the cast on a huge show was severely beaten in my case underwear was the meat eater podcast you can't predict anything presented by an ex hunt creators of the most comprehensive digital mapping system for hunters download the hunt app from the itunes or google play store nor stand with annex dodgy builder relate to the story guy wrote in and he got his gotta nipple pierced i'm sure how i'm going to be able to relate to the story that's just the joke i stole from brian cowen where if you tell

as someone who has tell some stories the crowd you'll tell like some like perverse story and you'll stay like oh you know believe this little you'll appreciate this bill some story we were like later that i would i wanted to correct it if the guy gets snow appears and he writes about it he's out shooting his bow you can imagine this is going right oh go now very painful i am not sure that something will be writing about now well we ve been talking about stuff people get it started off with hunting scars gal rodya and say she had jumped to jump to barbed wire fence whirling hunt rift her nipple and then the ripple nipping nipple ripping store

we have come in enrolled in new was job an offence to go dove hoddan and therewithal store airways she had made a joke about our her husband her later said my husband call that one scarface and other people wrote in does nipple ribbon stories catches preview they're slow the take he is appears that's what i get that's warned a german god bless right but i just don't that now we can now my last november there before i went tone piercing oil for sure you wrote down all the things you get pierced analyse and i had to start like the top know when it would end out that won't be real low real low on my list but it catches it on bolstering

right i would i would having to me i would say that it happened you keep a secret no i would say it publicly yeah like i dunno how to say this but in the last few years i i've increased i've never been i've never i've never never been like reluctant to publicize wanna do something stupid but it's gotten up where i really wanted out there it's like a kind of a form of man masochism near one eyes you dumb mother fucker you people are going to know about this too you know it's maybe it's like some kind of form of like self betterment like well i think it's i think it's helpful too because the worst thing you can be as a blowhard what yeah so

if you are just generally competent person in you it's like your promising over delivering and if you're very vocal about what you screwed up but you'd are generally competent it's gonna get to do good for you and i found that when i have a contractor contract order that is appalling problem is beyond me to figure out have a contractor over and i say the arms domain when it comes to this right this makes the whole thing go better than if you're in there are a lot of you know what god it's all right you re dear i mean right you're also putting yourself in a position to learn a little bit more

we do speak of things then it is good stories you could tell to the world and kind of get it there and he met up on a on that i saw a picture by the door yeah no that's kinda where i was going with this bow out of your own window closes yeah this is me putting on sackcloth and ashes right here is that a biblical reference what part of the bible rose and peered at la sack claw back in ashes and then also i think it's all i think it's in several places in the old testament and i think that when one is wearing sat cloth and ashes there there it was a stupid way that it wasn't the right usage because it's usually your repenting for some you're not gonna hear your did i'm wearing a higher shirt in the bible don't know when

usually when somebody's wearing set cloth and put nash on their faces there also gnashing their teeth that seem to be my boy is a four year old ivo ulama does i think nipple piercing just got replaced by air cloth and ngos in order to scorn you tell the the yeah so as i got ass you have alarm assured on right now so we gave me this tight on middle says wikipedia fact number fifty eight thousand eight hundred and one lamas like to wrestle yeah yeah yeah you like that shirt i dunno okay go so why haven't they do like although oh they do oh my god i was just being stupid you know oh they like to wrestle yeah sometimes i go out in my pasture and break it up cause i'm afraid one of them is going to get hurt

really what does the dad was worse its thick farm well doktor and the armrests it was a typo but no no it was him and he he was he was interesting though that is about to happen yeah something from me and i said well i'll arm wrestle you for it and i think i said farm wrestling yeah or bar wrestle area today or play with your bow and arrow yeah so i

i was shooting out of my house this winter because it was bitter cold you know and i but i wanted to kind of keep up on the shooting a little bit soy opel was opening up the window and shooting out the window and i went out to fetch my arrows and i had an idea was out there like me i cannot see my pins very good inside the house so i went out into the garage and got to got my headlamp and was zip tied to my sight pin and then i got back in his you know that things will little bright no so i was you know i was like there's a lot going on and i i frickin forgot that i had closed the window yeah when did you hit the target i never found a it's me

i can even realise what happened what sounded strange this brain region i have got here nor quick thing us very arena book or randal you'll appreciate this i shall address the old regime of real house recently asking you about the historian belly well knows enjoying his book so much is a collection of his essays one which is an essay that really counters the idea that lewis and clark had discovered the european perspective had discovered the like that planes right and he goes on its way at the time of lewis and clark journey there were indians on the great plains who had been to europe met the king of france

returned home at the time the lewis and clark extradition so you forward me that story a long time ago i know why one got the book that that piece podcast listener that sent that that essay in and i went and got them a book and then i was trying to and i wanted to get the dope on elliott west so i asked randle what elliott west's reputation was and he told me about elliott west reputation then i get the book and i'm reading enters a piece about the difficult job over his torreon to uncover the unheard voices in history meaning that we follow a girl lewis and clark right and we know all these monument of things but like the deed sales of people's lives and people they weren't spoken for right people whose recollections are lightly he talks about the paucity of of account

from chinese immigrants who worked in the mines right there does they didn't leave a written history so now the you try like fine is forgotten places an energy some of this guy and his brother that are going out to the california gold rush nearly the east coast going the california gold rush by boat presently going all the way around patagonia the time and who know panama canal great brother dies on the way through two brothers there is broad dies on the way and he gets a barrel of brandy in packs his brother into a barrel of brandy the dead body packs into a barrel of brandy give the california in two harry his brother at home promptly sent through overland journey with the bear the brother packed in a barrel of brandy to bring them back home again he so ten on bring his brother home what why

was an easier to do that and then if you opted to do the ocean ones we have a bunch of stuff with him he doesn't explain that and i haven't dug into the footnotes to find where he pulled that story from by don't understand why i was like let's go this way wait maybe they were moving a bunch of baby they're moving staff and he left the stuff and it was quicker to pack them and brain just wanted to change of scenery yep i work and i want to touch on record guy wrote and he's fishing and his brother hooks into their fishing on the east coast where the fish in the commissioner made

and his brother hooks into a big fish i know all appreciate this yeah yeah hooks in to a fourteen foot blue shark and they're just fighting it for the fun of it code and it's a strenuous fish fight let the shot go couple of days later he develops this horrible pain in his chest can't figure out what it is thinks he pulled a muscle camper out but it gets worse and worse pain goes to a doctor and he's got this tumor that he didn't know about and would have killed him in somehow isn't that fish aggravated tweak something in that tumor pressed up against a nerve and alerted him to the presence of that tumor and they removed the tumor now is fine moral of the story go fishing your fish more with your brother

finally here's here's one last one before we start or forget some of one guy takes dads her gun is dead sentimental type takes his dad jan they his dad gets a turkey and he gives the kid the fan because he wants a fan mounted the guy's dog destroys it i think his dog destroys it wife's dog oh all the story why star destroy what we like what's the difference between your dog and your wife's dart all i think it's just the same as in offering a deal you devote its days if you try to tuna to your girlfriend's car no more overruns dog no one says my way i guess they do we say look at a point we have two dogs

dog is the goat one of my wife's dogs bad and he's like the wife's dog my wife she decided to get it when we started dating and and you don't you've never acted like it was your our dogs know i mean it's it's our dog but it's her dog she said we're in we're living together and she said i want you to know i put positive chuchula puppy so if we're going to keep going with this thing we need to move into a pet friendly apartment and you do you wanna go looking for apartments with me or not and so she made a decision on our own you mean about you're gonna move whether you dinner yeah she's like she's like you wanted you wanna keep thing rolling for another years lease we need to go find pet friendly apartment but she she put a deposit puppy and did that on our own and misery only seven years old in these terrible and then they do

he's just ease to these should i'm all now is now hold on mars dark a big difference between year die on your lap dog go on random now this is too much uses piper is a hundred pound lab and black people are overwhelmed by and we actually had someone come over for dinner and they hadn't seen him in about a year and they said oh wow you know you guys are great most people i know wouldn't have kept that dog up no joke and when i mean we looked at each other like really know very many people that would get rid of a dog just send him on his way but there we got that from some new cap that thing around in our so but then read

we'll get married we get a second dog and i got to pick that one and she's perfect she's an angel measured rosy without his name that's a good name you know the only thing i have to get our good god the only thing i the compare that too is when i was younger than when we would get one of my siblings or i would get in trouble it seemed like the one the parent who pointing that out to the other parent they would say your son did this new workers their seeing that behavior i would guess be married him kids their seeing that that behave was results of your influences

well they said that they're saying like because of you whether what they're saying is because of you your son the parts of our child that are that ot you are responsible for x yeah can i get it back this thing is mas dog eats it he then his mom and dad must be divorced so he's my dog ether is mars dog eat you follow me yeah moment my mom and gay still i write a car allowing why but of you my dog dogs probably losses so just think of the childhood years or i'll make a flow diagram a guy is a guy we'll call him the kid he takes all man turned as always use turkey the kid and the old man's turkey fan his job as to mount the turkey fan as a gift to the old man he then take

to his moms house to store it them dog if they are divorced is because the moms dog is still write out for vengeance eats a turkey van he then goes and gets a different turkey fan miles that gives to the old man and never tells the old man the truth so the old man we come over his house he stuck in an awkward position of point on the wall and be like see that an end about what happened when in fact it's a lie the harbour the omens not stuck in their position because he doesn't know he doesn't know the guy is like in that immoral like i just needed a cap and i'd say it's immoral i think it's and the peace peace between the the parents divorce parents ideology net into i don't know o under gsm if the case though i agree with you if there really is

keeping the peace fund there was a part of it i feel acuity said that it was a part of like that is folks were divorced and now the mai who knows maybe around our eyes think he felt bad yeah it's not like he's trying to like preserve some little semblance of you some little semblance of family no dignity this left after this tumultuous divorcee these that lay and all that level of trouble it all comes down to whether he can live with his little white lie or not i think that is immoral and i would tell the old man really you remember the pre innocuous do why well let me tell you a lot let me tell you something that happened to me and you'll know all the it is probably has something to do with some so we're little real little daddy's take us like you could go fishing on your birthday here is my

i just like i don't remember the like you'd off and get the you'd get the play hook if you wanted an iceberg new birth glad of i a rebirth or whatever it didn't activities he took me out and a guy caught a big northern not ought not our party is me and dad i think alcoholic was with us and a guy people know who that is now you re introduced in before it's a great name while navy now alcohol but you held you have such a thirst he developed such a thirst during his outings that he often way to get home another guy catch the poor a pike he is the one dead was wants it so dead takes it in full zob like how they do in my

says to me hey and throws it to me and i could ah he says it's called a pike and i later old ran spring was a commercial bait fishermen ran spring made a living catching wiggers and digging worms and catch minerals i told in spring i caught a twenty seven inch pipe i don't i don't know if a if it's a good use of our time to do it postmortem on those two lies but that one yeah that seems far worse i'm putting myself yeah that's real bad but i'm putting myself in the role not of the dead and put myself in the role of son where he's living with a lie right but there's the whole bit that the that the dad actually did get a turkey and it's just you know

you didn't get shit now and then you maybe not i put myself in the role that i put myself in the world like a guy or do anything to come clean and be like look here's a deal this is what it is what happened let's go get another turkey next spring what our reduces record this and send it to him or let him put together or or tom after you get similar turkey because may you won't get me like you know pops you'll love will appreciate yeah i was gonna onward fix it all about or not one womanizing rain windsor just minus his pituitary gland yes how's it feel are you smart as it used to be no i'm not really categorically not now really tell me more

lot of issues with memory in short term and long term memory yeah oh i didn't know i was joking when i said oh we can cut this out nuts even feeling you've been since then it's been it's been a pretty it's been a pretty rough road just ups and downs but the effort i mean i had a lot of symptoms were pretty similar to like a traumatic brain injury really i wasn't worth now the bad that i asked you know i'm pretty up front about it are you i gotta get own replacement yeah i'm on but different hormone replacement like testosterone sire hormone and i take hydrocortisone which replaces cortisone and then i've got stimuli since i've got antidepressants i've got sleeping pills i get the whole

are you serious though you ve gotta a blunt the spread and growth hormone so every morning i'm like bury bonds real it's real deal well i mean i knew there was a big deal but i know that you really i didn't know there's that much to it yeah it's been a pretty serious it's been a a pretty serious struggle but better than the alternate i'm all good yeah you're on the right side of the grill he did get a big bear i did yeah i got a big bear and still hunting still will you i don't know that's true men in the general i have tags for this now yard and now you're gonna throw now it has been pretty crazy i start new job

run a time and i had to postpone the start of that job for about a month why went to california got surgery in yeah so it's been learn a lot about the in body and a lot about myself and yeah i didn't mean to make this a serious no i guess what happened is you be so casual about it was like effective yeah at least in the way you're putting it for you we're putting it forward to your friends that you seem casual about it more casual than it is now i mean i've been i mean i haven't i haven't held any secrets but i haven't really broadcast a whole lot of this stuff philip put any that on social media or anything like that but gonna harder is a little bit worse than that well yeah no i mean it's some of the anthems like i can't hide sometimes for one

there are crying all the time just have very little control over my emotions and all that stuff so joshua movies more now i've always been acquired the cinema so that that hasn't changed much but yeah it's pretty crazy all these chemicals and processes in your body and gonna take for granted that at all works but we're figuring figured it out and luckily have had a lot help at that so yeah off no type of salt i hear you still come at the doctors after seattle has indeed taken notes got but if you're the dollars i was another do we come here a minute and you the same set of questions ocean

i didn't have a co pay when i like i was like i say that other person that measures they remembered no i mean it's a yeah i mean just to sum up it's been tough but it's all good more figured it out down yeah yeah later i'll ask you prevailing else we can do to help i don't think so back when you had your pituitary going you all the people here so the reason what what one of the common now he's on transit one of the commonalities that binds a friend randal whims and during burnham abroad or may or knows they were all participants for good and bad in the documentary film that we recently released called stars in the sky and we're gonna we monitor

well there's a little bit and do you know about the the making of and aftermath of and the themes that we explore in the movie the movie you if you wanna go watch this net that's it is really about there's a writer ian frazier and he always says that he's written a lot of books and he says he likes the very cleanly and in the beginning of his books tell people what a book was about so he begins a book with the line this is a book about indians he wants people know what they're getting into so yeah the goal this year is that you will go watch this movie tumblr to watch a movie and you're gonna do no video yet artisan amy i it's called stars in the sky a hunting story both website thousands guy film

and it brings you to vimeo and you've gotta pay some money but it's like really helpful to us if you do you gotta pay some money that you can stream it and download it super helpful if you do we started the film like it's the council is such a weird story out works we start the film remember that's how i met prodi who now works with us when film the first bit of the film was several summers ago shift ease in the film and she's five while thou well there was no more than five years ago i see but we but that was that when we started making o start started making several farmers are going to fill me first no thing we're after me fill me in fifteen or sixteen we that longer my he's right after we had the first podcast which witches june of in fifteen year and we had already april twenty fifty we had already film parts with them because the first

gonna do we knew we're gonna do we the cotonou we were ready to things going into it gimme this exploration of sore the mindset in conflicts and contradictions and loves and hates and worries enjoys of contemporary american hunters and i felt that we are working on it we felt that to do this the kind of show like what a hunting trip look like this to demonstrate the people what it could be and how it can feel smell and look and so the first we did in the movie was we went recorded we wouldn't filmed a hunt film a hot in alaska first sick a black till there and it was met the in some ways if you watch mediator meat eater the tv show you gonna get you

you can almost five imagine what this hunt might be those that structure very differently but just like can like through line starts with someone leaving leaving a building in striking into the woods and ends of someone come back to a building and what i thought when i when i mapped out in the movie like the things i wanted to talk about the thing the themes i wanted to explore and ask various hunters from around the country there impressions of him i realise that all these topics were things it could pretty easily spring off of persuasions that one might have thought that one might have or spring off actions and things that could happen on a haunts is through line of this hunt wines that being ones are presenting these conversations starters and later over the

wanna being over the years as we were able to do it we interviewed a great many people from all around the country and asked them their party other thoughts missus kendall where some of the contradictions came into place their particular thoughts these themes and issues that come up and then assembled this thing like a like a documentary film and an added voice and want to bring in his it's i don't know i want to get him on an voice they brought in as a philosopher in an animal rights ethicist name robert jones and he's a steady line is being someone who's not connected to hunting actually adversarial turning like opposes hunting outright and he also speaks about these differently seems we do we want to interview in turn

had that he's deadlier he's having a star of i that noise not very credible he really add a lot you knows a very smart move eyeing on your part on directing that but i mean to have both you it's you know everybody that i like man getting he had him in there you know what are you guys get from people is yours get people we call this a lot only like deal that people get angry when you give someone a voice think that giving someone a voice in media the giving one a voice is tacit approval of what that person has to say that you by giving someone a voice you endorse what they have to say

i hear about it a little bit for his inclusion in the movie but why would you give voice to him and then when we had raw bishop on them guess who brought it looks like we have a pretty consistent approach public lands like like you know as a company when we have a pretty consistent pro public lands philosophy and rob bishop is i don't we're com him anti public lands at all but he's it opposes a lot of the things i believe in around public lands management and people are like i can't believe you'd give rob bishop a voice like rob bishop is the chairman of the house nach was the chairman of the house natural resources committee i dont know that he's lacking a voice like it i went and found someone who had no way to meet the guy could talk to anyone wants anytime he wants in this animal rights guy is a professor at a school in california doesn't lack a voice but

they want to be in one want those problem i favour interviews that we did for that because it was so it was really challenging to refer to it was challenging the cat like we're sparring it was chow he brought up some really challenging ideas so far like richard enter our kelly hunted would you have emma figure is really good question like it no one what we now know about our kelly if we're doing a film you know i probably wouldn't i probably wouldn't because what he's most known for which is sex abuse of minors

the case our kelly what is most known for isn't what i would be asking about it was so peripheral to the conversation that that aspect of their personality or that aspect of thereby dominate would be this this like really eighty thing in the room there we just sit down to the interview with we didn't bo jackson about his relationship with hunting and as part of that you can imagine that we talk a lot about his career as an athlete because it was sorely this this like weird thing to have not come up with the elephant in the room yeah and so in that case i see like this good devil's advocating but in that way i was trying to put your spouse legitimately was legitimately curious oh yeah but but dollars

it was fascinating and his main thing is that that the paper try to get across near the watch because i like i kind of cherry rather like pickin moments where he didn't do great i picked a failure because they are either we working on it kind of picked his best points you know and he counter like he has really good counters four things where hunters of two hunters love how about its natural i owe man's always hunted we hunt we wouldn't be here its natural and he brings up there are a lot of things that are natural fratricide match aside rate that avoids occurred

that the its yet i ain't that mean that i would urge you to do that in of itself in an endorsement of the activities that it's not of indication of hunting that's always been done mean we ve always like in the grand in the thick from a historical historical perspective we ve always not driven cars so let me finish my fish my little preamble here then we're going to do a couple of things says jan he has a yanni has some he he's thought about how to audit discuss this and he's got a good idea for it but the preamble being that is had idea that it felt very cohesive let me talk to so many people and then you run into this problem where how is something then you in the end you have ninety minutes or so hundred minutes and you go through

the very very painful process of narrowing this down to where you have a hundred plus hours of interviews of people that you need to fit into one minutes and then you wind up with something where someone would watch it and not this isn't things things good or bad it is a fact of life some would watch it and never have enough have any idea what it was how you aimed in your head only makes sense right the framing it only makes sense to someone who felt that they were seeing like a process that they were trying to put it

place and when it's all done you can expect the people watch you go like all i see what you're doing you know cause so much falls away like when we started to show that you listening to right now i have like a precise idea of what i was trying to do one has ever written and said i see what you did there it is their lives in your head only you know but the the guiding through line as is these these these themes and we're gonna ask you guys look about you you're feeling but these themes and in thoughts that you might have had an enigma till i kind of like what you meant and what represented in the movie or if thing that you wish you said and hand said anne then one star with with matt and in the

this was like in there also to the end i don't think it's in there is not in their there was the ending for a long time for a long time the ending of the movie almost the ending of the movie was you saying if you woke me up a hundred years from now the how many years it's a game i think so if you woke me up honey years from now and told me there was no hunting i wouldn't be surprised and i wouldn't care i remember saying that but i i guess

well the ice shelf ice guy still rings true you were saying i don't believe in hunting for hunting sake i'm just stuck being this yeah yeah i don't i don't think that i don't think that hunting makes someone a better person and if you want somebody be a better person there's better other more constructive uses of their time it's like

advocate for something after that that's is going to carry on after i'm gone it wouldn't be hunting mean reading books may be you're volunteering you to have being a good civil servants is far more important to me than the future of hunting once i'm gone if i if i care about hunting at all after i'm gone it's because you know i i it's a i guess it'd be i'd have to be convinced and i partially am that it's it's good for wildlife conservation i guess there's part of me that wants to look down from the heavens

are wild animals around around still but yeah i don't i don't see hunting as making people better we're assembling the movie we took all of the people that we interviewed and asked them about their hopes and fears for the future everyone was release when talking about like a future every one of 'em except for individuals my two brothers were the only people to everyone we talk to her in some way worry about what would be lost through the people that i know that like it the most yeah i r i i just watch document for the first time a couple night to go and i do remember

like i'm proud of the way i described it that i'm i'm stuck being a hunter i would i mean i would just i'd have an identity crisis the forty eight years of age would be just kind of jarring if all of a sudden i stopped hunting you know i don't know what i would do or how i relate to what it might what would preoccupy my thoughts you know so i that's why i guess i haunt my kids recently i brought this up a couple of times a day but my kids recently asking about like why we had to go i think is ice fishing on a cold day and like why do we have to go ice fishing so cold i saw it while i can think of a bunch of reasons but one would be you'll get to hang out with

way cooler people to learn how to do this it it's all what i think when i think about like if someone says all its good in fifty years will be gone i wouldn't i would to have a hung it would like really make me said but of a lot of installed you must all differ like avert like the version of it that i experienced a man in the other people would experience yeah the others i mean so many of my positive memories of about hunting are about the people i hunt with i mean that is it's the it's doing these adventurous things with people who care about i like i don't like it is a means for meeting new people very much i just have this small group of

people that i hunt with if i'm going to make friends with somebody i don't want it to be like through hunting probably that's not a vehicle for for bring friendships for me really although like a lot of a lot of my closest friends i've met through hunting but i don't want it don't use it in that way you know like a five year at a wedding reception and someone look crossed the room and says i like i like the hautala you don't feel like a grab regional pay i wanna talk to you about it and then are targeting the davies is i mean it to study in the guise of only their diversity and show me all the big they got in a number of be jealous and the nominal wish that you would go they go away you know you can always down like when i met dog i m gonna through hunting and i could see the very good friends i own i just really think this out you know what i mean i don't want a conversation is gonna go wrong when you

like any other wedding reception and you go and talk to the guy's someone says like the hunt you'd be like oh yeah yeah which he has been where you've been hunting you're like oh yeah we've been getting a lot of turkeys use twelve gauge you all know that should be twentieth thing you oh yeah oh yeah i had a guy if it's not like oh wordy guys go either guy and the the ranch where my the my wife of and works dude ranch and other corner he likes to care now he likes to talk once in a while you set it up different year that ain't you beg you man i would now ask you thinking about ro the cultural despite kissing thing i just think you lay over station yeah yeah you're right you're absolutely right it would it could be devastating i don't know look at will cut it out

and although she listens to this look around no no no no you only color i i you keep this part a year really yeah woollen emily we didn't even say where i was really going with it nothing you say that we need to say this in a movie i love the line now i want to know more there was another there was another person differ in a different local and base there they said to me you say what we when the fire armor though with a weapon is the first thing that comes up it's just too bad sign of how to read relations gonna go and because i just think of weapons is something that

we used the slow down animals so that you can cook and eat them i don't give a fuck about that shit you know half the time i can't even remember what kale or my goddamn rifle so he says that were used to kill them and you i mean a goal over a fifty five barbara barbara barbara up to the door you know what i said a shotgun yeah yes it's a with bullets and then you say in the movie and i and i love it and people it's like the one line that people bring up that people like most in the movie and are in awe you really mean by a mean what you mean by it but you're saying you said if if you ve saved averages head legs

i don't want them to know yeah i think that so is it that you like the hundred things that have legs well i like to have things that are mo tile i also know i'll also use that word mean that they move not more while mona well yeah i think is a motorway saying the same thing that there's well you know what i want an animal doesn't move is organism doesn't move is cecil cecil as a lawyer i cable emotion and i like i liked to gather cecil organisms gathered some horsemen from your day i've been doing a wild asparagus kickin ass was spent really really good my peace by instinct in everyday that's good you tell people hardship on find a wild asparagus you taught me oh ah you about it

i've and down the river in your boat at full tilt you look for last year stems do you have it in wisconsin it's a spinal injury what is there to be heard a mug ditches is a pre pre abundant there if you where to go you know that your riverboat isn't fast but you've i've seen you spotted at full tilt oh yeah and you know i i can also spot green new stems at full tilt really yeah you kind of get a search image burning to tell about the tone but last year's growth this is a hot to gear so you look for last year's stocks as you know and it puts off a branch a pervert

yeah perfect ninety perfect perpendicular here the war the branch with the stem creates to perfect forty five degree angles and that's key because there's a lot of other plants that superficially look like the dead stems look superficially was the way that branch comes off that stem you could square a house with some bitch may i've been fine some like i don't know why but seems like at the tail end of the season they get fat and i've been find some fucking court pounders lately figure out the silver dollar like real stake knife is just as good and that's interesting and i realise that is i got some those groaned garden from dogs why the easiest way to find a z to actually propagated and

she first over in that part of my garden look all right yeah was she from boston i'm out i'm kind of like through those big old things because when you like i never buy barriers it looks like that and the stork as is grows the ground many a carrots stick yeah the means is unbelievable the difference like you said his tenderness tasty is the link it's all non native right yeah that's all ferris barrel house cats but fairly spared so if but their legs and hunt them too well i think that dan dodi was there that day and he asked me what is it about me that said potato that so i guess there seem to be like this all about

it's like i love the all kinds of food the vegetables i love it's just that required me all you gotta monday oh yeah that's that the product of hunting the food product of hunting just so happens to be meat but if if cabbages ran around in the woods i would friggin love to go haunt me a cabbage you don't like now they won't do illegally in restaurants like the rest of us you dont relish buying meet well with one exception my it just so happens that my three favorite foods are ah m conventionally raised meat products donaghmore hoddan baloney no chicken wings with ranch chicken wings with blue cheese and chicken wings are my three favorite foods well that changed

because you're all favorite food was pizza and your second no your favorite with hot wings your sex favorite food was pizza yeah in one day this is a big deal is a big moment like the story one day going to a restaurant and they had hot wing pizza which was not good and you ordered it and was surprised that it was a good idea and it really like shook yeah i remember how delighted you were it was like the first one i dont think when neither was there and we were in ennis maybe and we went to some random you know as strong as those are the first year was open pile last year was open and you looked at the menu and you're like this is my kind of place is like pizza dogs we wanted everything in one of everything and is happy is can we d do look i do like the bar food

recent in another thing i really like i just gotta say stop talking so much i really like i'm asking you questions right now i really like i'm working around on the way you don't deal poker i'm going to doin ok i like some thin slice turkey and wonder bread with a bunch of mayo and cranberry sauce like thanksgiving left over as a favor food self you expressed like you don't relish buying me i'll buy i dont by media because it's a village in reality is like a bar fits it's it's a major tree and my wife but you can buy wife ways probably a hundred and what do you think fifteen thirty pounds issues

third very summer mila heats as much food or more food than i am i do it i'm not exaggerate net woman can freakin monster truck some chicken wings yeah and so it's kind of like something we do together yeah so what i'm gonna hear here around go with us by me no i don't buy me except when i go to a restaurant yeah and a lot of that like it comes from a couple of places i think and he expresses and i'm sure you're like i'm sure your feelings about it evolved and changed over the years because all of our feelings evolve and change over the years did you are naturally very frugal person would never be they will why would i buy something when i have like an approximation of it

my freeze and you know like ensures more convenient that it's all ready to roll and thought out but you ll go home and thought help me out new microwave right in either because your frugal also a little bit of ethics mixed in their there's some ethics and there's also another dimension that i tried to explain when i was interviewed the documentary didn't make the cotton i can see why because i wasn't very clear and i pray won't be now either but there's this child like it's from childhood this where this feeling emerged wasn't childhood for me this giddy sense of getting something from free to eat from nature and

there is an abiding component of what drives me to hunt and gather is in fish is that what that giddy feeling of like you doing yourself and getting your food from nature for free like now it's like it's like a thing that i've been thinking box we've been eaten lot of morels from dogs farm that he picked morels are good or the good yeah they're not that good they're not that good great but people's enthusiasm for listen listen billion chicken wings where i know its not get no more morales you meet me i love you really like we're ok i like morals love morals but peoples and people look for and fine morales heaven who is the s m

exceeds the flavour of the moral yeah it's it s like it's not like they're like do come may mean a shitload of morals weather biome or not that's not true but the hunt morales if all of a sudden there was a drought and no morals came up is that i think will be driving around calling to stores fine morels they have to have morals the morals great cause you find sons bitches grown out the dirt yeah yeah i and the great and the gray and their great i rode away i like you can't onto you can't untangle you can't disconnect the two near our what i did in a deep dive on mushrooms for a number you it's three or four years when you were like really infatuated learning a lot of different speed you got to where you knew more about mushrooms than anyone i knew and i remember learning that they have

no calories and that was very disappointing to me like adding it elite so this isn't like getting a food item anymore although they're minerals marie read and have protein in them oh really hmm that's interesting place your tastes like they were they taste like frickin meat man when you put a little forget flower ottoman brown him in a bunch of butter oh my good do you see what i'm saying dog is numerals man ok what's unless he has done was less than me bottom rural i have never bottom and i ve never sold morale either i have given a lot of em away and i agree completely with what saying about the

the fascination with going out there and i mean i was so frustrated this spring because i'm looking and i'm looking at you know i'm going out almost daily because the conditions are right and i've got great spots in my wife and i were out looking for him and and we we came round and we had taken a pretty good hike and and poof ironically found this big batch that that you saw and then you got some of right if the barn i mean with the one hundred and fifty yards from the house and i had left that tree alone but we came around there and it's just this fascinating sort of magical thing to come there and see this little village of of these we feel it really only houses you know and you will soon and then you look away for a second and you look back ok

i know it was one there where did it go and we we spent mission i spent an hour and a half their pickin morales and just keep looking and you know and in truth said we picked a hundred twenty five or one hundred and seventy five morel sarah and she said thank you for every one that she got she then the earth have well enough i mean there's is the magic of it it is mere you can take them very that's never seen her i'll never eaten immoral out more hoddan and they'll get that yeah like that about it those things too like that that makes an extra special is that you can't farm re wrote some wild bottom otherwise if people get excited about the asparagus bar you can go to by him but so does i could find it they can buy you can grow led defy cultivation i think that i think that when you see

girls wild grown on that you can have the ambiguity of the u cost effectively but i think the i've i i know that you can these little parts where you waterman europe understand is no one's figured out a way to like make money call ready rules some of you relationship which is like the meat right any type of honey is like the meat because hunt cabbages right but then you have some passion land at your house and you guys raise up union bodies raise up some lambs we for while you and then you know you'd go out and have the dispatch say the lamb and you didn't like that hated it no i'm not relish let those like i was doing a limited ok let me label more part on the opening up of the whole experience if you dont like that now how to read it and then

but then you really enjoy the lamy so that connect the two hunting is that is different from hunting is pickin asparagus you know i mean like like what is that in the movie we see your place in your color little livestock area there yeah so that the reason she rose you never some friends that they honolulu but not lot and they got young families and they were using the meat and i would take a little bit of it but it was more to encourage them to spend time at my house and just like something to do with my community of people you know my friends and i think that when a killer animal hunting it's like it's it's usually after a tremendous amount of work so the feeling of accomplishment cannot kind offsets

isn't this a little bit you know kind of overrides a little bit because there's so much work involved in finally getting something but when you kill domestic animals just the sadness with all that other component to it does that make any sense you are puzzler whether because people are you to kill but then when you go to like the maybe some don't but anyone that i have that works and livestock but i know they might really of the han i never met anyone who's real excited to go out shoot the pig right right yeah i like hunting right up till the point where i pull the trigger and then i stop liking it until the point where the animal is starting to become me oh really yeah huh dollar that that inner if you're tracking

something i have to finish something off as two nerve racking in and sad erosion lifeguard awesome i know the sadness relax real i've seen so many people cry but then be we are glad that they did it but i don't know people talk about it and i feel like i've even paid some lip service to it but when i really think about it i'm really honest bothers not the sadness is only when it goes bad the only make a mistake then it's awful but now see sancho i am down to ground never sadness never only one is are we dug one of the themes mattress theme was mass conversational stainless meaning i asked you about all the thieves but you're perspectives are just interesting perspectives but dog is like partly

dogs role in the film is part of a theme ok did you feel manipulated by the movie not at all to manipulate i felt like i hope you weren't because i was home i was kind of hoping that that's who you were i mean you look now let me tell you away and let me tell you the way in which douglas seemed like dog to me now is doug it's doug it's doug absolutely but you were manipulated the manipulation occurred with what's said before your segment but said before your profile peace an overvalued trophy hunting the and the first sentence that saudi your mouth in the movie right which is not first sentence that came out of your mouth when we down anywhere you so there was a manipulation of what you said there's a manipulation of when you said it the amount of emphasis you might put on it

and then to have it be the first thing out of your mouth really sets the tease up a point and it starts out with the animal ethicist doug segment is kicked off by the the animal emphasis in animal rights activist who says the most egregious form of hunting i know he is robbing the up and then next sentence you here is dug saying yeah did you say yeah i guess i'm a trophy hunter or yeah i do i'm trophy hunting there was an era which look on let you go as well as one may elements that scene will bet there and then the movie tells the story of a particular dear and the way it would way i feel that it might have been taken by you to be slightly manipulative is it takes years

story and family story and the death of your brother to sort of serve this thing of distorting make this point that when you go into a person's house and you see it dead dear hanging on their warm without them you will never know you might have assumptions about what that thing represent and assumptions about what it stands for and what it supposed to mean and what is supposed to make you as the looker feel but you will never really know when you look at something dead on someone's wall is kind of what even like your story is so beautiful as a free state thing but it's kind of like it it's taken to service that point but gave us yet talk about a dead you're on a wall i know just a volunteer dogs

i didn't feel manipulated but by it at all and in fact i think before we even started to roll camera you said that you had been speaking with a fellow robert jones says new and white was my favorite he was my favorite person in the in film and everybody in this room but those gazeta but i mean well i i i liked the way he asked the questions or made the points and i couldn't disagree with his ideas and it was more the exploring of them that i was we arrested him and in the case of the of of that dear you are you before the cameras rolled you said so we were just talking to this animal ethicist and i told you this yeah ok and you said so he said the most egregious thing is

we hunting and in several websites there before the cameras role bar sit in the bar and you remember the deer hanging on the wall full of deer and all i saw was a bunch of trophies right there like you know what's the i and we didn't talk about those dear at all we talked about a particular dear and the story behind it and my interesting because one of the things my wife said about about the movie is that you are your man we were smitten because of the time it passed and not only was a younger man i was you know my my thinking tuesday and you were younger man your wife said you you are younger yeah she's noticed that it wasn't as great when she's feeling frisky after watch know and he said i don't remember exactly i watched it second time i got a memory you look at what i watched this

in time the other night with my daughter in chicago and that was really interesting thing to so how things have evolved for me since as we tell him as as them as you tell him anymore be my brother my yogurt my late brother matthew and i talked about dear management and it was conservation based their management but are really a part of it was you know you're sort of always been kiln where these little porkers you know the thing that we get a basket follow and ah and we had started talking about deer management things we could do better the u habitat work and all tat sort of thing and then and then he died tragically and i kept that

the idea alive and we i think we did a good job of of of conservation deer management and it sort of culminated in the fact that i i got the kill at your hand off it was as i said a movie was sort of remembrance of that of that whole process it wasn't like oh yeah we manipulated our landscape and we let all these let's go in and all these things happen and and and was now much more i mean the first thing i thought about when i killed that year it was him and and and what we had done and in how close it was to wear were that it all happened and it was really the remembrance of a whole a whole group of things are happening in over a period of time and and then it wasn't that import

i mean that the dearest is real important symbolically but what i ve learned soon says that or act on is that the conservation and was way more important than any of those restrictions were attitudes we had about not you shooting good here that's all gone now because the thing that's more important now is conserving me conserving resource and doing the right thing for the species and far down on that road you wanna go but because of where our farmers located that's it's a part of it and so to me it was just really tell me what you're talking about because there can be confusing know yeah i'm sorry but it brings up and it brings up an interesting point where you it's all all time like you know your eyes lebanese these sort of time stamps by things you say but then earlier mentioned to map evolve over time and in

the standing of yourself another saying things around you change and in each other you don't have a certain like things i feel consistently throughout life and i explain them away and then i start to realise that i know that the thing is there like but there are some like undeniable that there's some undeniable truth ok that they can be debated that is their like this is an objective reality that's their in and i feel that that that objective area these cars and through life and i'll look at that objective reality and i'll say to people you know why that's that way it's that way because and i'll explain why that way then ten years ago by the objective area is still there and i'll say

you know why i think it's that way it will be different in some people believe we used to think i'm just like yeah and i came up with a long time ago me like isis shit my diapers are used to dover site i use the shoe sit might diapers but things change became a conference about the devil's in the details of this its yeah used to shoot shipping i prefer to but things change that's how you and you may well ask those in come alive andrea so point being i wanted to say go what's that saying it's once again and twice a boy yeah that's good or what walks on four legs in the morning two legs in the afternoon

and three legs that's what you had to say that's what was the oedipus i think you're right when he adipose is deal was we talked with for the oedipus didn't steel was he was raised not by his actual parents but he didn't know that there were his parents to a soothsayer the suits their says the oedipus or you know what's gonna have new york your dad marry your mama but he doesn't nobody's he thinks he lives with his parents hollers right right he's let's take to to get away from his thing and then winds up in some crazy town and to get if the town you gotta answer a riddle and the answer to that riddle and the guy that gave the it we kill them and he goes the town given to finally i killed them mary the gale dead man that's where the riddle came from

what but what i was trying to get at with this there's the riddle he had itself not won't i guess it's your kids asked me own i've watched you your time stamp yes and in this movie more recent not then the digital age live forever in some form or another you're too i'm stamp is a guy like in arrested in girl ambiguous giant box because in your my like he's giant box or emblematic of like a healthy dear population and they wasting and in the movie ends and you really concerned about chronic way disease and it emerges that like a leading theory on the spread of chronic waiting diseases the dear most likely to go damn place on box and then you start you can't i have an attitude of trying to lower deer numbers in your that's the game agency objective two is the drive dear numbers down down down to slow the spread of chronic way disease so we made a movie about you

five years two years after we did right if things were suddenly different story except the so there you are saying stuff that you don't even believe anymore not true key value those things if the circumstances were still the same but the the what was the oedipus oh really good humour i appreciate this yeah now the the thing that's consistent throughout it and in unit i've had this conversation before and we've talked about it on the show and we talked up on podcasts we've had is that it's a park it's the conservation of of the area and a part of what we were doing in growing no bigger and older boxes and we're not gonna population com big huge giant bucks doug ah i really don't like them

suppression of in a more mature whatever where there was a part of all we ve got a population problem and that was expressing itself in are in our woods and and you know what we're through its over brows and we're trying to regenerate oaks and saw and were killed dear but we happen to be targeting those more and then i'm learning why can't really stockpile box it's not like you can turn the whole farm in the whole bunch box here consider we all those and then it's you know and then the others these interesting about big giant boxes once there be our malone's not an unusual not that's bashful anymore dear our special to me in the fascination of seeing them in woods but anyway so was conservation based in that has been the overriding theme

through my life that's what i meant by the objective reality that's what the phrase i was looking for that i couldn't remember the objective reality thinks the fixed thing the fix things conservation and so i dont think that the i've been accused well i guess in some it's negatively about yeah well you used to be the guy who's all about ray i think you killed you're a big bucker in i've been accused of that and in in bars and things like that in my response no it's just always been the same idea we're trying to do what's best and one of the by products of that was bigger bucks an older box and and so that was one of the things that happen of it and i felt like not only was the was the the standard as we came to we never named how white till guy's name dear when they see

when the cameron stuff when you don't know until they're dead we don't pay a lot but well in a friend of ours had said when he saw it he goes well that is the standard by which all deer in the future will be judged and so you know that was how that happened and and and and so that it's the part that made sense to me and and now that the resource because of chronic wasting disease has been is threatened high prevalence in our area i can't i have tried what's with the visualization now of sea hundred during the field in and realising that up to thirty five to forty of a hundred that hundred dearer carrier does a fatal diseases there we are also running around not in our area yet but south of us so i'm trying to do what i can for it so

the conservation ethic of it is is that overriding theme or that that continuum of it and in the the the fascination of of deer in the woods and the time in the woods is also the part of it that's been real consistent for me but jones brought up a lot of the questions that i and i never was offended by anything that the guy said or in i and i thought it was a fascinating guy because he talked about moral responsibility and and i and i feel that responsibility i think that all the folks i like to hang out with anyway and in hunt with stuff that they feel that responsibility for it to just like i feel possibility you're talking about the livestock

raising in regional areas catalan theirs i ever have mixed feelings about that but at the end of the day there is a risk i feel similarly i would never grow cattle in a way that that they are done on a large scale i just it's just not something that i would when i'm in a position where i'll have to because you dislike large scale because it's large scale you dislike what you assume comes with large scale or what you know what you know or to come with large scale what i know to take computer if you have if you have an experience if you create an experience that's the right word you create reality here and experience for your cows if you can what's the difference of you doing it that experience for twenty that experience for a thousand if it's how their raised you know one of the things that you brought up was that like the design

people now to know that their meat is humanely raised that their animals we won't like you sit on zan right it's not that it's large is not that the fact that large scale it's like what efficiencies come with large scale that you don't like or others well go ahead and your vault but there's probably an environmental component that's exactly right like if you have a lot if you're doing one thousand then you've got a lot of manure you're dealing with them a finite members caroline flaming i'm feeling operations buyer mentally problematic to say the least and when i was a kid when you drive around our area was and you guys have been there from here farm their farm there and and and sort of everything that was happening with like a milk jug man green hills red barn silos europe wide awake house and you know that the manoeuvre that was being

used on a firmer those kettle was pretty much going back very valid and our times that you gimme can wish i had more be right with you knows it was it was it was a wasn't a byproduct or waste product that you're getting rid of soldiers there ah there's the living on concrete a a coward astir whatever living it's if i were in an environment like that for me i mean i'm not going to judge other people that are doing it but for me i don't think that's morally responsible i raised grass fed beef i maybe do it in a way that i think about it time like am i doing this right am i treating them well is it environmentally sensitive and then robert jones would say well that's all great but in the end you kill it yeah he'd say let's take it one step further now do it at all let's finish let's finish it up well

ah beers or as they like no you're sort of saying i have to do it this is the best i can do he would islands the idea that you have to do it the us you sure would but i think that that idea what when he talked about think for instance while you we don't act on all of our instincts but we can act on our instincts and moral or morally responds the points point when i smell bacon i think may big really interesting to hear him say that yeah yeah i'm not take any of it are you you know you ask me about this last year that enforced in qatar for me you i loaded up a bunch of of six month old calves six months old steers and heifers last year some down the road and listen to their mothers beller in there

was a was a decision that i had made because of the catalan all that arm and it was i am literally changing how i'm raising cattle because i don't want to do that again hmm i'm just going to raise them differently and not have big groups of cattle like that when i take them through their life so that even when they do goddess and i really want to move towards being able to be a u s do you have a usb inspected mobile butcher come walk back into the barn walk them on their there and and they they do all the work right there because the inspections important me because i sell the the the beef but rather than even putting them on that truck to go to the locker where they then sir

well down spend the night and the next morning they die that's how we do it now but i can tell you this they have a great life up to that point just like the dearer on her farm do i and i and i and i try to balance that with you know with that that's that responsibility that i feel and i think that that as you said i think that's the best i can do quick story for you little digression i was at my friend on his house one time her dad's a vet but also a rancher and she had a bunch friends over including some vegetarians are over and they get there and they got this little this little corral right off their house and it's all the lambs are in the corral unless it was going on with the lambs you know and she makes liquor throat cotton gesture to me like this is a sensitive zone

considering the people she has over and while we're there hanging out or living room a truck backs in and the guy custom play is one shot j j she looks out j j gotta has twenty to set to work really sorry what were they think of that no one really like that but they saw the set all right then and there well i no one else view but it was just like you know yeah a guy one shot jds yeah yeah wonder what he's four and he had the whole he had his truck but then he also had his whole mobile area i've been real matter of fact about it in the past because i grew up with it you know with the

watering of animals and and and hunting all of that i think that's key and i think that that that's like what makes you realize that it's just its conway there's a lot of things a lot of sense a lot of a lot of tough issues that if you are is in order change of environments you'd come out thinking the same thing like we all agree that matter household were raised in the violent crime is bad that you know beating somebody up is bad there are people who are worse well yeah but nay i mean to on out they're often or level sociopath no social bad right but go on ninety nine per center there are people would agree that perpetrating violence against somebody is wrong but with hunting and or killed

animals whether you were great raised in like a vegetarian household or hunting how farming household has a huge bearing now what you end up thinking as an adult yeah i know that because i've heads i continue to have so much exposure to people who had such a very different upbringing and in the things that i think of as just very matter of fact or sometimes shocking to people yeah like look at our look at even people that have been exposed a lot to hunting and fishing i like my my wife you know she she been exposed to hunting and fishing on offer whole life shan ranchi and ranchi she doesn't hunt fish but she's been exposed to it she think it's deplorable that we don't kill pan fish i've talked with his on this year programme and are

to me that is just i was told us little kid that they don't feel stuff hold on and expand on that because not just that we don't kill so we catch the fish and we don't dismantle catch catfish and throw in the bottom of the boat she acts like you're driving around with the deer flopping around in the back of your truck yep where's you'd ever rabbit your game pouch kicking around back there and whereas exactly how severe and when i try to counter her my arguments are extremely thin like oh tat thing is feeling that now of which a law that is like this sort of thing and another for peterkins explored that narrative of of you're family farm in this like an beyond why that get in there in the movie not nice by next year the sort of ethos or this conservation ethic that perhaps is the last in some way

that is like a really is really a compelling beautiful and very tidy story doesn't tidy tidy package when you want to pluck out and so and to have been a movie that you like pluck this little package out in book ended with other people sentiments it has why the pet feeling like conclusive you know but then it ends and she goes on yeah and light the story continuously the story is continue that farm for hundred fifteen years and one of the interesting things to me is how in the arc of my i've time we went from few dear to more dear to now to too many dear and disease and at the same time

that's her if you just isolating the deer and at the same time we have this these other conservation issues on our honour property in our whole drifters area that all sort of inner wine together and so i see them as as a group of of issues that are intertwined together as opposed to you know people who are most interested in or in some cases solely interested in deer and deer only and i don't i don't know exactly how to wrap that all up real tidy but i think that with the kinds of themes that we're talking about the the the bigger ball

all in all of these things togethers is where i rest my rest my case in all of this that i'm not just caring for one thing you're trying to do one thing i'm trying to do in a lot of folk said i know tuna in really the people him by i personally respect most are trying to do up something that's much more a wider conservation based idea you then left leopold the whole community yeah yeah well from the soil our way up to the sky was is hidden coin biome recoil randal them he will know the air but some days regional alone but the land second that that everyone in leopold is my he's my hero

in ways that are not used to take out his recurred and take seventy art charts dear deceiving it hidden there's a book and here there's a later his worthy issue deceive you did there's a later booker his whether these hunting in new mexico with some friends isn't there's a lot of questions now it is one of you has raised him hunting now you can use a slot periodic sag way we will want to jump into the ethics thing you're talking about ethics while we talk about this idea of one of these we talk about one of the themes rattle off a handful themes and not touch on this quick but i want to go i want to get the randal too the patrick lineal passage of haunting we're yawning this idea and we do you know of conversations like

movies go their own direction yes the of bringing up a bunch of the themes that we explore in the movie and where this guy is going to throw them out and i'm going to give a handful of snapshots and then we're going to move into talking to a target and randall but yeah so we explore like patrilineal descent being that's all more like just but i'm not some other way things should be on some of the way they are ninety percent people who by hunting license in this country are men in most of those pick it up from their dad we talk about vat and then we talk about cases there aren't that in its sort of this chorus of characters talking about what like what it was that push them in this direction and oftentimes fine that the ones that most interesting are the ones that aren't just the same all same all which is like youngster down on it you and your dad on a yo yo your dad on you

because your dad ahmed randal now my dead and hunt burial thing we're on we're statistically skewed right now there should be nine of us there in one of you no no that's not true that's not no that's not that i'm mixing that up with the i'm mixing that up with the with the with the gender thing rattle off another one real quick gone hunters pr problem the way in the movie we get in do try to explore this idea of way a hunter experiences there actions and activities in the way those actions and activities look to people who are not that we are seeing this that there's a really good because leaden red milan kundera condors book the unbearable lightness of being a good book

if the guy and his girlfriend in his novel and then she was from the soviet bloc and he's not and they talk about when they see a parade when they watch a parade what she thinks when she sees a parade and what he thinks when he sees a parade same thing but they conjures very different and very different emotions in them so we get into that little bit the question like why have ethics become so intertwined with today's hunt yeah meaning you know if you go back to the first people that the first siberian that came into the new world the western hemisphere was now the u s what was their moral that feel was an ethical conundrum was the sadness

there are other animals that are alive now on our planet there said when the wolf one at el fine bleeds out and dies is the war for doing it's got a bond imagine the fact that it like ancient man didn't have a choice major mitigating factor and if you look at you know when all export is fully at all but if you look at there was also like kind of a hallmark of indigenous hunter gatherer cultures and is something robert jones brings up and he winds up contradicting himself is not in the movie but some data released the whole interview you must have contradicting himself because he's ok with indigenous hunting yet his point is than animal doesn't care about you things that he can tell me like you you talk about ethics but animals don't care about your ethics they're getting killed it your pain they die they don't care what kind of trip iran yet he expressed

me being okay with indigenous honours because it has religious connotations for them there was no has religious cut connotations you're contradict solving it maybe i feel something that's borders on the religious but it's a thing like people that are anti hunters oftentimes find these ways to make other things that they feel should be ok okay and the thing that's hard for them to explain is it's hard for them to be like well how why can indigenous people hunt because once they they can't this like colonialism where you wonder why then like how like brings it all way back around to what we're just talking about with leopold and like pope and young right there's plenty of stories of those boys going out on hunting trips with hundreds of arrows because they were known to fling at a distance is now leaving best archers think are long and far with today's equipment right in even in that short period of time what is that what we wanted popping young come around like if only the war was it was it that it could have been like re weirdly early too but i want us either

within the lads up within the last hundred years right so look where at the end getting ethics is common that short period of time or just some of the classic gun writers that lobbying well it's out there right taking shots with the yeah that's why we call yadda yadda yadda yadda because i love shots he loves us we call him johnny vans lol too but what are your carter go connor heat they'd like role about a group a big whores and as everyone in start shooting the golden guys we want before is also i mean this is actually and young was young was badly now now really yeah but that's the that's when it became an official club popping young cells i think we're doing things prior to that but the poor beyond club

came back student in art right think so yak as boon and crocker club was early eighteen eighty randal is so that the my doing justice jani and on the themes the point i to randal though since we got him here yet boys exposure hutton together just a rapid all up nineteen eleven twelve and in those years i hope they like each other they like each other there like not on a dog now there does together you know randal if you like a one to ten if you had a sliding scale of one to ten and you had to rate our job capturing what you had to say on a one to ten where are we for five where like when you watched it like what was your level of disappointment

i was thrilled you're thrill beer you are too y know i mean we have to talk to you a lot here we did one interview that is probably like three and a half hours and one that is probably too something so known to release all these as this is a giant transcription likely i'm worried about you know like i i walked away each one of these interviews feeling kind of punch drunk like did i really say that that way or did i get it backwards or that i foot that new did actually get across what i was trying to say and when i press play on the document for the first time my hope was that i would just make sense and then i wouldn't say something that was categorically false or outrageous and i thought i that i came out pretty good can you tell people what it is you did that first put you on our radar

so i did do a phd in history at the university of montana and my dissertation was a study of hunting in american politics and culture in basically the second half of the twentieth century called green voters gun voters hunting in american politics and culture in the town century i think i'm gonna give you only when we know that that was the tile back in the day yeah it's not published he's herbicide it's our power i started working as an editor after that and at the end of the day i just wanted to put away the computer and not look at another word document so i never kind of picked it back up and did you or the day that you get you a little piece of paper says phd

i did i did and i i just realized the other day i have no idea where that is lawrence as i was looking at my wife's degree on the wall and i was like man i don't really know where that but no one no one said to prove it you had to go and you've had to go get it now i have a phd how would i have this i have two phds in illinois where one is the one pretty huge don't tell this joke gone randall it's not going to get caught no because you know you didn't tell the joke is good i was actually going to alert randall to check in with you about your joke later use that line on me in the first podcast i think that's

i i learn that from a girl i was dating achieve learned on the tv show friends there right well i know that the friends was like gay man i had a girlfriend that show colombia so basically i do as research i just looked at hunting and fishing magazines over the course of like sixty some odd years and looked at public representations of hunting and cunning where it popped up and the news or and other forms of popular culture when sesame street in the seventies and eighties something on hunting what does it look like or power hunter represented in loony tune things like that so just basically tried to digest this huge volume and material and think about

how hunters have represented themselves over time and what others have thought of hunters and the and the dialectic between those two things and how that's evolved in this period in which hunting place in popular culture has really changed a lot have you ever seen that cartoon where it's like it's not part of looney tunes or anything but it used to be on like saturday what's while words like deer hunting and light it will soon each other and sovereignty from the fifty four and if it isn't like one of them is in embedded like add for them they're in law deer hunting suit and it's like she puts it on its own dear sue so she get shot and and a guy in this in cartoon a guy shoots of bark says to his body i got one has got antlers like this and he gets his head in his hands to show the errors and his friend suits him

and this one you out all the leone led up but it ends up with like the deer driving the car and he strapped to the bumper is hundred seen that i haven't seen that no and i i said before sesame street what i'm thinking of i think it's the muppets and there's like a scene in the muppets and that i came across where that buffalo springfield song like an internationally binding energy livid memories of the outcome some of these animals are walking through the forest and there is there an whenever it set up they start shooting i yeah and they're they're like these these hunters are creep into the woods looking for the animals and dear and it's like a protest anthems it has the band that's van that's named after a yeah i thought about that my buffalo boat buffalo springfield and what their name what that names all about

teach my kids to recognise anti hunting bias in the things that they look there all my my boys my boys good at picking it up and we talk in children's literature it is almost i want to say daily but weekly i bet i got i got to dislike start and ok girls let's just think about what this book just said really go through it in and dissected because no a wild animals don't need our help and you don't have to put food on the window sill so that the birds will continue live what in the world that's why you gotta reader kids light in the forest hatchet my side of the mountain possum there's plenty of sell their man the word anti i show is on one of the worst aunt i hope shows wildcats haven't seen that show dies you we will do so what's this on this on a sliding scale all of your complex ideas we kind of mostly just head you be

a little bit of demographics guy and a little bit of a roosevelt guy yeah i was fine that really i felt there so many people are is its funding because so many people that i feel like in writing and no one else gettin in do you know i didn't know how hard it was going to look at in this new want to capture like we're gonna go capture tons of stuff and then i knew the all watched hundreds and hundreds hundreds movies i know how long they are and i didn't put those two things together like i didn't i didn't think about i wasn't thinking about and i was thinking about it i wasn't thinking it's going to be like that and burns a civil war or somewhere but i wasn't there i knew i was gonna wanna be it can be like a like a ninety minute whatever right and i was picture and so i want to do another one sunday

i wasn't imagining what would happen to all of these ideas here not only that like that you you didn't like simplify things and pear it down for a couple reasons so the view could understand and you also have the sense of allegiance to the subject and you like can't have the subjects say ten things incompletely the fine they're just going to have to say two things in a way that makes sense yeah no rather little latin them right sound bites about turn the servers i discover that girl like you gonna do the downward or some things and then the problem with like with and and there's somebody friends of mine in it you know guns in it robert abernathy isn't it i don't point like i want to from their problems only my head because are not problems for some of the watson

the film i really want to watch folks i do i look like i want you to see an experience so there's the thing we keep em all of these things like ways you perceive and there's the thing in the thing as a free standing entity is something i want people to see but i can't watch it without all the the noise in my head and part of the noise my head is like i had these free we have really interesting experience like mike matt who's sitting here has very refreshing like everything automatic mouth is delights me like everything he says delights me likewise so i dug you know like dogs like this generous beautiful person was kind of this like way to express the explain his life in the way this very moving and instructive right in you this like really cohesive view of something that's really complicated and like a real knack for sort of explaining this activity

that is so influenced by history and influenced by demographics and sort of like making it seem like a picture you know like like presenting it and and i'm friends with you guys and so then put you there i'm also like why want them to look like what i see when i see them it's just it's complicated man oh yeah i'm a kind of haunted by the haunted by the process well i think that's a good one so i'm glad to be sitting here talking because i want to make sure we're cool yeah know this also goes out as an apology to all those other people that didn't make the cut while i know i mean i what you're saying resonates with me because when i worked on my dissertation you telling a story and you're trying to explain something through the storytelling process you have to choose a beginning and an end in an arc to it and you can't compressed everything in there and so that's like when i go back and look at

dissertation i remember all the things that started to become threads that i want to weave into this and i had to i had to come and i have no boxes in boxes of photocopies and notes and things like that that have been travelling around me a couple years and they're all little things that i wanted to cram into that because when i read what i wrote i think like man it's it's more complex than that there are several other layers that i need to to weave into this thing and that's what i mean i think especially with it i'm lucky because i didn't have a page limit but when you're making it memory film obviously there's that window of time that you have to fit it into it doesn't matter how good the stuff you get is you have to make those really really tough choices yoda criticism we

early on about the movie which i would fellow when a compliment but his eyes issued as a criticism is it doesn't come too hard enough on anything it feels to open ended in hours one be like that's great yeah no i mean i i if people wanted to be like a more like a like a michael moore kind of thing i try not to surround myself with people who come down hard on stuff like there's what's the point you know and to the point earlier about having this animal ethicist as a leading figure in the documentary like having an open exchange of ideas and questioning your own ideas and reflecting on what you really think you're what you really believe or what values you have like if you just are in an echo chamber and you're talking about

people on the outside or you're talking about how great the people in this room are what are you really doing yeah you know it's not a real serious intellectual exercise insight yeah and you could have made a movie of people saying dude if you don't kill all the you will get overrun yes and i think like one other thing too is like can it's really easy to like write a book review or a movie review and and slam it like and this is something that at least in graduate school you could recognize people are starting to write book reviews they just trash everything or it's the greatest thing they've ever read but it takes you know it takes it takes a lot more effort to to pick something apart and ask questions of it and go and revisiting chew on it and that ultimately generates more quest

yeah a lonely here like a film reviewed on npr you like i can't tell you like now that you might not want to bore his listeners with weather like it or not i don't always among them like well this is his job we liked it opera i might be more inclined to see your guy always to be thought provoking i think he succeeded their anger we can agree on that right that's for sure it's it's it's nice to see something like hunting is you're saying is often portrayed as this cartoonish active and you're either the hero or year the villain and that's not the reality of it and so to see this like nuanced exploration of what we are doing and why we do it and why we think we do it why we may actually do it

i found that refreshing it'd either interesting things like here what out ten people from various walks of life that don't hunt what did what do they think change in their perception upon us are you gonna make on if you could take people who were ambivalent or how style to hunting and somehow force them to watch it and into a post interview yeah i could set that up i haven't done it yet but to be interesting do it we should look at me do sure and you know why funny to hear now may well taking over out i've been interested here but now that i don't think you're allowed we the reason that i would do you know began you are you're cease full circle right you must you would like his eyes you allow me to get it to do a concluding question do absolutely question must be based on false

yep member how earlier i mention in frazier what does anybody infringe earlier he starts as books was he likes to tell people right away in his books about their power because it makes people start reading the book they want to know what they don't want to wait to find out what it's about he also told me this when he's right he's a nonfiction writer and when he's writing these profiling people he'll get this feeling that the knock alike what he's writing in the eyes mitigate sat by giving a very flattering fist description of the forces as usually can does any harm like really i really like data you had say about our conversation to do that with you guys because it's a movie we can see just how wonderful

you all are by going to video and watching stars and sky holy cow did you see how see out there was that is that's the problem of that's why you do and as mrs picture with a little more grain is the doesn't match and see dog now does the mad at him when you look younger it may even be better if you just want to stars in the sky film dot com and by their wash it there little more blood tony blair we very very accurately track your watching better and we can report numbers of people they give a shit and it would help us ourselves zella was cautious stars in the sky film dotcom utah me when you first started doing this that like really the end goal was to do it well enough so that you will be allowed to make another will that's the woody allen max yes but

as long as we're good enough they let me make another that would be like a measure of success so do no that now and or if not how i will would be until we know i'll make another movie on regular moving but my circumstances such there like it doesn't matter how to find a way i would like to make on the movie i'll write more books and i'm gonna make another movie i dunno if it's going to be because someone let me we're just going to have a mirror of what was going to wind up being just cause i went and did it but yeah i love it it's my favorite if i had to be ass with you if i had to pick a medium a medium if god came down put a gun to my head may me pick up one medium one thing that i could taken for the rest my life it would be films

and if he really subdivided it out i would say documentaries no because even if i went blind i could still listen to him if i went deaf i could watch them good point donor website again jani star com thank you so much guys who come and i really do of you guys look area people i met us about these guys but you guys do i don't know them you'd love no the