A "friend" who once admitted to having a crush on you came over to continue a night of drinking and crash on the couch. You pushed him away when he tried to kiss you because the crush isn't mutual and you have a boyfriend. Then you woke up in the middle of the night to him spooning, touching, and trying to make out with you. You pushed him away again and went back to sleep. Is this a form of sexual assault, or did you cheat by allowing yourself to get drunk and winding up in this situation? We'll try to find answers to this and more here on Feedback Friday!
And in case you didn't already know it, Jordan Harbinger (@JordanHarbinger) and Gabriel Mizrahi (@GabeMizrahi) banter and take your comments and questions for Feedback Friday right here every week! If you want us to answer your question, register your feedback, or tell your story on one of our upcoming weekly Feedback Friday episodes, drop us a line at email@example.com. Now let's dive in!
Full show notes and resources can be found here: jordanharbinger.com/621
On This Week's Feedback Friday, We Discuss:
- Were you sexually assaulted by the "friend" who kept trying to make out with you one drunken night, or did you cheat by allowing yourself to get drunk and winding up in this situation?
- You feel like the past two years of the pandemic have dulled your ability to converse smoothly with other human beings, and you worry this is damaging your relationships. What can you do to regain what used to come so naturally?
- Your young, sweet neighbor is a stay-at-home mom of four kids, and married to a teacher. She's also embroiled in an MLM scheme and you want to help her see a way out before her family's modest savings are emptied by shysters. What can you do?
- You've never gotten along with your snarky mother-in-law, and the tension has only increased since you gave birth to your son. On top of this, your husband takes her side in any disputes, and you're mentally exhausted by all of it. What should you do?
- You're an in-house art director for an advertising company, where people are so competitive and credit-hungry that stealing work is not uncommon. You've collaborated with partners who completely dismissed and gaslighted your contributions. How can you nip this behavior in the bud before you're actually driven to kill somebody at your office?
- Have any questions, comments, or stories you'd like to share with us? Drop us a line at firstname.lastname@example.org!
- Connect with Jordan on Twitter at @JordanHarbinger and Instagram at @jordanharbinger.
- Connect with Gabriel on Twitter at @GabeMizrahi.
Sign up for Six-Minute Networking -- our free networking and relationship development mini course -- at jordanharbinger.com/course!
This is an unofficial transcript meant for reference. Accuracy is not guaranteed.
I welcome the feedback Friday, I'm your host Jordan Harbinger. As always, I'm here with my feedback Friday producer, the guy met.
Talk to me from the sidelines of this advice: Pyramid Gabriel misery. Ah he and yet it was a cheer reference. So we're fans, you can email, your hot takes on the large areas, Monica beef to the Friday in vocs just now that we're definitely team Monica over here on the Jordan Harbinger show we decode the stories, secrets and skills of the world's most fascinating people and we turned their wisdom into practical advice.
but you can use to impact your own life
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to how these amazing people think and behave in our mission is to help you.
Come a better informed, more critical thinking.
much deeper understanding of how the world works and makes sense of what's really happening. Even
Inside your own mind if you're
new to the show on Fridays? We give advice to you answer listener questions. The rest
We have long form interviews and conversations with a variety of amazing folks from spies to see owes athletes, authors, thinkers and performers. In this week we had Danny
gold he's. A friend of mine is a journalist who gets himself into some of the most dangerous places on earth to get a story. I really enjoy his work. He'd seeming
He has no fear whatsoever. Also one.
The vault recorded a few years back Richard Clark, formerly national coordinator for security, infrastructure protection and counter terrorism for the United States. At all
then, how that one job we discussed how to filters.
knows from noise when it comes to warnings using something called the Cassandra
a coefficient, a matrix of cognitive, biased and other factors that influence the way we think and make
decisions so make sure you have to listen to everything that we created for you here this week, as always
get some amazing questions here in the feedback Friday inbox gave what's on. First, dear Jordan, again I have this one guy from
My life, who I've never had feelings for he had a crush on me. What
first met, but he knew I had a long distance boyfriend and my friends told me he eventually got over it one night, my group of friends and I go out to a bar and get very drunk most my friends take off and I'm stuck alone with the sky through
the night. He buys me drinks and shots, and eventually we decided at home. We live in the same neighborhood, so be authorised, ordered the uber. When we get to my house, he followed me inside I've had friends but the night of my couch or in my roommates room. When they were drunk before so this was it a big deal to me, we're both sitting on a couch waiting for the frozen pizza to come out of the oven when
He leaned over to kiss me after a second, I push him off and tell him no. I have a boyfriend it's hard to string together the exact sequence of events, but I think he tells me that he never got over a crush on me and I remember I started crying. He leans in again.
I guess me and I pushed him off again, and I say no, we shouldn't do this. I have a boyfriend, we, the pizza and then I decide to go to bed. He asks if you can crash in the bed with me and
I am obviously too drunk to really care, so I say sure, and then I fall asleep. I wake
in the middle of the night, to him, spooning me and touching me and starting to make out with me. I feel like it takes me. A couple minutes to really process what's happening, but I know for a fact that I push him off and I tell him to stop again and then I back asleep.
I do know that we did not have sex. I wake up in the morning and I feel very confused and hung over as if what just happened was a bad dream. Later that day, I talked
about what happened- and I tell him I felt used- he acted very hurt that I said that and told me that it was just a moment where we both fell, passionate towards each other and it wasn't a big deal a day or two go by, and I feel myself getting really angry about the situation. I decide to let my friend now that I feel, like you took advantage of me. He says he's very sorry about what happened, but again tells me that we were both just feeling passionate that night and claims that he was also very drunk, but I'm still angry at him and I feel gross, and I feel taken advantage of I'm considering telling my boyfriend would happen, but I'm afraid he'll be hurt and think that I wanted to stop and is this a form of sexual assault word? Did I cheat by allowing myself to get drunk and be in this situation and
My obligated to tell my boyfriend signed trying to assuage this vague rage, man. I am so sorry that this happened to you this evening. You had. It is awful,
violating its unsettling gross. I completely under.
Then the anger that you feel, and I also understand the confusion. Given the circumstances. It makes perfect sense, and I'm very sorry that you found yourself in this situation. We wanted an x
for an opinion on this story, so we reached out to the one and only Doktor, Erin, Margolis clinical psychologist and friend, of the show and Doktor Margolis right off the bat she said, and I
be that this was one hundred percent, an assault.
once you were at your house, you said no several times and he can
ten you'd making moves on you you
up in the middle of the night to this guy friggin spooning, you
and groping you. Yes, you let him
in your bed? Yes, you were both drinking, but if he's touch
new and kissing you and your literally saying no- and he just keeps going there
clearly violating so I'm with Doktor Margolis, I'm
if to hear that you guys didn't actually have sex but what he did its clearly an assault but the way to Skype,
bondage to you when you confronted him that
it's a whole other layer of grossness to this situation. You told him that he,
advantage of you and that he hurt you and his response was
oh that's nodded at all. We were just drunk and we're just both feeling so passionate that night, while
he's apologizing to you in the same breath. Now that is enough,
credibly, manipulative and honestly,
hey to use this term because, frankly, it's where we use these days, but this is very gas. Lady, this dude
gas lighting. You you,
owning your experience and saying this is what happened in this is how it made me feel any saying,
That's not what happened. I'm the one who's hurt when the proper response the proper response would have been. I was
I didn't listen to you. I should have listened to you, I'm here
If I am deeply sorry, instead he's just,
denying your experience and putting at least some of the onus on you right, which has just deeply uncool in an incredibly gross but ISIS
that part of the reason he's doing Jordan is that he knows you fucked up and he's probably freaking out right now, so he's trying to rewrite the narrative of what happened that night.
totally, is changing the story to make himself look better
if to avoid any consequences or maybe
just be able to live with himself more easily, but this is such a lame attempt our
just feeling so passionate about each other, like how does he know what you felt
only you know how you felt, I mean you forget start
riding at one point, I was that passionate, but does
make any sense to me, Doctor Margolis
she's zero did on this as well, and she said that in a situation like this, where you're assailant is gas lighting, you it's very important to not also gaslight yourself
is because your story isn't as severe as certain assault
He says you read about or see on television or the
conditions were slightly more ambiguous. That doesn't mean
that what happened wasn't as big a deal it is. It was, and I thought that was a really important point. So to answer your question: did you cheat
hell. No, nothing about this situation is cheating as doktor. Margo
was put it how many times,
you got drunk around other friends in this did not happen
those situations? You wouldn't wonder if you cheated the only.
prince on this occasion was this guy. Not you
you getting drunk and being friendly. That doesn't equate to you allowing this to happen. So I'd let go
that impulse to blame yourself. It's just not reflective of what went down and to be super clear here. The only
person to blame, for an assault is the assailant all that said, I am.
curious about what made it hard for you to draw boundary sooner in the evening and again, I want to be very
clear. I am not blaming you for what happened. I think it's pretty.
and clear where we stand and what happened that night, but listen
into your letter. There are several points in the evening or you could have said,
No indeed, you did a few times- could have drawn a line. Put this guy in his place
first, when he's ordering all those drinks them money orders the uber then, when he
allows you into your house without you inviting him in then what
kissing you on a couch after you said no twice, then, when he s
to crash in the bed with you and then
again when he tries to initiate and he's still sleeping in the bed. Now I understand that this guy's, a friend I am
stand. Ya'll were drunk, I get it, but there were several moments where you can
said hang on no, I don't want this, I don't.
what's happening here, get out. Please leave so. My question is what made it so hard for you to give this guide.
I am asking this not because you being agreeable caused this assault, but because
wondering if this might be a larger pattern in your relationships and maybe even in your life. Of course, it's possible that
or intuitive that this guy would get scary or threaten you or something. If you took a harder stance, but it's also possible that there's some p
a pleasing going on here, maybe
the desire to avoid conflict, a fear of disappoint,
in people or
sorting your own needs, and if that pattern
is operating in your life at a grander scale, and that is definitely worth exploring. That way. If you are
find yourself in an uncomfortable situation in the future, hopefully nothin like this, but life is full of uncomfortable situations, then you'll be able to
and a little more agency, a little more control and you can feel
empowered to say actually know this, isn't what I want. What I want is something different and if you're not gonna, respect that you need to go and do not feel
I sure, to go along with somebody else's agenda, especially somebody who clearly isn't a tune.
Your interests or your needs. That is such a good point. Jordan. I mean it sucks than she couldn't just let this friend crash at all
I was without worrying about what he would do, and yet she should be able to do that, but in a world where she can
and we're all kinds of things can happen. This story
is a great opportunity to look at how she operates in situations where her agency is challenged. Like this
he's telling your boyfriend what happened? That's a decision that you are going to have to make for yourself. We can tell you what to do. I dealey a partner would be very supportive in a situation like this. He would see how hurt you are, how distress you are and he would be
Therefore, you, but we don't know your partner, we don't know how it will react to something like this. He might be exactly where you hope, but he might also be angry. He might be hurt, he might have
located feelings about what went down. You're gonna have to prepare
for any reaction on his part and obviously we don't know what you're relationship is like, but Doktor Margolis did point out that your boyfriends response that will be very telling it'll say a lot about how we respond to you, how you guys handle challenges in your relationship when they do arise. So the question doctor Margolis asked was: does it feel better to live with the secret and accept that it might be something that you deal with apart from your boyfriend, or is it better to tell him and risk his response but to find out for sure whether you can lean on him in moments like this? I think the answer to that question will tell you what to do, but whatever you decide, Doktor Margolis his advice- and I do agree with her completely here- strongly consider going to therapy.
If you're not already their talk about what happened process, this experience, it would be great to have somebody who can help you through this decision regarding your boyfriend and maybe even mediate the conversation with him. If and when you're ready. You now gave
I wonder if part of the reason she doesn't want to tell her boyfriend is that she's feeling some shame about this situation, which I can totally understand, of course, but if that's the case, I would ask yourself if keeping this,
Grit is only creating more shame, cause Doktor Margo.
It was pointed out that the longer you keep something in the dark, the more the shame compounds and the harder it can
do it knowledge and move on from so you might
consider shining some light on this story with another person, but that doesn't
necessarily have to be your boyfriend. It could be a therapist. A good friend apparent someone close to you
Again, there is no right timeline, it's your call completely just thrown out there in case that's play a role and again, I'm so sorry,
whether this happened to you. I know it's sad and weird and very confusing, but I also think that unpack,
This experience use.
To learn more about yourself. It's also in
opportunity for you to get more in touch with your needs, your patterns, how you
wanna show up in difficult situations in on a more price
level, I would just stay away,
this guy from now on. This dude is not your friend
Thank you for sharing your story with us. I appreciate you and I hope you do ok we're sending you good thoughts. You know who won't spooning
you at least not without consent, the products and services that support the show we'll be right back
here listening to feedback Friday here on the Jordan Harbinger Show, will be right back this episode response.
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for listening and supporting the show your support of our advertisers keeps us going who doesn't love some good products and or services. You can all
his visit Jordan, harbinger dot com, slash deals for all the details on everybody that helps support the shell and now back to feed back Friday on the Jordan Harbinger Shell, all right. What's next, hey guys as we start to return back to normal after the start of the pandemic, I found it increasingly difficult to make conversation and small talk with colleagues, potential clients and even old friends. I feel that in the past two years, a piece of me as lost the art of conversation. This is especially frustrating because I've always been an extremely conversational. Engaging and friendly. Individual have also found that I'm not the only one who has been struggling with us. Do you have any tat
on how we can move past the struggle, so I can strengthen my relationships signed rusty, but gutsy. I hear you man, we ve actually been getting a lot of emails like this lately, so you're, not alone in this whatsoever. The
it news is you ve, always been super chatty engaging. You know how to talk to people. It's not like you. Ve always found it hard to chat, summon up the brake room or at a party, and just that that skill is rusty because of the pandemic
whatever you ve, been through these last two years, the isolation, the stress the life changes whatever it is. That's probably just created some heaviness and awkward
and that's covered over. This outgoing personality of yours, which is literally
every person on earth right now to some degree. So the best advice I can offer is this: don't try to overcome
insane or work too hard to be your old, friendly self. Make an effort sure put
herself to initiate conversation with people. Definitely, but don't feel like you need to invent some sort of false person.
to stand in for this quieter person that you are these days, you're much better.
Just doing the authentic thing, whatever that is so, for example, if your attitude
her party and you notice your being a little shy, I would literally turned to the person next to you and be like em.
Really, sorry, if I seem kind of stand tonight, it's weird, but ever since we came out of the lock down, I feel like I've lost
the ability to just like be a normal person and talk to people on all in my head about it. Do you feel that way to or my crazy and I'm willing to bet that with ninety
percent certainty most of these people
gonna, say. Ah me too,
course. He adds definitely me and my wife for the same way. Then you guys can just talk about that
He'll? Be binding over this mutual awkwardness and then you can steer the conversation to the next
big and before you know it you'll be chatting someone up at a party being
engaging friendly self that you used to be and by the way that approach it works in Social, said?
work settings networking chats even worse
silver email with a few tweaks point? Is you don't need to be
anything other than who you are right now. That's it
Maize in quality. Did you show up, as you are share a little bit
it was somebody else and let that openness build some report. In fact, people turn
bond much more strongly over those corks and vulnerabilities than they do over the superficial stuff I mean yeah, you could talk to your call
worker about the new doc
strange movie or be asked about the correct cups.
First, the brake room or whatever, but you'll, get deeper much
faster sharing a part of yourself that is more personal as
Is there willing to do the same and not everybody is and its fine, but if they are then you're off to the races to rather than trying to make up
or how you feel I would on it and
ere it in a way that is honest and playful and down to earth. My other piece of advice is to be patient with yourself and give yourself some time.
we're all finding our sea legs again, socially speaking, and even people who don't feel rusty
still dealing with some degree of awkwardness about being around other people. Trust me the guy, the power
you're the office who can acknowledge that who can make other people feel at ease. Vat is the guy that you wanna, be friends
So I'd find small ways every day to cut through the self consciousness to open up.
little more to other people. If you do that, I think you're gonna find it
His personality you're, looking for
been there all along not to go all wizard of OZ on you there. But it's true good luck. You can.
Just Friday at Jordan, harbinger dot com? Please keep your emails. Concise! Try to use a descriptive subject
fine. That makes our job easier. If there's some you're going through any big d c
in your wrestling with or if you just want a new perspective on life. Love work. What to do. If you relapsed after getting engaged whatever's got you stand,
nightly hit us up Friday,
Jordan harbinger dot com we're here to help and we keep every email anonymous
By the way we ve been getting a lot of questions lately about employment issues getting fired having to fire. Somebody had a manage complaints in the workplace. Stuff like that we'd love to take some of them
on here on the show, but we could really use some experts to consult for us. So if you are in,
I'm attorney or and H our special.
Or anything like that, and you be down to share some brief thoughts with us on listener,
from time to time anonymously or not. We'd love to hear from you hit us up Friday at
Jordan Harbinger dot com. This would really help us up our game in this department. All right. Next up, hello, Jordan and Gabe. I have a young sweet, neighbor who's, a devoted and kind stay at home, mom of four kids and her husband is a teacher. These are not wealthy people by any means they are lovely people. Well liked.
and well meaning. The problem is this: young mother has an instagram account where she not only shares charming photos of her family, but she also shares posts to sell and promote a large, essential oils company. I've read a lot about multi level, marketing companies and the ones you working for specifically- and I know for a fact that it's a pyramid scheme its rat
then, a deceptive package that tells us recruits that you can have it all. You can be a boss babe, and you can work part time at home. While still are
a full time salary, as I'm sure you're, both well aware,
the emblem is set up in such a way that its mathematically impossible to get ahead, nine,
nine point. Seven percent of quoting quote distributors, either break even nor blues money. You need to
family or friends or your network to be the customers plus the company's founder, has an extensive criminal background. My neighbour is
on a where of all this or she's just bought into the story, she's being fed by the organization. Seeing this young family get involved in something deceptive that will hurt them financially and could seriously damage the relationships is killing me, but I'm not close enough with either of them to talk about the myth, their buying hook, line and sinker. I feel like I've come off as that crazy neighbor, who just doesn't get it and makes this woman feel uncomfortable so dry intervene. Do I leave a copy of a book about the dangers of these Emma lambs on their door?
step anonymously. What should I do signed? The multi level vigilante woof yeah, I feel your pain watch and somebody get caught up in an email m p,
someone you're, not super close with it is brutal, it's so painful to watch evil.
We done your homework on Emma Lambs, multilevel marketing. You probably know this period
scheme better than she does she just block
thirdly, buying into the myth, which is exactly what these organizations want. So I totally get your impulse to save this woman for
the damage that this organisation will probably cause financially
emotionally relationships wise all of it. That said, I'm just
not sure. It's really your place to intervene.
This woman is your neighbor, if you,
We each other on Instagram, it's not like she's
best friend or even your good friend or like a mom cousin,
something whenever, like you said, you does not close it
with either of them to dismantle the con that their caught up in an you're right in all likelihood, they'd, probably dismiss you push back call you
later that's their favorite word right for people who cheat their speaking. What was the cause stinkin thinking? They call it that sometimes really corny stuff,
that's part of what these email lambs teach their members by the way is how to deal with people who you know don't want to see you
deed or are too afraid to believe in themselves. The way you do and all that bullshit they uses all the time. It's called a thought: terminating cliche, it's like only losers,
quit in only quitters lose it doesn't mean any
So much nonsense. It sounds clever its thought, terminating cliche. The idea is to get you to not think about what is going to happen next acre
lose all your money, because the math doesnt work and most people
but up enamel ends even the smart ones.
They have a lot of Vigo wrapped up in their involvement. If you ve spent
a few months and one of these companies, it becomes very threatening to question the validity of the business. The
tensions of their leaders, which our reply. I have a time our deified, like called leaders right. You can
even question your own results, or lack thereof. You don't wanna, be that person with egg on their face
lemon grass and frightened sense on their faces. The case may be, I don't know, I'm not an essential oils guy. Obviously you don't want
we'll dumb or gullible or admit that you ve lost a ton of time and money on an organization that was actually preying on you so either
this woman were willing to hear you out it's very possible. She would
even allow herself to really consider your arguments at all. Now, if you want
save this woman or try you're welcome to I'm not
thank you. Can't I'm just
that I'm not sure you even have an ethical obligation to end your chances are very slim. If you do decide to approach her, I would
very gentle about it. Your best bet is to ask very simple, very basic questions
not press your agenda too much alike. How's that
This is going on. Schedule must be nice. If you don't mind me asking, are you happy with the money you're making how much work do you have to put in
Long has it been now: are you seen good result, those kinds of questions
not all at once, obviously but organically spaced out giving
her time to respond and at least think about each one. The idea
here is to get her to supply the answers that point to the truth, which
but she's, probably not doing well at all, given that ninety seven or ninety, nine plus per cent of people and Emma lambs lose money. But you'll have to be very careful now
to judge her responses to not push. Her too
conclusion to quickly you don't want to be like well, so
only made three hundred bucks and she started last year. Does that sound like a good business to you? I would just listen
not along, be polite. Let her go
about her day. Think about what she told you so that some healthy scepticism condition
up in her mind on its own, then, the next time you talk you can ask,
question illicit another answer until one day. Hopefully, you ve built enough trust with her to say
actually. I've been thinking
What about what you ve shared of me, and I hope I am not being too nosey or pussy over here, but what you ve told me. It doesn't quite
unlike this Emma Lamb, is giving you what it promised. Are you feeling
similar. Do you have any doubts and again try not to judge her try not to push her just be it a safe space for her to talk until she's ready to rap?
her head around what you already know about this pyramid scheme, also before she read
clauses that she'll probably try to recruit.
Due to the Emma Lamb and she might mistake your interest in her for interest in her.
Oh I'm scam so just be prepared for that, but obviously there
Conversation could go very differently. She could lie
about how well she's doing she could climb up.
Or stone while you, because she doesn't want to deal with your questions and if that happens is back off
he needs to lose more money and goodwill and relationships before she's ready to go there and that's fine
she's on her own timeline. So that's my take she'll, eventually
yet their one way or another, they all do. I do like
the idea of leaving a book about Emma lambs on her doorstep. That is hilarious. The only thing she's probably
now that's you who left it and she might just Burnett the second. She sees the cover. If you do that, though,
just make sure she doesn't have a ring camera, something as otherwise you're in for some very awkward driveway interactions
So if you want to learn more about how to talk to somebody who's caught up in a scam, I highly recommend checking out the deep dive Gaban. I did on this exact topic. It's called how to avoid scams, but it'll give you a toy
of insight into the psychology of their targets, willing
It would, in the show knows it's actually, Jordan, harbinger dot com, slash three nine five, which is episode three. Ninety five but yeah you're, probably gonna, have to sit back Watch Box after box,
Reagan, juniper, burying cinnamon bark, get delivered to her door and just wait until she realizes that she has been taken its kind heartbreaking, but that's how it works when she's ready to talk, be there for her
and maybe you'll, be a part of her way out. Good luck, such a rough surgery,
don't. I know we all know that I'm a limbs are bullshit and essential oils, let's be honest, caught a dodgy, or at least the people who get super into them yet. But I have to say my friend actually just bought me and essential oils diffuser as a Christmas present, and it is amazing Blake I never
I would be into it, but I now turned on every morning. It's like it's actually really nice
Maybe you can join dough terror, Boethius oils and memory,
yeah yeah yeah, actually Irma Amorphous Boolooroo Canada. You seem like a sponge bob and leopard print leggings guy forty percent, Bulgaria, like five of them on at the same time, Renault in all,
There is a low, be careful what you put in those diffuses, because some of those oils, especially the lower quality ones, like you, get from a lot of these airlines, they are actually toxic when inhaled so just be careful what you put in there. I have read about that
very happy to say that my friend got me a super boozy one from like one of those boozy stores at them?
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won't drag you into a predatory relationship designed to rob you of your precious time and money most of the maize.
Cancer is prepared to help support Joe we'll be right back
is the Jordan Harbinger Show, and this is Feedback Friday, we'll be right back this episode of sponsored in part by,
Happier podcast with Gretchen Reuben she's been on the show before in his life
brilliant writer, Gretchen you're with us here today,
and you had episode two hundred and six? What's the best resolution
you ve ever made in that's. That's a bold statement. Tell us a little more about that episode. Yeah. You know
I do the show with my sister and Co Host Elizabeth Craft, and you know we talked a lot about the ideas that we tried, but sometimes we throw ideas at our audience and say you know, tell us your answers. So we ask a question: what's the best resolution you've ever met
and because I think we can all learn from each other, and it was absolutely
fascinating to talk through which Europe
the resolution to quit, sugar was your best resolution to start a book group was your best resolution to spend more time in nature. You really gotta
of all the things that people were trying and what we say
after that episode came out, was that more than people got ideas from each other, and so it's a great way to get the conversation going and, as you are talking about how to get people inspired to aim
I have a bigger life and, of course, will linked to this episode in the show notes and you can find happier with Gretchen Reuben anywhere you get your podcast thanks, Gretchen! Thank you. This episode is also sponsored by progressive. What's want
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conclusion of feedback Friday. What's next high Jordan again
my husband and I have been married for seven years we ve been together for ten. We have an almost three year old daughter together over all our marriage is great, but
at my husband's mother- and I do not get along the problems between his mother and me- have existed for the majority of our relationship, but it got really unbearable after we had our sun when we
there. We were pregnant. Her reaction was oh. I had almost given up on having grandkids cheese.
progressive, much likes take the gun is mom. I don't get it is. She makes snark comments to me and has told my husband that she feels like I've stolen, quoting quote her baby boy, meaning him. I struggled with severe postpone depression and the lack of help from her her insistence that we always bring our son to her, even though she lives ten minutes away and her accusations that we were keeping him from her, despite the fact that she is always welcome in our house
that was the straw that broke the camel's back? She also smokes in her house and as a first time, mother, I was uncomfortable letting our newborn around that when she held him if he was crying or he was hungry, she would refuse to give him back to me and my husband would have to take him from her. What makes this harder is that my husband often takes her side, and he tells me that his mother and I just need to work it out and get over it. I've stopped going to events that she's attending, including holidays, because its miserable you can cut the tension with a knife. My husband says that she's my family and I need to involve myself with her, but I disagree. I cannot stand being around this woman, she's, truly miserable and
exhausted, so what do I do signed battling the drums with my husband's moms another week, another crazy mother in law story. Again these stories they just blow my mind, merging families is hard enough, but doing it when your husband's mom is a narcissist who literally doesn't care about anyone but herself and who actually thinks and sets out loud, apparently without realizing. It sounds completely insane that you ve stolen her baby boy. That is bonkers. I
so sorry, you're dealing with us. It sucks and no one deserves this kind of relationship, but here's the thing
about your mother in law. She is who she is she. Finally, what sixty? Seventy years old you guys have been together for ten.
Years, you ve, given her a grandson, she's still being addict. You
lady in changing I'm guessing
were kind to her. I'm guessing you ve put in the work to be her friend and she just isn't responding. I mean, if
who are reinforcing this dynamic? If you treat her the same way that she treats you if you haven't tried
talk to her about any of this or change the relationship. Somehow that I would say you know, look at that see if you can find a way.
through to find a way to talk, this out hit the reset button, but I'm getting
sense from your letter that darling
in over here isn't exactly open to working on herself if she
We believe that you stole her son from her. I just don't see that changing. I hope she does and if you ever get this
So you can talk to her about any of this. I would give it a shot, but I dont have
I hoped for that, but the person we really have to talk about is your husband. He is plain
a huge role in all of this gave this husbands thy.
With his mother is fascinating. Usually
it's his mom side against his wife, even though it seems pretty
that his mom is the problem. He insists that she
was his mom time and energy, which ok, but maybe up to a point. I understand you still have to be civil. You still have to do the baron
but to be more involved with his mom when she treats are poorly and acts crazy. It now
agree. I don't think you
his mother more than just basic decency and time with her grandson. At this point I mean the husband is he's,
literally the person who has to take their son
from his moms arms when his cry, because she won't given to the wife he also literally, is caught
between these two women he's trying to
keep things on an even keel, but at the end of it
he's on team Darlene, not
to his wife, not helpful with his mother. Ultimately- and you know it says a lot about
old Darlene parenting that
still very much in his moms orbit, even as a supposedly grown ass man,
there is a lot going on in our relationship. Look, we don't know your husband, I know you're the one writing and we only know the basic facts about your mother in law here, but it sounds like there is something very old and very toxic going on between the two of them. Your husband,
he has not just been charitable to his mother. He doesn't have a soft spot for her he's, not just trying to play peacemaker. He is in her court. It doesn't sound like there's any room for him to consider if his mom is in the wrong here because
that would invite the possibility that he would have to disagree with her and that's probably very scary, to him- it's probably scary to him, because it so scary to her, because
your husband, I'm guessing, he knows the.
broken rules of his relationship with mom, and the rules are basically I'm right. Everyone else's wrong. I don't have to change only my feelings matter, if
Do what I say: you're the asshole and what's craziest me up
any woman who falls in love with my son, is actually taking him away from me because my job
the actual exist to be mine and deprive me up and to do what I want. I mean: do Jordan, just imagine having that as your mom growing up just the emotional impact of that kind of parenting.
I mean we ve talked about this on the show, before being the child of capital and narcissist or or even just somebody, who's, narcissistic and, in this case, clearly enmeshed with her son. That is very damaging and, among other things, it produces a child like this, a guy who's afraid to appropriately stand up to his.
Mother has very difficult and at times crazy, mother, and it was now compromising his relationship with his wife as a result. Well, yeah. I think you nails
the woman writing in she's, not just
against her mother in law, she's up against her huh
Vince Dynamic with his mother in law, and that is hard. If there is.
Any hope of things changing with the mom. It's probably going to be with her husband's help. Yes, exactly so, my advice is to talk to your husband. Like really talk to your husband, I would share with him all of the ways,
You feel that your relationship with your mother in laws problematic the impact, her behaviour
has had on you. He might not even fully appreciate that and also how his stance with his bomb is affecting your relationship, the one between the two of you. I would also, if you can try to help him see and you're gonna have to be very gentle about those because, like George said, it's very charge. Territory hopefully help him see how he's actually enabling as mother reinforcing
dynamic with our by not standing up to her by not standing up for you and now making it harder for you to be treated fairly, and this
I take a while. It might be several conversations over a long period of time and might be hard for your husband to see the ways in which he's been colluding with mom and I'm guessing, probably husband for years, but it is worth doing because
even if Darlene over here doesn't end up changing this conversation will bring you guys closer together and it will make your relationship more honest and it will help you
the less alone in this situation, which is even if you only get that out of it battle, make conversation worth two. If, of course, your husband is willing to listen and appreciate your point of view, which I really hope
right and if he's not at first, I think you can get em they're just make it clear that this really matters to you and if you guys struggle to make progress, I would definitely encourage you to consider couples counselling, there's a lot more
both of you to unpack here, and it might be hard to do that when you're both inside the situation. I also think your husband would bear.
if it from individual therapy. Just given the child
that he had, but that's his joys, that's a separate thing, so I hope you get to do that start. Talking, start listening, work with
husband to find some new solutions, hopefully enlist his help,
making things better with your mother in law. I don't envy,
their situation. This is really tough. It's possible that the right answer
me to give up and only interact with this woman when it's just totally necessary like when she pangs out with your son but like I said, the real
Opportunity here isn't with her it's with your husband, so good luck,
wishing you all the best our right. What's next air Jordan Gabe, I'm an in house are director with an advertising background where people are so competitive and credit, Hungary that stealing work is not uncommon. I've had colleagues take credit for my idea publicly and meetings and privately and conversations with me. I will side colleagues who were supposed to present work to a client that was done as a team but who instead emphasised their own contributions. I spoke out about this once in a one on one situation when it turned out my copy writing partner. Didn't think that we collaborated on the campaign idea. We joked about how short and selective human memory can be and agreed to disagree. He was dismissive totally gas lighting and by just let it go, I realise that sometimes it does make sense to keep the bigger picture and mind and let other people take the credit like your show, guest MIKE Abraham advises, but I'm not talking about those situations.
Is there a tactful way to stop this behaviour? The moment it happens, or is it better to have a private conversation with a colleague later, or am I in the wrong here signed claim? What's mine or nickel and dime? Ah, there's nothing more infuriating than doing great work and then having friggin max your copy writing partner? Conveniently
forget that you guys tag team
the campaign when he sees a chance to shine all by himself, its total
and it soon
four demoralising and I totally
why you're worked up about this. It's a great question. So, let's dig into it. The thing is gave an. I haven't exactly been
corporate environment for a while. If you can't tell by my lack of pants, we reached
to the amazing Alyssa cone. Alyssa is a startup coach investor and author of the book from start up
the grown up which will link, it shows she's. All
small around boss when it comes to handling tough situations at work, the first thing Alyssa said was that yes, she
Greece that at times it is helpful to let others take the credit, but that has
what to do with showcasing goodwill and unity in a collaborative environment. This environment
you're describing gotta sounds like
the opposite, so illicit
three scenarios and strategies that should help you get control over this situation,
scenario number one, is when somebody steals your credit in public,
either in a meeting or over email. When somebody talks about the work you did like its there's a
to recommend timing in to thank them for bringing up the pitch or the campaign appreciate.
what they say as a complement to you in your work and note
Some of the details that demonstrate how much intimate knowledge you have of the work. That'll already speak volumes by itself
illicit, also said it's a nice touch to call out other people on the team who helped you get it done,
the way to model good behaviour and also, of course, to get their support, elicits advice here, is to adopt a plan.
tone and say something like thanks to your comments on this. We are.
Loved working on it. As a team, when the Clyde gave us all
a confusing brief. We were scratching our heads, but it
really Angie, who conceived of the central concept when I framed it up on,
age and added that twist, you like, I sought
it was right and the rest just fell right into place from there are. You know, whatever specific are by them
I really love that detail about calling other people out. While you claim credit yourself cause party or job here is to correct the bad behaviour
but also show your colleagues that there is a very different way of operating that this is
a zero sum game, so I think it's a super
our idea, analysis, part and see. This is why we consult with her. You see what I did. There are Alyssa second strategy,
is to find an ally in the office. A solid colleague you can buddy up with assuming theirs.
Some one you can actually trust over there. Maybe it's one pickings, but if there is an there's usual
At least one good ag in every office make that purse
your ally by creating an agreement, they'll call out the
you're doing and hype you up when you're, not in the room and you'll do the same for them. When your ally is constant,
talking about your great work. Your contributions to certain projects, it will become a lot harder for other people to steal the credit, not only
that people will hear about you and your brilliant over and over again, they may even talk about it with one another and that'll create even
or cachet for you, as it was a puts it when you
have more cachet. You also get more status and more status makes it even harder for someone to steal credit for your work without consequences, but it might
will happen, and so the final insight Ellis had was that in a workplace like yours, sometimes
it to get a little bit more aggressive. If you try all of this, and it still doesn't work, you might have to signal to the credit thief that you're just not going to stand for it always advice set up some time to talk to the person, then get very
very calm. Nothing good will come from you losing your temper when you sit down. You can say something like MAX in these three instances. You took credit for my work. I don't appreciate,
doing that. I need you to know that if you do it again, I will set the record straight sadist, none
confrontational, but with a tone of authority, then if man
poles, this shit again, you can call me
up in the moment like MAX. We had this conversation already. I don't appreciate you claiming you worked on this by yourself. It was my concept in it
three other people in this meeting, but a massive part in all of this. Sarah Ben MO. They do amazing work
I don't mean to get on my high horse here, but I think it's very important that we recognise the co ownership of this project and this great outcome. Something like that.
obviously like a last resort. If you ve tried the other things now,
Do this for sure, stop MAX the credit thief hard to say, but it's worth a shot Ellis appointed
at least you know you did all you could to fix the problem and you'll have a clue.
Her sense of your environment and if that doesn't change things Alyssa that it might just be
The dust off the all resume and find a place where
you and your contributions will be valued itself.
you're doing amazing work, I mean it's gotta be if people are frigate stealing the credit for right. So I'm sure
A ton of other companies would love to have an hour.
erector, like you, so good luck out. There
We will also linked to elicit book in her podcast from start up to grown up in the shadows, along with her five scripts for delicate conversations
pdf highly recommend all that stuff special. If you have an issues at work, hobby
on that. I want to thank everyone who wrote in this. We can, of course, everyone who listened. Thank you. So much go back and check out Danny.
old and Richard Clark, if you haven't. Yet, if you want to know how many to book all these amazing folks on the show it's because of my network and I'm teaching you how to use the same software systems and tiny habits that I use every day. It's our six minute networking course and the course is free over on the think if it platform
just go to Jordan, harbinger dot, com swash course, it'll
encourage others to create a professional and personal relationship with you. It system. I
It's not a lot of work and not a lot of effort on the daily teach me. How to dig that well before you get
Firstly, a link to the showed us for the episode can be found at Jordan, Harbinger, dotcom transcripts or in the show nuts I'm at Joe
Harbinger on Twitter and Instagram, or you can connect with me on linked in you can find gave on Twitter at Gabe, Ms Raw. He
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if you're, looking for another episode of the Jordan Harbinger, show to sync your teeth into here's, a trailer for another episode that I think you might enjoy. I picked up stating at the tail end of its first boom in the seventies,
That was the trend, and then, when I discovered the possibilities- and I literally saw people flying out of empty swimming pools, TAT was my wild moment. There was like a danger factor. There was edgy factor and I just voted myself to it. I wonder how to fly for guys, who considered yourselves nerds an outcast Europe
data. That is the defining moment. If you wanted do the seriously or continued
It is the moment you get her one of my worst injuries in the beginning was I got a concussion, not my teeth out. I knew when I woke up and approach of escape part that I want to get back out there do it. I can't believe people still recognize me.
Gimme that I get recognized for skating. Cosette was never something there was a girl. There was never something that was then
when I was younger. The most famous skaters, when I stood skating, were only known to a very small group of state borders. They were,
escape magazines. There were defiling not on
They were considered sports stars. I still feel strange that I get recognized. You know it's where's gibbering. Now some people get into it to be richer. Famine
When I got into it, neither one of those things was even possible.
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Transcript generated on 2022-02-24.