna, be right. She's just lie back and enjoy, as well as his course horrific only a male could make a statement like that. You are right, and that reveals an abhorrent way this programme, mind, reading gap that may also do not understand traumatic, section,
Violence is to them that bypassing female choice- it's not oh, just a casual thing. It's not just a minor offence is a traumatic Hence I- and so I think, in order to solve it, men have to get into the picture into the mix here. Men have to be part of the solution, and it's not just half the population. We can't just leave it. This is why some of the changes in sexual harassment policies are actually, I think, quite good, because historically it all up to the victim sexual harassment to do reporting and the launching of the offensive behavior, but just now, where I live in my university. If you observe an episode sexual harassment. You are required to report on the region. Lose your job if you down, and so may have some negatives dimensions to it as well, but it at Madame, but takes the burden off of the soul, all shoulders at the woman, victim and kind of makes
We won in the workplace, gonna responsible for preventing sexual harassment it leads to sexual harassment. At you mentioned in the book. Is sexual over perception by us. I'd love to talk about this. I never heard of this before yeah, so sexual perception, biases, crass cases, woman, smiles at a man or Incidentally, brushes up against his arm and the man things up, that's I'm getting. clear sexual signals: she's enemy, brow, Shia, absolutely enervate. Here you know We just lab studies as well by former registered to my term parallel where we bring people lab, have men are act, and we ask of how interested are you in this person? How interested They are in use sexually and we ve and a male sexual over perception binds that his men in first sexual interests, when it's not their based on ambiguous? accused offers. A smile is unambiguous. Q could mean sexual interest or
men, friendliness or politeness, work or even nervousness if the guy's creepy but what we find is that not all men are equally susceptible the sexual perception, biased, namely it in Mannheim Narcissism and men, were pursuing a short term. Maiden strategy tend to be especially vulnerable. Meeting the sexual over perception buys thinking that the woman, interest when she's not answer even awareness of that may. awareness of that that you know I'm attracted to this woman, she smiled at me. He had done mean that your attraction is reciprocated by her, so Serbs, knowledge and self monitoring can help and then also whim to understand that males commit sexual. Our perception buys so ones all that I use in the book is a real his example where a national grocery store chain instructed its cashiers female cashiers this case? To be
very friendly to smile and your eye contact the customers as they checked out, and what this resulted in the enormous mushrooming of cases of sexual harassment stocking inheriting lawsuits were brought finally eliminate the policy which lower. The rates of sexual harassment by the customers that class example the contact and smile goes to them. O Brien YA. Think becoming a traitor chosen. You're, like man, she's, totally enemy amateur, follow her out to her car after work. I mean she's out creepy to think about a bit like that's how the brain is is in some of these cases. A lot of guys that suffer from this, like you, said, hi narcissism. But then there is sort of like the opposite of that right. When I used to teach the dating skills, there'd be guys and some she'd be like air, she always likes to come over and watch movies and, unlike her snuff nobody, I don't think she likes veto in its like ok yeah. She always wants to do stuff. What makes she's always calling me- and
I know she got like super jealous when I went out with this other girl that I don't even like you know, I've known or since call it, and she like echinacea that talking to me but known another she's, not interested in me. She just being weird we're just friends to like the guys that women are interested in. You have to like punch them in the face to get them to notice you. But then, meanwhile, you smile at another guy because he's creeping you out and a guy ends up following you around thinking that you throw and signals at Germany's assaulting you at a party that weaken its it's crazy, so fundamental, this connecting cross sex, mind, reading yeah yeah exactly so. If the guys that your mentioning, though, are maybe a little on the spectrum side that is there not reading social pews, not making correct inference. can be, but also, I think, a lot of guys who are nice and raised well, and I put that in airports, because that can mean a lot of things but raise what they do. Go around thinking that every woman whose nice nicer them wants to sleep with them, and then they
for correct right? They go in the complete opposite direction where they're like well. If she is interested in me, there's a lot of risk there for me getting rejected if I'm wrong, so they just decide not to do anything, even though, like their eighty percent, ninety percent she likes me but they're like, but what? If I do something and then I'm rejects it, I'm gonna be humiliated. They start catastrophe using this, so they really, I think, deep down a lot of these guys do know they just don't want to suffer any further. In many cases, humiliation the socially, so they just ignore it and they bury it and then they go I'm having trouble dating it's like, while because when a woman, like you, your ignoring the signals and when a woman doesn't like you you're using that to reinforce the idea that no women like you right, that's serious rang pervasive problem in guys of all ages who are trying to date that's a different subject, though, of course now. Rape in the block. It is a very complex issue. I want to just sort of highlight that we are not able to cover most of it here on the show, because again, it's two chapters, the book.
Lee does to launch a long chapters. Yes at talking about. Is it an evolutionary adaptation? What can be done about it? How pervasive it is that alone. I think a sort of worth the price of admission if you're interested in this topic, but I know what we're running time here. I want to highlight inclosing here scanning for alternative maids stays active even in happy relationships. We gonna talk about that before. I really love this concept, because I think a lot of I especially who are married in her Abby would love to know that it's not a sign that there with the wrong person. If they're, like all that girl over there's gonna Cute, that women at work is really attractive, like I think a lot of us, we go oh, what is my conscious trying to tell me by finding other women attractive, an answer is its tell you that you're you're dongle steelworks, that's it right right or even doesn't in the case of the eight year old man right right, right, right or by all sexual does it desires. Punishing me for this. It doesn't mean I love my wife right and I think
as a man. I can tell you that every guy that I know does this at some level, even if their madly in love with their significant other and the only exceptions, are maybe like the first three months of a new relationship that they kind of don't have eyes for anyone else, but it's like you, don't stop going too cautious just because you have your own ferrari, I guess maybe other factors sure thing about. Equally, I just made it up, it might be crap and fall apart under scrutiny will see, but it is, good to realise that something like the male desire for sexual variety that you have as a man? It just doesn't mean anything about your relationship. It's a natural impulse. It doesn't mean anything about the state of your committed relationship of yours. Is there anything else that I haven't? Ask that you think, like I've got get this in this is extremely important. We were all around It's a share family boring, but I just related to what you, just when I talk about is the attention of adhesion, that is, men, find look yet attractive women. It draws
attention even a split second, you talk like a woman catch, a woman. What does she? the matter of your high captures male attention and their nuclear comments, which has a reward centre in the brain lights up, said word it sore looking at attractive women, and so in some sense, with a male brains, are set up for this kind of action, which not necessarily a good thing or a pleasant thing to be tortured in this way. But it explains a lot if we're getting dopamine from looking at beautiful women's phases and other things that does explain a lot. Yes, it does so I guess inclosing, then I guess what my hope, is an issue I read. The book is that the goal, goes to reduce sexual conflict to reduce costs between men and women, especially of the more horrific form. sexual violence, sexual harassment, stocking intimate partner, violence, sexual assault
One will eliminate these things and only by understanding the deeper causes of these things Can we have any hope of understanding himself pretending There are no all due to patriarchy the pay Turkey in the sky or whatever he's not gonna, do threatened. What we need is education about the fundamental sex. differences in our evolve. Sexual psychology. That's a starting point doctrine: the boss, thank you very, very much always fascinating. Thank you join great talkin to you, it's nice to talk to someone who is well informed and smart Well, I've got thoughts on this episode, but before I get into that, here's a sample of my interview with Guy ROZ, who hosts and PR is how I built this. He shares his number one secret to getting a great interview. How asking did questions during the interview serves both the overall story and the guy being ruled, and it's got a nice riff with somebody else in the business. Here's a quick bite
I came to NPR is a twenty year old. In turn, I was very lucky. You know I really wanted to mean overseas reporter and the stars were sort of aligned in the right way. Where I got the job and I was totally terrify, you know I was sent to Berlin to be the correspondent friend. The are don't mess this up- oh yeah, and by the way you're going to Bosnia tomorrow, and that that was now I began overseas- is a foreign correspondent bearing witness to historical events being somewhere with their unfolding in front of your eyes in real time is thrilling, it's absolutely extraordinary and fastening I mean imagine if you were standing at the Berlin Wall on November nights, nineteen, eighty, nine, it's an extraordinary feeling to be in these places, and I was able to witness history unfold and from my eyes many many times it there's really a secret to entertain people. This is my secret. If you really want to get a good and from somebody you need to honour their story, you need to honour them. If they're coming to talk to you and we want them as you learn a lot about, you spend the time to do the work, and if you do that there is a better the fifty percent chance that they will appreciate that interest. I mean those while moments their real, because what I do in an interview he is like. We leave the world that I met a completely leave the surroundings. Every all chaos annoys, you know tromp in politics. I just leave is out it's all the noise cove, it's gone, it's like when you see a movie. I am just in that person's world from
or including the one teachable quality. All entrepreneurs seem to have in common checking episode for all four of the Jordan Harbinger Show, with guy rose so much here and so much more in the book, especially about coercion and rape, and some other disturbing topics that I just didn't have time. Slash. Inclination to get into here live on. The show so definitely check that out. The book will be linked up in the show notes, please use our website links. If you buy books from the guessed it does help support the show now in David's book, he also discusses long distance relationships. We do tend to deceive ourselves and long distance relationships. We fill in the gaps when person is not with us with our ideal values rights we idealize the person when they're not in front of us. This is very human. Very natural very dangerous and destructive to long term relationships. Unfortunately, the antidote is of
course, spending lots of real time together. Spending longer periods with somebody in the new slash home environment really is kind of the only way to get around it. Don't get married or make a big decision like moving in together before doing I've seen this mistake. A lot people who only travel together and then decide to move in together or get married, and it's just a total disaster on wheels. You need, to things a little bit step by step for that specific reason Also. What I found interesting from the book and from our conversation is that women are more likely to keep hooking up with an axe and four guys we're like, oh yeah. Of course you know friends of benefits. Why not no strings attached, but a lot of women, and I learned this further first time from the book a lot. It's for women, it mitigates bad feelings and so what consequences it may place the eggs and a backup mate position so like if some false, through with my new Geier with being free, I always have you to fall back on. Ok, fine, but also it
stop guys from really freaking out, because a lot of guys are more concerned, unfortunately with the loss of sex and they are with the loss of an actual partner specially depending on wage. You are so if she still hook up with the guy he be less prone to violence or destructive behaviour that could affect her so hooking up after break up? not necessarily done for the same reasons as men, which is often variety. That's often why men break up and and continuously brown, which you no surprises, no guy and no go anywhere, but it makes me wonder how many women listening have had pity or just you know, break up sex after the fact with a man they broke up with just to ease out of the relationship and I'm sure I'll see a bunch emails. Above, as I do find this interesting, I would consciousness even is so have you analysis of all the ladys listening here? Have you slept with a guy after the fact just so he didn't get pissed off and because it was fun, but also I wonder how conscious this is right. Like do you even know why you're still hook
with Iraq's or does it seem like it's easy, it's fun. If you think about it, how many of you have done it just so he's less mad or so that you feel less guilt about the break up, but it's a lot more people than we thought but a lot of you never even really think about. Why, specifically, it's just something you do so this all sort of leads to the final question here, which is how to become irreplaceable and there's whole industries. On this. I ran a company that taught this four, but ten plus eleven years or so, and I ran a pot gas that only talked about there's a how to become irreplaceable right, high mate value, the book gets into a lot of strategies on, as some have to do, with creating a shallow pool of local mates, which is, of course harder to do this is now not on the discrepancy status, discrepancy that is between you and your maid, but on your mate and the other options out there. So how desirable are you in action, terms matters far less than how desirable you are compared to ever one else around you. You know if you are the let's say one of
five women in an engineering class with five hundred men, you are by all means one of the most desirable females. These guys can possibly imagine even if in a fifth fifty pool of women, your average or below right, which is good and I assume the same thing- goes for men when you are on a hot or no it sure leading squad or something like that. You're one of the only guy that's interested in women on that cheerleading squad and there's a lot of you know straight male cheerleaders and they ve told me during college. I remember this couple friends, my Mama chilling squad and ways to be like you're, a cheer leader, and they let you have no idea. Man fish a barrel, Jordan. I used to hear that all the time of the car. stays where we kept things classy in pc, This is one reason why breakups often happen between let's say hometown sweethearts somebody goes to college. They leave their small hometown, there's way more selection and there's distance. It's just a recipe to nuke pretty much any relationship, even if the relationship is otherwise good and stable, and I think the internet it is to be seen how the internet does destroys. These differences
Energy is because now the pool of mates is massive, depending on the radius you're willing to put into dating apps. You know you put five hundred miles and are a hundred miles in or globe or whatever it is, and now there's suddenly thousands are hundreds of thousands of people were formerly there might have been ten people in your dating pool in your small town that you knew also something I hope, help you become irreplaceable as a maid specialised skills, unique assets in a group such as a big network or a lot of resources in another area or special perk, or something like that and no fame seems to be the most obvious one here, a giant network of actions or maybe just material wealth. That is really obvious. I didn't see casting on that list. But that makes sense, I dont think podcasting counts as a special skill that make somebody in the irreplaceable made, although it's worked out pretty well for me I'll, throw that one other works for the episodes are always in the shown. Its transcripts are in the show notes. There's a video of this interview. Go up on our Youtube Channel Jordan, harbinger dot com, Slash Youtube, don't forget, we ve got our clips
with cuts that don't make it to the show or highlights from interviews. You can't see anywhere else. Jordan, harbinger dot com. Slash clips is where you can find that I'm at George, harbinger on both Twitter and Instagram, or just hit me on Linkedin, I'm teaching you to connect with great people and manage relationships and maybe even increase your mate value using software systems and tiny habits over at our six minute networking course. The courses free Jordan, Harbinger dot com, slash course, is what I'm teaching you how to dig the well before you get thirsty. And most of the guests on the show, subscribe and contribute to the course so come join us you'll, be in smart company where you belong, this shows it in association with Podcast one, my maid, team is Jen, Harbinger, Jason Sanderson, Robert Frogeity Milly, Ocampo, Ian bared, Josh, Ballard and Gabriel. Ms Rocky remember. We ride
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Transcript generated on 2022-03-02.