Coming up next on the Jordan Harbinger Show, and he was running this huge company the time and he says well, I'm going to This other trade, your Germany next week, is a in. I call you they are caught in a month or something I go. I lie I've never been anywhere Mahal. I've been, I think, I've been to to Germany before I said well de there right I go. I want to seem like a big, shall I gotta be it the industry that you're gonna, be it s a really sick? I guess I'll meet you there. Then I made the point with him. Then try to get a passport book. My ticket flew to Germany. Just have a thirty minute meeting with this guy because I so badly wanted it. Give him my concept and then he basically, when I call you send me case, sunny like nice to meet you, but like thanks, but no thanks and then I was like oh ok and then I guess I guess it's on and then it was like competition right. Ultimately, I ended up taking their company down in less than eight years later to the ground.

Welcome to the show, I'm Jordan Harbinger on the Jordan Harbinger show we decode the stories, secrets and skills of the world's most fascinating people. Every episode we have again death. Conversations with me, for the top of their game, astronauts and entrepreneurs, spies and psychologists. The occasional legendary Hollywood director, russian spy or war correspondent. You get the idea. Each episode turns our guests wisdom into practical advice that you can use to be a deeper understanding of how the world works and become a better critical thinker if you're to the show or looking for a healthy way to tell your friends about it. We now have episode. Starter packs, he's your collections of your favorite up, its organised by popular topics, tell new listeners get a taste everything we do here on the show just visit, Jordan, harbinger dot com, slash start to get started. or to help somebody else get started. I always appreciate that, of course

today on the show my body irrelevant. He took a very unconventional path to entrepreneurship. Starting office is, frankly a lost cause and ended up creating the largest street. Where convention history is called complex kind if you're in the apparel industry or anywhere near it. You ve absolutely heard of this. He now The network actresses Cuvier, see for the Youtube generation cells one thing per day and most stores cell hundreds of things are even more thousands of things everyday, this absolute one thing per day and it's a huge deal. I found out about it because it's trending on twitter regularly and like the number one or number to spot, because their selling some shoe that you can't get anywhere else. It's really something else, invest include Lebron James Drake. So this is really a kind of a big deal. I usually don't tell entrepreneur or business stories on the show, but this one had a bit of a unique angle and Aaron is a fun and very open storyteller, so I thought I'd give it a shot. Let me know if you think my only

I claim to fame. Of course. Is that case, where did sneaker with me last year and it sold out in just a couple of days and my theory is not that they were popular. I think they just didn't make that many, because they probably thought who's gonna. Jordan, Aravind your shoes that they were only available for a few weeks. Unfortunately, but if you got them can go Relations, you have a limited edition. Jordan harbinger shoe how did I get on this topic anyway? If you're wondering I managed to book all these great authors, thinkers and creators every single week, it's because of my network, and I'm teaching you how to build your network for free over at George harbinger, dotcom, slashed, coarse and by the way most of the guests on our show they already subscriber the course. And the newsletter to come. Join us you'll, be in small companies. Now here's irrelevant so called

place. Con was the biggest event in street where in the whole scene you started it and I take it. You had years of experience in industry. Slowly work your way up the corporate a ladder right. I know that's not the case. How did it start complex com was was really fun. Amazing, I reject it kind of wasn't evolution of something I've been doing for the last ten or so years before,

at which is I had started when I was nineteen years old and independent street, where trade your company called agenda, a very, very organically, like very small, in the back of a tie, restaurant in two thousand and three miles, nineteen right and over the course of the next decade that had evolved to become the biggest street, where Sneaker Action Sports trade show in the world like a b to be event, and in two thousand and twelve in December I sold that company to read exhibitions or red pop, which was the group inside of exhibitions, the biggest trade show and convention company in the world at the time and they owned near COMECON. They owned over five hundred different events, and many of them were focused. So my core fan communities and over the next couple years I can at this early hour. I stayed on and ran the company after I sold it

learned a lot about the fan convention, business specifically near COMECON, in the guys who work with about the company for me started near COMECON. You know I saw an evolution happening in the industry. Where beat a b was dying, retail was dying, but in a direct consumer was this huge growing portion of the market and this fact communities were bubbling social media so a round that time. I hooked up with one of my men tours and idle mark ECHO who, if you're a kid growing up and you like entrepreneurial ism in Graffiti Mercosur, Michael Jordan. I got to talk with him and he started complex media, which is obvious, huge digital media brand, and you see a magazine, and you know I just said to him some time in two thousand and fifteen in January. I said why don't we do complex con, which is this thinking of combining this expertise. I had and physical events and brands and bringing people together and marketplace and and his huge consumer reach and their consumer facing brennus of its mash it together and take the learning that I had from the

your comecon team and let's create comecon of sneaker culture, and that idea was met with enthusiasm. We basically worked for the next two years to make that idea. Reality we launched in November of twenty sixteen, and it was a joint venture between my company in his and here the restless history. It was the very quickly overnight, the biggest exactly we described we set out to do, create comecon fur, sneaker, culture and and. culture account to go back to your childhood, because you mention graffiti and I'm guessing, I mean usually kids, for integration. we are also in the other things that don't really align well with like getting great gray it's going to get it, I'm not always, but there is usually something else going on right. I think what you're pointing to is a general defiant nature right there you find in you know, communities skateboarding, graffiti, in a generally being a rebel being abandoned its all it ray, and I was drawn to that at a time

age, for whatever reason it was an outlet fur in I was semi artistic- learning disabilities? I didn't do well in school. I think my mom cause I'm opposition. We defiant, which means you have a tendency to go against any authority figure my life. She told a story that I walked into a kindergarten on the first day in the principal asked me. A question like you know, kicked him in the late great. I think I just I was This need to just rebelled for whatever reason, and then graffiti was this outlet for me to be creative and whether you are in Class drawing and not paying attention to eventually evangelizing walls in your local city. It's something that I was drawn to in it and then had parallels to music in a parallel skateboarding to design. Ultimately, that's what led me to a career in wanting to work was. I saw graffiti writers that I looked up to getting jobs is graphic designers, creating clothing brands. You know even some like Mark ECHO I mentioned earlier, and he was graffiti writer- turned t, shirt, airbrush or turn into the first billion dollar street, where label right and then I came out of a passion for four graffiti in ST art. You know this. Isn't a pre?

Shepard, Fairey Pre Banksy world, that you know somebody to order onto this. So how is school for you aside from kicking the principal in the leg that seems like a pretty auspicious start yeah. You know I struggled really hard because I'm dyslexic and there's a reading and writing for me and my motor skills weren't there and I think, that's commonly misconstrued with nothing intelligent, and I have a lot of opinions on the structure of our school and how it has an event call Jenny, know there's a lot of. I think smart, really creative people who get left behind in the system and president do whatever do the on tease sats and it you don't test. Well, you know. The comic inception is at least a scoop. Respect you're, not smartly, you're gonna get college and you know that your life is doomed if you dont perform well in these and these preconceived notions, and I think I may a poster child for being that- that's not true right. I absolutely failed in all my school. I did so poorly and at such terrifying experiences in fourth grade I literally took I couldn't go back to school.

because we're laughing at me every day they do those round about reading in the room. Every kid could read a paragraph and go table to table right. Night stood up, and I was studying and concrete can rely get me- and I was literally in left off of cap- is right like it was an embarrassing experience for me and I have for a long time. I I thought that I was never going to amount to much because the system that was created in public school and private school in America, At least I believe you can't do well at at their notion of reading, writing and arithmetic or history than you're, not smart, which is just not true right. I struggled from alimentary school to the beginning, a high school behaviorally and academically and I got kicked out of school the second week of tenth grade and I never really finished high school and I never went to college, and I think my parents probably also believed in that notion that notion cause. We been conditionally that shirt. I wasn't going. succeed economically right. What do they think now? I mean obviously there proud of them now, but are they like what happened, or they like, oh

Tal time you are just the square peg that we, everyone was turned crime through the round hole. I think my parents, jet they believed in me, and I think most parents want to believe in their children, but there were some times were. There are really worried right when I was getting in trouble when I was getting kicked out. Cool when I was in a constantly being called in here. They are being called by. The principles must coursing earn, is a huge problem here. Right he's he's not only a problem for himself and securities caused distracting and causing problems for other kids, and you know I start and arrested a huge problem, and there is a period after I kicked out of high school when in alike like going downtown meeting with street where brands doing creative stop doing our in one of their friends sandy walking on the street in downtown and called them and said in a siren, downtown Missy buying drugs. In a like that, thought I was really going down this bad path. I think they were legitimately worry to the point where, like I think they even considered having an intervention with me and like having me taken away till one of those like in a boarding school the middle of Utah reliving we elderly right like, and I actually did something like that at one point, but luckily they saw

over time that I have found a passion, but there was a turning point for me when you know channel in managing the wrong way and elderly. When I found a business that is interesting, I shipped it pretty quickly, sometime around sixteen seventeen to really changing my my energy from negative to a positive thing right. But until that point I think probably helpfully scared appear. I mean look the idea, that a neighbour or a friend of your family would call the cops or your pay. And anyway, because they think it buying drugs, but really you just had a job in eight that part hadn't occurred to them, whether it was it because you had a job you are at work are going to work. I was down town in turning for this company was a kind of where I got my start because of the very early days like it graffiti based teach your company and allay which ultimately like how I got my foot in the door and kind of sharing my life around but like down. China is a cool place now with itself one thousand, nine hundred and ninety eight one thousand nine hundred and ninety nine. It was a dangerous place that you would go to unless you were like buying raw materials from a factory or buying crack or something right,

in July. So we know they didn't know what I was doing right, but there's pray healthy concern based on my behavior and where I was at my age, Cubey are downtown. Delay is still pretty rough, like even around the house. You I stayed. There are a couple months ago you walk outside in your like there's a metal foundry on this road wire. This is like and then you walking in there's like burned out stuff or abandoned stuff. when you look around from the balcony of saw out, there's a lot of like Otto Body parts manufacturing or like repair shops. I mean it looks like it straight out again theft, auto, oh and then there's like the booty stores on one street. That's not right, thereby that stuff was. It was all that back that there's a stark contrast now, and it is a relatively new thing in the last two to three years like the gentrification of downtown away with similar Wagner Williamsburg whenever that happen in downtown, but were in that part where, like they're, still the right thing and then the brand new shiny thing like intersecting down there, which is an interesting thing to watch. It is interesting, I think it's, funny and tragic, and speaks a lot about

but you grew up where your family friend said I think he's Erin might be buying drugs when it's, he could have a job and their light. Please he's probably buying drugs. Don't worry about it. You he's levelled by drugs. Dyslexia. Do you think is that is You in your career, somehow, because you ve had to learn how to work around it read. I don't know if it's help me, but I think I generally avoid all the kind of life I do have one emailing people. I avoid most written communication. I try to do stuff verbally in our face to face setting its help. Man and being more going cuz. I had to communicate with people in a more direct way and some people are just scared to pick up the phone right and call people they think it's presale be right. So, like I never was good at like in the written language. I just pick up the phone I just show up places are talking to people, so I think by osmosis I just started to like be really good at communication. Verbal attending

in person communications. I think that really lead me to be more outgoing, even on the generally and infrared shy person that I think you know when people met me, they're like who's, this six the inner Nigeria caters. I got here trying to sell me on this idea, like I am actually like intrigue with this guy, like it's almost so comical that he showed up here to try to like talk to me about this business idea like I'm intrigued by him, and they wanted to work with me cuz. I thought it was cute or endearing right, there's like an element of its ballsy and brazen that it's like, ok, normally. I wouldn't want to take this meeting, but I want to The little world like child whose trying to sell me flying over to this tie, restaurant in doing a buying, a booth or whatever at his pretend event, and then it's like dot dot, dot biggest event the world for the scene.

Have you ever seen this interview with Steve Jobs re talks about when he was a big nine years old or something called up the founder of Hewlett Packard. He got his number in the phone book and he asked if he could bison parts from him and the guy. I think whenever his name was Hewlett, Packard thought it was so cute. I did Steve over the factory. He gave him the parts in any offer, an internship there and steep talks about like most people. Just don't have the balls to ask rave anxious to pick up the phone and just ass people, things right naively average scared in this, like Instagram culture of showing your success. No one is like really willing to put themselves out there right cause, or so fearful of failings, I think there's something in a pre social media era that you know was really valuable to dislike being so vulnerable right in business and trying things yes, you're right. There's something also about the brazen this or that the goal of the audacity of of these moves. I remember when I was a kid. My mom always tells the story. I don't remember it really, but I wanted to stereos. I called

every stereos store in town to get prices in some stores wouldn't give me prices because they want you to go in right, and I remember this one store saying we can't give you prices it's against the law, and I was like that weird because other stores are giving me prices I'd call back and I kept asking the guy wouldn't give me prices, and I said other stars are giving the prices in euros. Will there breaking the law, and so I called the FBI and I, if it was again for then give me praises. every age and that each word office was like dear parents know that you're calling the fbi- and I was like no- but they try to get a call- the ABC warehouse in they wouldn't tell me the price of the stairs, so they called my, later in. They, like your son, called the FBI, I'd ask about stereo pricing and we're all getting a good laugh about it, but we just thought you should know that you're so called the F B. I show my mom's like mortify in his leg. Ok, don't call

FBI anymore, will just take you to the stereo store, but that other guy he was lying someone I kind of life from here. I love that it's like a ridiculous thing that you do when you are wired, in whatever way that your wired or in that does Steve Jobs or what trying to claim that I'm wired the same Steve jobs, don't get me wrong, but it just one of those things that you do when you probably are pretty didn't and does not have a real job. In start, a business like you or me out, which has got to where we were. We were headed why trade shows, though it seems it seems. Random kind of unsexed see right a lot of entrepreneurs. They start with something sexy like their designing the clothes they are not trying to figure out event, logistics and sell booths right they're, trying to spray paints I have no idea. Why and I'm just gonna tell you I got there and it was not planned is one of the things you I fell into. I heard this guy speak Jack curls at the founder of stance, socks and skill.

Can these routes marking ollila, loves stance? Yeah he's a pick, a business herbs big were recently not back then, and he was like you know. Music people complain their businesses margin. Cyclopes argue as entrepreneur get to pick a business that has big margins, and he knows it can navigate to what success looks like, and I didn't realize that, knowing I navigated into a really great industry- and I was exactly said- I was a graphic designer who is designing street, where tee shirts than I had my own brand, and that we can unlock my path in industry. Having my own brand and working at a brand, we were going to a lot of trade shows and through Gonna wanna trade shows cost a lot of money were independent company. So this is when, like that, that necessity thing or like I found some is broken. I said: oh these guys just five thousand dollars to attend their shows a little Brenda. They don't care about us in the shelves in the corner. So by being a disgruntled customer, I then try New York. I saw this one show that just rent it aloft in so how and they charged less money and you dont have to build a big booth and you had a racket was about the product unless it. Oh, I looked round, and I said what are these guys? Do they rented a room

and submit it to people and let the bring your unrolling rack, and does it really simple business MIKE? I could do this so then I saw this big show that was happening? California, for thirty five years, called the action sports retailer show s are big huge owned by Nielsen Business Here they were in other big company bitterly rejects AIDS, and I said what I just set up a show across the street from them in charge, my friends, five hundred dollars post five thousand, and it wasn't about making a business it was about. We don't want to pay Man right? Yes, we do want to pay a bunch of money and then beside lines. I said: ok, so called up. My friends and I think I m a rent. This restaurant across the street Use Como Rumsey Charging. What it costs me to do the thing. Basically, an emerald Psycho, Canada, thirty brands to shop to the first one, and by no means is it meant to be a business by discovered from the first one. I turned a little profit, not even intentionally it's one of the few businesses where you get paid before you provide the good of the service.

and it has a seventy percent gross margin and I just gotta stumbled into- and I said: ok, I did it again for such our five hundred than a chart. Seven hundred foresight, thirty brands and fifty brands and just started go and I turn around us. It wait. I've been going at this clothing business for few years, I'm not really getting anywhere I said why don't you go do this and I just shifted my energy away in like two thousand and four and the thing just kind of continued to build organically over the next year, then like became a real business, but by no means that I, like trade, shows, was I interested in trade shows I just kind of fell into it out of something I was passionate about, and I kind of became passionate that events could channel my creativity, cuz. I got to work with a lot of creative and over the next ten years it just became the biggest thing in the world in that category. In I didn't know anything about the industry and ice how beat the incumbent through pure naive nests and just continued persistency. There is a lot of hostile, and some of the story is that you tell I watch some your presentations and I listened to some other, a red, some other interviews that you had in magazines. There's a story where youth

lie to Germany to take a meeting. I'd love to hear about that cause. That's that's what I'm talking about. When I see these life brazen audacious young people or not so young people, for just like I'm gonna, take in this way. That's a little bit unprecedented and it doesn't have to be over the top like expensive or involved or over. Permit you to something: that's gonna! U don't after mortgage your house twice, but who the hell flies to Germany to take meeting with somebody who lives like I don't probably ten miles away from them, which makes no sense yeah. This is how You buy worse. I started the stranger and again in the context I was trying to make money. I just wanted to find a place for my brand of my friends brands to exhibit were we felt like we were important and not shoved in the corner right we're just another number. So did it two times and was going well, but like I don't want to make this a business. I saw the big show action, sports retail. I just picked up the phone. I called the head of it

twenty years old. Maybe at the time still, nineteen in- and I said, hey man- I said I'm the guy the deplorable shore customary message: can I read space from? U S is quite a hassle renting a building Joseph as it when I just rent a lot of space from you to discount and me my friends can about our own sex Bessie. I wanna give the business away and you know what I was doing. a guy goes. He a little bit like those crazy that I called him and he was running the huge copy the time and he says well I'm going to this other trade, your Germany next week, he's like in. I call you there Are you a month or something I go? I lied. I had never been anywhere Mahala manner. I think I've been to to Germany before I said, will Be that right I go. I want to seem like a big, shall I gotta be it the industry that you're gonna be? It is a real well, I guess I'll meet you there. Then I may not with him, then try to get a passport book. My ticket flew to Germany. Just have a thirty minute meeting with this guy cause. I so badly wanted to give him my car, set and then he basically what I call you send me. He just basically like hey sunny like a nice to meet you, but like thanks, but no thanks and then I was like oh, ok and then

I guess I guess it's on and then it was like competition right, but I have so badly wanted to like make a business with this guy or make him feel like. I was on the level, and he just dismay you know I didn't realize at the time, but you know ultimately I ended up taking their but he down less than eight years later to the ground. But there's a mindset thing here too right, because if you get son You say it right. Someone's like. Oh look, look, Sonny boy! This is not for you. You can't do this like. Why are you wasting my time cute that you're out here most people go Oh man, I'm too young. I don't have the cloud that I'm going to get laughed out of the room and you were like no I'm going to now. I have to choke you out, like I had to take you down, I'm going to figure this out. You are go, A lot of people don't think that way. A lot of people would be may be. Sad may be disappointed, maybe even angry, but very few people then turn around and get focused and then like dismantle that entire business sit in front of that guy yeah.

don't know what motivated me, but I felt maybe similar. Position yet finds a guide and high scores like ok cause, I go, let's go better and it was born. I join competition would generally competitive Listen I like having an adversary on the Dark board. Like people talk about or why a lot so people out this kind of like Bavaria esoteric mission. There went to save the world that are trying to do good stuff, the world too, but I think in business in a for profit business like you, gotta have a Pepsi to your cocoa. I got some of your slugging it out with everyday. It kind of gives you purpose to get up everyday and work hard cuz if you're just competing against yourself. That's good! You do apple talk about like they don't that what you know Dell is doing or whatever it Samsung is doing, and I understand perspective, but I like having someone to Duke it out with. I think it makes a sharper listening to the Jordan Harbinger show with our guest air in the vat. We'll be right back, this episode is sponsored in part by build for tomorrow. Build for tomorrow is

we produce narrative show and each episode dig deep into a big question historical moment or critical innovation. That can help us understand how change happens. It hits a lotta notes, history, technology, business, psychology and general curiosity about the world, but the overarching theme is that change can be positive and that we always benefit when we focus on the opportunities ahead. So you can see why I enjoy the show some other things discussed our. Why are we so obsessed with the good old days? Are we really addicted to technology, our participation trophies, actually bad for kids? Should we, talk to strangers. Why do people hate being told what to do? These are all questions and problems near and dear to my own heart, when you listen to build for Tom You learn that today's worries are often just echoes of yesterday's worries and the future is really full of opportunity. That's why I listen to say the show helps them feel more optimistic. I tend to agree to check out build for tomorrow, wherever you get your podcast and stay tuned after this episode of the show for a trailer of build for tomorrow, right at the very end of the show

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the days of scope for free thanks so much for listening to the show ya know, I really appreciate it, of course, those who support our sponsors. I really appreciate that too. That's what keeps the lights on around here. If you want to see him one place, all the codes, all the deal's go to Jordan, huh, and you're dot com. Slash deals. Please do consider supporting those who support us we also worksheets for every episode that we make for you. If you want some of the drills or exercises are key, take away from this episode of the show go to the show notes at Jordan Heart, you're not come. Slash. Podcast will have linked right up in there and now back to in the vote on the Jordan Harbinger show whether there is benefit too Having arrival, I was talking with this guy, Simon Cynic, got enough. You know him. He talks about one of my favorites, yes, that he was on the show talks a lot about finding your why? But he also mentioned the same thing about having worthy rival, not someone you hate or think is despicable, or that you are looking down on in some way, but somebody who's leg healthy that you respect me

you even like them and you're just looking at I mean you're goin, you know like Puma Adidas. something like that right, like I don't know the whole business story there, but I think those we're just kind of like one. They split I don't know how much animosity brothers, so they probably had some odd thanksgiving giving. But it wasn't like one guys, knifing, the other guys car tyres or something like that right or was it that bad at or now it got bad it first it wasn't animosity for me. I just want the continued to push forward and then they started to get nasty and like trying to call the city and pull my permits and it got really really there. can a gangster on me right, like oh there, like now I do not want to work with you and I work in a squeeze you out and then I kind of like ok and I just kept the pedal the metal but like in. I was watching they will report on you to the city to like shut down your events yeah I like I was so young get it knowing you do like this special that permits are these fire department, like safety code permits? I just would like holding these events and they will call the the fireman. I'm like aw that basic drop Adeimantus, unlike the fire marshal,

Europe is like hey kid like us, two minutes from opening the doors, my second of that and that the farmers like a cashier special about permit knows it what's a special about permanent, I'm lucky guy was so nice he's like basic, unlike in a shut this kid down his allow you down to the city hall right now expedite when, for you so nice, but like they literally were trying to shut down my business and down around that time had watched and sometimes a document, her interview with the guy that founded Home Depot, one of you this guy story now. Really his guy was really competitive and basically in the beginning of depot, when they move to a new city when they open up their big super centre, they'd send a black wreath to the owner of a local high, where store. They were like work here to kill you, and I was like got inspired by the kind of economic it's on a leg. Let's, let's do this enough, so it was like six years of heated competition in a blow. blow and then in two thousand and nine they are. They just call the quick they shut the company down and I started in two thousand and three so you know it was. It was on

one of the things it seems like you do. A lot is ask for forgiveness and not for permission right. That's an example of a rag. What's a special event permit Maybe that was a little bit more naivete verses like I'm just going to do it and let's see if the fire marshal even shows up that's a little bit. You just did it out of like sheer ignorance. I guess you could say, but you did go from light. Basically a juvenile delinquent to delinquency seo in a few years right. It's kind of the opposition and overnight success story like most businesses. Actually, our pretty slope going. I'm wondering what you think are the limits of that document. People go Yemen as for forgiveness and not permission, but that only works until doesn't. And then it's like. Oh Europe, you did something really. Added nerved screwed. I don't want it why anyone to do anything illegal under the context of what's legal. I think that no one is going to hand you anything for sitting around waiting for someone. Recognize your good worker recognise all the good you been doing.

Innovation is going to happen if you're waiting for someone do until you hand it to you, it's not going to happen, so you got to go out and take it right for lack of a better example. That's where that model comes from ask for forgiveness, not permission and a lot of times in a first. I did it out of pure naivete to us the matter and then I realized that works and in a even in my corporate adult life. In practice, this at scale and I'll see you in a chaperone complex gone, who we were doing complex con. By that time, I saw my company as technically and employee of a big cute. They traded seven Billy not accompany you know. We wanted to really do this deal with a huge celebrity, my name, but you know to do the deal that we had to give him. Some percentage points of complex gone said competition, this big in contractual. joint venture between rise in media relics, a huge public Madrid accompanying even look school consumers too big public iterative conglomerates owned. It said it give somebody equity in an event, you need to contact the lawyers who I am I am I

parents talking allows for a while that they never get anything that now it's gotta be slow. So I went. I said this is in the best interests of the business, and I said here is an opportunity for us to change the trajectory of our business. So I went and I gave that guy equity and I signed the contract. I never talk to any lawyers in any side, and I said you know what I said if they find out about this thinking to fire me right, absolutely like stuffing cause to fire me- and I said, but when they see the result that I'm gonna drive, they're gonna be so happy there

This event went off and it was she was successful and the sea of the company high five. I know everyone's high fighting all round and then at the end I said hey guys by the way I did get this guy some equity to do this and that all that's great, what a wonderful thing, but if I were told him on the up front, it never would have happened, and it's like those moments where you just need to have the the followed through to just say like you need to just make, should happen and like going through the system and waiting for all the you know. The checks and balances and all the decision makers and stakeholders sometimes is, is not the right way to do it and you gotta, just you know you gotta make a calculator, decision went to just pull the trigger and and there's an example. If I did it and it worked great, but I was risking something right yeah I would have asked for forgive us, please. No fire me right but, like I don't have to, I mean for Well, you definitely got lucky that the event went off without a hitch, but I wonder how much you thought about the downside: was it like? Ok and if it doesn't work so he's got ten percent equity but the event not profitable, so you really doesn't get anything so no harm no file, or will you just like screw it under

can gonna, given the equity, because it's gonna pop off. I thought about what Downside was probably not as so calculated I just Do in my heart. It was the right thing to do and I was acting in the best interests of the company, whether they realize around sometimes, and sometimes when you get involved big companies, they don't even know their in their best interest. You and you have to be a an entrepreneur in residence at a big company fever. Work with one to get things done. Is most people operate under the confines of the system in oh yeah, they ask for the whole pass enow from the teacher. I gotta go right and you know you risk getting wrist slap, people find reasons to say no and they don't embrace new ideas very often so you got just do it and then they always when you're successful course era severe best friend, but you know they don't know how to get there. Yeah yeah. That's that's a really good point. How quickly did you go from, let's say like broke and hustler for every dollar and hoping ends meet and in making this work in a business to looking at your bank account in disbelief the good kind of disbelief I mean

it's an interesting like when I was running that trade show company agenda. You know I was living up. My parents house until I was twenty four in her right. And most people to move at a teen where I know that's change this day and age, but ten fifteen years ago, that was very different story and at it raise money for the company I didn't. I didn't have this like what would ve see backed entrepreneurs consider their burn rate ran. You know they have like a point like the business and right, because I just did it independently at it- pay myself a salary. I lived at my parents house and I just spent no money. I just keep going and going for a long time, certain five six years. I've made nothing right and most people would have given up they begged. This is not successful business I was able to push through that. Then, when money started coming in it was dramatic. I must look alike, Amazon that they lost money for all this time. In that I'll send these made a huge profit making. There is like this dramatic ship so to remember the year, but it was probably about two thousand and seven two thousand and eight we went for making no money to like

all the sudden. Like you know, I wear and deposited like a multi hundred thousand dollar check in the bank and, like is the same bank. Why parents bank that, unlike you today, in relation to my parents and like again same thing. They, like the banker called my mother, had said: hey errands deposits, cash check for quarter million dollars in the bank. Like this, he selling drugs and that I was like I got someone's attention and then from their own. It was pretty good, but, like you know, is it also make like minimum wage working for myself and then it was like boom I'll, send I'm putting like noise at all the banks as a weird moment, but it just yet took a long time. There- and that was when I got that phone You know now I did something right. I guess there's also mindset there too, because I think a lot of people if their family friend calls Elsa parents, they are broadly buying drugs in downtown away, and then the banker calls and says he's, probably laundering money are for a drug cartels or whatever they are dealing with the two hundred and fifty grand. You tell us a lot of people

like you know all these people. They don't have faith in me me, they're right, but you are just like good. I want you to feel like surprised, because that's what I'm here for right, there's a part of you. That's like good! I got your attention you're, looking at things in a different way than I think, a lot of people would there's a competitive natured. All of it there's a guess. Maybe I felt like I have something to prove due to how often I was doubted in my life and career for a long time that totally makes sense that till it makes it's kind of like I don't know about you, but there are times, and I I can't believe I'm building this, but even now were I think I'll. Do something in this business and I'll go. Take that fourth grade teacher, like You don't think it's like messes up here and you thought that I wasn't gonna be able to do anything with my life and I'm killing it near probably been dead for twenty years puts whatever I were. I win this round it. I do think about that occasion. I gotta find Mr Mysel my Middle school principle. I'm sure you would be quite shocked, probably he'd be like earth, it that's the kid the kitten

the leg now you can bet you'd have by the whole, though, building and turn it into an art installation. That's not what I saw coming. I know that you're not driven by money. You ve said that a few times, but your driven by the thrill of the hind. I think that's you. Let's one of the reasons that you're successful, because you're not obsessed with all the little line, items on the piano and all that stuff. I understand that the business in the money set out of it through said it wasn't were started. I was started from a pussy passion and I've made a decent amount of money, but then I'm not the kind of person to spend it right. I don't have a Rolex Watch. I don't have a ferrari at eight, I mean like those things that the conventional things you would get with money. So you know the thing that drives me is definitely not the the result of the money. I think it's the the process of getting there and I like having it for security, but I've never been like. I want to do this, so I can make one million dollars right like it. Just never was part of my thought process and I think often a lot of people who do it for money, whatever it, maybe

their first thing that they set out as their mission going to our friend Simon Centigrade, like the. Why? If there, why is aiming to make a billion dollars than usually those people fail? And there's nothing really behind that idea, and I don't know if I had that Simon Cynic Approach strategically but kind of organically, like I did some good, I, like our graffiti in a kind of stumbled and all these things I've been passion about along the way But maybe, MR your question now that that's always good whenever anybody misses the question is always better: they answer the question that they want to ask because it's always a better answer anyway. There. I know that you are focused on culture, energy and ideas, not budget line. whatever is there a point at which you I mean you'd know it out of necessity, as you mentioned, but do you normally try to higher for that? Or do you do a lot of that yourself? Are you gonna? Look a hierarchy, Oh, I can't be in the weeds on this, I'm not good at If I may to outsource it or do you just kind of ignoring the I dont you? Obviously that's not what you do know of

always been really pro finding someone, that's the right, brain or left brain like if I'm taking created by find someone even early on in my treasure business, my cousin, I hired him in Europe. because he knew how to use excelling quit books- and I didn't write like tat- is always that person in those people are super valuable in this business network that I'm in now I've got lost, people who are really operationally minded financially minded and I've learned that suffer the. As I know, it's not my strength and my strength is in being creative, being aggressive and combining those two things. But, like you know, you have to have those people. I think every great creatively led business entrepreneur where they're up front. Are you see them? Are there the inner, the unsung euro behind the scenes at its super super important that you recruit those people that you value those people, because otherwise the ideas whenever scale- and I think, tat all those peoples- credit they're, the ones who kept me from going off the cliff and meaning like? I would have in numerous occasions

bent us off the cliff facing some wild creative idea in every business have ever done in a hold on rights of ice. They spend a hundred. They spend zero and well spent fifty and keeps that even you're right and right and often I can be accused, rightfully so, of wanting to go over the cliff creatively I am also like that in my wife, who runs this business with me, will be like we agreed on a budget. This is twice the budget now might put it so awesome and she was what if we spend the budget now measure the results and then the which is like the same thing and teddy right and then carefully and then alike. want to do the big thing and she's like I know you and I feel like a Keto child, but I'm like at cuz that you know she's right and you you're operations. People are right, but there's just a part of what you want to do that I just wanna, hit the gas man. I want to hear the gassing go it knowing them moment, though you know that sometimes where the head, but incomes is like there's that moment

you have as the entrepreneur where you're like. Ok, these guys did a good job. We got here with the business profitable like there is a point you need to go back in and reinvest yeah and that sometimes where they had money comes in and having, whenever the nose or the feeling to know. When that moment, as and when the point to put your foot down ago, no one really going for it here and, like you know, that was complex kind. I was certain things like we're: gonna go I would like you to put our money where our mouth is and take a big moon shot. It's a risk and like that's the art of businesses, knowing what to do that and not listening to those people, but you gotta listen to eighty four yet now that's a good role. I like that. I know you and, I spent a lot of different things, but they all seem to be indifferent spaces. You ve got hot source. You ve got events you ve got experiential stuff. Outside trough is really good by the way, I'm the Lincoln in the show out some happy like a dude. I've been hammer it down? I've got the three different varieties. My wife's, like you, put that on everything. I'm so good. A whole house likes it that for those of you who are not sure what we're talking about its truffle oil, hot sources,

the simplest way to explain it. Its black travel hearts us their yeah. It's delicious and it's not overpowering a lot of people like you, gotta be careful. Twelve oil re Archer black travel because it can overpower all the other flavors in this is a good mix. I M really dig in it, but you ve got you got hot sauce. You ve got clothing, You know all these different investments. Do you research the space or do you just kind of trust people bring you good ideas and you go well. I trust Jordan. So I'm gonna go with this idea because the rest of it good. Are you like really getting in the weeds? The right and where the reason on how and why I've invested in things is a complete chaos theory and there was no thought behind it I would say now, twenty years my career, I start to have a little bit of an idea of what a good investment in. What's not, I would say the majority of essence I made are the ones that were not and has been a few shining objects having good. So I was have the track record of venture capital firm that addressed

Ninety per cent failure rate, but I didn't know I was doing angel investing in venture capital know what investing was about it and understand evaluation, innocent anything. I'm just gonna meet people on my way- and I happen to be in a creative industry where hey I was doing the clothing trade show and I was working with this brand called primitive, which is owned by the skater Pollard Regos, and he's very successful, Proske hatred of our successful Brandon him and his team communist and we're starting a beer company and, I said, will be the first action sports beer company, I'm not even a fan of beer and they said. Will you talk to the guy's your interest in putting money in the sky? Josh shows up on my office with a bottle we are looking at his house. I don't know a good beer as I took a set of it, and if you will invest and alike, I didn't ask him devaluation and understand it. I don't know anything about preferred stock comments. I know anything I said sure, and I like put some money right and next thing. You know. Three years later, they sell accompanied Miller cures for like a hundred plus million dollars right. What is totally random. I just

like the guys, it seemed like a nominal risk at the time, and I just gonna did it so like all this investing thing, spun, what I should do more of this, yet and you know the another guy. Friends with job Hashemi used like up like a high and sneaker designer you know comes to me, I'm having dinner with them. and then I told them. I really was passionate hot sauce and was trying to start a hot US companies, like always my seat, YO and his son, or trying to start out US company and introduce me to these two kids, who has had an idea to do hots Oscar they are trying to do it. They had time and money. I have money in no time and these guys had no experience, and I just can't like this- Guys- and I was like- I well John- put money into this thing and we are working. Together and next thing. You know we ve got the number one helps us company and hopefully nationwide right, I would say pure stupidity or Even this has fallen into these investments at it.

Four is gonna win your way into these things, man don't like. If I now I like it with everything of my career, I really believe that ignorant. If it was a ignorance, is bliss. I blew the ignorance is rich, because if I try to go back in your trade, your company, I in no way too much about it now, and I tried I over analyzing paralysis by analysis right, so and looked at these guys like? Well, you don't know anything about food, you anything what hearts are generating retracted. Consumer you're in a one guy was a Hoopdriver, an attack recruiter and the other guy was a busboy caturia. Those are the two kids. The variety of truck these kids are private tumors genius, casinos of any seepage accompanying the space right now. But he looked at them on paper. They would have no, but it's ok. I just got a feeling. I like these guys. I I will put my money, my energy, behind these two guys out of nothing other than I like them Conventional wisdom would lead you there. This is the Gordon Harbinger show with our guest Erin Levant, this episode of sponsored in part by better help online therapy,

We talk about better help, a lot on the show, and rightfully so this month were discussing some of the stigmas around mental health. We ve been taught that mental health shouldn't be up, the normal life, I think that's crazy wrong. We take care of our bodies at the gym. We go to the doctor. We take care of nutrition, maybe not so much on the holidays, but we should be, because in our minds, just as much and many people think therapy is for a so called mentally ill people of crazy people. That is nonsense. Therapy doesn't mean something is wrong with you. It means that you recognise all humans have emotions. We need to learn how to control them, not just avoid them put in our heads in the sand, but our help is customized online therapy that offers videophone even live chat sessions with your therapist. You don't see any one on camera. If you dont want to you it's much more affordable than in person therapy and you can be matched with a therapist and under forty eight hours,

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Eat off the floor, but only that to my kid they have the proper equipment and knowledge to do the job right. Now we have more time and energy to do the things we actually love, plus there's something so satisfying about coming home to a professionally cleaned house. Sometimes you just need a brow pamper yourself by hiring a pro to clean every once in a while dang it good you ve, earned it use code Jordan to get a special deal on a first time cleaning when you sign up for cleaning and now for the conclusion of our episode with air. No converge wisdom, but by unconventional wisdom it does make sense, because nobody in- and I'm sure you won't take this personally to nobody- would have gone airline We gotta by stock in that guy, the guy Walkin run downtown Ella, who we think is buying drugs like. Where do I sign up to be in that guy in business within you know, and you what we see some of the same things you see yourself, we like these people just need a chance. The ideas, good thereof,

hard workers in these other spaces and that's really what it takes a lot of the time like there's something going on subconsciously, you're, calculating right, yeah and, and I would say for sure, and then they have any data. I noticed, show you in a spreadsheet, but I've made ten or fifteen investments in in start up companies, and, I would say the ones I've made by far in the crazy returns on open the ones led by first time. Entrepreneurs in that space on paper would have no experience and the ones where it like. I thought I was getting smarter and, like all disk It is a bad ass. He came from this company was a vp at this. In that he's got this amazing business plan in this board and also the fancy vessels. I lost all my money first so it's really tricky says no Reimer reason other than I find people and I like them- and I have one more than I've lost on paper, but the total dollars wise with random investments have lost on his for sure more just per investment, I've lost more than is usually from the expense operator, so be wary of those people who know what they're doing right yeah.

beware, the people that that seem like they know what they're doing, because maybe they like you said they know too much with you there Oh, my god! We have to get our food vendors down. It's like you focused on the food vendors. The experience sock nobody's by and take it for them event or something along those lines. Yeah. I know you invested impressed juice, real love that place I always wondered my wife ass, the Chagos, if, when you're an investor in something, do you just get free stuff at every look? I do you get a car that, like I gave this company a million dollars gimme some free Jews. You know what I think. One time they sent me some some do but other than that. No, I'm sure if I asked discount some stuff, but I'm never, that person that ass. I might I think the other day I bought a bottle of truck at whole foods because I didn't want to hit up Nick and Nick and aspirin other bottle of be annoying. you know I'm very introverted. So most people are like a shamelessly asked for free things, and I've never been that person. I think one time Saint Archer gave me some free beer. You know, but like I just never assure you could, but

No, not that guy we diverge on that. I am shamelessly like a oh you're buying ads on the show. Do we get product like you? Ve never had this product that everyone has on that you ve never had debates goes that you never had this before and there a diet coke. Before my look, if you're gonna, ads on the show. I need to try the product there. Like it's available nationwide and my cool here's, my head, you could be a good, into my yang, then casually will ask for things here and I are, and others hide behind my assistant like legislate, who decided to see what happens, they would shakes out the diamond company, you know what a diamond looks like right. Yeah, here's here's my address. You said that you should make yourself uncomfortable if you get to comfortable in business, curious. Why, like you, you hear that a lot from entrepreneurs you get a lot from business owners. I feel you on that, but I think a lot of folks like what's wrong, which is comfortably

making a ton of money out or understand. I would say it's when you get comfortable as when you start making a lot of money, as I say, you're, to lose the money you have when you stop innovating and making money go forward, Will your like Amazon's annual shareholder letter? He talks about day one right and he's a day to stasis right as soon as you will be. The second phase you stop treating it like your start up. You die. That's literally the methods that Jeff basis have been sending to investors. since its first year as a public company- and I didn't know that too much later my career and I and body that spirit. But as I learn I look around, I really believe in that cause. You have to feel like if someone to prove you have to try so hard and keep going and grinding the secular setting up and made it that's when you die right, as everyone goes in each luncheon like after the first complex gone, which seemingly was the most accomplished thing had ever done in my professional career in fifteen years I felt miserable not because the event was not successful, because I was so focused on what I had done wrong as master

History has that sounds. I think. That's important you know David Show is yeah yeah I desired asked yes, so I shall speak private ten years ago at some of it downtown LA and he shows up to the event and he's the guy that made five hundred million dollars cuz he painted Facebook's office and he traded them. repay my eight thousand dollars retraining for one percent of Facebook stock in and have been worth half a billion, and he talks about that experience and he's like he said ass soon ass. He got that money, any sort becoming really successful. Painter and everything is going well said. His creativity just fell off a cliff, MRS Guy, that's worth half a billion dollars. He moved back into his parents garage in a futon any talks about this and use it as soon as he did that and start to make himself feel uncomfortable again. His creativity in his career shot back up and it was like he literally forced himself as a as such worth, hundreds of millions of dollars to just go and live in his parents garage as an adult and without air conditioning- and I was like that's fucking- amazing RE, because that is the spirit you have to challenge yourself-

in that way- and I know it sounds really weird but like I truly believe that's the case- athletes Hey man. If you really want to be uncomfortable I'll hold that five hundred million dollars for you, you David, The five billion will be operative, whatever his comforts were at that share his like a pen us in Manhattan or whatever their multiple? At that point? in closing here, look how come you haven't lost? Your money alone people have not exceed early or in your position with no political business. Exe variants early on they go broke, they go, break our right. Now, I'm unstoppable next thing: Crap Unbroke! Now it's gone. I hear We hear that all the time you you dear people like that, all its games not over, yet I could still

It also sure don't don't count me out on that list because of a gambler. I would deathly put me in the list of people that are liable to lose all their money, betting on some crazy business ray, and I get more emboldened over time. As I've been successful, multiple things you feel some level of invincibility there's a certain ego, whether you realize you're, not that you think you can keep winning in in the odds. Are that you're not going to win right so for sure I've lost a ton of my wealth still doing fine, but I definitely continued to make money and lose money various different things. I also have lived a pretty inconsistent. A slight style, meaning you know, I know a lot of guys and like the street where and skate industry that is companies. It made a hundred million dollars in. I know one company that spent six hundred thousand dollars in bar tabs in one year meaning going up clubs buying alcohol. They thought you know they were. They were embodying the lifestyle of what the consumer thought they were doing the buying ferraris. Whatever

but you know people blown up. There knows who would ever like it has a lot of people have to spend it on just live. That wrapper lifestyle and having entourage, and things like that, like I'll, never be that guy. If I lose, I'm an elusive continuing to trying to push new business. I guess for now feel good if I lose it like that, I will feel good if I spend it on frivolous crap yeah, that's part of it. I think the other trees, is as far as the all these older guys- and I would not getting divorced- is also really good way to keep a lot more money. But now a network which is Cuvier see for the Youtube generation, is how I've heard you explain it tell a little bit about what this is because I saw this trending on Twitter and I was like why are all these people on Twitter upset that they can't buy a pair of air force ones? whatever it was. It was like a number one training thing on Twitter and I thought whoever owns

since then a lot issues today we had ninety thousand people attempting to buy that show that day, which is the Jeff staple, not yes, be pigeon dunk last January and crashed our platform cause a hundred and twenty million bucks lockdown sandwiches and try to get as well, but yet look post, complex com. I got introduced to a really prolific entrepreneurs and Jimmy. I been apple. Music beats by drain Skype records like one of the great legends and business and creativity and on him in his fund and partners, were working on, putting together a business that was trying to reach that key received from illegal Genji audience, and I going back to the idea were tongue earlier, challenging yourself make us up on culture. I done events for fifteen years and I was looking at what the next chapter my career so

so when you get offered a ride on a rocket ship. You say yes right, so I jumped on board with these guys and in beginning of twenty eight ten and start to build on this platform, which really is trying to reinvent, were Cuvier h us and was to my parents. Are grandparents audience home shopping television and bring it to this? mobile first, live streaming audience and in China live streaming. Video commerce is a hundred billion dollar plus business, and we think it has the ability to be that north america- and these are three things I don't know anything about- e commerce, content and building technology and going back to challenge you myself in alone, I stopped to be naive again, that's really what I was passionate about with assemble an amazing team, gotta hunter people that work here now I got an amazing team of investors and it says it's been quite a journey. The last two years building this new platform, that's challenging retail and entertainment. A lot of people might ask Why build a new platform? What about just going live on Instagram or to talk or facebook or all three? It seems like the easiest way to sort of get started. The best thing would be.

Simply taken audience. You already have regularity of followers their cell to them on a platform like instant. On the other hand, I would worry that Instagram is really crowded and you dont only audience you don't have their e mail addresses contact info. All you can do is like hope. The algorithm likes you that day and then sell stuff right exactly what you just said is the thesis which is going through an intermediary. I don't care if its Facebook, Instagram Tik Tok Youtube Snapchat, that's their audience day on the consumer data were writing it from them and even Their whole business model now is preventing you from reaching your again followers. They owe you have ten thousand people follow. You cool will show your message about. Five two thousand and we want to reach the rest of the people who want to follow. You pay us. We can build a business that has asset value right, so in a, why would Spotify start when Itunes exists? There is room for innovation. Why did zoom start when Skype and way backs existed, writers, there's room for innovation

is room for for building asset value and having our own relationship with our own customers, and I think it's much harder to do a we're doing but deplore eyes at the end of the rainbow is dramatically bigger than like. You know how many people were big on Myspace, Dennis your big on its remnant. Tiktok goes at this five more things coming that, even though they are yours, chasing someone else's horse were making our own thing and its more expensive. It's more time consuming and the rate of failures much higher. But if we do it, we could be a billion dollar company right. No questions asked. So this is a pure ideological thing in and I've seen other people try to be shopping platforms on Youtube on its agreement. That will be there, but I argue that we're gonna be bigger and I think what spot, if I did for audio streaming with Netflix did for video unconscious.

Streaming. We will do. We will be streaming equivalent for shopping, and I need that big of a paradigm shift that were looking to disrupt your in industry, you're willing to the app and they shone out. There are also you have a hundred percent mind share of that audience right. You have they will open that app and look for what you are selling versus opening the app and then you're in influence or a player in that space, and then I come along and unlike look, I'm showing or skin than you younger. So I got all the followers buying stuff from me now it's like now and if you build One thing: if I want to chase you MIKE instead of just assigning for an instagram account or Tik Tok account and doing it better or doing at different, I now have to assemble a team building that market the app the vendor I've to rebuild everything sea of a moat around you. That's a much larger thou allows you to keep your lead for longer, yeah and whenever the next Tik Tok is than the much change right will be asking to stand still and door.

one thing and that worried about what the rest, the market, all use those tools to speak to consumers for communication, but that's not where we can do business you're, not under the the algorithm that the whims of the algorithm or of big data like really to China. you that day in order for you to survive and also, if just run, looking to turn you off. We don't like them, because one of the guys who it was the founder of the company got accusative something yesterday's that we're just gonna like not show any of their stuff for the next month. Until that's cleared up this turn off your account and then you're dead in the water errand Thank you very much. Super interesting interview really good business ideas here. Some while I should say some good business, is some really dangerous business ideas that probably law really interesting conversation. Thank you so much awesome. Thank you man. I enjoyed it special thanks to hide you for sponsoring this episode of the Jordan Harbinger Show hide you isn't it.

Annabelle candy I've been a fan for decades, since I discovered in Japan, it originally was invented as a gum substitute in Japan, which is kind of like. Why would they substitute come, but apparently in Japan. I didn't notice, which explains a lot, but it's the impolite to remove food from your mouth in Japan will probably anywhere, but Japan especially hide shoe, was innovated. It's got a texture like gum, but you can swallowed it eventually. That's right, biting into a high tools, like inexperience, it'll, bring a smile on your face. Let me just say, with over two hundred unique flavors like Dragon Fruit, aside stuff, I had to google that I've never heard of they ve got specific flavour profiles like Valencia, Orange MRS Mandarin Orange. Apparently those are different. Don't ask me, and high too has a dual layer. Their specially patented flavour release technology sounds very fancy: a unique chewy texture. It's not a gummy, it's not a taffy, not too soft, not too hard single flavoured sticks or variety bags or perfect for stockings dovers. This holiday season,

air up to a whole lot more he's gotta hot sauce brand, which is awesome, scald trough it's the best selling hot sauce at whole. Foods is got troubles in it and the name yell, citizen, cannabis events, I mean this guy is, as you can tell them. Interview and as you can tell from his stories he's Currently, a man of many false I write he can't focus is out of the way that you might explain that, but he does such a good job of channeling? Is energy enough to get stuff down? It really is kind of the magic combination. The sky was wired to be an entrepreneur, links to everything here, will be on the website in the show. Not please use our website links if you buy anything from guests like their book, usually that help support the show worksheets for the EP, but again those around the shouts transcripts of the episodes always in the show nuts, I'm at Jordan, Harbinger on both Twitter and Instagram, hit me up on linked and if you wanna hit me up anywhere, I would love to get back to you and try to little. I'm teaching you connect of great people and manage relationships using systems and tiny habits over at our six minute. Networking course that is free. That's over at Jordan.

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Live what you listen and we'll see you next time we are about to embark upon a historical quest. This quest is going to take us back back and back and back again, then we will keep going and we will find out once and for all. If there ever was a golden eight, we will make Amerika great I'll get. When does the word again actually refer to when it was found, a silver, the slavery, so for this library? So well, it turns out depends on who you ask, I suppose some people probably romanticized the roaring twenty says on lifestyle, and that sounds fine. We like fun, Oh look at this headline always moving too fast too fast for health and too fast for thought. If only it seemed, we could go back.

Back to another time back before all this back to well back to when Wade was the golden age. What are the good old days? Could I find anytime any each time in history that everyone agreed. That was the good old days. Well, thou be pretty amazing, and if I couldn't well would that be a powerful argument against the nostalgia narratives we carry today and ultimately, what will it take to get backward? Looking people more excited about looking forward.