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598: Gently Sequestering a Questionable Counselor | Feedback Friday

2021-12-10 | 🔗

A medical issue has rendered your therapist colleague mentally (and ethically) incapable of providing care for others, but she hasn't accepted this. How can you support management's efforts to establish reasonable cause for termination without feeling so guilty? This and more here on Feedback Friday!

And in case you didn't already know it, Jordan Harbinger (@JordanHarbinger) and Gabriel Mizrahi (@GabeMizrahi) banter and take your comments and questions for Feedback Friday right here every week! If you want us to answer your question, register your feedback, or tell your story on one of our upcoming weekly Feedback Friday episodes, drop us a line at friday@jordanharbinger.com. Now let's dive in!

Full show notes and resources can be found here: jordanharbinger.com/598

On This Week's Feedback Friday, We Discuss:
  • How can you get better at your job when the boss is afraid to constructively criticize your performance just because you're the heir apparent to the family business?
  • A medical issue has rendered your therapist colleague mentally (and ethically) incapable of providing care for others, but she hasn't accepted this. How can you support management's efforts to establish reasonable cause for termination without feeling so guilty?
  • You're at a lucky point in your life where everything seems to be falling into place, but you can't curb the urge to shop impulsively and worry this could be the domino that brings all good things down. How can you keep your sticky fingers off your credit cards before catastrophe strikes?
  • On the job hunt after learning a new skill set, you've noticed that listing pronouns on LinkedIn profiles has become pretty common and you support the idea. But you happen to live in a conservative-leaning state and worry that prospective employers in your area might not be as open-minded if you chose to observe this practice. What's the right move here?
  • Nearing 30, you and your long-term significant other own an investment property together and run your own business, but you live with your parents because it's culturally acceptable and it allows you to build capital for the future. However, you've been feeling social pressure to move out and you're wondering if it's finally time. Should you stay or should you go?
  • Have any questions, comments, or stories you'd like to share with us? Drop us a line at friday@jordanharbinger.com!
  • Connect with Jordan on Twitter at @JordanHarbinger and Instagram at @jordanharbinger.
  • Connect with Gabriel on Twitter at @GabeMizrahi.

Sign up for Six-Minute Networking -- our free networking and relationship development mini course -- at jordanharbinger.com/course!

This is an unofficial transcript meant for reference. Accuracy is not guaranteed.
Special thanks to our sponsor Glenfern single malt scotch whisky. Lately, I've heard me talk about Glenfern, dick and challenging traditional notions commonly portrayed in culture of what it means to be wealthy and live a life of riches. Glenn fitting believes that be, the material a life of wealth and is about family community values in fulfilling work. These are the values that lead Glenn, Fedex, who become the, roads leading single malt scotch whisky and feedback Friday world was trying to help solve, problems that get in the way of you living your richest life more from our partners at Glenfern. It come up later in the shell I welcome the feedback Friday, I'm your host Jordan Harbinger. As always, I'm here with feedback Friday producer, the maestro with the advice flow, Gabriel, MA's, riding on the Jordan harbinger. Show we decode the stories, secrets and skills of the world's most fascinating people and turn their wisdom into practical advice. You can use to him your own life and those around you. So we want to help you see the matrix
how amazing people think and behave, and our mission is to help you become a better informed. More critical thinker soon get a deeper understanding of how the world works and makes them what's really happening even inside your own mind. Now, if your new to the show on Fridays, we give advice to you, we answer listener questions the rest of the week. We have long form interviews in conversations with a variety of amazing folks from spies to see it was athletes to others, thinkers and performers. In this week we had Andrew gold who exposes and I a lot of really interesting subject matter from fake exorcisms, not that there, are any real exorcisms to admitted pedophiles and more he's up and coming in the documentary. Basin. I really enjoyed my conversation with him. We also had one from the vault Gary Vainer chow recorded a few years back this episode profiles, one of the most. I guess you could say prolific. Social media personalities of our time, so make sure you ve had a look analyse into everything that we created for you here this week. It's a busy time of year
and I have seen and heard a lot of complaining about how there is not enough time of the day and have done some of that complaining myself. But when I sit down and think about it, I would estimate that at least half of my frustrations with others are actually frustrations. With myself for failing to set clear boundaries and stand by them, whether its commitment I dont, want to deal with their go to or somebody who I'm still somehow subjecting myself to. Even though I ve grown tired of them years ago, It's almost always on me, so this is something to think about between cooking shopping, entertaining the kids in the family and all the rest of the things you might not have time for this holiday season, where our boundaries. And where can you set more clear boundaries? You know you don't have to have interactions with people, you can't stay and all the time sure there's occasional uncle Frank that happens, but you know it's time for us to start protecting our time, which is really the only thing we can't get back. That old cliche is true, As always, we got some fun ones in some. Wild ones gave what's the first thing out of the mail bag: Hey Jordan, a game I mean my late twenties
and my family owns a very successful pest control accompany the company prides itself on the fact that everyone in a position of power started their careers as technicians. I've spent the last five years working in the field where I've been successful and promoted to regional assistance, helping run a region with eleven branches. I'm now in line to take over my father's position as president and see oh, oh, I have clearly been blessed with one hell of an opportunity. I am very motivated and driven- and I worked very hard. My boss always says you have to earn respects before you can use any authority which may spot on, but that's not why I'm crawl under houses digging drains under houses and to laugh he'd stroke were bleeding through five hairs, gloves in a day's work. I do it because our employees look up to me. I want to lead by example. I want to prove that I'm willing to do, whatever it takes to make sure they know I'll, always be there for them. Thirdly, however, people do look at me differently. I typically get penned as their rich white kid who didn't have to work for anything, I'm also on a fast
back, not only because of my last name, but because I'm pretty damn good at my job, but everyone haven't worked with things any movement up, the total is because of my firm. And my regional manager who's, my boss calls me his boss and doesn't tell me when I'm doing something wrong. I can see right through someone who sang, but they think I wanna hear, and I hate it Oh, how can I grow when my boss is afraid to constructively criticise my performance signed terminating this special treatment, such a great question when people talk about that function and ineptitude of family on businesses. This is oftentimes the reason people in the family play by different rules from regular employees there on the inside track, their wealth and position are usually secured, even if their smart and ambition like you, which I think is super admirable. They still have a privileged position that they just can't shake, and even if the company creates certain rules like every one has to start out as a technician in a field which, by the way, that's an excellent Powell
The reality is your in line to take over from your father, because you're his son and no manager wants to be, the guy who yelled at you for making a mistake when you were young, knowing in the next few years, you're going to deciding his bonus. The irony is you actually want people to treat you normally and giving you real feedback, would probably build a stronger relationship with you. But that's my point. The politics real or perceived are super messy, which, let's just acknowledged, that is tough. This has got to be a very Ricky position for you to be in. I know you get a lot of shit for being the candle Roy of this family, but I really feel for you here is what I am hearing in your letter is not just Hidell grow when my boss won't give me feedback, but also how do I value myself How do I know I even have what it takes How do I know how people feel about me outside of my role in this family that must be very confusing sometimes, and the fact that you want to cut through that, an action
could be a great leader. I think that says a lot about you, so here's what I would do, first of all, if you want your manager to give you meaningful feed back then would tell him very bluntly what you want and give permission to speak to you like a regular employee. You could say something like listen, Frank. I want you to know how much I appreciate your guidance on learning. A tonne really glad I got to start out working for you. I know it must be tricky for you to manage the bosses son, it's weird for me too but I want you to know that I am determined to become a great leader. Sometimes I get the feed. That you might be treating me with kid gloves, which I can understand, but that's not what I want. What I want is for you to treat me like any other employees seriously, and I want to ask you to stop calling me your boss, because I'm not there yet I'm here, guy right now and I don't I'll ever be a good boss to you in the future. If you give me special status right now, sought them like that. You have to make frank, feel safe being real with you,
You have to mean this when you say it, no lip service to the idea of being treated like everyone else. You have to really. be ready for meaningful criticism and when he gives it to you say, thank you. Take it on board, apply what he teaches you the more he sees you really engaging with his feedback. The more hill feel valley. David and safe continuing to do that, and the more you'll learn and look I'll be honest. You might not succeed. A hundred percent here, There might always be a part of frank and everyone else in this company. That's always very aware that you're gonna be the boss one day and that's why you can't, really when here. This is why family businesses are so tricky, but even if you get free like eighty percent of the way there that would be a huge win, an given. the other thing I would do is seek out your own sources of professional development. If you are really determined to be an amazing president and see oh, oh, I would be
from as many outside sources is, you can read the top business books from the last thirty years. Listen interviews with the best managers learn how other company manage their employees. Give yourself like many NBA here. The other thing it would do is consider hiring an executive coach. It might seem premature, but I would be thinking five to ten years ahead here. You need a voice that isn't beholden to your dad or worried about what you might think of them. Somebody who tell you when you are mismanaging a project or struggling to lead and work with you to level out because, like I said, it's very possible that you won't get truly unvarnished feedback from within the company, but if you find it out and then you bring it in that would help you avoid the pitfalls of all this kid gloves in politicking, which is usually the downfall of all talented, privileged people and by the way, if you want a great case for your situation. Just watch a little documentary called success,
That show is a frigate master class in what happens to companies that don't figure out how to deal with this problem. It's also kind of hilarious silence. we're taking things into her own hands a little more. You sound like a thoughtful young person that made me feel really old, saying by the way you read me really willing to get your hands dirty. You crave real feedback, your genuinely twisted in your employs success. That puts you, unlike the point: zero zero one percent of leaders, but because of your position, Europe, they have to work harder than most people to get the education. You need to really thrive. So don't be afraid to do that. That is part of your job. Right now and while you do that, keep asking yourself how you're going to fix this problem in the future, because if you have kids who grow up in the business one day, you're going to face this exact same issue as well, and you might be the one who finally solves it. Good luck. You know who is
afraid to tell you what you really need make pocket my sponsor of products and services. This episode is sponsored in part by man's gaped. Dont know what to get as a gift. Her stockings very well: men scaped has the tools to guarantee you win, this year's stockings, tougher or white elephant competition. Minsk as the leader and men's below the waste grooming and they ve served more than four million men worldwide, and if my math is correct, well, that's almost eight million balls. May I suggest the crop mops all wipes for those. After mentioned balls or men, best selling products, the performance package for point out beside you'll, find their lawnmower body tremor and we'd whacker that's an ear and knows hair tremor, which I recommend you use regularly cropper preserve. ball deodorant an cropper, viper, ball tone or another goodies. It's all vague and in case you want to eat it. I guess cruelty, free, diaphragm, free sulphate, free and pear been free. So you know those are legit, whether it's for your partner, dad brother, Grand get em, something they will actually use and is almost sure to get a laugh, make sure you hurry to their site.
sure these wild give show up before the holiday season get twenty percent off and free shipping at man scaped outcome with Code, Jordan, twenty be the balls yes give giver this year with man scaped this So it is also sponsored by clay. Your member that ideal holiday gift as a kid. It was probably a certain toy, aha the council, the big kid bike and then, after you become a grown up, the perfect gifts were the unexpected essentials, often that you get for yourself, fresh socks and undies stack of storage. Containers and owning your companies, marketing data and growth. Naturally, the last ones definitely a great gift, because only Your data helps build and retain larger audiences who stay actively engaged with your company and that's a self gift. Our friends We are ready to share sure, boosting your with clay Probably wasn't the gift you had in mind this year, but you gotta to admit it's pretty good. Wanna get yourself one, on your data growth learn more at K. L you ve. I why oh dot com, slash holidays, thanks for listening and supporting the show your support of our advertisers,
keeps us going who doesn't love some good products and or services. You can always visit Jordan, harbinger dot com, slash deals for all the details and everybody that helps support the shell and now back to feedback Friday on the Jordan Harbinger show. What's next, hydrogen a game, I'm a licensed clinical social worker who works for an agency that provides counselling. Sir, says to military families. I love my job, I love the clients I serve and I love that I get to be a meaningful part of people's lives. The problem is one of my colleague he's had a medical issue a few years back that seriously impact at her ability to function? Oftentimes, I find that our sentences don't make sense. She becomes confused and disoriented and she cannot adequately track what's being discussed in tee meetings or even one on one, I'm prone to having empathy for the challenges people face in there
I mean hello, I'm a therapist, so I find myself losing my mind over my colleagues inability to perform our job. It also impacts our team systemically as she has simply not capable of carrying an equal caseload to me or other team members. but the most significant issue here is her meeting with clients. Some of them have described our experiences with her as quoting quote bizarre and ultimately discontinued services because of it, which is deeply sad to me. I am not alone in my concern,
and other programmes are now no longer referring to her, because I doubt that she can ethically provide therapy. My supervisor has started to enquire about specific instances of my co workers mental status and how it impacts client care. Now I have feelings of guilt for collecting and reporting data on my coworker, but I wonder if my discomfort is worth it if it means protecting the profession and the clients that it's designed to serve. I know there's the option to file a board complaint, but that feels much more drastic and I'm just not ready to take such a formal stance. So how involved should I be in supporting management first to establish reasonable cause for termination signed the conflicted clinician, while this is fascinating, gay, but also kind us at a social worker, slash therapist who's, going through some pretty serious stuff herself, and then you this woman who stuck between empathizing with our colleague and protecting her patience. That is it really tough situation,
gotta be incredibly hard when a colleague is suffering, and you have to take some action that would upset them maybe even compromise their career, but then you also have to uphold your ethical obligation to your patients. So what do you do? We wanted to talk to an expert? your situation, so we consulted with the one and only doktor, Aaron, Margolis Clinical psychologist, licence social worker and friend of the show and Doktor Margolis helped us see that this choice your facing, even though its putting you in a very difficult position We fairly straightforward. She pointed us to the National Association of Social Workers Code of ethics. I just happen to have a copy of my night stand which, as you know, is based the Bible for your approval and the first sentence of the first section literally says social workers primarily responsible. but he is to promote the well being of clients. Then, later in the impairment of colleagues section. Apparently they thought about this already. It says social workers who have direct
of a social work, colleagues, impairment that is due to personal problems, psycho social distress, substance abuse or mental health difficulties, and that interferes with practice. Effectiveness should consult with that colleague when feasible and assist that colleagues in taking remedial action, and it goes even further because later it says that social workers who believe that the colleague, has not taken adequate steps to address the environment should take action through appropriate channels. So right there it's pretty them, here, you have an ethical obligation to intervene. If your colleagues impairment is merely interfering with their effectiveness. Full stop. So the first thing I do we haven't done. This already is talk to your colleague directly. I would take the lunch or go for a walk in approach. This conversation with a time of compassion and respect- maybe you say something like listen. I just wanted to check in with you and see how you're doing I know you ve been through a lot lately. I want to support you and our patients as best I can, and I
tell your really struggling these days, I gotta say I have noticed that you seem confused recently a little disoriented. It seems like it's hard for you to try. What's being discussed in meetings even when we talk one on one? So what's goin on our you know any of that too, and then talk. It out see if she'll acknowledge if what you're noticing, maybe she breaks down and so she's under a ton of stress and she's taking six months off, and then the situation will be resolved or shall ask you for help getting better and you can share some resources and support her. But if she denies it, Anything is wrong or she admits that she struggling but doesn't take any steps to get better. Then I think you have to escalate this and by the way Having this conversation with your colleague first, that's important for several reasons. First of all, your ethically obligated to do so as Doktor Margolis explained to us, there can be sick if you can't penalties for violating ethical obligations, ranging from a slap on the wrist to a financial fine, having your license suspended to losing your license altogether very
likely in this situation, but it is possible the other reason I would have this conversation is if there were any legal or ethical action taken against your agency by you. our colleague or anyone else, for that matter, you'd be able to stand behind. The obligation that you had to intervene, but, most importantly doing our colleague, the kindness of having this conversation before you report her, I think that'll make you feel a lot less guilty, knowing that you ve really given her a fair shot to address this on our own and since your supervisor, already looking into it, I would work with them and honestly, I wouldn't feel overly conflicted about it. You said you love your clients, Europe, on people's lives in that role, confers a great responsibility and one way that you fulfil them responsibility is by protecting clients from an unstable or ineffective counselor. Now because you some kind of monster, but because she's just not currently capable of helping the people who need her and the same principle applies in any profession,
all the more so in a profession that explicitly is about helping people at their most vulnerable, especially people deserve help as military families, and if you need some extra guidance here, Doktor Margolis all I mentioned that you could call your local licensing board or your liability insurance and get an ethical consultation on what to do. Or if your agency has an in House Ethics Board, you can t, damn about your situation without giving any identifying information and ask them what they recommend the that's where there for but I got to say Jordan. You know I'm hearing everything you're saying and I agree, but part of what makes this decision so hard is that her colleague had a medical issue that led to this impairment. I mean we don't know the full story, but I'm wondering if maybe she had a stroke that could have memory problems- or maybe I mean who notes had been the car accident had our head NASH can concentrate, could be any number of things, but that's a very different story from you know another type of social worker whose
who knows like stumbling into their office drunk or going off their psychiatric meds, or something like that, and maybe that's why she feels so guilty, because this colleague of hers just had a freak health issue that really wasn't her fall and now she might be punished for it. Yeah. That's a really fair point: it is a different situation, but I would still argue that if the result is the same, if she's truly unable to care for her clients, does it matter if it's her fault or not either, Well, she's, dropping the ball and compromising people's lives were That is also a fair point, but it might change the degree of compassion or the amount of latitude that they should give this person before they are actually report. I guess what I'm saying is: it's it's a little ambiguous and actually the enhanced W code of ethics. It seems to take this into account because there is a section where it says that ethical decision making and I'm quoting them here- is a process in situations where conflicting obligations arise like this one
social workers. May be faced with complex ethical dilemmas that have no simple answers, and it goes on to say that social workers decisions and the actions they take should be consistent with the Spirit. As well as the letter of the code, so even in the friggin code of ethics, it saying there isn't one right answer for a situation like this year, nice, it's like a cop out in writing there, like hey all that stuff. We just sad about where things that may be. None of it applies that's great kind of if you view this as a complex ethical dilemma where she's having to weigh her co workers, health challenges against her patients needs. Then yeah. Her choice really isn't as clear cut as the code might seem. Although my stance- and I think your sense jordan- is that the patients I mean, ultimately, they have to come first anyways the more reason to get the ethical consultations that you need to make the right call. Doktor Margolis had one then say it, which I thought was just dead on. She pointed out that using very focused on whether you should get involved in this situation at all, which is interesting, because you also said how much you care about your patients. How much you care about your colleagues and I'm wondering, is
because owning this decision is a little intimidating. Is it because you're so empathic that you don't want to hurt anybody, or is it just that you know maybe a little bit of a people please or which would make a lot of sense? Given your profession, you wanna help people, if so, If any of these things applies, I would explore that may be in your own therapy and see how void aunt or people. Pleasing impulses might be pulling out in your life. Ass, Doktor Margolis put it that might help look at any barriers that might be in the way of providing care to people and also managing difficult situations like this in the future yeah, that's it interesting point, and that might be the real lesson here. What the situation is revealing about her as a person, but in my book, if clients are truly being compromised by social worker. That person shooting. Be providing care at least not right now, and it's up to everyone in the agents, especially management to uphold the standards of the profession. I know it sucks, but that's the reality
I wouldn't tiptoe around a surgeon who couldn't remember how to perform a procedure right, so I'm not sure why we should tiptoe around a social worker whose actually miss treating her clients I know, you'll make the right call here with the right guidance. Good luck! You can reach us Friday. Jordan, harbinger dot com. Please keep your emails. Concise! Try to use a descriptive subject line that makes our job a lot easier and if you can include the state and country Livin that'll help us give you more detailed advice if there's something you're going through any big deal Junior wrestling with or if you just need a new perspective on stuff like life love work. What to do. If you find out your boy Friend is cheating on you, because he's bisexual still but in that one rumble around in my head from less we gave whatever is got you stand up. Lately. Hit us up Friday at Jordan. Harbinger Dotcom, we're here to help and we keep. Every email anonymous I wanted to do brief interlude here and talk a little bit about better help, you kill me recommended them all the time. I recommend therapy on the show all the time there are sponsor of the show, of course, but I think it's a spell
the important to be real instead of just doing straight up ad reads all the time I get a lot of nice. No, from you guys about how you ve tried better help and how its helped you we're all human beings. We all struggle from time to time. We talk about the sun Feedback Friday a lot- and I know many of you wait until things are unbearable before considering getting help. But there he's a tall. You should utilise be four things get worse. Don't just wait. Two like right in bus and be like wow. This is a total cluster. You should get there be it can help you avoid those low lows. Also, many of you think that their peace for so called crazy people. I've said this before, but I've actually come to a realization through my on therapist that I'm not the crazy one in this particular situation. This is a few years ago that it helped me make decisions that dramatically helped improve my situation in my life and my business and just really turn things around for me. So I want you to know that therapy
doesn't mean that something is wrong with you. It doesn't mean that you broken. It means that you recognise that all human have emotions and that we need to learn. to control them not avoid them, and we can strategies better together and we ve been taught that mental health shouldn't be a part of normal life for whatever reason, but that is wrong. That is wrong. We take care, our bodies at the gym we go to the doctor. We do good nutrition or we attempt to maybe down over the holidays, but whatever we be investing in focusing on our minds just as much, if not more because, hey the mind should last a little longer at least be in better shape than my boy before a longer time right, better help is much more often by the way than in person therapy. You don't have to drive you dont have to park. I know you're thinking to mention this before you think need, a therapist, because you can talk to your friends, I'm on board. With that I get it. Good friends are great for bouncing things off of, but there People in my life that I mostly you're from when they need a therapist, and that is exhausting for me and I find myself not necessarily train to the handle theirs
not necessarily in the right place to hear from them times. I don't want to deal, I might even avoid their calls from having a tough day. You're therapist won't do that to you and also their trained to deal with this they can compare. Analyze their relationship with you isn't complicated because they're your therapist, so if you ve been avoiding therapy because you your friends can be your therapist or avoiding it. For any reason. For that matter, I highly recommend making a real appointment with a better help: therapist because you're, probably sing off your friends at least better help is customized therapy that offers videophone even live chat sessions with your therapist, so you don't see anyone on camera or even get out of bed. If you don't want to give it a try and see, over two million people have used better help online therapy, they're listening listeners get ten percent off their first month at better help. Dot com, Slash, Jordan, that's better h, E lp, dot com, Slash, Jordan and ate it help support the shell to thanks entreat yourself, get go, get better help
what's next Hey Jordan and gave him I'm twenty nine and after struggling for all of my twenties, I finally feel like I've made it in the span of eighteen months have accomplished virtually all of my big life goals. Finding a life our becoming h, our manager at a large construction company without a college degree, by the way, having my first out building my dream home and even picking up a puppy I always wanted. My issue is bad. I can't seem to turn off the need to acquire things just about anything that exists. on a shelf in a store or an online warehouses, fair game. I spent a lot of my evenings before coming home running errands for things I don't necessarily want, but I just can't seem to push the off button. I can into a department store for cat litter and leave with a hundred fifty dollars worth of kids clothes, toiletries, home improvements or whatever the flavor the days now avoid grabbing carts. I leave my credit cards and inconvenient places and I've removed the shopping ups offer my phone, but that's only partially curb this
this behaviour has caused me to make bad decisions with my credit cards and then get small. The consolidation loans to try and fix it. It's affecting my mental Elvis well, I get anxious and panicky several times a week that somebody will discover how irresponsible I am or that the bills will become too overwhelming. My partner does not much interest in our finances are couples. Therapist is more focused on our communication skills and doesn't take the bait to explore this topic, and my family can just won't empathize and most people outside of my inner circle? There more interesting chastising me than helping them aside from getting my own individual therapist, which I plan to do when I can afford it. Do you have any suggestions on how to get my sticky fingers offer my credit cards before catastrophe strikes signs the overwhelmed audio maniac audio maniac is our. What is that that one of my life that's a good one right. It basically just mean somebody was obsessed or has like
uncontrollable, urge to buy things, take a polite term for shopping addiction. Yeah, ok, fare well, first of all, congrats on all of this growth in the last year and a half that is a remarkable turn around the fact that you ve been able to achieve all of this. Despite having what sounds like a pretty gnarly compulsion to spend that super impressive- and I really appreciate how open your being about all this. So, let's get into it. So it's interesting you're asking how to get your sticky fingers off your credit cards before catastrophe. strikes, but I think you need to redefine the tape even more to the roots of this compulsion to shop so much itself sounds to me like you're, in the grip of a real. shopping addiction, although this debate they about whether compulsive spending is technically and addiction. A lot of the symptoms difficulty resist the impulse to buy something that feeling of euphoria, when you do feel, the shaman remorse afterwards creating financial problems for yourself that to me. So is a lot like any other addiction? And if this is an addiction
you're going to have to approach it like one, and that means figuring out how this obsession with shop, is operating in your life, just like drinking excessively or doing drunk These are staying up all night playing fortnight, the addiction. Is it really the problem? It's your solution to the problem, so the real question is the problem. What are you aware of feeling right before you hit target on the way home? What are you stop feeling when you're, housing, the toiletries I'll and loading up your car with your eighteenth bottle of frigging birds, bees, baby shampoo, then when you get home and unpack everything what feeling start to creep in again, if it's me, I would really take inventory of those feelings before you shop. That's the first step. if you can learn how to understand those feelings, better figure out they're. Coming from why they're so unpleasant find a healthier and more productive way to channel them. Then I think you'll start You get a handle on this compulsion and it's interesting there's this famous compulsive shopping researcher. Yes, that's the thing his name,
Doktor Donald Black. He calls this pre purchase tension or anxiety. He also says that almost two thirds of all compulsive spenders struggle with depression or anxiety, but really any uncomfortable feeling can drive someone to spend compulsively pain, loneliness boredom, your anger. It's actually the inability to tolerate these negative feelings that drives people to spend or just a need to fill some kind of inner void. You know the feeling of emptiness inside that you think you can fill anywhere else, but there is also an element of compulsive shopping. That's purely chemical! This other researchers, doktor Ruth eggs. She says that some people develop shopping addictions because they essentially get addicted to how their brain feels while acquiring stuff every time they dropped. Something in the bay get their brain releases, endorphins and dopamine in and overtime those feelings become addictive in the behaviour gets reinforced yeah, but
you- must describes everybody, including me on Amazon, Jordan. So I think that explains why we're all on Amazon dot com until one thousand one hundred and thirty p dot m every night. So given that, besides going to therapy, what can you do to fix this? Well, Jordan already touched on the most important thing, which is really getting a handle on the feelings that are driving the spending and that the spending is also functioning to kind of temp down idea Lee you can do that with a therapist, but if you just can't get there right now than you can explore this on your own as well. I would open up to your partner tell them! You need help. We just need to talk about it. Go for a walk with a friend talk to them about it. Maybe you can journal, Whatever you do, I would look at the experiences that you associate with shopping and try to go as far back in your life as you can and look if you're feeling frustrated that your couples, therapist, is just not addressing this topic which, by the way during that seems a bit weird to me just because money is such an important part of any relationship. It's like. Why would we
be dancing around that in couples therapy, but whatever will. But that's it aside. If you're frustrated about that- and I would just speak up, I would tell your counselor look. I want to talk about this. I have a problem with shopping. I think I have a problem with money. It's affecting my relationship. This is a priority for me. Can we talk about it and look the next time you find yourself? swinging by you know, pottery barn, to check out that eighteen hundred dollar chaise long you ve, had your ions shaggy loud off like says, saves long now shut shadow. when you talk about long years alone, Wait. Am I wrong about this you're a writer, and this is terrifying, because I've never gotten this right in my life. If your correct here, I'm pretty sure that it says long is terrifying, where you have to get to the bottom of this right now. That's ok, Gregory I know it is yeah, that's what it is Although you injury, he is how this a spell spelled literally like everywhere the internet. I might go I'm crazy. What yeah? Now I just got just Google. It gets its face.
Long actually, but I think because it sounds so we are giving us a lot of Americans say his lounge. That's just become the accepted beheld and adds actually it's a long long chair at my entire world is upside down, but now I know an inanimate examined it. Do it right now and sums gonna be like do you mean shes, lounge moron and I'm gonna work and have their opposition to all over again, except I'm gonna be on your side. Maybe they call it his long, because that makes it sound like it's worth. Eighteen hundred dollars for Amerika Chaise allowance should be much anyway french name is gonna, be overpriced exactly heavyweight. Next time you find yourself some fancy furniture store in your check That's some expensive piece of furniture that you had your eye on. I would stop like physically stop in the store and take stock of what you are feeling in a moment. Is it anxiety? Is it anger? Is it loneliness boredom, maybe a loss of control, whatever it is, locate the feeling name it try to trace it back to its source and then ask yourself if buying and other object is really gonna fix, that feeling or if it's just gonna put up
Indeed on it for a few hours and then overtime. Hopefully you start to replace the urge to shop with these other healthier Hobbes, maybe the next time you feel the urge to log on Amazon again after work, you promise yourself. No I'm gonna go for a run. First, you know. Going to run first and then I'm gonna get Amazon, see how I feel, then I wouldn't be surprised, be if some of this sum pre purchase tension. I think of the word used if that uses up when this guy channels, that into a more productive activity, Eventually. I do think you will start to require the reward system in your brain. You might just need to replace one addiction with a better one for cancelling your credit cards or may be giving them to your partner. That might be a good stop gap in the meantime, but but I wouldn't settle for that solution. That's kind of like baby proving the cabinets right we gotta go solve the deeper issue here so get to the bottom of it, make it a priority yet started. My friend find the roots of this thing. You have a partner, a family, a great career, a very full life. You have a lot of great reasons to be financially sound and you ve got this game
imagine if somebody picking up baby close it target and then like putting him back on the shelf in running around the target three or four times in the guys, don't want these, sir. Why not do some berbeus in the parking lot just Colombia skin white on in the in the garden section and then go back. I get now, but I still want footsie PJ's with again by the way, if your joining us for the four time or you're. Looking for a way to tell your friends about the show, we ve got the episode starter packs. These are collections of your favorite episodes organised by popular topic. Tailed new listeners get a taste of everything that we do here on the show just visit, Jordan, harbinger dot com, slash start to get started our at what's next, a game after a crazy couple years. I recently decided to learn some new skills and transition into the Tec world. To start this careers, which I got back on linked in, and I noticed that some people list there pronouns underneath their name I'm on board with people showing them, and I make the effort to use the right ones for different people, but since I'm fine with the pronouns that would be
soon for me, I I just don't feel the need to list them personally. My question is: how would putting pronouns on my social media be perceived by others? Does using pronouns help indicate something culturally? Would it help my online presents to show pronouns? I live in a pretty conservative state Indiana, but my own suburb is kind of purple when I did phone banking for democratic candidates, People had pronouns in their zoom window. On the flip side, plenty of people are still very republican in area and could maybe think of me negatively for listing my pronouns, even if it's on a conscious level. So what would you do signed the purple pronoun proponent, while this is interesting question. We ve actually been getting a lot lately and whereat in interesting moment in the culture where the whole listing your pronouns thing is helping people communicate how they want to be referred to, but it's also signalling support for it. larger movement, and that comes with its own associations, positive or negative. Depending on your perspective, I generally think that people
listing their pronouns. I mean it's fine. Sometimes it's awful people. intentions are usually good and if a few people get worked up about it, it's like I'm down we're just making things easier for some folks. At the same time, the fact that listing you're own could either work for or against you, depending on who your audience is. That does worry me a little bit just that this little act has become so politicized and also the fact that you're trying to guess people will perceive you based on this one little choice. It just says a lot about where we are right. Now I have written a court. Environment for years. I don't even think about this kind of thing at all, so we wanted to chat with an expert about your situation, so we ran this by Michel. Letterman Michel is a top notch: executive coaches. Also, the author of the connectors advantage really knows, Sir stuff, when it comes to navigating key decisions in your career. It's interesting Michel told us that she is actually asked herself this exact same question in the past. She thought that she didn't
after Mr Pronouns, because not listing them is basically the norm. It's the default, then one day, a colleague of hers pointed out if everybody puts their pronouns than that's the norm and it doesn't highlight those people and make them feel different, so it led Michel to start include her pronouns. Ok, that's Michel! That's her choice! You might go a different way and that's ok. Michel said that this is really about your personal brand in how you want to be pursued so if you're concerned that your brand is, let's assume more inclusive or whatever, and you think that that's gonna prevent you from being accepted or getting work with certain types of people, then you have to make a choice as to which one is more important, expressing your philosophy or a p willing to these employers so in Michel's view, the question isn't how you think you'll be perceived? It's really. How do you want to be perceived
If you understand that listing your pronouns will probably signal that Europe Progressive Inclusive, whatever you're, ok with that, then go for it if not then you might want to reconsider. We know or your heart is, whether you are willing to risk alienating people and losing out on job offers, for these believes that the potential costs that you're gonna have to accept that such a shity cost or accepted sucks, which has even think about think about? Yes? But yes is exactly the risk, it's a hard call them make, though She lives in a purple suburb, so this really could go either way. Unless enter letter, and I want to say you know yes, absolutely stand by your principles. You want to be an ally, you know screw anyone who hold that against you, but I also really want her to land this job like she obviously wants to make the transition into text. So I do agree with Michelle, but another part of me that feels like me, be it wouldn't be the worst thing if she's skip the pronounced just while she's interviewing, so that she doesn't know avoid alien People who would get super worked up about. This may be hold it against her and then land a couple offers and then once she's inside one of these
but he's she can outer pronounced resume window, and anybody who gets annoyed by that kind of thing will just have to deal basically because it sounds like her first priority is to transition into the Tec world. Her second priority is to really you no change, hearts and minds, but Jordan, again, I'm torrent, because that might be compromising her integrity and maybe even perpetuating the exact intolerance that she's fighting against. So honestly, don't know, that's it. That's a tough one. Yeah israeli tricky. I feel old. When it comes to this. This is sort of my boomer staff cause I'm like do. We really need to do this, but also I understand points on both sides. I think what you are saying is that it's all about her beliefs, but it's also about balancing, Those with her very real needs like getting a job that she really wants and to be fair I don't think she's trying to like become the social media manager for a company that manufacturers NEO Nazi T, shirts and treated separately, to be a completely different person to just get a paycheck from some maniacs good point, the company she's mine to there probably made up of people of all stripes.
Most of them are probably decent people and she's just trying to get along with as many of them as possible, while also doing what she thinks is right. So, honestly, I don't think you can necessarily go wrong. You're, probably alien fewer people than you think, but you also might changes many people's minds, as you hope I would do. What honours your beliefs up until the point? It seriously compromises your career, and figure out what matters to you more right now landing a job or waving the fly whatever the flag. Is that I'll help you make the right decision for yourself world gonna, linked to Michel Letterman's book. The connectors advantage in the show notes it's a terrific book. I highly recommend checking it out and good luck and gave I do not envy people seeking jobs in this political class. I don't do the pronoun thing like I mentioned, but I also I've put like zero thought into it, and I kind of like to keep it that way. For now, honestly, this seems like such a trivial thing to get hung up on, but it's a very
Real concern right now, like the right or wrong virtue signals can screw you. This whole spaces just become a minefield. You don't owe me, feel better if you dont get one of those jobs, the products and services that support this shell- we'll be right back this episode, sponsored in part by sea we'll share humans are born to create whether you picked up a paintbrush yesterday or in kindergarten. You can explore your creativity and be inspired. I personally, never viewed myself as a creative, but I do make my living creating the show, so I guess technically may be. I am whether you're a damn. Our a pro hobbyist or a master here. Creative discover what you can make with classes for every skill level course option, spanned the gamut and you can find classes like securing your word press site calligraphy to Adobe, illustrator Jen is taking me. Portrait fatigue Murphy Course on how to shoot an edit instagram worthy shots she's all about taken those family.
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Gabe, I'm twenty nine years old, I'm running my own business and I've had a girlfriend for over six years. Now we both own and investment property together and everything is stable. The thing is both of us also still live at home with our parents. We have great relationships with them. My parents are greek, herds are filipino, so this is all quite culturally normal for both sets of parents. We have z, The pressure to move out at all the thing is most, my friends are moving out now and that does way. On my mind, part of the reason we're both still at home is so. We can build a lot of capital to keep investing in our business and our future home, but, as I approach my thirties, I feel a social expectations for us to move out. So what should I do signed sweating? What they'll say build. My far, one can well first of all, congrats on finding a great partner and building up this wealth at such a young age. That is exciting. It's also cool that you both have such
relationships with your parents, I think that's very rare. It must be nice for pretty much everyone involved. You ve had to pay a price for building up these assets, which is living at home by it sounds like that isn't really much of it As for you, you don't mind living at home, you, like your parents, it doesn't sound like it's got in the way of your relationship very much so the opportunity costs are prey hello, maybe no given all of that. I am a little surprised by your question, you're saying that you feel this expectation to move out because, Your friends are getting their own places. But what do you want? What matters to you? If you look your friends getting their own apartments and going. Why is there something wrong with me? Do I need to be more like them to be happy? Am I missing something? Then? I wouldn't. By into those thoughts too much then you're just wanting something, because the people around. You want it, which is a classic mistake and a recipe for unhappiness and keep in mind friends are embracing their own opportunity costs. They might be women on their own, but there
saving the money that you are to invest in their futures. So there's no perfect scenario, but if you're watching your and become more independent, Andrew realising that you actually want that for yourself, maybe you're discovering that with your parents at this age, isn't the healthiest thing for you in your girlfriend, or maybe you want some more freedom to be closer with your girlfriend, then I do think that exploring again nothing in your letter gives me the sense that living with your parents is super weird or dysfunctional, and a lot of this is cultural and some cultures. People live with their parents well into adulthood, sometimes until they get married. So that's the norm. So if this works, All of you guys in its advancing your goals and great, but I will in my experience and I'm clearly biased as a guy who grew up in the states with american parents. being in a relationship and living with your parents at age. Twenty nine that has gotta take some kind of toll. It might not be straight of toxic or anything,
like that, but it might ship at your sense of independence, your privacy. Certainly I just don't know if you can be fully in an adult romance relationship when you're sharing a wall with mommy and daddy and arguing over who finish the Quaker roads in the morning. If there's that help separation that needs to occur between you, guys in your parents and their always is then I would start thinking about what your game plan is so bottom line. I wouldn't feel pressure to move out just because your life looks different from other people's, especially if this is helping you guys become financially independent in your parents, are cool with it but I also wouldn't stick around for another decade. If it holding you back from creating your own identity outside of them, you ve already accomplished way. but then most twenty nine year old, your parents of play, They roland that that's generous of them. You might not need to live under their roof till your thirty eight to achieve everything you want to achieve, you could get a small apartment and keep her overhead down. So you and your girlfriend can buy your next property.
or you can move out and work really hard on your business to give yourselves even more capital. But this really just comes down to your priorities. Maybe your to sacrifice your autonomy if it means getting a rental property that allow you in your girlfriend to pay for your kids college to wish in twenty years a fair enough just keep bow. seeing this living arrangement with all of your other needs and get clear on which opportunity cost you're willing to accept. That's all that really matters not how your friends perceive you now that they live in a five story: walk up and pay their own spectrum bill wildly ignore their nest, eggs in great job on thinking so far ahead. I think that's awesome I'll be all enjoyed that I want to thank everyone who wrote in this week and everyone who listened go back and check out and
gold and Gary Vainer Chuck if you haven't yet. If you want to know, I managed to book all of these great guests here on the show it's about systems, software and tiny habits. I'm teaching you how to dig the well before you get thirsty over in our six minutes networking course and that courses free it's over the think. If it platform at Jordan, harbinger dot com, Slash course a link to the show notes for the episode can be found at Jordan, harbinger dot com transcripts or in the show notes, I'm at Jordan, Harbinger on Twitter and Instagram. You can also connect with me on linked in you, fine gave on Twitter at Gabe, Ms Raw he or on Instagram at Gabriel, Ms Rocky. This shows created an associate She was broadcast one. My team is Jen Harbinger, Jason, Sanderson Robber, photography bared, Milly, Ocampo, Josh, Ballard and, of course, Gabriel. Ms right, our advice, Indians. Those are our own. I'm a lawyer, I'm not your lawyer. Do your own research before implementing anything you here on this show Ditto Michel later meant Doktor Margolis his input.
General psychological information based on research and clinical experience. Its intends be general and informational in nature. It does not represent or indicate and establish clinical or professional relationship with those inquiring for guidance, and you should know that anyway, remember we as by lifting others who share the show with those you love and if you found this episode useful, please share with somebody else you can use the advice we gave here today. In the meantime, do your best to why what you hear on the show, so you can live what you listen and we'll see you next time if you're looking for another episode of the Jordan Harbinger, show to sink your teeth into here's, a trailer for another episode with retired astronaut, Chris Hadfield, I watched the first two people walk and the moon, and I thought I gotta go something why don't I grow up to be banned? That was thing ever it is purely a direct result of all little minute by minute decisions, but I made some start, when I was a kid Christian and ten, when I get the telephone calls
asking if I would like to be an astronaut I was at the top of my profession. I was the top I would in the U S, maybe as a canadian and then should be selected as an astronaut suddenly a guy who knows nothing in my office and I like a complete impostor, zero right now, whenever anybody has offered to teach me somethin for free. I have always taken about it. Are you getting ready for the major events in your life, the things that matter to the things that are consequence I sort of waiving probably turnout. Ok, are you actually used? the time available to get ready for it. Maybe it will turn out ok, but if the stakes are high, It is just about a gamble who willingly Jake if a company like You know. I really need to know that you're just what else can I do for a living is visualize failure figuring out the next day going to kill you and then practice. Over and over again until we can beat that we know how to deal with it, then
you do a much better job and a more calm and comfortable way of doing it is well you don't method here not overwhelmed by and if something you could do. While thinking of something else you ve noticed how beautiful it is. How magnificent is how much point it is you're not just completely overwhelmed by the demands of the moment, for more on how Commander Chris Hadfield managed to stay focused on his dream, starting at age, nine, to become the first Canadian to walk in space check out episode. Four zero. Eight of the Jordan Harbinger Show.
Transcript generated on 2022-02-27.