« The Jordan Harbinger Show

628: Amanda Montell | Cultish: The Language of Fanaticism

2022-02-22 | 🔗

Amanda Montell (@amandamontell) is a language scholar and author of critically acclaimed Wordslut: A Feminist Guide to Taking Back the English Language. Her latest book is Cultish: The Language of Fanaticism, which explores how cults co-opt the words we use in order to control us and affect our behavior.

What We Discuss with Amanda Montell:
  • How the uncertainty of current times drives people toward the solace of community ā€” and the sights of aspiring cult leaders and con artists.
  • What personal experience drew Amanda, a language scholar, to explore how language is one of the most powerful tools of manipulation cults use to exploit their victims?
  • What thought-terminating cliches are and why they're so effective at shaping behavior.
  • How MLMs operate like cults and who they predominately target with empty promises of wealth and prestige.
  • How to tell if your language is being taken over by cultish manipulators.
  • And much more...

Full show notes and resources can be found here: jordanharbinger.com/628

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This is an unofficial transcript meant for reference. Accuracy is not guaranteed.
Coming up next on the Jordan Harbinger Show back in the good old days of color, you kind of had to have the charisma and just the organizational skills to get a bunch people in the same room to get up on a pulpit and preach at them for a few hours to compel them to keep coming back. I r l now especially with the power, demagogy in speaking of like the perfect conditions for a call, its orally possible much to meet in person, but what's also making this time so called issues that you no longer have to be able to manipulate and individual standing in front of you. You just have to be able to manipulate an algorithm and that's a whole lot easier to do Welcome to the show, I'm Jordan Harbinger on the Jordan Harbinger, show we decode the stories, secrets and skills of the world's most fascinating people we have high. Signal, low noise conversations with astronauts and entrepreneurs, spies and psychologists, even the occasional mafia force or national security adviser or rocket scientist in each episode
our guests, wisdom into practical advice that you can use to build a deeper understanding of how the world works and become a better critical thinker. If your new to the show you wanna tell your friends about the shown and love it when you do that, we ve got our episode, starter packs. These are collections of top episodes. Organised by topic new lesters can find out what we do here on the show just visit, Jordan, harbinger dot com, slash start to get started or, of course, to health. Somebody else get started and those playlists are all. available on Spotify today, ya know and of exposing called scams, manipulative organizations in the way that they operate today. Episode is no exception. Amanda, until author of cultivation joins us, discuss how cults co opt the words we use in order to control us and affect our behaviour, local,
I am alarmed scams, Q and a scientifically and all the usual suspects for with a focus on how these groups use language to confuse and control and what we can do to protect ourselves and those we love from the undue influence of these creepy college organizations are just dinner when I refer to M L em here on the episode I mean: multilevel marketing organizations like herbal life and no terror and others that I think, are toxic and scare me and also for society and, of course, very cold like if you're, what, bring how I managed to book all these great authors, thinkers and creators every single week, it's because of my network and I'm teaching you how to build your network for free over an hour its minute networking course at Jordan, Harbinger got com, slash course the course is but improving and networking skills your connection skills and firing others to develop a personal and professional relationship with you. It'll also you're, better network or a better connector, and if better thinker and its decidedly not called that's Jordan, heart
endured dot com, slash, coarse and most of the Gatt You here on the show, subscribe and contribute to the course so come join us you'll, be smart, anyway. You belong now here's a land of a so. Why are people so obsessed with cults? I can't help it be a little bit obsession God's, whether its multilevel marketing or scientology or some regions, whereas the ocean, Roger niece Netflix. Guys. I want to see all of that stuff and listen to all those podcast in even the many of them are the same kind of can't get enough in its weird, because I dont really care I've ever been in one. I don't know anyone outside of people the to be on the show that have been in one and yet I can't help but rubberneck. What's going on here I would just claim that we're all bunch of twisted voyeurs who get off on darkness and tragedy, but I think you named it it's partially rubber nagging. We can endure fighter flight just sitting where we are reading a headline or watching a documentary, and I think on.
level, when we binge call documentary after call Documentary and every time, I tell myself that, like I've seen enough and I'm sick of talking about this of another, or video, whether it's just like overzealous Taylor, Swift stands will just like suck me in anything and we binge that content or on level scanning for threats to determine whether or not this group this a tree is direct danger to us and then be very quickly as a cell protective mechanism tell ourselves like. No, I would never fall for something like that. I'm too skeptical, I'm too confident. I have too strong a sense of self over unto well educated? But the fact of the matter is that, we might not all fall for the same type of kurdish influence, but these techniques of manipulation really spare no one I kind of understanding that I have seen in the past, and I was in my twenties. I was really into like certain self help and dates.
Stuff- and I saw it, get cruelty and I stayed a little bit away from it. But then, when I look back now, it is forty, unlike ok did, did my toes a little bit into those waters like I stayed away from the Tool called stuff, but I was real it was still in the room with the people would like run to the front to upgrade to the advance programme, and I, like I, don't know but I'm not into this in later, I'm like, oh, because it was psycho and not really helpful and totally weird. That's why and I look at the things or like these cells held calls have all these grown people crying about their childhood wounds, even though its like day two in the afternoon and your hugging. Fifty year old Man whose crying like a child, your lap and like I don't really care. but my finger on it, but something is not quite right about this business develop its really leadership, training or whenever I get suckered and totally, but I think it says so much about how badly human beings want to connect with one another and want to engage in sort of culture, rituals, linguistic and otherwise, because especially
It comes the language which is the topic of my book, like we are so willing to do that. Chance, like we're, so willing to do that call in response. We are so willing to pick up on that exclusive terminology because it just feels good to belong. but I, like you, I have a track record of like dropping out of slightly call dish, groups and communities, and clubs like I was a theatre kid in my childhood, and I had this habit of dropping out of like Peter, communities, because everybody was just too damn colchi and everybody liked warship Peter, teacher and just everybody wearing black and constantly singing Arend. I was like a key item, but it's not funny cause it's as far as colds go, so but harmless to really like teacher, who is just a passionate guy and makes like probably not enough money than we had with the amount of crappy. What's up with their well debatable.
baseball, because I mean who would be more vulnerable to call dish influence than leg. A young miss spit kid who also kind of things may be. They could be famous that suddenly birds that take advantage of yeah? That's a good point. You dont think of high school theatre teacher as a dangerous predator, and most of them are to be fair, but you're right, it's kind of like what do you call it like it's second unexplored so, if you're looking for a call, maybe really what you want to be his eyes, go a theatre, teacher feeder, kids the communities that is called a shop that I plan to cover on my ipod casts some time in the future, because I am very interested in the sort of niece groups that you might not all agree. Are a full blown colds on the level of Scientology Scientology is another group that definitely recruits theatre, kids and aspire actors, but we can all lease agree, our call dish giving people
especially young people, now are looking more for meaning, I guess maybe spirituality, but also its meaning and not getting it through regular faith, because you see people leave church and things like that. But instead maybe they like go to solve cycle. One day in, like ten filling, woe filling a need that I have that maybe even know I had. totally. While I think that meaning purpose ritual, Community, these are profoundly human drives that have existed since the earth. yes, tormented. You know even The humans would gather with their tribes in circles and engage in group song and group dance, even though there was no adaptive or survival benefited just felt good. It felt profoundly human and I think, Right now is an interesting. We call this time because our sources of meaning and connection and community are changing. So increasing, A young people in particular are losing trust in these traditional sites, spirituality, like our churches, are synagogue that we may be grew up in were also losing track.
Then larger institutions like the government, the healthcare system, but worse craving those things and want to fill those boys, and so we look to alternative groups. Scholars at the harbor Divinity School, for example, have done studies finding that groups like so cycle and cross fit are some of the sites that are filling this truly religious, craving or spiritual craving that continue to have. These are sort of like secular forms of religion. That sounds like an oxymoron, but I think it really can exist. Wellness space is so many You haven't spaces are serving this spirit one community role in people's lives and not all of them are destructive, but some them are, and it's really like. The wild west in terms of competition is particularly with social media yeah, we'll get into a little bit of that and a bit here. But I think cults into arise. During times People are maybe a little bit lost, or at least they arise in people's lives. But right now look a lot of people. You looking for a savior, we have q and on which is like being a sort of Dumbest
but also largest example. That recently, where people believe completely ridiculous was things and those, keep evolving, and if there is not even one doctrine, but it also like. No world. Isn't this big chaotic mess that I can't make sense of it's all a secret plan and I'm in on it? But everybody else is not so actually I'm the important one. That's doing well, and all these other people who looked like they were beating me in life are actually just sheep. Yes, exactly so special lay during times of socio political turbulence, larger cultural tumult. We crave answers and cool who's, your and comfort, and there plenty of mega lament. Echo gurus in then, and online, especially online nowadays, who are willing to take advantage of those cravings q and on his trick it because we tend think of it is like this community of Magua brows and like their parents, basements following the queue drops, but as time
has gone on. She went on, has really come to encapsulate. Every breath if conspiratorial thinking that exists nowadays, it's like this spider web of Cuban on denominations. So, even if your I'm willing to get on board with pizza. ideas or the Global Hollywood, a leads like sex trade, the king, children or whatever. You might on board with antibiotics rhetoric that could serve as an on ramp to the more extreme stuff. But yeah I mean it's an sing, because another spike in cultural turbulence was during the Sixtys and Seventys. When we saw the emergence of so many new religious movements, but more politically correct term for calls like everything from Scientology, too, you know juice through Jesus. What stiffer, Now is that were seeing similar tumult, but the
the internet has made it such that there is now for better or for worse a cold for everyone. You back in the good old days of color, like you kind of had to have the charisma and just the organizational skills to get a bunch, people in the same room to get up on a pulpit and preach at them for a few hours to compel them to keep coming back. I r l now especially with the pandemic and in speaking of like the perfect conditions, for a call it I really possible as much to meet in person, but what's also making this time so alt issues that you no longer have to be able to manipulate and individual standing in front of you. You just have to be able to manipulate an algorithm and that's a whole lot easier to do here. We ve seen some of you mentioned in the book TEAL Swan whose, like this very had even describe her a bizarre o influence her that in ways, maybe or maybe not allegedly convinces some people to just kill themselves, because it's better that way and she is like knots
buddy that I would follow, because I just immediately cringing sort of I'm not interested at all, and somebody like that, but I can see the allure for somebody like that she's almost siren totally right, so she has a sort of like divinely, feminine energy. She is someone I would classify as a spiritual the influence or a new age influencers these people or a dime a dozen now on, but she got her start a little bit earlier, YO, ten or twelve years ago, and she would explain you know ass. He oh marketing and oak other clever internet marketing tactics in order to capitalize on the lonely, googling of people struggling with their mental health, and she would create these videos where she would combine the language of the D. S M me: no real mental health diagnoses like borderline residing with spiritual language, talk of frequent he's in vibrations in the acacia records, and what this vernacular would do it you have suggested she's top,
into power higher than science, that she has a sort of prophetic power, and by aligning with her whether you're watching her videos casually or signing up for her exclusive teal tribe or following her, you know one of her retreat. In the wilderness. You can gain access to that transcendent wisdom and Definitely her delivery and her look create this charisma that really seem to resonate and continues to develop Freeze seem to have less cruelty behaviour, and I'm gonna actually take a little bit of exceptions with that, because I feel like if we count. Em alarms is called that- maybe that's not true at all, but if we just talk about spiritual calls, developed countries tend to have less the behaviour of the United States is definitely an exceptional. Why so we tend pattern where countries that have higher standards of living longer life expectancy is higher education levels. Tender just have fewer believers, in religions traditional and alternative, but the? U S is a glaring exception, as
mentioned, where we do have those comparatively high standards of living, and yet there are so many religious people here, people who believe in all kinds of spirituality, traditional and otherwise one of the potential answers for this. Your explanations for this is that, in places like Scandinavia,. in Japan. Obviously, these countries have their own problems, but there are the social safety nets in place such that if a person loses their job or becomes very ill, there will be institutional support to catch them when they fall, so that they don't dire, become destitute rent and we don't have as many of those things here in the United States and so that combined with our culture of in visualize and leaves people feeling pretty ex essentially high and dry unmoored a hum, and so they look to these alternative groups in order to find that support and again some of them are mostly harmlessness Some of them are profoundly unethical, but there seems to be the pattern: drought, our culture. I know you're in
in part you're interested in calls, because your dad had joined one and you did you go go in one. Is that it my internet, in that correctly in a way grew up around one. I don't know how you would phrase it ok, so I guess My argument is that were all a member of something called dish to some degree. I was in the cult of my real community theatre, I'm certainly now. The cult of Instagram I lost I phone and didn't get another one relic a week, and I was in true withdrawal purely because I can log into Instagram, so my dad was forced to join a cold when he was fourteen. Ok, yeah. His dad was cargo in communist. He considered himself and intellectual, and here was ninety- sixty nine he wanted and on the blossom encounter cultural movement. Any heard of this group called sin and on which started as an alternative drug rehabilitation centre for hard drug users and then grew to accommodate, so called lifestyles or people
who were interested in sorted this. He socialist utopian way of life, and so my dad adds dad and my dad's new stepmother force dad and his Doolittle tolerate half sisters to move on to this compound the Bay area where kids lived separate from their pay. and send weren't allowed to go to outside school and at a point, everyone shaped their heads and everybody. You know dressed in his very conformist style and my dad had up until that point grown up in Manhattan, school of hard knocks in poverty in New York City, and he took look around in you is like this is called. This looks like a called and sorrow he said blue under the radar. He broke the rules and hitched to ride into San Francisco every day to go to and outside school graduated from high school by the skin, of his teeth gotten to Berkeley, and now he's a neuroscientist, so he whom we worked out nouvel produce doing just fine, but but he always I if I throw my entire childhood as Anti Group views.
Obviously like pretty triggered by grew Gavin starting in the communists and then go into account. It's like you know what I've had enough of organizations totally. He still Interestingly thought it was important for me to have like a spiritual reference point. So I was raised in like a very, very reform. Jewish synagogues. Just I guess costs community is still important. I don't know- and this is the thing we can think of these things in such a binary fashion. It's like Coulter Nautical, it's a more nuanced, but anyway, I grew up on my dad stories of sin and on end the conformance. Will you and all the while rituals that went on there. For example, every night every one incident on had to participate in an activity called the game, which was this extreme truth telling event, when people would gather around and creepy? Oh yeah, the previous, and this same? thing is done in a lot of groups from Jones, and all the way to on Amazon, collective amazon? If you well, we can talk about that more later, but view gather around
circle, and you basically have to subject yourself to vicious personal criticism by your peer, like North Korea style, but I'm not expert in North Korea but yeah yeah, sure Anna. So you would like to single out you know someone in the circle and you would be like: hey Jordan, you son of a bitch, like you so lazy. I see you like moping around, like don't you know how lucky you are to be here. You better get your shit together, and there was all of this like special terminology that they use in sin on to create that sense of solidarity into shut down independent thinking. There was this phrase act as if that was this here. It is that, if someone wanted to question one of the leader, Chuck deed riches, rules or protocols, you just tell them act as if which meant act as if you believe in this. Until you do is eventually you bill, and so I was really fascinated to hear about all of this terminology and not kind of planted the seed of my fascination with Colson, kurdish language
the language is so crucial to the existence of a colony. You write about this. This is the focus of the book, but language obscures true it enhances bias, and you know you can really tell when somebody is in some sort of quality thing, because it's almost like they can know your talk without using that language have ever heard. I had a couple friend mine and they were obsessed with landmark at the time. In would argue about things that I'm just like. What are you talking about you're trying to take me wrong about making you wrong and now you're on this debt of the ETA Mike is english is even going on yeah. I asked my friend like Robbie. What are you talking about with Alison he's like we a landmark and so like being wrong is its enemies explaining all this stuff I might put it. just as meaningless as anything else, because now you're done
arguing over semantic definitions instead of the problem that you guys we're having and he's like yeah, it's not very helpful totally. I mean one of the things that call dish rhetoric. You know these special buzzwords and labels ties. Is it sort of its not saying anything that can be said in plain English, it has these ulterior motives. Just you, you don't make you feel this sense of elite. That like who doesn't remember, learning PIG Latin on the playground as a child and instantly feeling superior to all the kids who couldn't speak it you feel, like you're, doing something right in life. you feel like you're, not only intellectually superior but morally superior, and so when a call it, gives you a new name that helps you should, your identity when they give you a set of buzzwords tat. No one else can understand and now, all of a sudden, you have that sense of belonging when they use phrases like act as if which is a thought, terminating cliche. This is a kurdish language, technic, those hawk about in the book that causes you near to stop thinking
for yourself as critically- and there are so many things that cultivates language does that are essential for the power of a coat leader. But because we take language for good dead because its invisible and we grew up with phrases like sticks and stones, may break your bones, but words can never hurt you. We often don't stop to consider how powerful can really be. language is, I believe you wrote verbatim in the book- and I just Didn'T- put quotes around it, but let me paraphrase so that I don't just take your language here. Languages, important because speeches. The first thing were willing to change about ourselves and why the last things we will let go you wanted to like you're in the club and then after you're out of the club may be the habit dies hard. I don't know tell me about that: It's true yeah. I was touching on this a bit earlier, but let's say you go to an introductory meeting for something like landmark, or I don't know some yoga group that one of your friends wanted you to come to and they ask you to repeat a chance. You know odds. Are you? Do it they're, not asking you to show
your head or relocate anywhere. It seemingly harmless, Slowly and pernicious we, a group, can twist your understanding of the language that you ve grown up speaking your whole life such that you start to feel this really intense level of internal conflict, something that a lot of called Scientology is one that comes to mind will do is they'll. Take words that you thought the definition of forever, even growing up speaking this language and they will slowly and deliberately warp than to give them a new cult, specific meaning, actually great example that to minors, and one of the first interviews I did for the book was with this woman, issue and for a few years was a member of a group called three h, o the happy Healthy, wholly organization, its acount Alenia, yoga called fun. Fact. They own yogi, tee the tea brand grocers Turkey brand, we probably all out sitting in our kitchens, so she exclaimed
that this was a new age, calls and used a lot of phrases leg. You know vibrations and pc in consciousness and what not, but one phrase at the used was old soul. old soul to an average english speaker is almost a compliment. I mean someone who's wise beyond their years, but in three It shows it meant someone who had reincarnated life after life after life and could never get it right was still an old soul and it could be framed as this threat. You could hang the sprays over someone head as a way to manipulate their behaviour to control them. It's really a form of like linguistic guy, waiting when you cause some one to question the language that they ve been using their whole entire life and something that a lot of destructive cultivators take advantage of linguistic, gas lighting, meaning. Maybe then you can't, speaking not been able to find the words? You then can't even find the words to describe something
because all those words that you would normally used to describe- and maybe an abusive relationship now mean totally different things and they ve been co, opted by the called so you no way of even really explaining to yourself what's going on, because none of it makes sense anymore totally. Scientology. Has all these courses right, the first ones you take her Bartley Communication or ups and downs and live there really innocuous, at least they seem so and they as you go on in Scientology, you been in there for ten years, you ve invested half a million dollars in it. They get more and extreme and more and more ridiculous and more and more monotonous, and I had ex scientologist talk to me about how she took a course called key to life, where you would basically like look up All the most miniscule words in the english language. Conjunctions propositions were like and whatever and amused,
make sure that you understood those words according to Scientology specific definition. It was such a tedious thing, but it was considered quite prestigious because, if you graduated from key life, like meant that you were so loyal so committed Scientology that you were even willing to unpack your understanding of something as simple as a proposition or conjunction so yeah get links the gas, leaning, meaning they are causing you to doubt your very perception. howdy you're, very ability to communicate in the way you ve been communicating your whole life your listening to the Jordan Harbinger show with our guest Amanda Montel, we'll be right back this episode response in part by good. Our acts stop overpaying for your, descriptions and check good our acts to help find the best price for your proscription medications. I didn't know that different prices can vary between pharmacies by as much as a hundred dollars, but also you know, no surprise big farm and all that now
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supporting those who support us now back to Amanda Montel. I know that you, our reform, jewish synagogues and I'm a Christmas tree. Jus, meaning like I didn't even know, jewish allows a teenager and, as I cool whatever christmases volume but like you ever look into cup, Allah where it's like we're going to spend six months talking about the olive symbol in like what it means, and it's totally not just a letter, even though it's like kind of is right, and so they do two orthodox Jews or whatever will study the history these letters or these symbols and like where they appear, and then they make patterns in the book. If you have the right version of the book and then that's like magical stuff, that's not just Torah like that's all hidden meanings are in there. That's what that sounds like to me. Come Bala expert over here. If no, I mean I mean look, I don't even know how to do Hanukkah yeah! I Kabila was
the groups that ended up just kind of on the cutting room floor of coal like there are truly thousands upon thousands of groups that could be considered condition. I could have included in the book. I know Cabal as far as like Madonna was indicated by you, I was like maybe she's gonna mention that sports. Thing that you remind me of just now is that you know now oh that so many people are rejecting the religions that they grew up with some scholar, including theologian named Tara. Isabella Burton have spoken about how our spiritual if today has become more re mixed so any kind of creates their own but spoke version of religions, so maybe like in the morning. You do a meditation app and in the afternoon you go to sell cycle, and in the evening you do like should bought with your friend. That has come like a which he is that young people are sort of playing fast and loose with what is considered religion. These days, which I think can be quite pause if, but you know, when you're putting spiritual stake in
operations and in groups that aren't vetted, it can always be risky. Of course, the craving this is almost a throwaway line in your book, but I loved the craving for belonging, doesn't take someone broken or disturbed to take effect. We are wired for it. Like I said it was just like one line in the book, but I think that such an important point, because What you're saying is you're not joining call necessarily because you had a terrible childhood and you were a homeless teenager who get addicted drugs. This can affect anyone. This, gasoline for these believes is language which we all have, and we all use on show like a federal child right so Langley. The foundation of what we used to think there We already have the programming really. The basic rating system that occult needs to, in fact, if you dont, have to be this sort of in in person, you fall into it. Slowly, like people do with Scientology or multilevel marketing aimed selling protein shakes dot dot dot. On a cruise ship talking about it works. If
work it or whatever slogans having its own. How did I get here? How did I end up spending all this money? What I leave my husband view? This doesn't make any sense. It oh sure I mean there's so much to touch on there. I mean the media, typically media coverage of calls like Jones Town and the man in family murders and more recently, next CM would lead. You believe that people who wind up in efforts are desperate, disturbed, intellectually deficient, and I went in believing those same things. You know I went into research thinking like I'm so sceptical, I'm better than these people. Ok, maybe not that extreme but I definitely went in with my using the notions. Well, when I mean being the daughter, research scientists. You definitely think like. Oh, I am, above all, this muddle really smart. So therefore I am this member. I get it up, unlike my daddy let me about you yeah, but when I on the phone, so many of these sources. They struck me as incredibly bright
service oriented like fatal flaw, The pattern that I saw from culture, Iver too cold survivor was not desperation. If anything, it was optimism. It was this over abundance of idealism and faith that solution since the world's most urgent problems, whether that be poverty or racism or addiction or a mental health crisis, whatever it is, are able to be found and you who, by associating with this group or grew, can be a part of that change like yours, special you believe in this, you have what it takes. Who among us would not want to hear something like that, and so then, of course you know, media coverage will tell you like all these were mine, controlled, communicants like willingly took their own life or willingly got branded or whatever it is. But, of course nobody would sign up for a group out of the gate. If that was what was presented from the jump, you know you're presented with what seems
to be the promise of a better world, and your exactly re, like language is the fabric that makes up are very distance without language. There are no believes there are no ideologies, there are no cold. So, while occult can look like you know, a bunch of people on a compound wearing robbing the shaved heads are looking like the Amish or whenever it is, the linchpin is what it sounds like lots, talk about some of the uneven, no language concepts or it may even using the right terminology analogy now. You got me and my head about language things like code. Switching right. Let's talk what this is because a lot of call leaders, most notably in your book Jim Jones, used this a lot yeah
Oh Jim Jones was a pretty diabolical practitioner code. Switching I mean could switching is essentially using every linguistic resource available to you in order to communicate most effectively so code. Switching might look like alternating between different dialects. Different language is different language varieties in general, in the space of a single sentence in the space of a conversation, and the stakes can be oh as low as like. Oh I hear you're from Chicago whenever nor Europe, where are you we're drought, Michigan, vision of Asia so like Let's say you know there are some like fling term. Whenever that everybody in Michigan Uses- and I hear you using them- or I hear you're like spread-
values or whatever? And I must say I am also from Michigan, and I want to connect to you so I slip into my Michigan accent in order that sort of a low stakes form of code switching but then codes, which can also be as the states can be as high as someone who say, speaks a marginalized dialects like african American English deciding to or not even deciding cause, it's almost always subconscious slipping into. So odd standard, English in order to access opportunity or avoid persecution and so on, but Jim Jones, used code, switching and much more Machiavelli in way he would change his lexicon according to what he knew the person standing in have wanted to hear, Jim Jones was able to appear to a variety of people from all different walks of life, including you know, young, why socialist college graduates, but all though you know middle age, black women who were active in San Francisco church scene and so with them. He would use the sword.
Like familiar lilt like a baptist pasture, but with Belike Young White College grads. No, he would quote need shine. You like wax philosophical, and sometimes he would do that in the city. the sentence. I mean I had a Jones answer I never said any ones that he could call the Bible and then turn around and preach socialism and because of innate by sees that we human beings already have including confirmation by us or the pension to seek out, and here remember, information at confirms what we already to believe and disregard information that controversial it because of biased he's like that, you hear what you want to hear and you turn out the rest, so that sort of defies some of the stereo. that exists out thereabout. What brainwashing is? No, you can't really coerce someone into believing something that they are on no level open to believing you can just sort of radicalized and radicalized and radicalized from their with language. The civilian
thing looking at cards, like Heavens Gait, which It is like a nineties throw bad calls a little oh gee for internet era baby. I think they made a bunch of money. Designing websites, like that's kind of how I ve legally remember this right. They had it like a GEO cities website which have used the internet in the nineties. You might know what that is. It was gonna like the equivalent of airspace or something like that way back them totally. You can still see the Heavens gay website like it's up and running, and it is like a clusterfuck of comics we are in the bureau. Bacteria and all the members changed last names to some portmanteau of the leaders names rights over like you, lose your identity. By changing it using the language of were all of family, because we all have the same last name, because we all changed in with that's how we refer to each other. So it's just like an extra step of removing the person you were before you joined the suicide call
right. So, in Heavens, gate everybody would drop the name that they had before and pick a new name and they all have the same suffix, which was odious, though there was like an Dodi Silvo teacher Cody and something that odious right this portmanteau of tea Dough, which were the names of the two leaders of Heavens Gate bud yeah. I mean a lot of monastic religions meaningful. Give you a new, a new religious name to represent your new identity and no that's done the lot of groups, not just religious ones, and it doesn't necessarily have to be a massive red flag, but it does represent them of shedding of your own old identity and assuming of a new one and in combination with other language tactics, you can start to put together a picture of okay. This is a little too culture for comfort, some other funds. Which things that Heavens Gate would do fun,
Obviously this was like this sort of sites. Five called in the nineties when digital technology was up and coming and was presenting. No potential answers to the world's oldest questions That is the language that Marshall Apple Wade, who was the final leader of Heavens, gate, would use and self, in Heavens, gate the kitchen was neutral lab, and laundry room is called the fibre lamb and if you were in the mansion, where everybody lives that was referred to as in craft. But if you were the real secular world that was called out of craft and so at language was not just gobbledygook it was doing a real religious work. It was putting number is endless, rhetorical head space where they could envision themselves, no on the spacecraft heading toward the kingdom of God, which is where they wanted to be completely makes sense to rename people write. It builds other bonds with the people in the in group and it breaks the bonds of people in the out group. I mean look at nicknames. I guess like the folks. He is way too low
identity in a dangerous called, but really like you know, you you're on a sports team and use recalling somebody by a nickname. Only the team uses it. The guy's got a different. inside his house with his family. But then, like the teachers, call him by a totally different names. He's got almost like separate identities, he's bub at home, and he is like absentee on the football field and its coolies Russell right in that's a real example from my best friend in high school and he was like different people. nine Mama's boy at home at school he was whatever and on the football team is of animal and it it worked well, and I can see why you'd want to do that. Football is so called the year Football Scotty, that's for sure, mean even Highschool Football gulped college football, especially I mean the rituals and prayers, and so many college groups are just the like collapsed, the definition of a called it's just that there are culturally accepted one right, that's true
there's a because they make a lot of money for a lot of different people and its popular widely. Even the aspects that are not guilty right, you can sort of indulge in football without being in the old part, and I dont know. If that's true for a lot of cults, I mean. Maybe it is, I suppose you could always so herbal life without a part of all the other stuff, but that certainly not what they encourage you to do. Yeah, that's why I'm here groups belong on this spectrum right like there's. No such thing as this is a good cop, that's about called- or this is definitely a called- that's not so many of the scholars I spoke to for this book disagree it slightly about what constituted a cold or even reviews to use the word altogether? Because it so jack meant loaded, it so subjective. Cultural nativity has so much to do with what's considered a cold verses, a better exam
did religion verses, another kind of tightly bound group. We know some scholars will say alternative religion or marginalize religion in order to seem less judges. But while those terms, I think work in more of an academic setting, I kind of just like to say cultivation of that's cultivation yeah. I suppose that makes sense. Euphemisms is another ten Nick and the example of this. That comes to mind, of course, is speaking of com This is re education right, we dont say it's a torture camp or hard labour camp. We say we're gonna re educate you China's doing it right now at the wiggers and It's like all. We have to teach you why our system is really great by making you do tedious things over and over and removing your identity and may be pulling out your fingernails. If you don't do what we want in the way, we want you to do it, that kind of stuff We hear about it with North Korea as well and use
these used these types of euphemisms used to gloss over it's almost like the same thing, with a gas lighting where they it's use to gloss over terms. That might be that we want to avoid, but also it helps redefine things in ways that we and use the word for anything else totally I mean when we think of stream groups like Jonestown and Heavens gay. We know about their tragic code as we know about the suicide, but the people who joined those groups did not join thinking. Their experience would end in they joined thinking, their experience would end in transcendence or a better world and then, as the leaders became or powerful and more radical and more power. We're hungry the idea Gee change and that's a lot of what you see from culture called like they start out with one belief system, and then the language is so vague that it's easy enough to switch the rules to break the rules too. Move the ideology I'm according to whatever is convenient for the leader so for Heaven
whose gaiters, like I remember I talk to you Heavens, get survivor named Frank Livered, who ended up leaving on long before the suicide, but when he joined like TAT, listening to the next evolutionary level above human, which was one of the euphemisms that they would use or in the end death, didn't require you like exiting your your vehicle, as they would call it. That didn't mean like, killing your earthly body. It could be done while you are still in your body, but then overtime, Marshall, APP away decided. No, we need to exit our vehicles, which this is. This even is, and we need to get rid of earthly bodies so that we can transcend our ever and become as the language was so euphemistic and lofty that idea, energy was able to change more easily that yeah. That certainly makes sense because if I'm sitting there and it goes, you know, I've decided to make a quick change. Are no longer just gonna meditate a lot we have taken our I'm like a what say that again, I'm out, but if it's like, we have to exit,
vehicle and like all okay, what does that mean shed pre existing Louisiana over a period of years? I'm like oh we're just going to leave our bodies behind. I get it now, but if he's like, we have to a drink cyanide, unlike ok, you know- I came here to make websites I'm leaving you have here and oftentimes leg the leaders at the top when we think of them. As these like evil masterminds, you had a grand plan, the entire time, but oftentimes they're, just spit bawling they're, just following the power as it comes and making it up as they go along. Even someone like Jim Jones, I mean I think he was like, so we harder and better read, then someone like Marshall away, the leader of Heavens Gate. But what use is it comparing the intelligence because, like terrible people, but Jonestown started out as an integration is to church like it started out with a sick, really pure intention and then evolved into this like socio political movement, and then they moved to South America? And you know it spun completely out of control, but no called right starts out. Like. This is what we're gonna do, we're being there
clear it difficult, does started out that way. That probably means it's like I'm but more ethical called. You should feel free to keep going people who don't know by away pressure down this earlier, but Jonestown was started as a socio. local mover, at least at least I sent a church in church in United States. Socio political movement started getting a lot of heat from. I think Congress, or something like that, or maybe that came later, but they moved down it. Was it Bolivia, it Bolivia, it was Guyana, Guyana, ok, moved down to Guyana and then He created their church I have kept down there and then they started getting more and more heat from the. U S, government a senator, I think, flew down there. They murdered him because he was like what the hell is. This I'm going down I'm coming back with the Marines or something like that right. Try to. take a few members back with them and they It killed him because they wanted to that and then it think he realized. Ok, I'm not working to get assaulted by the army at this point like step to as they're coming down forest, so he had every one drink cyanide
is cool aid. Right was at it and that's where drinking the phrase drinking the Kool aid comes from here, it actually was noon? Kool aid is a generic brand called visa waiver aid. But nobody cares about slavery, Gaia, sorry, Kool aid, in all these years. Yet no speaking of brands, whose names have been sullied by call tragedies at the Heavens Gator, we're all wearing these Nike decades when they died, and so Nike was like. Dammit, unlike immediately struck the struck the style at Rome shelves narrowly so our well yard dammit yeah, but I've noticed that bat sale of black and white Nike is back, I I dont know. If there's like our poetry, there's of symbolism there, but yeah So a lot of the when they move down. South America became Jones town down their life. There are sucks like the ground, wasn't but all it was not the promised land that they were expecting that they were promised. A lot of families were concerned,
burned about, you know their loved ones who were down there and suffering, and so they pressure on men Ryan, to go down and see. What's going on and Jim Jones charismatic figure that was put on this whole show for congressmen. Ryan ends in a really try to win him over, but I think Jim Jones by then knew that they were screw like they were bound to. he found out Congo, Ryan went to leave and some people tried to escape with him like a lot of people were profoundly unhappy there. We think of the Jonestown victims, as these like Brainwash, it's you like lined up voluntarily and drink the coolly, but it was completely coerced. It was really moreover, murder a lotta people tried to escape, but it was the sort of where it was like. If you try to escape we're gonna kill you look Jim Jones hide a military his own, and so they opened fire. They shot a lot of people, bunch people died, including congressmen, Ryan and so by then Jim Jones was like. Ok, I'm going down and if I'm going down everybody's going down with me- and so he
you know, gathered every one in the pavilion and he gave this speech. That's incredibly eerie. You can listen to there's a recording of it. It's available online. It's called the Jonestown duct tape and you can hear this type of coltan language that he was preaching on the pulpit to you know, try to create order to try to prevent chaos, and he speaks very calmly and very euphemistically. He refers to death as the great trend deletion, just a mere transition to the other side. He about how you know they had to kill themselves. As a former Revolutionary Suicide, which was a term co, opted by the black Panthers that Jones and twisted to suit his own goals I was not at all the events that a lot of us grow up believing it was. Certainly. I thought it was something completely different than what I discovered votes about thought, terminating cliches, because these are everywhere- and people often don't even know- that their using them or that people are using them around them because they can be they can kind of
making under the wire in a way. What are they? First of all, I mentioned one earlier act as is, but a thought terminating cliche. It's a phrase that was coined in the early sixties by a psychologist named robber, J lifting it describes a sort of stock Express in that easily memorized easily repeated an aim that shutting down independent thinking or questioning soaps. Brittany is obviously the enemy to any call to screw click. They need to be able to shut down. people when they tried to express push back or descent, and if you have a repertoire of these, like zinging stock expressions that can and people's cognitive dissonance, that's gonna really helpful so thought Germany increase. Chaise can sound like you know, dismissed a valid anxiety or or doubt as a limiting belief as just a limiting believe multi level marketing companies, though often say like oh well, if you can't, you know, sell all these products like nasty crimson, eggs or whatever? That's just a victim mindset? No, don't be a victim
oh and other new age, not terminating cliche. That use will sometimes here and keep on circles is like will don't let yourself be ruled by fear, Q and Unthought terminating cliche. Another one would be trust the plan or do your research and thought We include chaise also show up in everyday life in the form of phrases. Leg or boys will be boys or it's all in God's It is what it is and the real compelling because its work to think like its work, to have to reconcile two. Conflicting ideas, in your mind like this is my family. I've been in this group arrive sums I do this idea for ten years. I want to believe it's true, but at the same time I have his instinct that something is wrong. If someone, as well. That's a victim mindset or that's a limiting believe you're like ok, and it puts that cognitive dissonance to bed long enough that the person serving you that line can remain in power right, so it helps
so levy at that cognitive, dissonance and also says essentially to our brain. Hey, don't think about. What's going to happen next or don't think about these potential consequences of the action that you just took. like hey look. I realize you just spent the money you needed for food for your kids and ran on your month. Will you re up of crappy hair products that you still can't sell that you have a garage full of, but that's all part of the system you gotta work, the system or, like you said don't be. A victim good system always works right yeah. So if this is it's not working, it's not the system. It's you, ok must be. I'm not blame myself. That's a slightly different concepts while, but it also helps redirect you're thinking we do use these kinds of things all the time in its really infuriating. Even our friends, is it right? I know somebody like lost their job drink of and now they're losing their house, and he rode into our food that Friday, which is like our advice, show and his friends are all we'll everything transfer reason this is part of you know what the universe
as in store for you and he's like. No, I want to strangle you I'm going through a hard time, stop minimizing what I'm going through by being like. Well the youth first provides, does it I their dying people on the streets and other countries to the universe provide for them. Maybe I just have some shit look right now, I'm screwed completely I mean even a phrase like well back her was just brainwashed, can be a thought, terminating cliche in and of itself, because its easily allows you to write off that person to shut down conversation to prevent it from moving forward. Yet, Phrases show up all the time and I think there especially on line there in large part, responsible so many of the ideological schisms that we're seeing nowadays there are just these buzzwords and thought terminating cliches. That shutdown conversation this is the Jordan Harbinger show with our guest Amanda Montel, we'll be right back this episode.
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only shirt worth wearing by the way you can know rate the show of listening to us on Spotify. That is a huge help and makes the show more visible search for us in your spot. If I up quickly it's on the upper right and make it happen now. For the rest, my conversation with Amanda Montel, asking for more information, essentially kryptonite to a power abuser or occult leader, so they have to use these. Could Jane to shut it down a big Jim Jones. We, his thing was like what all the media's thought which is funny because where we heard that recently right now everywhere. I added that sound familiar. Oh that's a cloud neck! That's classically! People have been blaming the media since The invention of the media, have not written yes class, they are mean Hitler. Did it right Hitler like ours, the media trying to win. everyone up. Really, it's, not the guy, It, has got brown shirts running around breaking jewish businesses windows. It's the medium, ok, whatever the voice of God,
the concept I found kind of interesting that, like middle aged white males, have this in built authority even if third pseudo intellectual buffoons, like Billy Macfarlane to fire fast Jim Jones, Jordan Harbinger. Not that I must persuade the regime Jones yeah you're buying years I've been quite the company there. I say now: that's it! I'm fanning myself right now like well! Well, you know go on this is kind of an interesting concept that I never thought of, but I suppose that there is an element of truth to that right. We're SAM thinking about, like my teachers and the voices of authority in my own life, kind of all that guy yeah we give people the power that we been condition to think they deserve, and what have we been condition to think the sound of authority. Is it's the voice of liking him a Walter Cronkite. It's the voice of these white men that upheld positions of our for so long. We hear the voice of like a.
Women, a young woman of color, we think there is an inherent like dizziness or lack of authority attributed to their voice, but it also depends on the context oh, you know. A lot of these socio political calls in religious calls are helmed by white men, I sometimes joke that, like Jim Jones, Elon, Musk, Jeff, Baisers, great glass the founder of Cross, where they could all be like identical twins. It is all the same and something but let's say talking about like a wellness cause or a new age called or a year. We call well what's the type of authorities figure that we ve been condition to trust in that space. It someone warlike till swan like a twentieth, Paltrow, look alike, you know the voices that we ve been can fishing over years and years and years to queue the signal, Thirty in our minds are the ones that we're going to automatically trust whether they're talking about God, our government or whatever. We think they have the inherent right to talk about. What
but Emma lends a little bit our. I want to focus too much on it, because I am going to do a big expos ay with Robert Fitzpatrick is like the umbrella guy, but Emma limbs are interesting to me. They always kind of have been because they, on certain groups, they like women or immigrants more because there's a often like an element of vulnerability, or at least economic vulnerability like you're, an immigrant you wanna, get ahead here. and you may be your husband works here in the middle of Amerika. You want to feel more valuable another. Your kids are in college. We want to bring in a little extra income on the side and it's easy to recognise these people online, because the groups themselves often look and sound the same to your point, but I two while one we were allowed out of the house. I went to an event, and I saw this group that just look- it looked like a media or with a forever twenty one outlet on it. Just hit a trailer park is six hundred miles an hour, and these people where the result- and it was like the look the same and they were all like yelling and screaming and drunk, and I was like what is that and of course one of em like its color street, where
business and I google that nose like em Elam knew it and it's just like us nap on nails, business of some kind, and it was obvious thing in the world. I forget what my she was beginning to be to give photo. Oh yeah, I actually I as the word sperience leg over the summer when covered restrictions, were letting up. One of my friends and I went to a winery in Orange County, which is like the hat corridor, one of the headquarters of the airline industry. The true headquarters is in Utah, because NL em and Mormonism go together like a MAC and cheese. But we are an Orange county, which is, I guess, like a satellite headquarters for them a ministry and we're at this winery. And yet there are bunch of leg. You know women with the same hair extensions and like the wide brimmed hat and like the skinny genes with the same angle, boots and card Again- and I was like what do you think they sell Do terror or you know urban and we were being silly and making fun of them, which is a nice and,
dont make fun of them in the book, but you can't begrudge me that, just during a derived, your interview, anyways a fair vs Emmeline. During ever since the dawn of the modern, directly both industry and have always target id perch regularly non working like middle class wives and there is, but people who are locked out of the dignified labour market to some capacity and its pitched as this opportunity to make a full time living from her time work without ever having to leave your kids really like one of the first and biggest emblems was tupperware. there was this woman named brownie wise, her real name who decided that the women who would be interested in buying this tupperware would not only be a great no customer base, but also great sales forest. She was one of the first people to really target them. Then that's been. The strategy the entire time, but the messaging changes, though, with the Times Enzo, while in the nineteen forty and fifty is Tupperware, was promised to be the best thing that
and your women since they got the vote, you know the sort of pseudo feminists message of that time. Now who, here more of this pseudo feminists, commodified, feminist girl, boss, boss, Babe rhetoric and now in particular, yellow you'll, hear this rhetoric combined with talk of like natural beauty, holistic, beauty, essential oils, of course, since, like wellness and conspiratorial thinking have overlapped in such a profound, but yeah Divan Diagram of Like Emma lambs? he went on and anti boxers. I've actually literally made that men diagrams on mainstream What's your instagram, I know you'd want to say, if you just being classy and not saying go, I didn't me, I didn't mean to take us down this rabbit whole. It is Amanda Underscore Montel, but I, as I mentioned at the beginning of the interview you I am in the collective instagram, I'm trying to defect braver me, Emily only placed goes Tik Tok, which is worse, so maybe you should say no! No. I don't know what to do
thought, terminating cliches. Do we see with Emma one. I see all the time is it's not appear, the game pyramid schemes are illegal as if like one does illegal things or illegal things aren't allowed to exist, or I would never do anything illegal. It's like I made it disappear. amidst game, except for you have a product to cover up the fact that at the pyramids game, the end yeah, That is a funny one, because if you take the logic literally one step further, you discover that like just because something illegal doesn't mean it doesn't exist, even if you don't know it's illegal or the thing that doing is illegal, doesn't mean that you're not right doing it. It's like when men wanna was illegal. What was I not been marijuana anyway. Yes, the funny one. Another good one is on. You know this: isn't a pyramid scheme corporate observed a real pyramid scheme rights and they'll leg, draw pyramid and they'll be like employees,
a ceo, that's the pyramids game and flake. That's just a Buzz phrase: that's literally just a thought, terminating cliche, because if you look up the math, which is fairly need to do in terms of all the math. There is out there. He quickly find that if all of the promises that they vehemently made about recruiting ten people a month in and then those ten people are grew. Ten me people and then, at the end of a year, Are you very well? Could be a millionaire as you were promised, but there would be over a trillion people in your down line, so like Noah corporate jobs. Our problem adding in many other ways, but they're, not pyramids right. It's in there Case everything with a hierarchy is a pyramid: the military, that's a pyramid scheme general on top private, The bottom riddle me
one Jordan ride like that. It just doesn't make any sense when you break it into other examples that have hierarchy is also the whole idea behind that they use the term like J, O B, right, pejorative and they'll say: oh yeah, he she's got a geo, be it's like all. You want to get away from that slash beetle, we dependent on this multilevel marketing thing for income in it also that's up us versus them thing words like. Oh all, your friends who have J o bees they're, not in the cool kids club. There still do, wage slave stuff, and I literally here people save use those terms way slave they ever jail bees. pejorative it's bad to have that Incycle wait a minute. So if I become told be dependent on the infrastructure that this Elam sets up. Then you a measure of approval from everyone else like you have to go online yeah we're cool now, you're screwed yeah jail
it is this term that am way in particular, will use those say with disdain that anybody who works for an employer, verses and applying has a jail be or a jack of Abbas than what they are selling is not an entrepreneurial opportunity. Its hope like this is the business of milk and the promises that no, this is not just a way to make money. This is a superior way as being in the world are being involved with this company which hawks what like soap. What for it is, and the product he always garbage and dont civil fill a true market need and don't abide by any of the rules of economics. No it being involved with this company you're not just become a milliner was in a year, but you'll be come a better mother will become a better member of your family. You might even serve God. A lot of these companies are religiously affiliated, whether with Christianity or Mormonism you'll be but better American. I mean they really do preach some measure the prosperity, gospel or you know the rhetoric that monetary blessing.
heavenly blessings are inherently connected, and so when the stakes are not just money but you're, standing with God. That's when you know that this is not just your average sky, it's more complex than that. How can we tell if our language is being taken over by o work or calls or whatever like. How do we figure out if these terms start to invade our vocabulary? Is it is simple as just paying more attention to what we say and do sure yeah I mean, I think, having self awareness is important, I think, if a form of language, cues you to have a strong emotional reaction. While securing you to stop asking questions, if it makes you feel superior to everyone else in the world, just for the ability to speak it or use it. If it encourages you to talk like every one else, just for this give it to disengage from those on the outside, that's a form of language
challenging. Obviously like we crave this community, this sends a spirituality, but just to have that, like skeptical, Twinkle the back of your brain. That tells you that there are some element of make believe here and at the end of the day, you should be able to strip off that groups: linguistic, uniform and return to an identity that is more complex than the ideology of just that group. Just that Guru that's the best thing we can do, and I learned this lesson myself like just throughout the process. Writing this book. You know I have on followed with a lower case. F some you know with certainty blue answers. You were having to cultivation impact on the way that I think, of course, now just social media. You can follow something without follow, It's right by you, just to not be so weary that you find yourself paranoid, but to be aware enough that you can keep yourself safe
I wanted to highlight how it's not always harmful rikers I'm. I can learn new things and new terms for things and not be in a cult of that thing and it's important to know the difference right. It's different if You are using a new term or something it might even be like your in groups, language, verses, I'm on able the function now, because I can't talk outside of the Mooney called or only use. So analogy words now, and I can't even really form a coherent thought with a normal person. then you're, starting to run into problems like of your entire pattern of thinking has taken over by that, and we ve been seeing Really a sort of troubling bastard icing of science language recently online and a lot of new age terminology for decades has always use phrases like frequency and vibration. I mean that those are technically physics terms to talk about spirituality, but signs already like under threat of these days, and so
but when you have so many these influencers, who really even like, will work the definition of the word research. like research, you, a lot of people online, does not mean reviewing the purity said he you in and doing their due diligence which granted like is hard. We can't all be expected to do a p, hd level worth of research. Every time we want to learn something new, but when you suggest that researches just go, down a confirmation, biased rabbit hole on red it or you tube, providing fantasy explanations to things in the world that feel inexplicable. That is problem- and that's what I see influencers doing in the problem, with these people being influencers and not sort of like in person, doktor quacks- is that nothing to hold them accountable, I mean you, don't need any credentials to practice as an influence. Her, which is troubling I'm looking at my influence or degree over there, and I think I'm gonna get scammed and it's a shot. In that people believe this. But I guess you know when you take voice of God through,
a Phd on their that doesn't exist and then like you know what you're doing and start selling seminars, and then you add in like look somebody. You two views, I've gotten it's like war. Of course this guy must know what he's talking about, even if its complete nonsense and that's where the stuff gets even more dangerous, because these are people who offering essentially medical advice that look. If you get ripped off enamel, am it sucks, but it probably won't ruin your physical health, long term. this. On the other hand, I dont know, though, because in Lula row the leggings I'm alarm like they were getting gastric surgery for wait law so that they come at a yeah There is a lot at stake, but I think you're right, you know with these sort of like doktor death types. They're, not influencers who are telling you may be ineffectual ice cream or like a poorly made sure, it's like bear, selling your soul, back to you- and I am particularly concerned with those who claim to be mental health authorities, because companies,
the Paris socially having never met the people that their influencing their able to convince them to go off their medication and yo? It makes sense that were gravitating toward me, like this. During a time when we have so little trust in healthcare system, when there is so much panic surrounding our help and wellness, when nothing. Mental health care is more difficult and more expensive than ever. It really makes sense the businesslike perfect breeding ground for these, in a pernicious figures to take advantage, Yet you mentioned in your book that I'm gonna butcher this, but like low education, folks, often or believe in ghosts and other superstition and higher educated folks are actually more likely to believe new age nonsense and, I think, is Michael Shermer episode for ninety two of the show, something along the lines of smart people are better at defending, believes that they have come to for non smart reasons. S I that code and its true, you know again, I think, out of self
protection or superciliousness, or whatever we tell ourselves like. Oh only idiots would believe X, Y Lindsey and, whilst rice have found that no there is the correlation between your level of education in your literacy, with the scientific method and the type of not smart, believe you might hold. We all believe irrational things I mean who comes to any decision in life by making a big prose and cons list or you know, consulting a bunch of textbooks like that's it just simply not how human beings make decisions we have limited time on earth. We take these mental short cuts. We make decisions based on experience. Says based on irrational things and that's ok, that is human, but in this, like ever complicate and ever coltan world we just need to, a little bit more slowly as the psychologist Daniel Economy might say, but I really like this fact that I and while researching the book that when given
personality tests, some of our smart. This minds in recent history, like the astronomer Carl Sagan, will score off the charts in both conscientiously and open mindedness, so I'll Sagan was a person who was open minded enough that in the night in seventy is when extraterrestrial life was considered like a totally wacky conspiratorial idea here, no? I can acknowledge that might be possible, but he was not so open minded that he would consider that view of those had already landed and whirling controlling our behavior. So I think, having that balance is really important because being too skeptical being too paranoid, can stymie progress and can also, I don't know, cause you to dialogue yeah. What that's you just nailed the ending, I think stock, the landing, because I was going to ask you how we balance a healthy scepticism without becoming a total misanthrope. Who does
trust anyone even when we should really be open to new ways of thinking- and I was gonna use, a Carl Sagan quote, which is how do we be open minded, but not so open minded that our brain falls out, but there we go. You ve made it but the other is no perfect answer. It is the sort of like data day tango, but this is the I that were on this earth like no one has the answers to everything we can just do our best to negotiate leg, at an hard data day, a man a month, Thank you so much. Thank you. me, thoughts on this episode, but before I get into that, here's what you should check out next on the Jordan Harbinger, show the Silver G Cherokee just cause, of course, in the oncoming Lena forces us to stop the doors popped open and they got out the guy once he was called, had to tell him black a cane his hand. Do not back see justice pot face guy
there without Chrome pistol in his hand they jumped out- and I knew exactly what was going on. I was just like in shock, do black came over open. The candour fix me out leads me to the charge you put me in the back seat. He gets in after me. I looked at him
it reaches our peoples. Thirsty cab I was wearing, is called the syrian December. This is new year's Eve, positive my eyes and lazy forward and presses the barrel of the rifle to my head. You took off couple seconds later. I just don't know who had so are the way to figure out who has no voice. I asked for a cigarette because, like pretty much everyone reassuring anti smoking, anyone in the gang of smoke when they told me I can smoke. That's when I knew I was really the trouble with the utmost reform, which is our neighbouring the up the hall to the boil, and that's where they tortured me everywhere, is a guy hanging by handcuffs simply now my knees pent up too much and force a car tyres around and they take iron Rhine sway over the tire, but on your knees and the crook lapsing into plagues, then they fucking, oberlander storage costs and your feet in the air and you can't and eighteen and that they start whale and on the bottom see. Let me tell you something region herds and I got a hundred fifty that was the beginning of our punch. What do you have in your mind, we're trying to escape from terrorist prisoners? We immortal worry about your orange between a rock and a hard place for a hundred and twenty seven hours ago. I never saw that
here about how Matthew survive, captivity and escaped being held hostage by Al Qaeda in Syria. Check out episode too. Seventeen of the Jordan Harbinger Show as we covered in the show secular cult. Now I just so much easier to find because of the internet, so forbid. or for worse. It is much easier to find our group now. Even if our group is a bunch of honour on controlling damaged weirdos self have added folk. now Q Non is an interesting phenomenon. We didn't really touch on this too much, but q and as we ve done, shows about this before with Stephen Hoss in another called expert, they change CO, words. A lot part of that part of changing the language is to confuse moderation and social media companies, but it also Salt in a weird phenomenon, kind of like cult, section, withers, pelts within cults, because the language keeps changing in one crews. Using these words and one crew is using different words, of course, of Cuban on the plot. Is
politely, tired and goes back to called since the dawn of time, most people who believe in stuff, like you and honour of course, ignorant of history, surprise, surprise and allow cute war is lifted from old books and oh gee conspiracy theories like the blood libel and a lot of thought terms. It includes phase like Amanda mentioned, are also very common in Q and on circles right you go after some. They are. Somebody goes after you more likely and they go do your research or trust the plan or all the regular mainstream media is propaganda because they can't answer your arguments and they won't answer your arguments so really encourages a bunch of confirmation by us. This is the same, called like nonsense. That happens in any other called Q things their different there not also most called again Q included. They use vague language to also help aid confirmation biased. This is called the Barnum effect our minds essentially fill in blanks with what we want to hear see or with personal examples, and this is one reason why people think psychics work because you'll get this vague statement and you'll see
ah, I did recently part ways with somebody important to me in your filling in the blanks- they didn't guess it. They say something random and vague and your finding meaning in it. We are meaning machines, pattern, recognizing machines as humans. Now in this house, but I did want to spend too much time on Scientology. I've got a bunch of shows on cults before one specifically answer intelligent with Leah Remedy will linked to that in the shone out. The episode is for eighty five and you can always go to Jordan, Harbinger Dotcom, slash for eight five if you want to get into that sign, Allergies also really great with the language right. They tell you that it's gonna help you in Hollywood. In fact, it might actually help you in Hollywood, they name people who are outsiders suppresses person's right? They want to isolate you from others who have criticised Scientology, especially Amanda also mentioned the exercise of word clearing in Scientology. We touched on it it's in the book. This is where you redefine just about every word in the english language. It keeps you from questioning you think of the future, because it takes so
time it's exhausting its expensive. Of course, Scientology is very expensive. It ends up not being with it. It's humiliating not to mention confusing by design to what this causes you to do is not educate yourself on the meaning of the words. What it causes you to do is not to question anything that you're reading or learning which is kind of brilliant in its own devious way. I also what has too much time on multi level marketing scams specifically because I'm doing an episode on them as well with Robert Fitzpatrick. We can of course see the cold relax in our discussion here, especially with respect to the EU, of language. I really enjoy learning about culture. Of course I enjoyed this episode is well links to all things. Amanda Montel will be in the show notes at Jordan, harbinger dot com. Please use our work site links if you buy books from any guest on the show it does help support this programme transcripts or on the show that there is a video of this interview. Go up. Are you to channel at Jordan, harbinger dot com, Slash Youtube, I'm at harbinger on Twitter and Instagram, or connect with me. I'm linked in a love talking with the anywhere and everywhere speaking of connecting
I'm teaching you how to do just that in our six minutes. Networking course the course is free Jordan, harbinger dot com, slash course is where you can find it. I'm teaching you have to dig the well before you get thirsty and create relationships before you need them most of the ass you here on the show, subscribe and contribute to the course so come join us you'll, be smart, Many where you belong, the created in association with Podcast one. My team is Joe Harbinger Jays Sanderson Robert Programme Milly, Ocampo E Unbared, Josh, Ballard and Gabriel MA's Rai. Remember we write by lifting others the fee for this was that you share it with friends when you find something useful or interesting. If you know somebody's into language or you don't into cults shit. satisfied with them. I hope you find something great in every episode of the show the greatest compliment: you can give us is to share the show with those you care about. In the meantime, do your best to apply what you hear me Oh so you can live what you listen and we'll see you next time. This episode of concert in part by my first million podcast, if you're the type
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Transcript generated on 2022-02-23.