The tonight show was severely wounded and, in my case, unaware of the meat eater podcast. You can't predict anything presented by first light. Go farther stay longer the and were here I'd kill. This goes out, yeah he's dead, yanina area. we are joined by phil, whose avenue parfait. How is how's it feel it's always delicious. Now, mac and your lips over there, you turned you mike off yeah. So beyond the countless new smack, some people kind of thing. Most people hate it turn up. That's good! Ah, who's, ever gas, appearance,

today's installation of the adventures, but what is it? What's with the so called. Turn your back on all your Yonah middle of a bite here, the continuing adventures of chester? The investor is right ryan callaghan this year fresh off his first I mean they literally its prey is probably even it's is still percolating through year, venture for sure a covered vaccine first round pfizer does not endure. This is what our agenda So you were. Did you I have like a you know about get the vaccine. Were you afraid that you know the government was going to put a tracking device in you and all that kind of stuff? What's the It gets the vaccine that well that's a big one and a half made up, so I do this anyway, and you are it's weird, though, like amongst a large part of my family.

We ve never ever had flew shot. I've never had a flu shot, my entire life, but I was, use of antibiotics now, but I just ran would cause I don't get the blue rat. I didn't As far as I know. As far as we know, we ve done a bunch of covert tests. By salmon have an eye antibody test, but I didn't get covert either. So maybe it'd, but maybe I did. But you did you vastly I'm gettin the vaccine. There was part of. like self. Do you find it odd that you. Ve never had the desire to get a flu shot or felt like it was irresponsible to. get a flu shot, but here you are really chop and at the bit to get a covert nineteen shop. Now I had those thoughts.

Yeah. There are notable. Do I mean there's more incentive to kind of wrap this up? If we can, then there is the wrap of the flu. I don't really know why that's true, but it's like I don't know yes, I, like maybe it's acknowledging a little bit of frailty in yourselves bomb tougher than the flu yielding govan, but I dunno, but I do have some like her. Like war, you don't feel Maybe I just have the good stuff already, so I messed with it where they friendly downer, very friendly, very thankful jeff take shirt off. No, I just peeled gave her a little short Although she tasted the shoulder on, they were actin like they were actually you were doing them a good turn. Yes, very much so we're just so happy that you came in like giving blood. Yeah. What shoulder would you like my game? on my left shoulders closer to you about that on all you'd have been moved, argued open, move. If you want them right shoulder, you want bugs

your camel of banded bugs body, so there's enough gamble in my life man and then how do you about introduce unit secondary what were joined by pod gas alone, air crawford, whose, where new hat I mean that literally and figuratively, wearing But how do you know what assigned to go in for other won the day, right. Now there really encouraging you to a priest enjoy your second shot, but there in blocks. So it's like the block that, on a part right now that got signed up and and got vaccine slots for today, while we'll all be getting their second shot April. Twenty four but we are all on the road april twenty first, but I had a long talk, might conceivably airy phil by gas producer over there, with the ogre

yup, yogurt guy, I mean look at him fret he's working on his got hell he's already got around a vaccine m, pretty reliable source so and add using just get it in? you're out. The second one could be weaker, really weak late, but god yet so that's it. That's my programme got Eric offered was the last time you on the show. You are again: for me, I was, I was cash. Was it twenty fifteen was that we could that be when I was it, it was a long time ago covered. Is young pops back than some of us here. Would you nowadays it yourself today I work for limited as north. I don't feel coordinators will make a fish Title is: did you know all long you, like man some day when I'm not a game, warden unaware for trot and limited? I didn't know that you know that kind of right. You know, set of circumstances, quite honestly got burnout being a game warden after twenty plus years

doing it about twenty four years. Don't mean toy policies with the same agency oh yeah, so you're kind of like look out for you after that, like there's some retirement stuff and all that oh yeah, yeah, okay, yeah, yeah, yeah, she straight up yeah got a pension and everything yeah, but I feel, like you, Are you older, mere younger me now The same age old I ve only forty eight, your one does not really you one you're older mean? Are you like? You could tell me what you're retired ye I stop work though musket born here So I dont draw my retirement with the state but yeah it was just a good transition from doing yedo conservation law enforcement in conservation. For that matter. To now focusing on in on you know, salmon and steal ed and old water species throughout the state. I do

torn about retired. I wasn't I wasn't there. There were also well well. I will say that there is a day as I drove drove to the office that I worked out of lewis and that it really hit me. That I was losing my identity, if that makes sense like air as a game warden for when he is like. I asked what I not pack of a pistol I you're here man. No we're in lahti, armoured worker or wherein aside arm near now, but it was just Ok, that's who I am that's, who I identify with and then one day it was gone eu neighbours lot more forthcoming with you now about like what they ve been up to I have one neighbour that I think is even more apprehensive now has any doesn't know what I'm up to

I keep an avid hunter. He used to know what not to tell you now he's like. I don't even know anymore, even though cal's aware of this, but last two weeks ago, last week last weekend it was there is three moose in my yard, and No no alive yadda eat my shrubs, so I called damn game department told we get there moose out other Yard, like literally called my old neighbouring officer, I was like hey. These moose are back. What are you doing, but that same neighbor had just evidently just been bitching like crazy about him like eating his apple trees and he's happy to see him gone so gotcha there are you my or net bore it there? I am a thing. Is it's hard? It's hard valued of more can't see, it was gorgeous called a buckle. It's amazing. The inside of it literally looks like polish stone. Rather than would too will the birch of birch borough they bought Boden, whose also podcast alum

but born goes out, hunt them down on the woods on Alaska was a chain saws off the borough and then. Takes a like an angle grinder with his little wood feeding on it and puts away everything that doesn't look like a bowl, so many hours of effort goes into that. He says one takes them about ten man hours. That's it! I thought it'd be way more yeah, so did I It's if you live in the walls are nothing it's beautiful, it is bring. This up is we're gonna make one we're gonna make one of these bodies. Walls it'll be a while so stay tuned, but we're gonna, we're gonna have a way to make one of these buckyballs available and where we're going to raise some conservation money by having a auction house of oddities,

So you're saying that I should start save my money, so I can have a pneumonia now because that big ass bowl, you could pretty much just get damned you take a bath in that thing that bowl is going to box got one. it looks just like it that is sending it to us that we are going to make available through an auction house of oddities lots of pictures of those things and yeah ten hours is all. I bet, Let's do it well, in fact, over of camera guys took from box collection. Other have deserved ass lord here from Lauren. You know how long it took him to do it. He did it isn't it I dunno how long it took him, though, but he was asking me a bunch of questions about it with like the angle grinder, with the wood bits and stuff yeah cause you're a little bit crafty with word chester yeah. It used to be

but women use the yeah it'll be crafted with woods retired, but I still work before you can study crafty with wood. I mean come on, it's not hard to be crafted with wood. all the dumper oil, so wrapped phil hither hither gesture. The investor soundtrack the continuing adventures of chester, the investor ass, it might become. The problem on was not lately, just begun so much feedback about his bitcoin operation. yeah a lot of people writing in which has surprised with advice? You have advice, here's one, not quite advice. Well, I know what you're talking about I started my

Coinbase account back when bitcoin was like ten k, they gifted me ten free dollars of bitcoin That money has now grown to thirty eight dollars and one sent the keeps growing be able to buy those new sweet first light pants, all without ever putting in my own money suck on that just ass. In other areas, How is the housing investment sit right now, It's kind of like just spend stagnant since the last time we talked about it yet has may has gone up and down, but not huge swings are you are you're? A writer outside of the ideas feel like your conversation is gonna stagnated. The marketplace little like in introduce some investor uncertainty, no doubt we might be, we might be tank influencing influence the mark. You might be doing insider trading, game stuff he's already casinos. Where we're gonna talk about it.

Are you regret your investment? You wish you put it into real estate. No, I still made money on it and it's it's. I haven't lost any money. It's just plus it's hard to put a few thousand bucks into real estate. Oh yeah, yeah like I need a very small the planned yeah I mean to be clear, I'm not like. I don't have a ton of money and becoming just trying to get. just trying to get a wall. I don't care for if someone wrote in this. This is a vbac that I got. I don't know if you got it and this guy hates bitcoin guy, he doesn't like it, he doesn't like bitcoin and because of this. There's no social, tangible utility or value to it, goes on to say that, which is that's all that's all subjective right was not subject to possess. use insane amounts of real energy. The university of cambridge suggests the bitcoin network,

Uses more than one hundred and twenty one terawatt hours of electricity annually, Now, the have me this chester is but a hundred eight countries in this world yeah guy. If bitcoin was the country, it would be the thirtieth the thirtieth that a word there, the thirtieth most energy, sucking country on the planet, almost electricity bills, electricity, those suckers or use the cost- does not end there at lawn care, familiar with theirs coin mining operation in in milltown Montana right there you know like on the mill property when they shut the mill down and eat they seek out places to mine, bitcoin, in that I have a relatively low temperature because they

cool cool. All the computer. Sally computers earn yet. But the facility also creates, like an audible hum. And you can hear that hum four miles like once. You like you knows that thing like you want. You become familiar with it. You can hear it for a long long way and then eventually yourself familiar with it. You can hear anymore, but right, milltown it's gone now. had been part of the reason, but studies coming out, suggesting that this audible hum could make people tone deaf to that pitch people and then also was having all sorts of effects on like bats and birds and stuff, like that cheese chester, the one of your own money. Well dirty money, chester, I'd like to dissolve saying while able it's like chester is holding,

wall I boat industry hostage. He's basis, and you could end this global environmental catastrophe. Just by giving a wall about bats. Where's your globally loans as into it for the boat. If I get about, I pull out if not amend, killin bad, killing birds, and may your children go tone deaf, our there's some pretty interesting stuff goin on by you know, mining operations using energy access energy from fossil fuel. Mining like oil rigs, and I like to say this, but we know this meets a means of you. What mining means greater thinking? You dig a hole. Equally, you are mining. Metaphorically mining is solving a long, math problem.

And once they solve it, did you it's digital? It comes up with an basically a number that cannot be replicated. It's really difficult to replicate. That number could he'd have to go through the exact same steps. You know these mining operations have to do to come up with that in number. that and number is a bitcoin, and so the mining is just computations, very complex, computations with computers the require lots of energy and make our children not be able to hear certain sounds possibly But I dont yes, I guess I don't know that's why he has used this ice all concerned with this. No I'm I'm concerned, but there's like most of bitcoin is mine in china and a lot of it is coming, thereby setting up his operations in dams and stuff

where there is access energy, so, like you, wear, I like low population areas where the do these electricity- these are hydroelectric dams, are creating too much energy. They got nowhere to put it so essentially, it would just be there taking this excess to mine bitcoin in the united states oil rigs, you see, I'm all over produces natural bertinotti flares, so their basically tappin in to these flares and trying their best to use access energy which that that energy would be going to nobody. You know it wouldn't they're not using it, they're just burning it off. How much do you believe that girl on a scale of one to ten? oh yeah, I believe it like unix. You lose

or g when you move energy as that part of the deal. So I can see that making sound think about this. The US dollar is backed by the us government uncle sam uncle sam, which I'm not hating on the us dollar. I'm just trying to know you know, We the us dollar, but it is backed by the. U s: government, which is essentially backed by the military and think about how much gasoline the military uses everyday to protect our dollar to just go. Is deep. Now you know I can't report. I have to come back for the next. If we do this segment and big of a retort well and solemn, for while I boat that's the most striking oil here think, while it is made of the military, would just give chester wall. I boat they when you feel it, their budgets fell,

if the train somewhere and they'd win him back over to the? U s. Dollar and he'd be back a fan of the? U S, dollar they'd get that customer back and he won't be putting his money in some crypto terrorism deal chester soak. Let me tell you another: here's another possible retort, chester for you not for me, but for you a b they it by someone else about the add on Like you getting out of this wall, I bought business, isn't going to make or break bitcoin absolutely not now. What's your timeline like at what point would you be frustrated if you didn't have your wallet boat couple of months What like with he wants the boat could now what has an efficient, what his body just when I bought a boat, the old fashioned way these workin that military use work and take your money by about now.

upon a wall eyes, just sit around or refreshed is bitcoin account. I went with them, the good life. I got it tastes and uneven yeah. You got a pace yourself that you don't want to make the wrong purchase. That's true and right now it's really hard the guy that has done that myself, while what justice think about doing it. All honesty, gestures, thinking about selling his drift, but oh yeah, putting the drift boat money toward the wall I boat and then promptly getting back into bitcoin just to bake just to make screw you money, yeah, smart move. I did something similar. I had a raft with efficient frame sold that upgraded to a drift boat, but that was when I moved to the lowest in moscow area will have now realized. I couldn't get to where I needed to you to fish salmon steelhead sturgeon kokanee, you name it, and now I have a powerboat hm where the other boats sold them. So

An upgraded was a dreadful worth. Ninety five, probably hundred bucks, to buy always motor there, I'm I'm torn because you know Now, I'm I'm not the kind of guy who probably should be by anyone about you know. Just get me going to earn it like this way that doesn't have any impact when you found in a drawer, true right, in fact, How do I get a drawer and I worked for the dead you're, just talkin bout bolter topic, as there are no boats on the market right now. I guess that's very. It is ace, where's market, you could say you're at low inventory, lots demand now that yet top dollar for that drift boat and I have around- you can borrow anytime, you want thanks, go slice everybody went well, they lit regulation targets, invite it on every. While I trip Oh, I suppose I m o irony

and desired. Told him if he needs drive, godson get a suite. While I bow to you can take my truck whew because one that's commit one factories to not talk about artist. If he ends up with the big lake All about it also needs a vehicle to told about you and me: years. So now you be like how'd, you get there, but I hear from wisconsin That's right! You took my truck, that's right who are you a lot of words, error, my truck You are quite. Can you put your year, we're game or an add on and run a question by is our question asked I just in fairness to the odds are treated up here. I am it's ok to ask our governor here, Tat has been of some articles, written with what I have found to be a decidedly. Misleading collection of headlines about the governor

sort of like illegally, like legally, kills a yellow stonewall so that the camera, the exact headline there was such that I thought when I saw the headline, I thought man. it's so on governor like to go into yellowstone national park in shoot a wolf I thought ring the headline out like this is a big deal You know, and I read the article and unlike the third or fourth paragraph of article I get to what look. What happened actually transpire so. No, not really an apology for bridging it was like. It was forty that in inside. jim for a headline people that wanted. Get something like you put down like dad killed.

Yellowstone wolf, it's like you know it's going to be sticking right and what did happen was if, if you go online here and you're from idaho, but yet you go online in this state and buy a trapping permit and there's there's a season to travels you travel. Permit is good for all trapping activities. With the exception of one thing, you need to do and online search occasion like you need to take an online course. There's a there's, a quiz in it. I dunno must be some kind of thing to make sure you were parity, I gotta billy others, because we in idaho, has a similar trapping ed course specific to wolves schedule of trapping course above and beyond trapper education, yes, we don't we were going to in this day, but we don't have trapper education. I think that it came, down to change it.

I think it will be like the state the the state agency was going to put in place, but he realized it was more. It needed to be kind of a game. Commission decision or or somehow it got put off. we still have the trapper education cosmo. They re able to do with wolves if you ve, bought unearthing, be sent this is when you buy arm. You know when you buy, deer hunting license. You don't need to take a test that shows you can tell the difference between a whitetail and mule deer sure I bought when you buy a bear license here. You need to go on and take this little primer that helps you distinguish a black bear from a grizzly, so you don't accidentally help prevent people. Accident shoot, grizzlies similar thing like that, and it is pretty clear like it's. It's clearly need to take this thing. I've been on there and and Looked at the whole deal. Ah, so he trapped a wolf like otherwise legally trapped. What was not in yellowstone park, it was private property on a ranch and trapped wolf.

I'll have it, but it turned out that it turns out that he had not gotten his had not done. I might certification, metal licence that all the other suffered and how that ireland's ratification didn't take. The free course and it has been a and was issued a warning. What are you kind of imagined about? What would be your line of thinking in a situation like that? If we remove the title yeah important employee, I try to room strip away the title. The! U have someone who look it's quite clear you go on the website. You're supposed to do. This thing forgot meant to later had read that part. You knows how do you view some like that? Yes, I think that's a key part of it is removing the title as though it a regular person. And then you gotta look at well what was their intent where they trap and with m b seven fifties, and were they absolutely targeting a wolf or was it incidental to coyote trapping? So once you get.

to the bottom of that and if it's a simple is a hunter ed or a trapper at a wolf trapper ed equation- and you know, I think, it depends on everything leading up to that. Like I said, the whole the situation in all the circumstances, and but you know a warning for doing something like that, it's in season and you could legally harvest it it. Just the problem was that he didn't have the necessary trapper, ed or wolf, trapper, aed certification, and so you know yeah it's reasonable to get get a warning and you know forfeit the Wildlife, since you didn't have you know the necessary certifications. So you'd you feel the in in n. In a interview situation, when all the facts are presented, you could see a scenario in which a warning is

Yeah, I mean already what you're looking at you know was individuals intend to really buck the system and not take the trapping course. I mean how long they take. Does anybody know of five minutes yeah, it's online. You know in idaho its cash. Is it a twelve hour court you may say might be eight hours in arresting and comparison rat, as like a two out of three things he had his trapping license, He had his wolf tag, but he didn't have. the online certification, yeah. What I have seen laid down at the hangman boat ramp, a NATO waterfowl scenario- riah idaho, has the migratory birds that, like the state I am toward him and doors. Man is hit group here, yeah yeah migratory brat. If you have your hunting license, you have your federal migratory to duck stamp, but you don't have the two dollar permit, but you don't have the two dollars dollars, the least.

Expensive at the two dollars thing and I dont anybody's ducks, be intake. I've seen many people get It is on that boat ramp. Yet were that, I don't recall, recall anybody's ducks. Being cohesion What's good yeah, that example, this is always bring up is, and I think I've mentioned it three times about the cause, it's ill health, where he was our illustrate of the loss. I dunno illustrator just write music that well, let's hear what you have to say that it was guy, and I remember he he does some. He does haunting media, and I remember that he knows. Also, you see these articles that he was like hunting without a license or poaching an elk or whatever right, and it gets presented that wakes at splashy. Remember the thing being: that he had his son.

Hundred dollar non resident elk tag, but hadn't gotten the five dollar bow hunter stamp. in a case like there are now excusing you need to have you need to have the of the e europe. the nor is like absolutely, but you look you when you look at the intent thing, I can't picture so be like, and I know how to save five bucks, not like it has to be another explanation beside someone you look for another explanation. Besides someone is Poland a fast one,

and you would see that you know that's a really good example, because in idaho and cal you're, probably familiar with this- is that you now need archery ed to get your archery permit your validation, and so it could be a system now where people are in that age class that they would have to take archery education and to get that permit that they don't want to take. They don't want to waste the time to take. However, many hours later it is gotcha. You know you just gotta, look at all the circumstances. two to have to find a lesson here. I would point out of finding a lesson: imagined: thee. Imagine the embarrassment and distraction that one goes through in a situation like this. It's really just pays. It really pays to two when you're engaging in a new activity when times gone by and

rules might have changed dionaea. It pays to I'll put it this way. I sometimes will we're going to a new state. I'm learning to have it be a practice to. lay out some like here's, the things I have here's what I want to do. I am I missing anything in my pile of stuff here. Like am I getting this right and barcelona is getting. Also getting licences from places where the vendors are familiar with the This is not the dog I walmart pride. Go into. Walmart were to have a sporting sector, I had to go in and argue with people about what I need right. It's nice to go to a place where to get on that trash and provides great service. You can go buy stuff there. It's wonderful, yeah but to go to a place where you have more subject.

Export more likely to encounter subject matter, expert and take the time to be like at the end your transaction or middle of it, but you can do in this, but I might do this, and what does this happen? like him. I is this. my situation dialed yeah I say that I would see that a lot is that well, hey. I bought I bought my stuff at this vendor and they said I had everything I needed and it was you know, then what do you say that it is like don't have everything. Please go back. Please go back and get your archery validation. Like I'm Tellin YA, you don't have it, you know and it's a simple fix. You know, but very good point I mean you gotta, go to the subject matter expert and in choosing a place like that, or maybe a gas station may not be you gotta go to the theaters, though, where it's like the crusty old guy. Who is not

going to let you purchase anything until you, ve heard the fifteen minute history the game unit, why it's being redrawn. the way it was when he was again and here's how he knows, and then you can get down to actually giving that person money in getting out the door as most of the just gimme the thing and with the right stuff. Yes, care, the limit more on recovery. We are just when we cover the hairy eyeball disease, fascinating man. What's it called weird corneas, turmoil in the eight ilo and noble asshole, not until very recently there's a it can hit humans. It's all manner of mammals. Species were somehow you're eyeball becomes harry like the hare making stuff

Basically, your eyeball somehow turns to basically skin and then it starts growing hair like the crazy, if you're here when you your magic, probably all kinds, ways a fix it, but that this does dear turns a blind like his each eye, both eyes programme worth worse and worse and worse, the one day that he was flat out blind and it's eyeball is just hair yeah, the the the more the I think, the the case being referenced is they were they'd. They determine that this was something that came that that evolved overtime, verse, is the dear being born with Harry eyeballs the way the right there's some women make a howard again that all right, there's some learn behaviour here that probably

come about any other way than if the dear could see all up to a serious beyond them and then at haired over or then plus the helplessness of it. But really I bring this back up. Is this guy a listener? The show sense in a picture from a cow Elk for new mexico. It's on my history. If you aunt, Stephen or now, you'll find the measured hit follow by their you'll, find the a picture of this one. this harry eyeball, and this is the Elk shot his body shot at any says the funding Is this body you shot? The elk is blind in the same left I saw the hunter in the Elk have a bomb. I left side in this elk has hair it's like as long as fills her way way longer than cals her. It's pretty gross lucia long hairs, gesture yeah, I'm losing it, but

if the fill gestures, hair sticking out of his eyeball, though oh I honestly can't believe those those pictures weren't flagged for a sensitive material, because some stuff on your on your. Graham has it I thought it shouldn't be, but the crows harry could see and argue the girl's hairy eyeball is still yeah while wide open to to all viewers. So much Tell me that there's a medical instagram, oh yeah, page that gets flagged all the time yeah, so you can be trying to be constructive and helpful and educational and still get flagged. It's people really don't like looking at these hairy, eyeballs yeah! That's what I say when I see that fill.

If we keep on top up more thea saudi away again, I lay I think I like the next one you into this organ talk. Well, I know some of the eighty eight talks knew her anything Karin who is not here to she's, not here, evidently no she's, We beer, Schneier she's in Texas Clinton, told you we're going to talk about why I'm pretty sure I know I feel, like you kind of watching the sausage get made when you have are when you have our stuff, there's a little bit sausage making yeah yeah. How would you rate current as a producer? Oh she's, top notch yeah. I really. I gave her kudos the other day for that preston, pittman piece it has fantastic spring and, but you know just is always. I always admired them when I was younger, oh yeah lover, you know young turkey hunter, and he was you know it back then been shot twice, can argue that boy

There is also his. You know the sage advice and those are the great. his class at the fill you ought to think about who I, like I like trail, cam, six, so much joe, can picture so much that if we had a opening like I dunno what it would look like or what we could use his arm never j guiles ban for he is prevented from surgery, is free, but in andalusia and aimed at ending yes, maybe it'll. Stop with that control the segment college caught colorado trail can so be like tonight on COD ontario can came to box mountain regions

This is interesting cows going to give us a report on this one guy, sending some pictures of a buck mounting and other buck so buck mounting a buck for about six seconds turns out. There's this whole world of it. It's an obvious question. Why have I come to be and there's even like an acronym for it s s b s, s b stands, for it should be s s. S b stands for same sex, sexual behavior in wildlife, yanis opinion Jani had always thought it was related to it like his guess was. It was related to dominance. You know there are always like fighting

posture and doing all kinds of stuff, and it's like a dominant thing. One day I was turkey help. My kids were talking to cattle rancher because all of his cows raw mounting each other and for the life of me. I cannot remember what he told me. Hopefully a category can write and we should have called one. I think he had just maybe weaned, nor even be turkey season at weaning them now, and I am now there's a thing. He told me how logs long gestation period cow You're not you're, not pregnant, yet they don't have a letter month gestation period. Now they have a brand new calf. You haven't they're all mouth, each other those would be proud of the stairs and the year before it is not without would be, yeah go over your temper. I use I came here. Yours you're, my kid is real Here's bottle the mountain goin on he told us and I must have been distracted by something because for the white meat and we get

people are there's a big cattle man. I e mail with down florida. His head like the floor to he'd. He tell me two hundred yards dirty, damn sure. No, what's that called gestation period, two hundred and eighty three days, that's that's an average between, like our our most common domestic cattle breeds, I betcha it's a yearling, it's the yearly nets, doing it particularly yearling sister steer. I bet ya. I got a turkey one hundred yards from there where had that conversation after hunt and turkey winter yeah yeah. I think that tells you that that might dispel Am I perceived expertise, boys? What what ere. She for into there is it in the inner mountain west, where winners are very severe and we are proud that were there, not historic populations of turkey's they have a way of in the winter. Finding their way down to cattle. Greening operation find the biggest feed lot. You can and despair.

And in migrate, like considerable distance from those plays big time, but you'll have you might have a ranch or feeding cattle? Also come February he's got three hundred turkeys. He's got every tour with twenty mile rate united all across the world and in the service. They the green up, what they get bored leave, then they go off and do turkey stuff here ray talks about important minos meal their winter ages? What we need to do to protect them cheese as turkey will arrange There are three valuable they should be like. If you love turkey's hugger field I heard a feedlot manager, I call on force. Will I think the its interest in this topic also popped up and read, because creating our we're talking about pressed and and- and he was talking about the throat the homosexual turkey like theirs to do things that the turkeys either homosexual or the turkeys like been shot out before

something like two accounts. They do. Com for would have no interest in the calls of ahead in communism and we there is a discussion that followed him of is actors that just like an off the cuff type. This is my reasoning and there's no reason for asking it observation from a woodsman rat trying to find an excuse for a long beard not come in right exactly right, but I was well. Homosexual behaviour and in variety of animals is, is very well documented stuff, I mean it area plausible and is a peer reviewed. Possibility could say people written vapours on us and then the ngo. Even

further and there is the sexual add that sexual giant then draw more physical, social dimorphism not die more fizzle, never does just france and size? I am there, it is bilateral. Jain Andrew morphs. More, apple and I did Going around! I ass a man super fascinating, but it's odd that is the most apparent in birds, and you can have a true fifty fifty split and a down the middle down down down the middle, and there's a guy in pain, mania, who got a couple of good pictures, of a bilateral.

Jain andrew morph, a cardinal in pennsylvania, which is you know, Split directly down the middle red oh resembling cardinal on one side, female, assembling cardinal on the opposite side and This is documented enough to where he didn't turn the bird. You know didn't, kill the bird an and dissect it, but ah science would say that this bird has both ovaries and testes. That's incredible! yeah yup? Oh there's the word: bi, lateral, gene, nando, engineer, indo, John Andrew morphs, half ciders yep, that's really something man yeah! I I mean I thought so But when I read this people's struggle with this with like same sex,

behaviour in animals is because you want to look like why really they do must be right. Has the reproduction has to be reproduction rules, doesn't make any sense right if that's the case than you have to dear to male dear attempting them out one another. There is no point to it or not producing, say like what should happen. Rats not reproductions yeah, and then you can go away down there at all and then there's all sorts of papers of all its animals performing sexual acts that have that do not relate to reproduction worms from worms two drafts, including dolphins, lions, bisons, walrus, many birds, yet theirs, Paper out of japan, those cool lookin snow monkeys that while they those monkeys, cooler.

yeah ice coated monkey, I see monkey in a hot bring is too much for me. I see hearts bring monkey for me to handle the there is a paper out there that has there, you know, do as all produce started with an observation led to a question of is this a one time thing, or does this happen all the time, but those monkeys hop on top of the deer come down to the hot springs and he forgot all day may we did carried on the mediator propaganda that did the female of female monkey would hop on dear you up and then and ride the dear aunt it found some sexual release and then you know had backed large bring the gradual network Maybe someone somewhere, you ve seen in your time in law enforcement around

eggs and a lot of geothermal over there is was, is what's more remarkable than did the monkey does it is that the dear tolerated yeah did the Delia. Does it teach their own? Do they tolerate or do they ran? It seemed to me about that story. Did you covered outline kells? We can review I, so it's hard hundred episodes yahoo what you got agree? We just just finished a hundred episodes fills nodding. Yeah. That's right. I've been kind of off our regularly scheduled programming last for ninety nine and one hundred and get back to the news, hard news I call here on one on one: how do you get on top of this? This? The explanation for what was the net and acronym s? Sb same sex behavior same sex, sexual behavior? One explanation that, or I should say it's an explanation like a a thing to think about. Is that yet imagine like life in all? It's forms

and when you had life forms a head, though they would not result in more. We still do life forms a have less pronounced sexual dimorphism appearances site. Whatever the down, maybe at a time when you encountered. or maybe among some species, counter or a look alike and the. The one organism does know about the other organism. What it is male female right, yeah I made us they they couple. Another we're not out with no outcome. Well, I I think that what were you going with it is the fact that this has been happening for a long time in a number of species, but the fact of the matter is that it is self limiting, because there is no real reproduction

yeah that that's the part that I found so yeah, usually else it says, and so we high papa size that present day, diversity in sexual behaviour in animals stems from an ancestral background of you, like that. You'll pursuit, this indiscriminate mating among individuals whose eyes discriminate, mate, industry, it mating among individuals of all sexes in some branches of the animal tree of life, where s sb is actually quite costly. This behavior might be selected against takes energy takes energy takes a lot of energy. If you bought kale, oh and yeah, no, it's there were facts of life stuff, there's just a lot of life out. There is this kind of funny bold type rather staffers if they ve got like lab coats and clipboards went, maybe I'm being basic and crude here. But it's sort of like a

Why are we all kind of wondering why way these animals have these same sex interactions when we will just have to like look at each other and look at you, and likewise because we're not the same fail, we didn't help for male monkey. Stroke albert I mean like maybe, or maybe I'm just maybe Occam's razors and the way to go. But I'm just kind of thinking like well maybe they're, just horny and sexuality is a weird complex spectrum. There's something I'm attracted to We worry it is, but even of an that's like the odd thing it's like there's gonna be a chunk. the folks listening who are like hey man, it's not adam and eve or the right to do. But the thing is like well boy, weird that birds do bees. monk and worms monkeys do let us go alone. I don't elements, do it and they ve been a very long time look at it as look at it is, should they

I just look at it as her okay, yeah yeah, but I mean it just kind of funny that were like wondering well look: why would they expend their energy if the whole thing is to reproduce and like I, I totally understand that, but How many animals when they engage in is called coin? when its animals, when they have sex, how many of them have no that they are. They have a chance to report using create another while just egg acting on instinct, like I have this weird urged to do this, and I'm gonna do it at us railway, whereas failures, weary and tell them not to teach our. And we know what will happen if this happens. How did are aware cucumber, saying Here's honoured, yeah rat. I make a lot more sea cucumbers when I spell exactly The procedures Jesus states is doing what he feels like doing, whether it's a male or female, select darwin had this theory right, and that was a long long time

may. I just read a paper last year, giraffe specifically ran like, europe is like the young bull. Both I ran. There's like young giraffe balls. Do a lot of meeting and the ones that made the most do not with his long, because, there really working hard, and the ones that don't put that much effort. Intimating. We have a lot longer and Because they live longer, they end up having more offspring and his leg. Bro gotta work really hard. You know, and you know, there's there Eurasian, also of theirs all sorts of communities out there that are at stake there did you not to its? If, frenzy of sexual activity and the selection process isn't anything that we can come to the conclusion of of like is there actually selection browsers if there were?

then look at all the since happening here, and why would at any that makes sense red? it's all good questions, but not like I conclusion: isn't like I'll be damned yeah. What justifies me in feeling the I can go like her is because the writing about and like science and nature yeah. So though there still you see a lot of science or glitch. There's someone like that. There's some scientific validity I think it can all be captured. I don't think you'd be like all Cities are pleasure, inducing. All cases are mistaken. Attempts reproduce. All key. It's as are damage I make it could prizes giant spectrum of impulses and desires. and then you like overlay that on what humans do, as you say until we can.

Figure out a way to start interviewing all of these species in animals and in him, kids. Some gives me straight facts. you don't seem like you did this. When you were younger you The fight is female. On your younger and had millions of babies. but now your mail, why did choose to do that? You know, like is hard data apply at new oil slick, measures for can fascinating it off Why is it legal to sell a mounted animal. Zena shoulder maldonado kind amounted, not that kind amounted nodded anytime, amounting situate. but like a shoulder mount rat with hide on it more. Donna or antlers on it. Whatever the case may be, but It is illegal to trade me so stems back too lazy act is early early on in the commercialization of wildlife,

and so you don't want to profit off of meat specifically meat, because there absolutely is a value to wild gamey. You know you can go to the grocery store and see domestic meat and see what value is placed there, and so, if it was incentivized to sell edible portions, it would be a huge problem and- and that's what you know primarily what we saw with the lacey act and the development of that and other things- the migratory bird act with trying to take away the value monetary value of specific laws. Life, then, so that's why you know the basics of white accounts I'll meet gamey, but you can sell it happened to me. I love you can't sell of some things in some could circumstances you can't sell rawhide, Oh really surprised rossiya, yet like you

The only way the only outlet, at least in idaho, and I'm sure this is consistent across the union, state. Is you can only sell a a green hide? What steve's talking about so his martin hides or as beaver hides that are green, haven't been tanned. The only purse you could sell. That too is a fur buyer that is permitted and licensed. You can't just go out and sell him on the street green goo. Two thousand and eight add that all that you can capes. You know may god, I've sold capes things dear I'm sorry I sought to keep one time four thousand dollars. I was january next, your friend who sold a cape one time for six hundred bucks or if you have a tax and we who has a client, say guy she's, a big something sheets bigger but hits a through the neck.

Hmm and he's gonna put all this money to mount, but the next no good, so they wanted. They want the cape, the net kind off another deer. To put the antlers on so it looks normal. Those can be quite valuable. You strip that thing right off and sell it yeah yeah- and here I thought I was doing good with it. Forty allard. Why tell cape that I'd? So while these were white tails yeah but observes what some to the right person but it is interesting. Riotously, my wheel, hocker say that, but that is, but I can't tell you some neck meat to hear how you came here and I want sold the full cape of away. Tell buck big bodied. Why tell buck to attack serviced in trade? For him in my bare I'd, gotcha ledges reality, yeah Lombardo, you'd, our dream and break. You are not met me! No! No! No! No met neck me so You can see how

Without knowing the full story, you can see how people would look at that and be like that makes zero sense, absolutely yeah yeah and it's just about creating a commercial. You know situation and monetizing it. That's the biggest problem and you do see in commercialization of wildlife cases. You know it's not all always about horns cause, it's a lot easier to get meat, and so you will occasionally see a case where they're just out you know spotlighting deer to commercially sell the meat cause it. It has value when they put the laws into effect and they they tailored it like the one in one of the things that inspired Theodore roosevelt to do the conservation work that he did was the what's that word. The planet planet was that were for hunting, feathers, plumage plumage plumage mark, but as a word for that as near like a not plenary but like a feather hunters yeah. So

of shorebirds yep put guns yeah, like beautiful shorebirds. You know people would want the feathers to decorate like lit. I like, honestly to decorate hats, and there are people that made living shooting, beautiful, shorebirds and what I were to get greater than you know. You dress it specifically like the market for big, was there is a market for me their dress into meat thing. There is a market for food there's outsourcing. So they address like that market, but can't sell those feathers. Excessive people are, after so lightly room for like the things you can sell, weren't things they were trying to dress like if you be driven to extinction by cape hunters. They proud addressed sellen capes, but there was in the case here it could be something to do with meat would be harder to track. The source is just meet, but if someone is trying to sell dropped, double drop,

and buck is pretty easy to be in today's day and age, easier to try and figure out who got that soccer game from whatnot. So that's driving me crazy. It's like plenary plugin, it's something I'll give up I'll, give some adjusters bitcoin who have to out out they'll. That word is: is not the plumage deal it? That's! That's a good word at the world summit, type in some long lines of millinery that that's it not plenary is out of their civic, too Others are just an almost between you and give kehl road. Now very specific, two hats. The feather. tat people now act, then, at the turn of the century, liked feathered perhaps enable shouting shore birds to near extinction. Some of the big places that became like wetlands refugees? Worse made, refugees is protected from the milliner. That's all

No, the military trade tried is what you get. You Have you got way and on this as a game, warden former game ward? Was there got dry, but a guy from maryland rights- and this is this- is forty years ago and governmental justin from here. rights it about a disagreement between his hunting club members, so when you go he's, this is true in maryland, but it's true everywhere. It's called a something or another, Kehl tells if you, All right now fall comes around you, I d go: hunt migratory waterfowl. You will be presented with a set of questions about what happened to you last year, when you were hung, it'll, be like docks, zero to five five to twenty twenty higher, whatever the hell geese.

like what you get right when you get down you get into weird stuff, like coots and rails in one zero five and you check just trying to get a sense of what all you got. Was that called hip yeah? It's the harvest, information program, oh yeah, yeah yeah, I guess I do sometimes have jobs on their to any the migratory species there there is trying to figure out. What's goin on apparently marilyn, they have either They're just in here is confusing marilyn's own thing, with the federal thing or marilyn does their own thing, but he says these blogs you adopt club in maryland has a questionnaire. says in his dark camp. There are two sets of opinions. About how to handle this questioner. Camp number one is you lie and say you got fewer than you did because the dinner, the department, natural resources there will look in.

Oh not that many geese got killed last year. Let's everyone to kill more now camp to is you lie and say you got more than you got presented. Dna will think geez if they're kill and that many geese there must be a water geese. We Let him kill more his camp is why not just tell em how many guys you got and will lead a figure it out in that The camp, a guy if the game, the game or the system, but we got a game. It's clear by that explanation. They don't understand the system. Is I the the one thing we are agree on here's organ gains. How to do that is working fine discord

here's another listener feedback thoroughly quest. It's more like a a what you call it. You could decide what we call the shots guy rights in he lives in gloucester? They say that glocester glocester massachusetts. He calls it tax, it uses, it isn't tears the uses and here's this problem, and this is a legitimate gripe. I got his back on this fresh water licence sophia in massachusetts, historical, you need it, you didn't need a freshwater fishing licence the fresh water, fishing licence sales went to fund the state, fish and game agency and ass. We ve covered a million times now say walmart. you stay fish and game agencies, get their revenue, do all the things they do, ranging from access enhancement to law enforcement to disease research.

All the things are going to wildlife. Making sure we have wildlife make sure we can access wildlife like all s off, gets funded by large through excise taxes and life. Revenues saw the people to buy hunting and fishing licences. Whether they aware of this care about this or not that's what your license money does, but massachusetts recently introduced a salt water licence case. So this is true of a lot of coastal states. Lot coastal states fresh. They have different freshwater licence software licence. we'll do some salt licence, and I can't believe I can't lie we hear about this, for this water licence money goes into the general fund.

opposite the general state of our back up to say this when one estate cells, provisional licences in another permits and stamp system there are able to take that morning, use it for wildlife management. What you that the federal government has the ability to make sure states don't rob that money cause the patient to some guy, like the highway guy in a state, is like, will look at those ass and fish and game they all money. Let's take it make highway, will prevail. You from robbing the fish and game agency of them and using it for non mission. Work is, then he become ineligible for food matching dollars that come from excise taxes on sporting goods equipment, so they got some muscle there. They like If you steal money from your vision, if you, the state, steals money from you, game agency, we're gonna make you regret it by screw you and now giving you other money that you could have got sort incentivize you to leave that money there?

they made a saw, otter licence, and it just goes into the general slush fund court into this gentleman. It doesn't go into funding fish and game, but he's basely like what gives oh well, I guess I stupidly me you're lost like state. Do this all the time I guy see this legislation all the time where it there's a bunch of money over here that we could be using for all sorts of other things. Why don't we get some of that, and I know it you just explain about that. If I haven't read up on Massachusetts. Ah this this particular case Massachusetts, but yeah. You gotta find yourself a state lawmaker that wants wants to write this situation, cause yeah that a bunch of crap. If your fishing dollars don't go to fishing, they go to. You know something like a school lunch program.

you're out their catch and yeah- and I think it comes down to you know- not every state has a separate that a lot of states get their funding through general funds. State coffers through general taxes and everything so would be curious to know how Massachusetts through that you know for all. There could be some complex vying. Issues like Missouri has that license plate tax. It helps foreign while but yeah or you know, look at organ for a pretty good example. Their efficient wildlife enforcement is under the organ state. please I'm so I dunno what pr percentage they get from oregon fish and wildlife or oregon department fish, my life, but in comparison you know in idaho, where I worked there is. It was just straight up license dollars. There was no general fund money, and so what you were referring to before was pr and dj

Pittman Robertson and dingle Johnson, which are those federal excise taxes and usually it's at a three to one for every one dollar the state puts forth. It gets three dollars matching well, but pr dj can be used for law enforcement. Oh yeah, you have to use your license: revenue law enforcement, yup yup, I'm gonna make a promise nurse. If this is true, if this is totally wrong, you won't be hearing this David Lee. Right enough to warrant the discussion were having you will hear it fair. Ah, you went to work for trial unlimited. I did you got involved in salmon salmon steel head primary scope of work,

lay it out for me. What is the scope work like your job when you apply for your job? What was the job? Is here yeah? So the job title was north idaho field coordinator. Basically, it was just in summary policy work, outreach and engagement, work all associated with salmon and steelhead throughout the snake river basin. There's a little bit of of my work plan, my annual work plan that is dedicated to what we refer to as upcountry and protections so part of what the portion of trout unlimited that I work for is the angler conservation program, and so we do all the outreach and engagement in policy stuffy in addition to our other staff, but that's the crux of what we do so: a combination of cold water, fishery.

Is related policy as well as, like I said, public lands protections, and so those up of country protections would be what is affectionately called in the the clear water basin. The great burn, so just an area there, and but then primarily my day in and day out, stuff is focused on salmon steel at throughout the snigger vase. And, of course, now there is much more focus with representative mike. absence, recent release of his proposal, the northwestern transition yeah and we're gonna, be in a moment here, ruby joined by congress in MIKE simpson from idaho. How ah and he's goliath is very ambitious, complicated, costly, but I would argue like extremely important to consider

or and pursue a version of with all necessary tweaks may but like to move to pursue, to pursue a version of the meaning of the snake river. Damn dilemma that we, I would like to see it that we switch to being a yes, Those dams have to go. How do we do it yeah yeah, and why don't we do it as painlessly as possible, and I think that this is I'm sure, there's many more because he's proposing a version of that being like it's gotta happen. we're in the driver's seat. Let's make up, let's make a palpable version for ourselves How did you before

It comes out. How did you like- because you introduced me to this and you you approached us about having this conversation? How how did you guys world's kind of collide on this? So I eat trout, unlimited it's been dedicated to restoring the lower snake, so when we refer to the lower snake, we're talking about a practically one hundred and forty mile stretch from the confluence of the columbia river down

by tri cities, washington up to the lewiston Clarkston area of idaho hundred and forty miles of what is now a damned river for a federally managed hydro dams, create an immense slack water and so way back in the nineties, re shortly after the listing of most of the species within the snake river basin. So we have sockeye that are listed as endangered starting in ninety one and then up through with spring and summer chinook and fall chinook in the in the mid nineties and then a ninety seven kind of was the the end of it with steelhead being listed in the snake, river basin is threatened, and so a way since that

I'm trying to limit? It has been of the opinion, and rightly so, or science based organisation, that the removal of the four lower snake dams would provide the best opportunity for recovery and restoration to, though some on its species throughout the snake river basin. So since ninety seven something that we ve been dedicated to god. It in a variety of ways, You know not only the portion of the organization that I I for we have the water and habitat program that does a lot of the restoration work. People are very familiar with. With with what we do do trout, trout on you know in restoring habitat throughout the upper salmon basin in particular, and so now we have found you know a champion. You know for these fish in representative simpson and I think that the greeley gray part of his proposal

is that its broad, it's not just focused on salmon or steel head, it's in its focused on the entire region. You know looking outside the borders of his. Not only is congressional district but outside the borders of idaho, throughout the northwest and how this can benefit everybody that is involved or could be impacted by, and I think that's the most incredible thing and that's really important the trout, a limited. You know: yeah, restoring and recovering salmon steel, add throughout that basin, but ensure that all the stakeholders come out hole? So you do you guys how many Well, you don't know the entire history, because you are busy doing your job and how often does something like this come along like this proposal, a proposal like this Oh a once in a lifetime zara proposal, yet I mean he is ears. The fact of the matter So I harbour is the lowest snake. Are the low

stamp on the snake river. It was completed. Nineteen sixty two, the furthest up stream dam on the lower snake, is lower granite, which was completed. A nineteen the five through the course of construction and those four lower snake river dams. We saw a very steep declines in salmon populations and steelhead populations that are, it's clearly correlated to the hydro development gate and just have not seen any recovery of those numbers. Despite millions of millions of dollars annually, you know into mitigation efforts throughout the hydro system. Throughout the basin and restoration. We still don't see it recover, and so here here comes a congressman from idaho and that hopefully we'll hear you know he truly is a conservation champion and is pretty remarkable of his accomplishments already. But here he brings forth this proposal. That letter

like I said, encompasses the entire northwest that, quite frankly, could be a once in a lifetime opportunity and its people to look odds hunter forty miles of of river that you know his damned. Well, then we we look what's above those dams and how huge that landscape is. You know humongous humongous watershed. When we start talking about the clear water, the lock saw the cell way the metaphor, the upper salmon in and a lot of it is still in preceding habits. Hers, pristine condition about sixty two percent of the historical. spawning and rearing habitat still intact and the snake river basin or something I had thought of. That's a good point. Yeah and I mean like you're you're you're. Restoring access to cellphone is ready to roll yeah and in an cows heard me,

The comparison in a and it's it's it's my my blind date comparison, you know is that hey man there's this. You know I am scheduled to go on a blind date. You know tonight and the police settings is all set. There's beautiful silver, nice bottle of wine, but my name, my date doesn't show up while I'll come back tomorrow And my date doesn't show up and the same thing as with the habitat there you know and or enable set the table a set is beautiful lake. It's going to be a good date tonight, but my partner doesn't show up you know, and so that's the way you have to look at it in a and when you have that much in tat habitat is beyond reproach. Give it the opportunity, those fish, the opportunity to really maximize it. Yet I am that's where we're looking to do. Much of this is based, when we look at How salmon are doing in this is where people really get confused. Their languages were still efficient forum

may we had a grey or, on you know, just a couple years ago, which we have at our ups and downs, alot of that, fraternity. All that opportunity is based on hatchery production, about Thirty three million salmon and steal had small get released into the snake river basin annually, but when you look at what we refer to as a small to adult returnees, yes, and so that is the simple idea that a hundred smalt out migrate to the ocean and one adult comes back, that's the simplest way to do the math, that's one percent! I write one percent? If you have one of anything, you're not reproducing ray, and so many of our populations are there now throughout the snake river basin. Teetering just tat. You know

spring assumption summer at point nine percent point: the steel had summer seal had a inhabit the snigger basin or just over one percent, and so were not making what we refer to, as per cent, which is the maintenance level god, and so we strive through lots of different venues, whether it's the northwest power planning, council or recently, the columbia basin collaborative there's a bunch of agreement on what the metric should be as a rs have that one met metric from two to six percent with an average of four per cent. As the

The goal right down the think river basin were not meeting that and when you really start to look outside of the basin and look at rivers that are below the the lower snake and don't and fish that don't have to pass for dance. You see much better essay ours will. You know above two per cent, you know upwards of five and almost close to six per cent so lower in in the columbia. You know- and this is this goes back to this other idea of well, it's all ocean conditions. It's all ocean and conditions, look at every other population throughout the range of salmon and steelhead steelhead, while it is partly ocean condition.

ocean conditions are something that we as mankind can no longer control re? Now we can control the hydra system and we have tried to do that. To increase s eight hours, but haven't haven't figured out that that magic bullet, and so here comes representative simpson with this bold, all encompassing plan. You know that takes everything into account. There's a question that comes up all that, I'm like a sought. A bunch of lake wire and hatchery is performing at capacity. like we're not run on the cap, the full capacity of our hatchery, If we did that, then we'd have enough yet, and so in that comes back to this idea that thirty three million small tis and enough right and that we need more but hatchery fish, underperform wildly

right now as it is so they have even lower essay hours than what we see in wild never mind that the the figure that is used to evaluate the productivity of the hatcheries is the adult returns. That is what The funding mixing the mechanism for most of the hatteras throughout the the basin, which is practically seventeen or so it through, come through lower snake comp, which is funded partially through bonneville power, the main electric in an entity that operates the whole hydra system. But adult returns, are how they are evaluated and not once of they met their adult return goals. So just by increasing more smarts you it's likely because of the usa hours because of the impact of a hydra system. It's not gonna improve

you know, and it doesn't just by producing more hatchery fish, doesn't get us to recovery or restoration, and we get spend a lot of money on atrophy yeah yeah, I mean it's a annually lower snake comp in the snake river basin that is funded at thirty one million dollars annually and ashes flush and fish down the system. You know and hope that there's going to be opportunity- and you just want to be there when they're doing that, because the bull, trout, fishing and believable catch these bowls that are just there spewing salmon, small and steelhead small out when you, when you pick them It's amazing, expensive, belgian yeah, I was sorry to guy in a bar and catch can one time and he was working at a hatchery, coho, hatchery and cohoes.

Stay in the in the natal spawning stream an extra year right so when they go out they're pretty big, like they spend a lot longer in the river. So when you have Co, air trini to rear the cohoes lot longer than some other salmons that that that don't need as much time in ink sort of like in stream incubation. He said, they'd go out and and let some of the release some of these hatchery releases into the ocean and his humpbacks humpback whales would get onto that. You said you'd see that mouth come up. You know he'd be like well, there goes the quarter million dollars with yeah a quarter million dollars with the.

So we're gonna jump over and talk now and inaction. Introduction you talk not congressmen MIKE simpson. Tomato Gay without much further do we are joined by congressmen, MIKE simpson from idaho christmas, if the gue lay offers little bit about some of the summit, issues. You been involved in your career, that our pertinent hunters and anglers and in outdoors people, people some some of the areas in which you ve played and influence the though the world we live in share. you have to remember that in idaho, most people Lugar because they love or outdoors they love our public lands. They love to fish and hunt and and recreate and in our public lands. So I've been very active, trying to maintain those totally clans whether it was through the button voter initiative, the green in the wilderness for the boulder. I thought it had been.

Wilderness study area for years- and I came collusion- somebody did make a determination what was going to be wilderness and what was gonna be released for multiple use. So we pass that bill. It took about fifteen years to get it done, but we got that down and then now one of the things I think I'm proudest of is the great merit outdoors act that passed just last year or year for last, I guess, sir, and that you know that deals with land water conservation fund fully funding it. That also maintains access, and that was one of the What parts of this the access for hunters and anglers in and those types thinks you can love the pub plans, but if we can have access to it have not made much saw what I think, was one of the strongest environmental businesses, pry classes, wilderness access, actively involved in these issues for a number of years, both relative, idaho and other nations nation

and now you're setting you're setting your sites on bomb helpless through making a plan. and about what we're gonna do about somebody. Dams we have on the major salmon rivers in the west op. I want to get too I want you to look at the history for people first, but can you in caps away what year, what your paper, Seeing how you became interested in this subject. Sure This has been a debate has been going on for twenty five or thirty years in the pacific northwest yours. I dont salmon runs declined substantially back there on the path to extinction. If we don't do anything else, The other issue is the body part administration and the fact that that one, and they were the lowest cost producer of energy in the pacific northwest, and so consequently, all your rural, electrics and others used bonneville power power because it was the cheapest. They could get there no longer there

thus in the pacific northwest. So on the one hand I make bonneville power sustainable for the future of competitive for the future in one of the one of the things that has to be done is to end the salmon wars, the endless litigation that. that occurs about salmon recovery in the pacific northwest air to do that. Return? Idaho salmon runs surrounding endangered list, almost every fish biologist that I've talked to says you're going to have to remove the lower snake river dams self We put out a concept that does that. But of course, what you say: you're gonna worry, you're, gonna retired. those damsel remove those dams, then Look at one of the value of dams and what is that due to the stakeholders, and how do you compensate the stakeholders or There are in a better position than they were before, so you could do that. You agree if you could make stakeholders whole again if you can remove the dams restore the salmon and the losses and if you can make me be a competitive, that's a huge task.

Is something that we must work on working on for about three years and we ve got about three hundred beatings may be as many as five hundred meetings with different constituency groups. the issues that surround that. That's that's what we ve been doing over the last three years. We released concept in love in february, so the people to talk about it. As I said, this is a discussion. It has to happen and I'm glad we started it now. Let's see where it would you mind, help help. Listeners understand why the dams were put in place. it's where these things, I think we're now, there's such it all, widely held predominant viewpoint, it seems that you know it widespread acknowledgement that their very problematic, but they were built. Yes, why were they built and in what was the conversation about what was the debate when they were being

built how like how people and people anticipate the ito than the havoc that will be wrought by constructing the day well. You know it's interesting. If you go back to the ice harbor dam, which is the first one that you reach after you, leave the colombian head up snake river, the first of the four that was authorized in may exceed forty five, the article. which dares requested funding for it every year in their budget requests, congress refused to fund it, and if you read this many of the chairman of the appropriations committee when he was asked why they didn't put funding for the ice harbour damn he said, because building this damned would be the eventual extinction of a species that something that they couldn't copper. try. It was no unclear back then, or at least suspected that that would be would be a problem. But then, two years later, to democratic centres, once more than one from from my washington swifter

in dollars into an appropriation conference report started: eyesore harbour that started the dominance of the other four dams. So it's bennett. It's been a challenge from the start with knowing what the consequences were, but we've wasted on up our hands and said: hey. We replace these fish with hatchery fish and stuff and Now we find out the hatchery fish aren't the same as wild salmon and turning the salmon is something that it is important to me. I think it's important idle and when I look at the impact that stands out, they were built for power. That was the reason these are, there's not flood control dams. These are just run of the river dams and they pay power. They also have the benefit of being able to take barging from louis tonight. How all the way down to portland mostly did try cities within the portland through the columbia, river dams. Those are to benefit the stamps that today, tap. But when you look at the power production now there are other ways you produce power. Someone told me

Once again, I agree with is that you know everything we do on the colombian lower snake wherever we can do differently. If we choose to do it, that's our choice. Salmon don't have an option to actually near river right now. They dont have a river the dams. In fact, it's almost a misnomer to call it the lower snake river, because there, Where is really just a pool, a series of points behind these damn slap water pools which the salmon because of the increased water temperature. the velocity of the water coming down? Doesn't flushed him down to the river. It takes about three times as long for first molt to get to the ocean as it used to that puts him danger, predators and other other factors that affect them. That's my fishermen, we'll just we'll tell you the only way you can restore the salmon is too is to remove these dance, they generally measure the success of the salmon run or the health of one is called the sars too small to adult ratio. It needs to be

would preferably be between four and six anything I have two or as a sustainable run, and if you look at the salmon that come up the columbia river had passed, the first three dams then go ended. The John day drainage don't know much about three point: five, that's a healthy run. What's it passed the fourth dam and go into the Acta drainage? but two point four, which is still healthy and sustainable, but once The idaho salmon go over those next four dams their sars rate is about point eight and that's a path to extinction and something we have not been able to change over the years with everything we do. What other industry like when you mentioned that the dams are put in place? primarily for electricity, meaning if it wasn't, The energy conversation, it probably wouldn't have become a conversation, but then the dams get put place in it, wise up. Having sort of you know inadvertent or subsidy.

Effects on things, meaning I'm I'm guessing irrigation, probably the thing yeah barge traffic. How many industries You know I be an exhaustive list, but like what? What all industry We need to make an adjustment or be have their their concerns addressed in order begin dealing with this problem. you ever look beyond power, but this other ways in which communities have grown up around the waters edge in Only then will we know all the ways in which it could impact industry and people if we were to took to pull this feed off the other. There are a number of industries we ve tried to look at all. Like I say, that's why we ve had the three to five hundred meetings that we had with different interest groups and stakeholders about the impact of removing those dams. You know you look at the lower snake wherever they may have theirs marinas and other types of recreational outfits

that operate in in those waters. The city of lewiston has a port there. The port is about. I dunno it's about a one point: nine billion dollar annual budget and employs several people, and so I mean that's important industry. listen, but it's mostly the grain producers in the polisario around lewiston that that barge their grain down the river, and it is the cheapest way to transport the strasbourg a grain they can do cheaper than you can on trucks by rail, so you'd have to combination for all of these individuals. What we're trying to do is what can loosen be in the future. How can we make them whole again and we we we thought of ideas, but but mostly it's gonna be up to them their future and really the question I asked people is: we need to be looking down the road about what we watched pacific northwest, to look like in twenty five or fifty years, because the decisions we make today,

they are going to make those determinations. Do we care about salmon? Do we care if they come back now? I will tell you that if you talked to a lot of washington, grain farmers and others who are affected by this by this, these dam, this dam removal, because they pump out of the snake river irrigate deals in washington and self worth. I can understand why you really care about idaho sam then affect them their sounder back in healthy numbers is in idaho. This pay the cost- and I said this member times the more I look at The more I look at the fact that idaho is paying is paying all the costs of these dams in washington and we're not getting much benefit. Is the lower costs transportation, which we can replace Do it so that we can actually get it down the river down to the tri. Cities are important, cheaper than they you on barges today, if we to look at a different way of doing it? We get about April. The power that produce to those dams comes. I do not often

we flash for hundred and seven thousand acres you to water down the year s down the river every year to Eric air to flush salmon pass these four dams and the one thing is not doing is recovering salmon. That's problem, that's four hundred and eighty seven thousand acre of water does not avail. I do hope, either recharge or aquifer or additional asian or other things that we just blush down the river. How do you for the fact that there still dams below the dams, you know A vision in my minor best case scenario would be that this endeavour successful the ultimately we get the the public support we need and we get the money. We need to begin this very ambitious project of dismantling these things and restoring salmon runs like I'd, love to see it, but when I hear this first into pass, my mind is what about the fact that you so whole bunch of em below there, unless this sets a template or creates a path for for people to comprehend.

Removing more dams. How does it? How can I fix anything when you still have the columbia right, yeah, a lot of people, me. It isn't a slippery slope, remove more dabs what we With this proposal and the way you end, the lawsuits and the endless litigation goes on, as you realize, license all the remaining dams for the period of thirty five to fifty years, depending on when the license comes due automatically realising them, because, So the lawsuits occur around damson, danbury licensing and that type of thing you would really with their relations them? They would be exempt from the endangered species, act, clean water act and environment, national environmental policy at and that takes away almost all of the losses. In fact, most environmental groups that are some of the proponents of the of the lawsuits and have been in the past have said, Ok, we can live with that as long as we get rid of these these four dams. But if you the numbers, as I said earlier, the small coming up the river, the first four dance on the columbia river,

Yes, they have an impact on salmon, but they dont endanger them I still have a healthy sars rape once they pass those four dams, eight dams is just too many. That's why the numbers fall through the floor on the snake river or the the idaho salmon runs. No that's, it is interesting to me that the point you just made a bow trying to sort of aligning you mentioned, have in all these different stakeholders and in seat at the table. It's interesting me that, as a way to alleviate concerns that the slippery slope concerns that you're willing to strike a deal like that, and not only that, but that that yours, environmental groups at what would be comfortable with an arrangement like that they be recoverable. The idea tabling conversations about colombia, dams in order to me, a deal to do this ambitious plan on the on the snake. Like that, that's all that gathers widespread com

Yeah there is most of the environmental committee that we ve been working with him. I could say the ones that are generally behind the lawsuit you have been in the past, but the event group, sad state war. Again, the indian tribes have all said the others is ok. Now I will have to tell you there. A number of what I call it, laughed environmental groups surf and washed in Oregon who come out today there are posted, they want to return salmon. They want to dance diameter posted this proposal because they don't want about their right to sue. Well, now much tells you game plan is for the future gonna, be lawsuit after lawsuit. After lawson I wish we were spent more money and restore salmon runs and less money. According to the true, even though I understand that a tourist get still happy, personally, have you did you grow up as a salmon, fishermen and angler? I didn't I was never a fisherman, my brother, my brother,

sufficient when he was a fly? Freshmen used tight? the flies you know and kick over rocks to see what they were eating and then he'd. Take me outside man there's so many fish here. My arm got sore and I'd go fishing with him and, of course, there's not a bite. So I decided that I couldn't trust him, but I was there. I was never the fishermen, I love to eat him. He'll have to catch your eye age, and that you can't get away from partisanship on something like this meaning a as I'm sure you know better? Nobody on the planet some people are gonna go and there when I look at it like it is a particular party in support of it. If that's the case, where in two? If someone, is behind it, we're gonna resist it. Do you find that what I'm too environmental issue like this you know like fish,

it has a industry overlay to it. Do you find that partisanship gets worse that its? That is alleviated what do you encounter when you workin on this? You know why, I find that the partnership with environmental issues is not as strong as it is with some other things, other issues, the one challenge it this is that it's gonna cost about. three and a half billion dollars. What we estimator to make the stakeholders whole again to replace the power, do the other things as a value of the dance were the first people to recognise the idea in these dance out has been, has been considered for by other groups, and it's always just either take the dams outer, don't take the dams out and where the first people actually put a value on those dams and recognise that they do have value, and you could happen. I said I think that's, what's got so people that are at I remove all removal concerned is that we ve actually

value on their saying? Ok, how do we fight this? This must be a serious consideration and I've had a lot of people. suggest that I would say that there are not deaf However, we disposed of what were the concept we put out there, but I can't to the realisation that you know we can either plan our own future, develop our own future or it can be planned for us, and it would be If we, if we did it ourselves, but I find the partisanship Qaeda yeah republicans democrats have a difference of opinion on how best to to manage our public lands in their type stuff. When you look back at the border, wiper Well in this area that I did in the end it passed without descending about vat, republican or democratic, sending voted both house in the south when we did the great american outdoors act it passed by pot with by part of sport,

so when we get right down to it, I think republic Democrats want the same thing. We have different opinions about how to get there. Sometimes but but I I. I'm not worried about partisanship, really do feel that the proposal that you worked dynamo. We'll will tell people how to find the details of the proposal. Do you feel the propose you worked on has turned some opinions. or have you do, you feel that it winds up being is that the battle line is pretty much the same still or have some people come and set? All of this, I can it on board with previous previous proposals. Not for me, where are you now? The response we're getting from the public is about what expected one we released and is the reason we release to this concept, not a written piece of legislation when you write these that we said bill here. It slice.

I'm ready to go with this? You have done all the thought everything We released as a concept so that people would have time to consider it put heather input into I'm sure there are things that we have not thought about. that the others will think about for us, and there are questions that need to be answered that some people have raised that's. Why it's out there as a concept for this public debate that that is going on now. So I I, as I said I, I think the reaction is kind of about what we expected. We knew that there would be number of people that it would be an associations and organizations that would say hell. No we're never gonna believe never gonna were remove those stamps. I understand that seventy Our position twenty five years ago that the position I was here reality. You know at twenty five years, but you recently articles when I was speaker of the house- and I know I said damage

who is not an option. I said we ought to try everything else to restore salmon, for we ever consider that well in the twenty five year says that we tried everything else and if somebody has an idea of how you can restore sam without moving most ass, I love to hear it, but the problem is: we ve tried everything so far, unless I said every fish biologists- and I talk to says, you're gonna- have to remove those dance if you want to restore idaho salmon rats, so we knew there would be that reaction from the hell, no, never sort of group, but I'm not critical of damage. I understand whether coming from but there are a lot of people who are saying to me. This is interesting. Maybe we ought to step back, put pitchforks down and tough. about this and consider the options here, because As I said, I'd just talk to group the other day who arrive, who I thought would have been pretty firmly against it. They still maybe I bet they're starting to say you know. Maybe we ought to plan our own futurist and have someone else planned for it and when I say that,

people say? I'm trying to threaten people at a judge could remove these gaps. That's not true. Judge cannot remove these dance only congress to do that, but I judge can make it so damned expensive to give these dams that you just have no option but but they could the order drawdowns your additional spills in that kind of stuff to yours, so judge ordered the forty thousand acre feet of additional watered. We spilled over the dams to help salmon recover help recover shadow, but it did cost forty million dollars. Bp ate her. To do that. Have lost power generation amused ratepayers ended up paying that forty million dollars, so As I said, that's another aspect of this whole proposal is not just salmon dams source of the gpa trying to kid. power rates, lower the pacific northwest that have been growing over the years, and that and, as I said, bonneville power of power is no longer the low cost hour in the in the pacific northwest any more. So we've got to do something to make them come.

In the future, let's talk for a minute about the hell, no, never perspective. If that doesn't demonstrate my biased, what, if I view someone saying if you someone like like yourself use, you know: you're, not a salmon fishermen guy but year recognising the importance of sam, as a as a wild creature that were, blast to have on the landscape right it able it belongs to a system that greater than any individual. it has integrity. We want to uphold the integrity like I've. U, that is that that to me still miasm largely altruistic viewpoint like you looking to future generations. If you talk about the hell, no, never audience. Is there an argument among them that goes beyond anything that might be self serving in all

If there's concern and as I said in our video would release that, I said you know, I can promise you certainly remove. These days will bring back salmon its complex biological Mr era, when I was a damn, stood there also come into my office with a serious infection in, I could push I have some antibiotics for them. I couldn't promise them it at work. It would work. Ninety nine point, nine, nine percent of the time a promise. Somebody it's gonna work is to biological system. People react differently, same thing is true of salmon, but is there ass chance. We ve got of recovering salmon and I think the only chance we gotta recovering these four for salmon. but I always get a kick out of their people who say to me I don't think we should remove these dams. guaranteed the salmon would come back and I want salmon back as much as anybody else does. They really mean, as I want someone to come back, but I don't want to have to change anything that workers currently doing

we to have those two things I don't think you're going to get salmon back and I think in in twenty to to what fish biologist tell me is within probably twenty years, that's five likes lifecycles or for lifecycles of salmon that that these special be extinct, and you mentioned that the reason for, as I said, You know some people want him come back cause they want to be able to fish and etc, etc. I want him back because they are an essential part of our of our economy, an essential part of nature. There are over three hundred to speed the three hundred species of animal some plants depend on the nutrition salmon, bring back up from the ocean been studies done that if you look at a stream where salmon generally populate

first, is one where there is no salmon in trees actually go three times faster in the in the drainage that has the salmon just because of the nutrients that they bring back. Something like ninety, percent of the hair of a year of a bear in these regions. Have salmon dna, so there an employer, and I can't species for the pacific northwest idle, be the generation said yeah, we saw blown away. We didn't do anything to try and stop it. You may only congress can remove the dams. Why is that what what what is the? What is the sort of like the legal, the legal framework that makes that true, where their day our central damsel, who put in with federal legislation solar, take federal legislation too, were to remove them? That's my understanding of the law on, I think, there's probably true but like I said a judge, him can make it so damned expensive decay.

He could order drawdowns where you would actually driver the the reservoirs down to almost zero, which means there wouldn't be any margie. Or anything else like that oregon order edition, spills. Guess where that water ultimately comes from the compromise now because all the water in the snow covered brains out only idaho drain agents and so in, and I do hope, the these the habitat that we're talking about it. I know in such a lighter is the high altitude habitat and proper, we the best and cleanest the water and coldest water in the in the entire pacific northwest for salmon habitat. So it is vital that we restore at the store these salmon to this habitat and especially in the age of warming, rivers because of global global warming and other types of things. It's important that we maintain this cold high altitude.

It, the water habitat that we have an idaho congressman. We have a. We. We've talked a little about the argument for removing the dams You talked about some of the resistance of doing it and what it might take to ease that resistance. What about just that, though, the the physical process let let's say one hundred percent of americans and one hundred percent of via the car where's, the. U S, congress is set at all said. Yes, let's go. What are we to? What are we looking at? I mean I reach our boat decades. work. Now, Louise the like of ability to bomb or does comes over, and it's done right. It is a good thing and it needs to happen here. The eyes much more complicated nerve proposal. The damaged on actually come out of twenty thirty, because you at night-

you're sure now you have to have the power replacement employee. I shall have the alternative transportation in place, but then you have to do dredging behind these that's gonna cost you a billion or so dollars to remove the settlement that has accumulated behind these dance. You cause you don't want to one or two just washed down the river. So how to remove the sediment, and then we dont physically remove the cement part of the other. What you do. Is you move the earth in burma around the edge to create the natural river flow that existed before so that all that it stays there yeah yeah your support The cement part stays there. It's it's. The earthen burma sector that attach on the sides that you'd remove and then their Paul river could slow around that, and you know I told people were listen thirty years of salmon are back. This has worked. You could actually replaced hers and berms if you need to

just gotta stop start thinking outside of the traditional ideas that had in the past that haven't worked and say, that's, let's look down the road but see how we can make this work and must try something different. Don't I know you can't be a slave, the polling but ammonia, constituents what per se? Your constituents think that that's gonna happen You know we haven't done it fully on this, so I can give you an exact answer, The only answer I would have is from the contact I had with people. As I said, a lot of people are saying interesting? We ought to consider this. Other people say I admire, if you take it on the challenge and it's a discussion, it's gotta be had, but I'm not sure I'm in favor of dam removal and other people who just said hell. No, so it it's a. slow process of giving people a chance to consider this and and think about the options and what the what we might be able

Do everyone platter on future and I think overtime, over the next few months people. I a you, really sit down and talk to talk about it or you'll, see more people coming around to the possibilities it I've. I've been doing meetings all over my district denied her. We will start doing some more round the civic northwestern north, idaho in washington, in order and also from the agricultural perspective congressmen is the lack of embrace for damn removal based on the ship primarily the use of the of the barge system. removing grain or is it due to add, probably have a realistic increase in cost of pumping water out of the snake for agriculture, purposes. It comes in several aspects, I think so.

Largest opposition is from the green group perspective because they ship. Ninety five million bushels of grain down the river every year and they're they're afraid that if you added ten or fifteen cents to two bushel in transportation, costs that put him out of business that might well, I think we can do it and they can actually ship per farmer at a cheaper cars to doing it. My barging, if we give them the resources to develop this planet come up with an idea, might not be the right idea, but there the experts in trying to get the grain to try cities in order. So We have the resources to come up with a plan. I been interested, though the great farmers in southern idaho in my district that actually don't use the barge yesterday, the tracker to dry cities or salt lake right now and the only thing this plan would do. them is made more water available for southern idaho when we start fashion for her name, a thousand acres of water down the river. We got

real water quality issues in the snake over in the midst sneak up my to involve the software and- and this would help improve that water quality and quantity by by stopping the flashing and I've told these people listen that flashes go away, one way or another scandal, because salmon go extinct and it's no longer necessary for flush. Fresh water for salmon go away because the dams aren't there say don't need fresh water, too, were to flush smaller over the damn so its matter of looking down there, and then I think there is just a nap all sort of resistance to say how stupid, as this to take up this infrastructure that that we built over the years and start your own. Why would you want to do that?

and I understand that cause- that's as I said you know a number of years ago, I probably would have been in that same camp, but you don't look down the future and we don't do this for us. We do this for future generations both, people that care about the environment and salmon, and also agricultural producers, trade these lawsuits that their facing every single day and that power companies are facing every single day I try to end the spiralling costs of the power that they have enough If you talk to the washington area growers they powerful. water! Out of these reservoirs behind these dams. And so consequently, restoring a natural river means that it would they would have to who alter their their irrigation thompson. Are they draw water out and probably deepen their wealth and a few things we ve got some I ended this proposal for them to help do it. They said it would protect six hundred and fifty million dollars, which was seven hundred and fifty

million dollars under the proposal so- Try to address all these concerns that people have an, but Believe me. I understand the concerns congressman. I think that as this rolled out, you know that a price bat tag. Thirty three point: five million and I think there is a little bit of a stick, her shock, but billion, be I with a billion yeah billion, and so as it is, ruled out living on the police. As I do, I've seen definitely both sides on people S, support, support for various reasons, but I have been very interested in the fact that the proposal is it just about salmon. It isn't just about conservation. You took this step to include. Industry in almost every community into consideration- and I think that's a pretty striking aspect of the proposal and and so could to you for that,

Having no three hundred meetings. Do you get the sense that that, with those three hundred meters is there a lot of the if you will, but the leaks in the damn were were plug and these are small hurdles that you have to jump now. Add the additional five two hundred bringing you totalled, the five hundred reigneth. Yet you d think we're getting there as far's by in in the proposal as broad as it is. Well, I I appreciate your comments and and like I say, we tried to take into consideration all the impacts that we could think of, and that's why we talked to so many stakeholders, because there were things that we probably had wouldn't have thought of. Had we not talked to a lot of these different individuals, tough, and so I wouldn't say that that we put all the links for sure there's still so. After that we need to talk to, but I say the conversation is going well.

I've actually talk to two green producers in the pollution, actual farmers? And they said when you know this is kind of an interesting idea. Tat we should be agreed down the river. Do we really need a damsel stuff but as an association are opposed to the war, in writing. Growers, the idaho gray growers, the already great girls all stick together and support one another, so it will be It will be hard to bring them on board. What I'm trying to do is released Some of their fears that were here, I've got a history that I built up over the years of being leading supportive agriculture in in congress, one of the leading supporters of agriculture in congress, whether it was making sure that that they had the resources to do what was necessary and cattlemen. We delisted wolves and a few things like that for for the cattlemen and sheep industry, kept the dubois a sheep station open made sure that white potatoes

being from idaho potatoes are important, were put back on the whip program and in school lunch program and things like that and making sure they had the resources for their their the research and so forth in the wheat industry and so forth. I've got lots of awards from the agricultural industry and, if I thought for a second that this would harm agriculture in the long run, I'd drop it in a heartbeat. This will not harm app, I think it will place them in a better position in the future, but that takes time to come around you, and I understand that. That's why I have, brought out and ask anybody to jump on board and support this. As just said, listen, let's all put down the pitchforks, and let's have this discussion. Have we what we want the pacific northwest to look like in forty or fifty years congressman would you like to directly address the idea that this is? in of legumes, in the clean water, acting essay on the law colombia, dams, would

also allow the building of of new infrastructure that word like go against fraud. The idea of modernizing like cleaner, green energy, a lot of people see. This is like. Oh, my god, we're gonna suspend these two that we use to fight back, environmental policy as like a scapegoat type, a tool, a trade off. It is trade off some degree. the reality is. All the lawsuit sid occur occur. I virtually all of them occur around the clean water act. The endangered species act. Every time a dam comes up to read, license I'll, give you an example I hope our healthcare healthcare complex and trying to relay relations those damn. Since I was a the speaker of the house- and I know that was twenty five years ago, and they

trying to realise its they spend as much money or effect they spent three times as much money relations. those stamps as it did the builder tabs and they still have licences warm. Yet that's what happening with all the dams in the pacific northwest. What we ve created is a cottage. Industry with the age of funds as equal access to justice, funds that are paid for by congress happens is a firm come up in an environmental group or whatever can come file, lawsuit and if you were in part or in whole, your lot, your fees could be paid for, and you ask money on these things, and it is a cottage industry that's going on, and so I'm I'm not too happy about that. But I think that spending, the the your species act and the clean water act and the need for process

is vitally important to ending these lawsuits, and it doesn't mean you can go out and do additional things. It just means the stamps or relations to operate as they currently are, as they currently operate and stuff this little bit of looking into a crystal ball type question here: ok, I have a lot of respect and admiral. And for the way you have your framing it up that it did you not starting with legislation you, starting with a proposal you're bringing people your inviting, monsieur inviting critique you try to initiate a discussion. Do you feel that in the end in terms of your involvement here. Then in the end, that's your goal, or do you think that this specific proposal could actually be, but a blue? print for action that we take or is it to you? Is it enough just to start the conversation, trusting that in

and twenty thirty years the conversation advances enough or do you think we could be, like you add a moment right like at a moment in time or we're gonna go. That's a good question. I think that this is a blueprint which. could start the process of reform. We had our shared removing dams and changing the economy and the transitioning of the pacific northwest for the future, whether would be the specific proposal were not. I don't know, but I think this could be the the blueprint for weren't a unique time in history We don't have that long to make a decision on how we're gonna recover salmon and whether we can do this and the pacific north. This delegation is actually in a pretty powerful position when you consider chairman, Send a finance committee is wrong. Widened from my from oregon padding murray information. Leadership might create

well from idaho- is the member on the Senate finance committee. We gas, important people, I get worse rogers from Washington who was not supportive of dam removal, but is a chair as the ranking member on the energy and commerce committee in the house. I wanted to see, members on the appropriations committee. So when you. Look at how the delegation is in enough they beat pete As chairman of the infrastructure transportation committee in the house, when a pretty powerful position It's also helpful, frankly, that divide administrations looking at an infrastructure package as I might, the financing for this in place before we started doing the legislation.

Way too many times where congress passes legislation of promises, financing for things, and then that never happens? I would like to put the the financing in place if we could do it to this infrastructure package that the Biden administration is looking at and put it in a trust fund until we the legislation passed at that we could do this. I saw it It is a long process. Its cumbersome process- and I will tell you right in the legislation- is gonna be for lack of a better. the nightmare, because it in full? so many different aspects of of the economy and the environment of the pacific northwest so it? But I think it I and I've told people. I honestly believe that in twenty twenty five years, those damn sure got whether because of this or for some other reason I mean those dams will be gone. The question is: what will be done in time say the salmon or not.

I know I guess I've gotta go. Do I appreciate your time anything like to add in down at the end here. Did that I didn't ask you, but you're you're dying to say I found we told you more than I know all again. I appreciate taking the time and I'm sure people love to hear it. It's a it in all aspects of this debate. I've been exposed to for my entire life, it's exciting to see it getting the attention that is getting now best. Luck. I appreciate the efforts that your put an end to try to hear people out on this and in a way that, maybe is not quite as that. monos as other efforts. You know start this conversation about this very important. So congressmen MIKE simpson meidel. Thank you very much you stay. I appreciate very much.

I feel less ended, show their yeah great guest gesture. You come back on for more investor updates yap. Hopefully we can just start doing a fishing adventures, oh like you want to. After you get the boat, oh can we do that? Phil yeah? I already made a just a separate jingle for when he gets the boat or you already died, did yeah. Okay, I hear there's one I am the snake right snake, maybe I'll come over there and yeah, it should be out so it'll help. Your trout know that my end chester, the investor just cause- you got a wallet boat when it could just morph yeah money, inaction, your investment, inaction, investing in off so glad because I was already starting to miss you like get the boat and you were to come into the studio. If anymore, I was just the angler that is sound No, you re investing my time in catching wild

You probably forgot that you did this to. You asked me to make a jingo. It's that continuing wall. I adventures of chester, the investor. I ask, as you did On the pike I have a tentative hold honest leaves, but right now, chester for a couple of days in April and April. First, we can meet the criteria, ventures of chester, the wall, no reservations or limits on while or small mouth, where you're going Let's go now he's going to help salmon and that's it. A small leader had always to do you don't like do you know I like an out of the lake catch him, You thought long and hard somebody's gotta. That is. One of these are risa laugh, but was one people would be like are due to go? She prayed marginal Well, it's album. The rancher am like. I bet you obey. If you into the ranch

Said me. My bodies here want to help. We want to help. What can we do? I bet you about fiftieth on his list, of course, but it is a paradox if you like events in all five miles, if we really want to know now, will be helpful those prairie dogs. I got this chemic. The spanish around four out of my border wheeler, and I did DR weir each whole it above drops of blood. I rode genocide in their story about that is worth. Documents base our body, the

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